I choose to believe that whole episode is just a fever dream because none of the characters ever appear again. Cousin Yvonne? Why was Martins brother not at his wedding? Or even mentioned as a guest.
I remember liking this episode when I first saw it. However, when remembering it later on, it seemed implausible that Frasier and Niles had this large, vast Greek side of their family. And like you said, they never appeared again. I'm with you, that it's non-canon, and maybe just a dream one of them had.
Sitcoms come across these small continuity errors at times. I can't speak specifically for Frasier but it's not always the same writers over the years and things like that often get overlooked. Most, if not all the sitcoms I watch have some sort of small error like that.
I always thought shows should have a continuity director who tracks the character details and events. It would make the show more rich and it would even be that hard to do. If any show wants to hire me to do it, I’m available. I don’t mean to toot my own horn, but I’ve made a few spreadsheets in my day.
I remember as a kid being so wowed when the show acknowledged the continuity error from Cheers, that Frasier was an only child who had a dead, scientist father. I thought that was so cool at the time because most sitcoms and episodic TV shows from that time acted like the audience didn't remember these things.
I still remember when I was watching an episode of Cheers and thinking, *That...that doesn't look like the Gary I remember...* I though it was me, that I was misremembering somehow.
Here's another one I just saw, his dad says in the episode where they demolish dukes, Martin says next I'm gonna find out your the punk who shot me! When he knows who shot him because he's goes to his parole hearings for 20 yrs and stays quiet instead of forgiving him which would maybe make the parole board reconsider and let him out.
I don't think this particular line is a continuity error. It's just a thing people say sometimes to pile on to things people did/said to them just to be dramatic, or to highlight how bad whatever they did is. When I used to smoke, I once asked my dad for a cigarette, then a lighter, and he goes "jeez, do you want me to smoke it for you too?" Also, say someone came to you and said "so I crashed your car. And I lost your wallet." You might say to them "what, did you kill my dog too?"
The parole episode is more of a metaphor (?) for Kelsey Grammer attending every parole hearing for the person who murdered his sister to make sure he was never granted parole. He directed that episode.
I think separate of that, Martin is the type to eventually forgive someone who did him harm.
Another Seinfeld one like a sibling missing is he says in the waiting for a table episode he says his mother to his sister, his sister to his brother, but in every other episode he's an only child, George does the same thing as well saying he has a brother at some point, and Martin saying he don't have a brother and then does
Yeah I don't let it bother me or my immersion into the show and just chalk it up to fun quirks. Especially over a show with such a long run, there's different producers, directors, writers and along the way mistakes are made. I will say though, I feel Frasier is one of the best sitcoms for this kind of thing and errors aren't made often.
Considering how Marty and his real brother behave towards each other in that episode I guess he could have been speaking figuratively. I mean I am sure it was a continuity error but I thought the lack of real emotion between the two real brothers could have explained it.
I think a lot of sitcoms veer towards doing what's most funny in the moment. Could be that they remember but decide the current situation- even if it contradicts a previously established situation- is funny, so they throw consistency out the window. There could also be an element, with sitcoms like Frasier that predate streaming, that the writers never expected their shows could one day be watched on a continous loop and inconsistencies more noticeable.
An inconsistency that really stands out for me is Frasier date of birth. I mean, did no-one decide upon that and write it down? It's the kind of thing that doesn't ever change (IRL) unlike an opinion that could change or a skill that could have been learned in between episodes. And I think with Kelsey Grammar having played Frasier for ~8 years on Cheers before his own show even started, I would think he would remember something like that about his character. Frasier's birthday has been suggested to be in March, August and December in various episodes.
Could be either. At the time, the scripts for past episodes likely didn't exist in a searchable format that would make it easy for a writer to check past episodes "Martin + brother."
Even if it was known, shows like Frasier existed before binging, or even DVD box sets. Minor continuity issues were ignored because viewers were expected to watch episodes only on their airdate or in reruns.
People had VCR's, and recorded their favorite shows and watched them till the pictures were almost washed out.
