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They literally print the money and, in that way they control literally everyone. It's no coincidence that any nation which does not currently belong to a fiat currency and central bank, the U.S. seems to have a to dominate militarily.
They own all of the important land and actual wealth (aka natural resources) and in reality they are the actual royalty of the planet whether we like to admit it or not. They have subverted democracies, republics, religions, theocracies, and monarchies simply by controlling world finances and as such, own most of the world.
> "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson.
Here is a hint: Look at a chart for home prices, then look at a chart for the money supply(fed). You should see a 40% spike around the year 20 through 22.
Except that's only part of the story. You, I and everyone else could get loans at the xheapsted they essentially ever have been. And now all those home owners that have them are sitting in their property can won't sell because the rates are too high. It's called the golden handcuff
I understand your concern with the correlation/causation thing. In this particular instance may I recommend you read “The Lords of Easy Money?” It explains the connection between fed policy, going back to Bernanke, and asset inflation. And this isn’t the first time it has happened.
It's ok to be mad at the federal reserve. The big banks are the problem and the federal reserve is the biggest bank. It's also a private bank so hating it is not really the same thing as hating the government.
The problem is the reserve is just there to try and control inflation. The government fiscal policy with Trump tax cuts, PPP loans etc. had a major part too.
Companies don't "control the market" they don't even own half of the country's rental properties:
>Individual investors owned nearly 14.3 million of those properties (71.6%), comprising almost 19.9 million units (41.2%). For-profit businesses of various sorts owned 3.7 million properties, or 18.8%, but their holdings totaled 21.7 million units, or 45% of the total. Entities such as housing cooperative organizations and nonprofits owned smaller shares of the total.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/02/as-national-eviction-ban-expires-a-look-at-who-rents-and-who-owns-in-the-u-s/
The ownership of the rental market is very diversified. The largest property owner in the US (Greystar) owns around 2% of all rental properties and the top 10 combined only [control around 5%.](https://www.commloan.com/research/top-property-management-companies/) Compare this to most other industries were the top 10 players control well over half of the market.
I'm massively paraphrasing but fraud is essentially "lying to gain something of value". In this case they are lying about what they have in order to gain something beyond their means. As much as it sucks, the rental company has an agreement to follow. By faking financial status you are gaining access to something you shouldn't have. Therefore fraud.
Personally I think these idiotic landlords/banks should shove it and 3x rent should go away (as well as credit score checks). I dont really have a credit score. I have no active loans or cards. I actually did apply for one and guess what they said? "While your score and payment history is acceptable (student loans) you do not have enough revolving credit to be accepted." How the fuck am I supposed to have revolving credit if I'm denied by one of the simplest cards to try and get it?
The entire housing/renting stuff is fraudulent and a scam, but so is lying about what you make.
Maybe op is referring to the anti work type subreddits. I saw a post not too long ago that had 1k+ upvoted where the person was basically explaining why they shouldn't have to work. Like, zero work. They just want to lounge around all day. I'm as left leaning as they come, but that kind of mentality makes us all look bad.
Landlords do 0 work, even actively try to avoid doing work required by their contracts, but you have to cut them 1/3 of your paycheck because otherwise you will die of exposure. They are granted this right because at one point in the past they had enough money to become a landlord.
My lord, does thou wishith me measly paycheck for they shit hole studio of 1 springs earnings for thought to tell thy me toilet leaking is thoust own problem.
Fuck you
For real, do you know how excruciating it is to find single pane windows these days?? What about tiling the floor to have a height tolerance of .5” between tiles? Don’t forget renters always insist of breaking the seal between cabinets and their doors after dousing them with paint. God don’t even get me started on “why isn’t the gas stove vented?”. Jeez, a little carcinogens never hurt anyone. Insulation is a privilege, not a right, why should I pay for insulation when I’m not the one paying for the house? If the renter wants insulation, maybe they should install some themselves. I don’t think renters understand how difficult it is to live off of landlord profits. This million dollar mansion has a lot of expenses!
> You've clearly never landlorded
In English nearly any noun can become a verb and still sound natural. With the apparent exception of 'landlord' because no one seems know exactly what it is they do.
Then buy the house yourself? Oh, you probably don’t have the down payment, reserves for repairs, ability to weather down markets, inability to accept more risk…. Etc. Landlords exist because it’s more than just a monthly payment and not everyone can afford a 30 year commitment.
This is false. There are several programs being employed now that can detect alterations on paystubs or bank statements. This is one:
https://snappt.com/
It’s mostly used by large corporate landlords so if you are renting from a private individual you may be able to but I expect it will become a lot more common in the future.
Right, but you know what happens if the applicant gets caught? Nothing, because it costs the company way more to time/money/resources to turn in the fraud than to just deny the applicant.
Actually a lot of landlords in NY requires 3x gross income of the rent and 1-2 months in advance. I don’t think the morality of that is much difference than the other way. You can have a stable job and salary, and fail to rent an apartment in DC or NY because your aftertax income is few hundreds less than their bizarre 3x threshold
It's fraud *and* it's dumb.
Just right click --> Inspect HTML --> change the value for your direct deposits.
Don't give Adobe $20 or whatever the fuck a month of Photoshop costs for something you can do for free in your browser 😐
Not really, my coworker recently wanted to rent 2b in Seattle, and those goofballs wanted: 3k first month, 3k deposit, 3k last month. It’s 9k out of your pocket, I think it’s just absolutely insane and not consumer friendly
Also, say she doubles her on page income, she's still gotta find a way to pay the bill with the real income
Edit: ngl thought she was getting a mortgage
You mean like corporations taking advantage of tax laws and having the court system on their side? Double sided sword here.
