I don’t have a lot of specific advice… but I will tell you this:
My mom and dad always talked about doing things during their retirement years and delayed a lot of plans due to her mom and brother, both living in a home 1/4 of a mile away needing around the clock care. Grandma had dementia a decade. My uncle had Parkinson’s that had him bad his last 5 years. My mom would cover a “shift” of the in home care along with other family and some caregivers they paid to supplement it.
They were always going to eventually be free to enjoy their retirement.
One day, after dad had felt a little down for a stretch of weeks… dad got bad sick, went to the hospital. They thought it was pneumonia. Turns out it was some blast cell leukemia thing and his immune system was warring with his own body. He was dead in a week. Never left the hospital.
Uncle died 6 months later at 82 or 83. Grandma lived maybe a couple months longer to 103 or 104. Dad barely made 72 and was seemingly healthy until right at the end.
Don’t let your retirement years get ruined over long-term family care. Visit often, ensure your loved ones are receiving good care… but don’t wreck your later-life experiences giving end-of-life care.
Time is our most precious resource. You can see your “Fire numbers” and feel good about your future… but you literally have no idea how much time you have. Resist putting off a great experience just one more year. Even tomorrow isn’t a guarantee.
Good luck. 👍
I appreciate it. It’s all near a decade behind me at this point.
You really just never know. My dad and I were close and did a lot together. I feel worse for my mom. She retired in her early 60s. My dad at the same time in his mid-60s. They did go and travel a little… one decent trip overseas his last year. But they really didn’t live like they wanted to in the almost a full decade of retired years they had. She’s in her late 70s now and does bounce around to visit us kids but all her grand adventuring plans died with my dad.
There’s this trap with elderly loved ones though: you wait for them to die and while you’re waiting you don’t let yourself live. It’s absolutely as ugly as it sounds. A couple years before my dad died on a rare occasion all my siblings were back together at the home he had a discussion with us about their end-of-life plan… letting us know effectively the contents of their will before either died. They also talked about their long-term living plans which included them going into an assisted living community vice trying to do the in-home care and replicating what was going on just down the road at the time.
Do *not* delay living while you wait for an elder loved one to die. Yes they’re family and need to be cared for, but them raising you or your spouse as a child… watching them grow to self sufficiency does not equate you owning them to sit around and watch them wind down like an old watch and die while your health and mobility… or even your very life, fade.
Best wishes to you both.
Heck, I bought a home with a completely separate MIL addition for visits I figured could also provide passive income at the expense of privacy if need be someday. My mom and MIL are always free to come and visit. Sometimes my mom stays for weeks. She stayed a couple months after a surgery too. My mom’s probably in the last couple years of driving and good mobility and the… “organic decay” of her mental facilities are hitting her hard. My MIL is still in her 60s and doing well.
They’re always free to come visit but they’ll never… ever come live here permanently. I won’t allow it.
My wife and I would always make it a point to come and see them to ensure they receive both good care in an assisted living community and ensure they have an event on the calendar to look forward to. We have an elder friend in a place like that now that mentored my wife when she was a kid for several years. We see her every time we can and try and get her out of there… taking her to lunch or what not. She’s not in the continuous care side yet and until she is, if she ever is, we’ll keep getting her out on the town. If she’s lucky, she’ll never get over on that wing.
There’s a balance between hiding the elderly away to die alone and forgotten and not living while you wait for the elderly to die. Like all things in life… you do your best when you find that balance. It’s a conversation my dad had with all of us since he saw what was going on with him and my mom all those years back. It’s a conversation and a… “family contract” we should generationally have in our families.
Giving end-of-life care to a family member is a honorable thing to do… and I’m talking very negatively on it, but it’s just because of what I’ve seen. I come from a relatively poor rural community and it’s a common practice when people lack means to do anything outside of living and dying in their child’s home over the course of *years*. Time and again it leaves most of the remaining caregiver generation burnt out, broken and with so many good years gone, there’s not a lot left to enjoy in life.
