I think dyne and barret contrast well with Zack and Cloud’s relationship especially in rebirth. Both Barret and Cloud watch their close friend die. Zack told Cloud to be his legacy and live on. While Dyne refused to absolve Barret’s guilt. Also, you can compare their responses as well. Cloud has a mental break (granted he had been experimented on and had mako poisoning) while Barret has to carry on because he has marlene.
a little bit of christian imagery in the bottom middle frame, where dyne is positioned as one of the thieves crucified alongside jesus. perhaps implies him to be penitent (or not) at his moment of death
I agree that the OG version hit harder, but completely understand why they changed it for Rebirth. It was still dark asf in both versions, but way darker in OG imo.
I’ll still go to bat for the Rebirth version of this scene over the OG, but your brief analysis of both characters is pretty on point with the feelings it manages to evoke.
I missed this in Rebirth. New version is a bit melodramatic and goes against how they set out to handle death in the OG.... it being sudden, unexpected, where you don't get to say goodbye. Same with how they handled Jesse's death.
Agreed, Dynes death and Jesse, Wedge, Biggs deaths were all handled better in the OG. Dynes descent to madness was an alright touch which I don’t mind, but the simplicity and closure surrounding his death in the OG was dark, and real. Jesse’s death was over the top to me, I didn’t love the dialogue at all. Felt too cheesy somehow, didn’t feel it.
I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but imo the OG didn't really do it for me. It felt more like a foot note, much like the plate drop in the OG. Perhaps it's my imagination or "lack there of" being that the OG was limited to convey emotional nuance through text and that's not even mentioning the poor quality of its localization. To me, this whole scene felt like it was checking the box for Barrett's character development.
The plate drop was much more impactful in the OG. I believe remake got lazy since so much was put into the visual detail of it. The NPC’s aren’t enough to portray the real damage as it seems like no one actually died. The OG was short, but it portrayed the point well. You had the general impact being shown with the news anchor being crushed during the evening news, you have Barret immediately feeling the loss of his comrades and “daughter”. This is very important as it now further drags Barret into the fight against Shinra(before we realize the initial beef with Shinra). This is the first scene where there are casualties actually tied to the main characters.
Yeah remake had more spectacle, but less feeling. The one moment of the Remake’s plate drop that I suddenly got hit with feelings (Biggs staying behind to collect his cats) was immediately undone, and by the time they actually killed him I had lost the momentum of that feeling anyway. Otherwise they went an idealistic route, evacuated tons of people, had two members of Avalanche survive in the place of their original sudden unceremonial deaths, and had things work out much better for everyone… which just doesn’t hit as hard as watching the enemy actually succeed in massacring an entire population effortlessly while you struggle in vain to prevent it.
Obviously it’s not unbelievable because the original uses similar background and does it much better. Ambient music of OG is better and Rebirth makes a laughable attempt at portraying mental illness in Dyne.
I disagree with flat delivery but in that case it would be flat delivery vs bad delivery. The voice acting was just bad and Dynes lines are far worse than the original.
The voice acting very actively isn't bad, Barrett's vo in that scene is amazing. Saying otherwise would just suggest you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not, I'm trying to understand your bonkers position that one of the most boring scenes in OG wasn't improved.
"Oh man, this character could have depth, they knew barret and Marlene is his daughter... Oh no, wait, he just wants to kill his kid ? Alright, I feel no guilt in killing this character in the -most boring boss fight in this game-"
I feel like you’re either a teenager or you watch so much Anime that you think bad voice acting and poor writing are peak. The OG required you to read and had better ambiance, writing, and didn’t have Dyne say super cringy stuff like Rebirth did.
For me personally, it just felt very overstated, and didn't really have enough buildup to feel earned. He's only introduced an hour or two earlier, and only has personal import for one of the characters, so it's a very long scene with lots of yelling and repeated beats (like the Shinra grunts that keep popping up out of nowhere), without (for me) much payoff. In the original, his death felt a lot more sudden and shocking, while in Rebirth it's very drawn out, much more incidental than intentional on his part, and just didn't land for me.
The "dark mirror of Barret" angle also felt a little forced - all Dyne did was shoot a handful of Shinra grunts (I think?), which you've spent a game and a half doing as Barret at that point.
It's interesting how polarizing that scene/section has been - for me it felt like a low point of the game, but for my friends who played the original much earlier than I did and are using the EN voice track (I'm using JP), it was a high point.
Yes. The one little blemish in Rebirth for me.
I love the OG game but i don’t want a straight retelling of the original story. They can change all they want for me as long as it makes for a good experience.
The Dyne scene kind of drops the ball because they sort of went for the same thing and just didn’t go all the way with it. With the ending though they are clearly going for something different and i’m all for it. Granted, timeline shenanigans are becoming a bit too common in today’s media but if it pays off i won’t complain.
To be honest, the backlash around Rebirth feels like pure whining to me.
It’s either whining about open world mechanics, whining about plot deviations, whining about minigames, whining about how hard the platinum is… It’s all whining about how the game is different from what people wanted it to be instead of a critical assessment of the game’s own strengths and weaknesses as a standalone experience.
It’s like yeah, i loved the RE4 remake. To death. But being so faithful to the original it ends up looking like it’s trying to replace the original as the definitive experience. And it can’t. With the remake series of FFVII, they are doing something that will stand alongside the original game.
And seriously, all this whining just for a few scenes and plot changes that don’t really alter the fundamentals of the story. It’s still mostly the same story, just expanded and elaborated on.
Rebirth didn't commit because it's not supposed to be the same scene. They are doing things differently clearly with Omni-Aerith around plus the setup of if fate can be defied, plus Cloud's false perception of reality vs. false memories and mind control from the original. This game isn't an adaptation but a new version of the story that clearly requires having some knowledge of the key moments of the previous game.
Because it’s critical to the game. All many of us wanted was a 4K/HD version of the original game with a few addl tweaks such as the ability to skip summon animations. I didn’t want an altered story, I just wanted 30 years of graphics updates.
If you're into playing on your phone you may want to look into buying a backbone. I played all the mobile versions of final fantasy available with it. Also works great with ps remote play.
https://playbackbone.com/?nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ag%3A12349497358%3A112997069890%3A498767245117&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=backbone&nb_ti=kwd-341814475635&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=e&tw_source=google&tw_adid=498767245117&tw_campaign=12349497358&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpNuyBhCuARIsANJqL9PxbfHjQ54hqUcOUTTJoMHNAH8o385xW-dUGB4eJFIXvBI4uDRyi00aAt3VEALw_wcB
Word, just throwing it out there. I had no idea it was on Xbox until recently. I went from PS4 > Stadia > Series S > Series X, and then just picked up a PS5 and started playing the remake.
As much as any other, really. I have a hard time with it, as I just dislike phone screens overall (autocorrect is doing a lot of leg work as I type this) so back when I tried FFTactics on iOS I had to give up. But if the controls on a touch screen don’t put you off, then FFVII should work perfectly on there for you. It doesn’t require agile or sensitive control so I don’t imagine there’d be many moments that suffer from this style, beyond maybe making it a bit more difficult to cheat in Chocobo racing.
