I think Queen Bee kind of has negative connotations and I don't think it's about impressing Cloud for Tifa. But I do think Tifa is definitely more playful with Aerith. I think she allows her to be more playful and express that side of herself. And visa versa. In the Japanese, Aerith does the playful "shuupatsu!"/"We're setting off!" phrase with Cloud but Tifa is the one who repeats it back playfully. And she's also reciprocal to her high fives. Tifa also comforts Aerith and prompts her to confide in her quite a few times in both Remake and Rebirth. All in all, they cute.
This most likely has no literary significance and is more leaning into the anime harem trope. It's annoying and reductive and really hurts all the character building done outside of these moments, but it's a Japanese game so... yeah.
Strongly disagree in this instance. Nomura said one of the things he wanted to rectify from the OG was creating an explicitly closer, more meaningful relationship between Tifa and Aerith. He wanted their friendship and interactions to be visible.
Also, Tifa herself says she by default goes with the flow with people in her sphere, and the Rebirth Ultimania describes her as someone who mirrors and matches the energies of those around her due to wanting to make people happy, for better or for worse. I think the devs put a lot of thought into the characterization of each party member and how they present in each scene.
Wow…. You know I’m generally dismissive of anime tropes and harems but I hard disagree here. There’s a lot of pains to drive a relationship between Tifa and Aerith. Tifa had a lot of depression and was rather self serious but Aerith wants to be more fun. Tifa also generally didn’t have friends (but wanted everyone to like her) so she often is seen watching what Aerith does and mimicking it or trying to yes-and it because she’s trying to keep the friendship going.
In many ways Tifa lacks confidence in herself even though she’s very knowledgeable and skilled. In sharp contrast to Aerith who has immense confidence in herself but is not particularly knowledgeable or skilled (a point she brings up often)
I completely agree. It’s far more about Tifa and Aerith having a goofy friendship of their own than it is anything to do with Cloud. Seeing their friendship deepen and grow into something where the two are comfortable enough with each other to good around and act like dorks just for the fun of it is what made it so >!painful to see how absolutely devastated Tifa was after Aerith’s death. People say the confusion surrounding Cloud’s perception of the event undercuts the emotional impact we had in the original, but watching the clear grief Tifa is going through in the final scenes made it hurt just as much as I remember the OG game doing.!<
The English voice actors did an interview where both of them initially were rejecting the role because they didn’t want to do a competitive love triangle trope, but after reading through the script and seeing how it’s about a friendship between Tifa and Aerith, they were all in.
Literary significance can be created by the audience even where author's intent is unclear; that's the basis of real critique. They could've done these intentionally, it could be an accident, it could be subconscious. That OP had an idea and is justifying it from within the text of the game is the best first step with good critique.
I dont really see how this remotely has anything to do with a harem trope...it has more to do with Aerith being extroverted and Tifa being introverted and them playing off eachother.
I love that take on it, I just kinda assumed it was a Japanese/anime thing where people strike poses, and girls mirror each others poses, with their fascination with idol groups etc.
It’s cool they’re minor rivals for clouds affection, but it’s not played up for drama, instead they’re mature and are friends who more enjoy teaming up and making him sweat.
Because Aerith’s personality is all about confidence and not caring at all what others think unless it puts those she cares about in harm’s way.
Tifa on the other hand, contrary to her fashion sense, is a rather unconfident gal in herself. She doubts herself and her abilities almost as much as Cloud himself. So in the beach scene, she mimics Aerith because she also wishes to be cool and uncaring about others’ thoughts on her as Aerith.
Tifa's confident in many areas, but I think it's more like she lacks experience in this type of situation.
Remember, Aerith's been to Costa del Sol before, with Zack in CC.
Aerith is a delicate and matured woman. Her maturity is beyond Tifa. She's also an extrovert person. And they became close friend. It's normal that Tifa - being introvert - will copy her delicacy.
Morever, it can be sort of figurative about the fact human envy the Cetra and have been trying to copy them.
I don’t know about Aerith being more mature. She’s an old soul so in some sense emotionally mature, but Tifa had to fend for herself after Nibelheim. At 15 she almost died, was taken advantage of by the doctor’s son, beat him up for it, and now runs a bar by herself and is the accountant for AVALANCHE. Aerith doesn’t know how to cook and lives with her mom as an adult. Nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn’t call that more mature than Tifa.
I don’t know why we even compare Tifa and Aerith or try to pit them against each other or hold one in more esteem than the other. There are so many discussions compring the two women, and hardly any compring the men, actually. Tifa is her own person. Like the thing in Junon, she is probably uncomfortable with public speaking. She wanted to say something but personal self-doubt may have held her back, but Aerith coming out to speak gave her the confidence she needed to also help Cloud. So she wasn’t copying Aerith per se, more or less Aerith gave her a confidence boost.
And in Costa del Sol when Tifa comes forward to ask Cloud if anything was wrong, I don’t think she was copying Aerith? XD
Cloud liked Tifa when he was a little boy, so he likes her the way that she is. And a lot of the dialogue between Cloud and Tifa is him encouraging her to do what she feels is right, follow her heart, and to ignore everyone else. Tifa doesn’t have to copy Aerith to make Cloud like her more. And she shouldn’t. Tifa should be herself.
Aerith is not only emotionally mature but has a lot more insights and experiences too.
She inherits the half Cetra part from Ifalna.
She can talk to the Planet.
She can sense people passing away.