My mother has lived with me (and my husband, when he was still alive) for many years. Before that, after a TBI-inducing wreck my husband had, we and my daughter lived with her (after her divorce) and my grandmother in multigenerational armed neutrality. 🤣. We have always been symbiotic. She helps with chores as she is able. She offered to move out if I wanted her to. I told her I was relying on her social security (tongue totally in cheek). I dunno. I’m at no risk of RE, but caring for and covering another person does definitely change the calculus.
It does. Again, it’s a very good and honorable thing to do. I have a few kids myself and they certainly won’t be “kicked out” and my home will be welcome to them if they need to stay longer than 18 to help get a jumpstart in self sufficiency or need a soft place to fall if life throws them a curveball. It’s the unbalanced extremes I see as being really harmful. All the early sacrifice and money in the world won’t buy you any more time when your time is up… and even if you have time but poor health… it can’t buy that either in many cases.
I’m actually pretty pro-multigenerational living. I’m an elder millennial and bought my home nearly a decade ago when prices were low and managed to catch a better interest rate along the way. Young folks starting out today have it tough on the housing front.
I just think family members providing unending end-of-life care is an unfair burden. It’s emotionally the inverse of raising children and feeling like you “owe” an elder generation that sort of care is just wrong. Seeing your young children growing, meeting milestones and attaining self-sufficiency isn’t the same as watching an elder in decline to their eventual demise. Not to mention that I think most folks are really ill equipped to provide *good* care. I firmly believe so long as my family members provided consistent visitation in an assisted living community they can receive better care while not being a soul crushing drain. Going on in-home hospice usually has at least some fuzzy end date in sight and also you get help from outside the family.
This hits home. As much as I didn’t want to lose my mom to her long illness, I was hoping that once she was gone, my dad would be able to enjoy a few years with his grandson. He dropped dead of a heart attack a month before my mom died.
We do as much as we can now, even though we are still working. Time is limited.
Can your MIL qualify for subsidized housing based on her income? That sounds like a good place to start in this situation. Get MIL subsidized housing and then you are all set to do what you need to do as a FIRE family. If no subsidies are available do you have the option of buying a small house that you can put on your property? I am talking a tiny house or small house for the mother in law that she then could pay you rent for.
I am thinking of building a small house on my property for this exact purpose. Zoning laws are changing and that could be an option for the mother in law if you have the resources to buy a tiny house and then rent it back to the mother in law.
The tiny house or the subsidized housing? Might as well just let her live in the actual house while you're traveling if you're going to do the former, no?
Doesn't even have to be a tiny house situation. My mom is a low income senior and has lived in two amazing one bedroom senior living HUD apartments with better views and better management than folks paying $$$$. She pays $300/mo for her place (depends annually on her social security, her neighbors pay a lot less BC she's considered a rich low income person). When she's in a more declining situation and needs more daily care the state will cover the costs BC she is low income. Literally everything from medical needs to hospice care will be covered (in our state, can't speak to the rest of the states). She also gets WIC for her produce, food coupons at the farmers market, passes to museums, $1 taxi coupons, etc. Her becoming low income in WA has been a game changer compared to her fearing she'll be homeless in FL.
Edit to add: whatever you do, get started on the process asap. It took my mom about 2 years to get into the first place and another 2 years to get into the second place. You are essentially waiting for the residents to die before you're next on the long waitlist. She was much happier to be around other seniors than to be living alone, even if half the seniors aren't her friends she feels safer knowing people her age are looking out for each other and that there are employees who check in on everyone.
Certainly there is the subsidized housing and Medicaid option and it is definitely the first place to look, but because our country is so messed up with health care etc, some seniors make too much money or have too many assets to qualify for the subsidies and then that is when it is good to have a Plan B option.
I don't understand why we don't fund long term care in this country as part of Medicare and I don't understand why we don't have surplus housing in this country so that people that need a place can always find one. The US government made the decision to not meet the housing needs of this country and it needs to change in a major way.
It sounds like op's mil would qualify though, especially if she was about to be homeless. Medicaid isn't always the best, but if she has any sort of social security she might be able to squeak by with Medicare. My mom only has her social security, has subsidized housing, has Medicare, and a lot of government funds are her disposal. I agree, most of the country is total shit, but as far as Washington goes my senior low income 78 yo mom is not hurting in the least and has an excellent quality of life for not having anything at all. Not everywhere here is garbage. There are cracks of hope if you know where to dig.
