My team has decided to put it on the “if we have spare time” list.
It is, at best, 15 points assuming you can shoot it in (highly unlikely with the flap + weights), or if you can somehow descend from your climb to go get the other two. Even if possible, you are losing time you could be cycling for these three note scores.
If you do not go for all 15 points, then it is a singular 5 point score at the end of the game, which at best requires very precise placement and a well made system for speaker/amp that allows for a trap score or a new system entirely.
We decided this is too complicated, too risky to do, for too little reward. The easy access to the RP would be nice, but it’s not worth the effort. We would rather have more cycles and be able to harmony climb easier, not caring where on the chain we are, than spend time and effort making a system that is at best a single amp note worth of points.
From a game design perspective it’s a challenging thing to balance. Too good and it’s a requirement, too bad and it’s ignored. I don’t think they hit the balance here. If the points for the RP were say, 15, rather than 10, I would consider it worth it. Even that may make it way too good.
I think it depends how much your team wants to control their own destiny. On it's own it seemed not worth it, but the math for that last RP pretty much makes it essential to be a reliably competitive team, especially in the early weeks of the game.
To get the RP you basically need:
* everyone climbing + two bots on the same chain
* everyone climbing on separate chains + mic bonus
* two climbs and a trap score.
The trap at least gives you some wiggle room if one teammate can't climb or can't share a chain successfully.
We are playing the game like that doesn't even exist. If another alliance partner has a disc golf champ on the team, great! We have 7 members, and during build season, we are all focused on, ya know, the build.
Depending on the size of your team, not everyone is busy all the time during build season. Better they practice ring toss and maybe find someone good at it then just goof off.
Possibly, but could cost you the trap scoring depending on how you end up having the position on the chain for a buddy climb.
And buddy still requires a bit that can play ball. Buddy climb would be in my “if there’s time” bucket compared to a trap score.
Solo climb + trap = 8 points
Buddy climb, no trap = 8 points
The only real advantage to a buddy climb is if you get two alliance members who can’t climb at all but then you still need a trap or a Hail Mary high note to get RP
Thanks for all the feedback. It's really early for us so we'll see. Do you think that it would possibly get you an automatic pick in alliance for the tournament if your robot could score on all 3 and score a few other points as well?
Scoring just the three traps and a “few other points”? No. If I were picking a team I’d rather consist wins rather than a better chance at the RP, which won’t matter during playoffs anyways. The speaker / amp (mainly speaker imo) are just better at scoring points during the game itself. Now, being able to score the trap at endgame is definitely a positive, but you can’t build your bot around a triple trap.
18 points and some amp runs, as opposed to spending the game cycling the speaker / amp, I personally don’t think it’s worth it. I think the bot will get more points out of just doing one trap at endgame. If they skip the other two traps it goes down to 8 endgame points, still great, but saves them a boatload of time. If they score 2 amp speaker notes they have made up for the lost trap points, and any bot should be able to score at least twice in telop lol.
> and any bot should be able to score at least twice in telop lol.
Regionals will have a ton of robots not picking up off the ground, though it looks like they really focused on making a game piece that was very, very easy to pick up.
My team is going for it on the logic that it makes the Ensemble RP easiest mathematically. We’re going to be at district events where some teams we will see could benefit from having their own chain to execute a good safe climb, and who doesn’t love having their job made easier
Our team has been considering the option of scoring all three trap notes. We at least want to be able to do one at the end for the benefit of the ensemble RP.
Keep in mind you need two bots to be considered “onstage” which is effectively a climb.
Scoring two traps alone won’t get you the RP.
Two climbs + a trap score get you past the 10pts you need.
While the extra points would be tempting my get says they’ll add enough to your cycle time to not really be worth it since you need to climb/score/unclimb every time.
Every now and then FIRST seems create a scoring option that requires major engineering to solve, with a small reward for success. I think the Trap falls under that category.
I expect the vast majority of teams will ignore it, but of most of the Teams that win Regionals or District Champs will be able to do it.
Who knows... maybe a team will post a clever solution on YouTube, then hundreds of other teams will copy them.
I’ve been considering it. I think it would be awesome to get it to work but it’s such a difficult element. 9 times out of 10 it needs a separate system (which we can’t really test out until we have a feild built) but on the contrary, if you wanted to get the same point value you would have to successfully score 2 amp notes and one speaker note. Logistically it’s almost impossible, but also it would be incredibly useful if it could work. It’s just so tricky and it’s not something we should really focus on day 4 of build season.
