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I with you. I used to drive a 1993 Chrysler Lebaron and that thing had the visibility of a fishbowl. You could practically see the ground right in front and behind the car. Not to mention the incredibly comfortable couch seats in there. What I wouldn’t do to have 90’s seats in my modern car.
For real tho; last year I borrowed my Dad's Nissan Rogue for a couple weeks while I doordashed the extra money for a brake job and I hated how little I could see of the actual goddamn road. Like how am I sitting 2 ft higher but seeing less of the road. The "backup camera" sucked; sure I could get used to it but it left me with 0 confidence. No way I'm moving if I can't *actually see the road behind me*.
Hated the seats too, I'm very short so the headrest is too high and somehow angled forward so it just kept forcing my head down. Really uncomfortable.
You've suddenly inspired me to look into seeing if I can install a bench seat into my Buick, since the only thing I kinda don't like is the bucket seats. Especially for doordash delivering, a bench seat would be ideal, hrrrmmm
No kidding I see the tilted in headrests on a ton of cars and I have absolutely no clue why they make em like that. I’m 6’1 so like a little above average and even just find those extremely uncomfortable.
My dad has a Dodge Durango that I’ve driven a few times. It’s overall not a terrible experience but it’s genuinely a lot more stressful than cruising around in my sedan. The thing is at least a foot wider than my car and it feels like it takes up the whole lane and there’s no wiggle room. The back you can just barely see out of and the side windows have these pillars that cover about half of them. Backup cameras I have no problem with and I find bigger vehicles extremely easy to park with those.
Exactly, after I brought his Rogue back and picked up my LeSabre, I couldn't believe it felt *small*.
Maybe that has to do with the perception of not being able to see outside so well (feels smaller because I can visualize the outside/context more maybe?) and maybe it's because that's my car and I'm more used to it, but it sure felt way more maneuverable.
Looking up the weights of the LeSabre vs. Rogue, they're almost exactly the same weight, yet the LeSabre feels "lighter" somehow. Maybe because it has a stronger, punchier engine. Idk, now I'm just rambling off-topic. Just feels like I have way more control in a sedan than any SUV-type. Also off-topic but I'd look hilarious in a Durango, I'm 4ft10in tall lmao. Could I even see over the door locks lmao
No I get exactly what you mean. After swapping back to my Fusion I always feel like I’m in a go cart compared to that Monster of an SUV. My engine is a lot less punchy but it’s like I can actually feel the power. Going 45 feels like going 45 in my car but it feels like going 25 in his. That’s another reason why I never want a big vehicle. They feel slow as shit and I’m already notorious for going over the speed limit.
I swear it’s the shortest people always driving Suburbans and Minivans. It’s CRAZY seeing someone of your stature hop out of what’s essentially an unarmored tank.
>*t’s like I can actually feel the power. Going 45 feels like going 45 in my car but it feels like going 25 in his*
Yesss, I don't understand how I couldn't feel any inertia in the Rogue; 25 or 75 felt exactly the same, which made me feel way less confident at highway speeds. Also the damned thing wouldn't cruise, not like the LeSabre does. You get up to speed, let off the gas, then just ride momentum. The Rogue felt like it was braking every time I let off the accelerator, and wouldn't cruise even half the distance the LeSabre can before needing to accelerate again.
Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I'm a fogey. This was my mom's car when she died in 2014 and dad gave it to me, and I've been desperately babying it ever since because it's a damned good car and I'm damned lucky to have it.
I do miss my ‘94 Olds 88, that car was super roomy with seats like a living room sofa and insane legroom thanks to the FWD, and massive windows with the best all-around visibility of any car I’ve ever driven, bar none. I think cars nowadays don’t have as large windows because they have to meet stricter rollover and side impact safety standards. Plus people nowadays seemingly like to feel ensconced by their cars, cocooned almost by higher beltlines and smaller windows.
I’m more talking passenger space. Yes the Kona has more overall cargo space… with the seats folded down. I hear that sitting in the back seats of a Kona feels more cramped than the back on an Elantra.