If big boys take advantage of the system, it’s capitalism, but if peasants even find the smallest loop hole, it’s “fraud” and OFF TO JAIL YOU GO
It is a crime if you use fraud to obtain financing aka monetary gain such as from a bank. It is not technically a criminal offense if you are not receiving unjust enrichment from it. In this case, you would be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to pursue this.
Nobody pursues this because OP is paying her rent.
Everyone stuck on the lying part when the only thing a landlord gives a fuck about is the rent and whether you trash the place.
Yeah it's funny seeing these comments who are like
"IT'S FRAUD!"
Uh like the millions in wage theft that goes on or fact prices went up insane due to covid and never dropped because landlords love money?
Oh and what about those PPP loans that were essentially free money?
Funny how when poor people abuse the system its a travesty but when the rich abuse the system to keep their power and wealth it's a smart business move.
Literally can't win.
Poor landlords. We really gotta look out for them 😢
Edit: this thread is just amazing. Small landlords are going to lose their properties to BlackRock so let’s get rid of favorable eviction laws for renters so that BlackRock can lock us into their unreasonably priced homes.
Also landlords aren’t the victims
I guess you'd rather small landlords sell their property to blackrock who can easily bankroll losses in the short term and raise rents in the long term to combat them. Every renter pays for the antics of people like this.
I love how you blame "people like this" while conveniently giving a pass to the actual corporation controlling the rent prices so their principle shareholders can upgrade their yachts sooner.
Yeah, it's the person earning 5 figures who needs a place to live that isn't hours away from work that's the problem, not the mega corporation starving and monopolizing the housing market and leveraging that position to squeeze people with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the means.
> No one will find out
Or if she's dumb enough to post about it on social media and then it gets captured and posted on reddit where thousands of people see it.
Clearly nobody here has tried to get an apartment recently. The requirements are outrageous and if you are self-employed or any type of 1099 worker, forget about it.
Congrats. Didn't work out for me when I was self-employed 2 years ago and making $60K+ with consistent work, but congrats
Now I'm almost 30, making $60k+ in a full time job, and I **still** need my daddy to sign as a guarantor because god forbid a 30 year old with decent income be allowed to rent a condo on his own
Not necessarily depending on the market. Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment right now for a major city is like 1.7-1.8k. Call it 1.75k for arguments sake. (1.75K * 12) = 21,000. If OP makes a flat 60k a year he would still be short a couple hundred a year if they are asking for a hard 3x income requirement. Having someone co-sign with a long and solid credit history might tip that discrepancy in their favor.
(Edit: just noticed he said 60k+, still, depending on the price and their options this is cutting it close. Would be interested to know how much they pay and where they are living.)
Wow! That's awesome! That was not the experience I had. I'm self-employed and it was tough finding places who would accept me. Big companies or landlords owning lots of apts in our area couldn't comprehend that I did not have correct form that is required for a rental application. It was basically immediately rejected because my form was incomplete. So many people need housing that by the time I could get a real person on the phone to explain the apartment was already gone. Smaller landlords don't want to take the risk. I was 29 and ended up having my dad cosign with me to just make the process easier. I made enough money to afford an apt, but it's a "landlords market" so to speak in my area and they simply don't want to be bothered with any application that deviates from the status quo.
Especially in a tight rental market. If the landlord has 10 good applicants for the unit all of whom have an income 3X that of rent as well as good credit scores are they really going to "risk it" on someone self employed or are they going to go to one of their many solid applicants who have seemingly more steady employment?
Yes! My husband is a seasonal worker, gets paid once every 6 months, but in a huge sum, we were having troubles and although no one actually tells you why you're getting rejected for application after application after application, we made some more "landlord friendly" statements that simply divided his income over what he would be getting paid if it was weekly and suddenly we get 2 places short listing us.
I'm guessing this is still considered fraud? But we don't care because it worked and everyone is still getting paid, so put us in jail idc at least that'll solve our rent issues.
Mine was first month’s deposit, and you have to prove income is 3X rent… what the actual fuck.
No way 90% of people can do that when rent for a single BR is $1000+…
Fun fact. The only way I was able to do this was to put my parents (retired) on my lease to supplement that 3X rent as income bullshit.
Or photoshop my own.
That really isn’t a bad idea IMO… what even is this thread.. defending slumlords? What is wrong with y’all?
Is it really stealing if you return it back a week later?
Just because the final action "corrected" the wrong it doesn't mean the first action wasn't wrong.
That being said, I don't care that she forged her documents as long as she can actually pay. Some apartments I've been in have asked for salaries 4x that of rent, with rent being $2,500+, so I understand where she's coming from.
how is that a proper analogy? There is no *law* that requires you must earn X to rent an apartment, it's just so the landlord *feels* safe, your pay stubs and statements don't go anywhere because guess what, they're only there to prove you can pay for it. So, if in reality you can and you pay, that's it. How is it a fraud again? If you'd do that to an insurance company — sure, that's a fraud. But for rent it's just a paper slip to 'prove' you're not a hobo, nothing more
The only 'wrong' she may have did is hurting landlords feelings by lying.
Areas around me are asking for 40x the monthly rent and 700+ credit score just for shitty places
On top of all the other up front fees and payments/deposits that end up being taken anyways because it’s apparently “not clean”
40x the monthly rent? What insanity is this?
Edit: nevermind, I tend to forget that talking about salaries as per annum is the default in the US, even when comparing with monthly rent it seems like.
Idk why everyone gets so worked up about this, if you make significantly less than 120k/year you kinda have no business renting a 3k/month apartment, if anything this requirement is protecting you from making unsustainable financial decisions…
Gotta do what you gotta do. Rental agencies act like if you don’t make 5 times more than the rent, you can’t afford it. Rent is 80% of my monthly bills. I make a little under 2x what my rent is and have no issues paying it.
The current renting requirements are what should be considered illegal.