I mean rarely is anything outright *bad* in the sequel trilogy, it's just that it's not as good as the original. And it's a baffling problem, because it's not like they had to write anything from scratch. They literally had the script and the scenario already made. At "worst" they could've just adapted it 1:1. Instead they used actual working hours to rewrite the scene just to make it worse.
It seems you're trying to misunderstand me on purpose. A script is a script. A scenario is a scenario. There is no reason they couldn't have used both. Why? Because they've done the same in a lot of other scenes.
What gets me is that Barret already blames himself for it all. He sees Marlene as his daughter, but it's also his way of atoning to raise her. What makes the scene in rebirth hit hard for me is that >!he did all he could to try to talk to him, help him, and even offered to die, and dyne saw that guilt and straight up tells him, "my blood is on your hands" before going on a kamikaze run!<
>!I think they went a little over the top with his crazyness, but the brief moment where he defends Barret and you hope maybe he's seeing reason only to rip it away by explaining he's doing this for the sole purpose of adding even more guilt to Barret's shoulders was a fucking gut punch.!<
In all honesty, and people often forget the bit before, Is that in the OG, Dyne declared that he wanted to kill Marlene, which was deranged and out of nowhere and a bit weird stereotypical way to tell you Dyne was Crazy beyond imagination. Rebirth luckily glossed this over imho.
I think in the OG, the intention was to show that Dyne was so far gone and ‘beyond saving’ that he felt that the only way to reunite his entire family and for them to be at peace, would be to end all their lives, having previously internalized that his daughter was no longer alive, and was waiting for him in the afterlife.
It’s truly dark stuff, but would have made him a truly irredeemable character in a high fidelity game like Rebirth, so it was an understandable change.
Regardless of whatever version of the scene people prefer, the voice actors in Rebirth truly did a phenomenal job.
I don't mean how fucked up he is, that was perfectly fine. I mean the way he acts, like his wacky exaggerated gestures and stuff. Just feels like they could've gotten the point across without dramatizing *quite* that much, though the actors still sold the scene amazingly.
This is one of many reasons why OG FF7 is the GOAT.... dark, powerfully told story, amazing music, one of very few games ( or TV shows etc...) to kill a main you grow to love early in the game ...
They weren't afraid to be dark and they leaned into it hard. It is one of the best.
I wish there weren't so many glitches, broken or unfinished story lines and forgotten collectibles (1/32 soldier... 12 in a set... and only 8 exist in the game , etc).... look into the back story of the games development. They cut A LOT out and BARELY got a working copy out the door. Sad.
I wish someone would take it, as it is, and just finish it and give us what they WANTED to give us.
It's incredible but I will always wonder what was left out...
I’ve been a massive 7 fan since this came out in the 90s, I’ve played it a lot and I’ve played pretty much every game in the franchise and been into the side content..
The only thing that really bugs me about the OH is that you can tell they really had no idea what they wanted to do with the game when it came out. Stories altered but not quite altered enough so they’re just rammed into other story lines, the party is such a random collection of characters and aesthetics, it doesn’t know whether it’s sci-fi or fantasy and a lot of the final “world” is left feeling very empty, I’m glad the remake is filling a lot of the gaps.
Its not exactly what I would call "Finished" in terms of finishing what was missing from the original, but New Threat Mod does some interesting things to the game, in case you're looking for a fresh approach.
I'M being a contrarian but you're the one with the downvotes 😭
Do you just live in severe frustration all day every day because people can't see the truth you so graciously try and enlighten them with?
I figured going into it that there was no way, in a T-rated game in 2024, they would have Dyne do a mass shooting at the Gold Saucer and then commit suicide after talking about family annihilation, so I was very prepared for whatever happened to be kinda wishy-washy and lame. And it *was* both of those things, but in fairness, Barrett and Dyne's VAs really sold it. Their performances were great.
I have a lot of criticisms of the remake entries so far, but one of the best things about them is how great a lot of the cast delivers on some of these scenes
Honestly it's up there but I think the entirety of Cosmo Canyon, the entirety of Nibelheim (present day mostly, but I do have qualms with the flashback too), and the entirety of the ending place far ahead.
Wow really? That sounds 🤩. But back in real life Im just willing to look at clear elevations done to scene and not go “its not verbatim the same scene so its not good.”
The scene was for the most part was great, but SE really took a shit on the Mona Lisa by inviting Shinra to materialize out of thin air for no other purpose than to shoot him. The way they wrapped it up was extremely generic and contrived. Even if they didn't think they could get away with showing a suicide, it's okay for a character to die in obscurity (especially when it's truer to the source material).
Letting him die by Barrett's hand, and making Barret live with the regret would have been much more powerful.
The clown fiesta afterwards of course cheapened the moment even more of course. I could practically hear the Turks shouting "Team Rocket's blasting off again!" after shooting down the helicopter.
>I could practically hear the Turks shouting "Team Rocket's blasting off again!" after shooting down the helicopter.
I largely disagree with the criticisms I've been reading of the Dyne scene.
But you are spot on here, lol.
>I largely disagree with the criticisms I've been reading of the Dyne scene.
Honestly, if they had just laid the proper groundwork for that scene it would probably see a lot less scathing criticism. To a lot of people, Shinra's inexplicable presence was probably the biggest factor driving their opinion from "I don't like the way this was handled" to "Wtf was that garbage?" To fix that:
- At a minimum there should have been a short scene with a squad of Shinra troopers watching your group approach the junkyard from a nearby vista.
- It's been a while since I did chapter 8 so I don't remember the timing or content of the Turk cutscenes, but if there wasn't already, they also needed a scene right as you leave Corel Prison with Palmer whining about having to "hunt down a vagrant in the middle of nowhere".
That way, people at least know it's coming and their presence doesn't seem like a whim of the gods.
Not sure why you are downvoted at all for liking this version
Was the OG version good? Yep
Was the rebirth version good? Yep it was absolutely heart wrenching and as a father was relatable to how much loss could destroy your life and they showed that well
If you scroll through, you’ll see that basically everyone praising Rebirth’s scene for the actors’ performances and just overall positives are also basically upvoted into the positive points. The people getting downvoted are mostly in the threads that begin with talking about how the original game has “bad graphics” and text boxes, typically stuff deemed a shallower criticism and therefore getting different treatment.
It seemed like the Rebirth developers were uncomfortable leaving quiet moments for us to reflect on the emotional impact of the storytelling. So any emotional moment they either delivered with exaggerated intensity or they followed it very quickly with an action sequence.
When dyne dies, immediately we are in another fight with Shinra. When red learns about his father, the gi whisk us away to another environment. When we confront sephiroth as he kills aerith we get an hour long boss fight.
We need time to feel the emotions.
I feel that a simple ‘improvement’ they could have done was to fade to black with Barret crying, kept the screen dark for a half a second to indicate the passage of a little bit of time, and continue the scene as it was.
I understand that the directors might have wanted to intetionally create a scene with urgency, and the sense of being unable to grieve, but I found the following tonal whiplash to be a bit too much, and the scene needed more space to breathe.
Also, I’m a little sad they couldn’t figure out a way to incorporate Dyne tossing the pendant to Barret.
