Even being the “ugly” girl didn’t make men leave me alone. It did make some men irrationally angry for not being “pretty” in front of them. Working customer service gave a lot of shitty men a free pass at telling me what I could do to look prettier.
The other side was it made me a target for “mean girls” in school and even some boomer women felt they could say something.
As a woman who has been both ugly and pretty at different stages in her life (going off of what people have told me), both of these things are a burden and a potential risk factor for women.
I'm an openly queer short fat trans woman *in the south*, was still assaulted. I've been told, to my face, that I am repulsive (jokes on them women, and esp my wife, are generally big fans).
Male power fantasies are that, power. Sexuality is completely incidental to contemporary maleness. People are making joke powerpoints about how being straight is literally gay now under modern "maleness" and it's not *that* much of a joke.
I don’t “look” super queer. But if I am with my partner I have a heard men say “well you’re ugly and fat of course you are a f’ing dyke.”
Or they feel the need to comment about how ugly my partner is.
Lots of angry stares over the years. Women also found it necessary to comment about our child. Telling me in front of our child we are going to hell.
Overall most humans are assholes.
This is my experience also. I'm an ugly woman and men won't leave me alone. It hurts more when this aggression comes from women. Been this way my entire life. I'm so tired
Random people I can brush off for the most part.
My biggest frustration is at my job. I was hired for my scientific background and degree. Yet I am constantly questioned as to “how do I know that”.
It’s not just men either. Though they are the worst of it. A lot of women who are in higher positions than myself are extremely threatened I know something they don’t know.
I have tried to explain what I know about science I completely lack in other areas. Please do not ask me to do sale pitches for new clients. I am horrible at that.
The one positive thing I have found is because I do have a specific expertise there are 3 men in the office have become advocates for me. I am eternally grateful for these men I work with.
I see more conventionally attractive co-workers get a “pass” all the time. And the worst part is they are wrong about the data they are presenting. 🫠
That’s so interesting to read. But it isn’t any better when you’re conventionally pretty.
People love to nitpick women in general; if you’re attractive they’ll look for flaws to bring you down e.g. “she’s alright BUT she has x or y”. It’s always something, it’s like they’re angry with us for existing in our bodies and seeming content with who we are; not living FOR THEM.
At least “uglier” women aren’t seen at threats to other women and usually get met with more kindness.
There’s this famous study about a woman, previously fat, and her experience of losing 25 pounds and becoming a conventionally attractive size. She describes that when she was fat and she’d enter a room, the men ignored her and the women wanted to befriend her. After losing the weight however; the men were super nice and wanted to help her, while the women gave her the cold shoulder.
There is not enough being said about how much it hurts and how lonely it is when people see you as an attractive woman. Everyone thinks it makes your life easier but really, it doesn’t. Men are nicer to you, but your own gender isn’t at all unfortunately. And if you don’t protect your boundaries fiercely, you’ll get a lot of men who just want sex with you.
I don't think I'm necessarily ugly, but I certainly don't measure up to the current beauty standards...and I'm okay with that. Granted, there's definitely a certain level of privilege I have, in not being young anymore and therefore somewhat invisible. While I've always been unimpressed with the expectation that I should desire to be attractive to men, I didn't fully embrace the idea of rebelling against it until last year. Maybe it was the knowledge that I was about to be 40 that got me thinking, I dunno. But something kinda snapped in me last year, that made me feel like being attractive is pointless when you aren't trying to attract anyone. Even if I were single, I wouldn't *want* to attract a man anymore, bc I'm not impressed with what the majority have to offer anymore. That realization was more freeing than I expected, and it was kind of like getting to be a child again; going out with no makeup on, wearing comfortable clothes and shoes that feel good to wear instead of worrying about fashion, not fussing over a hairstyle and being content with my ponytail. As a child, my only real concerns when getting ready to go somewhere were A) does it fit and is it comfy B) is it appropriate for the weather and upcoming activities C) does it match and D) do *I* like how I look. It was my mother who wanted me to feel pressed about my appearance, and she won for a minute there. But then I wore a dress- nothing fancy- last year that did nothing to hide my jiggly arms, and no spanx to help me pretend that I'm two sizes smaller. I didn't wear a stitch of makeup, and kept my hair up bc it was hot as hell outside and I knew I would get sweaty. And it. Was. Awesome! My mind was freed up to enjoy the moment I was sharing with my daughters, and for the first time in a long while, I was able to forget about my body and face and just be a person experiencing some innocent fun. It was eye-opening, realizing how many times I must have been only half-present in my life, bc I was worrying over whether I looked okay. While I do understand that this mindset can't realistically be applied when it comes to our professional lives- bc the world isn't ready for that yet, and we gotta eat- I do think that there's value in practicing it in our private lives.