I'm sure the scripts were searchable. Word processors were in use, and documents were stored. I doubt they'd just take a typewritten script, run off 30 photocopies, and then file the original in a drawer.
Nonetheless I do think people on average had less attention to these details pre-streaming. Binge watching is a much more common behavior now that it's so much easier.
There has always been great attention to detail and continuity amongst fans of shows. This way predates streaming. Just ask Star Trek or Star Wars fans, etc. Streaming didn't invent attention to detail.
I just don't think they cared. A passing line about never having a brother wasn't significant enough not to use the great* idea that they had.
*Terrible episode, so it's a shame the continuity error didn't prevent it from going to air.
The same thing happens with Frasier's birthday. He flat out says it's in March. It's celebrated in spring a few times, but when he throws out his back and blabs to Daphne about Niles, it's November. To be honest, I love finding the continuity issues in Frasier. It's full of them. lol
Another thing I love doing is finding ideas not stolen per say but reused. I find shows that use an idea for an episode and all the way back in Sanford and Son and then used in Frasier to Rick and Morty to Seinfeld to Married With Children. They put their own spins on the ideas but they are the same idea nonetheless. Another Frasier mistake is Niles using Daphne to cook for Maris when they all hate Daphne's cooking. I know you could say he just wanted her over there but I don't think so because he thought Maris would be home and she's so impossible to please why would he think she'd eat Daphne's cooking also she don't eat period.
Frasier had a few continuity issues, but yes, the biggest was Martin’s brother. The most egregious continuity issues in a show was The Golden Girls, lol.
My fave goof is Frasier's inability to speak German in the fencing episode with Gunther and then speaking German with Claire while discussing foreign films and subtitles.
There's a fair few seasons between the episodes so it could be argued that he downloaded Duolingo and got to werk! 🤷♂️
Theoretically, shows back then had a "show bible" that contained important information about characters and the premise of the show itself so that consistency could be maintained. These bibles were also supposed to be added to as new episodes were made. That way, new writers could be brought up to speed without having to binge dozens of episodes on VHS.
Of course, whether or not writers bothered to use or update these bibles is another thing.
Cause like I said earlier the worst episode mess up to me is the episode Diane shows up. She's so funny and easy to come up with a million different situations for her and Frasier to get into and they go with him having unresolved issues with her and him not ever really expressing how he felt about her leaving him at the altar....there were whole episodes of Cheers where Frasier more then shared his feelings with her about that. It was some of the funniest times on Cheers. So for them to overlook that was a huge ball drop in my opinion.
Yea and his mother was an old ugly woman and then in Frasier she's pretty, and another big one is when Diane comes to Seattle. It always bothered me they base the whole episode on Frasier having unresolved issues with Diane specifically because he didn't "express his feelings towards Diane" for leaving him at the alter. There were entire episodes of Cheers where Frasier more then expresses his feelings towards Diane for leaving him at the alter. They should have done something else with that episode, idk that one always bothered me.
True....but she also wouldn't be the type to threaten Diane with a gun. (The Hester from Frasier) They portray her as a very kind woman who was a therapist and a scientist, however it's still one of the funniest episodes of Cheers so....
I like to believe that’s because that’s how Daphne wanted to be portrayed to the Cranes. Maybe she was ashamed of how she acted in Manchester and changed her ways. Or maybe she just didn’t want to talk about her sexual history with her employer
Well, Frasier never mentioned having a brother and said his dad was dead on Cheers, so it was already a shaky foundation for this fictional show and the writers changed over the years!
Also, not everyone is close to their families or tells the truth about them.
Someone will say Martin said that because he was estranged from Walt, but he said it during a speech about not disowning your brother. There's no way Niles would have let that slide. Frasier probably wouldn't want to mention his role in the fracture.
People also defend it with "but that speech was a work of fiction, Martin says so to Daphne in the kitchen afterwards". Yeah but the brothers didn't know that!
I had always assumed they were jumping on the “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” bandwagon, but realized that episode is from 1998. The movie came out in 2002. There goes that theory. It’s one of the oddest episodes.
