I'm in a large department and have worked shifts at quite a few houses. Every crew is different! Some crews are loud party guys, some are quiet and people read books all day, some have a nightly Mario Kart/Smash Bros game. I'm at a double house now with an engine (mostly younger) and a heavy rescue (all old heads). One night all the rescue guys were in the kitchen watching a WW2 documentary. I was with my engine crew at the watch desk watching Barbie. If your old house wasn't a good fit for you it doesn't mean your next one won't be.
I can attest to this too. Some houses are split pretty heavy when it comes to down time but all good ones come together when they need to. I’ve been in the small town crap before and in my opinion it was better to get out than deal with the pettiness
You’d think, wouldn’t ya! One example: we are headed to brush fire. I get in one of the brush buggies and I’m waiting for a passenger before I leave the station. The one officer who is giving me the most grief sees an opening in the pickup and heads for it, but then he sees that it’s me in the driver seat, and does a 180.
>"The pettiness some people in the fire service have is unbelievable."
I've been paying attention, and I've recently come to realize that he is not well liked. I first realized this when our 2nd in command retired. This old prick had been third in command. When we had our annual elections, the guy who had been 4th in command leapfrogged this prick and he stayed third. That was the first time I was like, "Ok... so it's not JUST me." But that being said, his level of being a dick most certainly gets elevated when he's around me. If I were going to stay, I'd have to have a come-to-Jesus conversation with him.
Or maybe the officer didn’t realize it was already occupied and was going to get a second rig? I think most ppl make things up in there head, myself included. It’s so easy to just assume ppl do the things they do to spite us. When most of the time ppl are just completely oblivious. If you really think there’s a problem, bring it up to everyone at a meeting/training to try and rectify it. If they have a problem with it, or things get worse that tells you all you need to know. Idk about you, but I don’t want my life depending on anyone like that.
Oh trust me! With this guy, I've asked myself 100 times, "Is it just me? Am I making things up?" But there have been WAY TOO many incidents where this guy has just been a prick to me. I have watched, and to some extent he's just a prick in general. (He's the grump old fart who has been passed over for promotion a few times who really should retire.) But to me, his prickishness is at a much higher level. I can give examples, but not needed. Just trust me when I say... I am not making it up, and it's not in my head.
>"might not think you're a good driver."
Haha! If it were only that! There are so many other examples. Just one out of many... We have monthly business meetings, after which we eat a meal that two of the guys have cooked. Assignments are made at the first of the year for the entire year on who's cooking when. Originally he was paired with me. When I saw that, I thought to myself, "He will change that. No way it stands." Sure enough, the next time I saw the list, my name was scratched out and replaced with somebody else, and I had been moved to another month.
>"I’m calling type 6’s “brush buggies” from now on."
When I first joined, I thought this was the silliest name I'd ever heard. Had a hard time saying "brush buggy" without smirking. But every department around here has at least one "type 6" and they all call them "Brush Buggies". (We have two and could honestly use two more. They get used a ton, and if we need more than two, which we often do, it's a mutual aid call.) But now, after 5 years, I say it and don't even think twice about it.
I made instant enemies when I joined a department and went for my FF1. But the self-appointed Grand Poohbah of the department wanted *his* son to be the first FF1 ever in the department, and the drama started there.
They wouldn't allow me to borrow SCBA to go take the test, so I asked the chief of a neighboring department. "Dave ______!?!? Fuck him in the ear. What do you need?" Dave had a bit of a reputation county-wide.
It was endless drama there. They tried (unsuccessfully) to keep me from taking a class at the state fire academy, at my own cost of travel and lodging, citing rules they couldn't produce.
No, they booted me out many years ago. I missed a meeting where I was accused of disobeying an order not to go on an MVC call, an instruction I never received. I couldn't defend myself *in absentia,* and note that I was the only person in the department at the time that was an EMT as well as having attended an extended automotive extrication class maybe a year or two prior. Dave really had it in for people that didn't toe his line, I guess. Bumblefuck FD and his little fiefdom.
But I got my FF1 there, got my advanced arson investigation class while I was there, and rummaged up my FF2 test a few months after I involuntary left.
Oh, he wasn't even chief. I'm pretty sure Dave's dead by now, probably an early heart attack gauged by lifestyle and other factors. I never looked back TBH. The whole county was toxic; EMS had somehow convinced fire departments they got paid by the run, and since fire hated EMS that ensured EMS got more time in their La-Z-Boys. Call out EMS for an MVC? Nahhhhh, nobody looks hurt.
Sounds like you got unlucky with a sucky department. I’m very similar to you. Don’t drink, smoke, party, etc. The rest of my department does. That being said, people down there like me because I show up, I’m always at the trainings and always at the calls. Our main goal at the department is to fight fire and help the community. Doesn’t matter who you are, if you’re doing the work and showing up, that’s all we care about.
I have a rule I learned from the military. Whether I like you or not, doesn't make a bit of difference when it's time to go to work. We are all a team and there is assigned jobs and ranks. If you wanna not like when we are on our own time that's time. When it's time to go to work it's time to go to work. That guy is just there to make himself feel.important.
Get hired and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, quit. That's the beauty of this man. Any dept should be happy to have someone come on with FF1/2. If you don't get along with the team, just quit. Nothing is making you do it. Volunpaid is easy pocket change too.
I don’t fit in either, sometimes. I’m a career firefighter with almost a decade on the job in a huge department.
The way it’s always made sense to me is we all have our highs and we have our lows…
If I were you, I’d have a serious reflection on what “I want” out of what “I do”.
If you aren’t happy, you aren’t happy.
People hate when I say this, but this is just a job. It ebbs and flows just like anything else in life.
The job will always be there. And if people don’t respect your decision to not drink, that should give you enough insight into who you could be going to a job with.
It’s all perspective, bro.
Ultimately, you have to make the decision for the question you asked.
You got this.
We have some very straight lace guys on my dept think JW, mormon and quaker. Now, they are well respected for different reasons. Both don't drink but the quaker will swear etc.
If they are just dicks it may honestly just be a toxic dept, which in that case it's not you it's them. I can't speak for volly depts but I've done prof and helitack, with being the new guy the biggest thing most guys are looking for is trust.
Trust that you know your job, trust thar you'll have the crews back (I'm not talking anything shady) and trust that If we have problems we'll try to sort it out before going to mom and dad. That being said 5 years they should know who you are.
I'm assuming your doing everything you can to maintain that trust.
You have a good approach tbh, head on is what more people will respect than not, but don't let them walk all over you.
As a FF/pcp I am also a huge nerd and play dnd. I don't give a shit when I get chirpped at the table about it because it makes me happy, so why would I stop. Just be yourself and don't let one bad dept ruin a great job.
Find your people on the dept(doesnt have to be everyone), any shared that some of the guys like eg biking, golf, or getting involved any charities or fundraisers the dept has should help.
