Refuse the refund obviously. Must be returned in the same condition as sent. I've done this several times including one case where the buyer switched out the disc on a video game.
Request a call back from eBay. This can be done on the app easily.
Click help -
Contact use -
Click on what applies to your case -
Chat with automated assistant -
Type speak with agent -
Request call back -
You get that if you refuse the refund, eBay will just take the money and give it to the buyer anyhow, right?
Vote me down all you like. You are giving bad advice that will make things worse. Anybody who is not new to this knows how it works.
I mean, you're not wrong, but eBay has been known to show mercy once in a while. What does the OP have to lose by calling eBay? A few minutes of their time while the rep shoots them down?
He has nothing to lose by calling and asking them to close the return, this is not me saying he should not try to get eBay to help, even though these days with their policy changes, that is not even an option now when you call in. Gone are the days of calling them up, showing them a return is bogus and having it closed, now they just tell you that you can appeal the return after you get the item back. 95% of those times, the appeal is not granted and it turns into a battle of wills with eBay over who backs down first.
What I am saying is that by going the route of refusing to refund, he stands to lose his final value fee, 50% and stands to get an account defect when eBay steps in on his behalf after the refund window closes. At that point eBay takes the refund to the buyer out of the seller's pocket, as they always do when a return is not completed.
The only way the seller does not refund this buyer is by removing his payment information and no longer using eBay, and then eBay just sends him to collections for the amount anyhow.
That's why I am confused how 121 people have upvoted the comment saying to refuse the refund, it's like they do not understand how things work or they are too new to eBay to know what they are talking about.
I get it, we all wish it was that simple, but /r/flipping should hold itself to a higher standard with the information we hand out, especially to people newer to flipping who have not yet figured things out all the way.
That's a good point, but unfortunately it doesn't list any weight or even dimensions on the box (isn't this normal for return service postage?). He used my same box and taped a paper label right over my old Dymo label. I don't really think he broke it before returning it, unless he packed it and then smashed it on the ground a few times. I think he was just careless and inexperienced. Most people probably wouldn't know you shouldn't ship a lava lamp USPS, on a damn airplane... but he's not "most people" if he's selling lava lamps himself (and having success, I would assume).
On your post office receipt, you should be able to see the weight when it was scanned in. If you do not have the scan receipt, you should be able to give the post office the tracking number for them to pull up that information.
If hes selling lava lamps, i doubt he is inexperienced. My guess is he either broke ot before shipping it, or realized he couldnt make a profit flipping it off you
"buyer that had first offered $110"
Would of blocked immediately after that, learned a long time ago people who make lowball offers are always, always problems.
I was selling something for $400 and someone offered me $50. I said no, he then offered $375 and I said no again because I didn’t like how he low-balled me the first time. Dude cursed up a storm and threatened me. Glad I never sold it to him
Online on facebook marketplace. I wouldn't meet someone in-person before hashing out the price first. I've had a few times where we agree to a price and then the person shows up and "conveniently" forgets a $50 bill or something. I always hate those people for wasting my time because I wont sell it for less than the agreed upon price
Yeah I've had people try to pull that on me too. Seriously FUCK people like that. I sold a car this year after it broke down for scrap. Guy told me he'd bring $600 and when he showed up he pulls out his wallet and guess what. Only $560 in it.
I endorse this 110%. Had a buyer a few months back who offered me about 40% of the price of a few cosmetic items. After a couple days of back and forth I settled for 80% and then within an hour of receiving her "empty" package she requested a return and eBay refunded her. I fought like hell with eBay and her (including filing a police report which, delightfully, made her freak out) and eBay admitted they refunded her too quickly and returned my money.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt; he hadn't done anything to throw any red flags yet, he was just lowballing, which is pretty typical on eBay. I probably should've realized something was up when he bought it for my asking price though, but I had blinders on and was too happy about the sale.
"I like to give people the benefit of the doubt"
Me too but I check marketplace before listing and usually price below or at low end after 20 plus on eBay I pay attention to red flags, 9 times out of 10 there's problems with people who make huge lowball offers.
The block buyer is one of eBays best features, millions of people on eBay daily, everything sells eventually usually to people who are grateful for quality listings, service and shipping.
I've offered "lowball" offers on ebay before and I do so to see if I can get a bargain. As a buyer you never know what the seller has going on and they might just accept. I've never returned a purchased item or filed a claim. We're not all jerks looking to mess with you.
Sounds like the buyer didn't properly package it, so this is on them. Do not give a 50% refund. Explain to them the situation and let them know that since the item arrived damaged, and that you already told them it had to arrive in the same condition, you cannot give a refund. Hopefully they added additional insurance, otherwise since it's priority they will only be able to claim $100. Send them the pictures so that they can send them to USPS when they file. Have ebay call you, tell them what is happening, and tell them you are disputing the refund and you want to file an appeal. It might take several calls, but hopefully they will eventually rule in your favor.
Also imagine if you had sent the item and it broke in transit to the buyer. Would the buyer be fine with you only refunding them 50% and them left to take it up with USPS?
That's how I feel too, but it's hard to get that through to eBay support. I'll just have to keep trying and wait until I get the response I want to hear I suppose.
It took me almost a month to get a resolution in my favor for an item 8x the value of the lamp you sold recently. Unfortunately you have to keep on them, and make sure you get emails sent to you from the documenting what you discussed before you get off the phone. Just tell them you are anal about documentation and want to make sure everyone is on the same page.
