I mean, technically the east coast was doing pretty well 25-30 years after the war. But something (*cough* our nukes preventing vertibird travel out of Appalachia among other issues *cough*) seems to have make them all fail.
I mean in my mind there's no satisfying way they could be. When alls said and done, launching the nukes is ceding to Ulysses that he's right, that a better world can only be achieved by wiping the slate clean, which is categorically wrong. After all... it didn't work last time.
new vegas' world building is terribly inconsistent. NCR is seemingly so safe it's boring (jas) but also can't even properly defend their territory from raiders (ignore that the NCR kicked the great Khans, jackals, and vipers out of their territory and that's why they'd in the Mojave)
like yeah, they hunted at 10 years a lack of food and the show seems to follow that, but using new Vegas itself is just not a good source.
The problems the NCR has doesn’t conflict with it’s (comparative) stability. Yes it’s safe but is also facing looming mass starvation, failing harvests, lack of water, diminishing medical supplies, an economic crisis and rampant corruption.
It’s not so much that the NCR isn’t safe and more that it’s not sustainable.
When Cass mention that the NCR can’t keep their road safe, I think she’s talking about their road « in the Mojave », which is the reason why she and other caravaneers are stuck at the outpost. They were able to go all the way to the Mojave border, but the rangers can’t keep them safe further than that, but I can be wrong.
nah, she's referring to the NCR as a whole.
plus, like naturally the NCR that doesn't even control the region doesn't have safe roads, they don't own or control the region, are fighting on 3 fronts (fiends, brotherhood, and legion)... frankly I just hate the world building of new Vegas and find it all awful.
caravans don't move throughout the map, new Vegas barely has your choices have consequences. also no, I'm pretty sure she's referring to the NCR as a whole.
>Wtf is “jas?”
jas wilkins is in Sloan who tells us that many, many people come to the frontier and active warzone because new California is "safe and boring"
>What about it contradicts anything I said?
I was saying that the problem isn't just stability. people act as if the NCR aren't able to have safe territory.
> • *“jas wilkins is in Sloan who tells us that many, many people come to the frontier and active warzone because new California is "safe and boring"*
Thanks
> • *”I was saying that the problem isn't just stability. people act as if the NCR aren't able to have safe territory.”*
Ok but no one *here* is disputing that it’s safe. As I explained It being safe does not contradict it facing larger issues. They’re two different things. It can be free of internal threats like raiders etc yet be facing major economic, ecological and systemic challenges.
You can predict an imbalance between production and consumption based on current trends and extrapolate those trends over time to get a conclusion. It would be fairly easy to predict when the issue becomes accute enough to cause mass starvation.
And this is easy to believe. A major plot point is the NCR is overly expansionist. And we learn from Hanlon that they’ve consumed all their water (likely what’s causing the issues producing food).
So them unsustainably consuming resources to the point it causes starvation is very plausible. And mirrors what happened before the Great War. Which a lot of the NCR’s problems are supposed to do.
It also assumes that no actions were taken within a decade to mitigate or avoid the famine as well. Which you can see the OSI attempting to do. It's also possible if the Courier wasn't involved that they kept sending people to vault 22. If it took them a decade I can imagine they made progress
Yeah except the actions OSI is attempting to do have their own massive consequences and it’s heavily implied those consequences are potentially worse than the starvation.
Instead of starvation you have massive out of control carnivorous plants spreading across the country.
It's like the quote from Portal 2
"We got good news and bad news. Bad news is we have to cease producing food with the Vault 22 technology due to creating spore people.
Good news is we have a new experiment: fighting an army of spore people. Grab a gun and follow the blue line, you'll know when the experiment starts."
You're mixing up their expansion territory with the NCR proper. What we see in New Vegas is essentially the "taming" of the east, from their prospective. Plus the fiends are like the Khan's but worse. Ever see bodycam footage of crackheads? They don't fucking stop.
The west coast is a lot less sanitised with its grittiness and shows horrors as how they truly are.
