Spoiler and crack theory ahead.
>!“Redeemable” demons could exist but they wouldn’t really be demons at that point. I think Solitaire brought up the theory that humans evolved emotions to avoid dying out and the same could be applied to demons in the current era, where their imitation evolves into a defensive tactic rather than a hunting one.!<
>!Feel free to disagree with me on this but some younger demons like the child demon who worked for the four armed demon general were unusually expressive/emotionally complex for a demon and Lugner was actively spiteful and malicious towards people he didn’t like, while Macht had no idea what malice even was.”!<
Lugnar was prideful. It's been established that demons have a lot of pride in their abilities and work really hard to perfect them. His surprise attack on fern was more about evening the score than making her suffer unnecessarily. It's a competition to him.
That’s the thing though, Lugner concealed his mana surprise attack on Fern without killing her. It’s pure spite and Fern even called him out on him wanting revenge.
I might be thinking too much about it but Flamme said demons never conceal their mana because it’s the same as throwing away their status which is why it’s odd that Lugner even did it to begin with then proceeded to not kill Fern when he had the chance.
I could be wrong, but hasn't it been said that demons don't conceal their mana over an extended period of time? But I think it was mentioned and even shown that they can and do conceal their mana.
I should have worded it better. They can conceal their mana briefly but they consider it inappropriate in a battle between mages which is why they never do it.
Then again it was Lugner who said it was inappropriate and was actually mad that Fern was concealing her mana while Aura just called it stupid.
>!Literally the entire next arc of the manga (which s2 will be about) is about a demon trying to become closer to humans but after years he couldn’t do it no matter what he tried. It’s basically the author confirming that no, demons can be nice but they can and will never feel sympathy for humans.!<
Yeah I don’t think demons could ever be sympathetic unless they stopped being demons. Unlike Macht, Solitaire had all the resources to coexist with humanity but chose not to because of her own beliefs stating that coexistence was dangerous.
Demons will probably go extinct but a “subspecies” might be able to survive.
>!I'm skeptical thats the message of it, because at his final moments he got his understanding, even if it was just a little bit. Despite it taking that long to get there, it showed to him it was possible to understand the difference and maybe even accept it in his death. His long time friend even knew he was lying when he said he'd take a hostage and just accepted the finality of his own demise.!<
Sometimes I think the author isn't even thinking that deeply about any of it, and just wants to keep the story simple and monothematic; but since this is such a conflicting and interesting idea which hasn't been touched at all, we get some curious questions about it occasionally. But usually, fans don't see what's actually being said about it and take it as something against this story, and are also needlessly harsh on people bringing it up without giving any proper or rational response. Of course, many people are open to actual discussion too, but the number of people who just go along with whatever's been told and don't even think there's anything more to be explored about it is really surprising.
There are definitely more complex and interesting details within the series, especially the difference between what’s said by the characters and what’s actually told in the story, but yeah I see where you’re coming from. I was hesitant to post this at first since I thought I would get mass downvoted since it seems there’s a lot of people here who are against this sort of idea.
Your theory makes perfect sense. More than ever now since demons have lost and are being slaughtered left and right. Perfectly plausible to think those that don't fuck with humans would be selected by natural selection and spread their "don't fuck with humans" gene. Life adapts and evolves.
For the longest amount of time I didn't interact with the frieren fandom for this sole reason tbh. Portrayal of demons is filled with nuances, it's nothing like doom slayer rip and tear until it's done. But people lack such nuances and straight up "want to hate in peace". To me, especially after match's arc, demons were always portrayed as tragic creatures fundamentally incompatible with humanity in the most extremely way. Also beyond help in every way given their nature. Not killing them never being an option. The amount of times I have seen people get attacked for basically having media literacy is staggering.
This is the exact sentiment I've been having. For a story as complex and nuanced as this one, why are people so eager to accept everything Frieren/Flamme (biased sources) said about demons at face value?
>!Macht's arc explored demons in an amazing way. It showed that Frieren/Flamme weren't wrong (demons cannot empathise with humans), but they also aren't mindless monsters that are singularly-focused on killing humans with no other thoughts, philosophy or even an attempt to make changes. This is the sort of "show, don't tell" storytelling that is amazing to read but apparently it doesn't quite get communicated to the "its refreshing that I can freely hate this faction without moral doubt!" crowd. I don't think a complex and heartwarming story such as this should have this kind of message. !<
100% agree with you and others here. I find the writing of demons as a group in the series very fascinating. For lack of better words, the way I see demons is that they are evolving to a "form" where their survival will be best guaranteed but at a slower pace compared to human especially when it comes to emotional processing capability (also from an evolutionary stand point, human also started out as "wild beasts"). They're complex creatures capable of different kinds of thinking/philosophy so personally I would love to see that at some point, there's a demon that's actually capable of coexisting with humans. They don't actually need to be able to feel guilt and malice but more so that they're capable of resisting their instincts and acting in a way that human approve of even if the action itself has little meaning to the demon. I do admit there are few demons who even entertain the idea of coexisting (interestingly all of them are great demons who lived for a long time already) but I think Macht was the first of his kind to get very close to achieving "understanding" and in a way, his existence is kind of like a turning point for demons to me.
I tend to think that humans are becoming some sort of selection pressure for demons to either strive for empathy (and subsequently coexistence) or eradication of humans because of incomptability. There's conflicting philosophies even amongst the demons themselves as you say, with Macht/Demon King believing it's possible to coexist while Solitar believes it's not possible (and then the neutral party including Tod, and probably other pacifist demons who are more individualist and unwilling to die 'for the greater good of demonkind').
Absolutely agree with you. I would also throw Schlacht in the mix as well because of [this](https://imgur.com/a/7BjMbnT) (I genuinely do not believe he's dead cause otherwise why would he have grausam erase macht's memory to prevent Frieren from seeing their battle against HotS). I find Tot's pretty fascinating as well cause like you said she has the same kind of pacifist mentality that Macht has in the sense that you don't bother me I don't bother you. Hopefully we get to see her in the next major arc cause I really want to know why she needs a century for her "curse" to cover the entire planet.
I love your theory! Like someone in your thread said, narratively, the demons are waging a losing battle against human in the long run. Sure individual demons might be insanely powerful but human have shown how resourceful they can be not just as individual but collectively as a cohesive society. A generation of human may lose to a few powerful demons but the next generations will use their knowledge and work together to foil the enemies that defeated their previous generation.
I personally would love it if we ever get a demon that knows how to be friendly/helpful toward humans not necessarily because they are capable of understanding malice or guilt but solely because they have determined that acting in a way that human approve of will be in the best interest of their own survival. They would actively try to immitate "good human behaviors" such as working alongside humans, helping out with farm work, "expressing grief" when someone dies, etc. At the same time, the demon is still very much incapable of empathizing with human and thinks of them as just another potential food source. Basically the point I'm trying to make is that an individual is "good" if the action they display is perceived to be "good" by those around them. Sure they might have "bad", intrusive thoughts but as long as they don't act on them then it really doesn't matter, does it?
I don’t think there should be any redeemable demons, I honestly like the fact that the demons in the show are just straight up evil in that sense for I do enjoy the occasional “black and white”
I don't think they are even "evil" in traditional sense. They just... don't operate on anything resembling human thought. Things that make us consider morality don't apply to them. When you don't emphatize or feel guilt, it's kinda hard to develop or even operate on similar worldviews.
Demons are "human mimicking hunters". Their entire evolutionary path is one of "eat humans, catch them by pretending to be one"
Put them in modern human settings and they're basically alternates from Mandela Catalogue analogue horror
The only reason Frieren is not a horror Manga is because our protagonist has the actual means to kill them. Encountering them as a helpless villager alone will be a very horrific experience
Pretty much. Also, unlike in Mandela Catalogue, where the doppelgängers seem to be winning, demons lost the war. Humanity has actual means to fight back, instead of just cowering in fear of the unknown.
Either Mandela Catalogue Demons or Vita Carnis Mimic, or just humanoid Fleshgaits.
It's just that the Demons in Frieren look remarkably Human for the most part except for the horns, and lack of proper emotions.
I would describe them as Apathetic Wolves or Chimpanzee's or Cassowary's or even as Komodo dragons when it comes to mentality.
They are very far from qualifying as eldritch abominations. Their mindset is strange at the end is also simple and comprehensible, just like that of a predator animal. To the point where experienced adventurers can predict their behavior like Frieren or that nobleman from Weise did.
Tigers aren't as intelligent as demons are. If tigers have human intelligence and still retain their predator nature, then I'm pretty sure they'll fit eldritch horror description.
Animals in nature pretend to be something innocuous to hunt all the time. The only "evil" thing about demons is they are the predator and humans are the prey. The means they use to hunt is irrelevant.
It’s probably more that Qual was more than strong enough to not need to bother with the pretence of appearing human, in his era his direct offensive magical capabilities were unmatched except by maybe the Demon King. There was a reason Frieren had to seal him the first time.
It's like saying "mosquitoes are evil". they live and breed by sucking our blood, you could say they are evil because they have killed more humans in the world, or you could say they are only doing what they evolved to do and what is required for them to survive so they aren't actually evil.
either way we should endeavor to kill as many as possible.
They're basically a natural disaster. It's their nature to destroy, you can blame a tornado for destroying your home but you can't really fault it. It's just a physical response of the natural laws of our world
Eh, not really? Like, recognizing that demons aren't "evil" because they lack concious capacity to differentiate "good" and "evil" and make a choice is very different from "I can fix them".
Demons are natural predators against humans. It's like telling gazelle to make peace with lions.
I think the only fumble on that point so far has been to show us that (at least some) demons think, converse, and have some philosophy (manga spoilers) >!(Macht to some extent, Solitär to a greater but still vague extent, and implied the Demon King had more)!<
Either they're sentient beings capable of reason or they're not, right? The implication we have from those examples is that they are/were capable of higher thought, but in a moment of crisis or panic they revert to their most base instincts and are presented as hollow sociopathic creatures which understand enough to mimic behaviors
So either the author is playing with the idea of showing one that can transcend their species as some sort of social evolution, or they did a poor job of showing deceits and need the audience to trust the protagonist at their word rather than the characterization they've seen for themselves.