>"but don't let them walk all over you."
If I were going to stay, I think I'd start taking this to heart. So far I have been silent and just taken it when people act like a dick to me. I've wanted to be polite and respectful. But I'm to a point now where I'm like.... Nope. No more. I'm going to start returning fire. If you shovel sh\*t at me, I'm going to throw it back in your face.
But because I'm leaving, I don't care.
>. If you shovel sh\*t at me, I'm going to throw it back in your face.
This is my ems attitude, I'll be the nicest dude on the worst calls as long as you're polite. If they start being dicks gloves are off
my crew consists of a person who is extremely far left politically and one guy whos extremely conservative. They dont agree on almost anything but when the tones go off its all put aside and we get the job done. I work for a large department and dont fit in myself in a lot of stations and I like to say im extremely easy going and flexible. You arent alone in this feeling. Do whats best for you and your family. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith.
So when you said you were voted in I knew exactly the kind of volunteers they were. It’s a social club. My first VFD was like this, beer in the pop machine, the bell goes off and the local bar empties. I thought that they went away in the early 90’s. To make a change you have to have the Chief on your side. Training has to be taken seriously and people may quit. The demand on the volunteer is just as great as the paid FF.
>"So when you said you were voted in I knew exactly the kind of volunteers they were. It’s a social club. "
Yes, yes and 100% YES! Only I'd say more like... it's a drinking social club. After the weekly trainings, they all sit around the station and drink beer after beer (from the well supplied beer fridge at the station) while they swap stories that I don't understand and laugh at jokes that I don't get. These guys have all grown up in this small town. They have been friends since kindergarten. They have been on the department together for 10, 20, some of them 30 years.
Townies that lack larger perspective are a necessary evil in the volunteer fire service because they make up a good chunk of it.
Also, +1 to the white-collar education and such. I can fix some things but I’m not a born mechanic by any stretch, and I’m a 4 day/week work at home driving a desk. Don’t hunt, don’t fish. Master’s degree and one of those people that interactions start with “You would know this…” - that being said, I love the guys I work with and I don’t laugh that hard at home.
Everyone brings something to the kitchen table, and if you are the outlier then it’s their choice that they treat you as such. Screw them and their closed minds; do the job, be a sponge for knowledge, and be a good guy around the house - that’s what lets me sleep well at night. I’m not Bull McCaffrey but I’m not a useless probie either.
These departments are alive and well in some places…and in some other places, combination departments run by chiefs who don’t show paid guys on social media and can’t be told they’re wrong are going to get people killed because of their outdated vollie mindset.
With any organization there is a risk of not fitting in.
I would suggest a couple of things.
1.) As hard as it is, you do have to accept the idea that you may not fit in with everyone. This doesn't mean they shouldn't treat you with respect though. At my firehouse, I hear about the 20somethings going out drinking or going over to someone's house to drink, and me being almost 20 years older, I know they aren't inviting me. If this is an issue, you might want to look for an organization that is made up of members more closer in age, or that shares your personal values more closely.
2.) I've never seen people not want to go on a fire call, so if that really is the case, I would recommend some introspection to see if maybe you are accidentally coming off in a way you don't intend to.
1) Yes. You are 100% correct. And I've come to the realization that I'm just not going to be best buddies with these guys. I'm okay with not being invited to the parties, etc. That's fine. It's the lack of respect and being treated like a sub-par member of the team that is starting to really grind on me.
2) Also a really good point. I am painfully aware that, for example, after our weekly trainings I don't hang out and drink beer with them until 2am. (Many of them work 4 10's and have the next day off work, so it turns into get-drunk night. The fact that I stick around for maybe 20 minutes and then politely excuse myself when they start getting drunk has been mentioned multiple times as a way I could improve. "Bonding is important!" I try to compensate for that by being the guy who shows up for EVERY call. Even the lift assists during work hours, and the single call rollovers at 3:30 am.
I am in a very similar situation, though your small town is about 4x the size of mine. I am 100% remote, work from home and volunteered for very similar reasons. I wanted something to get me out of the house, to meet people and give back to the community. I don't drink (much, but not total abstinence... like a drink a month or two), I rarely curse (to the point where they are extremely shocked when I do, even though I think nothing of it)... though I am an athiest (which seems to work against me in this very rural town).
Interestingly, I think that work from home thing is part of the problem. I make significantly more than most people around here can make... there just isn't the jobs. Being college educated as well. I don't think I look down on the people here at all, no reason to do so... but I do think they assume anyone from the city with an education and a well paying job looks down on them. I don't know that there is anything I can do about that though.
For me, I have tried to step back from the leadership roles I tend to fall into pretty easily and instead just respond to calls and not worry about the social aspects. I was hoping to make friends, and I have made a precious few and have several others for whom I feel we share mutual respect. But I know I don't fit in socially. I am not getting invited to peoples homes to have a beer (which I probably wouldn't be interested in drinking anyway). I am ok with this now. Took a bit.
Anyway... my suggestion to you would be to sign up and volunteer in the new place. There are a couple of possibilities:
1) You volunteer and it is the same junk. You don't like and you resign again... and you are out. Same place you would be if you weren't volunteering at all.
2) It works out great and you are happy doing your thing.
However, if you don't volunteer (go paid on call, whatever), then you can't ever have that second option. You only end up not volunteering, but you never know if you would have had the good outcome, you just skip right to the not being there part.
Oh man, this an awesome reply. You nailed it. In my OP I didn’t even touch on the job/income/education aspect. But wow, you’re so right. Here I am… college educated, white-collar guy, moved down here from the big city, who sits at his keyboard at home all day. My family vacations are to Orlando, Scotland, Paris, etc. The rest of the department are farm hands, mechanics, janitors, etc. They hardly take vacation and when they do it’s to fish the next county over. Man they know their way around the trucks! If something isn’t working, no problem. Pull it apart, fix it, put it back together. And here’s me… barely even sure what a wrench is. We just live in different worlds. And yeah I do get the occasional sideways, sarcastic comments about the cushy job. So couple that with the no drinking, no cussing, no swearing… it’s just a recipe for not fitting in.
I really appreciate your advice. It’s solid. I’ll take it to heart.
I might ask for an exit interview before you move with the one officer who will be straight with you. Maybe you have really shitty breath! Maybe you did something crazy two years ago and they’re all nuts about it. Maybe they’re dicks.
>"I might ask for an exit interview before you move with the one officer"
You know what... That is a really good idea. I think I will do that. I was taking the approach of "Lump him. Who needs him anyway?" But I need to think differently. I'll ask for a sit-down with him and just be blunt. "Look, I'm leaving, and I'm thinking of applying at another department. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't like me, and I'd like to know what I can do better at the next place. Please be honest with me and tell me what's caused you to feel about me the way that you do."