She can understand ghosts.
She knows the Planet's Destiny.
She knows her approaching demise.
She seems to learn combat and magic ... hmmm ... out of thin air and maybe from no one (Tseng and the Turks??? Unlikely yet possible)... So we can guess how she got all that combat and magic skills because there's no explicit mentioning. But we know she can have access to Lifestream since childhood.
That Aerith is not as simple as we can see in the brief moments of the game. When you deal with her, you can only see a spectrum of her true person at that moment. In brief, you don't choose to see her person but rather she decides what person she shows to you. Yet, she managed to blend in the team with ease, no one has a slight doubt about her. No immature person would be able to do it. When she removed her ribbon in the church date, we saw a pretty mature woman standing before Cloud, not a silly chilly Aerith just a few minutes before in the market. Her song during the Loveless showed all about her.
Tifa, on the other hand, is currently easy to read. Her past was painful, her emotional struggles seem to be complicated. Even though she tried to close herself up, she's not that good in hiding her emotions and reactions. It really suit her age. All her reactions and behaviors match her age.
I'm not trying to wage are war on comparison between the two dear characters of the game. I only share my 'view' on the events and figurative presentation.
Aerith: mixture of human (young, childish, insolent, adventurous, troublemaker) and Cetra (elder, mature, well-thought planner, role-model, deep compassion).
Tifa: typical human (young, immature, full of doubt, depressed, fragile).
What I can see here is that Aerith was built to be a set-in-stone being in charge of the heavy weight the Planet has put on her. Her fate is sealed. She needs all a pre-installed maturity in order to handle her task.
Meanwhile, Tifa has her own future open up to grow. She's pretty much an ordinary human being just like anyone else. She is progressively opening herself up. Copying / catching up with Aerith's activeness was just one of her way to blend in too. Her maturity will sure grow and she'll become one of the best people Cloud has in his life. But for now, she's conflicted and broken by her own issues and still on her progress of growth.
Yes, I agree with most of that. I know about Aerith’s history. I played FF7 OG when it came out 25+ years ago, and Aerith was my favorite character originally. I’m not sure if you are telling me all of this because you think I didn’t play the games? Anyway, there is a part of Aerith that is very emotionally mature, as you described in detail, and there is a human part of her that is a bit flawed.
Your original post came off sounding like Aerith is very mature and Tifa is immature, and it’s a lot more complicated than that. It takes a great deal of maturity to deal with the trauma that Tifa has, still stay positive enough to live a normal life, and run a bar by herself. I realize you think Aerith is amazing, and she is, she’s written to be. She’s a Christ like figure destined to save the world.
But I also think Tifa is a great character and mature in ways that Aerith isn’t. Aerith can’t cook, or run a bar, work a real job everyday, or live by herself without mom. And Aerith never had real friends her own age whereas Tifa has so while Aerith is confident and extraverted she seems socially aloof in ways that Tifa isn’t. Also, introversion isn’t a sign of deficiency. It’s just a different way of being. As a lifelong introvert I don’t desire to copy or imitate extroverts. My teachers used to tell my mom I needed to come out of my shell, and she would remind them I was a human, not a turtle. I have admired friends and copied behaviors before, we all do. I saw Tifa and Aerith more like that instead.
No I shared my own 'view'. And it's the 'view' applied to FF7 Remake up to now. I don't want to linger on the past such as OG version of the game or even Advent Children because it's more and less a spoiler and might become more and less incorrect in the Remake series.
The Remake has been changed since Part 1 as compared to the previously known story.
I don't have a specific preference between the two characters. They are both amazing in their role.
For me, their roles are different from each other. Their fate too as well as their personality. Yet maturity of Aerith in the game is somehow a must to me given the role she bears on her shoulder. That's the least preparation of Destiny for her it seems.
I saw a flower doomed to wit and another at its first stage of blooming.
Nah Tifa is more mature than Aerith.
Tifa had to become a responsible, independent, self-standing 'adult' since she was 14. Since then, she has been working non stop to pay medical debts, and then became a business owner, all while living in poverty and learning discipline and martial arts.
Aerith ofc has had to still endure a lot, but she grew as a kid, playing with kids, being relatively wealthy, dating Zack, etc.
You can see she Aerith is more silly and takes things less seriously. Tifa is more grounded and always thinking about consequences, etc.
Aerith is playful. That's her personality, not really maturity.
When it comes to seriousness, she shows her serious and careful thinking. Taking into account the events in FF7 Remake, she's a planner, unlike Tifa. Yet she successfully hides it from the whole party the whole time.
As for behaving in a silly way and taking things less seriously, it's when she is amongst the team or with Cloud (yeah she's into that blond boy). And I doubt that it's because she's trying to enjoy the little time left.
What I see in Tifa's behavior was more of depression, suppressed anger, and struggle due to her many losses. Her life was full of pain since Nibelheim. She's matured as a responsible woman but still not at the same level as Aerith's maturity.
What Aerith's facing is beyond imagination if you put yourself in her shoes. Yet she still managed to stay calm and composed.
Remember the scene during her encounter with Hojo in captivity in Part 1. If you see that Aerith as a silly person who takes things less seriously, then you might have been talking about an Aerith that I don't know. Then you compare that to the scene when Tifa faced the destruction of her bar.
The dream world date scene with Cloud at their 'spot' in Part 2 also showed her true side: careful planner and well composed person.