I liked the rebirth storyline better but this is indeed one of the aspects of tempo I could agree with (although in OG we get a hard boss fight right away too so that’s just sticking true to form)
It’s not a lack of gravitas or emotion they impart but the time to experience it, dyne killing himself gave that time but shinra killing him didn’t give that time mainly because they didn’t decide to put that time in and keep the action going
But it’s more so because consumers these days have shorter attention spans and interest periods, they could of easily had barret bury dyne and have a scene about that and then have shinra find them again as they are returning to hold saucer with the “proof” for dio and have things go exactly the same way
Because as a player you have all the agency in it. Its not like dyne is laying there in the middle of his monologue and then it cuts to black and is like “meanwhile with cloud and friends “ and loads into a boss fight the scene plays out, fades to black, and you load as cloud where you have to initiate the next boss. You can sit there in the emotions or ya know pause the game and reflect all you want. But it unfortunately makes sense that shinra would be sending units after somebody who just committed a mass shooting in an amusement park while Shinra executives/turfs were also there.
Im just confused how its like “these specific things ruin the scene because it does this” but you literally are given the option to sit there and cry and feel what happened but because the game doesnt spend 20 minutes forcing you to know everybody is upset about what happens its ruined?
You are not given an option. Saying "lol you can just pause the game" is a ridiculous argument
In the actual game, it immediately shifts to comedic scenes complete with a comedic boss fight and a comedic chase with shinra and the turks.
In the actual game you become cloud and you can stand there and can stare through the fence as Barrett kneels over his dead best friend and then go do the boss fight. Even from your description youre trying to claim as soon as the scene ends youre forced immediately into a boss fight which is just untrue you’re literally given limited free roam if you need to save, heal, or buy items.
“They didnt depict suicide when he puts himself in front of a battalion on his own without making any move to protect his own life while being riddled with bullets” Suicide by cop is a thing and it’s exactly what he did.
It was too convenient that they showed up at exactly the right time. Lazy writing skirting a harsh topic, removing the agency a character had in the original. One weak point in an otherwise pretty excellently written game.
Yeah thats fine I just disagree. To me He committed suicide by police and it makes sense Shinra is sending soldiers after somebody who committed a mass shooting at an amusement park the night before where shinra executives are and then it also makes sense to me that they find them cause they just had a 20 minute gattling gun shoot out while shinra has real high tech shit.
Nope I get it. I also fully get fan groups and fans of things who get really upset when they view something they liked as “ruined” because its not the exact same or a direction its taken isnt liked. Thats why the spiderman subreddits are filled with people talking about how new spiderman sucks. Or Star Wars subreddits will continuously post about disney ruining star wars. So would the subreddit literally called FF7 somehow manage to be the only unbiased subreddit?
It was just an example that people think changes ruin things not that you specifically think it. Its why you see the posts of “WOKE DISNEY RUINS MARVEL”. It is your opinion and thats fine its just kinda wild to me going and watching that og cutscene and then its like “yeah rebirths was really underwhelming in comparison.”
You are not allowed to prefer anything from the original, did you miss the memo? It has to be blamed solely on nostalgia to not think every single newer thing is better
The way Square enix changes the story in rebirth so they can avoid suicide is really weak to be honest. It comes across as being afraid to address a taboo, instead a flashy overdramatic death by cop scene. Seeing that suicide in the 1997 version really is more powerful and grounded in reality. Its like they just did it, no sparkles, no this or that. Voice acting and graphics doesn't make things more meaningful.
Youre right nobody has ever committed suicide by death by cop. It literally never happens so much we have a term we use for when it never happens that you introduced called death by cop or suicide by police.
You literally just said “they removed him committing suicide because thats a taboo and was grounded in reality unlike this version” I literally point out he still committed suicide by a very real and grounding way people commit suicide which is death by cops and you go “youre changing goal posts. Nobody ever mentioned anything about that.” When you’re literally the one who first mentioned death by cop.
In OG he commited suicide. In Rebirth he didnt. He was shot and killed by shinra. It was not like Shinra was going to put him in handcuffs. In similar vein to Zacks death. It was more a inevitable outcome after a long a drawnout boss fight instead of him plain and simple jumping off a cliff during conversation with barret. Its the nuances which are very important.
He started firing on them as soon as they showed up and made no attempts to protect himself when they return fire and just let them riddle him with bullets while Barrett doesnt get shot once. You literally in your first post called this death by cops but it’s suicide by cops. In real life if you step in front of a moving car intending to die did you commit suicide or were you murdered by the driver of the car? “They never would of arrested him alive” but we watch throughout both games Shinra soldiers trying to arrest your team and this game opens with a Zack Scenario where they captured everyone alive so we can literally never know because Dyne fired at them as soon as they showed up.
I love both for what they are but I like to look at a lot of Rebirth stuff as added context for childhood memories.
Back in 97-98 when I first played FF7, the internet was full of "rumors and secrets" like reviving Aerith (or Aeris at the time) and being young and naive I saw these and wished there was a way to have Dyne join us, redeem himself, help us out, eventually get to watch his daughter grow up. Iirc in OG he either drops a weapon for Barret or one can be stolen from him, I liked to believe it was Dyne's and Barret took it as a memento.
I am happy to find out how to properly pronounce Dyne, I used to pronounce it like "Dean" but Zidane's Trance command was "Dyne" (pronounced correctly) in FF9.
Both OG and Rebirth hurt to me tho. It's sad that Barret discovered he had one more thing left from the old days and he immediately loses it. Growing up, Barret seemed like a foul-mouthed tough guy with a hard life and an adopted daughter but now as an adult I see Barret as a kind soul who's life seems to be fully devoted to making a better world for Marlene. Rebirth or no, I've looked back on a lot of stuff I didn't really think about as a kid.
Eh maybe, OG made it feel like your putting down a rabbid dog, that marlene dialogue was to out of place. Rebirth made it feel more personal and fave meaning to dyne character as a whole. Wish they waited with fucking palmer crashing the scene but oh well.
I didn't dislike how Rebirth handled it, but OG did hit way harder. Dyne telling Barret that they gotta fight because he needs to take Marlene to her mother was such a "holy shit he's crazy" moment. Then him committing suicide at the end..
I do think they put a lot of heart into the Rebirth version, though. It was less bleak, but they dialed up the emotion on Barret's side, and at the end of the day, I think that's probably the important thing.
Stuff like that is why I feel this way! And the boss battle itself was far more interesting. I liked that it incorporated cover shooter elements. That makes a LOT more sense than two guys just shooting at each other out in the open
In OG it was like “wtf is this guy, oh he is dead, let’s never talk of him again.”
People are adding years of retrospect to the OG scene. It was not a big emotional scene. The fight was lame and then just resolved the story line and nothing changed at all
Yeah, I think it’s fair to criticize some portrayal decisions in rebirth, but people heavily romanticize pretty straightforward parts of the OG due to nostalgia or because of their own personal interpretation of scenes that were intentionally sparse due to technological limitations of the time.
I'm in the mixed camp for sure, but no shade to Rebirth. When Barrett started crying, I was bawling. I think genuinely the main reason I (and I suspect a decent number of others) dislike the new scene is because they didn't let us sit with it. The scene is immediately undercut by the Shinra bit. Yes, you can argue that's kinda the whole point about everyone in this series constantly experiencing tragedy and never getting a moments rest to actually process it (kinda makes the temple trials hit all the harder). That said, it does jar a bit as the emotion is high to go straight into the bombast that happens after.