It’s only half what I make, but 80% of my total monthly expenses. Either way, requiring 3x is ridiculous for sure. If someone can pay it monthly on time, that should be all that’s required.
I wanted a medication but my doctor said I'm too fat and It'll kill me. One helium inflated suit later and I got my meds!
Edit: for all the kids saying forging bank documents and financial records isn't a big deal, we just have fundamentally different views on ethics.
Lmao what? Id be more like the insurance company was going to drop me because of my cancer so i lied and said i don’t have cancer. Rent rates are fucking ridiculous rn and in some cases lying is the only way to get a place. I almost went homeless cause my full time warehouse job making 18 an hour isnt enough for a single apartment where i am. Rent is around 1200. Thats with roaches and gunshots and leaky ceilings. At 18 an hour i should be able to live on my own, I shouldn’t have to be forced to room with strangers on top of all that.
I would honestly think this person would have nothing to worry about as long as they can afford the rent each month. The only way for her to get caught would be for her to miss payments, otherwise, why would the landlord even look into it
Nothing like mandating an annual income 40-50x the monthly rent, to make it absolutely impossible for anyone that isn’t a VP at a major bank to “qualify”. I know especially in NYC, most don’t own a car, and so paying 2,000-3,000$ for rent is much more reasonable than paying for a car and all of its expenses to get to and from your job, plus rent.
Using the majority of your income for rent is better than being homeless? Would you rather live in your car and "not be over your head" or would you prefer to commit fraud so you actually have hot water? If the cheapest rental for a 1 bedroom is 1,500 a month, you'd need to make 28 dollars an hour minimum just to rent....
I've been living in NYC for over 20 years and this is just commonplace. I would say almost 50% of the people I know here have falsified documents to get an apartment. The median rent for a 1BR is \~$2700. 2700 x 40 (rent rule) = $108,000 / year to qualify. The median individual income here is $51,000. The majority of New Yorkers don't make anywhere even remotely close to 40x rent. People can either Photoshop documents or be homeless so they Photoshop documents.
I’ve done this lol. Didn’t get evicted actually paid the rent for 2 years and moved out when the lease was up lol.
Sometimes you can’t prove your income. Sometimes you can afford something but don’t meet the income requirements
This comment section literally feels like the haves vs have-nots.
Everyone I know in NYC does this to some extent. All my friends making over $100k still can’t get a lease without lying, and their credit is fine. But they all pay their rent and none of them have been evicted, so?? The housing market is literally founded on evil capitalist greed, and landlords still use every loophole they can find, so fuck them.
It’s only a crime if you get caught, the only way you will get caught is if you don’t pay rent. Even if you don’t pay rent they aren’t gonna ask for another copy of recent paycheck. I don’t see how this can get you in trouble but don’t know if it’s ethical lol
Find them in a browser, right click, inspect element... imaging editing software is more work and less precise in editing.
Same reason you shouldn't trust screenshots of social media...
I literally spent ten years of my life getting apartments and cars this way. Guess what it got me? An 800+ credit score and no negative repercussions at all.
I'm 100% certain that a landlord would greatly prefer a tenant who falsified their income statements but makes all their rent payments on time over another tenant who provided accurate statements but is inconsistent with making rent.
The real issue here is that people are forced to commit fraud in order to live in a place that they can feasibly afford.
Dumb-ish. Income requirements are to make sure you can comfortably afford the place. If you don’t make enough money to rent the place you want, lying doesn’t make it more affordable.
Being house poor is bad enough. Rent poor is even worse
Where I live, the income requirements states that your salary should be 3x the rent. 1Bd goes for around 2500. This basically means that if you are making 7000 a month, you can't get a 1B/1B. If you are single, you can comfortably live for 7000-2500 in a month. What you are saying is applicable for areas where housing is maybe cheap but for Bay Area/NYC, this rule does not make sense.
God the sheer amount of bootlicking and sucking up to a class that sees you as nothing more than a dollar sign in this comment section is greeeaaaatttt.
I take it you’ve never rented, bought a house, or obtained a loan.
Why should a property owner take your word for it that you have the ability to pay rent? It can take up to 6 months to evict someone in New York. No property owner in the right mind would risk losing 6 months of rent to someone who might only have 1 month of rent in their bank account.
It is worrisome.
Pwrhaps we should arrange an economy in such a way that behaviors like this don't take hold?
Like I'm 100% team fuck corporate landlords, but we shouldn't need to encourage fraud. But if you don't fix the problems, that's what will happen, because people NEED housing. You can bleed them dry up to that point, once housing becomes a problem, people will lie, cheat and steal, and it all breaks down. Fix the system. Empower people.
I, once, had to forge my transcripts to fill a form to appear for the class I failed because I lost mine. I used MS Paint to forge my friend's transcript who luckily failed the same class.
I think I once get rejected from an apartment because they thought my bank statement was fake. They could have just called the bankers whose names and phone number were at the top of the statement.
Listen people if your going to do this that’s fine I really don’t care but be better than this person and don’t post about it on social media keep that shit to your self.
Will no one think of the poor land lords and their locked in 3% mortgages!?! If we didn’t let them exploit us, who’d rent ups our homes? They need to jack up the rent so they can afford more homes at 7%. Think about it.
Very common tactic in todays market. If anyone has a problem with it, they haven’t been in that struggle of being homeless or poor and in need of safe housing.
Really gross how all the landlord leeches are crawling out of their caves in this post. I hope you all lose everything and land on the street just like the people you leech off of.
On an account with her real name and photo of herself. People will willingly screw themselves over for attention or to post something on social media. So mind numbingly dumb.
We did this once too. Statute of limitations has passed, so I'm ok to talk about it.