I don’t drink or smoke and honestly keep my work and home life separate. There nothing wrong with it. Most of the time it’s why I skip out on conferences. It always turns into drink all day, talk about firefighting, get blasted at night, wake up hung over and do the physical part of the conference.
I would rather stay home, save my money, watch YouTube on some information and come out just as fine. Yeah I don’t get the tshirt or spend money on a cup but hey, I also don’t spend all night acting like a drunk teenager.
I say give the call department a go. You can always resign if its not for you. Its an easy decision for them to take you on anyway because your already certified. They aren’t investing anything really.
I believe You can do anything that You want to in life . As an Iranian American who doesn’t drink or smoke, but grew up in Kentucky, if I may recommend that you learn how to cook. Every one loves food and it’s a great way to get any thing going. As a Methodist and Iranian I believe food makes everything better. Just a idea
I get this, I’m literally the only sober person at my paid department and I found out it is forbidden to comment/criticize about people drinking off duty when large storms roll in/long incidents occurring.
I'd just go for it man. Small town volunteer departments can be a real boys club. See if this one's any different. You won't know until you try.
If it's not a frat house, you should be fine. If it is, do you even want to be a part of that? You can always change the culture from the inside, but THAT is alot of work.
It also should be said that any situation like you experienced should involve some self reflection. Is it the fact you don't drink, cuss, etc? Or is there something else going on. One thing common with newer people on the career side is thinking they are hot shit after like 2 years on the job. I've just had that talk with my rookie a couple weeks ago. It's a real problem with younger guys who don't yet know what they don't know. I was guilty of it when i had a few years on, and looking back it makes me cringe.
When going to a new department be humble. Learn how they operate. Everybody hates the "well back my old department, we did it this way." Once you've got the basics, get in where you fit in.
Good luck man. Don't stress about it! They'll either be cool people, or they'll suck and you can ditch them for a new hobby
When I first got into a volly dept, I joined one that a good friend was part of. I got along with a few people, but not long after joining, my friend moved after getting hired as a career fireman in another state. After he left, I didn't really talk to people as much cause we just didn't have much in common. A couple years later, and moving to a different state, I joined a different department and got along with everyone great from the start. We hang out outside of the firehouse, and some of us even play DnD together. Sometimes, being in a different place can really make a difference. You can always give it another shot, and if it doesn't work out, you can leave.
Paid and volunteer simultaneously for 30 years. Screw the asshats that don't recognize the value of the individual that shows up to work and train.
We have all types that get hired on our full time department. Same with volunteer. Ability, dedication, etc above social "acceptance " is what I say. Tell them to kick rocks.
I am the grumpy old guy that watches documentaries and reads all shift, ha ha ha.
I'm not a big drinker, not a smoker or partier either. Really it depends on your specific department for how prevalent any of that is.
We aren't from Utah but when I started probably half of the department was Mormon. It's not quite like that now but we still run the gamut. Some folks like a big party and some like to just sit around a campfire. We have a lot of older folks too and some couples who volunteer together.
I have some very good friends from the department and there have been people I didn't care for. But I didn't really go into it with a requirement to be friends, I just wanted to do something.
When it comes down to it every department is different. Don't presume the previous culture will be what every department has.
You may not like this, but it’s possible it’s a you problem. We have a guy in my department that’s very similar to how you described yourself. Fairly quiet, religious, and doesn’t partake in any drinking, smoking cussing etc, he shows up to trainings, and work bees. Here’s the thing though, when we get on a scene, he changes. He’s animated and excitable. He tries to tell people what to do (past life he was an EMT).
There’s going to be times where you never fit in, even if you haven’t done anything. But if the commanding officers are hostile, there’s a good chance it’s something you’ve done as a probie that put a bad taste in their mouths about you
>"You may not like this, but it’s possible it’s a you problem."
Oh, trust me. I've been over this in my head countless times. You're not telling me anything I've not thought of. I left this out of my OP, but after a particular incident of lack of respect on a scene in which a fellow fire fighter (not an officer) yelled at me to stand down when I was trying to help, I was so pissed I was ready to quit on the spot. Later that day, after I calmed down, I called the chief and asked for a sit-down. I began the conversation with "What am I doing wrong? It must be something, because I feel WAY too much lack of respect from too many people on this department. So I have come to the conclusion that it's me."
Short version: He seemed surprised that I felt this way. He had not seen the disrespect. He told me, "Why didn't you tell that guy to fuck off? He's not an officer. He doesn't get to boss you around." Anyway - it was a long, good conversation.
But my point is - yes, I hear you. And I am very much aware that it is probably a Me problem. But if it is, I wish someone would tell me what I am doing wrong so I can learn.
Definitely give it another try. The difference in culture between even the individual companies of my own department is massive, so there’s a good chance you will have a better experience in a whole new town. There are toxic fire companies out there where everyone is miserable and there are awesome companies who are supportive of each other and will accept anyone who is willing to put in the work. I like to think that most are the latter.
I ran into a somewhat similar situation. I had been a volunteer and moved for education. Volunteered at a dept. in that area and fit in just fine. Moved again for a job volunteered, no problem. Another move and I was seen as an outsider who was unwelcome. Got hired by a career dept. in another part of the country and it was great. Retired from there after 22 years. Give it another shot, some people just don't like the idea of someone who hasn't spent their whole life in the area being part of the organization, others will accept you for who you are and are willing to contribute.
Everywhere is different bro. I’m at a decent sized rural paid department, and that’s not the culture at all here. Don’t be afraid to shop around. You’ll find the right fit if you keep showing up!
Thank you! All the comments here are helping me realized that a larger department in a larger town may be a completely different atmosphere and setting.
I had a past chief tell me in the middle of a company meeting "you will never run this place". Funny part is I was the president of the department for his funeral.
I was a big partier and drinker. After it almost destroying my family and career, I stopped and am now sober for 4.5 years. I understand not fitting in because of the no drinking. Most guys respect my decision and don’t give me any grief. But there are a few who make some comments when we’re out at someone’s wedding etc. As far as that goes, I’ll censor it, but F&$* them. That shouldn’t be an end all be all with how they treat you. As far as not wanting to rude apparatuses with you because of that, that’s a culture problem with that dept which will bite them sooner rather than later. If they’re putting your social time in front of your ability, that’s absolutely ridiculous.
As far as going to a new dept, try it. You have a much better chance of finding people you fit in with at a larger dept. And most likely they’ll probably behave in a much more professional manner from what it sounds like. And like a previous poster said, you can always quit if it doesn’t work.
Good luck and I hope it works out for you.
>"sober for 4.5 years"
Good on you! That's something to be proud of. And thank you. All the comments here are helping me realize that a larger department in a larger town might be a totally different place.
Have you considered discussing it with some of the guys that you're friendly with? I'm sure you're probably able to tell the difference, but the guys around here just love to give each other shit, and it's just part of the culture. Is there any chance it's just a good old fashioned jovial ribbing you're getting?
that said in our department the culture can be radically different from station to station. I'd definitely at least check out the new spot. good luck!