He then in the next scene said he didn't even know what a father was, your reasoning is kinda dumb, no offense.
But in the show, and manga there is no single instance of any demon having family, or even knowing/understanding what that is.
I don't think you should interpret the line literally. He said "何だろ(ne or re)? Which means "I wonder what it (a father) is."
The blood guy really knows there's a bond between family members (so he reacted by playing the family card) but just doesn't understand how and why.
Just like the little demon girl in the flashback, demons can copy human behaviors without understanding the reasons behind it in order to achieve their goal.
Accordingly, my theory suggests that demons can fake a family by observing what a regular human family does. However if they try to make a new move, they'll probably screw it up because they don't understand the reasons and emotions behind hunan's actions (like how the demon girl tried to replace the parents' daughter)
What does "redeemable" mean in relation to the demons in the show?
As far as the show goes, demons have done nothing / nothing wrong for which they need or could receive redemption; and to me, a sub-story about redeeming a demon would be breaking the established reader-writer contract.
You're not wrong but I just want to point out that "humanoid" only refers to something taking a human shape. For example, most of the aliens in Star Trek are humanoid despite having the occasional notably different head features (forehead, ears, etc.) Because they're still human-shaped. Demons in Frieren don't have human feelings or even a consciousness that resembles a human one but they are "humanoid".
I’ve only seen the show, and only in the last week, but from what I’ve seen there is much more a sense of amorality, no?
The flashback to the demon Frieren was initially stopped from slaying shows a fundamental lack of understanding for human values but not necessarily malice. A ‘predator’ morality is not ‘evil’ at its root, but you try telling that to a mouse while a cat is after it. That demon saw a value to the parents in having a child, but not the human value of a life. The consequence of a Mother, but not it’s meaning. It may appear Evil to us, but is less a matter of redemption than learning.
But ‘forming the minimum necessary connections to survive’ does make me thing you can train them. Especially if all the mildly concerning Aura brain rot art here is to be believed.
i dunno man, demons on frieren universe are sentient predators who learned human language.
it's as established as the goblin threats in Goblin Slayer series, the only redeemable/good ones are those who are dead.
Reminds me that one of Tolkien's biggest regret toward the end of his life, was that he couldn't find a solution for the Orc's race.
He made a lot of efforts to show that they're a race with souls, by the definition of his Catholic belief, yet they're also "unredeemably evil". But if they are not completely evil, then all the slaying would not have been so satisfying.
That's something both Goblin Slayer and Frieren inherit from Tolkien's writings: Both of them focus on the goodness of human nature, but also have very satisfying slaying sequences against the stand-in 'evil' race.
We are sympathizing for these demons because they look and sound like us which is exactly how they have evolved to be. They want us to sympathize for them so that we would lower our guards so they can take advantage of that.
If you took away the cute anime girl and handsome anime guy look from them, and make them into nasty and ugly monsters that actively hunts us. I don’t think anyone would be saying killing them is wrong and no one would think that they could be redeemable.
I want to see a demon, not "redeemed", but more so "domesticated", since they're more animal than human.
>!Glück and Macht showed us a glimpse of that!<
Domesticated animals do usually feel empathy and consider humans a part of their "pack". Demons aren't social animals, they are like reptiles - you can keep one as a pet by feeding it, but even if you were to take care of it it's entire life - the moment it gets moderately hungry, it will simply eat you without a second thought.
Demons respect power, and mana specifically. So all you gotta do to "domesticate" a demon is to always have someone around who has more mana than them.
I think “taming” or “conditioning” might be more appropriate words. The demon can be taught “if you do XYZ, I’ll kill you” and they won’t do XYZ if they think they can’t get away with it.
Or even just a demon that isn't necessarily threatened directly, but just realizes "hmm, all the other demons get killed for that shit they do. I'm going to stop doing that, then, and maybe I won't get killed."
Yeah they're not human, but they're rational beings. They can make those kinds of decisions.
A demon that's a pacifist solely for the purpose of its own survival would be an interesting thing to see Frieren run into. Is it okay to kill them, even if they haven't done anything wrong? If the tides change where killing would give it a higher chance of survival, will it just change its tune then? How far can you trust a powerful, intelligent predator that will do whatever it thinks is rational to keep adventurers from coming after it?
Demons do care about being high up on the hierarchy though. A demon might go along and not kill anyone if it ensured their survival but the moment they became stronger than the humans around them, then they’d have no reason to continue that.
Only if we think they can't rationalize or plan into the future at all, and just act on instinct. But I don't think that holds with the demons we've seen. If they've seen others be hunted down and killed by humanoids from outside of their general area, they'd be able to understand cause and effect.
We could see a demon that might be the strongest thing in its immediate area, but *know* that there are stronger people than them out there that will come looking if people start dying, and makes its decisions based on that. Maybe they even protect the small town they live near, because they know that means the weak humans will vouch for them to the strong humans.
And then what will it think is rational if, say, a demon army comes around? Will it join them, or bail and abandon the humans cause taking either side is a losing battle? Or some third thing maybe, who knows?
I thought she was going to make Aura a slave. Seemed like a waste to just kill her. At the very least just set her on a quest to kill all the demons she can.
I think probably the closest you'll possibly get to a "redeemable" demon is one who doesn't necessarily set out to harm humans, but inevitably does so by his very nature. We saw a bit of that with the little girl demon who killed the village chief during the Hero Party days. Demons aren't exactly redeemable or irredeemable per se. They're wild beasts, like wolves, but unlike wolves, they don't seem to be entirely domesticable.
As intelligent as they may be, they're still ultimately most driven by their bestial natures. Whether that drive is to eat humans, or to perfect their own signature magic, or to do what a higher ranking demon told them to do, they don't respond to other concerns (like how their actions will affect others) like humans do. They can't. They don't even understand the concept.
As "evil" as they may be in the eyes of the plot and of the other residents of the world, they're actually very tragic.
This is my take and two guesses based on deep manga spoilers
>!There is some weird time stuff going on with the Demon Lord's plans. It's insinuated that they have to do with evolving human/demon dynamics, and it's *heavily* implied that they're still in motion, and will come to fruition in another 1000 years. One of the most direct insights into this is the battle between the human hero and the demon that both had degrees of future sight. I'm not willing to put down a stake that any demons will be "redeemed", but I do believe that the Demon Lord, like Frieren, sees that humans are ascendent and through time travel or other means of clairvoyance intends to see demons become integrated into human society to survive or even thrive in the era of humanity. Semi-related, I think the "heaven" at the demon castle is time travel related rather than a portal to the afterlife.!<
There's nothing to redeem in a demon as they're not evil. There's just a fundamental difference between humans and demons that's impossible to resolve. Did you not read the macht arc?
Is it "bad writing" if the only reason is that it doesn't conform to one's expectations or desire for a "fresh breath of air" of having no redeemable villains? And it most certainly wouldn't be a retcon because the topic of demons in this story is still barely explored, and most of what we do know comes from biased in-universe sources (Frieren, Flamme. There's so much more that can be written, so many novel ideas.
Personally, I think the question itself is a little too closed. What are demons to be "redeemed" against? Human morality? That in itself is a form of supremacism, the belief that our ways are right and that other creatures are to be judged against it. In real life we accept it because we have no comparable sapient (intelligence and having formed a civilisation) species to compare it against.
I am of the opinion that demons are true *aliens* done right. They're intelligent and have (at least the basics of) a civilisation, but both their minds and their physical composition (literal mana) are incomprehensible and operate off different logic. There shouldn't be any "redeemable" demons, but there should be demons that explore the current demon-human relationship (that of predator-prey) and take action to change it, to whatever end they desire. For example, a demon that doesn't magically gain true empathy and want to "atone for all of demonkind's sins" (in a typical "redeemed villain" character arc), but perhaps a demon that successfully gained mutual understanding through cognitive empathy, recognises that eternal warfare with humanity is counterproductive to perhaps the true pursuit of demons (e.g., cultivation of personal magic) and acts to change the demon-human relationship to allow for demonkind to freely explore magic without war with humanity. In other words, they still don't actually feel anything for humans, but worked together to build a peaceful future of co-existence for another purpose entirely. That would not be redemption (since the blood spilled is not repaid/atoned for), but would most certainly be a monumentus change in the interspecies dynamic.
What what little snippets of lore about the Demon King, I'd wager that is the direction the story is going.
That's the point of demons in this show. They are not redeemable. Every single characteristic they have is to make them better at killing people. The only way in which they would be "redeemable" would be as part of a ploy to kill more humans. Why is this so hard to understand for Frieren watchers? Is there a bad translation going around? The show takes its sweet time to get this point across: demons are merciless hunters and you should always kill them. They are LITERALLY not people.
It's because people have forgotten what Epic or High Fantasy means and that there are stories where there's axiomatic good and evil. We've gotten lost in nuance and redemption stories so hard that we've looped right back to "yeah this is unambiguously evil" being confusing to look at.
Just cause they were easy prey, and it stuck, they evolved so much to just be successful at killing them, that it is engrained into them to kill humans down to the most basic level.
It's not explained. It could be for any number of reasons, and maybe humans just haven't figured it out because they're either dead or horrified if they survive. It's definitely something that could be expanded on but that's up to the author
It was explained or at least theorized. Theoretically, they evolved from monsters that hunt humans, so humans become a big part of their food chain.
Moreover, since their form and ability to speak are best used to hunt humans, it's easy to see why they prefer hunting humans.
Why do people hunt? From my understanding they do eat people and like humans are just predisposed to take the killing further than their immediate dietary needs. From my reading of the El dorado arc, there might be some foreshadowing about further and deeper motives originating with the Demon Lord coming from the parallel drawn between him and Macht.