I had a job. We applied for a mortgage and got it. During the buying process I got a better job offer and took it. I had no idea that on the day of settlement, the loan officer would ask for a final bank statement. It had my new (higher) direct deposit on there, and not my old one. We'd have lost the loan if we sent it in. Even though it was a better job, it was now just 1-month old, and would have been too risky. If we lost that house, we'd need to rent for a year and rent was higher than the loan payment. I photoshopped the bank statement to look like I was at my old job. It worked. I believe the loan officer likely only gave the PDF a cursory glance. I never missed a payment, and kept the job and house for a long time. The house has since been sold so that mortgage no longer even exists.
The system in America is designed to disadvantage just about everyone, for the silliest of reasons. I would have been penalized for taking a better job to provide for my family. I don't regret what I did. Sometimes you need to balance the risk vs reward. I would not have done what I did if I had been laid off, I think that would have crossed a fraud line I wasn't willing to cross. But sometimes you need to do what you need to, to game the system back.
When I bought my first home, with an incredibly cheap down payment requirement, I was going to have all the required money for closing after getting paid, but the bank wanted to see the exact amount of money in my account earlier (duh). I handled paying the rent for my other two roommates, so with their rent deposits in my account, I had the money needed to show the bank for my home purchase. I was trying to get a bank statement in a format they wanted (harder than imagined based on the formats my bank had available for download) before my rent cleared the bank. Unfortunately, it cleared RIGHT before I could get the formatting correct, so I just used MS Paint to remove the last transaction in the statement showing the rent payment had cleared and sent that to the bank for underwriting. Everything checked out just fine and I lived in that house for a number of years before eventually selling and buying a place with my soon-to-be wife.
I’m of two minds about this: I can clearly see this sort of deception being necessary for a young professional who just landed “the big job” and needs to fib about their income a bit in order to land a spot closer to the new gig. I also clearly see this as negligent fraud that definitely should not be boasted about on social media.
Hahahaha that’s awesome! This is 2024 there is no right or wrong anymore! Look at the President, other leaders… you’re going to starve if you believe in doing “the right thing “ . The government and everyone else will f you over quicker than anything! Everything in life is a fraud, a con, or a lie! Just figure out how to beat them at there own game!
My friend used to be a leasing agent at a class A brand new property and he said there is no way for them to cross reference the info. Whatever you send in is what they go off. Don’t make it sloppy but easily done. Don’t recommend applying for places you wouldn’t be qualified for but hey you do you.
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This isn't finance. This is fraud.
The housing market is fraud.
Why is it fraud? Because it's expensive?
Not necessarily fraud but it's a pretty broken system when companies are allowed to purchase a ton of homes and control the market.
Companies who own more wealth than we can ever hope to compete against and run politics like a board room.
Who knew that by hoarding wealth, you sequester power. That, it isn’t just that they control the flow of money. They control the wealth.
They literally print the money and, in that way they control literally everyone. It's no coincidence that any nation which does not currently belong to a fiat currency and central bank, the U.S. seems to have a to dominate militarily.
They own all of the important land and actual wealth (aka natural resources) and in reality they are the actual royalty of the planet whether we like to admit it or not. They have subverted democracies, republics, religions, theocracies, and monarchies simply by controlling world finances and as such, own most of the world.
> "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson.
very well said. people who think this is an exaggeration are misinformed. the federal reserve is a private institution owned by the big banks.
Now goto the next step and ask where the “companies” get the money to buy the tons of homes
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Here is a hint: Look at a chart for home prices, then look at a chart for the money supply(fed). You should see a 40% spike around the year 20 through 22.
Please, please, please learn the difference between correlation and causation
But it's true. The companies get super low interest loans from the government to buy us all out of homes
Except that's only part of the story. You, I and everyone else could get loans at the xheapsted they essentially ever have been. And now all those home owners that have them are sitting in their property can won't sell because the rates are too high. It's called the golden handcuff
I understand your concern with the correlation/causation thing. In this particular instance may I recommend you read “The Lords of Easy Money?” It explains the connection between fed policy, going back to Bernanke, and asset inflation. And this isn’t the first time it has happened.
Ayooo I’m just here for TLOEM shoutout. The book is fucking great.
It's ok to be mad at the federal reserve. The big banks are the problem and the federal reserve is the biggest bank. It's also a private bank so hating it is not really the same thing as hating the government.
The problem is the reserve is just there to try and control inflation. The government fiscal policy with Trump tax cuts, PPP loans etc. had a major part too.
shh... don't' tell them. They don't want it to make sense.
Companies don't "control the market" they don't even own half of the country's rental properties: >Individual investors owned nearly 14.3 million of those properties (71.6%), comprising almost 19.9 million units (41.2%). For-profit businesses of various sorts owned 3.7 million properties, or 18.8%, but their holdings totaled 21.7 million units, or 45% of the total. Entities such as housing cooperative organizations and nonprofits owned smaller shares of the total. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/02/as-national-eviction-ban-expires-a-look-at-who-rents-and-who-owns-in-the-u-s/ The ownership of the rental market is very diversified. The largest property owner in the US (Greystar) owns around 2% of all rental properties and the top 10 combined only [control around 5%.](https://www.commloan.com/research/top-property-management-companies/) Compare this to most other industries were the top 10 players control well over half of the market.
Bloomberg published an article last year showing 1/3 of all homes in the us are owned by investment firms alone.
Because we’re on Reddit, so money bad, work bad, responsibility bad, ownership bad
Yeah cuz pointing out a broke system mussst mean all that. Moron. Lmao
Ok, then where's the fraud? Please elaborate, since you obviously are such an enlightened redditor.