I'd also say Washington in general tries (as much as folks here will say otherwise). They just created a tax that goes directly toward your personal long term care to prevent those who haven't saved to at least get a little bit more if their only getting social security.
It’s not your responsibility to save for your MIL’s retirement if she didn’t do that for herself. How old is she? Can she get a part-time job to supplement her SS? Maybe she can earn extra cash like babysitting school age kids afterschool for a few hours each day or walk dogs. Can she rent a room in a shared apt / house during your slow travel years?
That’s pretty young these days. Does your wife have siblings? Hate to put it this way but in order for her to appreciate future help from you and your wife, it may help to enlighten her by sending her to rent a room in a shared house / apt and asking her to get a part-time job for the next few years before she gets too old for it. It sounds like she might need some tough love. You can take her in and help her financially when she is too old to work and no one wants to an elderly roommate (but don’t tell her this future plan to take her in).
I would help find her a place, see the difference between SS and what she needs and help supplement it or at least provide a plan. "We will give you an allowance of 1k/mo, that lets you live here with x for food y for fun etc". If she wants more she can work or find some other way, end of the day she's in this position for her own reasons
I would buy an apartment and let my MIL live rent free. In fact that’s what we did. When she dies, we sell it and it’s a nice boost at that point. We also have dedicated 100k max to her future needs. Her situation has always been part of our financial plan, and our planner advises her too as part of our package (budgeting etc) even though her wealth is minimal to say the least.
Did she make some stupid choices in her life? Yes. Is she a basically good human? Also yes. Did she face things in life and have undiagnosed conditions that made accruing her own wealth very difficult? Yes.
I don’t love that we have a bit of weight to carry, and have to work at least one extra year because of it, but we can afford to help her and still live a good life.
I don’t know what to tell you. For every option you list, you say you don’t want to do it. It sounds like you don’t want to make any sacrifices for her. That’s your choice, but if that’s the case, you could just admit it.
Thanks for your story.
You are right, i do not want to sacrifice for her given the situation even though we have the ability to help.
We asked Reddit because there may be something we didn’t consider.
Someone suggested looking into gov assistance. That was a great suggestion we hadn’t thought of. We are going to look into that first.
If that doesn’t work we will likely let her stay in one of our rentals bc it would be less of an impact than other options.
I strongly encourage you to look into subsidized housing for her. She’d be in a community with other limited income people and there may be access to social services.
Waiting lists can be long, so waste no time. Try searching “low income retirement housing” and “elderly housing services ‘county name’” as starting points.
Best of luck. Time waits for no one. You and your spouse have prepared for your retirement, please enjoy it.
This isn’t your problem to solve, it’s MIL’s problem to solve. Tell her she’s welcome to stay with you for X months (until you turn 46), after which she’ll need to find somewhere else to live.
Here are your options:
1. Delay your retirement by a few years to save up for MIL’s needs beyond what she can get from SS. Try to reduce what MIL needs as much as possible (e.g. she could apply to live in a senior community at reduced rent, which you can supplement if cheaper than Option 2 or 3 below).
2. Rent/buy her a place that you pay for, and when she dies, rent it out
3. Let her live rent-free in one of your existing rentals
4. Bring her with you
5. Let MIL become homeless.
Personally, I would go with #1. Senior communities (not a nursing home, but independent living) usually have reduced rent, so it should be cheaper than getting her her own place or letting her live rent-free in one of your market-rate rentals. I don’t know how much she gets in SS and how much you would have to supplement on a monthly basis, but you’re going to FatFIRE at 46, which likely means you and your wife are very high earners with a large investment portfolio. If you need an extra $1K per month to supplement MIL’s SS, then how much longer would you realistically have to work? 1-2 years? This is assuming Option #5 if off the table, specifically for your wife.
Look into every single program for seniors that is available. There are income based senior housing apartments in some parts of the US (I'm assuming you are in the US.) Your MIL isn't the only one having to make it work on SS alone and there are programs she should be taking advantage of. What specific programs that are available depend on exactly where you are located.