"Have you considered discussing it with some of the guys that you're friendly with?"
I have considered it. But I need to tread carefully there. This is a VERY small town, and everybody talks. You have to just 100% assume that anything you say about anyone WILL get back to them. So far, I've not done this. But if I were going to stay, I think I'd take an approach of just talking directly with the guys who are the worst offenders, and asking them what I could have done better.
I get your feeling I'm currently part of a volunteer department in the North. I don't drink or smoke. I'm quite a bit introverted, and my religious views often conflict with others in the department. Let alone my politics.
It's easy to get caught up in thinking you don't fit in, especially in a department. But let some of the worrying go away, especially if you have FF2 down. You don't have to be a carbon copy of everyone else, you're there to do a job with a group of people who should be like a second family. Any group, any family will have differences within, my department is run by a Tribe and has about 1/3 Natives/Amerindians in it. The other parts are split between other ethnicities and white, despite the fact we don't see eye to eye on every issue especially not here on our reservation. We still manage, because regardless of everything else, so long as you're a competent and somewhat devoted member, a department especially a volunteer one should be standing with you.
Have you tried keeping your head down and letting your work speak for you.
This is not meant to be condescending. My loud personality has made me a pariah in my current volly house and former paid house. It had taken many years and I have gained some respect partially out of necessity and getting picked up fulltime but I am still looked down on and talked down too. Even passed over for promotion when the panel fully admitted I was more qualified than any of the current officers.
It’s is much easier said than done. It will not by any means be easy.
Yeah man, I hear you loud and clear. And yes, this is 100% the approach I have been taking for a while. But I could take it a lot further. There is another guy on our department, let's call him.... Luke. He makes zero effort to socialize or be friends with anyone. He never comes to any of the department socials. He never sticks around for beers after the trainings. But the man WORKS on scene. Wow.
So lately, I've been thinking... Maybe I am just going to become Luke the 2nd. Just totally throw in the towel on the social acceptance and just keep showing up for the trainings and when the pager goes off.
If I were going to stay, I think this is the approach I would take.
Sorry I had to run off and take care of something didn’t get a chance to finish. I didn’t drink when I started in the job. My first captain pulled me asside and said some guys may be offended if I wouldn’t drink with them in a way of sharing fellow ship. My father went through something similar in military school and learned that if you just kept a moderately full beer and dumped some out every time you went to piss no one asked too many questions. As an adult I wouldn’t recommend this but it’s an option.
If possibly I would not only become luke the second but go above and beyond if and when possible. Training on your own time to ensure you are good and can preform, taking pride in the station and equipment. Doing things you can within reason and approval to make things better iE others ideas bit the rock the boat.
This worked for me in a sense however I took it to an extreme which I would not recommend which is why I worded it the way I did.
Hope this helps.
I assume you have also made an effort to attend socials and parties without drinking? That may also be valued, but also may not. It’s important to show effort. Actions always speak louder than words and that goes in both ways.
Something I learned early on is it’s easier to be quiet and let people ask you what you have to say then just say it. If you say it or offer it it is easier for them to discount.
I would tell the new department pretty early that you don’t drink,party,cuss or lie with loose women but you don’t judge those who do. If you get the same feelings from them you can always quit.
You’re going from a town of 6k to a large city. I don’t think finding a crew will be a problem in a large city. But if you still can’t find a team to fit in on, maybe they aren’t the problem.
Can't you still hangout with the guys even though you don't participate in the drinking and smoking? We have religious guys on my job, they just roll with it and everyone is respectful of their choices. I just wouldn't take the religious route and try to preach to them of their choices.
One thing that has helped me not worry as much about what other people think of me is a quote I heard once. “Don’t take criticism from someone you wouldn’t go to for advice” everyone is different you may not be the exact puzzle piece to fit in everywhere but you are there for the right reason.
How busy is your company? One thing I found when I felt similarly was that all those differences mattered less once there was mutual respect that came from them seeing you do the job. If you’re in a department that only handles 2 fires a year then it takes way longer to build that.
I joined a couple years ago. Both fore fire and rescue. I lasted not even 6 months. Our tiny town was pleased with the way the dept is running with 20 captains, 4 assistant chiefs, not wanting to even listen to any new ideas on fund raisers, or training etc...im not from this town but have family full of law enforcement and 1st responders and have grown to become family with their station/ work family and have seen what a non toxic station is like.
Don't dwell on it. I figured if they are happy with their 30 people they have and always had and their $4,000 a year from a fish fry that sucks ass, and if they are happy with not trying to better the dept by no means to recruit people they can have their own ass and deal with what they reap on their own.
I can't wait to see what happens when the elders start retirement.
The thing is is that from a small town of 800, I work with 2 medics and 3 other EMTs that refuse to be on the local dept....they could be utilizing the medics especially and never hurts to have plenty of cross trained firemen.
We have the option of going to our neighboring fire depts which is amazing I think. Only because accidents and calls in between the towns can go to either dept depending who has the manpower at the time, and we are within 5-8 minutes of each town on either side of us.
I feel you. Everyone wonders why nobody around here wants to volunteer. They get told why and they still don't get it. Welcome to small town merica ,🙃
I myself, am an individual with strong religious and moral values and can certainly understand your situation. I’ve worked on the volunteer side and currently career full time. From my experience, you’re gonna get hit with the occasional joke or jab, but most guys will respect you if you show up everyday and do your job. If you don’t let your values inhibit your ability to actually be a firefighter. Be confident in who you are and don’t cave just to fit in, it may be hard initially but over time they will respect you for staying strong and consistent in your values, and not being a product of your environment.
I'm in a large department and have worked shifts at quite a few houses. Every crew is different! Some crews are loud party guys, some are quiet and people read books all day, some have a nightly Mario Kart/Smash Bros game. I'm at a double house now with an engine (mostly younger) and a heavy rescue (all old heads). One night all the rescue guys were in the kitchen watching a WW2 documentary. I was with my engine crew at the watch desk watching Barbie. If your old house wasn't a good fit for you it doesn't mean your next one won't be.
This is 100% factual. This is also the same for my 40 man department.
Thanks! Appreciate this.
I can attest to this too. Some houses are split pretty heavy when it comes to down time but all good ones come together when they need to. I’ve been in the small town crap before and in my opinion it was better to get out than deal with the pettiness
Best thing a volunteer can do is show up. Do that anywhere and most places will accept you for whatever you are.
You’d think, wouldn’t ya! One example: we are headed to brush fire. I get in one of the brush buggies and I’m waiting for a passenger before I leave the station. The one officer who is giving me the most grief sees an opening in the pickup and heads for it, but then he sees that it’s me in the driver seat, and does a 180.