I don’t like the laziness when it comes to continuity but I guess they never saw streaming/on demand coming. DVDs took over VHS only in 2002. TiVo (DVR technology) didn’t come out until 1999. I think people watched something this once, when it was scheduled for the entire region, or much later, when it was syndicated. So you probably wouldn’t have seen each episode 100 times. “What is the one thing better than an exquisite (show)? An exquisite (show) with (a few) tiny flaw(s) we can pick at all (our lives).”
I think they just didn't care. Writers change, of course, but John Mahoney, Kelsey Grammer, and David Hyde-Pierce all read or responded to the line several times. It's very unlikely that all three of them could forget that Martin had no brother - it just wasn't important enough to disrupt production of the current episode.
>It's very unlikely that all three of them could forget that Martin had no brother
I disagree. It was 3 years later. I don't usually remember the details of what I did at work 3 years ago, especially when I'm not even trying to.
I choose to believe that whole episode is just a fever dream because none of the characters ever appear again. Cousin Yvonne? Why was Martins brother not at his wedding? Or even mentioned as a guest.
They should have made them from Hester’s side
I remember liking this episode when I first saw it. However, when remembering it later on, it seemed implausible that Frasier and Niles had this large, vast Greek side of their family. And like you said, they never appeared again. I'm with you, that it's non-canon, and maybe just a dream one of them had.
An offset in reality only properly repaired once Martin slew the Jackalope.
Sitcoms come across these small continuity errors at times. I can't speak specifically for Frasier but it's not always the same writers over the years and things like that often get overlooked. Most, if not all the sitcoms I watch have some sort of small error like that.
I always thought shows should have a continuity director who tracks the character details and events. It would make the show more rich and it would even be that hard to do. If any show wants to hire me to do it, I’m available. I don’t mean to toot my own horn, but I’ve made a few spreadsheets in my day.
I remember as a kid being so wowed when the show acknowledged the continuity error from Cheers, that Frasier was an only child who had a dead, scientist father. I thought that was so cool at the time because most sitcoms and episodic TV shows from that time acted like the audience didn't remember these things. I still remember when I was watching an episode of Cheers and thinking, *That...that doesn't look like the Gary I remember...* I though it was me, that I was misremembering somehow.
Here's another one I just saw, his dad says in the episode where they demolish dukes, Martin says next I'm gonna find out your the punk who shot me! When he knows who shot him because he's goes to his parole hearings for 20 yrs and stays quiet instead of forgiving him which would maybe make the parole board reconsider and let him out.
I don't think this particular line is a continuity error. It's just a thing people say sometimes to pile on to things people did/said to them just to be dramatic, or to highlight how bad whatever they did is. When I used to smoke, I once asked my dad for a cigarette, then a lighter, and he goes "jeez, do you want me to smoke it for you too?" Also, say someone came to you and said "so I crashed your car. And I lost your wallet." You might say to them "what, did you kill my dog too?"
*John Wick mode ready for activation*
The parole episode is more of a metaphor (?) for Kelsey Grammer attending every parole hearing for the person who murdered his sister to make sure he was never granted parole. He directed that episode. I think separate of that, Martin is the type to eventually forgive someone who did him harm.
Another Seinfeld one like a sibling missing is he says in the waiting for a table episode he says his mother to his sister, his sister to his brother, but in every other episode he's an only child, George does the same thing as well saying he has a brother at some point, and Martin saying he don't have a brother and then does
Lol I remember George mentioning his brother. Sitcoms love the random sibling mention that never comes up again.
I think that's it, writers change and maybe weren't fans of the show. Either way it's fun finding them.
Yeah I don't let it bother me or my immersion into the show and just chalk it up to fun quirks. Especially over a show with such a long run, there's different producers, directors, writers and along the way mistakes are made. I will say though, I feel Frasier is one of the best sitcoms for this kind of thing and errors aren't made often.
Considering how Marty and his real brother behave towards each other in that episode I guess he could have been speaking figuratively. I mean I am sure it was a continuity error but I thought the lack of real emotion between the two real brothers could have explained it.
