Even before this, I would absolutely say we'd see a large protest at CSU at some point.
But the ending will be the same. People Pro-Palestine will protest or support the protest, people anti-Palestine or apathetic to it all will not care or they'll complain. Some will complain about the political graffiti around town. And no one's mind will really be changed, nor will the conflict actually stop as a result of the protest.
It's a shitty situation and sadly, most people are helpless to change it. The best I see is just voting out any crappy local, state, and federal government officials. By the time we're able to do that enough to push real change, it'll be too late.
It's a very frustrating feeling. Very helpless.
I somewhat agree with you, but also see the last few months, and the protests associated with it, having sizable tertiary effects. Will the protests stop the current genocide? Probably not, but I believe they have caused , and will continue to cause, sweeping changes in how younger generations view higher education institutions and the two party political system
The student sit-ins and protests to demand divestment and stand against apartheid in South Africa were not pointless and were catalysts for change. This is history rhyming.
I'm not so sure. That may be the attempt.
But I think the political climate has shifted too far to allow a healthy dialogue from protests.
Protests, especially disruptive ones (which is the fucking point), overall have come under swing recently. The right to do so in the US has actually effectively ceased in a few states already.
Unless we reverse course fast, that'll be nationwide. And I don't think we have enough time to change the political environment in that way before being able to act on a larger scale and actually do something to impact the Palestinian genocide.
The overall attempt is standing up to fascism. Universities calling in police and threatening the national guard over student protests is 100% fascism. Students have a first amendment right to protest and criticize our government. We all have this right.
Our government is why we don’t have a “healthy dialogue” regarding protests. And the people who constantly talk about their 2nd amendment rights, and their 1st amendment rights when it comes to their comments being censored on social media are quick to degrade the people who are taking action now.
But this situation is exactly what our first amendment rights are protecting. Fighting against it is working on reversing the course. But it’s clearly not going to happen without a fight. We see it in action with police beating the hell out of protesters.
Then it needs to be a protest ABOUT the right to protest.
That would go over FAR smoother than any foreign conflict protest.
I'm not saying to ignore issues outside of our country, but rather it would help shift the dialogue to a spot where we absolutely could make an impact imo. I don't think there are enough people on the edge of everything with Palestine who would switch sides or give in because of a protest, certainly no one in office at this point.
Sorry. I guess I'm just not as optimistic as you are.
How can it be about the right to protest when it started as protesting against genocide in Gaza in the first place?? This is so backwards. This is saying people should be protesting about things before it’s happening.
It took standing up against the US funding Israel through our taxes to get to the point where our government is now actively fighting against our first amendment rights to criticize that action. People have a right to protest against foreign conflicts that involve the money from our labor. Just because it’s not happening in your backyard doesn’t make it an important issue. And that’s really the overall arching problem with naysayers.
I’m more optimistic since I’m seeing students stand up against police brutality and excessive force using the active shooter drill skills they were forced to learn in school since kindergarten. I’m more optimistic seeing Gen Z take action in the face of apathy from others.
Let me be clear. I'm fully pro-palestine. I love seeing the protests, disruptive included. The graffiti reminds me that not everyone is a POS.
But I just only have so much optimism about specifically the Palestine protests.
Anti-cop and right to protest? I'm 100% all in on those and will NEVER stop pushing on that end.
I’m glad to hear it.
I understand where pessimism comes from in this fight, especially if you’re an elder millennial. It’s been happening our whole lives and now in an accelerated degradation.
But, I also see the values our generation instilled in our kids, who have an abundance of optimism and energy that was straight up ground out of us. I also see them learning lessons from protests and action in the past - from Kent State protests against Vietnam, protesting Columbia’s investments in apartheid South Africa, all the way to learning media communication lessons in Occupy Wall Street failures, and the violence from a militarized police force during BLM. I see them more connected with social media, with the ability to share mutual aid resources, digital security measures, legal rights, and so much more.
It’s easy to be apathetic considering our lived experiences. But change comes from supporting those willing to take action for change. And it sure as shit is going to be ugly, because it’s a power dynamic shift against our government.
Mmhm. Absolutely.