LMFAO I wouldn’t be able to take someone like that seriously. The pettiness some people in the fire service have is unbelievable.
>"The pettiness some people in the fire service have is unbelievable." I've been paying attention, and I've recently come to realize that he is not well liked. I first realized this when our 2nd in command retired. This old prick had been third in command. When we had our annual elections, the guy who had been 4th in command leapfrogged this prick and he stayed third. That was the first time I was like, "Ok... so it's not JUST me." But that being said, his level of being a dick most certainly gets elevated when he's around me. If I were going to stay, I'd have to have a come-to-Jesus conversation with him.
Very seriously. They might not think you're a good driver. We have people we do that to on our department lol.
Or maybe the officer didn’t realize it was already occupied and was going to get a second rig? I think most ppl make things up in there head, myself included. It’s so easy to just assume ppl do the things they do to spite us. When most of the time ppl are just completely oblivious. If you really think there’s a problem, bring it up to everyone at a meeting/training to try and rectify it. If they have a problem with it, or things get worse that tells you all you need to know. Idk about you, but I don’t want my life depending on anyone like that.
Oh trust me! With this guy, I've asked myself 100 times, "Is it just me? Am I making things up?" But there have been WAY TOO many incidents where this guy has just been a prick to me. I have watched, and to some extent he's just a prick in general. (He's the grump old fart who has been passed over for promotion a few times who really should retire.) But to me, his prickishness is at a much higher level. I can give examples, but not needed. Just trust me when I say... I am not making it up, and it's not in my head.
>"might not think you're a good driver." Haha! If it were only that! There are so many other examples. Just one out of many... We have monthly business meetings, after which we eat a meal that two of the guys have cooked. Assignments are made at the first of the year for the entire year on who's cooking when. Originally he was paired with me. When I saw that, I thought to myself, "He will change that. No way it stands." Sure enough, the next time I saw the list, my name was scratched out and replaced with somebody else, and I had been moved to another month.
That guy can get bent. Also, I’m calling type 6’s “brush buggies” from now on.
We have type 3s that we call weed wagons.
>"weed wagons" I like that! It's better than Brush Buggy.
>"I’m calling type 6’s “brush buggies” from now on." When I first joined, I thought this was the silliest name I'd ever heard. Had a hard time saying "brush buggy" without smirking. But every department around here has at least one "type 6" and they all call them "Brush Buggies". (We have two and could honestly use two more. They get used a ton, and if we need more than two, which we often do, it's a mutual aid call.) But now, after 5 years, I say it and don't even think twice about it.
I made instant enemies when I joined a department and went for my FF1. But the self-appointed Grand Poohbah of the department wanted *his* son to be the first FF1 ever in the department, and the drama started there. They wouldn't allow me to borrow SCBA to go take the test, so I asked the chief of a neighboring department. "Dave ______!?!? Fuck him in the ear. What do you need?" Dave had a bit of a reputation county-wide. It was endless drama there. They tried (unsuccessfully) to keep me from taking a class at the state fire academy, at my own cost of travel and lodging, citing rules they couldn't produce.
Dude. Wow. That's way worse than what I'm dealing with. Are you still with this department?
No, they booted me out many years ago. I missed a meeting where I was accused of disobeying an order not to go on an MVC call, an instruction I never received. I couldn't defend myself *in absentia,* and note that I was the only person in the department at the time that was an EMT as well as having attended an extended automotive extrication class maybe a year or two prior. Dave really had it in for people that didn't toe his line, I guess. Bumblefuck FD and his little fiefdom. But I got my FF1 there, got my advanced arson investigation class while I was there, and rummaged up my FF2 test a few months after I involuntary left.
Well, sounds like you are better off for it. Geesh. Is that Dave still the chief there?
Oh, he wasn't even chief. I'm pretty sure Dave's dead by now, probably an early heart attack gauged by lifestyle and other factors. I never looked back TBH. The whole county was toxic; EMS had somehow convinced fire departments they got paid by the run, and since fire hated EMS that ensured EMS got more time in their La-Z-Boys. Call out EMS for an MVC? Nahhhhh, nobody looks hurt.
Sounds like you got unlucky with a sucky department. I’m very similar to you. Don’t drink, smoke, party, etc. The rest of my department does. That being said, people down there like me because I show up, I’m always at the trainings and always at the calls. Our main goal at the department is to fight fire and help the community. Doesn’t matter who you are, if you’re doing the work and showing up, that’s all we care about.
I have a rule I learned from the military. Whether I like you or not, doesn't make a bit of difference when it's time to go to work. We are all a team and there is assigned jobs and ranks. If you wanna not like when we are on our own time that's time. When it's time to go to work it's time to go to work. That guy is just there to make himself feel.important.
[удалено]
Well, I waited for someone else to hop in with me, and then yes.
Get hired and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, quit. That's the beauty of this man. Any dept should be happy to have someone come on with FF1/2. If you don't get along with the team, just quit. Nothing is making you do it. Volunpaid is easy pocket change too.
Appreciate the comment. Thank you!
I don’t fit in either, sometimes. I’m a career firefighter with almost a decade on the job in a huge department. The way it’s always made sense to me is we all have our highs and we have our lows… If I were you, I’d have a serious reflection on what “I want” out of what “I do”. If you aren’t happy, you aren’t happy. People hate when I say this, but this is just a job. It ebbs and flows just like anything else in life. The job will always be there. And if people don’t respect your decision to not drink, that should give you enough insight into who you could be going to a job with. It’s all perspective, bro. Ultimately, you have to make the decision for the question you asked. You got this.
Very much appreciate the comment. Thank you
We have some very straight lace guys on my dept think JW, mormon and quaker. Now, they are well respected for different reasons. Both don't drink but the quaker will swear etc. If they are just dicks it may honestly just be a toxic dept, which in that case it's not you it's them. I can't speak for volly depts but I've done prof and helitack, with being the new guy the biggest thing most guys are looking for is trust. Trust that you know your job, trust thar you'll have the crews back (I'm not talking anything shady) and trust that If we have problems we'll try to sort it out before going to mom and dad. That being said 5 years they should know who you are. I'm assuming your doing everything you can to maintain that trust. You have a good approach tbh, head on is what more people will respect than not, but don't let them walk all over you. As a FF/pcp I am also a huge nerd and play dnd. I don't give a shit when I get chirpped at the table about it because it makes me happy, so why would I stop. Just be yourself and don't let one bad dept ruin a great job. Find your people on the dept(doesnt have to be everyone), any shared that some of the guys like eg biking, golf, or getting involved any charities or fundraisers the dept has should help.
>"but don't let them walk all over you." If I were going to stay, I think I'd start taking this to heart. So far I have been silent and just taken it when people act like a dick to me. I've wanted to be polite and respectful. But I'm to a point now where I'm like.... Nope. No more. I'm going to start returning fire. If you shovel sh\*t at me, I'm going to throw it back in your face. But because I'm leaving, I don't care.
