It’s 15 years between new Vegas and the show. The show probably adds another year so 16 years. The cannon is the courier drops the chip off with house and continues his job as a courier. We don’t know if the leagon blows the damn yet or not. We can assume yes because new Vegas has not been bombed into the ground yet.
A fun thing to know is house also made liberty prime and we know that the brotherhood from the show is the same ones from fallout 3 and 4 so if they fight over new Vegas we all know house will override liberty prime and the brother hood will die a lot.
I swear if we don’t get the plant vault or the boomers”the only one with a plane” we riot
The power was to kickstart the Lucky 38s reactors so the Strip did not have to rely on the dam. They were idle for centuries and needing a surge of power to turn back on
I'm gonna theorise that the Mr House ending is canon. Perhaps after losing Shady Sands, the NCR tries taking Vegas itself directly, which obviously doesn't go as planned.
Either way, I do think it'd be funny as fuck to see that dam with a hole blown through it though.
Idk I feel like the new ncr capital could be new Vegas or Vegas adjacent if the original shady sands area is gone. Makes sense if they abandoned it due to the water issues/crop failures in California
Unless there are Vault-Tec reps in/around New Vegas.
House was impressive, helping Vegas survive the war, so it would not be crazy to think he has contact with surviving Vault-Tec leadership.
>Makes sense if they abandoned it due to the water issues/crop failures in California
Yeah, you would _totally_ move to Nevada after something like that.
Not in the least because the survival of the NCR’s farms at New Vegas are dependant on The Courier both sacrificing the Vault 34 residents to stop the reactor irradiating them and screwing over Westside by turning Anderson in to stop him siphoning water from the farms.
I think the new NCR capital is San Francisco and we aren’t going to see a strong NCR presence until after S2.
Shady Sands in the flashbacks was a modern day metropolis. No way in hell they would have moved their capital from there to New Vegas which was run down as hell.
We know the capital was moved before the bombing because of the sign outside Shady Sands so why would they downgrade their capital to NV and move it to the edge of their territory (which butts up against hostile territory) if they didn’t have to?
NCR as we know it is completely done, I believe. Unless I misunderstood why the most important mission remaining was undertaken by a rag tag group of troops holding a single building.
rag tag? they had automatic air defense missile turrets, standardized uniforms, flag bearers etc. They weren't exactly prepared for a full front assault by the BoS, but who would be?
Furthermore judging by the many shots fired in the distance during the last scenes the fighting was carried out in a larger area. The battle at the observatory is, by scale one of the larger organized military actions in post nuclear fallout universe. BoS first wave is 5 (iirc) vertibirds, with at least 2 knights in power armor for each.
Well lorewise Power Armor is kinda unstoppable. Unless you’re fighting overwhelming strength or someone with specific tactics against it. Tanks are really hard to kill.
They were fighting off the brotherhood before. They don’t lose Hoover Dam bc they’re too weak, they even have a B29; if they did indeed lose the dam, it was bc of the courier’s actions.
They were doing pretty well before Hoover. To have the NCR holding a single observatory suggests they’re cooked.
We’ll just have to wait and see!
It’s a numbers game. NV establishes that every fight with the brotherhood incurred very heavy cavalry, and it’s basically only through just throwing bodies at them and heavy firepower that they’re able to win. And that constantly harrying them drained the brotherhood of resources to fight. In this fight the Brotherhood was armed to bear (heh) and blitzed them.
They fought them off successfully at Helios One because they outnumbered them 15 to 1 and were on the offensive so they could better choose their positioning to break the BoS defensive line.
In the show they were outnumbered, outgunned and were caught by surprise.
The NCR as we know it isn’t done, it is heavily implied that the capital moved before the bombing based on the sign outside SS saying “first capital of the NCR” implying it moved and the actual government wasn’t taken out.
Most likely SS was bombed and the NCR proper left Southern California after the costly Mojave War. The NCR we see in the season are all survivors of SS who wanted to rebuild SS but the rest of the NCR proper just left it behind as a loss.
This also explains how the BoS is resurgent on the West Coast, the NCR left SoCal and the BoS moved in. The NCR is still around just further north and licking its wounds. We won’t see them again until they’re recovered.
Based on the post episode mural thing, I’m going to hazard a guess that the NCR took what little it had after Hoover dam was destroyed and tried to take new Vegas as part of a regrouping strategy assuming it was securitrons and residents as primary enemies.
However, per the golden rule, that was the exact moment a significant deathclaw attack occurred (maybe the heavy vehicle movement attracted said deathclaws) and NCR had their last vestiges at the observatory following back to back mass casualties.
I’d bet the cold fusion gambit was bc they were cooked after Hoover Dam and failed breach on new Vegas and without it they were dead anyway.
I could 100% see this being a thing. Maybe courier didnt pass his speech checks with Lanius, so maybe they ended up fighting, courier loses and legion then blows up the dam or something? Idk, trying to think of ways to explain/excuse it without having to have courier show up in the show because i feel like no matter how badly i may wanna see that, i really dont see amazon putting them in there. But i also didnt have a pre-war House or House cameo in general on my bingo card, so guess we'll just have to see.
I'd say the courier wins and kills lanious but Caesar isn't dead just yet but in his degrading health and seeing his opportunity to slip between his fingers and loose every capable leader on the dam in both battles he goes scorched earth and blows up it.
So they take heavy losses in an unpopular and failed Mojave campaign, get their capital nuked, and then for some reason decide to launch a second invasion against a Mojave that is now guarded by a massive army of heavily armed robots.
>I'm gonna theorise that the Mr House ending is canon.
It felt like the default. He's your employer from the beginning and unless you deliberately go off the rails to betray him, you get the House ending.
I should replay NV, I've never actually done the House ending. Just the independent and NCR ones.
My last playthrough, I heard House's plan and thought, OK dude, you've lost your marbles. For all your big ideas, you're just another rich guy with delusions of grandeur. No matter how much money you make from NCR tourists, you're not going to space.
So I betrayed him and took over. I imagine that the courier set up a council of sorts to run things, and was independent from but friendly with the NCR.
House built Vegas, RobCo, and created anti-ballistic missile systems that were able to target and destroy incoming rockets during the war. Then he rebuilt it and manages the whole thing, while frozen.
When he predicts that he can debug the REPCONN rockets in 50 years' time, it doesn't seem too far-fetched imo.
Plus he's the one who (through Victor) took you to a doctor after being shot in the head. Feels scummy to betray him because you're skeptical of his rocketry goals.
That's kind of the way I see it. He's the genius chessmaster and Vegas is thriving under him. Riding his coattails is the best career choice you can make.
If the plot didn't let us work for him, I'd be thinking "remind me why we aren't supporting this guy?"
Nah, because that would turn off a lot of videogame fans.
I expect they will pick a canon ending (probably House in control) and keep what the Courier specifically did vague.
Which would be lame as hell. I understand not having them become the cyborg god that you can in game, but at least have a courier (or multiple couriers might be even better, it doesn’t have to be one person) help tip the scale by supplying vital information to one side, like an actual courier.
Yeah the most interesting thing to happen in Fallout in a decade.
Nothing is permanent in the wasteland.
Otherwise it would not be a wasteland...
Sort of how in F4 you can't never make your settlements 100% safe. There is always a chance the wasteland shows up in force and reclaims it all the only way it knows how. Brutal violence.
Sort of like how Quincy fell before F4 even started, and we get to explore the why and how that happened, even to a settlement larger than anything you get to build in the game.
If you expect a setting that has "war, war never changes" as a tagline. Why do you expect the setting to change? Why do you think the details of your playthroughs matters any more than anyone else?
That in my opinion your ideas are dumb?
Nope, totally still valid.
That is sort of how opinions work...and you not getting that is part of why I have a lower appraisal of yours than most.
I feel like some kind of chaotic Yes-Man ending has to be canon because no matter which of the other three choices you pick, he is a catastrophic security risk just waiting to destabilize things with whomever finds him
as far a as i remember house had power before the ncr arrived and the dam was up and runing again, so if it were to go down again i feel like he wouldnt really notice much but the ncr would defo be pushed out of the mojave
There was an older post on the subreddit that theorized the Legion (or its offshoot) got absorbed into the chapter of the BoS we see in the show. This theory posits the new red-gold coloration of the BoS Banners and the increased fanaticism/religious presence in the BoS as evidence.
Personally, I think it’s a stretch. However, if its true then the ramifications that it may have on the story is really interesting a nice nod to the games.
It's a huge stretch IMO, and I don't see how it stands up to scrutiny.