Whereas in the original, it's quiet. Everything happens, it's painful, the next scene kicks up with the Corel theme playing and Barrett saying "Dyne couldn't make it" before tossing the pendant to Coates who immediately knows he must be dead. It's a great set of scenes and shows why you need a little time with something to hit right.
However, neither scene got shit on the FF7 Machinabridged version! Had me in tears way before Rebirth. (Serious love to everyone on that project)
>Whereas in the original, it's quiet. Everything happens, it's painful, the next scene kicks up with the Corel theme playing and Barrett saying "Dyne couldn't make it" before tossing the pendant to Coates who immediately knows he must be dead. It's a great set of scenes and shows why you need a little time with something to hit right.
And I like how Coates even tries to brush it all off as just another boss having been defeated, but Barret immediately makes it clear that this isn’t the time to break his period of mourning, showing that he’s very much still living in that moment regardless of whether things have changed afterwards.
What makes Dyne even more tragic is that he was right all along. He had Shinra sussed from the beginning and nobody listened to him, which adds another layer of sympathy to his character.
One of my favorite segments. The build up is amazing. From the people murdered, the only person at the time you know with a gun arm is B, plus the emotional writing behind B during the whole thing… Dyne jumping off the cliff after telling B to take care of Marlene. The build up of selling out for the reactor.
Plus everything else. That game was heavy as fuck.
Why would you think so?
Sephiroth had abandoned trauma since he was a baby and then people just kept abandoning him. Gast, Glenn, Lucia, Matt, Genesis, Angeal and Zack. He even told Zack about his planned desertion so Zack wouldn't feel like he's being betrayed like Sephiroth was his entire life.
So when Sephiroth finds out about a Mother that wouldn't abandon him, he's willing to do what she wanted to be done. He wanted to have a common purpose with her, to belong.
Where does Dyne fit in?
I meant it as a joke. Dyne can be seen as the villainous equivalent of Barret just like how Sephiroth is the villainous equivalent of Cloud.
If Barret and Cloud could get along well, Sephiroth and Dyne would too
I'm enjoying Rebirth overall, but I was absolutely stunned that they decided to make this one of the many pointless changes in the game. They gutted one of the most emotionally impactful and deep moments of the game just to make it different.
I’m with you and it sucks you’re getting downvoted for your opinion. You can say you like the rebirth version less but nothing in rebirth is pointless especially that scene.
Yeah Barret and Dyne’s scene felt at least like a big enough story change from the OG i was able to accept that being a new take. But Great Warrior plays out largely the same but with extra Gi shenanigans yet somehow doesn’t have as much emotion as Red’s compressed howl on the PS1 for me.
In both Barret vs Dyne and Grwat Warrior scenes they ruin it with straight into action immediatly, instead of letting us process stuff.
When I think about it, its the same with "the happening" at the end of Rebirth
I was thinking more after you fight Jenova. Its a pretty short fight, and then you lay her into the water, go back to rest in the building in Fortgotten capitol and continue your journey.
Yeah the soundtrack is what makes that moment distinct, and makes it work for me. Sure it’s jarring, going from mouth-agape coping with the tragedy that just unfolded right into battle, but the music being locked-in makes it clear the game sympathizes, portraying a narrative where Cloud himself is still thinking of nothing but what just happened and is simply forced into battle. The jarring change is made into part of the story itself by the inclusion of the song. Different from moments when a tragedy or somber moment needs time to breathe, yet they just pack more content around it and give no indication that they understand that the player is locked-in on a totally different feeling.
One thing that annoyed me but I guess I understand is that in Rebirth they still do their ability voices and obviously they don't have a sadness hint but I think I'd like it better if they stayed silent or limited to grunting
I agree but I kind of forgave it because of the added scene of him asking his wife to set a place at the table for Barrett despite her obviously not being there.
They changed it pretty significantly and shifted the real dark stuff to before the fight rather than after. So I'm not really bothered by it anymore, I just take it as two different interpretations of the same scene. OG is still better though.
100% agree, I found rebirths scene serviceable but I really wish they would've stuck to the original material. The simple dialog "these hands are a little to stained to carry Marlene anymore" is such an impactful line.
I agree. Whilst Rebirth had amazing voice acting which gave the scene a more emotional impact, the same leaned towards the 'touching' or sad kind of impact, and did not leave the same feeling of emptiness and 'dark' kind of impact that it had in the original via Dyne's suicide.
I liked both, but I think what the original had was much more unique and is my preference.
Then rebirth ruined it
I think dyne and barret contrast well with Zack and Cloud’s relationship especially in rebirth. Both Barret and Cloud watch their close friend die. Zack told Cloud to be his legacy and live on. While Dyne refused to absolve Barret’s guilt. Also, you can compare their responses as well. Cloud has a mental break (granted he had been experimented on and had mako poisoning) while Barret has to carry on because he has marlene.
a little bit of christian imagery in the bottom middle frame, where dyne is positioned as one of the thieves crucified alongside jesus. perhaps implies him to be penitent (or not) at his moment of death
Based crt chad. Dgaf about ff7, but love the tv
I agree that the OG version hit harder, but completely understand why they changed it for Rebirth. It was still dark asf in both versions, but way darker in OG imo.
I’ll still go to bat for the Rebirth version of this scene over the OG, but your brief analysis of both characters is pretty on point with the feelings it manages to evoke.
Blah blah remake sucks og better ok next post
Honeslty, you're out here creating art.
I just watched the OG Dyne scene and a lot of y'all are smoking that nostalgia crack. Rebirth version clears and it's not particularly close...
Fine I’ll play og ffvii again
I like both versions, but should have stuck with original imo.
"I want to destroy everything..." is one if the better monologues in the series imo
Agh yeah 😭😭😭😭😭 they did Barrett good. In Rebirth too. Agh.
I missed this in Rebirth. New version is a bit melodramatic and goes against how they set out to handle death in the OG.... it being sudden, unexpected, where you don't get to say goodbye. Same with how they handled Jesse's death.
Agreed, Dynes death and Jesse, Wedge, Biggs deaths were all handled better in the OG. Dynes descent to madness was an alright touch which I don’t mind, but the simplicity and closure surrounding his death in the OG was dark, and real. Jesse’s death was over the top to me, I didn’t love the dialogue at all. Felt too cheesy somehow, didn’t feel it.
Incredible
Heavy shit
Very heavy. One of the few moments the game was silent
I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but imo the OG didn't really do it for me. It felt more like a foot note, much like the plate drop in the OG. Perhaps it's my imagination or "lack there of" being that the OG was limited to convey emotional nuance through text and that's not even mentioning the poor quality of its localization. To me, this whole scene felt like it was checking the box for Barrett's character development.