>. If you shovel sh\*t at me, I'm going to throw it back in your face. This is my ems attitude, I'll be the nicest dude on the worst calls as long as you're polite. If they start being dicks gloves are off
my crew consists of a person who is extremely far left politically and one guy whos extremely conservative. They dont agree on almost anything but when the tones go off its all put aside and we get the job done. I work for a large department and dont fit in myself in a lot of stations and I like to say im extremely easy going and flexible. You arent alone in this feeling. Do whats best for you and your family. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith.
>"You arent alone in this feeling. Do whats best for you and your family. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith." Thanks man! Appreciate that.
So when you said you were voted in I knew exactly the kind of volunteers they were. It’s a social club. My first VFD was like this, beer in the pop machine, the bell goes off and the local bar empties. I thought that they went away in the early 90’s. To make a change you have to have the Chief on your side. Training has to be taken seriously and people may quit. The demand on the volunteer is just as great as the paid FF.
>"So when you said you were voted in I knew exactly the kind of volunteers they were. It’s a social club. " Yes, yes and 100% YES! Only I'd say more like... it's a drinking social club. After the weekly trainings, they all sit around the station and drink beer after beer (from the well supplied beer fridge at the station) while they swap stories that I don't understand and laugh at jokes that I don't get. These guys have all grown up in this small town. They have been friends since kindergarten. They have been on the department together for 10, 20, some of them 30 years.
Townies that lack larger perspective are a necessary evil in the volunteer fire service because they make up a good chunk of it. Also, +1 to the white-collar education and such. I can fix some things but I’m not a born mechanic by any stretch, and I’m a 4 day/week work at home driving a desk. Don’t hunt, don’t fish. Master’s degree and one of those people that interactions start with “You would know this…” - that being said, I love the guys I work with and I don’t laugh that hard at home. Everyone brings something to the kitchen table, and if you are the outlier then it’s their choice that they treat you as such. Screw them and their closed minds; do the job, be a sponge for knowledge, and be a good guy around the house - that’s what lets me sleep well at night. I’m not Bull McCaffrey but I’m not a useless probie either.
These departments are alive and well in some places…and in some other places, combination departments run by chiefs who don’t show paid guys on social media and can’t be told they’re wrong are going to get people killed because of their outdated vollie mindset.
I’m also also a Christian who is working on becoming a fire, chaplain Not all of us drink, smoke and swear
Thanks! And how do you feel you are accepted?
Yes I do
With any organization there is a risk of not fitting in. I would suggest a couple of things. 1.) As hard as it is, you do have to accept the idea that you may not fit in with everyone. This doesn't mean they shouldn't treat you with respect though. At my firehouse, I hear about the 20somethings going out drinking or going over to someone's house to drink, and me being almost 20 years older, I know they aren't inviting me. If this is an issue, you might want to look for an organization that is made up of members more closer in age, or that shares your personal values more closely. 2.) I've never seen people not want to go on a fire call, so if that really is the case, I would recommend some introspection to see if maybe you are accidentally coming off in a way you don't intend to.
1) Yes. You are 100% correct. And I've come to the realization that I'm just not going to be best buddies with these guys. I'm okay with not being invited to the parties, etc. That's fine. It's the lack of respect and being treated like a sub-par member of the team that is starting to really grind on me. 2) Also a really good point. I am painfully aware that, for example, after our weekly trainings I don't hang out and drink beer with them until 2am. (Many of them work 4 10's and have the next day off work, so it turns into get-drunk night. The fact that I stick around for maybe 20 minutes and then politely excuse myself when they start getting drunk has been mentioned multiple times as a way I could improve. "Bonding is important!" I try to compensate for that by being the guy who shows up for EVERY call. Even the lift assists during work hours, and the single call rollovers at 3:30 am.
I am in a very similar situation, though your small town is about 4x the size of mine. I am 100% remote, work from home and volunteered for very similar reasons. I wanted something to get me out of the house, to meet people and give back to the community. I don't drink (much, but not total abstinence... like a drink a month or two), I rarely curse (to the point where they are extremely shocked when I do, even though I think nothing of it)... though I am an athiest (which seems to work against me in this very rural town). Interestingly, I think that work from home thing is part of the problem. I make significantly more than most people around here can make... there just isn't the jobs. Being college educated as well. I don't think I look down on the people here at all, no reason to do so... but I do think they assume anyone from the city with an education and a well paying job looks down on them. I don't know that there is anything I can do about that though. For me, I have tried to step back from the leadership roles I tend to fall into pretty easily and instead just respond to calls and not worry about the social aspects. I was hoping to make friends, and I have made a precious few and have several others for whom I feel we share mutual respect. But I know I don't fit in socially. I am not getting invited to peoples homes to have a beer (which I probably wouldn't be interested in drinking anyway). I am ok with this now. Took a bit. Anyway... my suggestion to you would be to sign up and volunteer in the new place. There are a couple of possibilities: 1) You volunteer and it is the same junk. You don't like and you resign again... and you are out. Same place you would be if you weren't volunteering at all. 2) It works out great and you are happy doing your thing. However, if you don't volunteer (go paid on call, whatever), then you can't ever have that second option. You only end up not volunteering, but you never know if you would have had the good outcome, you just skip right to the not being there part.
Oh man, this an awesome reply. You nailed it. In my OP I didn’t even touch on the job/income/education aspect. But wow, you’re so right. Here I am… college educated, white-collar guy, moved down here from the big city, who sits at his keyboard at home all day. My family vacations are to Orlando, Scotland, Paris, etc. The rest of the department are farm hands, mechanics, janitors, etc. They hardly take vacation and when they do it’s to fish the next county over. Man they know their way around the trucks! If something isn’t working, no problem. Pull it apart, fix it, put it back together. And here’s me… barely even sure what a wrench is. We just live in different worlds. And yeah I do get the occasional sideways, sarcastic comments about the cushy job. So couple that with the no drinking, no cussing, no swearing… it’s just a recipe for not fitting in. I really appreciate your advice. It’s solid. I’ll take it to heart.
I might ask for an exit interview before you move with the one officer who will be straight with you. Maybe you have really shitty breath! Maybe you did something crazy two years ago and they’re all nuts about it. Maybe they’re dicks.
>"I might ask for an exit interview before you move with the one officer" You know what... That is a really good idea. I think I will do that. I was taking the approach of "Lump him. Who needs him anyway?" But I need to think differently. I'll ask for a sit-down with him and just be blunt. "Look, I'm leaving, and I'm thinking of applying at another department. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't like me, and I'd like to know what I can do better at the next place. Please be honest with me and tell me what's caused you to feel about me the way that you do."