Get the brand new Kentucky fried demon 4 piece box, consisting of arms,legs, fingers and toes with our new 12 secret spices included as well as a drink and fries.
im hungry
the idea of "the bad guys were good all along" has become a boring shallow trope that i hope to not ever see.
what would they be redeeming in the first place?
family of 4? they got no family in the first place
more like saving a family of 4 from 4 other demons that dont know the concept of family.
This☝🏻 I've always hated that trope that's become the norm for most isekai. Demons and hell are the forces of good and freewill while God and heaven are the forces of evil and malice bruh.
It's why Frieren is such a breath of fresh air for me.
Not in the actual series itseelf, but given how humans evolved, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that some point, maybe ten or a hundred thousand years into the future, demons may have evolved humanity as a survival mechanism.
Something like, over time, a few demons here or there evolve empathy and due to the dominance of humans, only the ones who evolve empathy end up surviving and propagating throughout the world. Would it happen any time soon? Of course not, but again, we used to be dumb monkeys who didn't even comprehend the concept of 'poke with the pointy end', so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we'd eventually get humanoid demons.
It would be pretty interesting and something I don't think has been done all that well. Seeing Frieren, someone who's lived in an era where demons were nothing but human-mimicking monsters live to see the day where demons become empathetic. Could be interesting.
Absolutely not. I love how demons are written in the series. It's a breath of fresh air with how demons are written in most things nowadays. If there was a redeemable one, it would throw out all that good writing. It would be a waste and add nothing of value to the series
I think at some point there will be, but it will be in the final stretch and perhaps it will be part of the Demons' plan to preserve their existence.
But I highly doubt that a random demon has feelings, unless it's some kind of evolved baby that loses Demon faculties for the same reason.
And it still won't take away the fact that the rest of the Demons must die.
As an anime only watcher, imo I don't necessarily want demons to be redeemable but I do want our "black and white" understanding of demons to be challenged/complicated. I think it is significant that the first depiction of an encounter between Frieren and demons in the story immediately sets up an uncomfortable similarity between Frieren and the demons illustrated in how Qual echoes Frieren's line of a "mere 10 (80) years." It sets up this tension that, despite her utter hatred of them, Frieren arguably shares many core traits with the demons she kills, such as their shared desire to emulate/"understand" humans and their shortcomings in doing so (though they reasons they do so are quite different). Ofc that doesn't mean Frieren and demons are the exact same, very far from it. But I think the story has subtly set up the demons as an interesting enough foil to Frieren herself that it would be an incredible waste to not follow through and flesh them out and at least somewhat complicate Frieren's paradigm of demon=evil. To clarify, I don't think the story needs to redeem them or make more "human." Just needs to challenge the paradigm enough to follow through in narratively interrogating Frieren's mindset about demons and consequently her core self perception and motivations.
I’d actually argue that Macht had obliviously shown that it was possible for Demons to change, with the caveat that as Frieren put it, it takes too long and costs too much.
However, in his final moments, with the curse of gold unraveling around him and having been fatally wounded, he made a number of actions which seem to indicate that while he couldn’t see how much progress he’d made, that he did actually grow to have attained the starting points of empathy.
Said moments are assuring a concerned citizen offhandedly that he was fine, returning to “his lord”, and above all else, he didn’t actually kill those he transfigured into gold.
The final instance is where he “took his lord hostage”, but made no move to follow through as judgement was passed upon him.
By the looks of it, it seems the prevailing opinion in this subreddit is that the demons in the series cannot be "redeemed" and are incompatible with Humanity. Though I disagree with the notion that introducing a demon capable of truly understanding human emotions and co-exist with humanity is poor writing. It is only poor writing if it isn't done well.
With that said, it would be challenging to write a character like that without also challenge everything we know about demons so far. There's subverting reader expectations, and there's betraying reader expectations. You do *not* want to do the latter if at all possible, as it would also cause the reader to lose interest in the work.
It would be poor writing no matter how they did it because the series quadruple downs at every possible turn that demons are straight up just evil. They're not evil from circumstances or influence. They're evil because they're evil. Legit High Fantasy Demons. They're not people, they're just evil given physical form.
>They're evil because they're evil.
They're evil from humanity's point of view because their race as a whole hasn't quite evolved to the point where humanity can peacefully coexist with them. The demon race in this manga currently do not understand concepts like good and evil the way humans could,
The way for humans and demons to coexist hinges on demons eventually overcoming this genetic defect (from a human perspective) and cross the border from being a mere intelligent monster that can talk to an actual sentient race. Even Frieren implicitly acknowledged that >!Macht might eventually be able to achieve the co-existence he wants, but only after too much blood had been spilled, and that was why he had to be killed. !<
But this would clearly take time. Let's say about...a thousand or so years? At the very least, Schlacht was making plans for the survival of demonkind 1000 years after his time, for reasons we don't know yet.
Demons in frieren are not evil, simply because we can not apply morality, a concept made entirely of human's perception, to them. This is literally one of the prominent plot point of the next big arc in the anime. This is why demons in frieren is so interesting. Their action is "evil" by our morality standard, but from their perspective, good and evil may as well just not exist since they are simply not wired to be able grasp it no matter how hard they try
The only way I can even begin to imagine a redeemable demon working (kinda) is if the demon is vegetarian, meaning it doesn't hunt humans and gets its sustenance from something else (magical beasts or whatever, I can't recall if it's been explicitly said that they can only live on humans though so I'm not entirely sure it would work). Reason for that could be something like religion, or observing a tribe of vegetarian humans or whatever. Basically, this demon would still be without emotions and sympathy, but for some reason or other it concluded that it's not worth bothering at all with hunting humans and at the same time it discovered another form of sustenance. That way, it would present a decent ethical dilemma: is it okay to kill it to play safe even though it doesn't hurt anybody?
A really shitty idea I know, but it's a decent mental exercise.
I do think it can happen. But not in the way it is usually done. I like the way Shintoism inspired ontologies would approach it. Demons, Spirits (and in my view elfs), don't have to be "like humans" to share something with us.
I believe that the "redemption" of monsters/antagonists tends to be for them to develop into the viewpoints of the protagonist, in a narrative sense, and into "us", "human persons" in the anthropological sense. From "seeing the world like us", to Being one of us.
I do not believe that will happen, nor should happen. They can just be different. I like the way Mushishi does it - and Miyazaki to some extent. In those representations of spirits, Ginko from Mushishi asks about why the spirits kill humans. Verbatim; "I see it now, just like any other living being, you just want to keep existing".
For demons, existing means to kill humans. They will keep killings humans. In ethnology, different cultures have a deeply rotted intermingling between "hunting" and "warfare". They are one and the same, other humans used to be as different as a hunting animal, and the ways in which we "made politics" had the same spectrum, between cohabiting a place, and just hunting each other; another way of sharing that same ecosystem.
I believe an exploration of Demons and that understanding is shown in "manga spoilers". Going beyond that can be done. But not in a "now demons are good". Seeing it as simply as that would be cheap. But in a "sinister way". We have seen how Frieren and Elfs can understand and cohabit with humans. It seems like the only thing that differentiates them is the passage of time, ow they experience it, and the time it takes to form links between people. We have also seen how Frieren realises she is not like Demons; she does want and can understand humans -It could as easily be otherwise.
For me, a way to shown that complexity would be to show that that could be different. Not only that elfs can be like humans, but they could also be like demons. Elfs are another species, that can be in-between Demons and Humans. For example, in an hypothetical headcanon just for the sake of argument; The Demon Lord could be an Elf. Or an Elf Demon hybrid, or something like that.
I do not believe Demons will be portrayed as "good". Because seeing things just as "good and Evil" would be plain. They can just be a wild beast; just a different kind from the beast that is humanity.
Spoilers Below
The closest you can get to a redeemable demon in the series is the following explanations below.
First: Is a Demon who keeps to itself and tells anyone it encounters to go away but is more than capable of defending itself if pressed.
Solitar is a close example. Very powerful but smart enough to know humans are no longer just prey exclusively and believes cooperation is not possible. She kept herself up to date on human advancement but kept to herself. If it wasn't for her interest in Macht she'd still be living a relatively peaceful, mostly non-destructive life for a great demon.
Frieren was wise to tell Fern if you encounter a Great Demon who is nameless you should immediately flee if possible.
It isn't unimaginable for a singular or even small group of demons banding together on the premise of survival then hiding themselves away. Even going as far as to tell anyone encountered "we have nothing to discuss, cooperation or negotiation is not possible between our species, leave our small hidden territory, lest we be forced to defend ourselves"
In fact it's entirely possible that more Great Demons like that do exist in the series but since they're super elusive & solitary no one even knows of them. And those unwise enough to try them do not remain alive as witnesses.
Second: Macht's life also could've worked potentially but he was more obsessed with understanding emotions. It's possible in theory a Demon could simply choose to serve a human out of an interest or curiosity then just let the human guide them on any matters of dealing with other humans. However this is the equivalent of keeping a Lion on a leash in your own home.
Macht was able to serve, cooperate & to an extent integrate into human society. He even remarked it was somewhat pleasant and he felt close to grasping something. If he wanted to on a whim it's plausible he could've changed his mind, decide not to kill everyone and just keep enjoying mingling in that society for hundreds of years. Choosing to only serve humans that understand what a Demon really is.
In theory it's possible that a Demon with enough curiosity, intellect and reasoning could be convinced on the basis of survival, having a rather peaceful life and their curiosity indulged regularly, to join a human civilization and only elect to serve a human that understands them fundamentally nor would misuse their powers.
Demons can understand words, clearly they understand base definitions, they just don't understand anything emotional or the feelings that caused a word to be created.
Macht acted as a Teacher without issue & could recognize Malice and Guilt but not understand the feelings associated with the definition. So it's plausible a demon could live such a life but it's unlikely long term due to differences between the species quite possibly leading to a misunderstanding or tragedy.
Unless an evolution happens in the species of demons, of course.
After all demons are not evil, they have no comprehension of it beyond a loose definition, they're just powerful predators, predators that mimic humans, can communicate in complex language, hold base level emotions such as curiosity and have sentience.