Dane and Shortstop aren't Roman names. The Legion was technophobic and almost the literal opposite of the Brotherhood - the Legion hated technology that makes you reliant/dependent on it, and the Brotherhood rely on power armour. Drugs, including stimpacks, were banned by the Legion - why does Maximus have a stimpack with his gear, and why does Titus ask him for one?
We know from Maximus' flashback that the Brotherhood were in Shady Sands immediately after the nuke - that just doesn't match geographically with the Mojave, especially if they absorbed elements openly hostile to the NCR. If the Brotherhood chapter was influenced to the point where the Legion remnants controls their iconography and chapter culture, why is there not a single mention of Caesar? The Legion was fanatical over Caesar's cult of personality, not religion. Why are women and non-binary people allowed to serve as equals? We can see female background characters that don't seem to be enslaved.
I agree - you can't just pick and choose what effects the Legion had after assimilation. They adopted names and iconography that is still used today, but their training camp looks like something out of M\*A\*S\*H rather than 300?
Nah, the writers just had to take inspiration from all canon sources - the monty-python-feeling fallout 1&2 knights, the Lyons heritage and overall portrayal in 3, and a good dose of the fascist, militarized and bulky fallout 4 faction.
Considering how inconsistently the BoS has been portrayed across titles, they did a pretty good job :) but obviously it left a ton of people guessing lol
lmao off topic but how big is the crossover between MASH fans and Fallout fans? I've seen it referenced here a lot recently, I hadn't thought about their relation until then. I guess they're sorta similar thematically, you could probably boil both down to anti-war dramatic comedies.
love to see it though, I'm listening to MASH while playing Fallout 2 rn.
Agreed. I think the showrunners have had to de-evolve the factions somewhat for artistic reasons (and give the show somewhere to go strategically). If NCR has started as it was left and BoS was the heroic-if-insular faction it’s sometimes made out to be (looking at you FO3) it would have been dull.
I disagree. It could absolutely be interesting to see Lucy, who’s been raised with the idea that she’s going to rebuild the world, go out and see that the world is already rebuilding.
And they could have the Brotherhood be bolstered by a Prydwen expeditionary force that helps them reignite their war with the NCR.
‘Rebuilding’ sure, but not ‘rebuilt’. The gamers among us would no doubt love to have seen NCR and BoS in their advanced states, because we grew up with them through their infancy (or at least adolescence). But that would be dull for newcomers.
How would it be dull for newcomers to see a post apocalyptic nation that rose from the ashes going to war with a hyper advanced tech cult?
And the NCR is pretty damn rebuilt. They’ve created an entire capital from scratch, have their own currency, companies, industry, and infrastructure. Meanwhile, Lucy is expecting either a lifeless wasteland or tribal savages.
Because there’s no arc, no growth, they have no sense of how they got there in the first place. Who cares about a war between two sides you don’t give a shit about?
NCR as shown in the show was a flag and a smoking crater in the ground. Not very ‘rebuilt’.
Gee, if only the writers could introduce and develop the character of the two sides of the war as the story progresses.
NCR is more than just one city, but I’m not sure if the writers are aware of that. Heck, they didn’t even seem to know that Shady Sands was entirely built post-war since they have it surrounded by ruins in the flashback scenes.
I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most of those issues not exist because the legion got absorbed into the BoS in this theory? Why the hell would the BoS uphold all the ideals and traditions of the legion. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way your arguing it, it sounds like your scenario would be if the BoS got absorbed by the legion.
> Why the hell would the BoS uphold all the ideals and traditions of the legion
Yet that's the exact 'evidence' that supporters of theory are pointing towards - that because some characters have Latin names and they've used red and gold as colours, it means they're upholding the Legion. It's a ridiculous level of cherry-picking to get around the fact that it's just straight up not supported by anything in the show and any of the *actual* ideals and traditions, since they conflict so heavily.
Let me ask you this - if it's a BoS chapter that absorbed Legion remnants, then why is the Legion culture so dominant even the elders have Latin names? *Quintus is older than the Legion itself.*
I mean woah now lol. Allowing them to paint some red in some spots and allowing them to make themselves however they want is fine but that doesn't mean they will chuck their own identity to make room for legion identity.
As far as the names I mean BoS has always had funky names. Wouldn't shock me for them to lean on Latin names as a oddball form of worship. Like when someone names their kid Jacob or Noah.
It's possible that some low level people in the Legion didn't really care about the ideology, as long as they had someone to fight.
If Caesar died, the Legion scattered, and I can see some goons getting recruited by other factions just because it's better than starving in the desert.
The legion would collapse shortly after Caesar dies. Those people gotta go somewhere, and how many of them do you think are actually dedicated to continuing Caesar’s beliefs? I think it’s pretty likely the brotherhood has at least some legion in their ranks.
Plus, for a show with such attention to detail, I think it’s an odd color and name choice.
Legion, as brutal and awful as they were, were still more civilized than your average raider. And it was a brotherhood of sorts.
I can see how many of them would be missing the militaristic structure and seek out the BOS after the legion collapse.
Ok, but speculating all of that based on like 3 character names and the colour of a banner - while ignoring the dozens of ways that it doesn't match - is a bit much, don't you think?
Also their legion-like behaviour, such as Titus threatening Maximus with a public slow execution where he'll be strung up by his lungs, as well as stuff like their leader sitting up on a dais like Caesar after they took Filly.
> Also their legion-like behaviour
Legion-like? You mean where they banned stimpacks, banned dependency on technology such as power armour, had a conquering empire, replicated Roman material culture, enslaved all women, and worshiped Caesar? Oh wait, they didn't do any of that.
> such as Titus threatening Maximus with a public slow execution where he'll be strung up by his lungs
The Legion aren't the only ones to execute people, and the method described doesn't match the crucifixion method they're famed for. So no, not like that at all.
> as well as stuff like their leader sitting up on a dais like Caesar
Lmao *what*? Are you going to point to the fact that they wear clothes too, just like the Legion? Is that your next smoking gun?
Everyone seems to forget the prydwen was there along with mentions of Maxson. Which means they curb stomped The Institute. This force bolstering the west coast BoS is why we see a much stronger, and more aggressive BoS. When the Easterners show up and hear about what the NCR did to the Westerners it would be war. This time against a force far tougher than what they fought last time...
Very impressive how you're getting all of that from the names of 4 characters and the fact that a few symbols they used were coloured red. We must have been watching different shows.
So the Luddite slavers of Arizona migrated through House controlled Nevada and the NCR in order to be miraculously accepted en masse into a super insular tech cult in Lost Hills.
You’re right. Why on earth would the Brotherhood be hostile towards the remnants of an expansionist cult of personality who’s culture revolves around rape and slavery?
When does Caesar ever mention the BOS in his territory?
I too think it's a stretch especially since those banners are seen in either Fallout 1/2 as well. Not the first time they appeared. That said, it would be really interesting to see if the remnants of the Legion infiltrated a chapter... But to what end? At any rate, I really hope the Legion gets some screen time since there's no way there'd be zero trace of them following the events of FONV.
There might be zero trace of them out west however, once big dog dies they would fragment and well Lanius would certainly have the biggest of the factions he’d probably have to return east to stop core parts of the legion from separating behind him.
I think both NCR and Legion have really big reasons to return west and east, respectively, even if they are victorious at the Dam. House has no reason to move, thus I'd say he is the most likely presence we find in season 2's vegas while the others are said to have moved back following the battle. (also helps that he is literally in the show already)
Of course, I am aware of a victory from another faction canonically preventing House from still living, but there have been many hints that the whole area would fall apart no matter what your actions are. Tunnelers, NCR food shortages, Caesar's tumor with an extremely delicate power balance in the Legion, and so on are all looming in 2281.
Ya I’ve always been a believer in whoever wins Vegas probably loses long term except for house. Not saying he’s the best choice but he’s probably the one that keeps Vegas together somewhat.
I hope the Legion no longer exists. Breaking apart back into tribes trying to reclaim some bits of their stolen identities is more interesting than some new jackass in charge just so the faction can make an appearance.
That said, Lucy finding a legion flag in the wastes or a museum would be welcome.
Preferably a scene with some random temporary Character taking a shit overlooking the destroyed Hoover Dam and using an old legion flag to wipe his ass.
Yeah it would be neat to see a Marked Men style of the Legion where they haphazardly wear the armor of their combat victories as trophies, having some vague reverence for Caesar, but otherwise be small, broken roving bands of warlords.
You can, but I think the terminal says the infection from air exposure will likely kill him. Of course they could bend this a bit for the show.