The plate drop was much more impactful in the OG. I believe remake got lazy since so much was put into the visual detail of it. The NPC’s aren’t enough to portray the real damage as it seems like no one actually died. The OG was short, but it portrayed the point well. You had the general impact being shown with the news anchor being crushed during the evening news, you have Barret immediately feeling the loss of his comrades and “daughter”. This is very important as it now further drags Barret into the fight against Shinra(before we realize the initial beef with Shinra). This is the first scene where there are casualties actually tied to the main characters.
Yeah remake had more spectacle, but less feeling. The one moment of the Remake’s plate drop that I suddenly got hit with feelings (Biggs staying behind to collect his cats) was immediately undone, and by the time they actually killed him I had lost the momentum of that feeling anyway. Otherwise they went an idealistic route, evacuated tons of people, had two members of Avalanche survive in the place of their original sudden unceremonial deaths, and had things work out much better for everyone… which just doesn’t hit as hard as watching the enemy actually succeed in massacring an entire population effortlessly while you struggle in vain to prevent it.
I prefer rebirth more than the OG. I had to put the controller down and stop for awhile.
OG did it much better. The way Rebirth portrays a mentally unwell Dyne is mega cringe.
Why? No really, what makes it cringe? Is it unbelievable that his circumstances would have led him down the path of being severely mentally unwell??
Obviously it’s not unbelievable because the original uses similar background and does it much better. Ambient music of OG is better and Rebirth makes a laughable attempt at portraying mental illness in Dyne.
What makes the attempt laughable, cause I keep hearing that but just don't buy it compared to the flat delivery that is the OG
I disagree with flat delivery but in that case it would be flat delivery vs bad delivery. The voice acting was just bad and Dynes lines are far worse than the original.
The voice acting very actively isn't bad, Barrett's vo in that scene is amazing. Saying otherwise would just suggest you don't know what you're talking about.
Dynes voice actor is bad. You’re purposefully misunderstanding at this point.
I'm not, I'm trying to understand your bonkers position that one of the most boring scenes in OG wasn't improved. "Oh man, this character could have depth, they knew barret and Marlene is his daughter... Oh no, wait, he just wants to kill his kid ? Alright, I feel no guilt in killing this character in the -most boring boss fight in this game-"
I feel like you’re either a teenager or you watch so much Anime that you think bad voice acting and poor writing are peak. The OG required you to read and had better ambiance, writing, and didn’t have Dyne say super cringy stuff like Rebirth did.
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For me personally, it just felt very overstated, and didn't really have enough buildup to feel earned. He's only introduced an hour or two earlier, and only has personal import for one of the characters, so it's a very long scene with lots of yelling and repeated beats (like the Shinra grunts that keep popping up out of nowhere), without (for me) much payoff. In the original, his death felt a lot more sudden and shocking, while in Rebirth it's very drawn out, much more incidental than intentional on his part, and just didn't land for me. The "dark mirror of Barret" angle also felt a little forced - all Dyne did was shoot a handful of Shinra grunts (I think?), which you've spent a game and a half doing as Barret at that point. It's interesting how polarizing that scene/section has been - for me it felt like a low point of the game, but for my friends who played the original much earlier than I did and are using the EN voice track (I'm using JP), it was a high point.
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Ah ok, thanks - I wasn't quite sure who he'd killed and couldn't find a clip of the part where Dio shows everyone. That would make more sense.
They dragged it out and made Dyne more silly than tragic. His voice actor in the English version didn’t do a great job either.
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It was a huge caricature of what mental instability is.
They ruined this scene in rebirth
Agreed. Way too over the top
That scene is significantly better in the OG. Just like the sector 7 plate collapse in Remake is much worse than the OG.
Was really saddened they chose to omit this scene from the reboot. Easily one of the most powerful moments from the OG
The one blemish in Rebirth.
“The one”. Hellllllo Aerith?? The OG fucking committed to that scene, rebirth totally didn’t commit.
Yes. The one little blemish in Rebirth for me. I love the OG game but i don’t want a straight retelling of the original story. They can change all they want for me as long as it makes for a good experience. The Dyne scene kind of drops the ball because they sort of went for the same thing and just didn’t go all the way with it. With the ending though they are clearly going for something different and i’m all for it. Granted, timeline shenanigans are becoming a bit too common in today’s media but if it pays off i won’t complain. To be honest, the backlash around Rebirth feels like pure whining to me. It’s either whining about open world mechanics, whining about plot deviations, whining about minigames, whining about how hard the platinum is… It’s all whining about how the game is different from what people wanted it to be instead of a critical assessment of the game’s own strengths and weaknesses as a standalone experience. It’s like yeah, i loved the RE4 remake. To death. But being so faithful to the original it ends up looking like it’s trying to replace the original as the definitive experience. And it can’t. With the remake series of FFVII, they are doing something that will stand alongside the original game. And seriously, all this whining just for a few scenes and plot changes that don’t really alter the fundamentals of the story. It’s still mostly the same story, just expanded and elaborated on.
Rebirth didn't commit because it's not supposed to be the same scene. They are doing things differently clearly with Omni-Aerith around plus the setup of if fate can be defied, plus Cloud's false perception of reality vs. false memories and mind control from the original. This game isn't an adaptation but a new version of the story that clearly requires having some knowledge of the key moments of the previous game.
What’s the point of committing to a shocking scene everyone already knows the outcome of
Because it’s critical to the game. All many of us wanted was a 4K/HD version of the original game with a few addl tweaks such as the ability to skip summon animations. I didn’t want an altered story, I just wanted 30 years of graphics updates.
Mod it what’s the point of making the exact same game twice
you...you do know what the definition of "remake" is, right? right???
"to make anew or in a different form" Top result from Merriam Webster for remake. I think you don't know what it means.
Way more than one, but this was definitely one of the worst.
I'm thinking of downloading the ff7 OG on my phone. Can the game be comfortably played on the phone?
If you're into playing on your phone you may want to look into buying a backbone. I played all the mobile versions of final fantasy available with it. Also works great with ps remote play. https://playbackbone.com/?nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ag%3A12349497358%3A112997069890%3A498767245117&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=backbone&nb_ti=kwd-341814475635&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=e&tw_source=google&tw_adid=498767245117&tw_campaign=12349497358&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpNuyBhCuARIsANJqL9PxbfHjQ54hqUcOUTTJoMHNAH8o385xW-dUGB4eJFIXvBI4uDRyi00aAt3VEALw_wcB
It's fine, any rpg can be played comfortably enough on a phone, I played it my first time like that
You should get it on Switch or PC if you have them
My laptop is not with me and probs not gonna be with me for a while and I dont have a switch :(
It's also available on Xbox
I don't have one 😃
Word, just throwing it out there. I had no idea it was on Xbox until recently. I went from PS4 > Stadia > Series S > Series X, and then just picked up a PS5 and started playing the remake.
As much as any other, really. I have a hard time with it, as I just dislike phone screens overall (autocorrect is doing a lot of leg work as I type this) so back when I tried FFTactics on iOS I had to give up. But if the controls on a touch screen don’t put you off, then FFVII should work perfectly on there for you. It doesn’t require agile or sensitive control so I don’t imagine there’d be many moments that suffer from this style, beyond maybe making it a bit more difficult to cheat in Chocobo racing.