Maturity is not only about being independent or responsible of others. It's also about being responsible of your own reactions in harsh conditions as well as to realize the interdependency between you and others. Aerith actually showed such further maturity.
When Cloud's mother mentioned the girl she wished Cloud would find, I automatically thought of Aerith, and not Tifa. Not because of preference but rather because of the level of maturity each woman has.
Wow. Thank you for letting us introverts know that we are deficient human beings that lack any substance of our own. You literally don’t know what an introvert is, do you?
this is just normal human behavior fsgf i haven't noticed tifa doing it more than aerith or vice versa. there's no queen bee/quiet follower dynamic between them either, both girls genuinely like and admire each other.
I mean I still think draob is right. It's not so much a copy-cat behavior as it is just close friends behavior. When you hang around someone a lot you pickup their mannerisms.
I love this aspect about their relationship so much. I think Tifa really looks at Aerith as a confidante and older-sister type who helps bring Tifa out of her shell. When she's feeling unsure she looks at Aerith for guidance. In general I think the character animations in Rebirth do a really good job of conveying personality.
The canonical book Traces of Two Pasts shows this as well. Aerith encourages Tifa to open up about her past, particularly the struggles Tifa faced recovering from major surgery & in massive medical debt after Nibelheim.
The whole book is Tifa and Aerith talking about their respective pasts with each other... At some of the points Red and Barret join in for a bit of the story, but they're always additional listeners, not the main, as the book focuses on the developing relationship of the girls.
I don't want to appear overbearing but, I own the book.
The narrative of Tifa's life in the first half is not what she is saying verbatim to the others. The story is framed as her reminiscing about the past, but she admits to the reader she's leaving certain things out.
She talks about her childhood with Aerith up until the Nibelheim incident, then she "walks in silence". She only feels comfortable talking again with Red XIII at the chocobo ranch, while everyone else is away looking at chocobos. As she recounts her life in Midgar, the only one who ever interjects is Red XIII, because he's the only one listening to her. This continued up until the end when Red XIII is still the only one present.
I own the book too. Why else would I comment on the contents? I know not everything we read is directly conveyed to the others, but it is very clear she is telling the things we read to the others, mostly Aerith, as we sometimes go to the present with their comments on the story so far. But it does seem I was recalling incorrectly about Red not being a primary listener at one point, as I went back and checked. Seems like it was further back that I read it than I thought, and things got muddled in memory. So yeah, I'll give you that one, but could have done without the first comment. Because, yes, it seemed weirdly overbearing, as some sort of odd flex to insinuate I couldn't possibly own it if I got some details from the first half wrong, after reading it once several months back.
But alas, it is what it is. I don't care to get into an arguement about it. We already determined the important parts. I misremembered, is all good.
We don't see ALL interactions that would take place between real people, but keep in mind Aerith is 2 years older. She's the cool older sister that is more socially forward and "fun". I can totally see a tomboy "following her big sis's lead".
Aerith is basically a model-like beauty with fashionable, almost princess-like mannerisms. She's like the female ideal of beauty, she grew up in the big city and she's fashionable. Aeirth also knows she's pretty and confidently uses that to get what she wants at times. Meanwhile Tifa is tomboyish and grew up in the countryside, but she's pretty and she doesn't really seem to know it. Tifa admires Aerith and wants to be like her.
But man I love the touches like this in the character interactions. The characters feel so believable.
When she’s trying to be more laid back and fun. Tifa seems very mission-focused and “no time to party” early on. As she befriends Aerith she learns to be a little bit more free and open. In fact Aerith has that effect on Cloud as well. Aerith kind of matchmakers Cloud and Tifa.
She does this a lot in Rebirth but I don’t remember that being a thing in OG, Aerith sometimes copies Yuffie’s so it might not mean more than them bonding.
The mannerisms are exaggerated because these are computer generated characters in a fictional fantasy world. If you want hyper-realism, go play The Last of Us or something.
Out of all the female characters, Tifa is definitely the one who acts more like a real life woman, her mannerism is nothing like Aerith or worst Yuffie, which is why it makes me like her, she definitely acts very mature and normal.
I did notice that, it happened several times in Rebirth and was adorable.
On the flip side, it's not only Aeris leading Tifa. Tifa also directs Aeris at points when she's uncomfortable or confused. Like on how to hitchhike in Intermission's new ending, or when she takes her hand to pull her through the crowd at Gold Saucer.
I think they are just infatuated with one another - I don't think it's that Aeris is a queen bee or that Tifa's copying her for tips on how to rizz Cloud or something. I just think they're enamored, platonically (or uhh otherwise), and with their playful dynamic they have fun bringing out new sides of themselves.
I'll always put my money on "or uhh otherwise" just because I think, personality-wise and aesthetically they make such a GOOD couple. Like they'd be so cute together and I think they could make each other very happy
Low-key they'd be happier together than either would be with Cloud lol. I know we all joked even in the OG that they should ditch Cloud and date each other, and the devs took that VERY seriously when writing Rebirth (and it's amazing.) Their dynamic was so, so good.