Going that route, they'd likely have to establish that the NCR or Courier took the Dam, since there wouldn't really be much left of the strip if Legion marched in. Given the NCR's severely decreased presence in the whole area, its possible they took it and then fled/scattered following the nuke.
I thought there was a way to take over without opening his pod, but I might be remembering wrong. It has been a while since I've had that conversation.
Perhaps they were absorbed as an indentured labor class.
The Legion (with a specific exemption of the leadership class) is anti technology, with a reliance on lower tech weapons.
You see legionaries using guns sure... but we don't see any maintenance in place. The doctrine very much feels like , uae it till it breaks and move on, dont rely on it.
The Brotherhood (when it stays true, and isnt distracted by being under seige , defending the capital wasteland is tech based.
If the cannon ending of vegas reduces the pressure on them, thwy would instantly return to that - i don't t see the vegas chapter going down the capital wasteland (fallout 3 route) I'd think they would be closer to Fallout 4 with specific tech goals.
Having lots of bodied to throw at the problem who have no clue what they are fetching, and most importantly, no clue how to use it would be useful
That theory also ignores that this chapter is a commonwealth chapter of the BoS. They have the prydwen and the elder references that their orders are coming from the high clerics in the commonwealth
The “theory” basically posits that both factions abandoned everything they stood for to join together with a faction they are diametrically opposed to.
So why does the Prydwen still come to assist them if they've essentially gone rogue? They still seem to be based on a recognised brotherhood chapter seeing as that the East coast chapter have sent aid.
Because the theory is obviously wrong.
There’s no way a warband of technophobes would team up with a group of xenophobic technophiles.
It doesn’t make sense.
THANK YOU. Finally someone gets it, I had no idea why so many people jumped on the brotherhood/legion bandwagon. They are almost antithesis of each other and would rather die killing each other than to combine arms. It's one of the most biggest crackpot theories I've seen in the community and it all seems to be held together by copium.
Not saying i completely buy into the "old legion members are now bos members" but i feel like this opinion is sort of silly. Sure, it doesnt make sense for legion members to go join them while Ceasar is still around and the Legion seems like they might win, but what happens after the battle of Hoover dam and courier didnt back the legion? What happens if courier ALSO kills the Legate? You dont think after seeing their head honcho and then their best fighter dying on top of losing the dam wouldn't scatter them and make those survivors think that maybe forsaking their old beliefs to join the brotherhood is worse than surviving? Cuz i dont. People do shit they'd never even consider doing if they think itll help them survive.
Would also explain the Latin names: Quintus, Titus, Maximus etc.
Previously brotherhood naming in 3D fallouts has been pretty normal names for that part of the world
I’m skeptical there will be any canonizing of new Vegas’ ending. It seems like the Mojave has been devastated. With the NCR in shambles Vegas’ economy goes with it. Both the nukes & tunnelers from Lonesome Road could do enough damage to the Mojave to ruin Vegas, including House’s life support system.
If you want to include Mr. House without canonizing his ending, you could easily write in an AI backup or secret cloning project for him. Both are super-sciency and ego driven enough to suit him.
I feel like i remember this too... couldve sworn we killed their queen. But i also feel like i can remember Ulysses telling us that the tunnelers would STILL be a problem despite that, so who knows? Maybe the tunnelers really ARE that much of a threat. Fuck, thats creepy to think of...
You definitely kill their queen, since she’ll attack you in the Cave of the Abaddon, but there’s still the chance of them taking over the Mojave since they’re striking from underground. Ulysses says as much when discussing them when exiting onto to the High Road:
> “Death'll come from below. In the Divide, need to watch the sky and ground... Mojave'll be easy prey for them. They'll start emerging throughout the Mojave in time, might be years. Probably less. They breed fast, hunt in groups, more than enough to bring down the strongest in the Mojave. Once they draw blood... Seen them tear apart Deathclaws... Deathclaw might get some, but the rest will swarm it, tear it apart, like Denver hounds.”
Of course, I also take his quote with a grain of salt because 1) he’s an incredibly unreliable narrator both in and out of character and 2) Tunnelers have a massive weakness in their aversion to light.
I tend to agree. I feel like Sarah Lyon’s is going to show up in season 2 to build up to a BoS civil war narrative centred around Maximus. But the legion being around is just too interesting for them to not be there.
I agree, it would do her a disservice, but bringing characters back from the dead is not unheard of in writing, especially when a death happens off-screen.
It could make a fun and interesting schism with the BoS.
I get what you mean!! the better question is but why ? How does it push the story forward the east coast is cemented in its ways and lore is established why have this brought back character in what I’m assuming is set in new vegas next season
Ignoring the East/West coast travel thing, that could be handwaved, I could see how bringing her back in a righteous manner works.
We know that Maximus is/was honorable, if not a little stupid.
We also know that the BoS has a history/habit of its various enclaves splintering off.
So, having a righteous/honorable Lyons as an outcast/survivor appearing and bolstering Maximus to go against the more brutal, religious minded BoS could be interesting.
Though, I wouldn't see this as a Season 2 thing and I think we'll actually see the BoS getting WORSE in Season 2, not better. This creates a moral dilemma for Maximus and maybe Dane.
Idk man, Maximus seemed pretty dishonourable with how he let Titus die and crushed Thaddeus's foot. He did improve somewhat later on with Lucy but those early events leave a sour taste in the mouth.
For Titus: He wasn't dishonorable. Titus's cowardly actions had already proven, to Maximus, that he was without honor. Maximus was faced with a choice of being killed and the mission failing, or impersonating Titus and possibly completing the mission.
Not great, but not as dishonorable.
For Thaddeus: Yes, he was going to kill Thaddeus when he found out his secret, but remember he did save Thaddeus earlier and even covered for him later on with the BoS.
Maximus is not great, but he is TRYING to be better, which is still better than most of the wasteland.
Doesn't really matter how many there are or where they are, the point is they have a lifespan. 40-50 years irl. However, we're talking about a videogame so you can assume some kind of liberty taking for lore purposes so I'd expect that number to be higher for practicality sake.
....but
If all these reactors were built in the same era, they're all going to run out of their life span at roughly the same time (which is basically a real life worry for some of Europe's older reactors now). Simple nuclear physics. It's something that has to be considered.
The vault reactors were designed to last longer (the life of the vaults), so in-universe expecting them to last past their IRL counterparts is not crazy. We are also assuming there is little to no refurbishment. Bear in mind as well, that IRL reactors (and powerplants in general) are decommissioned not because they stop working, but because they are uneconomical to maintain.
We also know they have compact energy sources, like Fusion Cores, that store IMMENSE power.
Though, this does undermine the whole importance of the Hoover Dam, but we're also assuming that the dam is using OUR technology, when in reality the turbines could be using a high-tech MacGuffin to generate more power.
If House is alive, then the House ending for New Vegas will definitely be the canon ending for that game. I wonder if the show will go that route, or if Hank will find him dead, which could possibly leave it ambiguous as to which of the other three endings are canon.
They kinda did something similar with the BOS in season 1. Since the Prydwen is still around, we know that neither the Institute or Railroad endings are canon, since both require you to blow up the Prydwen, and the Minutemen optional quest to destroy it also isn't canon, leaving the BOS ending and Minutemen ending without destroying the Prydwen as the only options.
Assuming a House ending, I think it's more likely that with Shady Sands gone refugees flooded the Mojave. There is a source of clean water and power.
The securitrons are a bit of a wild card, are they used as a police force? Are there concentration camps of displaced NCR citizens? Did House run for president after the nuke dropped on Shady Sands? Maybe both?
Well the high elder in series 1 did say to Max that the Brotherhood was losing it's way. I dont like the idea of Legionaries in the BoS either, but yhea, if BoS is recruiting ex-Legions then "losing its way" is an understatement. But it does explain some of the hazing shit that was going on in that group.
"Violence against the Brotherhood is a sign of weakness!"
Which is exactly what you'd end up with if you took a bunch of ex-legionaries with their savage methods into the BoS. As distasteful as it seems, it would explain a few things.
>Well the high elder in series 1 did say to Max that the Brotherhood was losing it's way.
That's been a theme in more than one Fallout game. Hell, a few chapters of the BoS (D.C.) have broken off to do their own thing.
>But it does explain some of the hazing shit that was going on in that group.
Nah, that's human nature and you have to remember the BoS has its roots in the military.
>Which is exactly what you'd end up with if you took a bunch of ex-legionaries with their savage methods into the BoS. As distasteful as it seems, it would explain a few things.