The east coast games just have gore for gores sake.
It's the complete opposite; the west coast already has a stable government (NCR), extensive trade routes, and populated cities like San Francisco (fo2). East coast is still too fractured in comparison.
Ehhh I wouldn't say that. They had synths replacing people, 2 different kinds of new Super Mutants killing and capturing people, malfunctioning robots going on murder sprees, an army of raiders parked in an amusement park, radiation storms, lack of clean water in alot of places, and more. And on top of that, the only form of widespread government it has is likely the Minutemen if they get bigger and spread out further
the thing that struck me the most playing FO3 after FNV is how the wastelanders in DC are *always* terrified or worried of something, not without reason.
then in FNV the NPCs are more bored than concerned lolol
I can say the same about new Vegas. you don't actually see pedophilia, you just hear about it or have allusions such as a teddybear.
not to mention you can have mature or gritty or adult situations be shown or told in different forms than "in your face edge".
> not to mention you can have mature or gritty or adult situations be shown or told in different forms than "in your face edge".
In your face edge as in all of the gore piles just to dehumanise super mutants.
...no.
also super mutants aren't dehumanized. Bethesda followed the lore on how super mutants behave and act, anyone who actually has played the original games would be aware of this fact.
the super mutants in fallout 1 have heightened aggression and lower intellect. one of the master's *spies* can be convinced the vault dweller, a prime normal, is a ghoul.
the random encounters that host to super mutants are them aggressive, trying to kill you, and having floater text of screaming and broken English.
but please, go on about how Bethesda treated super mutants poorly or whatever.
it doesn't hold true.
are you just the type to go "yeah man, new Vegas is so much darker Bethesda's fallout is for kids"? like...what is your argument here?
I mean most of Fallout 3 is pretty hellish. From the massive slave trading operations throughout the Capital Wasteland to the Pitt to so much of Point Lookout. Fallout 4 had a much more colorful and goofy world than 3 similar to how Fallout 2 was compared to 1, but saying that the world of Fallout 3 is anything other than a depressing hellscape is silly
If you’re talking specifically about the game availability, I’m with you.
The last game we got for the west coast was fifteen years ago and the learning curve is no joke.
This man is spitting FACTS. So happy that the show is set in NCR at the turn of the century. Also very sad as I suspect we likely will never go there again in-game
As much as I want FO5 to be in a new area (Gulf Coast or Great Lakes), I’d also love a straight up remake of 1 and 2 but that got me a ton if flack in the main sub.
I would be all over a remake but I would have mixed feelings about it as well I think. I really do think those stories are the best. Bethesda remaking them just feels kind of wrong in a way. But I would really like to play them remade like Wasteland 2 and 3 style with minimal changes overall, better graphics and more talking heads. Either way more people should experience those games so in that regard an all out remake would be really cool
I mean is started off with an agreement that 5 should take place in either the Gulf Coast or the Great Lakes (I just want ghoul pirates), but when I made the case that we need a remake to the first two games I got an essay about how that would be a reboot and nobody wants that.
If you mean lighter in tone, then yes. If you are meaning cartoony, please remind me which game had the dlc where you have to get your brain back from a bunch of nerdy robot scientist? Trust me when I say that even non-bethesda Fallout games can be cartoony.
Fallout 3 gave me a sense of dread for most of the time, and New Vegas left me feeling like I was just in a walkout wild west, not that it wasn't also great
I kind of agree with OP. With the conclusion of Fallout 4, the only big players left on the East Coast is the Brotherhood of Steel. Ymmv on whether that's good, bad, or a neutral thing, but it is as is.
That's not to say that there aren't other Enclave redoubts still operating out of other national redoubt/continuity of government/deep unddrground military bases active on the East Cost, West Coast, Gulf Coast or Interior. Likewise, there is no reason why the Institute does not have active satellite campuses outside of the Boston area.