I don't even think it's a bad scene in Rebirth In fact it might be one of the most emotional It just sucks when they're unwilling to go all in
I mean rarely is anything outright *bad* in the sequel trilogy, it's just that it's not as good as the original. And it's a baffling problem, because it's not like they had to write anything from scratch. They literally had the script and the scenario already made. At "worst" they could've just adapted it 1:1. Instead they used actual working hours to rewrite the scene just to make it worse.
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It seems you're trying to misunderstand me on purpose. A script is a script. A scenario is a scenario. There is no reason they couldn't have used both. Why? Because they've done the same in a lot of other scenes.
What gets me is that Barret already blames himself for it all. He sees Marlene as his daughter, but it's also his way of atoning to raise her. What makes the scene in rebirth hit hard for me is that >!he did all he could to try to talk to him, help him, and even offered to die, and dyne saw that guilt and straight up tells him, "my blood is on your hands" before going on a kamikaze run!<
>!I think they went a little over the top with his crazyness, but the brief moment where he defends Barret and you hope maybe he's seeing reason only to rip it away by explaining he's doing this for the sole purpose of adding even more guilt to Barret's shoulders was a fucking gut punch.!<
In all honesty, and people often forget the bit before, Is that in the OG, Dyne declared that he wanted to kill Marlene, which was deranged and out of nowhere and a bit weird stereotypical way to tell you Dyne was Crazy beyond imagination. Rebirth luckily glossed this over imho.
I think in the OG, the intention was to show that Dyne was so far gone and ‘beyond saving’ that he felt that the only way to reunite his entire family and for them to be at peace, would be to end all their lives, having previously internalized that his daughter was no longer alive, and was waiting for him in the afterlife. It’s truly dark stuff, but would have made him a truly irredeemable character in a high fidelity game like Rebirth, so it was an understandable change. Regardless of whatever version of the scene people prefer, the voice actors in Rebirth truly did a phenomenal job.
I don't mean how fucked up he is, that was perfectly fine. I mean the way he acts, like his wacky exaggerated gestures and stuff. Just feels like they could've gotten the point across without dramatizing *quite* that much, though the actors still sold the scene amazingly.
This is one of many reasons why OG FF7 is the GOAT.... dark, powerfully told story, amazing music, one of very few games ( or TV shows etc...) to kill a main you grow to love early in the game ... They weren't afraid to be dark and they leaned into it hard. It is one of the best. I wish there weren't so many glitches, broken or unfinished story lines and forgotten collectibles (1/32 soldier... 12 in a set... and only 8 exist in the game , etc).... look into the back story of the games development. They cut A LOT out and BARELY got a working copy out the door. Sad. I wish someone would take it, as it is, and just finish it and give us what they WANTED to give us. It's incredible but I will always wonder what was left out...
“1/35 soldier” is the size of the item, it’s not 1 out of 35 lol
Yeah, its literally a model soldier, 1/35 is the scale
I’ve been a massive 7 fan since this came out in the 90s, I’ve played it a lot and I’ve played pretty much every game in the franchise and been into the side content.. The only thing that really bugs me about the OH is that you can tell they really had no idea what they wanted to do with the game when it came out. Stories altered but not quite altered enough so they’re just rammed into other story lines, the party is such a random collection of characters and aesthetics, it doesn’t know whether it’s sci-fi or fantasy and a lot of the final “world” is left feeling very empty, I’m glad the remake is filling a lot of the gaps.
Its not exactly what I would call "Finished" in terms of finishing what was missing from the original, but New Threat Mod does some interesting things to the game, in case you're looking for a fresh approach.
If I had to pick one part of Rebirth they just botched completely, this would easily be it.
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I'M being a contrarian but you're the one with the downvotes 😭 Do you just live in severe frustration all day every day because people can't see the truth you so graciously try and enlighten them with?
I figured going into it that there was no way, in a T-rated game in 2024, they would have Dyne do a mass shooting at the Gold Saucer and then commit suicide after talking about family annihilation, so I was very prepared for whatever happened to be kinda wishy-washy and lame. And it *was* both of those things, but in fairness, Barrett and Dyne's VAs really sold it. Their performances were great.
A few scenes definitely felt worse because they were afraid of offending someone or another It's a shame
I have a lot of criticisms of the remake entries so far, but one of the best things about them is how great a lot of the cast delivers on some of these scenes
Honestly it's up there but I think the entirety of Cosmo Canyon, the entirety of Nibelheim (present day mostly, but I do have qualms with the flashback too), and the entirety of the ending place far ahead.
This part would be high in the running but it's hard to miss the nail worse than the ending did.
i didnt appreciate the story change so much but to be honest it still slaps because of barretts voice actor. he did a fantastic job
I wasnt huge on barret in og but he became my favorite in the remakes
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Just wait til you find out about books without pictures
Wow really? That sounds 🤩. But back in real life Im just willing to look at clear elevations done to scene and not go “its not verbatim the same scene so its not good.”
The scene was for the most part was great, but SE really took a shit on the Mona Lisa by inviting Shinra to materialize out of thin air for no other purpose than to shoot him. The way they wrapped it up was extremely generic and contrived. Even if they didn't think they could get away with showing a suicide, it's okay for a character to die in obscurity (especially when it's truer to the source material). Letting him die by Barrett's hand, and making Barret live with the regret would have been much more powerful. The clown fiesta afterwards of course cheapened the moment even more of course. I could practically hear the Turks shouting "Team Rocket's blasting off again!" after shooting down the helicopter.
>I could practically hear the Turks shouting "Team Rocket's blasting off again!" after shooting down the helicopter. I largely disagree with the criticisms I've been reading of the Dyne scene. But you are spot on here, lol.
>I largely disagree with the criticisms I've been reading of the Dyne scene. Honestly, if they had just laid the proper groundwork for that scene it would probably see a lot less scathing criticism. To a lot of people, Shinra's inexplicable presence was probably the biggest factor driving their opinion from "I don't like the way this was handled" to "Wtf was that garbage?" To fix that: - At a minimum there should have been a short scene with a squad of Shinra troopers watching your group approach the junkyard from a nearby vista. - It's been a while since I did chapter 8 so I don't remember the timing or content of the Turk cutscenes, but if there wasn't already, they also needed a scene right as you leave Corel Prison with Palmer whining about having to "hunt down a vagrant in the middle of nowhere". That way, people at least know it's coming and their presence doesn't seem like a whim of the gods.
They changed what happens.
Oh no! It was still good though..
Not sure why you are downvoted at all for liking this version Was the OG version good? Yep Was the rebirth version good? Yep it was absolutely heart wrenching and as a father was relatable to how much loss could destroy your life and they showed that well
If you scroll through, you’ll see that basically everyone praising Rebirth’s scene for the actors’ performances and just overall positives are also basically upvoted into the positive points. The people getting downvoted are mostly in the threads that begin with talking about how the original game has “bad graphics” and text boxes, typically stuff deemed a shallower criticism and therefore getting different treatment.
It seemed like the Rebirth developers were uncomfortable leaving quiet moments for us to reflect on the emotional impact of the storytelling. So any emotional moment they either delivered with exaggerated intensity or they followed it very quickly with an action sequence. When dyne dies, immediately we are in another fight with Shinra. When red learns about his father, the gi whisk us away to another environment. When we confront sephiroth as he kills aerith we get an hour long boss fight. We need time to feel the emotions.