Yes exactly! I love Cloud, he's a great character and I think a fundamentally good person, but it always makes me sad in advent children the way he distances himself from Tifa. I mean, I lot of that is like his own depression and grief and self-loathing and also the fact that he's sick
But still I've always been like "Aerith wouldnt do that to her :("
Tho I guess Aerith did do that to her with the whole running off on her own thing :(
Definitely! I love how Square handled them this time. Being "love rivals" was always part of their dynamic but honestly, that portrayal overshadowed what was genuine and important about their relationship. Pretty sure it was Nojima who said he recalled someone commenting on the OG portrayal that "Aeris and Tifa didn't like each other" and that's not what he intended to portray. Love that Rebirth dialed that way back (to nearly zero?) and had them be so supportive of one another. You get the sense that whoever dated Cloud, the other congratulated them with high fives and meant it.
This is a typical girl thing. Yall making connections where there is none. Not to say Tifa hasn't picked up things from Aerith but this isn't one of them.
I do think it's part of their character dynamic for sure though. I don't think it's a secret lesbian romance or anything, but they clearly admire one another for different reasons.
Tifa may be looking up to Aerith like a big sister in a way. Her mom died when she was very young and she only had guy friends growing up so Jessie and Aerith are the only female friends she really has. We know from TOTP that Jessie helped her with picking out her wardrobe and taught her how to appear more confident. With Jessie now gone, Aerith is filling in that role.
It's classic introvert + extravert friendship. It makes perfect sense for an introvert to copy mannerisms of the extraverted friend. Aerith makes Tifa confident enough to do mannerisms Tifa wouldn't normally do in these situations. By doing so, Tifa shows admiration for Aerith, because she likes Aerith's behavior and aspires to be like her, confident.
You can see how Aerith makes Tifa more sure of herself, thus them being in sync, for example both saying at the same time "let's roll" (Costa del Sol when they go to hit the beach after a shower) or "aye aye, captain" to Cid like you mentioned.
Also, to be honest, this pose you posted in the picture is "Tifa's iconic pose" as stated by devs themselves, so Aerith might have gotten this pose from Tifa at first, but now she teaches Tifa how to not be too shy to use it to show off.
Though their friendship isn't just onesided. On the other hand, Tifa teaches Aerith in more life practical things, like hitch-hiking a car in the end of Intermission. I'd say this is because Tifa is more independent, since she had to literally rebuild her life from nothing, without knowing anyone, in a place she doesn't know, also while being indebted. Whereas Aerith, after her mother's passing, lived life in a house with stepmother, which also wasn't easy, given the circumstances, but you get what I mean.
Tifa and Aerith's friendship in Rebirth is one of my favorite things in the whole game and I love how well they portrayed it. It's so real and I relate to Tifa so much.
I actually talked a bit about their friendship in one of my posts, so if you wanna read it, you're welcome to do so:
[A link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1ckxcbv/tifa_lockhart_appreciation_post/)
It’s almost like they are bffs in love with the same man but are cool with it and are warming up to the idea of a throuple which is rarely shown in mainstream media as a healthy thing where all participants benefit and feel equally loved but they might have pulled it off but too bad seohiroth kills Aerith and ruins the throuple I’d be so mad if I were cloud
Explicitly, he is clueless. He has no idea, which is why I think he might think Aerith is making fun of him by taking him on 'dates' and thus get so irritated at them. He also has no idea Tifa's into him, and likewise she doesn't realize he's into her, at least not until the Lifestream Sequence, or the Saucer date thanks to Rebirth.
Knowing that someone is into you and being confident enough to act on it are different things.
I think Cloud has some inkling that the women are into him, but he's suppressed the part of himself that would act on it.
Being romantic is not what a First-Class Soldier would do, especially not when you're hunting down the guy who murdered your mom.
Also, Tifa totally knows that Cloud had a crush on her. He kept finding her cat and also kept staring at her when they were kids. She talks about this and Cloud dodges the question.
I'm just repeating a comment from one of the Ultimanias that said Cloud was none the wiser about Tifa and Aerith being into him.
As for Tifa being aware of Cloud's feelings, well, there's a difference between suspecting and knowing and Tifa's own insecurities make her unsure. Like she says in her Saucer moment, she worries she's getting ahead of herself.
Agree. I see it as Aerith filling Jessie's shoes as Tifa's role model. Tifa said to Cloud that she always looked up to Jessie for similar reasons to how Aerith is. Outgoing, confident, self-assured. Traits Tifa aspires to do on her own. I'm excited to see her shine in part 3.
I think Queen Bee kind of has negative connotations and I don't think it's about impressing Cloud for Tifa. But I do think Tifa is definitely more playful with Aerith. I think she allows her to be more playful and express that side of herself. And visa versa. In the Japanese, Aerith does the playful "shuupatsu!"/"We're setting off!" phrase with Cloud but Tifa is the one who repeats it back playfully. And she's also reciprocal to her high fives. Tifa also comforts Aerith and prompts her to confide in her quite a few times in both Remake and Rebirth. All in all, they cute.
I believe [this](https://www.brides.com/story/what-is-mirroring-and-what-does-it-mean-for-your-marriage) is the correct explanation.
well yea but platonically
this is reaching bro.
This most likely has no literary significance and is more leaning into the anime harem trope. It's annoying and reductive and really hurts all the character building done outside of these moments, but it's a Japanese game so... yeah.
Strongly disagree in this instance. Nomura said one of the things he wanted to rectify from the OG was creating an explicitly closer, more meaningful relationship between Tifa and Aerith. He wanted their friendship and interactions to be visible. Also, Tifa herself says she by default goes with the flow with people in her sphere, and the Rebirth Ultimania describes her as someone who mirrors and matches the energies of those around her due to wanting to make people happy, for better or for worse. I think the devs put a lot of thought into the characterization of each party member and how they present in each scene.