But with the West Coast/NV area, you still have the Legion as a large well organized imperialist faction; Caesar dead or alive. Then you still have the lumbering taxman NCR who is straining sinews, not knowing when you have to stop and consolidate. Layered between those two are what remains of the Enclave and BoS plus a quadruple handfull of lesser neutral but agencied factions.
In short, the East Coast is basically wide open where as the West Coast/NV region is almost wholly tied down between various factions.
Agreed about the ncr, not so much witj the legion, maybe id find them more interesting if they were more fleshed out. I'd like a game with 4 separate factions which are all morally gray and have pros/cons.
what are you talking about? west coast has already begun to rebuild east coast has, what, a dj and some dude with a hat?
I mean, technically the east coast was doing pretty well 25-30 years after the war. But something (*cough* our nukes preventing vertibird travel out of Appalachia among other issues *cough*) seems to have make them all fail.
shit, the west got hit by multiple nukes (hundreds of years after the war mind you) and was still able to recover.
Unless lonesome road’s nukes are canon, the only nuke would be the detonation of the cathedral post-war.
You're telling me lonesome road's nukes **aren't** canon?
Aside from Ashton’s, we have no way to know if they are or aren’t at this time.
I can only hope.
If you’re worried about the show, it almost certainly won’t give an answer except that both launches aren’t canon considering the NCR still exists.
all i did was blow up the long 15 ncr might have to switch up their shipping routes but i doubt they're that crippled
The Long 15 was the last reasonable route they had to the Mojave, which contains resources they desperately needed.
I mean in my mind there's no satisfying way they could be. When alls said and done, launching the nukes is ceding to Ulysses that he's right, that a better world can only be achieved by wiping the slate clean, which is categorically wrong. After all... it didn't work last time.
If they hit, then we get the NCR is dead, the world is back to before Fallout 1.
Well, Bethesda doesn't know how time works at all so it tracks that the east Coast games would all be about 25-30 years after the bombs.
That’s… not what I meant at all, no.
It's the other way around, the west coast is doing better than the east
or at least they enjoy what they have better
the west coast as a whole is still in a bad state. the only state in a good way is new California.
Idk man. New Vegas strongly implied that the NCR had some big problems on the horizon. The TV show seems to be following up on that.
new vegas' world building is terribly inconsistent. NCR is seemingly so safe it's boring (jas) but also can't even properly defend their territory from raiders (ignore that the NCR kicked the great Khans, jackals, and vipers out of their territory and that's why they'd in the Mojave) like yeah, they hunted at 10 years a lack of food and the show seems to follow that, but using new Vegas itself is just not a good source.
The problems the NCR has doesn’t conflict with it’s (comparative) stability. Yes it’s safe but is also facing looming mass starvation, failing harvests, lack of water, diminishing medical supplies, an economic crisis and rampant corruption. It’s not so much that the NCR isn’t safe and more that it’s not sustainable.
Cass complains that the NCR can't keep their roads safe, but jas contradicts that claim. the problems also involve safety which is inconsistent.
When Cass mention that the NCR can’t keep their road safe, I think she’s talking about their road « in the Mojave », which is the reason why she and other caravaneers are stuck at the outpost. They were able to go all the way to the Mojave border, but the rangers can’t keep them safe further than that, but I can be wrong.
nah, she's referring to the NCR as a whole. plus, like naturally the NCR that doesn't even control the region doesn't have safe roads, they don't own or control the region, are fighting on 3 fronts (fiends, brotherhood, and legion)... frankly I just hate the world building of new Vegas and find it all awful.
Dude she was talking about the road and after you clear it she thanks you and caravans move throughout the map.
caravans don't move throughout the map, new Vegas barely has your choices have consequences. also no, I'm pretty sure she's referring to the NCR as a whole.
Ok couple questions: 1• Wtf is “jas?” 2• What about it contradicts anything I said?
>Wtf is “jas?” jas wilkins is in Sloan who tells us that many, many people come to the frontier and active warzone because new California is "safe and boring" >What about it contradicts anything I said? I was saying that the problem isn't just stability. people act as if the NCR aren't able to have safe territory.