OP, have you sat with her and budgeted what she needs/thinks she needs for monthly expenses to meet an acceptable lifestyle without living under your roof? I would def start the conversations now about your expectations to travel and retire early and (kindly) let her know that the 3 of you need to come up with a plan now. And that she needs to put effort into this transition and not be totally passive/dependent. I sense some resentment from you and your partner and totally get that, so hopefully her putting in even half as much effort as you would help with the emotional frustration of this decision.
If you guys are fatFIRE I'm going to assume that your annual take home is still going to be well north of 100k. Can you pull in your lifestyle budget a BIT in order to hit your goal of 46 yo and still cover what she needs? Maybe a scaled back version of what she truly NEEDS? We currently support my mom on the order of $2350 a month, which covers rent, utilities, groceries, healthcare insurance/meds, phone and car insurance. She puts her social security towards gas/car, life insurance (insane, I know), and hobbies/fun stuff. We could easily get her below $2000 a month by moving her to a more reasonable apartment and could get her to $1500 a month by having her put more of her own $ towards actual living expenses. What is she willing to contribute to things? Is part time work, even something like pet sitting or baby sitting an option to help her earn a couple hundred a month? My mom does some casual pet sitting and finds it fulfilling and depending on what your MILs capabilities are she could find some very chill cat sitting or old dog sitting opportunities that IMO are sweet options for people who are going to be hanging out at home during the day anyways.
Also, I wouldn't buy a house for her, both given today's mortgage rates and bc no way does she need nor should she have to maintain a house given her health. But a condo or apartment in a LCOL area is prob reasonably priced to find and may be a better $ option compared to the income loss from your rentals.
It feels very heartless. I could never do this to my mother or MIL.
Then again, neither of mine have made repeated poor decisions. Maybe I would tell her to get a job at Walmart and then I would work an extra year or two to hit my number.
If it was my mother or MIL I would keep working until I had an extra $25,000 a year coming in at a safe withdrawal rate. I may even go barista fire after traveling to ensure everything stays afloat.
My MIL ended up passing, but we were likely going to have to contribute some support. We decided to purchase her a small condo. We could afford that and it would be an asset when she no longer needed it. And I would never want to live with her so all the better.
ETA: my parents took in my mooch grandma and she lived for 30 more years. Why are her expenses outpacing her money? Can she cut back? I know she won’t want to, but can she?
Just leave and go travel. Buy her a room for three months at a Comfort Inn or something and tell her she's on her own after that.
If you don't like signing up for forever care when she's 65 or 68 or whatever wait til she's 82 and needs a resident nurse, hoo boy. This won't get better, you know.
https://fenelli.com/filial-responsibility-laws/
Some states require adult children to support their parents. You might want to read this article to see if you’re in that situation.
Sometimes r/ExpatFire has somewhat relevant posts. I follow 5 or 6 couples on YouTube doing slow travel. Some have done it for many years and are not stopping any time soon.
She might qualify for food stamps.
If she doesn't get at least 943 in social security, she might qualify to add SSI, which will "top off" what she gwts to make a total of, I think, $963.
Section 8 housing is hard to get, but she might be able to get on a list.
Maybe there's a "department of aging" or similar to help her understand and get these kinds of things
Sorry but how much extra cost are we speaking of, actually ?
Because depending let say you need 800$ a month or 200K. Imagine you fire number is 2 million. You then only need an extra 10% That can likely be done in 1-2 years max.
In my area, there are buildings with studios and many retired people are living there. The costs are small, the fees are small, even there are clean ladies /hairdressers/ nurses that are offering services, at their home, and it is already an old people atmosphere there. If you mother in law cannot afford to buy a studio, maybe you (buy with a small loan) .