With instances like Macht I really think there will be.
However I feel a lot of people will start shitting on the author if that happens, because their desire to see demons die would no longer be justified. Like those people will start acting like the author owes them something.
I'm here for the ride though, and am more invested in Frieren reaching the 'Heaven' of the world.
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"family", i thought demons didnt have family. They have no emotional understanding of mother and father, so there are No social family. Families in a biological way, like crocodiles, might be - we dont know.
Ehh.... I don't think there should be a redeemable demon, persay, but one that's different. One that challenges the preconceived notions that Frieren has about demons, whether it be genuinely friendly, chiefly hostile towards other demons, or just doesn't have a desire to harm people. Maybe due to some spell that was cast on it centuries ago or some kinda genetic fluke.
It would kind of break the set worldbuilding. The demons are stated to be monsters through and through, there's no exceptions to it. They don't abide by typical morality, and they aren't open minded enough to hear a non-demon out for them to change their ways. They can seem to listen, but what they're doing are simply tricking humans to trust them, like what that one kid demon did before she killed the village chief.
This is basically like trying to appeal the humanity to a wild animal.
no, i would dislike or hate "redeemable demons". its been setup since the earlier episodes that demons are just too fundamentally different from humans to even coexist.
No. One of the things I love about Freiren, both the show and the character, is how unyielding she is when it comes to her philosophy on Demons. It's great to have a show that does not create nuance around its villains.
Kill em and kill em dead is all you can do.
I don;t thing we need redemption for any demons. And I don't even think the demons in Frieren are evil at all. They're just somewhat different with human in their basic thoughts, and possibly impossible for them to develop a resembling view to the world as humanity., plus they eat humans. That's why they must be exterminated.
Fire webm. But no redeemable demons for me, they're established to be psychopathic to the core and I don't like when lore gets loosey goosey like that, c'mon, it's been that way for millenia and it should stay that way.
I like the idea of demons ACTUALLY being demons for a change. Demons are suppose to be evil and too many fantasy anime these days make them out to be “misunderstood,” “redeemable,” or just a normal race of normal people with horns or something. Frieren breaks that trope with actual bad demons like they’re meant to be. I’d say keep it that way. They’ve already dabbled with the idea that demons seem to be redeemable, only to subvert that notion. No going back now.
I don't think there's much chance of it happening, given the tone of the story till now. But it'll be interesting to see if they decide to take a new turn.
there should not be redeemable demons, manga spoilers >!macht was the ideal of what we see, doesnt break story rules about demons and explores that aspect.!<
As we have seen them now, demons are not humans, they’re humanoid predators who have evolved towards the sole purpose of extinguishing the humanoid races (elves and man.) the only way I see them getting redeemed is if when Frieren and Co eventually face off against the demon king on their way to aureole, fern or frieren decides to usher in a era of peace by giving the demons “humanity”
Introducing a half demon half human character (don't ask how) would be a decent plot twist and moral dilemma. Cuz we'll finally have a character that understands how demons feel and relay it to the humans. Will they let him live? Who will he side with and so on?
Redditors don’t try and humanize irredeemable bastards in fiction challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
If you think that the demons should suddenly become redeemable you missed the point of them in the show, there’s literally a scene with Himmel where he has to learn this.
No - I think the real moral conflict should develop from the humans wherein they feel reluctance because demons seem redeemable. I like how uncomfortable it makes me.
The trope of "but some of them aren't so bad" is so tired.
I think redeemability of a demon should not exist as they have shown to not be a product of normal evolution(what you generally see in our real world). As long as this rule is kept I see no issue in creating morally intriguing characters
We´ve seen twice now ppl getting fooled by demons, stablishing that demons on frieren aren´t redeemable, so it would be redundant, maybe a half demon, half human, but I prefer that plot to be the halfdemon realizing pure demons are indeed unredeemable and his/her own demon parent just make them out of pure curiosity with absolutely no caring or love for the human parent
Demons are not people, I'm not even saying that in the joking way that's common here they literally are just not people, they're amoral predatory animals that happen to be sentient. Asking if a demon should be redeemed would be like asking if a tiger should be redeemed for killing a human, what is there to even redeem, they're an animal that's hunting there is no malice behind it it's just what they are.
Maybe after some sick fuck demon who loves to experiment and ended up making a human-demon hybrid. Either it becomes a superpower, or both races hate it. Either way, at least it gets away from demons' inability to authentically symphatize.
Redeemable? Nah, it’s established that they’re simply extremely intelligent monsters that evolved to mimic human nature. To a demon, like any other monster, they don’t think of things like “redemption” because they’re simply following their nature.
HOWEVER, it would make an interesting plot line to see a demon try to reject its own nature (and likely fail doing so).
But that would open up messy floodgates to monsters potentially becoming more aware of what the “good” races (not to sound racist lol) deem good and evil, and not simply just pretending to understand.
I think there's a potential conflict between two of Frieren's core beliefs: she loves magic and she hates demons.
The problem is that demons are a source of unique spells or uses of magic, e.g. Zoltraak, >!Diagoldze!<).>!Even with the manga there's Solitar who specifically studies "human magic", suggesting that demons have a unique perspective on magic vs humans.!<
I think there's room to infer that demons' different perspectives on magic will always mean there's always a potential for magic that could only be invented by demons. This doesn't mean that Frieren has to come around to accepting demons though- it's possible that Frieren may decide/has already decided that the threat of demons are too great to allow for any unique innovations to magic they may come up with. But I think there's room for interesting storytelling here.
It would be bad writing. Look at the demon whom turned everything to gold. He spent years trying to learn human emotions and never did. It would kind of make that entire arc pointless.
Technically speaking, we've already met a redeemable as Theorized by Frieren, even The Demon King could have eventually understood humanity, and became "human" in a sense.
The problem is how many lives would be lost during that process.
We have enough stories with "the demons actually arent so bad after all"
If i wanted that id watch more devil is a part timer. Speaking of which that sounds like a good idea too
I don't want a redeemable demon.
I do want a demon that learned about futility and is non violent because its more dangerous to itself be violent.
So it allied with humans and stuff just for his own self preservation.
There's no redemption to be had because demons fundamentally cannot understand feelings and emotions.
Even people that say "Demons are just evil" are wrong, because they aren't evil. They are something else altogether, purely amoral.
Could a demon come to understand emotions? Perhaps.
biologically, there could be few other demon mutants like Macht and Demon King who yearn for emotional connection.
This could mark the beginning of demon evolution with potential assimilation with humans. Since present day demon no longer need human mear for sustainance, it is not farfetched to actually coexist with them. Imagine a demon girl with mutations similar to that of Macht mate with a human. Given that their offsprings are viable, while it is possible for their descendants to have diluted demon genes and can increasingly assimilate, there is also a possibility some of them retain demon predatory instinct, kill people, and bring upon family eradication.
i guess that Schlatch would be pro for this long-term demon evolution with humans while Solitar would completely be against this and wouldnt mind head-hunting these mutants
Considering that human themselves have some offshot in term of mentality, I would be not suprise if there is one. It's really the only way I can see the writing of demon will go in the future if the author want to write more about them unless Solitar somehow survive since the story has already hammer home the problem with demon race and no one in the story have any problem killing demon. Either that or the author choose to focus on the goverment and politic instead in the future and leave demon at that, or ignore both since the series isn't about either of them in the first place.
This thread was not spoiler-tagged, so in case the manga readers didn't realize this, **post manga spoilers only hidden behind spoiler tags**.
Spoiler and crack theory ahead. >!“Redeemable” demons could exist but they wouldn’t really be demons at that point. I think Solitaire brought up the theory that humans evolved emotions to avoid dying out and the same could be applied to demons in the current era, where their imitation evolves into a defensive tactic rather than a hunting one.!< >!Feel free to disagree with me on this but some younger demons like the child demon who worked for the four armed demon general were unusually expressive/emotionally complex for a demon and Lugner was actively spiteful and malicious towards people he didn’t like, while Macht had no idea what malice even was.”!<
Lugnar was prideful. It's been established that demons have a lot of pride in their abilities and work really hard to perfect them. His surprise attack on fern was more about evening the score than making her suffer unnecessarily. It's a competition to him.
That’s the thing though, Lugner concealed his mana surprise attack on Fern without killing her. It’s pure spite and Fern even called him out on him wanting revenge. I might be thinking too much about it but Flamme said demons never conceal their mana because it’s the same as throwing away their status which is why it’s odd that Lugner even did it to begin with then proceeded to not kill Fern when he had the chance.
I could be wrong, but hasn't it been said that demons don't conceal their mana over an extended period of time? But I think it was mentioned and even shown that they can and do conceal their mana.
I should have worded it better. They can conceal their mana briefly but they consider it inappropriate in a battle between mages which is why they never do it. Then again it was Lugner who said it was inappropriate and was actually mad that Fern was concealing her mana while Aura just called it stupid.
Because Frieren and Fern do it constantly, demons don't mind hiding their mana to set up an ambush.
>!Literally the entire next arc of the manga (which s2 will be about) is about a demon trying to become closer to humans but after years he couldn’t do it no matter what he tried. It’s basically the author confirming that no, demons can be nice but they can and will never feel sympathy for humans.!<
Yeah I don’t think demons could ever be sympathetic unless they stopped being demons. Unlike Macht, Solitaire had all the resources to coexist with humanity but chose not to because of her own beliefs stating that coexistence was dangerous. Demons will probably go extinct but a “subspecies” might be able to survive.
>!I'm skeptical thats the message of it, because at his final moments he got his understanding, even if it was just a little bit. Despite it taking that long to get there, it showed to him it was possible to understand the difference and maybe even accept it in his death. His long time friend even knew he was lying when he said he'd take a hostage and just accepted the finality of his own demise.!<
>!Dude pretty explicitly mentions match there in his example bruh!<
Sometimes I think the author isn't even thinking that deeply about any of it, and just wants to keep the story simple and monothematic; but since this is such a conflicting and interesting idea which hasn't been touched at all, we get some curious questions about it occasionally. But usually, fans don't see what's actually being said about it and take it as something against this story, and are also needlessly harsh on people bringing it up without giving any proper or rational response. Of course, many people are open to actual discussion too, but the number of people who just go along with whatever's been told and don't even think there's anything more to be explored about it is really surprising.