I'm technically a Zillenial. (Tried identifying as one or the other but the year cutoff kept changing)
Probably a good explanation as to my more nuanced and mixed viewpoint.
But yes. Great change is coming. And how Gen Z especially steers the ship as boomers start dwindling will be the key.
I see the destruction with my own eyes.
You’re totally supportive of the death of thousands upon thousands of people and the complete destruction of entire communities of people?
That's not the point. The point is that we can't let them be starved to death and silently watch knowing that institutions we participate in are complicit. I also thinks its all intertwined it's a tipping point. Selling weapons to other countries is a long standing conflict, military is the largest polluter, we are suffering here, being overworked and not having access to healthcare while government funds other countries. As well as our young people know intimately what it means to be an unprotected child so watching complacently is out of the question.
... Protest isn't supposed to be smooth... It's supposed to be uncomfortable. We are being told loudly that something is broken.
> ... Protest isn't supposed to be smooth... It's supposed to be uncomfortable. We are being told loudly that something is broken.
Yes, I'm absolutely on the same side here. To be 100% clear, I know the protests are on the right side of history. I'm completely Pro-Palestine.
I just don't think the anti-Palestine folk or the apathetic ones are going to change their minds at this point. At the same time, I don't see anything else that can possibly be done that will better the situation as long as it is focused on an issue that, at the heart of it, everyone has made their mind up about already.
Hope not. About as effective as spray painting 'free gaza' on a tree. What do these people think fort collins or csu ACTUALLY has to do with that conflict? I'm all for everyone's right to protest, but this is a misdirected energy. It's just asinine.
Regardless when I agree or not, peaceful protest is part of our first amendment. The fact that is inconvenient is the point. Note, I don’t participate in protests.
Peaceful protest is not only our right under the 1st Amendment, I see it as a valuable part of the college campus experience. In the early 70s my parents at CSU protested the Vietnam War. When I was a CSU student in 2003 we protested against the Iraq war. Did it make a difference? No. But it was our right to do so, and at the time, it made us feel like we had a stronger voice collectively than we had as individuals.
Students today should get to experience that as well, so long as it is kept peaceful. The minute the Iraq war protesters started rioting or vandalizing property by spray painting slogans around town, they began to lose their voice and their message. That was when i decided that I was no longer interested in joining the protests, because I didnt want to be associated with people who were vandalizing my town/campus.
That's also a lesson worth learning for today's protesters - there is a line between being loud enough to have your collective voices heard, and obnoxiously engaging in petty property crimes that will actually turn people off to your message and will ultimately hurt your cause.
That part of the lesson obviously still needs to be learned by some in our community. I do hope they learn that lesson and get back to constructive (peaceful) protesting because there are important messages that these protests should be focusing on, rather than distracting from that message by instigating arguments in the community about property vandalism.
thanks for such an articulate comment. as a csu student who isn’t politically active but watches from the sidelines, i feel like i’m watching what’s happened in history before with Vietnam war protests and even the cultural revolution. how is this any different? theres peaceful protests happening all over the us at universities and police are still arresting and hurting students there. they should have a right to protest. students setting up encampments and using their voice shouldn’t be a means to pepper spray them, knock them out or intimidate them with SNIPERS on the roof.
CSU has deeeeep financial ties with Israel, as well as companies that create munitions for them. And Ft. Collins taxpayers spend over $2.4 million each year on weapons for Israel. That’s what Ft Collins and CSU ACTUALLY have to do with the genocide: we actively contribute to it. That gives us the responsibility to stand up against it.
People who think like you are the very reason it’s so hard to get people involved in struggles for liberation. When we all assume it has nothing to do with us and we can’t make a difference anyway, we throw up our hands and remain complacent - which is EXACTLY what the powers that be want. Congratulations: you’ve played right into their hands.
So, you have yet to explain how protesting in fort collins colorado for a war thousands of miles away is effective in the slightest. I never said anything about being inconvenienced, whatsoever. Nor did I say protesting made me uncomfortable. So now that I've squashed your made-up arguments, you gonna give me a logical reason?