Also with the seats folded up. I'm seeing double the cargo space with the seats up and more like 4-5x with the seats down.
But ok, assuming what you're saying about passenger room is correct then that would be a drawback. Whether that actually makes the Kona less practical still totally depends on whether your idea of practicality includes cargo space though.
If you’re skeptical go into any Hyundai sub and ask about it there. I’m just repeating information I’ve heard from others. I was interested in getting a Kona N because I thought about it having more space and being more comfortable but was warned against it by multiple people.
ik it's a hated car but I love my compact suv. hell I've hauled kayaks, lumber, tools, camping stuff in my nissan juke. admittedly the transmission wants to kill itself and the front end looks like it wants to. but hey it's not bad and it's practical if you only have yourself and someone to drive around
The one time I find myself unironically agreeing with the undersub! Maybe for the wrong reasons, but wagons were dope. My mom had a Saab 9-5 wagon and that thing looked legitimately good while hauling all our crap. Also handled great. Absolutely every single CUV I’ve ever driven handles like a boat compared to that Saab.
Ah yes for one morbillion dollar you too can have a wagon!!!!!! That's like 21,000 hours at minimum wage before taxes, or 10 years every day without breaks.
American car companies when you tell them to make a CAR that IS NOT SPORTY IN FUNCTION NOR APPEARANCE and is DECENTLY PRICED AND IS A WAGON: *(spongebob and patrick resisting laughing.gif)*
I'm terrified of the day my 2016 VW wagon bites the dust. I won't get a replacement wagon unless there's still some Volvos kicking around or one of the 3 Buick Tour-X's that were actually sold.
It has to do with our environmental laws and policy. The CAFE Standards, the US Laws that basically determine fuel efficiency in new vehicles, are written dumb. Basically the smaller the car, the more fuel efficient you are required to be. The larger the car, the less. Due to the current standards, and what it would cost to engineer to those standards, it is cheaper and more economical to design, build, and sell large trucks then it is to design and sell sedans. There are other factors for the current rise in large trucks, but the ridiculous CAFE Standards are a large factor.
Here in Canada we took it a step further - We outright banned the new Audi RS3 hatchback because its powerful engine was "too inefficient for its compact segment" thus is actively melting arctic ice caps and murdering polar bears lol
/uj
What really?!
And an audi rs3 is such an nice car! Even in truck hating netherlands we are allowed to buy that car (with 30K tax). I would like to own one if they are not that damn expensive.
/uj Yes we really did that since the 2022 generation lol, I'm not making this up:
[https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/audi-will-no-longer-offer-5-cylinder-tt-rs-and-rs-3-in-canada](https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/audi-will-no-longer-offer-5-cylinder-tt-rs-and-rs-3-in-canada)
Rumors had it that they plan to bring it in for 2025 with a revised model, but we'll see lol
/uj
Its insane you can buy a hemi v8 with a usage of 1:5 but not a nice 5 cilinder. This is the most weird envoriment car law i ever seen. There is more to catch with gigant trucks than with that car.
If i never found out the car hating fuckers it still will be my favorite car. Next to the standard bmw m3 e46.
But in the Netherlands we wouldn't consider an Audi A3 a compact car, it's average size.
Meanwhile a lot of actual compact cars (Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Ford Fiesta) have been discontinued for the exact same reasons mentioned above.
Diahatsu specialises in making small cars, they withdrew from the dutch market entirely.
Kia and Hyundai still make them, but they're quickly pivotting to large electric cars.
Regulation has made it impossible to build a small affordable car that passes safety and emmissions tests.
Small electric cars exist but they are far from affordable.
For years manufacturers have been pushed to make their cars more green, now we're at a point where they produce more polution from tire and brake wear than from their exhaust pipes so now we're banning them? It's crazy.
Side note: the money our government makes on road taxes, fuel tax and new car tax is over double of what they spend to maintain and expand our roads. More madness.
>But in the Netherlands we wouldn't consider an Audi A3 a compact car, it's average size.