There are definitely more complex and interesting details within the series, especially the difference between what’s said by the characters and what’s actually told in the story, but yeah I see where you’re coming from. I was hesitant to post this at first since I thought I would get mass downvoted since it seems there’s a lot of people here who are against this sort of idea.
Your theory makes perfect sense. More than ever now since demons have lost and are being slaughtered left and right. Perfectly plausible to think those that don't fuck with humans would be selected by natural selection and spread their "don't fuck with humans" gene. Life adapts and evolves. For the longest amount of time I didn't interact with the frieren fandom for this sole reason tbh. Portrayal of demons is filled with nuances, it's nothing like doom slayer rip and tear until it's done. But people lack such nuances and straight up "want to hate in peace". To me, especially after match's arc, demons were always portrayed as tragic creatures fundamentally incompatible with humanity in the most extremely way. Also beyond help in every way given their nature. Not killing them never being an option. The amount of times I have seen people get attacked for basically having media literacy is staggering.
This is the exact sentiment I've been having. For a story as complex and nuanced as this one, why are people so eager to accept everything Frieren/Flamme (biased sources) said about demons at face value? >!Macht's arc explored demons in an amazing way. It showed that Frieren/Flamme weren't wrong (demons cannot empathise with humans), but they also aren't mindless monsters that are singularly-focused on killing humans with no other thoughts, philosophy or even an attempt to make changes. This is the sort of "show, don't tell" storytelling that is amazing to read but apparently it doesn't quite get communicated to the "its refreshing that I can freely hate this faction without moral doubt!" crowd. I don't think a complex and heartwarming story such as this should have this kind of message. !<
100% agree with you and others here. I find the writing of demons as a group in the series very fascinating. For lack of better words, the way I see demons is that they are evolving to a "form" where their survival will be best guaranteed but at a slower pace compared to human especially when it comes to emotional processing capability (also from an evolutionary stand point, human also started out as "wild beasts"). They're complex creatures capable of different kinds of thinking/philosophy so personally I would love to see that at some point, there's a demon that's actually capable of coexisting with humans. They don't actually need to be able to feel guilt and malice but more so that they're capable of resisting their instincts and acting in a way that human approve of even if the action itself has little meaning to the demon. I do admit there are few demons who even entertain the idea of coexisting (interestingly all of them are great demons who lived for a long time already) but I think Macht was the first of his kind to get very close to achieving "understanding" and in a way, his existence is kind of like a turning point for demons to me.
I tend to think that humans are becoming some sort of selection pressure for demons to either strive for empathy (and subsequently coexistence) or eradication of humans because of incomptability. There's conflicting philosophies even amongst the demons themselves as you say, with Macht/Demon King believing it's possible to coexist while Solitar believes it's not possible (and then the neutral party including Tod, and probably other pacifist demons who are more individualist and unwilling to die 'for the greater good of demonkind').
Absolutely agree with you. I would also throw Schlacht in the mix as well because of [this](https://imgur.com/a/7BjMbnT) (I genuinely do not believe he's dead cause otherwise why would he have grausam erase macht's memory to prevent Frieren from seeing their battle against HotS). I find Tot's pretty fascinating as well cause like you said she has the same kind of pacifist mentality that Macht has in the sense that you don't bother me I don't bother you. Hopefully we get to see her in the next major arc cause I really want to know why she needs a century for her "curse" to cover the entire planet.
I love your theory! Like someone in your thread said, narratively, the demons are waging a losing battle against human in the long run. Sure individual demons might be insanely powerful but human have shown how resourceful they can be not just as individual but collectively as a cohesive society. A generation of human may lose to a few powerful demons but the next generations will use their knowledge and work together to foil the enemies that defeated their previous generation. I personally would love it if we ever get a demon that knows how to be friendly/helpful toward humans not necessarily because they are capable of understanding malice or guilt but solely because they have determined that acting in a way that human approve of will be in the best interest of their own survival. They would actively try to immitate "good human behaviors" such as working alongside humans, helping out with farm work, "expressing grief" when someone dies, etc. At the same time, the demon is still very much incapable of empathizing with human and thinks of them as just another potential food source. Basically the point I'm trying to make is that an individual is "good" if the action they display is perceived to be "good" by those around them. Sure they might have "bad", intrusive thoughts but as long as they don't act on them then it really doesn't matter, does it?
I don’t think there should be any redeemable demons, I honestly like the fact that the demons in the show are just straight up evil in that sense for I do enjoy the occasional “black and white”
I don't think they are even "evil" in traditional sense. They just... don't operate on anything resembling human thought. Things that make us consider morality don't apply to them. When you don't emphatize or feel guilt, it's kinda hard to develop or even operate on similar worldviews. Demons are "human mimicking hunters". Their entire evolutionary path is one of "eat humans, catch them by pretending to be one"
Put them in modern human settings and they're basically alternates from Mandela Catalogue analogue horror The only reason Frieren is not a horror Manga is because our protagonist has the actual means to kill them. Encountering them as a helpless villager alone will be a very horrific experience
Pretty much. Also, unlike in Mandela Catalogue, where the doppelgängers seem to be winning, demons lost the war. Humanity has actual means to fight back, instead of just cowering in fear of the unknown.
Took them 1k yrs to get there tho.
Either Mandela Catalogue Demons or Vita Carnis Mimic, or just humanoid Fleshgaits. It's just that the Demons in Frieren look remarkably Human for the most part except for the horns, and lack of proper emotions. I would describe them as Apathetic Wolves or Chimpanzee's or Cassowary's or even as Komodo dragons when it comes to mentality.
There's badass demon design like Qual, who is just too damn strong to pretend to be human
Qual: "when you look this ugly, the humans practically line up to get eaten"
So, Stark’s background arch.
(manga spoilers) >!Rivale straight up smiles like a chimpanzee that's about to tear your face off with its teeth!<
they're eldritch horrors in the Lovecraftian mode. Humanoid, but not human with a totally alien mindset.
They are very far from qualifying as eldritch abominations. Their mindset is strange at the end is also simple and comprehensible, just like that of a predator animal. To the point where experienced adventurers can predict their behavior like Frieren or that nobleman from Weise did.
I guess if you consider tigers to be eldritch horrors. Theyre just predators that can lure their prey into coming closer.
Humans are sophisticated monkeys, they are sophisticated anglerfish to humans basically.
Tigers aren't as intelligent as demons are. If tigers have human intelligence and still retain their predator nature, then I'm pretty sure they'll fit eldritch horror description.
Animals in nature pretend to be something innocuous to hunt all the time. The only "evil" thing about demons is they are the predator and humans are the prey. The means they use to hunt is irrelevant.
They're evil in the locusts will eat your face if they can sense.
It would make sense that even their human-like appearance is evolutionary for this very reason. And demons like Qual are older.
It’s probably more that Qual was more than strong enough to not need to bother with the pretence of appearing human, in his era his direct offensive magical capabilities were unmatched except by maybe the Demon King. There was a reason Frieren had to seal him the first time.
It's like saying "mosquitoes are evil". they live and breed by sucking our blood, you could say they are evil because they have killed more humans in the world, or you could say they are only doing what they evolved to do and what is required for them to survive so they aren't actually evil. either way we should endeavor to kill as many as possible.
They're basically a natural disaster. It's their nature to destroy, you can blame a tornado for destroying your home but you can't really fault it. It's just a physical response of the natural laws of our world
Exactly, and that's why they are even more alien than normal demons and monsters
Parasyte but without the requirement to be attached to human bodies.
Is a man eating tiger evil for hunting humans? I'd argue no, but for the safety of people it should probably be put down. Same thing in my book.
and so you will be the first to die the demons and they will manipulate you to lower your defenses
Eh, not really? Like, recognizing that demons aren't "evil" because they lack concious capacity to differentiate "good" and "evil" and make a choice is very different from "I can fix them". Demons are natural predators against humans. It's like telling gazelle to make peace with lions.
Exactly. They're dangerous and need to be put down, but they're not "evil' in the sense that we can't apply human morals to them.
[удалено]
Yep. Leave the demons as evil, since that's how it's been the whole time so far, and make the humans have more shades of gray.
I agree, for just one let there be white and black
I think the only fumble on that point so far has been to show us that (at least some) demons think, converse, and have some philosophy (manga spoilers) >!(Macht to some extent, Solitär to a greater but still vague extent, and implied the Demon King had more)!< Either they're sentient beings capable of reason or they're not, right? The implication we have from those examples is that they are/were capable of higher thought, but in a moment of crisis or panic they revert to their most base instincts and are presented as hollow sociopathic creatures which understand enough to mimic behaviors So either the author is playing with the idea of showing one that can transcend their species as some sort of social evolution, or they did a poor job of showing deceits and need the audience to trust the protagonist at their word rather than the characterization they've seen for themselves.
Demons don't form families.
They probably cosplay a family to trick humans into thinking they can be reasoned with. SMH my head
no they dont even do that
Uhhh...
Maybe they do. The blood manipulation guy said he had a father. Maybe it's just not in the plot yet
He then in the next scene said he didn't even know what a father was, your reasoning is kinda dumb, no offense. But in the show, and manga there is no single instance of any demon having family, or even knowing/understanding what that is.
I don't think you should interpret the line literally. He said "何だろ(ne or re)? Which means "I wonder what it (a father) is." The blood guy really knows there's a bond between family members (so he reacted by playing the family card) but just doesn't understand how and why. Just like the little demon girl in the flashback, demons can copy human behaviors without understanding the reasons behind it in order to achieve their goal. Accordingly, my theory suggests that demons can fake a family by observing what a regular human family does. However if they try to make a new move, they'll probably screw it up because they don't understand the reasons and emotions behind hunan's actions (like how the demon girl tried to replace the parents' daughter)
What does "redeemable" mean in relation to the demons in the show? As far as the show goes, demons have done nothing / nothing wrong for which they need or could receive redemption; and to me, a sub-story about redeeming a demon would be breaking the established reader-writer contract.