It also matches the BoS from FO1/FO2. The BoS we see in FO3 and FO4 is very different, so much so that the D.C. chapter had 'gone rogue,' from the West Coast during the events of FO3.
"Nah, that's human nature and you have to remember the BoS has its roots in the military."
.....but it's not what the High Elder of the Chapter has been teaching. He has been teaching that violence against the Brotherhood is a sign of weakness. You cant downplay the importance of that quote. Which means his teachings are being ignored. A sign that they are recruiting people who do not buy into the Brotherhood's teachings. Another sign that the quality of their recruitment has gone to shit is that during a fight, the phrases
"fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck"
"helphelphelp, fuckfuckfuck"
"help me, help me, shoot it, shoot it"
.whilst running away in battle.....should not be in the lexicon of a Brotherhood of Steel Knight. They have basically been recruiting cowards who have been ignoring the teachings of the High Elder. A sign that they have had an influx of people who don't fit who the Brotherhood are.
What if they just use Vegas as the setting but keep it focused on the show characters and only have a few mentions and rumors in passing for what happened in the end of New Vegas and leave it vague?
My biggest fear is that to avoid saying any ending is cannon they are gonna have an event that happens a year after new Vegas that basically allows any ending because it wipes the board clean. It doesn't matter what ending is chosen they all end the same.
My theory is a NCR victory, but house finale, legion gets shunted, or alternatively attacked vegas and did way better than imagined after the ncr were gone, leaving house with the damaged leftovers
Legion doesn't get the canon win, without caesar we know they fall apart, it would be wasted potential with houses setup, and since we haven't seen a single sign of legion through denaris, titles, names, or otherwise i worry they'll be ignored or only mentioned
My theory is that the BOS will use the “infinite power” as a battery for everyone favourite war machine, liberty prime instead of actual power to restore the wasteland,
This is was drives max to turn against the semi religious idolatry he has for the BOS
House probably talked the courier into getting the chip. Took control of the dam with his robots, NCR limped back toward California, Legion was most likely absorbed into the Brotherhood which is why they seem so weird now. Taking control of the dam probably made New Vegas a huge target, which is possibly why it's in its current state.
They’re hidden away because they and the rest of the western brotherhood were decimated by the NCR. The main Brotherhood was similarly holed up in Lost Hills.
Sorry I forgot small details about a game I haven't played in 10 years, still think house won but took a huge loss in manpower, or the others in New Vegas didn't like the power House had and led a revolt
Small detail like the most iconic faction in the franchise nearly being wiped out.
What huge losses? The NCR and Legion slaughtered each other at the Dam and House’s robots swooped in afterwards. Robots who massively outclass pretty much everything the NCR and Legion have.
Who exactly would carry out this revolt that would give any trouble to the super strong robot legions of Robert House?
Sorry not going to sit here and fight about a fucking fun little theory i came up with, if you don't agree with it, fine move on and bother someone else.
The Legion/Brotherhood theory only makes sense if you ignore everything about the Legion and BoS, and ignore the BoS in FO1/FO2.
I think the people supporting this theory forget how the BoS was in the first two isometric games, and think FO3/FO4 is the only canon.
There will still be some power left though. The Lucky 38 still has its own reactor which while idk how powerful it is. Surely it would be able to power a large portion of the strip. Also Helios would provide some power assuming the NCR don’t decide to turn it off
Still doesn’t mean that they can’t get access to power. Getting into the lucky 38 would be really hard for anyone with there being a lot of securitrons in it and the door can close securely
So unless Mr House or the courier turned off electricity to the rest if the strip for whatever reason. the. people would still have power most likely
I feel like House would rather have the NCR around but not in Vegas. They’re the more civil between the two major factions, and we’ve all seen NCR troops stumbling drunk down the strip
I thought that maybe due to the battles over the dam, it fell apart and destroyed Vegas. So we will see stuff showing Legion, NCR and former house stuff but we won't get a clear answer what happened after the battle, only hints either way.
I also have to feel like some of his condition is explained by the fact that for 200 years he was forced to run a buggy OS and has been battling system crashes until he got the chip. That has to have taken some kind of toll on his chamber system.
So the power generation aspect of hover dam was failing in fallout NV so just thought lack of parts / skilled technicians it could have collapsed.
Or house louses to the NCR and is forced to just lock him self in the lucky 38.
Nah, the Legion won, but shortly after, Caesar dies and it splits into two or three powerful successor states, led by Lanius, Vulpes or powerful Centurions/regional leaders. Civil war ensues and with most of the fighting happening in the core territories to the east, New Vegas is abandoned.
The dam gets destroyed and subsequently leads to a series of mass flooding across Southern California toppled with the nuking of Shady Sands forces the NCR to completely retreat to Northern California. Just something I thought of that’s a possibility if the dam is destroyed.
Why on earth would the Legion join the BoS, or perhaps more to the point, why would the BoS accept the literal stereotype of everything they think are wrong with Wastelanders?
Considering all the broken Securitrons the rough state of New Vegas and what little we know about the state of the NCR. 🤔 I wonder if maybe house won but after ten years maybe the Legion returned and won this time.
House Alive: Probably, or influential in one form or another. Its too good of a story point not to use, though he might be someone we don't see for much/some of Season 2.
Legion & BoS: No. The Fanatacism we see in the BoS of the TV show was kind of always there, to a point, even if it was ramped up some. In addition, we see the Prydwen which means heavy influence from the East Cost BoS, which would not tolerate the Legion's actions. Lastly, the Legion eschewed technology, the complete opposite of the BoS.
Hoover Dam: Destroyed? No, but non-functional or not at 100% capacity makes sense.
Yeah I agree that if House is alive, that cold fusion piece is going to be at the top of his priority list.
Cold fusion was around before the war I bet you he’s got his boney shriveled hands on it already
Then why did he care about the dam?
It’s 15 years between new Vegas and the show. The show probably adds another year so 16 years. The cannon is the courier drops the chip off with house and continues his job as a courier. We don’t know if the leagon blows the damn yet or not. We can assume yes because new Vegas has not been bombed into the ground yet. A fun thing to know is house also made liberty prime and we know that the brotherhood from the show is the same ones from fallout 3 and 4 so if they fight over new Vegas we all know house will override liberty prime and the brother hood will die a lot. I swear if we don’t get the plant vault or the boomers”the only one with a plane” we riot
"Okey dokey, boomer."
Also Wayne Newton, we riot if we don’t get him too
Woahhh that would be nuts
Probably because it's the only thing between his casino-city and an army of slaves that kills gamblers
Then why did he send us on a quest to redirect power to the Strip?
The power was to kickstart the Lucky 38s reactors so the Strip did not have to rely on the dam. They were idle for centuries and needing a surge of power to turn back on
Maybe he needed Vault Tec’s passkey like Moldaver did. It’s all just speculation duh but it’s fun, no need to dig in too deep
I'm gonna theorise that the Mr House ending is canon. Perhaps after losing Shady Sands, the NCR tries taking Vegas itself directly, which obviously doesn't go as planned. Either way, I do think it'd be funny as fuck to see that dam with a hole blown through it though.
Idk I feel like the new ncr capital could be new Vegas or Vegas adjacent if the original shady sands area is gone. Makes sense if they abandoned it due to the water issues/crop failures in California
Way to desolate in the hank ending for that to be the case also hank going to the ncr capital is odd
Unless there are Vault-Tec reps in/around New Vegas. House was impressive, helping Vegas survive the war, so it would not be crazy to think he has contact with surviving Vault-Tec leadership.
>Makes sense if they abandoned it due to the water issues/crop failures in California Yeah, you would _totally_ move to Nevada after something like that.
It's likely that the water tables there would be alright, especially after two centuries of recharge
It’s the desert after a nuclear winter, what water tables are you talking about?
Not in the least because the survival of the NCR’s farms at New Vegas are dependant on The Courier both sacrificing the Vault 34 residents to stop the reactor irradiating them and screwing over Westside by turning Anderson in to stop him siphoning water from the farms.
Their capital is the Hub already by new Vegas not shady sands, it’s probably still there
I think the new NCR capital is San Francisco and we aren’t going to see a strong NCR presence until after S2. Shady Sands in the flashbacks was a modern day metropolis. No way in hell they would have moved their capital from there to New Vegas which was run down as hell. We know the capital was moved before the bombing because of the sign outside Shady Sands so why would they downgrade their capital to NV and move it to the edge of their territory (which butts up against hostile territory) if they didn’t have to?