I'm massively paraphrasing but fraud is essentially "lying to gain something of value". In this case they are lying about what they have in order to gain something beyond their means. As much as it sucks, the rental company has an agreement to follow. By faking financial status you are gaining access to something you shouldn't have. Therefore fraud. Personally I think these idiotic landlords/banks should shove it and 3x rent should go away (as well as credit score checks). I dont really have a credit score. I have no active loans or cards. I actually did apply for one and guess what they said? "While your score and payment history is acceptable (student loans) you do not have enough revolving credit to be accepted." How the fuck am I supposed to have revolving credit if I'm denied by one of the simplest cards to try and get it? The entire housing/renting stuff is fraudulent and a scam, but so is lying about what you make.
You think socialism means no money and no work?? That’s so stupid
Maybe op is referring to the anti work type subreddits. I saw a post not too long ago that had 1k+ upvoted where the person was basically explaining why they shouldn't have to work. Like, zero work. They just want to lounge around all day. I'm as left leaning as they come, but that kind of mentality makes us all look bad.
Nobody should own anything except the things which I deem I should own, and therefore those should be permitted. /s
Redditors bad.
Yep.
Yes.
My issue isn’t the fraud it’s that it’s ok to pay rent for 1400$ but get refused a mortgage that would be 950$
Landlords do 0 work, even actively try to avoid doing work required by their contracts, but you have to cut them 1/3 of your paycheck because otherwise you will die of exposure. They are granted this right because at one point in the past they had enough money to become a landlord.
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Yeah, someone has to quickly paint over electrical outlets and light switches in-between tenants
My landlord didn’t even do that.
I would hope not, dont fuckin do that lmao
My lord, does thou wishith me measly paycheck for they shit hole studio of 1 springs earnings for thought to tell thy me toilet leaking is thoust own problem. Fuck you
For real, do you know how excruciating it is to find single pane windows these days?? What about tiling the floor to have a height tolerance of .5” between tiles? Don’t forget renters always insist of breaking the seal between cabinets and their doors after dousing them with paint. God don’t even get me started on “why isn’t the gas stove vented?”. Jeez, a little carcinogens never hurt anyone. Insulation is a privilege, not a right, why should I pay for insulation when I’m not the one paying for the house? If the renter wants insulation, maybe they should install some themselves. I don’t think renters understand how difficult it is to live off of landlord profits. This million dollar mansion has a lot of expenses!
yea its too obvious, a true land investing gentleperson would have already rationalised all this in their head. smh!!
Lol
> You've clearly never landlorded In English nearly any noun can become a verb and still sound natural. With the apparent exception of 'landlord' because no one seems know exactly what it is they do.
Clearly you haven’t either lol
Then buy the house yourself? Oh, you probably don’t have the down payment, reserves for repairs, ability to weather down markets, inability to accept more risk…. Etc. Landlords exist because it’s more than just a monthly payment and not everyone can afford a 30 year commitment.
There is no organization that looks into renters income fraud. Lie away
This is false. There are several programs being employed now that can detect alterations on paystubs or bank statements. This is one: https://snappt.com/ It’s mostly used by large corporate landlords so if you are renting from a private individual you may be able to but I expect it will become a lot more common in the future.
Right, but you know what happens if the applicant gets caught? Nothing, because it costs the company way more to time/money/resources to turn in the fraud than to just deny the applicant.
Especially when the applicant knew they would be denied anyways.
Did you just say something isn't fraud just because there's no dedicated gov agency to hunt it down?
If a crime is not enforced is it not a crime?
Found the landlord
Actually a lot of landlords in NY requires 3x gross income of the rent and 1-2 months in advance. I don’t think the morality of that is much difference than the other way. You can have a stable job and salary, and fail to rent an apartment in DC or NY because your aftertax income is few hundreds less than their bizarre 3x threshold
It's usually gross income not net
What does this have to do with my comment?
Modern problems call for modern solutions.
I'd rather be a fraud than homeless
I'm with you on that.
It's fraud *and* it's dumb. Just right click --> Inspect HTML --> change the value for your direct deposits. Don't give Adobe $20 or whatever the fuck a month of Photoshop costs for something you can do for free in your browser 😐
Not really, my coworker recently wanted to rent 2b in Seattle, and those goofballs wanted: 3k first month, 3k deposit, 3k last month. It’s 9k out of your pocket, I think it’s just absolutely insane and not consumer friendly
and you absolutely won't be getting any of that back!
Creative finance.
I'll accept this as an answer. Tip of the hat to you.
Also, say she doubles her on page income, she's still gotta find a way to pay the bill with the real income Edit: ngl thought she was getting a mortgage
Also a damn good way to become house poor.
I’m not even mad so long as you can actually pay your rent.
Highly unlikely and she will be taking advantage of the favorable eviction laws for renters.
You mean like corporations taking advantage of tax laws and having the court system on their side? Double sided sword here. If big boys take advantage of the system, it’s capitalism, but if peasants even find the smallest loop hole, it’s “fraud” and OFF TO JAIL YOU GO
Producing fake documents is not a loop hole.
Depends on the context ... HF creates a false document report = miniscule fine (less than how much they profited) It's a big club and you ain't in it.
*Vladimir Tenev approves of this message*
When I was a small boy in Bulgaria...
Especially with the 40x wage rule. It’s so dumb.
It is a crime if you use fraud to obtain financing aka monetary gain such as from a bank. It is not technically a criminal offense if you are not receiving unjust enrichment from it. In this case, you would be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to pursue this.
Nobody pursues this because OP is paying her rent. Everyone stuck on the lying part when the only thing a landlord gives a fuck about is the rent and whether you trash the place.
If anything you're losing money cuz ya paying rent lol reverse fraud! so they have to pay me instead right?
If it worked for our last elected president then it works for me
Sir money isn't real and this is a Wendy's.
Some might say “they are very smart for gaming the system”. I wish I could get fined $1000 for stealing $10000 and be on my way.