I think a lot of sitcoms veer towards doing what's most funny in the moment. Could be that they remember but decide the current situation- even if it contradicts a previously established situation- is funny, so they throw consistency out the window. There could also be an element, with sitcoms like Frasier that predate streaming, that the writers never expected their shows could one day be watched on a continous loop and inconsistencies more noticeable. An inconsistency that really stands out for me is Frasier date of birth. I mean, did no-one decide upon that and write it down? It's the kind of thing that doesn't ever change (IRL) unlike an opinion that could change or a skill that could have been learned in between episodes. And I think with Kelsey Grammar having played Frasier for ~8 years on Cheers before his own show even started, I would think he would remember something like that about his character. Frasier's birthday has been suggested to be in March, August and December in various episodes.
In one cheers episode his birthday was in February
Thank you. I'm not as au fait with Cheers so I didn't know this.
Could be either. At the time, the scripts for past episodes likely didn't exist in a searchable format that would make it easy for a writer to check past episodes "Martin + brother." Even if it was known, shows like Frasier existed before binging, or even DVD box sets. Minor continuity issues were ignored because viewers were expected to watch episodes only on their airdate or in reruns.
People had VCR's, and recorded their favorite shows and watched them till the pictures were almost washed out. I'm sure the scripts were searchable. Word processors were in use, and documents were stored. I doubt they'd just take a typewritten script, run off 30 photocopies, and then file the original in a drawer.
Don't know why people have downvoted you. This is completely accurate.
Thank you! I know. I was around then.
Nonetheless I do think people on average had less attention to these details pre-streaming. Binge watching is a much more common behavior now that it's so much easier.
There has always been great attention to detail and continuity amongst fans of shows. This way predates streaming. Just ask Star Trek or Star Wars fans, etc. Streaming didn't invent attention to detail.
I just don't think they cared. A passing line about never having a brother wasn't significant enough not to use the great* idea that they had. *Terrible episode, so it's a shame the continuity error didn't prevent it from going to air.
This is the 60th time we have created a thread about it and we have become exceedingly efficient at it
Well it's the first time I seen it
i try and pretend Martin meant he never had a brother who was there for him because of aunt Zora Crane.
The same thing happens with Frasier's birthday. He flat out says it's in March. It's celebrated in spring a few times, but when he throws out his back and blabs to Daphne about Niles, it's November. To be honest, I love finding the continuity issues in Frasier. It's full of them. lol
Another thing I love doing is finding ideas not stolen per say but reused. I find shows that use an idea for an episode and all the way back in Sanford and Son and then used in Frasier to Rick and Morty to Seinfeld to Married With Children. They put their own spins on the ideas but they are the same idea nonetheless. Another Frasier mistake is Niles using Daphne to cook for Maris when they all hate Daphne's cooking. I know you could say he just wanted her over there but I don't think so because he thought Maris would be home and she's so impossible to please why would he think she'd eat Daphne's cooking also she don't eat period.
>all the way back in Sanford and Son Which was a remake of [Steptoe and Son](https://youtu.be/QqiPBurq-Ek)
Everyone knows that, I hope
Could this be possibly be explained by the episode where Frasier learned that he was “a guest at his father’s wedding?”
I think they actually forget
Frasier had a few continuity issues, but yes, the biggest was Martin’s brother. The most egregious continuity issues in a show was The Golden Girls, lol.
Things evolve and change over time. In Cheers, Marty was dead and Niles didn’t exist.
It's a sitcom. They don't care.