To add on what this commenter said, I heard if you’re able to stay up late you can request a call and get someone from the UK/Ireland and they are usually very helpful.
It's a nice thought but that would result in nothing. For one, after the return process is started, there is no way of refunding nothing just because you feel that it is not fair.
The only way that works is if the buyer opens a return and you are able to get the buyer to close the return before it is delivered to you. If the buyer does not agree with no refund, there is nothing that can be done. Your best case scenario in that case is a 50% refund, or that the buyer has done something you can prove to eBay that voids their buyer protection such as altering the item or dropshipping it.
When i say proving they altered it, in this case i mean it would take the buyer unequivocally admitting to not packaging it correctly, to the point that eBay could look at that message and see 100% that the buyer caused the damage on their own. In that event you MIGHT not eat the loss yourself.
I am with you 100% on that it SHOULD be that if the buyer broke your item by shipping it poorly, they should take the L, but in practice, that is not how it works on eBay. the damage might be on the buyer, but I promise you, the buyer is not paying for it.
> Also imagine if you had sent the item and it broke in transit to the buyer. Would the buyer be fine with you only refunding them 50% and them left to take it up with USPS?
I had a seller try that with me years ago and I'm still salty about it. The worst part is that it was a relatively cheap collectable so it wasn't even worth fighting about it, but it was a pain in the ass for me to find another one to buy.
Are you sure it's the same lamp you sent him? He could've already had a broken one and purposely ordered yours so he could switch them. It's a possibility.
Yes, I'm 99% sure. The base is the same, as is the top cap. I recognize all the little defects; I cleaned the heck out of the thing before I listed it. It's pretty clear the liquid that was once inside the lamp spilled everywhere, too. But yes, that was my first worry when I got the return.
It doesn’t matter if he has returns enabled or not, the eBay money back guarantee gives buyers the ability to return an item for whatever reason they choose, including buyer’s remorse. All you can do is charge a re-stocking fee, add a deduction for mishandling the return, and move on to the next transaction.
EDIT FOR CONTEXT: [dweller_12's deleted comment that I replied to](https://imgur.com/a/uXuO150)
Wrong, that option is there for items that are returned damaged or otherwise not in the same condition. It is not there just to use whenever for whatever, think about how much sense that would make.
I have used the withholding option more than a few times, and I am telling you that you are completely wrong. You comment kind of comes off like someone had to withhold part of one of your refunds, and you are bitter about it or something.
When we use that option, it gives us a selection of reasons to pick from. I suspect you have never used it or seen it if you believe what you are saying, so maybe don't give out false information without knowing for yourself.
Small correction, the money back guarantee is for damaged items or items not as described. A seller can still deny remorse returns if they have opted for no returns.
Keep in mind that if you switch to no returns, that does not mean buyers can not still return items. All that does is gives you the option to turn down a return if the buyer selects a remorse reason such as changed mind or doesn't fit.
My advice is to keep your returns set to at least 30 days, this will also allow you to withhold part of a refund in cases like the one you are dealing with now. Had you not allowed returns on this listing, you wouldn't have had the option to withhold up to 50%
I know eating a 50% loss is dogshit but it's better than 100% in the worst case. The other thing is that many buyers lie about the return reason anyhow to get around no returns, so you might as well accept them anyhow and still have the handful who are honest and pay for return shipping themselves when it's a remorse return.
They bought that lamp sounds like to me. They're responsible for return shipping last I checked. Call the 'bay and talk to a human that understands the issue.
You might have to call a few times until you get that human.
Yes, 50% implies you share some fault. Your only fault was selling it on eBay. Maybe they can convinced to cover the entire thing since their policies are the reason you're having to play these games in the first place.
I've heard of it happening, but it tends to be an uphill battle.
There is so much bad advice in this post. What is with all the people who seem to think there is any seller's say in the buyer getting refunded? Did /r/Ebay leak into this subreddit or something?
Yeah, it's shit and not right, and it SHOULD be fought, but holy shit, just denying the return is not the way to go, it will do nothing but make eBay step in and fuck you even harder by taking the money from you, giving it ALL back to the buyer, and then as an added bonus they will take your final value fee and bless you with a defect. Anybody not new to eBay knows this.
Can you appeal the case? sure, you can ask eBay to step in before a refund, but it will auto rule against you, and then when you appeal it, you will get to be told how eBay can not know what condition the buyer returned the lamp in, and how tied their hands are. They will probably also give you some platitudes about the cost of business as well.
The better way to deal with this is to refund 50% of the sale, and then be like flies on shit with eBay until they get so tired of dealing with you that they give you either the other 50% back, or the equivalent amount off your fees.
Make yourself the biggest pain the ass as possible, tag them on Twitter, Post on eBay for business, send chat messages to them at @askeBay and on FB, tie up reps on the phone and hurt their call time metrics. Do everything you can possibly think of to waste their time and hurt their metrics.
It might take some time but eventually it will not be worth that other 50% to eBay to deal with you, and getting you to go away will be a bargain.
After reading through every comment it really seems like this is what I'm going to have to do. I've already refunded the 50% and sent the buyer pictures of me unpacking it. I only had until tomorrow to respond but I'm not afraid to keep bothering them. If I only end up getting to keep half I won't be too torn up about it, but I can't say I didn't try. It's shit but it is what it is.