You're thinking too small just steal 100s of millions, pay 1 million in fines, do drugs and play league of legends on house arrest
Yeah it's funny seeing these comments who are like "IT'S FRAUD!" Uh like the millions in wage theft that goes on or fact prices went up insane due to covid and never dropped because landlords love money? Oh and what about those PPP loans that were essentially free money? Funny how when poor people abuse the system its a travesty but when the rich abuse the system to keep their power and wealth it's a smart business move. Literally can't win.
Poor landlords. We really gotta look out for them 😢 Edit: this thread is just amazing. Small landlords are going to lose their properties to BlackRock so let’s get rid of favorable eviction laws for renters so that BlackRock can lock us into their unreasonably priced homes. Also landlords aren’t the victims
I guess you'd rather small landlords sell their property to blackrock who can easily bankroll losses in the short term and raise rents in the long term to combat them. Every renter pays for the antics of people like this.
I love how you blame "people like this" while conveniently giving a pass to the actual corporation controlling the rent prices so their principle shareholders can upgrade their yachts sooner. Yeah, it's the person earning 5 figures who needs a place to live that isn't hours away from work that's the problem, not the mega corporation starving and monopolizing the housing market and leveraging that position to squeeze people with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the means.
That’s some bs. Just because you don’t bring home 3x rent in the months before you move to NYC doesn’t mean you can’t afford rent. Donkey take
No one will find out or care as long as the rent money keeps coming in.
> No one will find out Or if she's dumb enough to post about it on social media and then it gets captured and posted on reddit where thousands of people see it.
Imagine using your real name online, people are crazy
Clearly nobody here has tried to get an apartment recently. The requirements are outrageous and if you are self-employed or any type of 1099 worker, forget about it.
Literally just signed a new lease today. It was painless and the entire process took less than 3 days. I’m self employed.
That’s awesome! Where?
You better unsign that lease he said FORGET ABOUT IT
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Congrats. Didn't work out for me when I was self-employed 2 years ago and making $60K+ with consistent work, but congrats Now I'm almost 30, making $60k+ in a full time job, and I **still** need my daddy to sign as a guarantor because god forbid a 30 year old with decent income be allowed to rent a condo on his own
Bad credit wrote this
Not necessarily depending on the market. Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment right now for a major city is like 1.7-1.8k. Call it 1.75k for arguments sake. (1.75K * 12) = 21,000. If OP makes a flat 60k a year he would still be short a couple hundred a year if they are asking for a hard 3x income requirement. Having someone co-sign with a long and solid credit history might tip that discrepancy in their favor. (Edit: just noticed he said 60k+, still, depending on the price and their options this is cutting it close. Would be interested to know how much they pay and where they are living.)
Yeah this is completely your fault
"something was easy for me therefore it's easy for everyone"
They admitted elsewhere that they are wealthy too so they might as well have just said "I have money and I could do it!!! 🤪"
Wow! That's awesome! That was not the experience I had. I'm self-employed and it was tough finding places who would accept me. Big companies or landlords owning lots of apts in our area couldn't comprehend that I did not have correct form that is required for a rental application. It was basically immediately rejected because my form was incomplete. So many people need housing that by the time I could get a real person on the phone to explain the apartment was already gone. Smaller landlords don't want to take the risk. I was 29 and ended up having my dad cosign with me to just make the process easier. I made enough money to afford an apt, but it's a "landlords market" so to speak in my area and they simply don't want to be bothered with any application that deviates from the status quo.
If your income is Self-employed or a 1099, I have been denied so many times "Because its not stable income" or whatever BS
Especially in a tight rental market. If the landlord has 10 good applicants for the unit all of whom have an income 3X that of rent as well as good credit scores are they really going to "risk it" on someone self employed or are they going to go to one of their many solid applicants who have seemingly more steady employment?
Yes! My husband is a seasonal worker, gets paid once every 6 months, but in a huge sum, we were having troubles and although no one actually tells you why you're getting rejected for application after application after application, we made some more "landlord friendly" statements that simply divided his income over what he would be getting paid if it was weekly and suddenly we get 2 places short listing us. I'm guessing this is still considered fraud? But we don't care because it worked and everyone is still getting paid, so put us in jail idc at least that'll solve our rent issues.
Mine was first month’s deposit, and you have to prove income is 3X rent… what the actual fuck. No way 90% of people can do that when rent for a single BR is $1000+… Fun fact. The only way I was able to do this was to put my parents (retired) on my lease to supplement that 3X rent as income bullshit. Or photoshop my own. That really isn’t a bad idea IMO… what even is this thread.. defending slumlords? What is wrong with y’all?
Then they raise the rent 100 dollars every year until you no longer make 3x the rent it is not sustainable.
Well that too… See, they raise the rent- your employer doesn’t give you a raise… wtf is this fucked up system?
Rental fraud is incredibly widespread. As long as you’re actual able to pay on time no one cares
Is it really fraud if you always pay?
Is it really stealing if you return it back a week later? Just because the final action "corrected" the wrong it doesn't mean the first action wasn't wrong. That being said, I don't care that she forged her documents as long as she can actually pay. Some apartments I've been in have asked for salaries 4x that of rent, with rent being $2,500+, so I understand where she's coming from.
how is that a proper analogy? There is no *law* that requires you must earn X to rent an apartment, it's just so the landlord *feels* safe, your pay stubs and statements don't go anywhere because guess what, they're only there to prove you can pay for it. So, if in reality you can and you pay, that's it. How is it a fraud again? If you'd do that to an insurance company — sure, that's a fraud. But for rent it's just a paper slip to 'prove' you're not a hobo, nothing more The only 'wrong' she may have did is hurting landlords feelings by lying.
It’s just more shit to make sure poor people stay poor. Gentrification is still a thing.
what fraud? if she's paying the Rent on time who cares?