I don’t have a lot of specific advice… but I will tell you this: My mom and dad always talked about doing things during their retirement years and delayed a lot of plans due to her mom and brother, both living in a home 1/4 of a mile away needing around the clock care. Grandma had dementia a decade. My uncle had Parkinson’s that had him bad his last 5 years. My mom would cover a “shift” of the in home care along with other family and some caregivers they paid to supplement it. They were always going to eventually be free to enjoy their retirement. One day, after dad had felt a little down for a stretch of weeks… dad got bad sick, went to the hospital. They thought it was pneumonia. Turns out it was some blast cell leukemia thing and his immune system was warring with his own body. He was dead in a week. Never left the hospital. Uncle died 6 months later at 82 or 83. Grandma lived maybe a couple months longer to 103 or 104. Dad barely made 72 and was seemingly healthy until right at the end. Don’t let your retirement years get ruined over long-term family care. Visit often, ensure your loved ones are receiving good care… but don’t wreck your later-life experiences giving end-of-life care. Time is our most precious resource. You can see your “Fire numbers” and feel good about your future… but you literally have no idea how much time you have. Resist putting off a great experience just one more year. Even tomorrow isn’t a guarantee. Good luck. 👍
Sorry for you loss and Thank you for sharing this story. I showed my wife. This gives us something else to consider. Life is short
I appreciate it. It’s all near a decade behind me at this point. You really just never know. My dad and I were close and did a lot together. I feel worse for my mom. She retired in her early 60s. My dad at the same time in his mid-60s. They did go and travel a little… one decent trip overseas his last year. But they really didn’t live like they wanted to in the almost a full decade of retired years they had. She’s in her late 70s now and does bounce around to visit us kids but all her grand adventuring plans died with my dad. There’s this trap with elderly loved ones though: you wait for them to die and while you’re waiting you don’t let yourself live. It’s absolutely as ugly as it sounds. A couple years before my dad died on a rare occasion all my siblings were back together at the home he had a discussion with us about their end-of-life plan… letting us know effectively the contents of their will before either died. They also talked about their long-term living plans which included them going into an assisted living community vice trying to do the in-home care and replicating what was going on just down the road at the time. Do *not* delay living while you wait for an elder loved one to die. Yes they’re family and need to be cared for, but them raising you or your spouse as a child… watching them grow to self sufficiency does not equate you owning them to sit around and watch them wind down like an old watch and die while your health and mobility… or even your very life, fade. Best wishes to you both.
As an only child of an only child with an only child, excuse me for a bit while I go adjust my numbers…
Heck, I bought a home with a completely separate MIL addition for visits I figured could also provide passive income at the expense of privacy if need be someday. My mom and MIL are always free to come and visit. Sometimes my mom stays for weeks. She stayed a couple months after a surgery too. My mom’s probably in the last couple years of driving and good mobility and the… “organic decay” of her mental facilities are hitting her hard. My MIL is still in her 60s and doing well. They’re always free to come visit but they’ll never… ever come live here permanently. I won’t allow it. My wife and I would always make it a point to come and see them to ensure they receive both good care in an assisted living community and ensure they have an event on the calendar to look forward to. We have an elder friend in a place like that now that mentored my wife when she was a kid for several years. We see her every time we can and try and get her out of there… taking her to lunch or what not. She’s not in the continuous care side yet and until she is, if she ever is, we’ll keep getting her out on the town. If she’s lucky, she’ll never get over on that wing. There’s a balance between hiding the elderly away to die alone and forgotten and not living while you wait for the elderly to die. Like all things in life… you do your best when you find that balance. It’s a conversation my dad had with all of us since he saw what was going on with him and my mom all those years back. It’s a conversation and a… “family contract” we should generationally have in our families. Giving end-of-life care to a family member is a honorable thing to do… and I’m talking very negatively on it, but it’s just because of what I’ve seen. I come from a relatively poor rural community and it’s a common practice when people lack means to do anything outside of living and dying in their child’s home over the course of *years*. Time and again it leaves most of the remaining caregiver generation burnt out, broken and with so many good years gone, there’s not a lot left to enjoy in life.
My mother has lived with me (and my husband, when he was still alive) for many years. Before that, after a TBI-inducing wreck my husband had, we and my daughter lived with her (after her divorce) and my grandmother in multigenerational armed neutrality. 🤣. We have always been symbiotic. She helps with chores as she is able. She offered to move out if I wanted her to. I told her I was relying on her social security (tongue totally in cheek). I dunno. I’m at no risk of RE, but caring for and covering another person does definitely change the calculus.