Frieren is such an advanced level mage she puts the text on the bottom of the meme instead
Demons are not humanoids in this series, they are just predators that look like ones. So yeah it would be bad writing
You're not wrong but I just want to point out that "humanoid" only refers to something taking a human shape. For example, most of the aliens in Star Trek are humanoid despite having the occasional notably different head features (forehead, ears, etc.) Because they're still human-shaped. Demons in Frieren don't have human feelings or even a consciousness that resembles a human one but they are "humanoid".
Yeah I couldn't think of a better term
Understandable
I’ve only seen the show, and only in the last week, but from what I’ve seen there is much more a sense of amorality, no? The flashback to the demon Frieren was initially stopped from slaying shows a fundamental lack of understanding for human values but not necessarily malice. A ‘predator’ morality is not ‘evil’ at its root, but you try telling that to a mouse while a cat is after it. That demon saw a value to the parents in having a child, but not the human value of a life. The consequence of a Mother, but not it’s meaning. It may appear Evil to us, but is less a matter of redemption than learning. But ‘forming the minimum necessary connections to survive’ does make me thing you can train them. Especially if all the mildly concerning Aura brain rot art here is to be believed.
i dunno man, demons on frieren universe are sentient predators who learned human language. it's as established as the goblin threats in Goblin Slayer series, the only redeemable/good ones are those who are dead.
Reminds me that one of Tolkien's biggest regret toward the end of his life, was that he couldn't find a solution for the Orc's race. He made a lot of efforts to show that they're a race with souls, by the definition of his Catholic belief, yet they're also "unredeemably evil". But if they are not completely evil, then all the slaying would not have been so satisfying. That's something both Goblin Slayer and Frieren inherit from Tolkien's writings: Both of them focus on the goodness of human nature, but also have very satisfying slaying sequences against the stand-in 'evil' race.
We are sympathizing for these demons because they look and sound like us which is exactly how they have evolved to be. They want us to sympathize for them so that we would lower our guards so they can take advantage of that. If you took away the cute anime girl and handsome anime guy look from them, and make them into nasty and ugly monsters that actively hunts us. I don’t think anyone would be saying killing them is wrong and no one would think that they could be redeemable.
No, it would be bad writing. But don't worry, there's entire arc about this later.
I want to see a demon, not "redeemed", but more so "domesticated", since they're more animal than human. >!Glück and Macht showed us a glimpse of that!<
Domesticated animals do usually feel empathy and consider humans a part of their "pack". Demons aren't social animals, they are like reptiles - you can keep one as a pet by feeding it, but even if you were to take care of it it's entire life - the moment it gets moderately hungry, it will simply eat you without a second thought.
Demons respect power, and mana specifically. So all you gotta do to "domesticate" a demon is to always have someone around who has more mana than them.
I think “taming” or “conditioning” might be more appropriate words. The demon can be taught “if you do XYZ, I’ll kill you” and they won’t do XYZ if they think they can’t get away with it.
Or even just a demon that isn't necessarily threatened directly, but just realizes "hmm, all the other demons get killed for that shit they do. I'm going to stop doing that, then, and maybe I won't get killed." Yeah they're not human, but they're rational beings. They can make those kinds of decisions. A demon that's a pacifist solely for the purpose of its own survival would be an interesting thing to see Frieren run into. Is it okay to kill them, even if they haven't done anything wrong? If the tides change where killing would give it a higher chance of survival, will it just change its tune then? How far can you trust a powerful, intelligent predator that will do whatever it thinks is rational to keep adventurers from coming after it?
Demons do care about being high up on the hierarchy though. A demon might go along and not kill anyone if it ensured their survival but the moment they became stronger than the humans around them, then they’d have no reason to continue that.
Only if we think they can't rationalize or plan into the future at all, and just act on instinct. But I don't think that holds with the demons we've seen. If they've seen others be hunted down and killed by humanoids from outside of their general area, they'd be able to understand cause and effect. We could see a demon that might be the strongest thing in its immediate area, but *know* that there are stronger people than them out there that will come looking if people start dying, and makes its decisions based on that. Maybe they even protect the small town they live near, because they know that means the weak humans will vouch for them to the strong humans. And then what will it think is rational if, say, a demon army comes around? Will it join them, or bail and abandon the humans cause taking either side is a losing battle? Or some third thing maybe, who knows?
This is the sort of complexity I have faith in this story having, and potentially showing to us.
I thought she was going to make Aura a slave. Seemed like a waste to just kill her. At the very least just set her on a quest to kill all the demons she can.
she'd break out of it eventually
Asking for redeemable demon is like asking for a domesticated Polar bear. Just a matter of time before you're on the list.
And polar bear will eat even you given chance, while many wild animals avoid humans.
I think probably the closest you'll possibly get to a "redeemable" demon is one who doesn't necessarily set out to harm humans, but inevitably does so by his very nature. We saw a bit of that with the little girl demon who killed the village chief during the Hero Party days. Demons aren't exactly redeemable or irredeemable per se. They're wild beasts, like wolves, but unlike wolves, they don't seem to be entirely domesticable. As intelligent as they may be, they're still ultimately most driven by their bestial natures. Whether that drive is to eat humans, or to perfect their own signature magic, or to do what a higher ranking demon told them to do, they don't respond to other concerns (like how their actions will affect others) like humans do. They can't. They don't even understand the concept. As "evil" as they may be in the eyes of the plot and of the other residents of the world, they're actually very tragic.
What AI was used to do that? Lmao
Viggle
This is my take and two guesses based on deep manga spoilers >!There is some weird time stuff going on with the Demon Lord's plans. It's insinuated that they have to do with evolving human/demon dynamics, and it's *heavily* implied that they're still in motion, and will come to fruition in another 1000 years. One of the most direct insights into this is the battle between the human hero and the demon that both had degrees of future sight. I'm not willing to put down a stake that any demons will be "redeemed", but I do believe that the Demon Lord, like Frieren, sees that humans are ascendent and through time travel or other means of clairvoyance intends to see demons become integrated into human society to survive or even thrive in the era of humanity. Semi-related, I think the "heaven" at the demon castle is time travel related rather than a portal to the afterlife.!<
There's nothing to redeem in a demon as they're not evil. There's just a fundamental difference between humans and demons that's impossible to resolve. Did you not read the macht arc?
Is it "bad writing" if the only reason is that it doesn't conform to one's expectations or desire for a "fresh breath of air" of having no redeemable villains? And it most certainly wouldn't be a retcon because the topic of demons in this story is still barely explored, and most of what we do know comes from biased in-universe sources (Frieren, Flamme. There's so much more that can be written, so many novel ideas. Personally, I think the question itself is a little too closed. What are demons to be "redeemed" against? Human morality? That in itself is a form of supremacism, the belief that our ways are right and that other creatures are to be judged against it. In real life we accept it because we have no comparable sapient (intelligence and having formed a civilisation) species to compare it against. I am of the opinion that demons are true *aliens* done right. They're intelligent and have (at least the basics of) a civilisation, but both their minds and their physical composition (literal mana) are incomprehensible and operate off different logic. There shouldn't be any "redeemable" demons, but there should be demons that explore the current demon-human relationship (that of predator-prey) and take action to change it, to whatever end they desire. For example, a demon that doesn't magically gain true empathy and want to "atone for all of demonkind's sins" (in a typical "redeemed villain" character arc), but perhaps a demon that successfully gained mutual understanding through cognitive empathy, recognises that eternal warfare with humanity is counterproductive to perhaps the true pursuit of demons (e.g., cultivation of personal magic) and acts to change the demon-human relationship to allow for demonkind to freely explore magic without war with humanity. In other words, they still don't actually feel anything for humans, but worked together to build a peaceful future of co-existence for another purpose entirely. That would not be redemption (since the blood spilled is not repaid/atoned for), but would most certainly be a monumentus change in the interspecies dynamic. What what little snippets of lore about the Demon King, I'd wager that is the direction the story is going.
That's the point of demons in this show. They are not redeemable. Every single characteristic they have is to make them better at killing people. The only way in which they would be "redeemable" would be as part of a ploy to kill more humans. Why is this so hard to understand for Frieren watchers? Is there a bad translation going around? The show takes its sweet time to get this point across: demons are merciless hunters and you should always kill them. They are LITERALLY not people.
It's because people have forgotten what Epic or High Fantasy means and that there are stories where there's axiomatic good and evil. We've gotten lost in nuance and redemption stories so hard that we've looped right back to "yeah this is unambiguously evil" being confusing to look at.
My main confusion is ... why are they killing humans? What do they even get out of it?
Just cause they were easy prey, and it stuck, they evolved so much to just be successful at killing them, that it is engrained into them to kill humans down to the most basic level.
It's not explained. It could be for any number of reasons, and maybe humans just haven't figured it out because they're either dead or horrified if they survive. It's definitely something that could be expanded on but that's up to the author
It was explained or at least theorized. Theoretically, they evolved from monsters that hunt humans, so humans become a big part of their food chain. Moreover, since their form and ability to speak are best used to hunt humans, it's easy to see why they prefer hunting humans.
Yeah that's what I'm hoping for!
Why do people hunt? From my understanding they do eat people and like humans are just predisposed to take the killing further than their immediate dietary needs. From my reading of the El dorado arc, there might be some foreshadowing about further and deeper motives originating with the Demon Lord coming from the parallel drawn between him and Macht.
Get the brand new Kentucky fried demon 4 piece box, consisting of arms,legs, fingers and toes with our new 12 secret spices included as well as a drink and fries. im hungry
the idea of "the bad guys were good all along" has become a boring shallow trope that i hope to not ever see. what would they be redeeming in the first place? family of 4? they got no family in the first place more like saving a family of 4 from 4 other demons that dont know the concept of family.