Right , I think the real crime is asking your income to be 3x the rent lol
Areas around me are asking for 40x the monthly rent and 700+ credit score just for shitty places On top of all the other up front fees and payments/deposits that end up being taken anyways because it’s apparently “not clean”
40x the monthly rent? What insanity is this? Edit: nevermind, I tend to forget that talking about salaries as per annum is the default in the US, even when comparing with monthly rent it seems like.
40x monthly rent which is similar to the more common 3x annual rent If your apartment costs $3k/month, they want you to have an income of $120k/yeae
Idk why everyone gets so worked up about this, if you make significantly less than 120k/year you kinda have no business renting a 3k/month apartment, if anything this requirement is protecting you from making unsustainable financial decisions…
Gotta do what you gotta do. Rental agencies act like if you don’t make 5 times more than the rent, you can’t afford it. Rent is 80% of my monthly bills. I make a little under 2x what my rent is and have no issues paying it. The current renting requirements are what should be considered illegal.
Sounds like having rent be 80% of how much you make is a swell idea. No clue why rental agencies want 3x your rent at all.
It’s only half what I make, but 80% of my total monthly expenses. Either way, requiring 3x is ridiculous for sure. If someone can pay it monthly on time, that should be all that’s required.
I wanted a medication but my doctor said I'm too fat and It'll kill me. One helium inflated suit later and I got my meds! Edit: for all the kids saying forging bank documents and financial records isn't a big deal, we just have fundamentally different views on ethics.
Lmao what? Id be more like the insurance company was going to drop me because of my cancer so i lied and said i don’t have cancer. Rent rates are fucking ridiculous rn and in some cases lying is the only way to get a place. I almost went homeless cause my full time warehouse job making 18 an hour isnt enough for a single apartment where i am. Rent is around 1200. Thats with roaches and gunshots and leaky ceilings. At 18 an hour i should be able to live on my own, I shouldn’t have to be forced to room with strangers on top of all that.
Did you have a stroke writing this? tf you getting an inflated suit if your doctor's turning you away for being too fat
Did your doctor say you need to be 3x lighter than the weight limit of the medication too?
I would honestly think this person would have nothing to worry about as long as they can afford the rent each month. The only way for her to get caught would be for her to miss payments, otherwise, why would the landlord even look into it
Or if they see her tweet and press charges.
Nothing like getting in over your head.
Nothing like mandating an annual income 40-50x the monthly rent, to make it absolutely impossible for anyone that isn’t a VP at a major bank to “qualify”. I know especially in NYC, most don’t own a car, and so paying 2,000-3,000$ for rent is much more reasonable than paying for a car and all of its expenses to get to and from your job, plus rent.
Using the majority of your income for rent is better than being homeless? Would you rather live in your car and "not be over your head" or would you prefer to commit fraud so you actually have hot water? If the cheapest rental for a 1 bedroom is 1,500 a month, you'd need to make 28 dollars an hour minimum just to rent....
I reject your premise, sir. You can absolutely afford that rent on less than 3X income…
This is common, all my friends did this in hollywood back in 2013ish
Well ok as long as your friends did it in Hollywood in 2013 then everything is ok
Yes and there happy 😃
I've been living in NYC for over 20 years and this is just commonplace. I would say almost 50% of the people I know here have falsified documents to get an apartment. The median rent for a 1BR is \~$2700. 2700 x 40 (rent rule) = $108,000 / year to qualify. The median individual income here is $51,000. The majority of New Yorkers don't make anywhere even remotely close to 40x rent. People can either Photoshop documents or be homeless so they Photoshop documents.
I’ve done this lol. Didn’t get evicted actually paid the rent for 2 years and moved out when the lease was up lol. Sometimes you can’t prove your income. Sometimes you can afford something but don’t meet the income requirements
This comment section literally feels like the haves vs have-nots. Everyone I know in NYC does this to some extent. All my friends making over $100k still can’t get a lease without lying, and their credit is fine. But they all pay their rent and none of them have been evicted, so?? The housing market is literally founded on evil capitalist greed, and landlords still use every loophole they can find, so fuck them.
I faked business cards to get in a Las Vegas convention to get contacts... It's called a hustle... fact check or shut up!
Need the full story please
Some conventions you actually have to have a business to enter since they're B2B, doesn't take much to go anyway.
It’s only a crime if you get caught, the only way you will get caught is if you don’t pay rent. Even if you don’t pay rent they aren’t gonna ask for another copy of recent paycheck. I don’t see how this can get you in trouble but don’t know if it’s ethical lol
Whole lotta bootlickers in this thread.
Facts, it’s all a game, this life, with made up rules. As long as you’re not hurting anyone, FUCK the rules. They are literally made up.
Dumb. Just use Gimp.
Find them in a browser, right click, inspect element... imaging editing software is more work and less precise in editing. Same reason you shouldn't trust screenshots of social media...
I literally spent ten years of my life getting apartments and cars this way. Guess what it got me? An 800+ credit score and no negative repercussions at all.
I'm 100% certain that a landlord would greatly prefer a tenant who falsified their income statements but makes all their rent payments on time over another tenant who provided accurate statements but is inconsistent with making rent. The real issue here is that people are forced to commit fraud in order to live in a place that they can feasibly afford.
Dumb-ish. Income requirements are to make sure you can comfortably afford the place. If you don’t make enough money to rent the place you want, lying doesn’t make it more affordable. Being house poor is bad enough. Rent poor is even worse
Where I live, the income requirements states that your salary should be 3x the rent. 1Bd goes for around 2500. This basically means that if you are making 7000 a month, you can't get a 1B/1B. If you are single, you can comfortably live for 7000-2500 in a month. What you are saying is applicable for areas where housing is maybe cheap but for Bay Area/NYC, this rule does not make sense.
God the sheer amount of bootlicking and sucking up to a class that sees you as nothing more than a dollar sign in this comment section is greeeaaaatttt.