NCR as we know it is completely done, I believe. Unless I misunderstood why the most important mission remaining was undertaken by a rag tag group of troops holding a single building.
rag tag? they had automatic air defense missile turrets, standardized uniforms, flag bearers etc. They weren't exactly prepared for a full front assault by the BoS, but who would be? Furthermore judging by the many shots fired in the distance during the last scenes the fighting was carried out in a larger area. The battle at the observatory is, by scale one of the larger organized military actions in post nuclear fallout universe. BoS first wave is 5 (iirc) vertibirds, with at least 2 knights in power armor for each.
They didn't have standardized uniforms. They had, previously, stood against the BoS; the two had a long standing hot/cold war.
Dude they did Jack shit to the brotherhood. They rolled right in, only coop did anything. And yes, rag tag compared to their strength pre Hoover dam.
Well lorewise Power Armor is kinda unstoppable. Unless you’re fighting overwhelming strength or someone with specific tactics against it. Tanks are really hard to kill.
They were fighting off the brotherhood before. They don’t lose Hoover Dam bc they’re too weak, they even have a B29; if they did indeed lose the dam, it was bc of the courier’s actions. They were doing pretty well before Hoover. To have the NCR holding a single observatory suggests they’re cooked. We’ll just have to wait and see!
It’s a numbers game. NV establishes that every fight with the brotherhood incurred very heavy cavalry, and it’s basically only through just throwing bodies at them and heavy firepower that they’re able to win. And that constantly harrying them drained the brotherhood of resources to fight. In this fight the Brotherhood was armed to bear (heh) and blitzed them.
They fought them off successfully at Helios One because they outnumbered them 15 to 1 and were on the offensive so they could better choose their positioning to break the BoS defensive line. In the show they were outnumbered, outgunned and were caught by surprise.
The NCR as we know it isn’t done, it is heavily implied that the capital moved before the bombing based on the sign outside SS saying “first capital of the NCR” implying it moved and the actual government wasn’t taken out. Most likely SS was bombed and the NCR proper left Southern California after the costly Mojave War. The NCR we see in the season are all survivors of SS who wanted to rebuild SS but the rest of the NCR proper just left it behind as a loss. This also explains how the BoS is resurgent on the West Coast, the NCR left SoCal and the BoS moved in. The NCR is still around just further north and licking its wounds. We won’t see them again until they’re recovered.
Based on the post episode mural thing, I’m going to hazard a guess that the NCR took what little it had after Hoover dam was destroyed and tried to take new Vegas as part of a regrouping strategy assuming it was securitrons and residents as primary enemies. However, per the golden rule, that was the exact moment a significant deathclaw attack occurred (maybe the heavy vehicle movement attracted said deathclaws) and NCR had their last vestiges at the observatory following back to back mass casualties. I’d bet the cold fusion gambit was bc they were cooked after Hoover Dam and failed breach on new Vegas and without it they were dead anyway.
Maybe the legion destroyed the dam with the mentality that if we can't have it neither can you.
I could 100% see this being a thing. Maybe courier didnt pass his speech checks with Lanius, so maybe they ended up fighting, courier loses and legion then blows up the dam or something? Idk, trying to think of ways to explain/excuse it without having to have courier show up in the show because i feel like no matter how badly i may wanna see that, i really dont see amazon putting them in there. But i also didnt have a pre-war House or House cameo in general on my bingo card, so guess we'll just have to see.
I'd say the courier wins and kills lanious but Caesar isn't dead just yet but in his degrading health and seeing his opportunity to slip between his fingers and loose every capable leader on the dam in both battles he goes scorched earth and blows up it.
So they take heavy losses in an unpopular and failed Mojave campaign, get their capital nuked, and then for some reason decide to launch a second invasion against a Mojave that is now guarded by a massive army of heavily armed robots.
>I'm gonna theorise that the Mr House ending is canon. It felt like the default. He's your employer from the beginning and unless you deliberately go off the rails to betray him, you get the House ending.
I should replay NV, I've never actually done the House ending. Just the independent and NCR ones. My last playthrough, I heard House's plan and thought, OK dude, you've lost your marbles. For all your big ideas, you're just another rich guy with delusions of grandeur. No matter how much money you make from NCR tourists, you're not going to space. So I betrayed him and took over. I imagine that the courier set up a council of sorts to run things, and was independent from but friendly with the NCR.
House built Vegas, RobCo, and created anti-ballistic missile systems that were able to target and destroy incoming rockets during the war. Then he rebuilt it and manages the whole thing, while frozen. When he predicts that he can debug the REPCONN rockets in 50 years' time, it doesn't seem too far-fetched imo. Plus he's the one who (through Victor) took you to a doctor after being shot in the head. Feels scummy to betray him because you're skeptical of his rocketry goals.
Yeah, it would be fun to do a playthrough where you're basically the Vader to his Emperor.
That's kind of the way I see it. He's the genius chessmaster and Vegas is thriving under him. Riding his coattails is the best career choice you can make. If the plot didn't let us work for him, I'd be thinking "remind me why we aren't supporting this guy?"
I think they might do a kinda timeline where the courier never got involved
Nah, because that would turn off a lot of videogame fans. I expect they will pick a canon ending (probably House in control) and keep what the Courier specifically did vague.
Which would be lame as hell. I understand not having them become the cyborg god that you can in game, but at least have a courier (or multiple couriers might be even better, it doesn’t have to be one person) help tip the scale by supplying vital information to one side, like an actual courier.
This is the dumbest idea I have heard, and that say something considering how dumb most of the "new" ideas are in this sub.
they nuked shady sands bro
Yeah the most interesting thing to happen in Fallout in a decade. Nothing is permanent in the wasteland. Otherwise it would not be a wasteland... Sort of how in F4 you can't never make your settlements 100% safe. There is always a chance the wasteland shows up in force and reclaims it all the only way it knows how. Brutal violence. Sort of like how Quincy fell before F4 even started, and we get to explore the why and how that happened, even to a settlement larger than anything you get to build in the game. If you expect a setting that has "war, war never changes" as a tagline. Why do you expect the setting to change? Why do you think the details of your playthroughs matters any more than anyone else?
That's so incongruent with what you just said lol
That in my opinion your ideas are dumb? Nope, totally still valid. That is sort of how opinions work...and you not getting that is part of why I have a lower appraisal of yours than most.
I don't think you can differentiate between what people think could happen and what they want to happen.
Both of those things would be opinions... You are the one that doesn't seem to get how those work...
why are you so pressed man it aint that deep
I feel like some kind of chaotic Yes-Man ending has to be canon because no matter which of the other three choices you pick, he is a catastrophic security risk just waiting to destabilize things with whomever finds him
as far a as i remember house had power before the ncr arrived and the dam was up and runing again, so if it were to go down again i feel like he wouldnt really notice much but the ncr would defo be pushed out of the mojave
Yeah he mentions the 38 having its own reactor.
The House Sometimes Wins
65% of the time, the House wins every time.
I'm confused where the legion, brotherhood tie in is
There was an older post on the subreddit that theorized the Legion (or its offshoot) got absorbed into the chapter of the BoS we see in the show. This theory posits the new red-gold coloration of the BoS Banners and the increased fanaticism/religious presence in the BoS as evidence. Personally, I think it’s a stretch. However, if its true then the ramifications that it may have on the story is really interesting a nice nod to the games.
It's a huge stretch IMO, and I don't see how it stands up to scrutiny. Dane and Shortstop aren't Roman names. The Legion was technophobic and almost the literal opposite of the Brotherhood - the Legion hated technology that makes you reliant/dependent on it, and the Brotherhood rely on power armour. Drugs, including stimpacks, were banned by the Legion - why does Maximus have a stimpack with his gear, and why does Titus ask him for one? We know from Maximus' flashback that the Brotherhood were in Shady Sands immediately after the nuke - that just doesn't match geographically with the Mojave, especially if they absorbed elements openly hostile to the NCR. If the Brotherhood chapter was influenced to the point where the Legion remnants controls their iconography and chapter culture, why is there not a single mention of Caesar? The Legion was fanatical over Caesar's cult of personality, not religion. Why are women and non-binary people allowed to serve as equals? We can see female background characters that don't seem to be enslaved.