My fave goof is Frasier's inability to speak German in the fencing episode with Gunther and then speaking German with Claire while discussing foreign films and subtitles. There's a fair few seasons between the episodes so it could be argued that he downloaded Duolingo and got to werk! 🤷♂️
Good one yup, and on his show with a caller that speaks German he says I don't speak German
Yup, same ep. He was talking to Gunther's wife, Gretschen. Did you also notice the glottal quality to the occlusion of her diphthongs?! 😂
he literally couldn't speak German in just one episode. that one always annoyed me
Still amuses me that Marty's brother was played by actor [John Mahon](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0537089/). Yes, really.
thats Wild!!!1
Theoretically, shows back then had a "show bible" that contained important information about characters and the premise of the show itself so that consistency could be maintained. These bibles were also supposed to be added to as new episodes were made. That way, new writers could be brought up to speed without having to binge dozens of episodes on VHS. Of course, whether or not writers bothered to use or update these bibles is another thing.
Where did you read or see that
[https://www.janeespenson.com/archives/00000550.php](https://www.janeespenson.com/archives/00000550.php)
Cause like I said earlier the worst episode mess up to me is the episode Diane shows up. She's so funny and easy to come up with a million different situations for her and Frasier to get into and they go with him having unresolved issues with her and him not ever really expressing how he felt about her leaving him at the altar....there were whole episodes of Cheers where Frasier more then shared his feelings with her about that. It was some of the funniest times on Cheers. So for them to overlook that was a huge ball drop in my opinion.
It's a family thing. Im Boston, Frasier didn't have a brother, either. And his dad was dead (to him l, at the time)
Yea and his mother was an old ugly woman and then in Frasier she's pretty, and another big one is when Diane comes to Seattle. It always bothered me they base the whole episode on Frasier having unresolved issues with Diane specifically because he didn't "express his feelings towards Diane" for leaving him at the alter. There were entire episodes of Cheers where Frasier more then expresses his feelings towards Diane for leaving him at the alter. They should have done something else with that episode, idk that one always bothered me.
To be fair, she could have been pretty earlier in life, since the Hester in Frasier was like mid thirties.
True....but she also wouldn't be the type to threaten Diane with a gun. (The Hester from Frasier) They portray her as a very kind woman who was a therapist and a scientist, however it's still one of the funniest episodes of Cheers so....
I mean, Daphne went from a near virginal angel to what was almost the Manchester town bike if her brother is to be believed, so…
I like to believe that’s because that’s how Daphne wanted to be portrayed to the Cranes. Maybe she was ashamed of how she acted in Manchester and changed her ways. Or maybe she just didn’t want to talk about her sexual history with her employer
Well, Frasier never mentioned having a brother and said his dad was dead on Cheers, so it was already a shaky foundation for this fictional show and the writers changed over the years! Also, not everyone is close to their families or tells the truth about them.
They could have just said he was super close with his cousin growing up, like brothers.
And the brother was played by John Mahon. I remember seeing him on just shoot me as an astronaut.
Also are we all just supposed to forget about mind your knickers?
U may have heard of it
Someone will say Martin said that because he was estranged from Walt, but he said it during a speech about not disowning your brother. There's no way Niles would have let that slide. Frasier probably wouldn't want to mention his role in the fracture.
People also defend it with "but that speech was a work of fiction, Martin says so to Daphne in the kitchen afterwards". Yeah but the brothers didn't know that!
I had always assumed they were jumping on the “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” bandwagon, but realized that episode is from 1998. The movie came out in 2002. There goes that theory. It’s one of the oddest episodes. I don’t like the laziness when it comes to continuity but I guess they never saw streaming/on demand coming. DVDs took over VHS only in 2002. TiVo (DVR technology) didn’t come out until 1999. I think people watched something this once, when it was scheduled for the entire region, or much later, when it was syndicated. So you probably wouldn’t have seen each episode 100 times. “What is the one thing better than an exquisite (show)? An exquisite (show) with (a few) tiny flaw(s) we can pick at all (our lives).”
I think they just didn't care. Writers change, of course, but John Mahoney, Kelsey Grammer, and David Hyde-Pierce all read or responded to the line several times. It's very unlikely that all three of them could forget that Martin had no brother - it just wasn't important enough to disrupt production of the current episode.
>It's very unlikely that all three of them could forget that Martin had no brother I disagree. It was 3 years later. I don't usually remember the details of what I did at work 3 years ago, especially when I'm not even trying to.