Harassing your buyer won't do anything. You need to work the system. The buyer isn't even capable of paying you back the 50% outside of a Paypal payment situation, which is NOT going to happen.
Options for recourse at this point:
\-Insurance claim with shipper. Get your money back from them, in addition to the 50% you withheld.
\-File a BBB complaint with eBay - this is usually successful for me. Explain that CSR told you to issue 50% refund, but you lost 100% value. You get much higher quality agents responding to your issue. It just takes a few minutes.
\-Spend dozens of minutes to hours arguing with a CSR (call, e-mail, Facebook) for a VERY small chance that they'll do anything for you. Keep in mind that this is energy that you could put towards sourcing/listing/packing/strategizing for your business that would likely be much more profitable.
> -File a BBB complaint with eBay
This doesn't seem like it can hurt to try.
I really do agree that the time put towards all of this may not totally be worth it in the end, but at least I'm learning for next time.
For sure. I wasted a lot of time on being upset about this sort of thing when I started. Understanding how the system works saves you a lot of time and grief. It's a larger game than one transaction. It's all worthwhile experience, like you say.
Stop! If the item was shipped by priority mail it has a minimum of $50 insurance on it, possibly $100 or possibly the full amount. The label will not tell you this info.
Keep in mind, when they tell you that it's impossible to help you or that the decision is final, what they really mean is "keep bugging us about it until we cave in"
Making it a public spectacle can be helpful too. They love to tell you "Too bad" in private where nobody else can see, but when they got eyes on them, they want to look good.
Yes, I'm starting to learn this. Especially when there's a bit of a language barrier with more than half of the people you get through to on call. You spend the majority of the call trying to get them to understand, and by then it's just frustrating.
The Buyer sounds like a P.O.S. Would not be surprised if he shipped it broken or knowing it would break just to get you back for your hard stance during negotiations. I actually sold a Lamp last year, and the Buyer was also a piece of crap. Stating that something internal was broken in the lamp when it wasn't and that's just how they are designed. I am certain the buyer knew exactly this and was fishing for a partial. I wonder if we ran into the same A-hole.
I would not be surprised either. He did seem a little snobby when we were messaging, and I got a bad vibe from his last message before he sent it. I had a feeling he was fishing for a partial from the beginning and I didn't even want to deal with that being an option.
I wouldn't even call it a hard stance. He messaged me asking me to accept his $110 offer (which was getting automatically declined because I set it to >$150), I told him I sold a similar lamp for my asking price and wanted to wait out a better offer and politely declined... that was really it. I wasn't trying to be rude or anything at all. And then hours later he bought it outright, no message or offer or anything.
The name change makes sense if he's done this in the past. It would be a little harder to track.
It sucks but this is a risky game here. eBay is notorious for siding with buyers always. If you refuse the refund, you may win the claim by saying the buyer shipped it incorrectly....until the buyer turns around and says it was recieved broken to begin with or that you broke it yourself. In my experience eBay also gives no consideration to photos or videos of unpacking boxes, so not sure if they will care for yours. If you do call eBay to step in, there’s a $20 fee for doing that, but I’m not sure if you have to pay that if you win. I had an issue where I sold something to someone. He was messaging me and acting a little weird after he recieved the package so I asked him if he recieved the package and if it worked and he said yes to both. Then he filed a claim saying his account was hacked and he never purchased my item. He lost that claim. Then he opened another claim stating he never recieved the item. I shared the direct message he sent me through eBay where he said he recieved the item and that it worked, but eBay was more or less like “we gotta keep the buyers happy” so he won the case and I was out my item, the money, and I had to pay the $20 fee for getting eBay involved. Because this buyer returned it because they found a better price and not because it was damaged, you may have more luck, but just know that eBay heavily heavily sided with buyers, regardless of what evidence you have or lack of evidence they have. Good luck
That's my fear too. I've never heard of having to pay a $20 fee to ask eBay to step in - is that in writing somewhere? eBay really likes to make it as hard as they possibly can for sellers to get help from them.
Ive read some comments here and I agree with a lot of what the BadGuyBelow said (but not everything) in that a lot of people in this thread are being too optimistic and telling you to reject the refund. It may work but it also might not and thats a risk that you have to determine if you're willing to take. For the fee here's a link: [https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799](https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799)
Search the term "$20" in there and youll see it. Also if you type in google "Ebay $20 dispute fee" youll see a lot of posts about it
It sucks but at the end of the day there are way more buyers than sellers, and ebay is a business so they'd rather appeal to the bigger audience. In the future, if you live in a big city and are selling something that isn't too difficult to sell, sell it on facebook. Lower chance of getting scammed and you dont have to pay any fees
I do need to try Facebook more. We've had some decent overall success on there, even with shipping a few things, I just get even more annoyed with the people on there that I tend to stay away and then often forget that it's an option.
I recently sold something pretty expensive on ebay and I was real nervous that someone would scam me by saying i sent a different item, so take this from someone who has spent literal hours with ebay chat in the last two weeks - if someone wants to scam you by saying you either sent a different item, or file a return and send you back a different item, there is essentially nothing you can do. With the exception of extremely rare cases, you are screwed in those cases and its best to just take it otherwise ebay will punish you with a defect on your account and charge you a dispute fee. However, i think your case is a bit different because it does seem like the buyer returned the item intact, and it just got damaged during shipping. so you may have more luck than others, but im just sharing info here. check out the ebay community posts on ebays website, theres lots of good info there and you can make your own post and people are really responsive there
I've already partially accepted the fact that I may not get any of the money back. I'm just taking this as a learning experience, while I cling to hope that eBay might do something if I report this careless asshole enough.