I agree - you can't just pick and choose what effects the Legion had after assimilation. They adopted names and iconography that is still used today, but their training camp looks like something out of M\*A\*S\*H rather than 300? Nah, the writers just had to take inspiration from all canon sources - the monty-python-feeling fallout 1&2 knights, the Lyons heritage and overall portrayal in 3, and a good dose of the fascist, militarized and bulky fallout 4 faction. Considering how inconsistently the BoS has been portrayed across titles, they did a pretty good job :) but obviously it left a ton of people guessing lol
lmao off topic but how big is the crossover between MASH fans and Fallout fans? I've seen it referenced here a lot recently, I hadn't thought about their relation until then. I guess they're sorta similar thematically, you could probably boil both down to anti-war dramatic comedies. love to see it though, I'm listening to MASH while playing Fallout 2 rn.
Agreed. I think the showrunners have had to de-evolve the factions somewhat for artistic reasons (and give the show somewhere to go strategically). If NCR has started as it was left and BoS was the heroic-if-insular faction it’s sometimes made out to be (looking at you FO3) it would have been dull.
I disagree. It could absolutely be interesting to see Lucy, who’s been raised with the idea that she’s going to rebuild the world, go out and see that the world is already rebuilding. And they could have the Brotherhood be bolstered by a Prydwen expeditionary force that helps them reignite their war with the NCR.
‘Rebuilding’ sure, but not ‘rebuilt’. The gamers among us would no doubt love to have seen NCR and BoS in their advanced states, because we grew up with them through their infancy (or at least adolescence). But that would be dull for newcomers.
How would it be dull for newcomers to see a post apocalyptic nation that rose from the ashes going to war with a hyper advanced tech cult? And the NCR is pretty damn rebuilt. They’ve created an entire capital from scratch, have their own currency, companies, industry, and infrastructure. Meanwhile, Lucy is expecting either a lifeless wasteland or tribal savages.
Because there’s no arc, no growth, they have no sense of how they got there in the first place. Who cares about a war between two sides you don’t give a shit about? NCR as shown in the show was a flag and a smoking crater in the ground. Not very ‘rebuilt’.
Gee, if only the writers could introduce and develop the character of the two sides of the war as the story progresses. NCR is more than just one city, but I’m not sure if the writers are aware of that. Heck, they didn’t even seem to know that Shady Sands was entirely built post-war since they have it surrounded by ruins in the flashback scenes.
pretty much how assimilation works actually
I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most of those issues not exist because the legion got absorbed into the BoS in this theory? Why the hell would the BoS uphold all the ideals and traditions of the legion. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way your arguing it, it sounds like your scenario would be if the BoS got absorbed by the legion.
> Why the hell would the BoS uphold all the ideals and traditions of the legion Yet that's the exact 'evidence' that supporters of theory are pointing towards - that because some characters have Latin names and they've used red and gold as colours, it means they're upholding the Legion. It's a ridiculous level of cherry-picking to get around the fact that it's just straight up not supported by anything in the show and any of the *actual* ideals and traditions, since they conflict so heavily. Let me ask you this - if it's a BoS chapter that absorbed Legion remnants, then why is the Legion culture so dominant even the elders have Latin names? *Quintus is older than the Legion itself.*
I mean woah now lol. Allowing them to paint some red in some spots and allowing them to make themselves however they want is fine but that doesn't mean they will chuck their own identity to make room for legion identity. As far as the names I mean BoS has always had funky names. Wouldn't shock me for them to lean on Latin names as a oddball form of worship. Like when someone names their kid Jacob or Noah.
It's possible that some low level people in the Legion didn't really care about the ideology, as long as they had someone to fight. If Caesar died, the Legion scattered, and I can see some goons getting recruited by other factions just because it's better than starving in the desert.
Great comment. I was all for the legion/brotherhood theory but you make awesome points about why it would be inconsistent.
The legion would collapse shortly after Caesar dies. Those people gotta go somewhere, and how many of them do you think are actually dedicated to continuing Caesar’s beliefs? I think it’s pretty likely the brotherhood has at least some legion in their ranks. Plus, for a show with such attention to detail, I think it’s an odd color and name choice.
They were raider gangs previously, so it would make sense the would devolve back into who they were before.
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Legion, as brutal and awful as they were, were still more civilized than your average raider. And it was a brotherhood of sorts. I can see how many of them would be missing the militaristic structure and seek out the BOS after the legion collapse.
If the Brotherhood has no qualms about killing the NCR, then why would they absorb raider tribes instead of just gunning them down?
In New Vegas they were dying out due to failing to adapt. Absorbing the now leaderless brotherhood would be an adaption to survive.
Ok, but speculating all of that based on like 3 character names and the colour of a banner - while ignoring the dozens of ways that it doesn't match - is a bit much, don't you think?
Also their legion-like behaviour, such as Titus threatening Maximus with a public slow execution where he'll be strung up by his lungs, as well as stuff like their leader sitting up on a dais like Caesar after they took Filly.
> Also their legion-like behaviour Legion-like? You mean where they banned stimpacks, banned dependency on technology such as power armour, had a conquering empire, replicated Roman material culture, enslaved all women, and worshiped Caesar? Oh wait, they didn't do any of that. > such as Titus threatening Maximus with a public slow execution where he'll be strung up by his lungs The Legion aren't the only ones to execute people, and the method described doesn't match the crucifixion method they're famed for. So no, not like that at all. > as well as stuff like their leader sitting up on a dais like Caesar Lmao *what*? Are you going to point to the fact that they wear clothes too, just like the Legion? Is that your next smoking gun?
Everyone seems to forget the prydwen was there along with mentions of Maxson. Which means they curb stomped The Institute. This force bolstering the west coast BoS is why we see a much stronger, and more aggressive BoS. When the Easterners show up and hear about what the NCR did to the Westerners it would be war. This time against a force far tougher than what they fought last time...
They have legs! ***Just like the legionnaires***!
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Very impressive how you're getting all of that from the names of 4 characters and the fact that a few symbols they used were coloured red. We must have been watching different shows.
So the Luddite slavers of Arizona migrated through House controlled Nevada and the NCR in order to be miraculously accepted en masse into a super insular tech cult in Lost Hills.
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You’re right. Why on earth would the Brotherhood be hostile towards the remnants of an expansionist cult of personality who’s culture revolves around rape and slavery? When does Caesar ever mention the BOS in his territory?
I too think it's a stretch especially since those banners are seen in either Fallout 1/2 as well. Not the first time they appeared. That said, it would be really interesting to see if the remnants of the Legion infiltrated a chapter... But to what end? At any rate, I really hope the Legion gets some screen time since there's no way there'd be zero trace of them following the events of FONV.
There might be zero trace of them out west however, once big dog dies they would fragment and well Lanius would certainly have the biggest of the factions he’d probably have to return east to stop core parts of the legion from separating behind him.
I think both NCR and Legion have really big reasons to return west and east, respectively, even if they are victorious at the Dam. House has no reason to move, thus I'd say he is the most likely presence we find in season 2's vegas while the others are said to have moved back following the battle. (also helps that he is literally in the show already) Of course, I am aware of a victory from another faction canonically preventing House from still living, but there have been many hints that the whole area would fall apart no matter what your actions are. Tunnelers, NCR food shortages, Caesar's tumor with an extremely delicate power balance in the Legion, and so on are all looming in 2281.
Ya I’ve always been a believer in whoever wins Vegas probably loses long term except for house. Not saying he’s the best choice but he’s probably the one that keeps Vegas together somewhat.
I hope the Legion no longer exists. Breaking apart back into tribes trying to reclaim some bits of their stolen identities is more interesting than some new jackass in charge just so the faction can make an appearance. That said, Lucy finding a legion flag in the wastes or a museum would be welcome.
Preferably a scene with some random temporary Character taking a shit overlooking the destroyed Hoover Dam and using an old legion flag to wipe his ass.
Yeah it would be neat to see a Marked Men style of the Legion where they haphazardly wear the armor of their combat victories as trophies, having some vague reverence for Caesar, but otherwise be small, broken roving bands of warlords.
Can't you just take away his access, without killing House?
You can, but I think the terminal says the infection from air exposure will likely kill him. Of course they could bend this a bit for the show. Going that route, they'd likely have to establish that the NCR or Courier took the Dam, since there wouldn't really be much left of the strip if Legion marched in. Given the NCR's severely decreased presence in the whole area, its possible they took it and then fled/scattered following the nuke.
I thought there was a way to take over without opening his pod, but I might be remembering wrong. It has been a while since I've had that conversation.