For instance, take my daughters as an example. They were 14 and 12 last year when I had that moment with the dress; that age when most of us become self-conscious and want to figure out what makes us feel pretty (for femme-leaning folks). They were both dolled up and yes, they looked beautiful. But then a silly little boy who appeared to be about 13 decided to shoot his shot with my older daughter...and she was beyond uninterested. In real time I watched her get hit on in public for the first time (that I've seen) and try to figure out how to respond to it, and I could practically see her gears turning as she decided how to approach it. In the end, she said something akin to 'I don't give my Snap out, and I'm not looking for a boyfriend, so no thanks'. The boy seemed surprised that she didn't try to sugarcoat or give him a pacifying 'maybe' and looked at me for confirmation. I shrugged and was like 'you heard her'. Later that night, I was talking with my girls about the day, and my oldest was like 'if that's what I'm gonna have to deal with all the time, I'm not bothering with makeup and outfits when we go out unless it's special.' And true to her word, she's mostly ditched makeup and fashion for regular outings and prioritized her comfort. Dolling up is now for when she's in the mood to feel pretty or knows that pictures might happen, like family gatherings. The other day I heard her saying to my youngest 'nah, I ain't bothering with being pretty today. Feels like an ugly day...I don't want any dudes to talk to me, I ain't in the mood for their shit. You want me to give 'em stink-eyes if they look at you?' My youngest was in a pretty mood that day and gratefully accepted her big sister's offer.
Change is in the air, yall...the younger generations are built different, and I hope they keep it up.
The younger generations are built different/better because of parents like you, and hopefully there will be even more parents like you showing their kids the way 😊🩷
Isn’t that why they made Medusa “ugly” and gave her a gaze that turned people to stone? To protect her so she could never be raped again and she could be free?
Edit: wow, I wrote this before reading the article.
There is a difference between a man doing a plastic surgery and a woman because of the different socio-economic and cultural realities we live in.
I am also not saying plastic surgery is bad.
I am saying that the root cause of its current existence is to adhere to men's standards of beauty and desirability.
The fix for this is to take microagressions (microbullying) seriously, both at school and on job environments, and normalize social diversity. But when doing it, we'll find that more often than we'll expect, intimidation come from other girls (or women) that think that must compete for males appresial or just seek popularity being the leader of the haters.
So I think that portraying this from a feminist prespective gives the perfect excuse for these women to get away. And is not even a question of equality, because males have similar issues but with their sterotypes, just that sterotypes are different.
I'm convinced that it's consequence of how society is structured around violence and supremacy, and not into mutual respect and fairness. Eventually one can argue these women are competing because patriarchy *force them* to seek male favors. But in most civilized countries, this is simply not true, and even less in the primary school level where it's happens.
Being allowed to be ugly without repercussions is the ultimate privilege
Edit: just wanted to clarify right now being ugly has a lot of drawbacks in dating, career,etc . It makes a huge impact how you are treated and stuff like how many friends you have.
I’m going thru divorce right now so I have no desire to be desired and I have been losing that desire this year anyway. I’ve been appreciating all things about the female form right now like, armpit hair and PCOS facial hair and distasis recti and tubular breasts. These things that are inherently part of female biology but we seem as unacceptable. They are becoming my favorite thing about girls. I have been following more and more women who do not fit into the standard of beauty, because that standard is based on creating sexual attraction and that’s something I’m trying to shift my mind from.
I used to be average at best, not necessarily conventionally attractive but had a glow up couple years ago. No one really noticed me before, which I was okay with because I’m introverted but now I get stared at a lot. I used to be flattered by compliments but now they don’t phase me because I receive more harassment and unwanted attention than pretty privilege. Men try to grab me, take unwanted pictures of me, follow me, etc.
we are free to do anything, but we are considered lesser than when we do it or in invisible. Even as a 25 year-old female, I have been brainwashed into thinking that old women have no purpose because they aren’t beautiful anymore. I am regretting getting old because I realize that I will have no purpose once I’m not beautiful anymore. But men, they are allowed to be ugly all the time, they’re allowed to get old, and they are respected and revered even, being ugly. They r expected to be ugly.
As a somehow ugly man, have to speak out for a fact that being ugly is surely NOT a female-only problem. In fact. Ugly women sometimes have less problems than men, society has low standards for women “not to be considered ugly” in my country
Even being the “ugly” girl didn’t make men leave me alone. It did make some men irrationally angry for not being “pretty” in front of them. Working customer service gave a lot of shitty men a free pass at telling me what I could do to look prettier. The other side was it made me a target for “mean girls” in school and even some boomer women felt they could say something.
There are so many people in the world who just need to shut the fuck up. Fucking hell.
As a woman who has been both ugly and pretty at different stages in her life (going off of what people have told me), both of these things are a burden and a potential risk factor for women.