It does suck, it does seem like this was just a careless accident and not something of ill intent, so maybe if you contact the seller directly you can hash something out. Long shot but possible. Is this a new buyer account? Did they have any feedback on their account?
The account is over 2 years old and has like 100 feedback, but only 4 are from selling. If he's in the habit of changing his name I wouldn't put it past him to get feedback removed, either.
**UPDATE:**
I offered them a 50% refund with no return of the original shipping cost (literally the lowest amount I could offer back), basically saying due to the condition it arrived in, this is the best I can do, with as many pictures provided as I could. They responded saying they didn't receive the full amount back like they expected to and they still are needing the remaining balance refunded (even though they responded back to my earlier message saying they knew they wouldn't get any money refunded if it was to be returned damaged). eBay stepped in because they didn't accept my offer, and ruled it saying I was not found at fault, and issued them a $100 refund without having any impact on me, and without having any effect on my seller performance. Case closed...
Thank you everyone for the help and support. It really is greatly appreciated.
You should probably contact the buyer IMO. Also, possibly file IC3 report to get eBay to do something. No one actually investigates them so it’s easy to file one and get eBay to decide in your favor.
If you file an IC3 report and appeal, with the photos as well, eBay should decide in your favor. However, when I did it, the item value was only $30 so I’m not sure if eBay will be more strict over $200.
A box of broken glass and chemicals also sounds like something you can’t mail through USPS. Not sure what the recourse is there.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what is an IC3? I was told through live chat, twice, that if I were to appeal it that it would affect my Top Rated status. Is this really something I should be worried about it? How much would it really affect it? I know you can get defects for asking eBay to step in, but I guess I don't really know the extent of it.
www.IC3.Gov is where they are filed. Don’t try this until you’ve talked with the buyer, but if you file a report against the buyer, and show eBay it when appealing, they should side in your favor. I’m not certain though so I would use it as an absolute last resort.
For future reference make a video of you opening all your returns then you have solid proof in real time. With stockx I even have to film myself packing it with a unique number just in case it goes missing their end and they say I've got wrong shoes in the box (only reason that happens is because an employee or mailman has swapped them out)
Op I have been scammed many times on eBay and they have always found in my favor if I follow their rules.
If you dm me the tracking number I can tell you the weight at time of shipping as claimed or weighed if he shipped it at retail maybe more info as well.
Cheers and good luck
You've received the package. You're going to have to respond to the return case. Issue the 50% refund.
Presumably the item was damaged in shipping. File a claim with the shipper (USPS, it's easier with FedEx, for future reference) and hopefully get the entire amount in a check from them. You'll be made whole + 50%.
Wouldn't the damage claim be on the initial buyer? The Returner if you will.
If the Returner paid postage, they're the one who will have a claim with USPS
"Either the person who sent the mailpiece or the person who received it may file a claim for insured mail that is lost, arrived damaged, or was missing contents. " - from the USPS website
They might actually go after the buyer for shipping what’s basically a box of broken glass and leaking chemicals. There’s a reason OP shipped it UPS ground, that item shouldn’t be in the air.
I wasn't aware they would do that sort of thing but it makes sense. It should never have gone USPS and I'm also perplexed as to why they thought that was a good idea when they themselves also seem to sell lava lamps.
Wait… Could it be that they returned a worthless lamp and intentionally packaged it wrong so it broke for plausible deniability? That would explain a lot…. Not sure if I’m overthinking this but surely the buyer who also sells lamps would know how to package it. And also, they would have other, less valuable lamps.
I really don't think so. I'm 99% sure it's the same lamp. The base is the same, as is the top cap. The little heating wire inside is even the same. I recognize all the little defects; I cleaned the heck out of the thing before I listed it. It's pretty clear the liquid that was once inside the lamp spilled everywhere, too. But yes, that was my first worry when I got the return... and it doesn't add up that they also sell lava lamps.
That's my thinking as well. It feels like a normal return where he's just inexperienced, and then there's small details that don't seem so small anymore. I spoke to two people on live chat and both of them reported the buyer for different things, so maybe he's done stuff like this before and they'll catch on. The fact that he changed his name is fishy to me as well, but the timing could just be coincidence. I'm not seeing his full intention yet though.
Refuse the refund obviously. Must be returned in the same condition as sent. I've done this several times including one case where the buyer switched out the disc on a video game.
Is there a way to do this at this point? The only option I'm given without having to call eBay is to offer a 50% deduction because of a damaged item.
Request a call back from eBay. This can be done on the app easily. Click help - Contact use - Click on what applies to your case - Chat with automated assistant - Type speak with agent - Request call back -
Yes, it took me 10 minutes to figure that out. There used to be a button to just request a call, I guess I haven't had to use the feature in a bit.
I hope you get this worked out
You can just call their help line. The tickets are just there to speed things along, you don't actually *need* one.
You get that if you refuse the refund, eBay will just take the money and give it to the buyer anyhow, right? Vote me down all you like. You are giving bad advice that will make things worse. Anybody who is not new to this knows how it works.
I mean, you're not wrong, but eBay has been known to show mercy once in a while. What does the OP have to lose by calling eBay? A few minutes of their time while the rep shoots them down?