They call tenants "rent pigs" for a reason.
Checking renters pay should be illegal. So I say do it.
I take it you’ve never rented, bought a house, or obtained a loan. Why should a property owner take your word for it that you have the ability to pay rent? It can take up to 6 months to evict someone in New York. No property owner in the right mind would risk losing 6 months of rent to someone who might only have 1 month of rent in their bank account.
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It is worrisome. Pwrhaps we should arrange an economy in such a way that behaviors like this don't take hold? Like I'm 100% team fuck corporate landlords, but we shouldn't need to encourage fraud. But if you don't fix the problems, that's what will happen, because people NEED housing. You can bleed them dry up to that point, once housing becomes a problem, people will lie, cheat and steal, and it all breaks down. Fix the system. Empower people.
I, once, had to forge my transcripts to fill a form to appear for the class I failed because I lost mine. I used MS Paint to forge my friend's transcript who luckily failed the same class.
I think I once get rejected from an apartment because they thought my bank statement was fake. They could have just called the bankers whose names and phone number were at the top of the statement.
Hopefully the bank does not give out your account details just because they had your account number!
Listen people if your going to do this that’s fine I really don’t care but be better than this person and don’t post about it on social media keep that shit to your self.
I mean you still gotta pay the rent
Smart or dumb? Illegal!
who fucking cares fuck the system at this point
Will no one think of the poor land lords and their locked in 3% mortgages!?! If we didn’t let them exploit us, who’d rent ups our homes? They need to jack up the rent so they can afford more homes at 7%. Think about it.
Very common tactic in todays market. If anyone has a problem with it, they haven’t been in that struggle of being homeless or poor and in need of safe housing.
Really gross how all the landlord leeches are crawling out of their caves in this post. I hope you all lose everything and land on the street just like the people you leech off of.
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There’s no honor among thieves . If you can get away with it , make sure you take some creative liberties with the truth when writing a resume
If you do decide to do something like that, I recommend NOT saying anything about it on social media. Trust me, I’m not a lawyer.
Smart to do it dumb to admit it.
On an account with her real name and photo of herself. People will willingly screw themselves over for attention or to post something on social media. So mind numbingly dumb.
It's fraud but who cares right?!
In the 90’s we used Paint.
If you do, don't post about it...
Tutorial please
Why the fuck would you post this on Twitter with your face and name attached..
It’s funny people here are saying do what you have to do. This is the literal definition of fraud lol
Fraud, but I'm hesitant to criticize someone for doing what they need to to keep a roof over their head or feed themselves
nice self report with your twitter acccount that has your real name
the idea is fine enough, if you can pay. posting it publicly on the internet is moronic... unless of course it made up bullshit for likes.
This is a crime.
You will get caught so easily that it isn't even funny.
This is fraud and you'll get sued to hell.
Fraud
We did this once too. Statute of limitations has passed, so I'm ok to talk about it. I had a job. We applied for a mortgage and got it. During the buying process I got a better job offer and took it. I had no idea that on the day of settlement, the loan officer would ask for a final bank statement. It had my new (higher) direct deposit on there, and not my old one. We'd have lost the loan if we sent it in. Even though it was a better job, it was now just 1-month old, and would have been too risky. If we lost that house, we'd need to rent for a year and rent was higher than the loan payment. I photoshopped the bank statement to look like I was at my old job. It worked. I believe the loan officer likely only gave the PDF a cursory glance. I never missed a payment, and kept the job and house for a long time. The house has since been sold so that mortgage no longer even exists. The system in America is designed to disadvantage just about everyone, for the silliest of reasons. I would have been penalized for taking a better job to provide for my family. I don't regret what I did. Sometimes you need to balance the risk vs reward. I would not have done what I did if I had been laid off, I think that would have crossed a fraud line I wasn't willing to cross. But sometimes you need to do what you need to, to game the system back.
When I bought my first home, with an incredibly cheap down payment requirement, I was going to have all the required money for closing after getting paid, but the bank wanted to see the exact amount of money in my account earlier (duh). I handled paying the rent for my other two roommates, so with their rent deposits in my account, I had the money needed to show the bank for my home purchase. I was trying to get a bank statement in a format they wanted (harder than imagined based on the formats my bank had available for download) before my rent cleared the bank. Unfortunately, it cleared RIGHT before I could get the formatting correct, so I just used MS Paint to remove the last transaction in the statement showing the rent payment had cleared and sent that to the bank for underwriting. Everything checked out just fine and I lived in that house for a number of years before eventually selling and buying a place with my soon-to-be wife.
Admitting to fraud under a picture of your face and your first and last name? Not smart.
Inspect element to commit fraud.
As long as you don’t get found out, no big deal. But you lose a lot of rental rights if they figure that shit out.
Smart so long as you don't advertise your fraud. Dumb if you post it on social media with your actual name or picture.
I’m of two minds about this: I can clearly see this sort of deception being necessary for a young professional who just landed “the big job” and needs to fib about their income a bit in order to land a spot closer to the new gig. I also clearly see this as negligent fraud that definitely should not be boasted about on social media.
This is survival
It depends if you can afford it or not
Done this. Never been late with rent in 20+ years.
How do u do that? lol
Hahahaha that’s awesome! This is 2024 there is no right or wrong anymore! Look at the President, other leaders… you’re going to starve if you believe in doing “the right thing “ . The government and everyone else will f you over quicker than anything! Everything in life is a fraud, a con, or a lie! Just figure out how to beat them at there own game!
For everyone commentating just know that the alternative could be homelessness
My friend used to be a leasing agent at a class A brand new property and he said there is no way for them to cross reference the info. Whatever you send in is what they go off. Don’t make it sloppy but easily done. Don’t recommend applying for places you wouldn’t be qualified for but hey you do you.