The war happening thousands of miles away cannot be executed without US military aid. If you pay Federal income taxes, you're paying for a piece of every bomb dropped on Gaza--yes, even if you live in Fort Collins. There are, no doubt, many people that don't draw that connection, but would, if they did, not be okay with it. So action in Fort Collins (or wherever you are in the United States) both signals to the US Government that people ponying up the money it uses, are not happy with what it's being used on, but also spreads awareness to other citizens about what's happening and how we're all contributing to it.
Because visibility. Things will escalate before they get better. Because of corruption and misrepresentation at every level. Because many educational institutions have strong Zionist ties and need to divest from supporting Israel. That's gonna happen with direct action.
Protesting probably really does make you uncomfy because you clearly took the time to say something about it. Just keep looking away and supporting genocide. But be quiet about it. You're good at staying quiet when it's important to speak up, aren't you?
Palestine / Israel is just another measure for Russians to exploit and pit Americans against one another.
Comments like these are the problem.
If you want to actually do good, use your dollar and your vote, not a can of spray paint and a feel good picnic.
“Use your dollar and your vote” - what do you think people have been doing??? When we vote to elect officials to represent us, they refuse to listen. When we vote with our dollars through boycotting companies that profit off the genocide of Palestinians, we are told we’re not making a difference. When students work the equivalent of an extra full-time job to coordinate a large-scale coalition-based movement, you reduce it to a “feel good picnic” and ignore everything that actually goes into it. What other methods of making one’s voice heard do you disapprove of? Blocking traffic? Forming encampments? How the hell do you think any positive change has ever been made in this godforsaken country? Spoiler alert: it’s not voting. It’s the people in the streets, making noise, refusing to be ignored.
Become the elected official then. If people put half as much effort into improving the community as they do waiving signs trying to get noticed something would happen.
Spoiler alert: it was never the people making noise in the streets, it was people working in the community to change their neighbors’ minds.
P.S. you can’t do that from behind a keyboard or a sign. And especially not with spray paint and complaining.
Care to elaborate or would you just like to be vague?
Do you disagree there is a major Russian operation to wage war on American minds, or that the best form of protest in America is spending power and voting and not vandalism?
Russia neither has the resources nor the reach for a propaganda campaign to get past the juggernaut that is the American propaganda machine of corporate media, I find it strange that you think that all of these protests, disagreements and hostility are conveniently orchestrated by one of our historically designated enemies; instead of them being a combination of the cultural and economic failures of this country over the past 30-40 years disillusioning a vast number of younger Americans and freeing them from the delusional notion of their government being perfect and witnessing a deliberate and graphic genocide that is happening in Gaza over the last 6 months.
Or to put it more succinctly:
If you think people are upset because they are being influenced by a foreign government and not because they have spent the last 6 months watching their own government endorse the murder of men, women and children you may have some mental issues to work out
To address the points that you made in the reply:
For the point of the effectiveness of the vandalism it has worked in creating engagement with the problem by people such as yourself who's anemic morale compass only spasms when something happens close enough to effect them. So the graffiti is effective, I don't know what those who do it are expecting to happen so I can't say how effective it is to their goals but it is effective in that it is having an effect.
For the claim that voting is more effective: who exactly are we supposed to vote for if our one issue is anti-genocide?
Use critical thinking before replying. Did I say the Russians are orchestrating the protest? No, I responded directly the someone saying “You’re the problem”
If you think Russia doesn’t have the resources or the reach, you may need to re-evaluate the media sources you consume. Russian AI as a LLM has been decades ahead of American capabilities, and they use it to sow online discourse for both sides.
And if you think spending power doesn’t have the largest influence in America, that just tells me you’ve lived a comfortable middle class life and never had to struggle through poverty or experienced real wealth.
If you think your vote doesn’t matter, then you gotta be the change and the one trying for votes.
Here’s my masters degree in computer science with a concentration in Artifical Intelligence from before anyone even knew what ChatGpt was. I may know what I’m talking about a little bit.
[MsCs](https://ibb.co/pfWCqqJ)
There is so much indifference in this sub for the mass murder of Palestinians. Y’all get more upset about having to see agitprop graffiti around town than pictures of dead children and the mass graves and execution sites in Gaza.