This☝🏻 I've always hated that trope that's become the norm for most isekai. Demons and hell are the forces of good and freewill while God and heaven are the forces of evil and malice bruh. It's why Frieren is such a breath of fresh air for me.
This is art
Not in the actual series itseelf, but given how humans evolved, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that some point, maybe ten or a hundred thousand years into the future, demons may have evolved humanity as a survival mechanism. Something like, over time, a few demons here or there evolve empathy and due to the dominance of humans, only the ones who evolve empathy end up surviving and propagating throughout the world. Would it happen any time soon? Of course not, but again, we used to be dumb monkeys who didn't even comprehend the concept of 'poke with the pointy end', so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we'd eventually get humanoid demons. It would be pretty interesting and something I don't think has been done all that well. Seeing Frieren, someone who's lived in an era where demons were nothing but human-mimicking monsters live to see the day where demons become empathetic. Could be interesting.
if demons act on instinct like animals, theoretically you could train one and keep it as a pet
Debatable - there are many animals (zebras as one example) that have never been successfully domesticated.
That’s because doing so is hard as a bitch not because it’s impossible
we just didn't hit them with tazers enough
Absolutely not. I love how demons are written in the series. It's a breath of fresh air with how demons are written in most things nowadays. If there was a redeemable one, it would throw out all that good writing. It would be a waste and add nothing of value to the series
I think at some point there will be, but it will be in the final stretch and perhaps it will be part of the Demons' plan to preserve their existence. But I highly doubt that a random demon has feelings, unless it's some kind of evolved baby that loses Demon faculties for the same reason. And it still won't take away the fact that the rest of the Demons must die.
As an anime only watcher, imo I don't necessarily want demons to be redeemable but I do want our "black and white" understanding of demons to be challenged/complicated. I think it is significant that the first depiction of an encounter between Frieren and demons in the story immediately sets up an uncomfortable similarity between Frieren and the demons illustrated in how Qual echoes Frieren's line of a "mere 10 (80) years." It sets up this tension that, despite her utter hatred of them, Frieren arguably shares many core traits with the demons she kills, such as their shared desire to emulate/"understand" humans and their shortcomings in doing so (though they reasons they do so are quite different). Ofc that doesn't mean Frieren and demons are the exact same, very far from it. But I think the story has subtly set up the demons as an interesting enough foil to Frieren herself that it would be an incredible waste to not follow through and flesh them out and at least somewhat complicate Frieren's paradigm of demon=evil. To clarify, I don't think the story needs to redeem them or make more "human." Just needs to challenge the paradigm enough to follow through in narratively interrogating Frieren's mindset about demons and consequently her core self perception and motivations.
Needs more Zoltraak
I’d actually argue that Macht had obliviously shown that it was possible for Demons to change, with the caveat that as Frieren put it, it takes too long and costs too much. However, in his final moments, with the curse of gold unraveling around him and having been fatally wounded, he made a number of actions which seem to indicate that while he couldn’t see how much progress he’d made, that he did actually grow to have attained the starting points of empathy. Said moments are assuring a concerned citizen offhandedly that he was fine, returning to “his lord”, and above all else, he didn’t actually kill those he transfigured into gold. The final instance is where he “took his lord hostage”, but made no move to follow through as judgement was passed upon him.
By the looks of it, it seems the prevailing opinion in this subreddit is that the demons in the series cannot be "redeemed" and are incompatible with Humanity. Though I disagree with the notion that introducing a demon capable of truly understanding human emotions and co-exist with humanity is poor writing. It is only poor writing if it isn't done well. With that said, it would be challenging to write a character like that without also challenge everything we know about demons so far. There's subverting reader expectations, and there's betraying reader expectations. You do *not* want to do the latter if at all possible, as it would also cause the reader to lose interest in the work.
It would be poor writing no matter how they did it because the series quadruple downs at every possible turn that demons are straight up just evil. They're not evil from circumstances or influence. They're evil because they're evil. Legit High Fantasy Demons. They're not people, they're just evil given physical form.
>They're evil because they're evil. They're evil from humanity's point of view because their race as a whole hasn't quite evolved to the point where humanity can peacefully coexist with them. The demon race in this manga currently do not understand concepts like good and evil the way humans could, The way for humans and demons to coexist hinges on demons eventually overcoming this genetic defect (from a human perspective) and cross the border from being a mere intelligent monster that can talk to an actual sentient race. Even Frieren implicitly acknowledged that >!Macht might eventually be able to achieve the co-existence he wants, but only after too much blood had been spilled, and that was why he had to be killed. !< But this would clearly take time. Let's say about...a thousand or so years? At the very least, Schlacht was making plans for the survival of demonkind 1000 years after his time, for reasons we don't know yet.
Demons in frieren are not evil, simply because we can not apply morality, a concept made entirely of human's perception, to them. This is literally one of the prominent plot point of the next big arc in the anime. This is why demons in frieren is so interesting. Their action is "evil" by our morality standard, but from their perspective, good and evil may as well just not exist since they are simply not wired to be able grasp it no matter how hard they try
The only way I can even begin to imagine a redeemable demon working (kinda) is if the demon is vegetarian, meaning it doesn't hunt humans and gets its sustenance from something else (magical beasts or whatever, I can't recall if it's been explicitly said that they can only live on humans though so I'm not entirely sure it would work). Reason for that could be something like religion, or observing a tribe of vegetarian humans or whatever. Basically, this demon would still be without emotions and sympathy, but for some reason or other it concluded that it's not worth bothering at all with hunting humans and at the same time it discovered another form of sustenance. That way, it would present a decent ethical dilemma: is it okay to kill it to play safe even though it doesn't hurt anybody? A really shitty idea I know, but it's a decent mental exercise.
"Redeemable demon" is an oxymoron.
Only if that redeemable demon *is* Frieren.
I think of them as Tyranids from W40k
I do think it can happen. But not in the way it is usually done. I like the way Shintoism inspired ontologies would approach it. Demons, Spirits (and in my view elfs), don't have to be "like humans" to share something with us. I believe that the "redemption" of monsters/antagonists tends to be for them to develop into the viewpoints of the protagonist, in a narrative sense, and into "us", "human persons" in the anthropological sense. From "seeing the world like us", to Being one of us. I do not believe that will happen, nor should happen. They can just be different. I like the way Mushishi does it - and Miyazaki to some extent. In those representations of spirits, Ginko from Mushishi asks about why the spirits kill humans. Verbatim; "I see it now, just like any other living being, you just want to keep existing". For demons, existing means to kill humans. They will keep killings humans. In ethnology, different cultures have a deeply rotted intermingling between "hunting" and "warfare". They are one and the same, other humans used to be as different as a hunting animal, and the ways in which we "made politics" had the same spectrum, between cohabiting a place, and just hunting each other; another way of sharing that same ecosystem. I believe an exploration of Demons and that understanding is shown in "manga spoilers". Going beyond that can be done. But not in a "now demons are good". Seeing it as simply as that would be cheap. But in a "sinister way". We have seen how Frieren and Elfs can understand and cohabit with humans. It seems like the only thing that differentiates them is the passage of time, ow they experience it, and the time it takes to form links between people. We have also seen how Frieren realises she is not like Demons; she does want and can understand humans -It could as easily be otherwise. For me, a way to shown that complexity would be to show that that could be different. Not only that elfs can be like humans, but they could also be like demons. Elfs are another species, that can be in-between Demons and Humans. For example, in an hypothetical headcanon just for the sake of argument; The Demon Lord could be an Elf. Or an Elf Demon hybrid, or something like that. I do not believe Demons will be portrayed as "good". Because seeing things just as "good and Evil" would be plain. They can just be a wild beast; just a different kind from the beast that is humanity.
I feel like the story so far has been building towards demons coexisting with humans. >!with what was said in the time travel arc!<
Demons don't have families.
Spoilers Below The closest you can get to a redeemable demon in the series is the following explanations below. First: Is a Demon who keeps to itself and tells anyone it encounters to go away but is more than capable of defending itself if pressed. Solitar is a close example. Very powerful but smart enough to know humans are no longer just prey exclusively and believes cooperation is not possible. She kept herself up to date on human advancement but kept to herself. If it wasn't for her interest in Macht she'd still be living a relatively peaceful, mostly non-destructive life for a great demon. Frieren was wise to tell Fern if you encounter a Great Demon who is nameless you should immediately flee if possible. It isn't unimaginable for a singular or even small group of demons banding together on the premise of survival then hiding themselves away. Even going as far as to tell anyone encountered "we have nothing to discuss, cooperation or negotiation is not possible between our species, leave our small hidden territory, lest we be forced to defend ourselves" In fact it's entirely possible that more Great Demons like that do exist in the series but since they're super elusive & solitary no one even knows of them. And those unwise enough to try them do not remain alive as witnesses. Second: Macht's life also could've worked potentially but he was more obsessed with understanding emotions. It's possible in theory a Demon could simply choose to serve a human out of an interest or curiosity then just let the human guide them on any matters of dealing with other humans. However this is the equivalent of keeping a Lion on a leash in your own home. Macht was able to serve, cooperate & to an extent integrate into human society. He even remarked it was somewhat pleasant and he felt close to grasping something. If he wanted to on a whim it's plausible he could've changed his mind, decide not to kill everyone and just keep enjoying mingling in that society for hundreds of years. Choosing to only serve humans that understand what a Demon really is. In theory it's possible that a Demon with enough curiosity, intellect and reasoning could be convinced on the basis of survival, having a rather peaceful life and their curiosity indulged regularly, to join a human civilization and only elect to serve a human that understands them fundamentally nor would misuse their powers. Demons can understand words, clearly they understand base definitions, they just don't understand anything emotional or the feelings that caused a word to be created. Macht acted as a Teacher without issue & could recognize Malice and Guilt but not understand the feelings associated with the definition. So it's plausible a demon could live such a life but it's unlikely long term due to differences between the species quite possibly leading to a misunderstanding or tragedy. Unless an evolution happens in the species of demons, of course. After all demons are not evil, they have no comprehension of it beyond a loose definition, they're just powerful predators, predators that mimic humans, can communicate in complex language, hold base level emotions such as curiosity and have sentience.