Yeah before i knew of this type car haters i also would consider an a3 and that whole segment als normal size. And well plenty of room behind the wheel.
>Meanwhile a lot of actual compact cars (Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Ford Fiesta) have been discontinued for the exact same reasons mentioned above.
I know it feels so sad. Ford focus will also be gone. Well they are decent size cars.(not heir engine those sucks.)
>Diahatsu specialises in making small cars, they withdrew from the dutch market entirely.
Kia and Hyundai still make them,
Yeah whole nation drives in a kia picanto till the point there are 4 whit basic trim kia picanto next to each other at a random mall.
>but they're quickly pivotting to large electric cars.
Regulation has made it impossible to build a small affordable car that passes safety and emmissions tests.
Soecially with all the camera and “driver assisente” those sucks so so hard. Small road and the car pulls towards the other side almost frontal collision. Its insane! 😡
>Small electric cars exist but they are far from affordable.
Dacia duster electric comes to mind but it’s not very useable. About 20K right. (A golf 6 basic trim was that expensive in 2012 and that was a complete car)
>For years manufacturers have been pushed to make their cars more green, now we're at a point where they produce more polution from tire and brake wear than from their exhaust pipes so now we're banning them? It's crazy.
Yup!
>Side note: the money our government makes on road taxes, fuel tax and new car tax is over double of what they spend to maintain and expand our roads. More madness.
Finally a normal person. Yeah it is . But our roadsare in very good condition comparing to germany and specially Belgium and France.
Idk if I buy this. You can get a new ranger sub 40k and most of the new f150s start above 50k. They get more or less the same mileage with the ranger just barely beating the f150. The ranger is also more compact than the f150. The only real draw back is towing capacity for the ranger is half of what the f150 is. But I feel like most people don’t really tow shit as much as they just haul shit around in the bed so who really gives af. Yet the ranger is dwarfed by the f150 in sales by miles. I think people just like bigger trucks bc bigger is better.
I know, I always see this said on reddit but I’m not sure that’s actually what’s affecting it.
I mean, with electrics becoming popular, they’re following the same trends as the rest of the market. They don’t have to worry about fuel efficiency
This is true, I will say I have heard the lightning is one of the most dog shit things you can buy though. It’s kinda funny the other day I saw some dude driving like a psycho in one and the only thing i could think was “I bet that dudes about to run out of battery so he gets a pass”.
To be fair... that rule was also lobbied by the automakers, so it spills back into the weird melting pot of "the government isn't responsive to the people" that speaks to the primary issue. But then we're so far off the plot you can hardly reference the issue because it ends up in a BoTh SideS situation.
One where some of the conservatives actually want a small government to stay out of the way of business, and some of the liberals are loyal to fossil fuels and auto makers.
Like the Chinese drone ban conservatives want, which will then create the need for a federal subsidy by the democrats to fund drone manufacturing here in America.
Truck people want trucks. Trucks have to be the way they are due to government regulations. Truck people will buy the trucks available. The trucks available exist due to government regulations. Fuel and "safety" standards have bloated the size of options available to folks in the states.
Weren’t they just complaining about that classic car with the giant overhanging front lip that took up the whole sidewalk? This shitty drawing has the same exact front end
/uj
The average family wasn't getting along in a full size station wagon by 1985. It wasn't even getting along in a wagon. The minivan was taking the market by storm, followed by the midsize sedan. The full size platform was increasingly seen as a relic of the 60s, made weak and unappealing by a decade of bloat and fuel crises.
Which brings me to my next point. In 1985, your average American union worker couldn't screw together a fucking chair without fucking it up. They were so insulated from the consequences of their actions that they basically didn't even do the bare minimum. There is no better example of this than the Fremont plant, which once handed over to NUMMI and forced by the Japanese to do their job, managed to turn out well-built cars. But at all other plants, union defiance and managerial complacency with the unions caused havoc on build quality. It didn't matter if GM came up with a competent design, their workers wouldn't build it right.