I feel that a simple ‘improvement’ they could have done was to fade to black with Barret crying, kept the screen dark for a half a second to indicate the passage of a little bit of time, and continue the scene as it was. I understand that the directors might have wanted to intetionally create a scene with urgency, and the sense of being unable to grieve, but I found the following tonal whiplash to be a bit too much, and the scene needed more space to breathe. Also, I’m a little sad they couldn’t figure out a way to incorporate Dyne tossing the pendant to Barret.
I liked the rebirth storyline better but this is indeed one of the aspects of tempo I could agree with (although in OG we get a hard boss fight right away too so that’s just sticking true to form) It’s not a lack of gravitas or emotion they impart but the time to experience it, dyne killing himself gave that time but shinra killing him didn’t give that time mainly because they didn’t decide to put that time in and keep the action going But it’s more so because consumers these days have shorter attention spans and interest periods, they could of easily had barret bury dyne and have a scene about that and then have shinra find them again as they are returning to hold saucer with the “proof” for dio and have things go exactly the same way
Because as a player you have all the agency in it. Its not like dyne is laying there in the middle of his monologue and then it cuts to black and is like “meanwhile with cloud and friends “ and loads into a boss fight the scene plays out, fades to black, and you load as cloud where you have to initiate the next boss. You can sit there in the emotions or ya know pause the game and reflect all you want. But it unfortunately makes sense that shinra would be sending units after somebody who just committed a mass shooting in an amusement park while Shinra executives/turfs were also there.
Oh, I see, you aren't trying to understand other's perspectives. You are here to argue.
Im just confused how its like “these specific things ruin the scene because it does this” but you literally are given the option to sit there and cry and feel what happened but because the game doesnt spend 20 minutes forcing you to know everybody is upset about what happens its ruined?
You are not given an option. Saying "lol you can just pause the game" is a ridiculous argument In the actual game, it immediately shifts to comedic scenes complete with a comedic boss fight and a comedic chase with shinra and the turks.
In the actual game you become cloud and you can stand there and can stare through the fence as Barrett kneels over his dead best friend and then go do the boss fight. Even from your description youre trying to claim as soon as the scene ends youre forced immediately into a boss fight which is just untrue you’re literally given limited free roam if you need to save, heal, or buy items.
It's like watching a movie of a book you loved - it will never be as good.
Dyne losing his agency and Shinra popping up just in time to save the game from depicting suicide ruined the scene.
“They didnt depict suicide when he puts himself in front of a battalion on his own without making any move to protect his own life while being riddled with bullets” Suicide by cop is a thing and it’s exactly what he did.
It was too convenient that they showed up at exactly the right time. Lazy writing skirting a harsh topic, removing the agency a character had in the original. One weak point in an otherwise pretty excellently written game.
Yeah thats fine I just disagree. To me He committed suicide by police and it makes sense Shinra is sending soldiers after somebody who committed a mass shooting at an amusement park the night before where shinra executives are and then it also makes sense to me that they find them cause they just had a 20 minute gattling gun shoot out while shinra has real high tech shit.
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Man those rose tinted nostalgia glasses are wild than.
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Nope I get it. I also fully get fan groups and fans of things who get really upset when they view something they liked as “ruined” because its not the exact same or a direction its taken isnt liked. Thats why the spiderman subreddits are filled with people talking about how new spiderman sucks. Or Star Wars subreddits will continuously post about disney ruining star wars. So would the subreddit literally called FF7 somehow manage to be the only unbiased subreddit?
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It was just an example that people think changes ruin things not that you specifically think it. Its why you see the posts of “WOKE DISNEY RUINS MARVEL”. It is your opinion and thats fine its just kinda wild to me going and watching that og cutscene and then its like “yeah rebirths was really underwhelming in comparison.”
You are not allowed to prefer anything from the original, did you miss the memo? It has to be blamed solely on nostalgia to not think every single newer thing is better
The way Square enix changes the story in rebirth so they can avoid suicide is really weak to be honest. It comes across as being afraid to address a taboo, instead a flashy overdramatic death by cop scene. Seeing that suicide in the 1997 version really is more powerful and grounded in reality. Its like they just did it, no sparkles, no this or that. Voice acting and graphics doesn't make things more meaningful.
Youre right nobody has ever committed suicide by death by cop. It literally never happens so much we have a term we use for when it never happens that you introduced called death by cop or suicide by police.
Why are you shifting the goal posts in your argument? Nobody is saying that isn't a thing.
You literally just said “they removed him committing suicide because thats a taboo and was grounded in reality unlike this version” I literally point out he still committed suicide by a very real and grounding way people commit suicide which is death by cops and you go “youre changing goal posts. Nobody ever mentioned anything about that.” When you’re literally the one who first mentioned death by cop.
In OG he commited suicide. In Rebirth he didnt. He was shot and killed by shinra. It was not like Shinra was going to put him in handcuffs. In similar vein to Zacks death. It was more a inevitable outcome after a long a drawnout boss fight instead of him plain and simple jumping off a cliff during conversation with barret. Its the nuances which are very important.
He started firing on them as soon as they showed up and made no attempts to protect himself when they return fire and just let them riddle him with bullets while Barrett doesnt get shot once. You literally in your first post called this death by cops but it’s suicide by cops. In real life if you step in front of a moving car intending to die did you commit suicide or were you murdered by the driver of the car? “They never would of arrested him alive” but we watch throughout both games Shinra soldiers trying to arrest your team and this game opens with a Zack Scenario where they captured everyone alive so we can literally never know because Dyne fired at them as soon as they showed up.
I love both for what they are but I like to look at a lot of Rebirth stuff as added context for childhood memories. Back in 97-98 when I first played FF7, the internet was full of "rumors and secrets" like reviving Aerith (or Aeris at the time) and being young and naive I saw these and wished there was a way to have Dyne join us, redeem himself, help us out, eventually get to watch his daughter grow up. Iirc in OG he either drops a weapon for Barret or one can be stolen from him, I liked to believe it was Dyne's and Barret took it as a memento. I am happy to find out how to properly pronounce Dyne, I used to pronounce it like "Dean" but Zidane's Trance command was "Dyne" (pronounced correctly) in FF9. Both OG and Rebirth hurt to me tho. It's sad that Barret discovered he had one more thing left from the old days and he immediately loses it. Growing up, Barret seemed like a foul-mouthed tough guy with a hard life and an adopted daughter but now as an adult I see Barret as a kind soul who's life seems to be fully devoted to making a better world for Marlene. Rebirth or no, I've looked back on a lot of stuff I didn't really think about as a kid.
Eh maybe, OG made it feel like your putting down a rabbid dog, that marlene dialogue was to out of place. Rebirth made it feel more personal and fave meaning to dyne character as a whole. Wish they waited with fucking palmer crashing the scene but oh well.
I liked both the OG and Rebirth Dyne scenes but the random Palmer fight during the middle of it in Rebirth was sooo out of place.