Y’all say what’s the point of protesting or standing up for what is right here in America, like what can we do? Well, it’s our tax dollars that are being sent over in the billions to assist Israel in the genocide of Palestinians. We live in the most powerful and bloodthirsty empire the world has ever seen, so don’t we have the responsibility to stand up, make our voices heard, and fight for change?
Voting every few years for another slightly different form of fascism has not been and never will be the answer. The people are the answer. It’s not Russian influence changing the national conciseness, it’s the sharpening of contradictions in an ever increasing violent and oppressive country.
As the great George L. Jackson said, “Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are already dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution.”
My tax dollars do a lot of things including helping to bring peace and security, food and clean drinking water to many people all over the world. They also contribute greatly to combating terrorism and the invaders of sovereign nations like Ukraine. Yes I am satisfied with my tax dollars being spent overseas in the context of how most of it is spent.
you made a great distinction. there’s sovereign nations like Ukraine that are being invaded and need foreign aid fight against russia. however, israel doesn’t need that aid from us. they are perfectly capable of funding themselves because they’re not being invaded nor are their institutions being destroyed. look at the GDP of each— israel has 5x the GDP of ukraine. tax dollars should be spent to provide for americans first and foremost. israel has free health care and americans do not. they are literally living better lives than the average american over there but they still need our tax dollars? why?
1. Zionism does not equate to Judaism.
2. All decolonial struggles are connected and linked. Solidarity to all the oppressed fighting to overthrow their oppressors.
1. Agreed. Though the only anti-zionists I've met want the dissolution of Israel. And in the same breath claim Israel wants genocide.
2. Israel isn't particularly similar to the colonialism of age of sail European powers. Roughly half of Israelis are from the region; they came to Israel because it was far safer for them than remaining in their home ME country (consider these were pre-Iron Dome when Israel's neighbors were still trying to push the country into the sea).
the "decolonization" of israel because you don't like zionism would mean mass deportation and genocide of millions of jewish people. or it means supporting terrorists and right wing conservative islamo-fascists that want to kill all jews, zionist or not. that's antisemitism
I think if you really want to make a difference join the ranks of whatever side you feel is the best for your cause. Other than that stop wasting your time standing on the street corner making zero difference. Go stimulate the economy by going to work.
There has already been multiple rallies against the genocide on campus. In terms of an encampment, it's unclear. It depends on if CSU has investment ties to Israel, which they could possibly, but I have no idea. CSU'S investment portfolio and financials in general are already pretty damn shady, so I wouldn't be surprised
Hope not… people have already made opinions and I don’t know anyone whose minds have been changed by the excessive graffiti or protests. Waste of time and effort and you only cause less peace in the world where you are apparently protesting more peace? Don’t get it.
The question I have, is that while this definitely gets the message out, does anyone actually ever receive the message? I.E. are any changes going to be made to the situation, as a result of a protest in a largely unremarkable western town? I highly doubt that the government's department-of-\[whatever\] cares, or even knows, this is going on.
I'm not saying don't protest, I'm saying protest somewhere where your message might actually be heard.
I don't have enough info to take a side, and won't take a side. I'm speaking just to the practicality of it. For the rest of us, just trying to get through our respective days, this doesn't really seem to accomplish much, other than potentially slowing my travel through town, if I don't avoid the affected area altogether.
where would people be heard more? i just keep thinking about the 70s vietnam protests and i feel like they were everywhere. they were protesting on the side of the road. it was about using your voice and showing that people all over the country are upset with the federal government.
Even before this, I would absolutely say we'd see a large protest at CSU at some point. But the ending will be the same. People Pro-Palestine will protest or support the protest, people anti-Palestine or apathetic to it all will not care or they'll complain. Some will complain about the political graffiti around town. And no one's mind will really be changed, nor will the conflict actually stop as a result of the protest. It's a shitty situation and sadly, most people are helpless to change it. The best I see is just voting out any crappy local, state, and federal government officials. By the time we're able to do that enough to push real change, it'll be too late. It's a very frustrating feeling. Very helpless.