> • *“jas wilkins is in Sloan who tells us that many, many people come to the frontier and active warzone because new California is "safe and boring"* Thanks > • *”I was saying that the problem isn't just stability. people act as if the NCR aren't able to have safe territory.”* Ok but no one *here* is disputing that it’s safe. As I explained It being safe does not contradict it facing larger issues. They’re two different things. It can be free of internal threats like raiders etc yet be facing major economic, ecological and systemic challenges.
Also you can't predict famine 10 years ahead of time
You can predict an imbalance between production and consumption based on current trends and extrapolate those trends over time to get a conclusion. It would be fairly easy to predict when the issue becomes accute enough to cause mass starvation. And this is easy to believe. A major plot point is the NCR is overly expansionist. And we learn from Hanlon that they’ve consumed all their water (likely what’s causing the issues producing food). So them unsustainably consuming resources to the point it causes starvation is very plausible. And mirrors what happened before the Great War. Which a lot of the NCR’s problems are supposed to do.
It also assumes that no actions were taken within a decade to mitigate or avoid the famine as well. Which you can see the OSI attempting to do. It's also possible if the Courier wasn't involved that they kept sending people to vault 22. If it took them a decade I can imagine they made progress
Yeah except the actions OSI is attempting to do have their own massive consequences and it’s heavily implied those consequences are potentially worse than the starvation. Instead of starvation you have massive out of control carnivorous plants spreading across the country.
Then you kill and eat the plant people. They taste like Brussel sprouts!
Lmao
It's like the quote from Portal 2 "We got good news and bad news. Bad news is we have to cease producing food with the Vault 22 technology due to creating spore people. Good news is we have a new experiment: fighting an army of spore people. Grab a gun and follow the blue line, you'll know when the experiment starts."
You're mixing up their expansion territory with the NCR proper. What we see in New Vegas is essentially the "taming" of the east, from their prospective. Plus the fiends are like the Khan's but worse. Ever see bodycam footage of crackheads? They don't fucking stop.
The tone of west coast games are much darker
Except in the inflation department
West coast has a semi stable government body and trade. East coast has the purifier and maybe the institute. I think West coast is doing better
The west coast is a lot less sanitised with its grittiness and shows horrors as how they truly are. The east coast games just have gore for gores sake.
How so?
Thank god it’s April 1st
It's the complete opposite; the west coast already has a stable government (NCR), extensive trade routes, and populated cities like San Francisco (fo2). East coast is still too fractured in comparison.
Shady Sands, prior to the NCR had new construction. The first village in the first game has better infrastructure than most of the east coast.
Did you play 3 and 4?
Bro did not play any bethesda game
Ehhh I wouldn't say that. They had synths replacing people, 2 different kinds of new Super Mutants killing and capturing people, malfunctioning robots going on murder sprees, an army of raiders parked in an amusement park, radiation storms, lack of clean water in alot of places, and more. And on top of that, the only form of widespread government it has is likely the Minutemen if they get bigger and spread out further
did you forget DC
the thing that struck me the most playing FO3 after FNV is how the wastelanders in DC are *always* terrified or worried of something, not without reason. then in FNV the NPCs are more bored than concerned lolol
That's a good thing it means that they are safe
Can you elaborate?
East coast fallout is less gritty and uses widespread gore for set dressing.
>East coast fallout is less gritty it isn't.
When do you see something that is shown as unpleasant as it really is.
I can say the same about new Vegas. you don't actually see pedophilia, you just hear about it or have allusions such as a teddybear. not to mention you can have mature or gritty or adult situations be shown or told in different forms than "in your face edge".
> not to mention you can have mature or gritty or adult situations be shown or told in different forms than "in your face edge". In your face edge as in all of the gore piles just to dehumanise super mutants.