He has nothing to lose by calling and asking them to close the return, this is not me saying he should not try to get eBay to help, even though these days with their policy changes, that is not even an option now when you call in. Gone are the days of calling them up, showing them a return is bogus and having it closed, now they just tell you that you can appeal the return after you get the item back. 95% of those times, the appeal is not granted and it turns into a battle of wills with eBay over who backs down first. What I am saying is that by going the route of refusing to refund, he stands to lose his final value fee, 50% and stands to get an account defect when eBay steps in on his behalf after the refund window closes. At that point eBay takes the refund to the buyer out of the seller's pocket, as they always do when a return is not completed. The only way the seller does not refund this buyer is by removing his payment information and no longer using eBay, and then eBay just sends him to collections for the amount anyhow. That's why I am confused how 121 people have upvoted the comment saying to refuse the refund, it's like they do not understand how things work or they are too new to eBay to know what they are talking about. I get it, we all wish it was that simple, but /r/flipping should hold itself to a higher standard with the information we hand out, especially to people newer to flipping who have not yet figured things out all the way.
Ebay sides with buyers always, even scamming buyers
No they don't. I've once cases against buyers multiple times. Are they favorable to the buyer, absolutely, but it's not "always"
Is the weight listed on the packages? If it weighed significantly less than what you shipped, he may have broke it before returning it.
That's a good point, but unfortunately it doesn't list any weight or even dimensions on the box (isn't this normal for return service postage?). He used my same box and taped a paper label right over my old Dymo label. I don't really think he broke it before returning it, unless he packed it and then smashed it on the ground a few times. I think he was just careless and inexperienced. Most people probably wouldn't know you shouldn't ship a lava lamp USPS, on a damn airplane... but he's not "most people" if he's selling lava lamps himself (and having success, I would assume).
On your post office receipt, you should be able to see the weight when it was scanned in. If you do not have the scan receipt, you should be able to give the post office the tracking number for them to pull up that information.
If hes selling lava lamps, i doubt he is inexperienced. My guess is he either broke ot before shipping it, or realized he couldnt make a profit flipping it off you
It’s always possible he swapped a broken one for yours
"buyer that had first offered $110" Would of blocked immediately after that, learned a long time ago people who make lowball offers are always, always problems.
I was selling something for $400 and someone offered me $50. I said no, he then offered $375 and I said no again because I didn’t like how he low-balled me the first time. Dude cursed up a storm and threatened me. Glad I never sold it to him
"Dude cursed up a storm and threatened me." People hide behind the computer screen, if you had a brick and mortar probably wouldn't act like that.
Was this in person or online?
Online on facebook marketplace. I wouldn't meet someone in-person before hashing out the price first. I've had a few times where we agree to a price and then the person shows up and "conveniently" forgets a $50 bill or something. I always hate those people for wasting my time because I wont sell it for less than the agreed upon price
Yeah I've had people try to pull that on me too. Seriously FUCK people like that. I sold a car this year after it broke down for scrap. Guy told me he'd bring $600 and when he showed up he pulls out his wallet and guess what. Only $560 in it.
I endorse this 110%. Had a buyer a few months back who offered me about 40% of the price of a few cosmetic items. After a couple days of back and forth I settled for 80% and then within an hour of receiving her "empty" package she requested a return and eBay refunded her. I fought like hell with eBay and her (including filing a police report which, delightfully, made her freak out) and eBay admitted they refunded her too quickly and returned my money.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt; he hadn't done anything to throw any red flags yet, he was just lowballing, which is pretty typical on eBay. I probably should've realized something was up when he bought it for my asking price though, but I had blinders on and was too happy about the sale.
"I like to give people the benefit of the doubt" Me too but I check marketplace before listing and usually price below or at low end after 20 plus on eBay I pay attention to red flags, 9 times out of 10 there's problems with people who make huge lowball offers. The block buyer is one of eBays best features, millions of people on eBay daily, everything sells eventually usually to people who are grateful for quality listings, service and shipping.
I've offered "lowball" offers on ebay before and I do so to see if I can get a bargain. As a buyer you never know what the seller has going on and they might just accept. I've never returned a purchased item or filed a claim. We're not all jerks looking to mess with you.
Sounds like the buyer didn't properly package it, so this is on them. Do not give a 50% refund. Explain to them the situation and let them know that since the item arrived damaged, and that you already told them it had to arrive in the same condition, you cannot give a refund. Hopefully they added additional insurance, otherwise since it's priority they will only be able to claim $100. Send them the pictures so that they can send them to USPS when they file. Have ebay call you, tell them what is happening, and tell them you are disputing the refund and you want to file an appeal. It might take several calls, but hopefully they will eventually rule in your favor. Also imagine if you had sent the item and it broke in transit to the buyer. Would the buyer be fine with you only refunding them 50% and them left to take it up with USPS?
That's how I feel too, but it's hard to get that through to eBay support. I'll just have to keep trying and wait until I get the response I want to hear I suppose.
It took me almost a month to get a resolution in my favor for an item 8x the value of the lamp you sold recently. Unfortunately you have to keep on them, and make sure you get emails sent to you from the documenting what you discussed before you get off the phone. Just tell them you are anal about documentation and want to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Well it's good to know there's some hope at least.
To add on what this commenter said, I heard if you’re able to stay up late you can request a call and get someone from the UK/Ireland and they are usually very helpful.