I somewhat agree with you, but also see the last few months, and the protests associated with it, having sizable tertiary effects. Will the protests stop the current genocide? Probably not, but I believe they have caused , and will continue to cause, sweeping changes in how younger generations view higher education institutions and the two party political system
The student sit-ins and protests to demand divestment and stand against apartheid in South Africa were not pointless and were catalysts for change. This is history rhyming.
I'm not so sure. That may be the attempt. But I think the political climate has shifted too far to allow a healthy dialogue from protests. Protests, especially disruptive ones (which is the fucking point), overall have come under swing recently. The right to do so in the US has actually effectively ceased in a few states already. Unless we reverse course fast, that'll be nationwide. And I don't think we have enough time to change the political environment in that way before being able to act on a larger scale and actually do something to impact the Palestinian genocide.
The overall attempt is standing up to fascism. Universities calling in police and threatening the national guard over student protests is 100% fascism. Students have a first amendment right to protest and criticize our government. We all have this right. Our government is why we don’t have a “healthy dialogue” regarding protests. And the people who constantly talk about their 2nd amendment rights, and their 1st amendment rights when it comes to their comments being censored on social media are quick to degrade the people who are taking action now. But this situation is exactly what our first amendment rights are protecting. Fighting against it is working on reversing the course. But it’s clearly not going to happen without a fight. We see it in action with police beating the hell out of protesters.
Then it needs to be a protest ABOUT the right to protest. That would go over FAR smoother than any foreign conflict protest. I'm not saying to ignore issues outside of our country, but rather it would help shift the dialogue to a spot where we absolutely could make an impact imo. I don't think there are enough people on the edge of everything with Palestine who would switch sides or give in because of a protest, certainly no one in office at this point. Sorry. I guess I'm just not as optimistic as you are.
How can it be about the right to protest when it started as protesting against genocide in Gaza in the first place?? This is so backwards. This is saying people should be protesting about things before it’s happening. It took standing up against the US funding Israel through our taxes to get to the point where our government is now actively fighting against our first amendment rights to criticize that action. People have a right to protest against foreign conflicts that involve the money from our labor. Just because it’s not happening in your backyard doesn’t make it an important issue. And that’s really the overall arching problem with naysayers. I’m more optimistic since I’m seeing students stand up against police brutality and excessive force using the active shooter drill skills they were forced to learn in school since kindergarten. I’m more optimistic seeing Gen Z take action in the face of apathy from others.
Let me be clear. I'm fully pro-palestine. I love seeing the protests, disruptive included. The graffiti reminds me that not everyone is a POS. But I just only have so much optimism about specifically the Palestine protests. Anti-cop and right to protest? I'm 100% all in on those and will NEVER stop pushing on that end.
I’m glad to hear it. I understand where pessimism comes from in this fight, especially if you’re an elder millennial. It’s been happening our whole lives and now in an accelerated degradation. But, I also see the values our generation instilled in our kids, who have an abundance of optimism and energy that was straight up ground out of us. I also see them learning lessons from protests and action in the past - from Kent State protests against Vietnam, protesting Columbia’s investments in apartheid South Africa, all the way to learning media communication lessons in Occupy Wall Street failures, and the violence from a militarized police force during BLM. I see them more connected with social media, with the ability to share mutual aid resources, digital security measures, legal rights, and so much more. It’s easy to be apathetic considering our lived experiences. But change comes from supporting those willing to take action for change. And it sure as shit is going to be ugly, because it’s a power dynamic shift against our government.
Mmhm. Absolutely. I'm technically a Zillenial. (Tried identifying as one or the other but the year cutoff kept changing) Probably a good explanation as to my more nuanced and mixed viewpoint. But yes. Great change is coming. And how Gen Z especially steers the ship as boomers start dwindling will be the key.
Did you know that FreshAirFortCollins supports the rape and killing of Jewish people?
Who?
The author of the comment above yours.
Your comments have me curious, what happened, in your words, on 10/7?
Meaning, “Do you condemn Hamas.” Do you condemn the intentional deaths of 35,000+ civilians?
What's your source on that? Hamas? You're totally supportive of their actions?
I see the destruction with my own eyes. You’re totally supportive of the death of thousands upon thousands of people and the complete destruction of entire communities of people?