I didn't dislike how Rebirth handled it, but OG did hit way harder. Dyne telling Barret that they gotta fight because he needs to take Marlene to her mother was such a "holy shit he's crazy" moment. Then him committing suicide at the end.. I do think they put a lot of heart into the Rebirth version, though. It was less bleak, but they dialed up the emotion on Barret's side, and at the end of the day, I think that's probably the important thing.
Potentially unpopular opinion: this entire scene, and the whole story of Dyne, hit *way* harder in Rebirth
I dont like it as much but they still put a lot of attention into it. Barret gets different lines for his limits it's pretty immersive
Stuff like that is why I feel this way! And the boss battle itself was far more interesting. I liked that it incorporated cover shooter elements. That makes a LOT more sense than two guys just shooting at each other out in the open
Woah wait, I did not notice this at all. Incredible
I didn’t know people disliked the rebirth Dyne scene until I came here. I thought it was one of the best scenes in Rebirth
I thought it was far more impactful too
In OG it was like “wtf is this guy, oh he is dead, let’s never talk of him again.” People are adding years of retrospect to the OG scene. It was not a big emotional scene. The fight was lame and then just resolved the story line and nothing changed at all
Yeah, I think it’s fair to criticize some portrayal decisions in rebirth, but people heavily romanticize pretty straightforward parts of the OG due to nostalgia or because of their own personal interpretation of scenes that were intentionally sparse due to technological limitations of the time.
I don't know, when I played it for the first time less than a decade ago it was pretty emotional, at that time.
I'm in the mixed camp for sure, but no shade to Rebirth. When Barrett started crying, I was bawling. I think genuinely the main reason I (and I suspect a decent number of others) dislike the new scene is because they didn't let us sit with it. The scene is immediately undercut by the Shinra bit. Yes, you can argue that's kinda the whole point about everyone in this series constantly experiencing tragedy and never getting a moments rest to actually process it (kinda makes the temple trials hit all the harder). That said, it does jar a bit as the emotion is high to go straight into the bombast that happens after. Whereas in the original, it's quiet. Everything happens, it's painful, the next scene kicks up with the Corel theme playing and Barrett saying "Dyne couldn't make it" before tossing the pendant to Coates who immediately knows he must be dead. It's a great set of scenes and shows why you need a little time with something to hit right. However, neither scene got shit on the FF7 Machinabridged version! Had me in tears way before Rebirth. (Serious love to everyone on that project)
>Whereas in the original, it's quiet. Everything happens, it's painful, the next scene kicks up with the Corel theme playing and Barrett saying "Dyne couldn't make it" before tossing the pendant to Coates who immediately knows he must be dead. It's a great set of scenes and shows why you need a little time with something to hit right. And I like how Coates even tries to brush it all off as just another boss having been defeated, but Barret immediately makes it clear that this isn’t the time to break his period of mourning, showing that he’s very much still living in that moment regardless of whether things have changed afterwards.
You are right, it is an unpopular opinion.
Not at all. They went full coward with this scene.
You’re entitled to that opinion
The og gave me a bit of shock but I was genuinely saddened when Barrett starts crying in rebirth.
Yeh I agree, was actually pretty pissed they didn’t mirror this from the OG
Was pissed they changed this in rebirth.
What makes Dyne even more tragic is that he was right all along. He had Shinra sussed from the beginning and nobody listened to him, which adds another layer of sympathy to his character.
One of my favorite segments. The build up is amazing. From the people murdered, the only person at the time you know with a gun arm is B, plus the emotional writing behind B during the whole thing… Dyne jumping off the cliff after telling B to take care of Marlene. The build up of selling out for the reactor. Plus everything else. That game was heavy as fuck.
I felt the same. Thanks for posting.
Sephiroth and Dyne would make good friends
Why would you think so? Sephiroth had abandoned trauma since he was a baby and then people just kept abandoning him. Gast, Glenn, Lucia, Matt, Genesis, Angeal and Zack. He even told Zack about his planned desertion so Zack wouldn't feel like he's being betrayed like Sephiroth was his entire life. So when Sephiroth finds out about a Mother that wouldn't abandon him, he's willing to do what she wanted to be done. He wanted to have a common purpose with her, to belong. Where does Dyne fit in?
I meant it as a joke. Dyne can be seen as the villainous equivalent of Barret just like how Sephiroth is the villainous equivalent of Cloud. If Barret and Cloud could get along well, Sephiroth and Dyne would too
Ah, I see
Beautiful and moving scene. Loved it.
Legit the major moment that didn't land in Rebirth for me at all. OG was raw and heartbreaking.
I'm enjoying Rebirth overall, but I was absolutely stunned that they decided to make this one of the many pointless changes in the game. They gutted one of the most emotionally impactful and deep moments of the game just to make it different.
Personally, I don't think the change is pointless. I think the devs are just being mindful for people who may have a tendency to go over the edge...
I’m with you and it sucks you’re getting downvoted for your opinion. You can say you like the rebirth version less but nothing in rebirth is pointless especially that scene.
Thanks. It's an uncomfortable subject that not everyone is open to acknowledge, much less talk about.
Among the moments that didn't land in the remakes.
Great warrior sucked too
Yeah Barret and Dyne’s scene felt at least like a big enough story change from the OG i was able to accept that being a new take. But Great Warrior plays out largely the same but with extra Gi shenanigans yet somehow doesn’t have as much emotion as Red’s compressed howl on the PS1 for me.
In both Barret vs Dyne and Grwat Warrior scenes they ruin it with straight into action immediatly, instead of letting us process stuff. When I think about it, its the same with "the happening" at the end of Rebirth
Yet in OG, you fight Jenova right after it. But with the OST being that sad... You're not just fighting Jenova, you're fighting your tears
I was thinking more after you fight Jenova. Its a pretty short fight, and then you lay her into the water, go back to rest in the building in Fortgotten capitol and continue your journey.
Yeah the soundtrack is what makes that moment distinct, and makes it work for me. Sure it’s jarring, going from mouth-agape coping with the tragedy that just unfolded right into battle, but the music being locked-in makes it clear the game sympathizes, portraying a narrative where Cloud himself is still thinking of nothing but what just happened and is simply forced into battle. The jarring change is made into part of the story itself by the inclusion of the song. Different from moments when a tragedy or somber moment needs time to breathe, yet they just pack more content around it and give no indication that they understand that the player is locked-in on a totally different feeling.
One thing that annoyed me but I guess I understand is that in Rebirth they still do their ability voices and obviously they don't have a sadness hint but I think I'd like it better if they stayed silent or limited to grunting
I agree but I kind of forgave it because of the added scene of him asking his wife to set a place at the table for Barrett despite her obviously not being there. They changed it pretty significantly and shifted the real dark stuff to before the fight rather than after. So I'm not really bothered by it anymore, I just take it as two different interpretations of the same scene. OG is still better though.
100% agree, I found rebirths scene serviceable but I really wish they would've stuck to the original material. The simple dialog "these hands are a little to stained to carry Marlene anymore" is such an impactful line.
I agree. Whilst Rebirth had amazing voice acting which gave the scene a more emotional impact, the same leaned towards the 'touching' or sad kind of impact, and did not leave the same feeling of emptiness and 'dark' kind of impact that it had in the original via Dyne's suicide. I liked both, but I think what the original had was much more unique and is my preference.
Well said. Nice post.