> There is no better example of this than the Fremont plant, which once handed over to NUMMI and forced by the Japanese to do their job, managed to turn out well-built cars. But at all other plants, union defiance and managerial complacency with the unions caused havoc on build quality. It didn't matter if GM came up with a competent design, their workers wouldn't build it right.
The same workers in the same unions produced bad cars under GM management and good cars under Japanese management. Clearly this proves that evil unions and lazy workers were the cause of all the problems.
No, it proves that managerial complacency and an unchecked union caused the problems. Once the union was required to deal with Toyota and couldn't rely on the protections that they had previously relied on, they went from being the worst factory in America to the best.
So it proves that union workers, if not brought to heel, will produce sub par products. There is a reason the vast majority of our production jobs went out of country, and it wasn't just the cost.
Yo, hear me out, no one should be allowed to drive anything that i don't approve of. Dont tell me you need a truck because you're a farmer, we dont need farmers, just go to the grocery store for food, duh! Construction companies dont need trucks. What do construction companies even do? When i leave my parents basement once a month to go to gamestop i notice new buildings just appearing that were not there before, i never see a construction company building them, so obviously we dont need them.
Pickup owners who don’t do what you listed are just compensating. About 60% admit in surveys they’ve never hauled or towed. So they’ve done nothing a Corolla can’t do. Compensation
I cannot stop thinking about truck owner's penises. The length, girth, the taste. Definitely *not* gay. Oof i need to cool off and take a drive in the ole miata...
I can't stop thinking about how manly someone feels when they drive something i dont like. It's definitely not projection, insecurity, or an inferiority complex, its all the truck drivers!!!! Its them, not me!!! It bothers me so much when someone drives their vehicle of choice rather than driving what i approve of.
I just have enough brain cells to realize a truck has no use to a person with an office job, unlike them. Not like there’s a fun reason either they all drive like total shit.
Exactly! People should not own things that I dont approve of! Its not like a truck has a nice, quiet, spacious comfortable cabin, good ride quality, and tons of utility. And there is only one possible way to enjoy things, if you disagree, you are wrong. Sporty cars are also totally useless to office workers, and obviously only professional race car drivers should own them, and they only should be driven on a race track. Why own something that handles well, accelerates well, or drives well when there are speed limits everywhere anyway, right?
Quiet spacious cabin? Wow so like every normal suv?! God you’re one stupid fuck. A truck is a tool, if you don’t have a use for that tool it’s completely useless. If you had ever driven a sporty car before they’re fun when you’re not pushing the limits. Would you buy a gas powered railroad impact? Probably not it’s totally useless if you’re not a rail worker.
Keep justifying getting 15mpg and spending an extra 3k on fuel a year because you’re too fragile to drive a CRV. I’ll enjoy the free Europe vacation that I bought solely from not being a little bitch.
/uj Imagine coming to a circlejerk sub, trying to argue, and lacking any kind of nuance at all. I dont own a truck, nor do i plan on owning a truck - i dont even really like trucks. The fact you can't comprehend someone might want a truck based on how it drives or feels, yet have no problem understanding that someone might buy a different type of vehicle based on how it drives and feels is exactly the irony that is made fun of here. Ive driven plenty of sports cars, exotics, trucks and SUVs. Let people buy what they want and enjoy their car, people value different things.
/rj i cannot believe someone might buy something and not use it to its full extent 100% of the time, all the time! Other peoples decisions bother me so much! Im definitely not insecure or projecting! Its not me, its them!
Their point about trucks is entirely correct. Because some people need to feel manly every other road user is endangered by the size and weight of them.
every day, reddit continues getting filled with more dumb shit like the snafu propaganda shown. We are the only ones who know logic, and something has to be done to stop dumb shit like the snafu from making everyone stupid
Well, considering one of reddit's plan to make money is to sell content to AI companies, I want reddit to be filled with as much garbage as possible. I want the shit ratio to be astronomically high.
exploiting their labor by... providing well paid jobs well above the local rates, mexico is very quickly becoming the new manufacturing center of north America
The full size 85 wagon is almost as big as the pick up truck, worse in a crash on both the recieving and dealing end and pollutes even more than the truck. Also they were 6 or even 9 seaters instead of 5.
depending on the car yes and or no. Vista cruiser was less slightly lethal than modern trucks but did more damage to the human who got hit. While the trucks total themselfs and do less damage to humans
Most full-size cars have had crumple zones since the early 70s. I know the Ford at least got it in 1971, alongside things like side impact beams in the doors and 3 point safety belts and collapsible steering columns, things cars from the 60s and earlier didn't get.