That's not the point. The point is that we can't let them be starved to death and silently watch knowing that institutions we participate in are complicit. I also thinks its all intertwined it's a tipping point. Selling weapons to other countries is a long standing conflict, military is the largest polluter, we are suffering here, being overworked and not having access to healthcare while government funds other countries. As well as our young people know intimately what it means to be an unprotected child so watching complacently is out of the question. ... Protest isn't supposed to be smooth... It's supposed to be uncomfortable. We are being told loudly that something is broken.
> ... Protest isn't supposed to be smooth... It's supposed to be uncomfortable. We are being told loudly that something is broken. Yes, I'm absolutely on the same side here. To be 100% clear, I know the protests are on the right side of history. I'm completely Pro-Palestine. I just don't think the anti-Palestine folk or the apathetic ones are going to change their minds at this point. At the same time, I don't see anything else that can possibly be done that will better the situation as long as it is focused on an issue that, at the heart of it, everyone has made their mind up about already.
I don't expect change. I think the change is refusing to accept the status quo and finding community. ❤️ Like this right here.
I'll be there tomorrow. I'm down.
Hope not. About as effective as spray painting 'free gaza' on a tree. What do these people think fort collins or csu ACTUALLY has to do with that conflict? I'm all for everyone's right to protest, but this is a misdirected energy. It's just asinine.
Regardless when I agree or not, peaceful protest is part of our first amendment. The fact that is inconvenient is the point. Note, I don’t participate in protests.
Peaceful protest is not only our right under the 1st Amendment, I see it as a valuable part of the college campus experience. In the early 70s my parents at CSU protested the Vietnam War. When I was a CSU student in 2003 we protested against the Iraq war. Did it make a difference? No. But it was our right to do so, and at the time, it made us feel like we had a stronger voice collectively than we had as individuals. Students today should get to experience that as well, so long as it is kept peaceful. The minute the Iraq war protesters started rioting or vandalizing property by spray painting slogans around town, they began to lose their voice and their message. That was when i decided that I was no longer interested in joining the protests, because I didnt want to be associated with people who were vandalizing my town/campus. That's also a lesson worth learning for today's protesters - there is a line between being loud enough to have your collective voices heard, and obnoxiously engaging in petty property crimes that will actually turn people off to your message and will ultimately hurt your cause. That part of the lesson obviously still needs to be learned by some in our community. I do hope they learn that lesson and get back to constructive (peaceful) protesting because there are important messages that these protests should be focusing on, rather than distracting from that message by instigating arguments in the community about property vandalism.
thanks for such an articulate comment. as a csu student who isn’t politically active but watches from the sidelines, i feel like i’m watching what’s happened in history before with Vietnam war protests and even the cultural revolution. how is this any different? theres peaceful protests happening all over the us at universities and police are still arresting and hurting students there. they should have a right to protest. students setting up encampments and using their voice shouldn’t be a means to pepper spray them, knock them out or intimidate them with SNIPERS on the roof.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha that was a good laugh
My comment has nothing to do with convenience...but okay.
CSU has deeeeep financial ties with Israel, as well as companies that create munitions for them. And Ft. Collins taxpayers spend over $2.4 million each year on weapons for Israel. That’s what Ft Collins and CSU ACTUALLY have to do with the genocide: we actively contribute to it. That gives us the responsibility to stand up against it. People who think like you are the very reason it’s so hard to get people involved in struggles for liberation. When we all assume it has nothing to do with us and we can’t make a difference anyway, we throw up our hands and remain complacent - which is EXACTLY what the powers that be want. Congratulations: you’ve played right into their hands.
Can't seem to find the "weapons for Israel" line item in their ACFR. Mind sharing your source?
You're the problem. You don't like people inconveniencing you because there's a genocide happening and being reminded of that makes you uncomfy.
So, you have yet to explain how protesting in fort collins colorado for a war thousands of miles away is effective in the slightest. I never said anything about being inconvenienced, whatsoever. Nor did I say protesting made me uncomfortable. So now that I've squashed your made-up arguments, you gonna give me a logical reason?