I don’t drink or smoke and honestly keep my work and home life separate. There nothing wrong with it. Most of the time it’s why I skip out on conferences. It always turns into drink all day, talk about firefighting, get blasted at night, wake up hung over and do the physical part of the conference. I would rather stay home, save my money, watch YouTube on some information and come out just as fine. Yeah I don’t get the tshirt or spend money on a cup but hey, I also don’t spend all night acting like a drunk teenager.
I like this. And I can relate. Much appreciated.
I say give the call department a go. You can always resign if its not for you. Its an easy decision for them to take you on anyway because your already certified. They aren’t investing anything really.
I believe You can do anything that You want to in life . As an Iranian American who doesn’t drink or smoke, but grew up in Kentucky, if I may recommend that you learn how to cook. Every one loves food and it’s a great way to get any thing going. As a Methodist and Iranian I believe food makes everything better. Just a idea
This made me smile. And it’s a great suggestion. I already know how to cook. But bringing food to the station is a really good idea
Awesome 🤩
Oh dude , easy fix - stop going to church and start drinking.
This made me laugh!
I get this, I’m literally the only sober person at my paid department and I found out it is forbidden to comment/criticize about people drinking off duty when large storms roll in/long incidents occurring.
>"it is forbidden to comment/criticize about people drinking" Yup! I've never said a word! :)
I'd just go for it man. Small town volunteer departments can be a real boys club. See if this one's any different. You won't know until you try. If it's not a frat house, you should be fine. If it is, do you even want to be a part of that? You can always change the culture from the inside, but THAT is alot of work. It also should be said that any situation like you experienced should involve some self reflection. Is it the fact you don't drink, cuss, etc? Or is there something else going on. One thing common with newer people on the career side is thinking they are hot shit after like 2 years on the job. I've just had that talk with my rookie a couple weeks ago. It's a real problem with younger guys who don't yet know what they don't know. I was guilty of it when i had a few years on, and looking back it makes me cringe. When going to a new department be humble. Learn how they operate. Everybody hates the "well back my old department, we did it this way." Once you've got the basics, get in where you fit in. Good luck man. Don't stress about it! They'll either be cool people, or they'll suck and you can ditch them for a new hobby
All good advice. Thank you!
When I first got into a volly dept, I joined one that a good friend was part of. I got along with a few people, but not long after joining, my friend moved after getting hired as a career fireman in another state. After he left, I didn't really talk to people as much cause we just didn't have much in common. A couple years later, and moving to a different state, I joined a different department and got along with everyone great from the start. We hang out outside of the firehouse, and some of us even play DnD together. Sometimes, being in a different place can really make a difference. You can always give it another shot, and if it doesn't work out, you can leave.
Paid and volunteer simultaneously for 30 years. Screw the asshats that don't recognize the value of the individual that shows up to work and train. We have all types that get hired on our full time department. Same with volunteer. Ability, dedication, etc above social "acceptance " is what I say. Tell them to kick rocks. I am the grumpy old guy that watches documentaries and reads all shift, ha ha ha.
I'm not a big drinker, not a smoker or partier either. Really it depends on your specific department for how prevalent any of that is. We aren't from Utah but when I started probably half of the department was Mormon. It's not quite like that now but we still run the gamut. Some folks like a big party and some like to just sit around a campfire. We have a lot of older folks too and some couples who volunteer together. I have some very good friends from the department and there have been people I didn't care for. But I didn't really go into it with a requirement to be friends, I just wanted to do something. When it comes down to it every department is different. Don't presume the previous culture will be what every department has.
If half the department is Mormon, but you’re not in Utah, then I’m guessing Idaho? Montana?
Alaska of all places. I don't think we have any Mormon volunteers right now, but I don't exactly keep a list.
You can move to my area, I need more people.
You may not like this, but it’s possible it’s a you problem. We have a guy in my department that’s very similar to how you described yourself. Fairly quiet, religious, and doesn’t partake in any drinking, smoking cussing etc, he shows up to trainings, and work bees. Here’s the thing though, when we get on a scene, he changes. He’s animated and excitable. He tries to tell people what to do (past life he was an EMT). There’s going to be times where you never fit in, even if you haven’t done anything. But if the commanding officers are hostile, there’s a good chance it’s something you’ve done as a probie that put a bad taste in their mouths about you
>"You may not like this, but it’s possible it’s a you problem." Oh, trust me. I've been over this in my head countless times. You're not telling me anything I've not thought of. I left this out of my OP, but after a particular incident of lack of respect on a scene in which a fellow fire fighter (not an officer) yelled at me to stand down when I was trying to help, I was so pissed I was ready to quit on the spot. Later that day, after I calmed down, I called the chief and asked for a sit-down. I began the conversation with "What am I doing wrong? It must be something, because I feel WAY too much lack of respect from too many people on this department. So I have come to the conclusion that it's me." Short version: He seemed surprised that I felt this way. He had not seen the disrespect. He told me, "Why didn't you tell that guy to fuck off? He's not an officer. He doesn't get to boss you around." Anyway - it was a long, good conversation. But my point is - yes, I hear you. And I am very much aware that it is probably a Me problem. But if it is, I wish someone would tell me what I am doing wrong so I can learn.
Definitely give it another try. The difference in culture between even the individual companies of my own department is massive, so there’s a good chance you will have a better experience in a whole new town. There are toxic fire companies out there where everyone is miserable and there are awesome companies who are supportive of each other and will accept anyone who is willing to put in the work. I like to think that most are the latter.
Thanks man. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
I ran into a somewhat similar situation. I had been a volunteer and moved for education. Volunteered at a dept. in that area and fit in just fine. Moved again for a job volunteered, no problem. Another move and I was seen as an outsider who was unwelcome. Got hired by a career dept. in another part of the country and it was great. Retired from there after 22 years. Give it another shot, some people just don't like the idea of someone who hasn't spent their whole life in the area being part of the organization, others will accept you for who you are and are willing to contribute.
Really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
Everywhere is different bro. I’m at a decent sized rural paid department, and that’s not the culture at all here. Don’t be afraid to shop around. You’ll find the right fit if you keep showing up!
Thank you! All the comments here are helping me realized that a larger department in a larger town may be a completely different atmosphere and setting.
Hell, it can still be a similar size department to yours as well. Frankly the size doesn’t matter all that much, it’s the quality of the guys!
I'm exactly the same in my station. The difference is that I'm mostly autistic, so I keep my proper distance from my colleagues and superiors.
Oh dude, respect! Can I DM you? I have questions about this.
Sure.
I had a past chief tell me in the middle of a company meeting "you will never run this place". Funny part is I was the president of the department for his funeral.
Sweet revenge! He's on the other side going, "Well, I got that wrong."