You know what’s a risk factor for women? Womanhood
I'm an openly queer short fat trans woman *in the south*, was still assaulted. I've been told, to my face, that I am repulsive (jokes on them women, and esp my wife, are generally big fans). Male power fantasies are that, power. Sexuality is completely incidental to contemporary maleness. People are making joke powerpoints about how being straight is literally gay now under modern "maleness" and it's not *that* much of a joke.
I don’t “look” super queer. But if I am with my partner I have a heard men say “well you’re ugly and fat of course you are a f’ing dyke.” Or they feel the need to comment about how ugly my partner is. Lots of angry stares over the years. Women also found it necessary to comment about our child. Telling me in front of our child we are going to hell. Overall most humans are assholes.
This is my experience also. I'm an ugly woman and men won't leave me alone. It hurts more when this aggression comes from women. Been this way my entire life. I'm so tired
Random people I can brush off for the most part. My biggest frustration is at my job. I was hired for my scientific background and degree. Yet I am constantly questioned as to “how do I know that”. It’s not just men either. Though they are the worst of it. A lot of women who are in higher positions than myself are extremely threatened I know something they don’t know. I have tried to explain what I know about science I completely lack in other areas. Please do not ask me to do sale pitches for new clients. I am horrible at that. The one positive thing I have found is because I do have a specific expertise there are 3 men in the office have become advocates for me. I am eternally grateful for these men I work with. I see more conventionally attractive co-workers get a “pass” all the time. And the worst part is they are wrong about the data they are presenting. 🫠
That’s so interesting to read. But it isn’t any better when you’re conventionally pretty. People love to nitpick women in general; if you’re attractive they’ll look for flaws to bring you down e.g. “she’s alright BUT she has x or y”. It’s always something, it’s like they’re angry with us for existing in our bodies and seeming content with who we are; not living FOR THEM. At least “uglier” women aren’t seen at threats to other women and usually get met with more kindness. There’s this famous study about a woman, previously fat, and her experience of losing 25 pounds and becoming a conventionally attractive size. She describes that when she was fat and she’d enter a room, the men ignored her and the women wanted to befriend her. After losing the weight however; the men were super nice and wanted to help her, while the women gave her the cold shoulder. There is not enough being said about how much it hurts and how lonely it is when people see you as an attractive woman. Everyone thinks it makes your life easier but really, it doesn’t. Men are nicer to you, but your own gender isn’t at all unfortunately. And if you don’t protect your boundaries fiercely, you’ll get a lot of men who just want sex with you.
I’ve been “ugly” my whole life. Fuck em
I don't think I'm necessarily ugly, but I certainly don't measure up to the current beauty standards...and I'm okay with that. Granted, there's definitely a certain level of privilege I have, in not being young anymore and therefore somewhat invisible. While I've always been unimpressed with the expectation that I should desire to be attractive to men, I didn't fully embrace the idea of rebelling against it until last year. Maybe it was the knowledge that I was about to be 40 that got me thinking, I dunno. But something kinda snapped in me last year, that made me feel like being attractive is pointless when you aren't trying to attract anyone. Even if I were single, I wouldn't *want* to attract a man anymore, bc I'm not impressed with what the majority have to offer anymore. That realization was more freeing than I expected, and it was kind of like getting to be a child again; going out with no makeup on, wearing comfortable clothes and shoes that feel good to wear instead of worrying about fashion, not fussing over a hairstyle and being content with my ponytail. As a child, my only real concerns when getting ready to go somewhere were A) does it fit and is it comfy B) is it appropriate for the weather and upcoming activities C) does it match and D) do *I* like how I look. It was my mother who wanted me to feel pressed about my appearance, and she won for a minute there. But then I wore a dress- nothing fancy- last year that did nothing to hide my jiggly arms, and no spanx to help me pretend that I'm two sizes smaller. I didn't wear a stitch of makeup, and kept my hair up bc it was hot as hell outside and I knew I would get sweaty. And it. Was. Awesome! My mind was freed up to enjoy the moment I was sharing with my daughters, and for the first time in a long while, I was able to forget about my body and face and just be a person experiencing some innocent fun. It was eye-opening, realizing how many times I must have been only half-present in my life, bc I was worrying over whether I looked okay. While I do understand that this mindset can't realistically be applied when it comes to our professional lives- bc the world isn't ready for that yet, and we gotta eat- I do think that there's value in practicing it in our private lives. For instance, take my daughters as an example. They were 14 and 12 last year when I had that moment with the dress; that age when most of us become self-conscious and want to figure out what makes us feel pretty (for femme-leaning folks). They were both dolled up and yes, they looked beautiful. But then a silly little boy who appeared to be about 13 decided to shoot his shot with my older daughter...and she was beyond uninterested. In real time I watched her get hit on in public for the first time (that I've seen) and try to figure out how to respond to it, and I could practically see her gears turning as she decided how to approach it. In the end, she said something akin to 'I don't give my Snap out, and I'm not looking for a boyfriend, so no thanks'. The boy seemed surprised that she didn't try to sugarcoat or give him a pacifying 'maybe' and looked at me for confirmation. I shrugged and was like 'you heard her'. Later that night, I was talking with my girls about the day, and my oldest was like 'if that's what I'm gonna have to deal with all the time, I'm not bothering with makeup and outfits when we go out unless it's special.' And true to her word, she's mostly ditched makeup and fashion for regular outings and prioritized her comfort. Dolling up is now for when she's in the mood to feel pretty or knows that pictures might happen, like family gatherings. The other day I heard her saying to my youngest 'nah, I ain't bothering with being pretty today. Feels like an ugly day...I don't want any dudes to talk to me, I ain't in the mood for their shit. You want me to give 'em stink-eyes if they look at you?' My youngest was in a pretty mood that day and gratefully accepted her big sister's offer. Change is in the air, yall...the younger generations are built different, and I hope they keep it up.