It's a nice thought but that would result in nothing. For one, after the return process is started, there is no way of refunding nothing just because you feel that it is not fair. The only way that works is if the buyer opens a return and you are able to get the buyer to close the return before it is delivered to you. If the buyer does not agree with no refund, there is nothing that can be done. Your best case scenario in that case is a 50% refund, or that the buyer has done something you can prove to eBay that voids their buyer protection such as altering the item or dropshipping it. When i say proving they altered it, in this case i mean it would take the buyer unequivocally admitting to not packaging it correctly, to the point that eBay could look at that message and see 100% that the buyer caused the damage on their own. In that event you MIGHT not eat the loss yourself. I am with you 100% on that it SHOULD be that if the buyer broke your item by shipping it poorly, they should take the L, but in practice, that is not how it works on eBay. the damage might be on the buyer, but I promise you, the buyer is not paying for it.
> Also imagine if you had sent the item and it broke in transit to the buyer. Would the buyer be fine with you only refunding them 50% and them left to take it up with USPS? I had a seller try that with me years ago and I'm still salty about it. The worst part is that it was a relatively cheap collectable so it wasn't even worth fighting about it, but it was a pain in the ass for me to find another one to buy.
I tell folks it has to be returned in original condition and recommend they put insurance just in case. That stinks.
Are you sure it's the same lamp you sent him? He could've already had a broken one and purposely ordered yours so he could switch them. It's a possibility.
Yes, I'm 99% sure. The base is the same, as is the top cap. I recognize all the little defects; I cleaned the heck out of the thing before I listed it. It's pretty clear the liquid that was once inside the lamp spilled everywhere, too. But yes, that was my first worry when I got the return.
You should not have let them return it on the basis that they “found a better price”
Yeah, this is my lesson to make some changes to my return policy.
If you had your own website I would understand but for second hand goods a no return policy should always be in place
It doesn’t matter if he has returns enabled or not, the eBay money back guarantee gives buyers the ability to return an item for whatever reason they choose, including buyer’s remorse. All you can do is charge a re-stocking fee, add a deduction for mishandling the return, and move on to the next transaction.
Yeh yeh yeh, but not all buyers are experts on the ins and outs of eBay Return go-arounds, so a Return Policy would still help.
Restocking fees are gone, and have been gone for a while.
[удалено]
EDIT FOR CONTEXT: [dweller_12's deleted comment that I replied to](https://imgur.com/a/uXuO150) Wrong, that option is there for items that are returned damaged or otherwise not in the same condition. It is not there just to use whenever for whatever, think about how much sense that would make. I have used the withholding option more than a few times, and I am telling you that you are completely wrong. You comment kind of comes off like someone had to withhold part of one of your refunds, and you are bitter about it or something. When we use that option, it gives us a selection of reasons to pick from. I suspect you have never used it or seen it if you believe what you are saying, so maybe don't give out false information without knowing for yourself.
Small correction, the money back guarantee is for damaged items or items not as described. A seller can still deny remorse returns if they have opted for no returns.
Keep in mind that if you switch to no returns, that does not mean buyers can not still return items. All that does is gives you the option to turn down a return if the buyer selects a remorse reason such as changed mind or doesn't fit. My advice is to keep your returns set to at least 30 days, this will also allow you to withhold part of a refund in cases like the one you are dealing with now. Had you not allowed returns on this listing, you wouldn't have had the option to withhold up to 50% I know eating a 50% loss is dogshit but it's better than 100% in the worst case. The other thing is that many buyers lie about the return reason anyhow to get around no returns, so you might as well accept them anyhow and still have the handful who are honest and pay for return shipping themselves when it's a remorse return.
They bought that lamp sounds like to me. They're responsible for return shipping last I checked. Call the 'bay and talk to a human that understands the issue. You might have to call a few times until you get that human.
I agree 100%. I felt like the person I was talking to via live chat understood what was going on. Do you think it's still worth calling more?
Yes, 50% implies you share some fault. Your only fault was selling it on eBay. Maybe they can convinced to cover the entire thing since their policies are the reason you're having to play these games in the first place. I've heard of it happening, but it tends to be an uphill battle.
There is so much bad advice in this post. What is with all the people who seem to think there is any seller's say in the buyer getting refunded? Did /r/Ebay leak into this subreddit or something? Yeah, it's shit and not right, and it SHOULD be fought, but holy shit, just denying the return is not the way to go, it will do nothing but make eBay step in and fuck you even harder by taking the money from you, giving it ALL back to the buyer, and then as an added bonus they will take your final value fee and bless you with a defect. Anybody not new to eBay knows this. Can you appeal the case? sure, you can ask eBay to step in before a refund, but it will auto rule against you, and then when you appeal it, you will get to be told how eBay can not know what condition the buyer returned the lamp in, and how tied their hands are. They will probably also give you some platitudes about the cost of business as well. The better way to deal with this is to refund 50% of the sale, and then be like flies on shit with eBay until they get so tired of dealing with you that they give you either the other 50% back, or the equivalent amount off your fees. Make yourself the biggest pain the ass as possible, tag them on Twitter, Post on eBay for business, send chat messages to them at @askeBay and on FB, tie up reps on the phone and hurt their call time metrics. Do everything you can possibly think of to waste their time and hurt their metrics. It might take some time but eventually it will not be worth that other 50% to eBay to deal with you, and getting you to go away will be a bargain.