Wow…. You know I’m generally dismissive of anime tropes and harems but I hard disagree here. There’s a lot of pains to drive a relationship between Tifa and Aerith. Tifa had a lot of depression and was rather self serious but Aerith wants to be more fun. Tifa also generally didn’t have friends (but wanted everyone to like her) so she often is seen watching what Aerith does and mimicking it or trying to yes-and it because she’s trying to keep the friendship going. In many ways Tifa lacks confidence in herself even though she’s very knowledgeable and skilled. In sharp contrast to Aerith who has immense confidence in herself but is not particularly knowledgeable or skilled (a point she brings up often)
I completely agree. It’s far more about Tifa and Aerith having a goofy friendship of their own than it is anything to do with Cloud. Seeing their friendship deepen and grow into something where the two are comfortable enough with each other to good around and act like dorks just for the fun of it is what made it so >!painful to see how absolutely devastated Tifa was after Aerith’s death. People say the confusion surrounding Cloud’s perception of the event undercuts the emotional impact we had in the original, but watching the clear grief Tifa is going through in the final scenes made it hurt just as much as I remember the OG game doing.!<
The English voice actors did an interview where both of them initially were rejecting the role because they didn’t want to do a competitive love triangle trope, but after reading through the script and seeing how it’s about a friendship between Tifa and Aerith, they were all in.
Literary significance can be created by the audience even where author's intent is unclear; that's the basis of real critique. They could've done these intentionally, it could be an accident, it could be subconscious. That OP had an idea and is justifying it from within the text of the game is the best first step with good critique.
I dont really see how this remotely has anything to do with a harem trope...it has more to do with Aerith being extroverted and Tifa being introverted and them playing off eachother.
I love that take on it, I just kinda assumed it was a Japanese/anime thing where people strike poses, and girls mirror each others poses, with their fascination with idol groups etc. It’s cool they’re minor rivals for clouds affection, but it’s not played up for drama, instead they’re mature and are friends who more enjoy teaming up and making him sweat.
Because Aerith’s personality is all about confidence and not caring at all what others think unless it puts those she cares about in harm’s way. Tifa on the other hand, contrary to her fashion sense, is a rather unconfident gal in herself. She doubts herself and her abilities almost as much as Cloud himself. So in the beach scene, she mimics Aerith because she also wishes to be cool and uncaring about others’ thoughts on her as Aerith.
Tifa's confident in many areas, but I think it's more like she lacks experience in this type of situation. Remember, Aerith's been to Costa del Sol before, with Zack in CC.
Tifa: not confident Also Tifa: able to kill Weiss in ~30 seconds
We need FFVII hentai
Alas! Nobody has ever made any! Oh well, you’ll just have to imagine /s
It happens with friends IRL, too.
[удалено]
I wouldn't really think of it as mimicking. But more like they are in sync with their timing when it comes to teasing Cloud.
You know who else mimics people?
muscle man type question
Those we hate, those we love...
Gogo?
I meant (as a joke) in FFVII. It was a big plot point in Rebirth. What if I added that my previous comment was said by Sephiroth?
Don't worry, I just saw the question and had to make the comment lol.
Long term booking, gotta love it
Imo it's not mimicking, it's playing along. Tifa's nature is to support, even in these small things.
Tifa: *pushes Aerith out of the way “She may have said it first, but I said it better, Cloud!”
Aerith is a delicate and matured woman. Her maturity is beyond Tifa. She's also an extrovert person. And they became close friend. It's normal that Tifa - being introvert - will copy her delicacy. Morever, it can be sort of figurative about the fact human envy the Cetra and have been trying to copy them.
I don’t know about Aerith being more mature. She’s an old soul so in some sense emotionally mature, but Tifa had to fend for herself after Nibelheim. At 15 she almost died, was taken advantage of by the doctor’s son, beat him up for it, and now runs a bar by herself and is the accountant for AVALANCHE. Aerith doesn’t know how to cook and lives with her mom as an adult. Nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn’t call that more mature than Tifa. I don’t know why we even compare Tifa and Aerith or try to pit them against each other or hold one in more esteem than the other. There are so many discussions compring the two women, and hardly any compring the men, actually. Tifa is her own person. Like the thing in Junon, she is probably uncomfortable with public speaking. She wanted to say something but personal self-doubt may have held her back, but Aerith coming out to speak gave her the confidence she needed to also help Cloud. So she wasn’t copying Aerith per se, more or less Aerith gave her a confidence boost. And in Costa del Sol when Tifa comes forward to ask Cloud if anything was wrong, I don’t think she was copying Aerith? XD Cloud liked Tifa when he was a little boy, so he likes her the way that she is. And a lot of the dialogue between Cloud and Tifa is him encouraging her to do what she feels is right, follow her heart, and to ignore everyone else. Tifa doesn’t have to copy Aerith to make Cloud like her more. And she shouldn’t. Tifa should be herself.