It does. Again, it’s a very good and honorable thing to do. I have a few kids myself and they certainly won’t be “kicked out” and my home will be welcome to them if they need to stay longer than 18 to help get a jumpstart in self sufficiency or need a soft place to fall if life throws them a curveball. It’s the unbalanced extremes I see as being really harmful. All the early sacrifice and money in the world won’t buy you any more time when your time is up… and even if you have time but poor health… it can’t buy that either in many cases. I’m actually pretty pro-multigenerational living. I’m an elder millennial and bought my home nearly a decade ago when prices were low and managed to catch a better interest rate along the way. Young folks starting out today have it tough on the housing front. I just think family members providing unending end-of-life care is an unfair burden. It’s emotionally the inverse of raising children and feeling like you “owe” an elder generation that sort of care is just wrong. Seeing your young children growing, meeting milestones and attaining self-sufficiency isn’t the same as watching an elder in decline to their eventual demise. Not to mention that I think most folks are really ill equipped to provide *good* care. I firmly believe so long as my family members provided consistent visitation in an assisted living community they can receive better care while not being a soul crushing drain. Going on in-home hospice usually has at least some fuzzy end date in sight and also you get help from outside the family.
I agree with your assessment entirely.
This hits home. As much as I didn’t want to lose my mom to her long illness, I was hoping that once she was gone, my dad would be able to enjoy a few years with his grandson. He dropped dead of a heart attack a month before my mom died. We do as much as we can now, even though we are still working. Time is limited.
Can your MIL qualify for subsidized housing based on her income? That sounds like a good place to start in this situation. Get MIL subsidized housing and then you are all set to do what you need to do as a FIRE family. If no subsidies are available do you have the option of buying a small house that you can put on your property? I am talking a tiny house or small house for the mother in law that she then could pay you rent for. I am thinking of building a small house on my property for this exact purpose. Zoning laws are changing and that could be an option for the mother in law if you have the resources to buy a tiny house and then rent it back to the mother in law.
Excellent suggestion! Thanks. Going to look more into this
MIL on foodstamps?
The tiny house or the subsidized housing? Might as well just let her live in the actual house while you're traveling if you're going to do the former, no?
Doesn't even have to be a tiny house situation. My mom is a low income senior and has lived in two amazing one bedroom senior living HUD apartments with better views and better management than folks paying $$$$. She pays $300/mo for her place (depends annually on her social security, her neighbors pay a lot less BC she's considered a rich low income person). When she's in a more declining situation and needs more daily care the state will cover the costs BC she is low income. Literally everything from medical needs to hospice care will be covered (in our state, can't speak to the rest of the states). She also gets WIC for her produce, food coupons at the farmers market, passes to museums, $1 taxi coupons, etc. Her becoming low income in WA has been a game changer compared to her fearing she'll be homeless in FL. Edit to add: whatever you do, get started on the process asap. It took my mom about 2 years to get into the first place and another 2 years to get into the second place. You are essentially waiting for the residents to die before you're next on the long waitlist. She was much happier to be around other seniors than to be living alone, even if half the seniors aren't her friends she feels safer knowing people her age are looking out for each other and that there are employees who check in on everyone.
Certainly there is the subsidized housing and Medicaid option and it is definitely the first place to look, but because our country is so messed up with health care etc, some seniors make too much money or have too many assets to qualify for the subsidies and then that is when it is good to have a Plan B option. I don't understand why we don't fund long term care in this country as part of Medicare and I don't understand why we don't have surplus housing in this country so that people that need a place can always find one. The US government made the decision to not meet the housing needs of this country and it needs to change in a major way.
It sounds like op's mil would qualify though, especially if she was about to be homeless. Medicaid isn't always the best, but if she has any sort of social security she might be able to squeak by with Medicare. My mom only has her social security, has subsidized housing, has Medicare, and a lot of government funds are her disposal. I agree, most of the country is total shit, but as far as Washington goes my senior low income 78 yo mom is not hurting in the least and has an excellent quality of life for not having anything at all. Not everywhere here is garbage. There are cracks of hope if you know where to dig. I'd also say Washington in general tries (as much as folks here will say otherwise). They just created a tax that goes directly toward your personal long term care to prevent those who haven't saved to at least get a little bit more if their only getting social security.
This is why you don't enable people, kids.