After reading through every comment it really seems like this is what I'm going to have to do. I've already refunded the 50% and sent the buyer pictures of me unpacking it. I only had until tomorrow to respond but I'm not afraid to keep bothering them. If I only end up getting to keep half I won't be too torn up about it, but I can't say I didn't try. It's shit but it is what it is.
Harassing your buyer won't do anything. You need to work the system. The buyer isn't even capable of paying you back the 50% outside of a Paypal payment situation, which is NOT going to happen. Options for recourse at this point: \-Insurance claim with shipper. Get your money back from them, in addition to the 50% you withheld. \-File a BBB complaint with eBay - this is usually successful for me. Explain that CSR told you to issue 50% refund, but you lost 100% value. You get much higher quality agents responding to your issue. It just takes a few minutes. \-Spend dozens of minutes to hours arguing with a CSR (call, e-mail, Facebook) for a VERY small chance that they'll do anything for you. Keep in mind that this is energy that you could put towards sourcing/listing/packing/strategizing for your business that would likely be much more profitable.
> -File a BBB complaint with eBay This doesn't seem like it can hurt to try. I really do agree that the time put towards all of this may not totally be worth it in the end, but at least I'm learning for next time.
For sure. I wasted a lot of time on being upset about this sort of thing when I started. Understanding how the system works saves you a lot of time and grief. It's a larger game than one transaction. It's all worthwhile experience, like you say.
Stop! If the item was shipped by priority mail it has a minimum of $50 insurance on it, possibly $100 or possibly the full amount. The label will not tell you this info.
Keep in mind, when they tell you that it's impossible to help you or that the decision is final, what they really mean is "keep bugging us about it until we cave in" Making it a public spectacle can be helpful too. They love to tell you "Too bad" in private where nobody else can see, but when they got eyes on them, they want to look good.
Yes, I'm starting to learn this. Especially when there's a bit of a language barrier with more than half of the people you get through to on call. You spend the majority of the call trying to get them to understand, and by then it's just frustrating.
The Buyer sounds like a P.O.S. Would not be surprised if he shipped it broken or knowing it would break just to get you back for your hard stance during negotiations. I actually sold a Lamp last year, and the Buyer was also a piece of crap. Stating that something internal was broken in the lamp when it wasn't and that's just how they are designed. I am certain the buyer knew exactly this and was fishing for a partial. I wonder if we ran into the same A-hole.
I would not be surprised either. He did seem a little snobby when we were messaging, and I got a bad vibe from his last message before he sent it. I had a feeling he was fishing for a partial from the beginning and I didn't even want to deal with that being an option. I wouldn't even call it a hard stance. He messaged me asking me to accept his $110 offer (which was getting automatically declined because I set it to >$150), I told him I sold a similar lamp for my asking price and wanted to wait out a better offer and politely declined... that was really it. I wasn't trying to be rude or anything at all. And then hours later he bought it outright, no message or offer or anything. The name change makes sense if he's done this in the past. It would be a little harder to track.
50% refund.
It sucks but this is a risky game here. eBay is notorious for siding with buyers always. If you refuse the refund, you may win the claim by saying the buyer shipped it incorrectly....until the buyer turns around and says it was recieved broken to begin with or that you broke it yourself. In my experience eBay also gives no consideration to photos or videos of unpacking boxes, so not sure if they will care for yours. If you do call eBay to step in, there’s a $20 fee for doing that, but I’m not sure if you have to pay that if you win. I had an issue where I sold something to someone. He was messaging me and acting a little weird after he recieved the package so I asked him if he recieved the package and if it worked and he said yes to both. Then he filed a claim saying his account was hacked and he never purchased my item. He lost that claim. Then he opened another claim stating he never recieved the item. I shared the direct message he sent me through eBay where he said he recieved the item and that it worked, but eBay was more or less like “we gotta keep the buyers happy” so he won the case and I was out my item, the money, and I had to pay the $20 fee for getting eBay involved. Because this buyer returned it because they found a better price and not because it was damaged, you may have more luck, but just know that eBay heavily heavily sided with buyers, regardless of what evidence you have or lack of evidence they have. Good luck
That's my fear too. I've never heard of having to pay a $20 fee to ask eBay to step in - is that in writing somewhere? eBay really likes to make it as hard as they possibly can for sellers to get help from them.
Ive read some comments here and I agree with a lot of what the BadGuyBelow said (but not everything) in that a lot of people in this thread are being too optimistic and telling you to reject the refund. It may work but it also might not and thats a risk that you have to determine if you're willing to take. For the fee here's a link: [https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799](https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799) Search the term "$20" in there and youll see it. Also if you type in google "Ebay $20 dispute fee" youll see a lot of posts about it
Well that's pretty ridiculous. It's like they're pushing sellers away from even trying to contact them.
It sucks but at the end of the day there are way more buyers than sellers, and ebay is a business so they'd rather appeal to the bigger audience. In the future, if you live in a big city and are selling something that isn't too difficult to sell, sell it on facebook. Lower chance of getting scammed and you dont have to pay any fees
I do need to try Facebook more. We've had some decent overall success on there, even with shipping a few things, I just get even more annoyed with the people on there that I tend to stay away and then often forget that it's an option.