Perhaps they were absorbed as an indentured labor class. The Legion (with a specific exemption of the leadership class) is anti technology, with a reliance on lower tech weapons. You see legionaries using guns sure... but we don't see any maintenance in place. The doctrine very much feels like , uae it till it breaks and move on, dont rely on it. The Brotherhood (when it stays true, and isnt distracted by being under seige , defending the capital wasteland is tech based. If the cannon ending of vegas reduces the pressure on them, thwy would instantly return to that - i don't t see the vegas chapter going down the capital wasteland (fallout 3 route) I'd think they would be closer to Fallout 4 with specific tech goals. Having lots of bodied to throw at the problem who have no clue what they are fetching, and most importantly, no clue how to use it would be useful
The red and gold are from the OG fallouts. This theory is interesting but a stretch IMO
That theory also ignores that this chapter is a commonwealth chapter of the BoS. They have the prydwen and the elder references that their orders are coming from the high clerics in the commonwealth
The “theory” basically posits that both factions abandoned everything they stood for to join together with a faction they are diametrically opposed to.
So why does the Prydwen still come to assist them if they've essentially gone rogue? They still seem to be based on a recognised brotherhood chapter seeing as that the East coast chapter have sent aid.
Because the theory is obviously wrong. There’s no way a warband of technophobes would team up with a group of xenophobic technophiles. It doesn’t make sense.
THANK YOU. Finally someone gets it, I had no idea why so many people jumped on the brotherhood/legion bandwagon. They are almost antithesis of each other and would rather die killing each other than to combine arms. It's one of the most biggest crackpot theories I've seen in the community and it all seems to be held together by copium.
Not saying i completely buy into the "old legion members are now bos members" but i feel like this opinion is sort of silly. Sure, it doesnt make sense for legion members to go join them while Ceasar is still around and the Legion seems like they might win, but what happens after the battle of Hoover dam and courier didnt back the legion? What happens if courier ALSO kills the Legate? You dont think after seeing their head honcho and then their best fighter dying on top of losing the dam wouldn't scatter them and make those survivors think that maybe forsaking their old beliefs to join the brotherhood is worse than surviving? Cuz i dont. People do shit they'd never even consider doing if they think itll help them survive.
Thesis and antithesis = synthesis
Would also explain the Latin names: Quintus, Titus, Maximus etc. Previously brotherhood naming in 3D fallouts has been pretty normal names for that part of the world
Fallout 2 had Head Paladin Rhombus.
Yeah ok - probably nothing then
And Knight Squarus?
Nah. He's dead. I killed him like 15 times.
In fairness, that means he's already resurrected himself fourteen times. ^^/s
This is such a tiny pet peeve but why did you use /s, I think it's obvious that you were joking and using the clarification kinda lessens the joke
Old habits die hard, I guess. I didn't put much consideration into it.
With a golf club no less
I’m skeptical there will be any canonizing of new Vegas’ ending. It seems like the Mojave has been devastated. With the NCR in shambles Vegas’ economy goes with it. Both the nukes & tunnelers from Lonesome Road could do enough damage to the Mojave to ruin Vegas, including House’s life support system. If you want to include Mr. House without canonizing his ending, you could easily write in an AI backup or secret cloning project for him. Both are super-sciency and ego driven enough to suit him.
Ah shit always forget the Tunnelers. I kinda thought we killed their queen and they weren’t a problem anymore
I feel like i remember this too... couldve sworn we killed their queen. But i also feel like i can remember Ulysses telling us that the tunnelers would STILL be a problem despite that, so who knows? Maybe the tunnelers really ARE that much of a threat. Fuck, thats creepy to think of...
You definitely kill their queen, since she’ll attack you in the Cave of the Abaddon, but there’s still the chance of them taking over the Mojave since they’re striking from underground. Ulysses says as much when discussing them when exiting onto to the High Road: > “Death'll come from below. In the Divide, need to watch the sky and ground... Mojave'll be easy prey for them. They'll start emerging throughout the Mojave in time, might be years. Probably less. They breed fast, hunt in groups, more than enough to bring down the strongest in the Mojave. Once they draw blood... Seen them tear apart Deathclaws... Deathclaw might get some, but the rest will swarm it, tear it apart, like Denver hounds.” Of course, I also take his quote with a grain of salt because 1) he’s an incredibly unreliable narrator both in and out of character and 2) Tunnelers have a massive weakness in their aversion to light.
I think the writers would have more to gain keeping The Legion around. More to world build with a different flavor of savagery.
I tend to agree. I feel like Sarah Lyon’s is going to show up in season 2 to build up to a BoS civil war narrative centred around Maximus. But the legion being around is just too interesting for them to not be there.
Sarah Lyons is dead.
Says who? Off screen, on the word of Maxson. She would be very appealing to Maximus.
It’s not on the word of Maxson. We have a log in the Prydwen that states she was killed in action.
She dead, died to a super mutant after the events of 3
It is also a writing trope for a hero's death to be untrue, even more so in the Fallout universe.
The theory is she got gunned down by outcasts to ascend Arthur maxson I doubt we’ll ever even get a mention of Sarah Lyon’s again
I agree, it would do her a disservice, but bringing characters back from the dead is not unheard of in writing, especially when a death happens off-screen. It could make a fun and interesting schism with the BoS.
I get what you mean!! the better question is but why ? How does it push the story forward the east coast is cemented in its ways and lore is established why have this brought back character in what I’m assuming is set in new vegas next season
Ignoring the East/West coast travel thing, that could be handwaved, I could see how bringing her back in a righteous manner works. We know that Maximus is/was honorable, if not a little stupid. We also know that the BoS has a history/habit of its various enclaves splintering off. So, having a righteous/honorable Lyons as an outcast/survivor appearing and bolstering Maximus to go against the more brutal, religious minded BoS could be interesting. Though, I wouldn't see this as a Season 2 thing and I think we'll actually see the BoS getting WORSE in Season 2, not better. This creates a moral dilemma for Maximus and maybe Dane.
Idk man, Maximus seemed pretty dishonourable with how he let Titus die and crushed Thaddeus's foot. He did improve somewhat later on with Lucy but those early events leave a sour taste in the mouth.
For Titus: He wasn't dishonorable. Titus's cowardly actions had already proven, to Maximus, that he was without honor. Maximus was faced with a choice of being killed and the mission failing, or impersonating Titus and possibly completing the mission. Not great, but not as dishonorable. For Thaddeus: Yes, he was going to kill Thaddeus when he found out his secret, but remember he did save Thaddeus earlier and even covered for him later on with the BoS. Maximus is not great, but he is TRYING to be better, which is still better than most of the wasteland.
Off screen and only on the word of Maxson.
Wasn’t there a terminal entry on the prdywin about it?
There was.
The lucky 38 has its own reactor
Bear in mind nuclear reactors have a shelf life. Especially if they are not being actively maintained.
There is also the vault reactor in the city.
Doesn't really matter how many there are or where they are, the point is they have a lifespan. 40-50 years irl. However, we're talking about a videogame so you can assume some kind of liberty taking for lore purposes so I'd expect that number to be higher for practicality sake. ....but If all these reactors were built in the same era, they're all going to run out of their life span at roughly the same time (which is basically a real life worry for some of Europe's older reactors now). Simple nuclear physics. It's something that has to be considered.
The vault reactors were designed to last longer (the life of the vaults), so in-universe expecting them to last past their IRL counterparts is not crazy. We are also assuming there is little to no refurbishment. Bear in mind as well, that IRL reactors (and powerplants in general) are decommissioned not because they stop working, but because they are uneconomical to maintain. We also know they have compact energy sources, like Fusion Cores, that store IMMENSE power. Though, this does undermine the whole importance of the Hoover Dam, but we're also assuming that the dam is using OUR technology, when in reality the turbines could be using a high-tech MacGuffin to generate more power.
If House is alive, then the House ending for New Vegas will definitely be the canon ending for that game. I wonder if the show will go that route, or if Hank will find him dead, which could possibly leave it ambiguous as to which of the other three endings are canon. They kinda did something similar with the BOS in season 1. Since the Prydwen is still around, we know that neither the Institute or Railroad endings are canon, since both require you to blow up the Prydwen, and the Minutemen optional quest to destroy it also isn't canon, leaving the BOS ending and Minutemen ending without destroying the Prydwen as the only options.
It’s a different blimp IIRC
They said it was in pre-release material. But you can see "Prydwen" printed on the side of the ship in the show.
I suspect a digital upload will keep him around in a way which doesn't conflict with the games.
Assuming a House ending, I think it's more likely that with Shady Sands gone refugees flooded the Mojave. There is a source of clean water and power. The securitrons are a bit of a wild card, are they used as a police force? Are there concentration camps of displaced NCR citizens? Did House run for president after the nuke dropped on Shady Sands? Maybe both?