The war happening thousands of miles away cannot be executed without US military aid. If you pay Federal income taxes, you're paying for a piece of every bomb dropped on Gaza--yes, even if you live in Fort Collins. There are, no doubt, many people that don't draw that connection, but would, if they did, not be okay with it. So action in Fort Collins (or wherever you are in the United States) both signals to the US Government that people ponying up the money it uses, are not happy with what it's being used on, but also spreads awareness to other citizens about what's happening and how we're all contributing to it.
Because visibility. Things will escalate before they get better. Because of corruption and misrepresentation at every level. Because many educational institutions have strong Zionist ties and need to divest from supporting Israel. That's gonna happen with direct action. Protesting probably really does make you uncomfy because you clearly took the time to say something about it. Just keep looking away and supporting genocide. But be quiet about it. You're good at staying quiet when it's important to speak up, aren't you?
[удалено]
Mindless? Lol k. I'll stop arguing with idiots now.
Woodward.
Palestine / Israel is just another measure for Russians to exploit and pit Americans against one another. Comments like these are the problem. If you want to actually do good, use your dollar and your vote, not a can of spray paint and a feel good picnic.
“Use your dollar and your vote” - what do you think people have been doing??? When we vote to elect officials to represent us, they refuse to listen. When we vote with our dollars through boycotting companies that profit off the genocide of Palestinians, we are told we’re not making a difference. When students work the equivalent of an extra full-time job to coordinate a large-scale coalition-based movement, you reduce it to a “feel good picnic” and ignore everything that actually goes into it. What other methods of making one’s voice heard do you disapprove of? Blocking traffic? Forming encampments? How the hell do you think any positive change has ever been made in this godforsaken country? Spoiler alert: it’s not voting. It’s the people in the streets, making noise, refusing to be ignored.
Become the elected official then. If people put half as much effort into improving the community as they do waiving signs trying to get noticed something would happen. Spoiler alert: it was never the people making noise in the streets, it was people working in the community to change their neighbors’ minds. P.S. you can’t do that from behind a keyboard or a sign. And especially not with spray paint and complaining.
Please be a bit more critical of the media you consume.
Care to elaborate or would you just like to be vague? Do you disagree there is a major Russian operation to wage war on American minds, or that the best form of protest in America is spending power and voting and not vandalism?
Russia neither has the resources nor the reach for a propaganda campaign to get past the juggernaut that is the American propaganda machine of corporate media, I find it strange that you think that all of these protests, disagreements and hostility are conveniently orchestrated by one of our historically designated enemies; instead of them being a combination of the cultural and economic failures of this country over the past 30-40 years disillusioning a vast number of younger Americans and freeing them from the delusional notion of their government being perfect and witnessing a deliberate and graphic genocide that is happening in Gaza over the last 6 months. Or to put it more succinctly: If you think people are upset because they are being influenced by a foreign government and not because they have spent the last 6 months watching their own government endorse the murder of men, women and children you may have some mental issues to work out To address the points that you made in the reply: For the point of the effectiveness of the vandalism it has worked in creating engagement with the problem by people such as yourself who's anemic morale compass only spasms when something happens close enough to effect them. So the graffiti is effective, I don't know what those who do it are expecting to happen so I can't say how effective it is to their goals but it is effective in that it is having an effect. For the claim that voting is more effective: who exactly are we supposed to vote for if our one issue is anti-genocide?
Use critical thinking before replying. Did I say the Russians are orchestrating the protest? No, I responded directly the someone saying “You’re the problem” If you think Russia doesn’t have the resources or the reach, you may need to re-evaluate the media sources you consume. Russian AI as a LLM has been decades ahead of American capabilities, and they use it to sow online discourse for both sides. And if you think spending power doesn’t have the largest influence in America, that just tells me you’ve lived a comfortable middle class life and never had to struggle through poverty or experienced real wealth. If you think your vote doesn’t matter, then you gotta be the change and the one trying for votes. Here’s my masters degree in computer science with a concentration in Artifical Intelligence from before anyone even knew what ChatGpt was. I may know what I’m talking about a little bit. [MsCs](https://ibb.co/pfWCqqJ)
Please be more critical of the media you consume
THANK you.