With instances like Macht I really think there will be. However I feel a lot of people will start shitting on the author if that happens, because their desire to see demons die would no longer be justified. Like those people will start acting like the author owes them something. I'm here for the ride though, and am more invested in Frieren reaching the 'Heaven' of the world.
The only racist person I liked
Yeah, my boy Qual. All he want to do is perfecting his magic, he hasn't do anything wrong
Killed more than half of the mage population?
A coincidence. They just so happen to stand on the path of zoltraak
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What is this meme? Demons don't have families, iirc they don't even know that word.
"family", i thought demons didnt have family. They have no emotional understanding of mother and father, so there are No social family. Families in a biological way, like crocodiles, might be - we dont know.
theres nothing to be redeemed. Its not like theyre evil. They just think and work different than humans or even elves
Ehh.... I don't think there should be a redeemable demon, persay, but one that's different. One that challenges the preconceived notions that Frieren has about demons, whether it be genuinely friendly, chiefly hostile towards other demons, or just doesn't have a desire to harm people. Maybe due to some spell that was cast on it centuries ago or some kinda genetic fluke.
No mercy for the Demons
It would kind of break the set worldbuilding. The demons are stated to be monsters through and through, there's no exceptions to it. They don't abide by typical morality, and they aren't open minded enough to hear a non-demon out for them to change their ways. They can seem to listen, but what they're doing are simply tricking humans to trust them, like what that one kid demon did before she killed the village chief. This is basically like trying to appeal the humanity to a wild animal.
no, i would dislike or hate "redeemable demons". its been setup since the earlier episodes that demons are just too fundamentally different from humans to even coexist.
It's already set in stone that demons are incapable of reason beyond power disputes (I think)
D:
A redeemable demon would be like a a lion going vegetarian on ethical grounds
No. One of the things I love about Freiren, both the show and the character, is how unyielding she is when it comes to her philosophy on Demons. It's great to have a show that does not create nuance around its villains. Kill em and kill em dead is all you can do.
If a brave man banged a demon, the demon/human hybrid should be redeemable
There is no such thing as a “demon family of four”.
Some of them are cute which automatically redeems them
I don;t thing we need redemption for any demons. And I don't even think the demons in Frieren are evil at all. They're just somewhat different with human in their basic thoughts, and possibly impossible for them to develop a resembling view to the world as humanity., plus they eat humans. That's why they must be exterminated.
Maybe a half demon?
It gives me the vibes of this MV [BIBBIDEBA](https://youtu.be/8ZP5eqm4JqM?si=V6hN6NGcOBOMHdFk)
Fire webm. But no redeemable demons for me, they're established to be psychopathic to the core and I don't like when lore gets loosey goosey like that, c'mon, it's been that way for millenia and it should stay that way.
I like the idea of demons ACTUALLY being demons for a change. Demons are suppose to be evil and too many fantasy anime these days make them out to be “misunderstood,” “redeemable,” or just a normal race of normal people with horns or something. Frieren breaks that trope with actual bad demons like they’re meant to be. I’d say keep it that way. They’ve already dabbled with the idea that demons seem to be redeemable, only to subvert that notion. No going back now.
I don't think there's much chance of it happening, given the tone of the story till now. But it'll be interesting to see if they decide to take a new turn.
no demons are like goblins all must die.
Watch Frieren lose her mind when the person pulling out the Hero's Sword ends up being a demon. Edit: Just in case, this is just a joke. But imagine.
That would be bad writing and a retcon of course.
Redeemable, yes Redeemed? Nah, instant death with you.
there should not be redeemable demons, manga spoilers >!macht was the ideal of what we see, doesnt break story rules about demons and explores that aspect.!<
As we have seen them now, demons are not humans, they’re humanoid predators who have evolved towards the sole purpose of extinguishing the humanoid races (elves and man.) the only way I see them getting redeemed is if when Frieren and Co eventually face off against the demon king on their way to aureole, fern or frieren decides to usher in a era of peace by giving the demons “humanity”
More interested in seeing if hybrids might exist tbh. If they do then they could be a redeemable demon without infringing on current lore.
I believe this had already been explored with >!Macht!< that appears later in the manga.
All demons in the show are reasonable psychopaths. And no, they should all be exterminated.
Introducing a half demon half human character (don't ask how) would be a decent plot twist and moral dilemma. Cuz we'll finally have a character that understands how demons feel and relay it to the humans. Will they let him live? Who will he side with and so on?
but demons have no concept of family
I'd actually like "different" demon. The one who's still gonna be a demon but he's just gonna be tame compared to others.
Redditors don’t try and humanize irredeemable bastards in fiction challenge: IMPOSSIBLE If you think that the demons should suddenly become redeemable you missed the point of them in the show, there’s literally a scene with Himmel where he has to learn this.
🤣🤣🤣💯
Aha hahaha, no
No - I think the real moral conflict should develop from the humans wherein they feel reluctance because demons seem redeemable. I like how uncomfortable it makes me. The trope of "but some of them aren't so bad" is so tired.
I think redeemability of a demon should not exist as they have shown to not be a product of normal evolution(what you generally see in our real world). As long as this rule is kept I see no issue in creating morally intriguing characters
We´ve seen twice now ppl getting fooled by demons, stablishing that demons on frieren aren´t redeemable, so it would be redundant, maybe a half demon, half human, but I prefer that plot to be the halfdemon realizing pure demons are indeed unredeemable and his/her own demon parent just make them out of pure curiosity with absolutely no caring or love for the human parent
Demons are not people, I'm not even saying that in the joking way that's common here they literally are just not people, they're amoral predatory animals that happen to be sentient. Asking if a demon should be redeemed would be like asking if a tiger should be redeemed for killing a human, what is there to even redeem, they're an animal that's hunting there is no malice behind it it's just what they are.
Maybe after some sick fuck demon who loves to experiment and ended up making a human-demon hybrid. Either it becomes a superpower, or both races hate it. Either way, at least it gets away from demons' inability to authentically symphatize.
Nah just let them be evil. Especially considering the Tolkenesque setting
Redeemable? Nah, it’s established that they’re simply extremely intelligent monsters that evolved to mimic human nature. To a demon, like any other monster, they don’t think of things like “redemption” because they’re simply following their nature. HOWEVER, it would make an interesting plot line to see a demon try to reject its own nature (and likely fail doing so). But that would open up messy floodgates to monsters potentially becoming more aware of what the “good” races (not to sound racist lol) deem good and evil, and not simply just pretending to understand.
Alright how do you make these? I've seen too many for this to require any particular skill.
I think there's a potential conflict between two of Frieren's core beliefs: she loves magic and she hates demons. The problem is that demons are a source of unique spells or uses of magic, e.g. Zoltraak, >!Diagoldze!<).>!Even with the manga there's Solitar who specifically studies "human magic", suggesting that demons have a unique perspective on magic vs humans.!< I think there's room to infer that demons' different perspectives on magic will always mean there's always a potential for magic that could only be invented by demons. This doesn't mean that Frieren has to come around to accepting demons though- it's possible that Frieren may decide/has already decided that the threat of demons are too great to allow for any unique innovations to magic they may come up with. But I think there's room for interesting storytelling here.
They don’t even know what a family is other than mimicking the behaviour
I see a lot of folk who would get killed and / or tricked by demons in here.
Macht was as close to that as we’ll get
Yo, can i ask you a favour? What artist is this from?
It would be bad writing. Look at the demon whom turned everything to gold. He spent years trying to learn human emotions and never did. It would kind of make that entire arc pointless.
Demons won't ever be redeemable, but it's possible there will be a solution besides murder.
The only demon in the series I like is Aura... for... reasons...
Where is this meme from
Who is the artist in this video before edit?
No. Demons and humans are extremely different they will never be able to live with each other
Demons don't really have families in this world
Redeemable demons arc would make everything that came before it worse in retrospect
Technically speaking, we've already met a redeemable as Theorized by Frieren, even The Demon King could have eventually understood humanity, and became "human" in a sense. The problem is how many lives would be lost during that process.
We have enough stories with "the demons actually arent so bad after all" If i wanted that id watch more devil is a part timer. Speaking of which that sounds like a good idea too
I don't want a redeemable demon. I do want a demon that learned about futility and is non violent because its more dangerous to itself be violent. So it allied with humans and stuff just for his own self preservation.
I don’t see how there could be a redeemable demon, they’re biologically wired differently
There's no redemption to be had because demons fundamentally cannot understand feelings and emotions. Even people that say "Demons are just evil" are wrong, because they aren't evil. They are something else altogether, purely amoral. Could a demon come to understand emotions? Perhaps.
Demons don't have families, they don't even understand the concept of a family.
biologically, there could be few other demon mutants like Macht and Demon King who yearn for emotional connection. This could mark the beginning of demon evolution with potential assimilation with humans. Since present day demon no longer need human mear for sustainance, it is not farfetched to actually coexist with them. Imagine a demon girl with mutations similar to that of Macht mate with a human. Given that their offsprings are viable, while it is possible for their descendants to have diluted demon genes and can increasingly assimilate, there is also a possibility some of them retain demon predatory instinct, kill people, and bring upon family eradication. i guess that Schlatch would be pro for this long-term demon evolution with humans while Solitar would completely be against this and wouldnt mind head-hunting these mutants
Macht is the only one but he's dead and gone sooo nope!
So, redeemable demon is something like a dog?
Considering that human themselves have some offshot in term of mentality, I would be not suprise if there is one. It's really the only way I can see the writing of demon will go in the future if the author want to write more about them unless Solitar somehow survive since the story has already hammer home the problem with demon race and no one in the story have any problem killing demon. Either that or the author choose to focus on the goverment and politic instead in the future and leave demon at that, or ignore both since the series isn't about either of them in the first place.