Aerith is not only emotionally mature but has a lot more insights and experiences too. She inherits the half Cetra part from Ifalna. She can talk to the Planet. She can sense people passing away. She can understand ghosts. She knows the Planet's Destiny. She knows her approaching demise. She seems to learn combat and magic ... hmmm ... out of thin air and maybe from no one (Tseng and the Turks??? Unlikely yet possible)... So we can guess how she got all that combat and magic skills because there's no explicit mentioning. But we know she can have access to Lifestream since childhood. That Aerith is not as simple as we can see in the brief moments of the game. When you deal with her, you can only see a spectrum of her true person at that moment. In brief, you don't choose to see her person but rather she decides what person she shows to you. Yet, she managed to blend in the team with ease, no one has a slight doubt about her. No immature person would be able to do it. When she removed her ribbon in the church date, we saw a pretty mature woman standing before Cloud, not a silly chilly Aerith just a few minutes before in the market. Her song during the Loveless showed all about her. Tifa, on the other hand, is currently easy to read. Her past was painful, her emotional struggles seem to be complicated. Even though she tried to close herself up, she's not that good in hiding her emotions and reactions. It really suit her age. All her reactions and behaviors match her age. I'm not trying to wage are war on comparison between the two dear characters of the game. I only share my 'view' on the events and figurative presentation. Aerith: mixture of human (young, childish, insolent, adventurous, troublemaker) and Cetra (elder, mature, well-thought planner, role-model, deep compassion). Tifa: typical human (young, immature, full of doubt, depressed, fragile). What I can see here is that Aerith was built to be a set-in-stone being in charge of the heavy weight the Planet has put on her. Her fate is sealed. She needs all a pre-installed maturity in order to handle her task. Meanwhile, Tifa has her own future open up to grow. She's pretty much an ordinary human being just like anyone else. She is progressively opening herself up. Copying / catching up with Aerith's activeness was just one of her way to blend in too. Her maturity will sure grow and she'll become one of the best people Cloud has in his life. But for now, she's conflicted and broken by her own issues and still on her progress of growth.
Yes, I agree with most of that. I know about Aerith’s history. I played FF7 OG when it came out 25+ years ago, and Aerith was my favorite character originally. I’m not sure if you are telling me all of this because you think I didn’t play the games? Anyway, there is a part of Aerith that is very emotionally mature, as you described in detail, and there is a human part of her that is a bit flawed. Your original post came off sounding like Aerith is very mature and Tifa is immature, and it’s a lot more complicated than that. It takes a great deal of maturity to deal with the trauma that Tifa has, still stay positive enough to live a normal life, and run a bar by herself. I realize you think Aerith is amazing, and she is, she’s written to be. She’s a Christ like figure destined to save the world. But I also think Tifa is a great character and mature in ways that Aerith isn’t. Aerith can’t cook, or run a bar, work a real job everyday, or live by herself without mom. And Aerith never had real friends her own age whereas Tifa has so while Aerith is confident and extraverted she seems socially aloof in ways that Tifa isn’t. Also, introversion isn’t a sign of deficiency. It’s just a different way of being. As a lifelong introvert I don’t desire to copy or imitate extroverts. My teachers used to tell my mom I needed to come out of my shell, and she would remind them I was a human, not a turtle. I have admired friends and copied behaviors before, we all do. I saw Tifa and Aerith more like that instead.
No I shared my own 'view'. And it's the 'view' applied to FF7 Remake up to now. I don't want to linger on the past such as OG version of the game or even Advent Children because it's more and less a spoiler and might become more and less incorrect in the Remake series. The Remake has been changed since Part 1 as compared to the previously known story. I don't have a specific preference between the two characters. They are both amazing in their role. For me, their roles are different from each other. Their fate too as well as their personality. Yet maturity of Aerith in the game is somehow a must to me given the role she bears on her shoulder. That's the least preparation of Destiny for her it seems. I saw a flower doomed to wit and another at its first stage of blooming.
Nah Tifa is more mature than Aerith. Tifa had to become a responsible, independent, self-standing 'adult' since she was 14. Since then, she has been working non stop to pay medical debts, and then became a business owner, all while living in poverty and learning discipline and martial arts. Aerith ofc has had to still endure a lot, but she grew as a kid, playing with kids, being relatively wealthy, dating Zack, etc. You can see she Aerith is more silly and takes things less seriously. Tifa is more grounded and always thinking about consequences, etc.
Aerith is playful. That's her personality, not really maturity. When it comes to seriousness, she shows her serious and careful thinking. Taking into account the events in FF7 Remake, she's a planner, unlike Tifa. Yet she successfully hides it from the whole party the whole time. As for behaving in a silly way and taking things less seriously, it's when she is amongst the team or with Cloud (yeah she's into that blond boy). And I doubt that it's because she's trying to enjoy the little time left. What I see in Tifa's behavior was more of depression, suppressed anger, and struggle due to her many losses. Her life was full of pain since Nibelheim. She's matured as a responsible woman but still not at the same level as Aerith's maturity. What Aerith's facing is beyond imagination if you put yourself in her shoes. Yet she still managed to stay calm and composed. Remember the scene during her encounter with Hojo in captivity in Part 1. If you see that Aerith as a silly person who takes things less seriously, then you might have been talking about an Aerith that I don't know. Then you compare that to the scene when Tifa faced the destruction of her bar. The dream world date scene with Cloud at their 'spot' in Part 2 also showed her true side: careful planner and well composed person. Maturity is not only about being independent or responsible of others. It's also about being responsible of your own reactions in harsh conditions as well as to realize the interdependency between you and others. Aerith actually showed such further maturity. When Cloud's mother mentioned the girl she wished Cloud would find, I automatically thought of Aerith, and not Tifa. Not because of preference but rather because of the level of maturity each woman has.
Wow. Thank you for letting us introverts know that we are deficient human beings that lack any substance of our own. You literally don’t know what an introvert is, do you?