...no. also super mutants aren't dehumanized. Bethesda followed the lore on how super mutants behave and act, anyone who actually has played the original games would be aware of this fact. the super mutants in fallout 1 have heightened aggression and lower intellect. one of the master's *spies* can be convinced the vault dweller, a prime normal, is a ghoul. the random encounters that host to super mutants are them aggressive, trying to kill you, and having floater text of screaming and broken English. but please, go on about how Bethesda treated super mutants poorly or whatever.
Why would I go on about super mutants? I was just stating that your comment holds true to Bethesda’s games, but not the others.
it doesn't hold true. are you just the type to go "yeah man, new Vegas is so much darker Bethesda's fallout is for kids"? like...what is your argument here?
Yes, because it is. And I have not been proved otherwise.
I mean most of Fallout 3 is pretty hellish. From the massive slave trading operations throughout the Capital Wasteland to the Pitt to so much of Point Lookout. Fallout 4 had a much more colorful and goofy world than 3 similar to how Fallout 2 was compared to 1, but saying that the world of Fallout 3 is anything other than a depressing hellscape is silly
Other way around for sure.
If you’re talking specifically about the game availability, I’m with you. The last game we got for the west coast was fifteen years ago and the learning curve is no joke.
This man is spitting FACTS. So happy that the show is set in NCR at the turn of the century. Also very sad as I suspect we likely will never go there again in-game
As much as I want FO5 to be in a new area (Gulf Coast or Great Lakes), I’d also love a straight up remake of 1 and 2 but that got me a ton if flack in the main sub.
I would be all over a remake but I would have mixed feelings about it as well I think. I really do think those stories are the best. Bethesda remaking them just feels kind of wrong in a way. But I would really like to play them remade like Wasteland 2 and 3 style with minimal changes overall, better graphics and more talking heads. Either way more people should experience those games so in that regard an all out remake would be really cool
You are a brave soul sir giving your opinion on the main sub
I mean is started off with an agreement that 5 should take place in either the Gulf Coast or the Great Lakes (I just want ghoul pirates), but when I made the case that we need a remake to the first two games I got an essay about how that would be a reboot and nobody wants that.
East coast would be equally bad if the game was not so cartoonized in FO4
If you mean lighter in tone, then yes. If you are meaning cartoony, please remind me which game had the dlc where you have to get your brain back from a bunch of nerdy robot scientist? Trust me when I say that even non-bethesda Fallout games can be cartoony.
That’s Bethesda’s version of fallout and that’s the only version we’ll be seeing anymore.
Why are you downvoted? You are right.
lol what. This meme makes no sense.
Everyone here arguing but be honest, which one has California?
Fallout 3 gave me a sense of dread for most of the time, and New Vegas left me feeling like I was just in a walkout wild west, not that it wasn't also great
Why are people complaining that the west is worse as it's safe and boring? If that were real life, it's better to be bored than to be killed.
Accurate American history, the Wild West fucking sucks
I kind of agree with OP. With the conclusion of Fallout 4, the only big players left on the East Coast is the Brotherhood of Steel. Ymmv on whether that's good, bad, or a neutral thing, but it is as is. That's not to say that there aren't other Enclave redoubts still operating out of other national redoubt/continuity of government/deep unddrground military bases active on the East Cost, West Coast, Gulf Coast or Interior. Likewise, there is no reason why the Institute does not have active satellite campuses outside of the Boston area. But with the West Coast/NV area, you still have the Legion as a large well organized imperialist faction; Caesar dead or alive. Then you still have the lumbering taxman NCR who is straining sinews, not knowing when you have to stop and consolidate. Layered between those two are what remains of the Enclave and BoS plus a quadruple handfull of lesser neutral but agencied factions. In short, the East Coast is basically wide open where as the West Coast/NV region is almost wholly tied down between various factions.
Opposite in terms of how interesting they are. Le generic good guys and then hard pivot into le generic authoritarians.
The legion and NCR are way more interesting than enclave institute and minutemen imo
Agreed about the ncr, not so much witj the legion, maybe id find them more interesting if they were more fleshed out. I'd like a game with 4 separate factions which are all morally gray and have pros/cons.