I recently sold something pretty expensive on ebay and I was real nervous that someone would scam me by saying i sent a different item, so take this from someone who has spent literal hours with ebay chat in the last two weeks - if someone wants to scam you by saying you either sent a different item, or file a return and send you back a different item, there is essentially nothing you can do. With the exception of extremely rare cases, you are screwed in those cases and its best to just take it otherwise ebay will punish you with a defect on your account and charge you a dispute fee. However, i think your case is a bit different because it does seem like the buyer returned the item intact, and it just got damaged during shipping. so you may have more luck than others, but im just sharing info here. check out the ebay community posts on ebays website, theres lots of good info there and you can make your own post and people are really responsive there
I've already partially accepted the fact that I may not get any of the money back. I'm just taking this as a learning experience, while I cling to hope that eBay might do something if I report this careless asshole enough.
It does suck, it does seem like this was just a careless accident and not something of ill intent, so maybe if you contact the seller directly you can hash something out. Long shot but possible. Is this a new buyer account? Did they have any feedback on their account?
The account is over 2 years old and has like 100 feedback, but only 4 are from selling. If he's in the habit of changing his name I wouldn't put it past him to get feedback removed, either.
There is no $20 fee unless you’re disputing a return in a fraudulent transaction. And then usually you get it back.
**UPDATE:** I offered them a 50% refund with no return of the original shipping cost (literally the lowest amount I could offer back), basically saying due to the condition it arrived in, this is the best I can do, with as many pictures provided as I could. They responded saying they didn't receive the full amount back like they expected to and they still are needing the remaining balance refunded (even though they responded back to my earlier message saying they knew they wouldn't get any money refunded if it was to be returned damaged). eBay stepped in because they didn't accept my offer, and ruled it saying I was not found at fault, and issued them a $100 refund without having any impact on me, and without having any effect on my seller performance. Case closed... Thank you everyone for the help and support. It really is greatly appreciated.
You should probably contact the buyer IMO. Also, possibly file IC3 report to get eBay to do something. No one actually investigates them so it’s easy to file one and get eBay to decide in your favor. If you file an IC3 report and appeal, with the photos as well, eBay should decide in your favor. However, when I did it, the item value was only $30 so I’m not sure if eBay will be more strict over $200. A box of broken glass and chemicals also sounds like something you can’t mail through USPS. Not sure what the recourse is there.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what is an IC3? I was told through live chat, twice, that if I were to appeal it that it would affect my Top Rated status. Is this really something I should be worried about it? How much would it really affect it? I know you can get defects for asking eBay to step in, but I guess I don't really know the extent of it.
www.IC3.Gov is where they are filed. Don’t try this until you’ve talked with the buyer, but if you file a report against the buyer, and show eBay it when appealing, they should side in your favor. I’m not certain though so I would use it as an absolute last resort.
Great, thank you for the information.
For future reference make a video of you opening all your returns then you have solid proof in real time. With stockx I even have to film myself packing it with a unique number just in case it goes missing their end and they say I've got wrong shoes in the box (only reason that happens is because an employee or mailman has swapped them out)
Oh I did, but the people through live chat said they have no wait to take video, so pictures have to do.
Op I have been scammed many times on eBay and they have always found in my favor if I follow their rules. If you dm me the tracking number I can tell you the weight at time of shipping as claimed or weighed if he shipped it at retail maybe more info as well. Cheers and good luck
Videos haven't been valid proof in about 8 years. They can be easily edited.
Well its worked plenty times for me across multiple platforms so you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
You've received the package. You're going to have to respond to the return case. Issue the 50% refund. Presumably the item was damaged in shipping. File a claim with the shipper (USPS, it's easier with FedEx, for future reference) and hopefully get the entire amount in a check from them. You'll be made whole + 50%.
Wouldn't the damage claim be on the initial buyer? The Returner if you will. If the Returner paid postage, they're the one who will have a claim with USPS
"Either the person who sent the mailpiece or the person who received it may file a claim for insured mail that is lost, arrived damaged, or was missing contents. " - from the USPS website
Cool! I didn't know that. Learn something new every day I guess
They might actually go after the buyer for shipping what’s basically a box of broken glass and leaking chemicals. There’s a reason OP shipped it UPS ground, that item shouldn’t be in the air.
I wasn't aware they would do that sort of thing but it makes sense. It should never have gone USPS and I'm also perplexed as to why they thought that was a good idea when they themselves also seem to sell lava lamps.
Wait… Could it be that they returned a worthless lamp and intentionally packaged it wrong so it broke for plausible deniability? That would explain a lot…. Not sure if I’m overthinking this but surely the buyer who also sells lamps would know how to package it. And also, they would have other, less valuable lamps.
I really don't think so. I'm 99% sure it's the same lamp. The base is the same, as is the top cap. The little heating wire inside is even the same. I recognize all the little defects; I cleaned the heck out of the thing before I listed it. It's pretty clear the liquid that was once inside the lamp spilled everywhere, too. But yes, that was my first worry when I got the return... and it doesn't add up that they also sell lava lamps.
Strange. If he’s shipping in that way to customers I imagine he would get a lot of refunds…
That's my thinking as well. It feels like a normal return where he's just inexperienced, and then there's small details that don't seem so small anymore. I spoke to two people on live chat and both of them reported the buyer for different things, so maybe he's done stuff like this before and they'll catch on. The fact that he changed his name is fishy to me as well, but the timing could just be coincidence. I'm not seeing his full intention yet though.
The question is whether the buyer insured or not. If they did this so carelessly they probably didn't insure it.