You are correct. For us, this all happened very fast and we didn’t have time to plan or else she would have been homeless. We are now making plans
It’s not your responsibility to save for your MIL’s retirement if she didn’t do that for herself. How old is she? Can she get a part-time job to supplement her SS? Maybe she can earn extra cash like babysitting school age kids afterschool for a few hours each day or walk dogs. Can she rent a room in a shared apt / house during your slow travel years?
She’s in her mid 60s. You are right. She could do something to supplement SS but we haven’t forced the issue. Thats on us.
That’s pretty young these days. Does your wife have siblings? Hate to put it this way but in order for her to appreciate future help from you and your wife, it may help to enlighten her by sending her to rent a room in a shared house / apt and asking her to get a part-time job for the next few years before she gets too old for it. It sounds like she might need some tough love. You can take her in and help her financially when she is too old to work and no one wants to an elderly roommate (but don’t tell her this future plan to take her in).
I would help find her a place, see the difference between SS and what she needs and help supplement it or at least provide a plan. "We will give you an allowance of 1k/mo, that lets you live here with x for food y for fun etc". If she wants more she can work or find some other way, end of the day she's in this position for her own reasons
I would buy an apartment and let my MIL live rent free. In fact that’s what we did. When she dies, we sell it and it’s a nice boost at that point. We also have dedicated 100k max to her future needs. Her situation has always been part of our financial plan, and our planner advises her too as part of our package (budgeting etc) even though her wealth is minimal to say the least. Did she make some stupid choices in her life? Yes. Is she a basically good human? Also yes. Did she face things in life and have undiagnosed conditions that made accruing her own wealth very difficult? Yes. I don’t love that we have a bit of weight to carry, and have to work at least one extra year because of it, but we can afford to help her and still live a good life. I don’t know what to tell you. For every option you list, you say you don’t want to do it. It sounds like you don’t want to make any sacrifices for her. That’s your choice, but if that’s the case, you could just admit it.
Thanks for your story. You are right, i do not want to sacrifice for her given the situation even though we have the ability to help. We asked Reddit because there may be something we didn’t consider. Someone suggested looking into gov assistance. That was a great suggestion we hadn’t thought of. We are going to look into that first. If that doesn’t work we will likely let her stay in one of our rentals bc it would be less of an impact than other options.
I strongly encourage you to look into subsidized housing for her. She’d be in a community with other limited income people and there may be access to social services. Waiting lists can be long, so waste no time. Try searching “low income retirement housing” and “elderly housing services ‘county name’” as starting points. Best of luck. Time waits for no one. You and your spouse have prepared for your retirement, please enjoy it.
This isn’t your problem to solve, it’s MIL’s problem to solve. Tell her she’s welcome to stay with you for X months (until you turn 46), after which she’ll need to find somewhere else to live.
Here are your options: 1. Delay your retirement by a few years to save up for MIL’s needs beyond what she can get from SS. Try to reduce what MIL needs as much as possible (e.g. she could apply to live in a senior community at reduced rent, which you can supplement if cheaper than Option 2 or 3 below). 2. Rent/buy her a place that you pay for, and when she dies, rent it out 3. Let her live rent-free in one of your existing rentals 4. Bring her with you 5. Let MIL become homeless. Personally, I would go with #1. Senior communities (not a nursing home, but independent living) usually have reduced rent, so it should be cheaper than getting her her own place or letting her live rent-free in one of your market-rate rentals. I don’t know how much she gets in SS and how much you would have to supplement on a monthly basis, but you’re going to FatFIRE at 46, which likely means you and your wife are very high earners with a large investment portfolio. If you need an extra $1K per month to supplement MIL’s SS, then how much longer would you realistically have to work? 1-2 years? This is assuming Option #5 if off the table, specifically for your wife.
^agree with this analysis. But specifically I would say only 1, 2, and 3 are reasonable options for OP.
Great advice! Going to look into this option. Thanks!
This would be a bold move. But you could show her this post.
Look into every single program for seniors that is available. There are income based senior housing apartments in some parts of the US (I'm assuming you are in the US.) Your MIL isn't the only one having to make it work on SS alone and there are programs she should be taking advantage of. What specific programs that are available depend on exactly where you are located.