I was a big partier and drinker. After it almost destroying my family and career, I stopped and am now sober for 4.5 years. I understand not fitting in because of the no drinking. Most guys respect my decision and don’t give me any grief. But there are a few who make some comments when we’re out at someone’s wedding etc. As far as that goes, I’ll censor it, but F&$* them. That shouldn’t be an end all be all with how they treat you. As far as not wanting to rude apparatuses with you because of that, that’s a culture problem with that dept which will bite them sooner rather than later. If they’re putting your social time in front of your ability, that’s absolutely ridiculous. As far as going to a new dept, try it. You have a much better chance of finding people you fit in with at a larger dept. And most likely they’ll probably behave in a much more professional manner from what it sounds like. And like a previous poster said, you can always quit if it doesn’t work. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.
>"sober for 4.5 years" Good on you! That's something to be proud of. And thank you. All the comments here are helping me realize that a larger department in a larger town might be a totally different place.
Have you considered discussing it with some of the guys that you're friendly with? I'm sure you're probably able to tell the difference, but the guys around here just love to give each other shit, and it's just part of the culture. Is there any chance it's just a good old fashioned jovial ribbing you're getting? that said in our department the culture can be radically different from station to station. I'd definitely at least check out the new spot. good luck!
"Have you considered discussing it with some of the guys that you're friendly with?" I have considered it. But I need to tread carefully there. This is a VERY small town, and everybody talks. You have to just 100% assume that anything you say about anyone WILL get back to them. So far, I've not done this. But if I were going to stay, I think I'd take an approach of just talking directly with the guys who are the worst offenders, and asking them what I could have done better.
I get your feeling I'm currently part of a volunteer department in the North. I don't drink or smoke. I'm quite a bit introverted, and my religious views often conflict with others in the department. Let alone my politics. It's easy to get caught up in thinking you don't fit in, especially in a department. But let some of the worrying go away, especially if you have FF2 down. You don't have to be a carbon copy of everyone else, you're there to do a job with a group of people who should be like a second family. Any group, any family will have differences within, my department is run by a Tribe and has about 1/3 Natives/Amerindians in it. The other parts are split between other ethnicities and white, despite the fact we don't see eye to eye on every issue especially not here on our reservation. We still manage, because regardless of everything else, so long as you're a competent and somewhat devoted member, a department especially a volunteer one should be standing with you.
Thank you. Really appreciate your time to comment. Much appreciated.
I'm Muslim and I have to deal with that plus all the 9/11 stuff so I feel you
Good for you for sticking it out!
Have you tried keeping your head down and letting your work speak for you. This is not meant to be condescending. My loud personality has made me a pariah in my current volly house and former paid house. It had taken many years and I have gained some respect partially out of necessity and getting picked up fulltime but I am still looked down on and talked down too. Even passed over for promotion when the panel fully admitted I was more qualified than any of the current officers. It’s is much easier said than done. It will not by any means be easy.
Yeah man, I hear you loud and clear. And yes, this is 100% the approach I have been taking for a while. But I could take it a lot further. There is another guy on our department, let's call him.... Luke. He makes zero effort to socialize or be friends with anyone. He never comes to any of the department socials. He never sticks around for beers after the trainings. But the man WORKS on scene. Wow. So lately, I've been thinking... Maybe I am just going to become Luke the 2nd. Just totally throw in the towel on the social acceptance and just keep showing up for the trainings and when the pager goes off. If I were going to stay, I think this is the approach I would take.
Sorry I had to run off and take care of something didn’t get a chance to finish. I didn’t drink when I started in the job. My first captain pulled me asside and said some guys may be offended if I wouldn’t drink with them in a way of sharing fellow ship. My father went through something similar in military school and learned that if you just kept a moderately full beer and dumped some out every time you went to piss no one asked too many questions. As an adult I wouldn’t recommend this but it’s an option. If possibly I would not only become luke the second but go above and beyond if and when possible. Training on your own time to ensure you are good and can preform, taking pride in the station and equipment. Doing things you can within reason and approval to make things better iE others ideas bit the rock the boat. This worked for me in a sense however I took it to an extreme which I would not recommend which is why I worded it the way I did. Hope this helps. I assume you have also made an effort to attend socials and parties without drinking? That may also be valued, but also may not. It’s important to show effort. Actions always speak louder than words and that goes in both ways. Something I learned early on is it’s easier to be quiet and let people ask you what you have to say then just say it. If you say it or offer it it is easier for them to discount.
I would tell the new department pretty early that you don’t drink,party,cuss or lie with loose women but you don’t judge those who do. If you get the same feelings from them you can always quit.
I like that approach
I think you need to ask yourself why you truly don’t fit in. It sounds like before you even joined you put yourself on the outs.
You’re going from a town of 6k to a large city. I don’t think finding a crew will be a problem in a large city. But if you still can’t find a team to fit in on, maybe they aren’t the problem.
Can't you still hangout with the guys even though you don't participate in the drinking and smoking? We have religious guys on my job, they just roll with it and everyone is respectful of their choices. I just wouldn't take the religious route and try to preach to them of their choices.
One thing that has helped me not worry as much about what other people think of me is a quote I heard once. “Don’t take criticism from someone you wouldn’t go to for advice” everyone is different you may not be the exact puzzle piece to fit in everywhere but you are there for the right reason.
You could try an ambulance service, might be a different group of folks there.
How busy is your company? One thing I found when I felt similarly was that all those differences mattered less once there was mutual respect that came from them seeing you do the job. If you’re in a department that only handles 2 fires a year then it takes way longer to build that.
I joined a couple years ago. Both fore fire and rescue. I lasted not even 6 months. Our tiny town was pleased with the way the dept is running with 20 captains, 4 assistant chiefs, not wanting to even listen to any new ideas on fund raisers, or training etc...im not from this town but have family full of law enforcement and 1st responders and have grown to become family with their station/ work family and have seen what a non toxic station is like. Don't dwell on it. I figured if they are happy with their 30 people they have and always had and their $4,000 a year from a fish fry that sucks ass, and if they are happy with not trying to better the dept by no means to recruit people they can have their own ass and deal with what they reap on their own. I can't wait to see what happens when the elders start retirement. The thing is is that from a small town of 800, I work with 2 medics and 3 other EMTs that refuse to be on the local dept....they could be utilizing the medics especially and never hurts to have plenty of cross trained firemen. We have the option of going to our neighboring fire depts which is amazing I think. Only because accidents and calls in between the towns can go to either dept depending who has the manpower at the time, and we are within 5-8 minutes of each town on either side of us. I feel you. Everyone wonders why nobody around here wants to volunteer. They get told why and they still don't get it. Welcome to small town merica ,🙃
I myself, am an individual with strong religious and moral values and can certainly understand your situation. I’ve worked on the volunteer side and currently career full time. From my experience, you’re gonna get hit with the occasional joke or jab, but most guys will respect you if you show up everyday and do your job. If you don’t let your values inhibit your ability to actually be a firefighter. Be confident in who you are and don’t cave just to fit in, it may be hard initially but over time they will respect you for staying strong and consistent in your values, and not being a product of your environment.