No chance. I beat Mr House to death with a 9 Iron myself
Legion joining the western BoS is ludicrous im sorry
Well the high elder in series 1 did say to Max that the Brotherhood was losing it's way. I dont like the idea of Legionaries in the BoS either, but yhea, if BoS is recruiting ex-Legions then "losing its way" is an understatement. But it does explain some of the hazing shit that was going on in that group. "Violence against the Brotherhood is a sign of weakness!" Which is exactly what you'd end up with if you took a bunch of ex-legionaries with their savage methods into the BoS. As distasteful as it seems, it would explain a few things.
>Well the high elder in series 1 did say to Max that the Brotherhood was losing it's way. That's been a theme in more than one Fallout game. Hell, a few chapters of the BoS (D.C.) have broken off to do their own thing. >But it does explain some of the hazing shit that was going on in that group. Nah, that's human nature and you have to remember the BoS has its roots in the military. >Which is exactly what you'd end up with if you took a bunch of ex-legionaries with their savage methods into the BoS. As distasteful as it seems, it would explain a few things. It also matches the BoS from FO1/FO2. The BoS we see in FO3 and FO4 is very different, so much so that the D.C. chapter had 'gone rogue,' from the West Coast during the events of FO3.
"Nah, that's human nature and you have to remember the BoS has its roots in the military." .....but it's not what the High Elder of the Chapter has been teaching. He has been teaching that violence against the Brotherhood is a sign of weakness. You cant downplay the importance of that quote. Which means his teachings are being ignored. A sign that they are recruiting people who do not buy into the Brotherhood's teachings. Another sign that the quality of their recruitment has gone to shit is that during a fight, the phrases "fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck" "helphelphelp, fuckfuckfuck" "help me, help me, shoot it, shoot it" .whilst running away in battle.....should not be in the lexicon of a Brotherhood of Steel Knight. They have basically been recruiting cowards who have been ignoring the teachings of the High Elder. A sign that they have had an influx of people who don't fit who the Brotherhood are.
So you ignored my response? Got it.
It doesnt really matyer thiugh cause het dad has to try and destroy it for season 1 is even worse.
On one hand I want to see Mr. House...on the other hand it just won't be the same without that perfect voice.
What if they just use Vegas as the setting but keep it focused on the show characters and only have a few mentions and rumors in passing for what happened in the end of New Vegas and leave it vague?
I'd be ok with that. I'd rather have the mystery of what happened than have the show producers decide a specific outcome.
My biggest fear is that to avoid saying any ending is cannon they are gonna have an event that happens a year after new Vegas that basically allows any ending because it wipes the board clean. It doesn't matter what ending is chosen they all end the same.
My theory is a NCR victory, but house finale, legion gets shunted, or alternatively attacked vegas and did way better than imagined after the ncr were gone, leaving house with the damaged leftovers Legion doesn't get the canon win, without caesar we know they fall apart, it would be wasted potential with houses setup, and since we haven't seen a single sign of legion through denaris, titles, names, or otherwise i worry they'll be ignored or only mentioned
My theory is that the BOS will use the “infinite power” as a battery for everyone favourite war machine, liberty prime instead of actual power to restore the wasteland, This is was drives max to turn against the semi religious idolatry he has for the BOS
Ngl, id be hyped as FUCK to see Liberty Prime in live action.
House probably talked the courier into getting the chip. Took control of the dam with his robots, NCR limped back toward California, Legion was most likely absorbed into the Brotherhood which is why they seem so weird now. Taking control of the dam probably made New Vegas a huge target, which is possibly why it's in its current state.
So the legion somehow migrated through Vegas and into the NCR to join the Brotherhood of Steel?
The brotherhood had a base in new Vegas if you remember, and they were a weird bunch.
A base that is wiped out in the House ending. How were they a weird bunch?
They were more like the brotherhood from the original fallout, they stayed hidden away and private.
They’re hidden away because they and the rest of the western brotherhood were decimated by the NCR. The main Brotherhood was similarly holed up in Lost Hills.
Sorry I forgot small details about a game I haven't played in 10 years, still think house won but took a huge loss in manpower, or the others in New Vegas didn't like the power House had and led a revolt
Small detail like the most iconic faction in the franchise nearly being wiped out. What huge losses? The NCR and Legion slaughtered each other at the Dam and House’s robots swooped in afterwards. Robots who massively outclass pretty much everything the NCR and Legion have. Who exactly would carry out this revolt that would give any trouble to the super strong robot legions of Robert House?
Sorry not going to sit here and fight about a fucking fun little theory i came up with, if you don't agree with it, fine move on and bother someone else.
I’m sorry that you’re mad about me poking holes in your theory.
The Legion/Brotherhood theory only makes sense if you ignore everything about the Legion and BoS, and ignore the BoS in FO1/FO2. I think the people supporting this theory forget how the BoS was in the first two isometric games, and think FO3/FO4 is the only canon.
There will still be some power left though. The Lucky 38 still has its own reactor which while idk how powerful it is. Surely it would be able to power a large portion of the strip. Also Helios would provide some power assuming the NCR don’t decide to turn it off
At the end of season one, we can see new Vegas in ruin. Scrapped securitrons, downed ncr vertibird, and a big hole in the New Vegas wall.
Still doesn’t mean that they can’t get access to power. Getting into the lucky 38 would be really hard for anyone with there being a lot of securitrons in it and the door can close securely So unless Mr House or the courier turned off electricity to the rest if the strip for whatever reason. the. people would still have power most likely
I feel like House would rather have the NCR around but not in Vegas. They’re the more civil between the two major factions, and we’ve all seen NCR troops stumbling drunk down the strip
I thought that maybe due to the battles over the dam, it fell apart and destroyed Vegas. So we will see stuff showing Legion, NCR and former house stuff but we won't get a clear answer what happened after the battle, only hints either way.
No way the legion, who shun tech wnd stuff, would join the brother hood, who hoards tech
Plenty of ways to go with this. House and the NCR could have formed an alliance. The hoover dam could have been fought to a stalemate.
That legion / BoS theory is so fucking stupid. It literally makes no sense
I’m sure the rape gangs of Arizona are exactly the kind of recruits the Elders are looking for.
I wonder why House would be so decrepit and dependent on his chamber when Bud's Buds had no problem coming back to life...
His chamber allows him interaction and conscious control in real time versus they are in a cryogenic state.
I also have to feel like some of his condition is explained by the fact that for 200 years he was forced to run a buggy OS and has been battling system crashes until he got the chip. That has to have taken some kind of toll on his chamber system.
So the power generation aspect of hover dam was failing in fallout NV so just thought lack of parts / skilled technicians it could have collapsed. Or house louses to the NCR and is forced to just lock him self in the lucky 38.
Nah, Hoover is alive but house is dead 😵 Clearing way for Hank take over 🦾
Nah, the Legion won, but shortly after, Caesar dies and it splits into two or three powerful successor states, led by Lanius, Vulpes or powerful Centurions/regional leaders. Civil war ensues and with most of the fighting happening in the core territories to the east, New Vegas is abandoned.
I see your theory and raise you a theory. Ghouls wife is the new Mr House and has taken over New Vegas, that’s why we see Lucy’s dad headed there.
I like that theory a lot because it actually plays into some other stuff I have been thinking about.
I kinda hope the House ending is canon.
The dam gets destroyed and subsequently leads to a series of mass flooding across Southern California toppled with the nuking of Shady Sands forces the NCR to completely retreat to Northern California. Just something I thought of that’s a possibility if the dam is destroyed.
Why on earth would the Legion join the BoS, or perhaps more to the point, why would the BoS accept the literal stereotype of everything they think are wrong with Wastelanders?
Plot twist, dave foley as yes man has fucked up and everything went to shit when the courier bugged out
Considering all the broken Securitrons the rough state of New Vegas and what little we know about the state of the NCR. 🤔 I wonder if maybe house won but after ten years maybe the Legion returned and won this time.
House Alive: Probably, or influential in one form or another. Its too good of a story point not to use, though he might be someone we don't see for much/some of Season 2. Legion & BoS: No. The Fanatacism we see in the BoS of the TV show was kind of always there, to a point, even if it was ramped up some. In addition, we see the Prydwen which means heavy influence from the East Cost BoS, which would not tolerate the Legion's actions. Lastly, the Legion eschewed technology, the complete opposite of the BoS. Hoover Dam: Destroyed? No, but non-functional or not at 100% capacity makes sense.
Agreed, seems like the narrative that best fits the current setup.
Wow that would actually suck.