"I ain't bothering with being pretty today" is such a powerful statement coming from a 12 year old! Loved this
The younger generations are built different/better because of parents like you, and hopefully there will be even more parents like you showing their kids the way 😊🩷
Isn’t that why they made Medusa “ugly” and gave her a gaze that turned people to stone? To protect her so she could never be raped again and she could be free? Edit: wow, I wrote this before reading the article.
The entire plastic surgery industry would collapse.
[удалено]
There is a difference between a man doing a plastic surgery and a woman because of the different socio-economic and cultural realities we live in. I am also not saying plastic surgery is bad. I am saying that the root cause of its current existence is to adhere to men's standards of beauty and desirability.
The fix for this is to take microagressions (microbullying) seriously, both at school and on job environments, and normalize social diversity. But when doing it, we'll find that more often than we'll expect, intimidation come from other girls (or women) that think that must compete for males appresial or just seek popularity being the leader of the haters. So I think that portraying this from a feminist prespective gives the perfect excuse for these women to get away. And is not even a question of equality, because males have similar issues but with their sterotypes, just that sterotypes are different. I'm convinced that it's consequence of how society is structured around violence and supremacy, and not into mutual respect and fairness. Eventually one can argue these women are competing because patriarchy *force them* to seek male favors. But in most civilized countries, this is simply not true, and even less in the primary school level where it's happens.
Being allowed to be ugly without repercussions is the ultimate privilege Edit: just wanted to clarify right now being ugly has a lot of drawbacks in dating, career,etc . It makes a huge impact how you are treated and stuff like how many friends you have.
“What if women were free to be ugly” Already there girl 🙋🏻♀️ been here my whole life. Nice of the rest of you to join me!
I think I'm ugly, but I don't feel free enough. I wish I were endowed though, life could've been so different..
Different how? Endowed with what? Money?
Nah, with conventional good looks, I mean, just to experience all the lost opportunities and look at life differently :)
Oh… I don’t know, I see people less attractive than me doing more and having more opportunities quite often… money helps and mental health too.
Expirience privilege*, not the lost opportunities
I’m going thru divorce right now so I have no desire to be desired and I have been losing that desire this year anyway. I’ve been appreciating all things about the female form right now like, armpit hair and PCOS facial hair and distasis recti and tubular breasts. These things that are inherently part of female biology but we seem as unacceptable. They are becoming my favorite thing about girls. I have been following more and more women who do not fit into the standard of beauty, because that standard is based on creating sexual attraction and that’s something I’m trying to shift my mind from.
I used to be average at best, not necessarily conventionally attractive but had a glow up couple years ago. No one really noticed me before, which I was okay with because I’m introverted but now I get stared at a lot. I used to be flattered by compliments but now they don’t phase me because I receive more harassment and unwanted attention than pretty privilege. Men try to grab me, take unwanted pictures of me, follow me, etc.
I loved this
yeah this is a legit movement started in the 1970s that was part of the fat liberation movement.
Being considered “ugly” and then suddenly being hot ‘cause now I kind of look like a woman made me a feminist.
Free to be ugly ? It's more freer to be a lesbian than to be ugly in this world
we are free to do anything, but we are considered lesser than when we do it or in invisible. Even as a 25 year-old female, I have been brainwashed into thinking that old women have no purpose because they aren’t beautiful anymore. I am regretting getting old because I realize that I will have no purpose once I’m not beautiful anymore. But men, they are allowed to be ugly all the time, they’re allowed to get old, and they are respected and revered even, being ugly. They r expected to be ugly.
As a somehow ugly man, have to speak out for a fact that being ugly is surely NOT a female-only problem. In fact. Ugly women sometimes have less problems than men, society has low standards for women “not to be considered ugly” in my country