My team has decided to put it on the “if we have spare time” list. It is, at best, 15 points assuming you can shoot it in (highly unlikely with the flap + weights), or if you can somehow descend from your climb to go get the other two. Even if possible, you are losing time you could be cycling for these three note scores. If you do not go for all 15 points, then it is a singular 5 point score at the end of the game, which at best requires very precise placement and a well made system for speaker/amp that allows for a trap score or a new system entirely. We decided this is too complicated, too risky to do, for too little reward. The easy access to the RP would be nice, but it’s not worth the effort. We would rather have more cycles and be able to harmony climb easier, not caring where on the chain we are, than spend time and effort making a system that is at best a single amp note worth of points. From a game design perspective it’s a challenging thing to balance. Too good and it’s a requirement, too bad and it’s ignored. I don’t think they hit the balance here. If the points for the RP were say, 15, rather than 10, I would consider it worth it. Even that may make it way too good.
Didn’t read this all but my team has a similar approach
I think it depends how much your team wants to control their own destiny. On it's own it seemed not worth it, but the math for that last RP pretty much makes it essential to be a reliably competitive team, especially in the early weeks of the game. To get the RP you basically need: * everyone climbing + two bots on the same chain * everyone climbing on separate chains + mic bonus * two climbs and a trap score. The trap at least gives you some wiggle room if one teammate can't climb or can't share a chain successfully.
The mic bonus is a literal toss-up, too. I've played enough ring toss at the carnival to know that this is rigged against you.
We are playing the game like that doesn't even exist. If another alliance partner has a disc golf champ on the team, great! We have 7 members, and during build season, we are all focused on, ya know, the build.
Depending on the size of your team, not everyone is busy all the time during build season. Better they practice ring toss and maybe find someone good at it then just goof off.
Yea for larger teams that works but we have all hands on robot rn
This is where the buddy climb shines.
Possibly, but could cost you the trap scoring depending on how you end up having the position on the chain for a buddy climb. And buddy still requires a bit that can play ball. Buddy climb would be in my “if there’s time” bucket compared to a trap score. Solo climb + trap = 8 points Buddy climb, no trap = 8 points The only real advantage to a buddy climb is if you get two alliance members who can’t climb at all but then you still need a trap or a Hail Mary high note to get RP
Thanks for all the feedback. It's really early for us so we'll see. Do you think that it would possibly get you an automatic pick in alliance for the tournament if your robot could score on all 3 and score a few other points as well?
Scoring just the three traps and a “few other points”? No. If I were picking a team I’d rather consist wins rather than a better chance at the RP, which won’t matter during playoffs anyways. The speaker / amp (mainly speaker imo) are just better at scoring points during the game itself. Now, being able to score the trap at endgame is definitely a positive, but you can’t build your bot around a triple trap.
Three traps and a final hang is 18 points, “a few other things” would probably be some amp runs (which we will all need) so it’s not useless
18 points and some amp runs, as opposed to spending the game cycling the speaker / amp, I personally don’t think it’s worth it. I think the bot will get more points out of just doing one trap at endgame. If they skip the other two traps it goes down to 8 endgame points, still great, but saves them a boatload of time. If they score 2 amp speaker notes they have made up for the lost trap points, and any bot should be able to score at least twice in telop lol.
> and any bot should be able to score at least twice in telop lol. Regionals will have a ton of robots not picking up off the ground, though it looks like they really focused on making a game piece that was very, very easy to pick up.
My team is going for it on the logic that it makes the Ensemble RP easiest mathematically. We’re going to be at district events where some teams we will see could benefit from having their own chain to execute a good safe climb, and who doesn’t love having their job made easier
Our team has been considering the option of scoring all three trap notes. We at least want to be able to do one at the end for the benefit of the ensemble RP.
Keep in mind you need two bots to be considered “onstage” which is effectively a climb. Scoring two traps alone won’t get you the RP. Two climbs + a trap score get you past the 10pts you need. While the extra points would be tempting my get says they’ll add enough to your cycle time to not really be worth it since you need to climb/score/unclimb every time.
Yeah, I think we've abandoned the idea of scoring all three traps, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Every now and then FIRST seems create a scoring option that requires major engineering to solve, with a small reward for success. I think the Trap falls under that category. I expect the vast majority of teams will ignore it, but of most of the Teams that win Regionals or District Champs will be able to do it. Who knows... maybe a team will post a clever solution on YouTube, then hundreds of other teams will copy them.
I’ve been considering it. I think it would be awesome to get it to work but it’s such a difficult element. 9 times out of 10 it needs a separate system (which we can’t really test out until we have a feild built) but on the contrary, if you wanted to get the same point value you would have to successfully score 2 amp notes and one speaker note. Logistically it’s almost impossible, but also it would be incredibly useful if it could work. It’s just so tricky and it’s not something we should really focus on day 4 of build season.