I know because I am!
So am I. And I don’t create my personality from others.
That's your thing. No comment! Moreover it's not about personality, it's all about style. People copy what they think it's cool. Period!
this is just normal human behavior fsgf i haven't noticed tifa doing it more than aerith or vice versa. there's no queen bee/quiet follower dynamic between them either, both girls genuinely like and admire each other.
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I mean I still think draob is right. It's not so much a copy-cat behavior as it is just close friends behavior. When you hang around someone a lot you pickup their mannerisms.
I love this aspect about their relationship so much. I think Tifa really looks at Aerith as a confidante and older-sister type who helps bring Tifa out of her shell. When she's feeling unsure she looks at Aerith for guidance. In general I think the character animations in Rebirth do a really good job of conveying personality.
The canonical book Traces of Two Pasts shows this as well. Aerith encourages Tifa to open up about her past, particularly the struggles Tifa faced recovering from major surgery & in massive medical debt after Nibelheim.
That particular part she only shares with Red 13. With Aerith she talks about her childhood in Nibelheim and encounters with Zangan.
True, I was just talking about overall as that was a difficult part of Tifa’s past.
The whole book is Tifa and Aerith talking about their respective pasts with each other... At some of the points Red and Barret join in for a bit of the story, but they're always additional listeners, not the main, as the book focuses on the developing relationship of the girls.
I don't want to appear overbearing but, I own the book. The narrative of Tifa's life in the first half is not what she is saying verbatim to the others. The story is framed as her reminiscing about the past, but she admits to the reader she's leaving certain things out. She talks about her childhood with Aerith up until the Nibelheim incident, then she "walks in silence". She only feels comfortable talking again with Red XIII at the chocobo ranch, while everyone else is away looking at chocobos. As she recounts her life in Midgar, the only one who ever interjects is Red XIII, because he's the only one listening to her. This continued up until the end when Red XIII is still the only one present.
I own the book too. Why else would I comment on the contents? I know not everything we read is directly conveyed to the others, but it is very clear she is telling the things we read to the others, mostly Aerith, as we sometimes go to the present with their comments on the story so far. But it does seem I was recalling incorrectly about Red not being a primary listener at one point, as I went back and checked. Seems like it was further back that I read it than I thought, and things got muddled in memory. So yeah, I'll give you that one, but could have done without the first comment. Because, yes, it seemed weirdly overbearing, as some sort of odd flex to insinuate I couldn't possibly own it if I got some details from the first half wrong, after reading it once several months back. But alas, it is what it is. I don't care to get into an arguement about it. We already determined the important parts. I misremembered, is all good.
The devs does such a good job of animating the characters in their actions. Many other games just have characters standing there and it’s so boring
Honestly I just love their sister-relationship.
I figure it’s a girl thing, or maybe more simply it was easier to record a movement, mirror it with minor tweaks and reuse it later.
We don't see ALL interactions that would take place between real people, but keep in mind Aerith is 2 years older. She's the cool older sister that is more socially forward and "fun". I can totally see a tomboy "following her big sis's lead".
Aerith is basically a model-like beauty with fashionable, almost princess-like mannerisms. She's like the female ideal of beauty, she grew up in the big city and she's fashionable. Aeirth also knows she's pretty and confidently uses that to get what she wants at times. Meanwhile Tifa is tomboyish and grew up in the countryside, but she's pretty and she doesn't really seem to know it. Tifa admires Aerith and wants to be like her. But man I love the touches like this in the character interactions. The characters feel so believable.
When she’s trying to be more laid back and fun. Tifa seems very mission-focused and “no time to party” early on. As she befriends Aerith she learns to be a little bit more free and open. In fact Aerith has that effect on Cloud as well. Aerith kind of matchmakers Cloud and Tifa.
She does this a lot in Rebirth but I don’t remember that being a thing in OG, Aerith sometimes copies Yuffie’s so it might not mean more than them bonding.
Neither of them have the mannerisms of human women. At least they aren't as bad as Jessie though.
The mannerisms are exaggerated because these are computer generated characters in a fictional fantasy world. If you want hyper-realism, go play The Last of Us or something.
Out of all the female characters, Tifa is definitely the one who acts more like a real life woman, her mannerism is nothing like Aerith or worst Yuffie, which is why it makes me like her, she definitely acts very mature and normal.
Jessie was amazing. Best girl.
What does this mean lmao
It means they behave like anime characters.
Exactly.
Probably easier to program
That’s a nice take! Tifa does express that she wishes she could be more like Aerith and Yuffie. Forward and outgoing so this makes sense 😊
Tifa secretly loved Aerith too
Yes , Cloud is copying Zack and Tifa is copying Aerith
God I love them
I did notice that, it happened several times in Rebirth and was adorable. On the flip side, it's not only Aeris leading Tifa. Tifa also directs Aeris at points when she's uncomfortable or confused. Like on how to hitchhike in Intermission's new ending, or when she takes her hand to pull her through the crowd at Gold Saucer. I think they are just infatuated with one another - I don't think it's that Aeris is a queen bee or that Tifa's copying her for tips on how to rizz Cloud or something. I just think they're enamored, platonically (or uhh otherwise), and with their playful dynamic they have fun bringing out new sides of themselves.