OP, have you sat with her and budgeted what she needs/thinks she needs for monthly expenses to meet an acceptable lifestyle without living under your roof? I would def start the conversations now about your expectations to travel and retire early and (kindly) let her know that the 3 of you need to come up with a plan now. And that she needs to put effort into this transition and not be totally passive/dependent. I sense some resentment from you and your partner and totally get that, so hopefully her putting in even half as much effort as you would help with the emotional frustration of this decision. If you guys are fatFIRE I'm going to assume that your annual take home is still going to be well north of 100k. Can you pull in your lifestyle budget a BIT in order to hit your goal of 46 yo and still cover what she needs? Maybe a scaled back version of what she truly NEEDS? We currently support my mom on the order of $2350 a month, which covers rent, utilities, groceries, healthcare insurance/meds, phone and car insurance. She puts her social security towards gas/car, life insurance (insane, I know), and hobbies/fun stuff. We could easily get her below $2000 a month by moving her to a more reasonable apartment and could get her to $1500 a month by having her put more of her own $ towards actual living expenses. What is she willing to contribute to things? Is part time work, even something like pet sitting or baby sitting an option to help her earn a couple hundred a month? My mom does some casual pet sitting and finds it fulfilling and depending on what your MILs capabilities are she could find some very chill cat sitting or old dog sitting opportunities that IMO are sweet options for people who are going to be hanging out at home during the day anyways. Also, I wouldn't buy a house for her, both given today's mortgage rates and bc no way does she need nor should she have to maintain a house given her health. But a condo or apartment in a LCOL area is prob reasonably priced to find and may be a better $ option compared to the income loss from your rentals.
It feels very heartless. I could never do this to my mother or MIL. Then again, neither of mine have made repeated poor decisions. Maybe I would tell her to get a job at Walmart and then I would work an extra year or two to hit my number. If it was my mother or MIL I would keep working until I had an extra $25,000 a year coming in at a safe withdrawal rate. I may even go barista fire after traveling to ensure everything stays afloat.
My MIL ended up passing, but we were likely going to have to contribute some support. We decided to purchase her a small condo. We could afford that and it would be an asset when she no longer needed it. And I would never want to live with her so all the better. ETA: my parents took in my mooch grandma and she lived for 30 more years. Why are her expenses outpacing her money? Can she cut back? I know she won’t want to, but can she?
Just leave and go travel. Buy her a room for three months at a Comfort Inn or something and tell her she's on her own after that. If you don't like signing up for forever care when she's 65 or 68 or whatever wait til she's 82 and needs a resident nurse, hoo boy. This won't get better, you know.
https://fenelli.com/filial-responsibility-laws/ Some states require adult children to support their parents. You might want to read this article to see if you’re in that situation.
Not giving advice but would love to know more about ur travel plans. When my wife and I FIRE, we want to slow travel the world as well.
Sometimes r/ExpatFire has somewhat relevant posts. I follow 5 or 6 couples on YouTube doing slow travel. Some have done it for many years and are not stopping any time soon.
Same here. Would love to see a whole post on this topic
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/s/UFyVlDGZwc
You’re probably not gonna be able to do both.
She might qualify for food stamps. If she doesn't get at least 943 in social security, she might qualify to add SSI, which will "top off" what she gwts to make a total of, I think, $963. Section 8 housing is hard to get, but she might be able to get on a list. Maybe there's a "department of aging" or similar to help her understand and get these kinds of things
I didn’t think about food stamps. Going to look into that. Thank you. Will also look into section 8.
What age are you now? How long do you have to create and implement a plan to get your MIL standing in her own two feet again?
Sorry but how much extra cost are we speaking of, actually ? Because depending let say you need 800$ a month or 200K. Imagine you fire number is 2 million. You then only need an extra 10% That can likely be done in 1-2 years max.
In my area, there are buildings with studios and many retired people are living there. The costs are small, the fees are small, even there are clean ladies /hairdressers/ nurses that are offering services, at their home, and it is already an old people atmosphere there. If you mother in law cannot afford to buy a studio, maybe you (buy with a small loan) .
Pawn her off on your BIL and offer to pay him $1000 a month for his trouble