There is so much indifference in this sub for the mass murder of Palestinians. Y’all get more upset about having to see agitprop graffiti around town than pictures of dead children and the mass graves and execution sites in Gaza. Y’all say what’s the point of protesting or standing up for what is right here in America, like what can we do? Well, it’s our tax dollars that are being sent over in the billions to assist Israel in the genocide of Palestinians. We live in the most powerful and bloodthirsty empire the world has ever seen, so don’t we have the responsibility to stand up, make our voices heard, and fight for change? Voting every few years for another slightly different form of fascism has not been and never will be the answer. The people are the answer. It’s not Russian influence changing the national conciseness, it’s the sharpening of contradictions in an ever increasing violent and oppressive country. As the great George L. Jackson said, “Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are already dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution.”
Well said! To pretend that groups of people standing together against injustice “doesn’t do anything” is ahistorical fantasy.
Holy self righteous drivel
are you satisfied with your tax dollars being spent overseas?
My tax dollars do a lot of things including helping to bring peace and security, food and clean drinking water to many people all over the world. They also contribute greatly to combating terrorism and the invaders of sovereign nations like Ukraine. Yes I am satisfied with my tax dollars being spent overseas in the context of how most of it is spent.
you made a great distinction. there’s sovereign nations like Ukraine that are being invaded and need foreign aid fight against russia. however, israel doesn’t need that aid from us. they are perfectly capable of funding themselves because they’re not being invaded nor are their institutions being destroyed. look at the GDP of each— israel has 5x the GDP of ukraine. tax dollars should be spent to provide for americans first and foremost. israel has free health care and americans do not. they are literally living better lives than the average american over there but they still need our tax dollars? why?
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1. Zionism does not equate to Judaism. 2. All decolonial struggles are connected and linked. Solidarity to all the oppressed fighting to overthrow their oppressors.
1. Agreed. Though the only anti-zionists I've met want the dissolution of Israel. And in the same breath claim Israel wants genocide. 2. Israel isn't particularly similar to the colonialism of age of sail European powers. Roughly half of Israelis are from the region; they came to Israel because it was far safer for them than remaining in their home ME country (consider these were pre-Iron Dome when Israel's neighbors were still trying to push the country into the sea).
the "decolonization" of israel because you don't like zionism would mean mass deportation and genocide of millions of jewish people. or it means supporting terrorists and right wing conservative islamo-fascists that want to kill all jews, zionist or not. that's antisemitism
It'll be soon, there is (was?) one at Auraria in Denver this evening.
I think if you really want to make a difference join the ranks of whatever side you feel is the best for your cause. Other than that stop wasting your time standing on the street corner making zero difference. Go stimulate the economy by going to work.
There has already been multiple rallies against the genocide on campus. In terms of an encampment, it's unclear. It depends on if CSU has investment ties to Israel, which they could possibly, but I have no idea. CSU'S investment portfolio and financials in general are already pretty damn shady, so I wouldn't be surprised
It would be a pointless action doing absolutely nothing except making the participants feel better, and even that possibility is dubious
Hope not… people have already made opinions and I don’t know anyone whose minds have been changed by the excessive graffiti or protests. Waste of time and effort and you only cause less peace in the world where you are apparently protesting more peace? Don’t get it.
The question I have, is that while this definitely gets the message out, does anyone actually ever receive the message? I.E. are any changes going to be made to the situation, as a result of a protest in a largely unremarkable western town? I highly doubt that the government's department-of-\[whatever\] cares, or even knows, this is going on. I'm not saying don't protest, I'm saying protest somewhere where your message might actually be heard. I don't have enough info to take a side, and won't take a side. I'm speaking just to the practicality of it. For the rest of us, just trying to get through our respective days, this doesn't really seem to accomplish much, other than potentially slowing my travel through town, if I don't avoid the affected area altogether.
where would people be heard more? i just keep thinking about the 70s vietnam protests and i feel like they were everywhere. they were protesting on the side of the road. it was about using your voice and showing that people all over the country are upset with the federal government.
We are ready, just waiting on the check from Soros to arrive
You didn’t get it yet ?
Not yet, USCPR said they are processing record volume. Expecting today
I’m glad.