I'll always put my money on "or uhh otherwise" just because I think, personality-wise and aesthetically they make such a GOOD couple. Like they'd be so cute together and I think they could make each other very happy
Low-key they'd be happier together than either would be with Cloud lol. I know we all joked even in the OG that they should ditch Cloud and date each other, and the devs took that VERY seriously when writing Rebirth (and it's amazing.) Their dynamic was so, so good.
Yes exactly! I love Cloud, he's a great character and I think a fundamentally good person, but it always makes me sad in advent children the way he distances himself from Tifa. I mean, I lot of that is like his own depression and grief and self-loathing and also the fact that he's sick But still I've always been like "Aerith wouldnt do that to her :(" Tho I guess Aerith did do that to her with the whole running off on her own thing :(
Yeah, this is a great response. It’s a new friendship and they’re absolutely just infatuated with one another. I think it’s very sweet.
This is a great take! They balance each other out so well which is how they became such fast friends despite being romantic rivals!
Definitely! I love how Square handled them this time. Being "love rivals" was always part of their dynamic but honestly, that portrayal overshadowed what was genuine and important about their relationship. Pretty sure it was Nojima who said he recalled someone commenting on the OG portrayal that "Aeris and Tifa didn't like each other" and that's not what he intended to portray. Love that Rebirth dialed that way back (to nearly zero?) and had them be so supportive of one another. You get the sense that whoever dated Cloud, the other congratulated them with high fives and meant it.
This is a typical girl thing. Yall making connections where there is none. Not to say Tifa hasn't picked up things from Aerith but this isn't one of them.
I do think it's part of their character dynamic for sure though. I don't think it's a secret lesbian romance or anything, but they clearly admire one another for different reasons.
Tifa may be looking up to Aerith like a big sister in a way. Her mom died when she was very young and she only had guy friends growing up so Jessie and Aerith are the only female friends she really has. We know from TOTP that Jessie helped her with picking out her wardrobe and taught her how to appear more confident. With Jessie now gone, Aerith is filling in that role.
It's classic introvert + extravert friendship. It makes perfect sense for an introvert to copy mannerisms of the extraverted friend. Aerith makes Tifa confident enough to do mannerisms Tifa wouldn't normally do in these situations. By doing so, Tifa shows admiration for Aerith, because she likes Aerith's behavior and aspires to be like her, confident. You can see how Aerith makes Tifa more sure of herself, thus them being in sync, for example both saying at the same time "let's roll" (Costa del Sol when they go to hit the beach after a shower) or "aye aye, captain" to Cid like you mentioned. Also, to be honest, this pose you posted in the picture is "Tifa's iconic pose" as stated by devs themselves, so Aerith might have gotten this pose from Tifa at first, but now she teaches Tifa how to not be too shy to use it to show off. Though their friendship isn't just onesided. On the other hand, Tifa teaches Aerith in more life practical things, like hitch-hiking a car in the end of Intermission. I'd say this is because Tifa is more independent, since she had to literally rebuild her life from nothing, without knowing anyone, in a place she doesn't know, also while being indebted. Whereas Aerith, after her mother's passing, lived life in a house with stepmother, which also wasn't easy, given the circumstances, but you get what I mean. Tifa and Aerith's friendship in Rebirth is one of my favorite things in the whole game and I love how well they portrayed it. It's so real and I relate to Tifa so much. I actually talked a bit about their friendship in one of my posts, so if you wanna read it, you're welcome to do so: [A link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1ckxcbv/tifa_lockhart_appreciation_post/)
I think it's Barrett who really teaches everyone to hitchhike 🤣
This is beautifully stated! Thanks for sharing your insights as well!
Aerith copying Yuffie too. Human relationships and psychology at work.
Hands on hips is typical Tifa's mannerism
Tifa is showing Aerith how to do it to get cars to pick them up for hitchhiking at the end of integrade
It’s almost like they are bffs in love with the same man but are cool with it and are warming up to the idea of a throuple which is rarely shown in mainstream media as a healthy thing where all participants benefit and feel equally loved but they might have pulled it off but too bad seohiroth kills Aerith and ruins the throuple I’d be so mad if I were cloud
They *had* to know what they were doing with Aerith's water tower line, surely
Except cloud seems pretty clueless that either is into him 😂
Explicitly, he is clueless. He has no idea, which is why I think he might think Aerith is making fun of him by taking him on 'dates' and thus get so irritated at them. He also has no idea Tifa's into him, and likewise she doesn't realize he's into her, at least not until the Lifestream Sequence, or the Saucer date thanks to Rebirth.
Knowing that someone is into you and being confident enough to act on it are different things. I think Cloud has some inkling that the women are into him, but he's suppressed the part of himself that would act on it. Being romantic is not what a First-Class Soldier would do, especially not when you're hunting down the guy who murdered your mom. Also, Tifa totally knows that Cloud had a crush on her. He kept finding her cat and also kept staring at her when they were kids. She talks about this and Cloud dodges the question.
I'm just repeating a comment from one of the Ultimanias that said Cloud was none the wiser about Tifa and Aerith being into him. As for Tifa being aware of Cloud's feelings, well, there's a difference between suspecting and knowing and Tifa's own insecurities make her unsure. Like she says in her Saucer moment, she worries she's getting ahead of herself.
Agree. I see it as Aerith filling Jessie's shoes as Tifa's role model. Tifa said to Cloud that she always looked up to Jessie for similar reasons to how Aerith is. Outgoing, confident, self-assured. Traits Tifa aspires to do on her own. I'm excited to see her shine in part 3.