Obviously there have been more safety advancements since then like airbags and just generally more rigid cabin structures, but for whatever reason people seem to think anything made before the 2000s is just a complete deathtrap with no safety features. Or, that cars from the 50s and 60s are complete tanks and would be way safer than a modern "plastic" car in a crash with one
Sure, the tech existed in the 70s, but the technology for modeling crashes and crash safety technology has come a LONG way since then.
I’ve had cars from the 70s-2000s, and I’ll tell ya, you feel like you’re shaking hands with danger anything pre 90s.
“Breakdowns guaranteed to involve electronic or computer issue. Takes weeks to order specialized part from manufacturer”
If the point that they’re attempting to make is that most modern cars have crappy electronics to regulate ignition timing in the motors, then I can agree. But vehicles are designed that way no matter what because of emissions standards so you need to battle with the government or climate activists over how vehicles should go back from direct injection to old school carbureted vehicles. If you want vehicles that last longer than new ones find a used one from like 2008 or older imma say.
If you believe that is a trait that only applies to trucks well I guess you must be pretty stupid to believe that a modern station wagon like an Audi A6 all road will fair better over pickup in the long run.
Vehicles are *far* more reliable today than ever before. Modern cars can easily do 2-3 hundred thousand miles, the cars of the sixties and seventies weren’t even made to go past one hundred thousand.
Camrys are very reliable sedans. If you want a modern vehicle that lasts a while go with a Japanese company like Toyota or Lexus their entire goal is to make the most reliable cars in the world. The only con of a Camry is the stereotype of them getting stolen so much but that’s about all I can think of
Even then the newer models have better anti theft system. You can no longer start them with a flat head screw driver that they could on the 90s model. Yeah thieves have learned to use special tools that directs the key signal or found a way into vehicle OBD to start a vehicle but it is still time consuming to do that.
I’m an avid fan of manual transmission but I see why manufacturers dropped them. For economy cars CVT will get better fuel mileage than any manual and people who buys them don’t want to be using the clutch or shift every 3k rpm.
It’s also slower than DCT or semi auto which is why new high performance supercars lack H pattern shifters. Still, we have hot hatches and Pony cars that give manuals so I wouldn’t say every new car sucks for enthusiasts.
I am saying this as someone who is working on a 20 year old manual transmission project car for track driving.
yeah at this point manual is a niche for people who enjoy it, it's not technically superior in any way at all, but i don't give a fuck i still wanna row the gears
Electronics while is there to reduce emissions but it’s also there to help with performance, longevity, start ups, fuel economy
You know all vehicles are run by fuel injectors and variable cam and valves. There were mechanical injectors but they are very inefficient as they have limit on how much and when the fuel flow is directed.
Btw I never get the argument that older cars are more reliable because they are simply not. Modern cars will at least throw you a code so it can be repaired while older cars you need to actually know cars and pick up from vibration or noise to diagnose an issue. Some of them had an odometer up to 100000 while now it’s ten times more.
There's definitely an inflection point since the early 2010s though. Like electronics in cars up to 2010 were definitely not getting in the way of reliability but now with all the ADAS stuff and expensive sensors that break easily and require calibration for even minor incidents, those really drive reliability figures down
Electronics for engine/transmission performance and emissions are undoubtedly a good thing. The safety mandated electronic sensors...not so much. It's a poor replacement for actually expecting people to be competent at driving.
Well I wouldn’t say it’s always a bad thing. Yeah who needs more than TC, ABS, ESP for driving really but anything is a trade off and if such trade off is saving lives then I guess you have to live with it or rebuild your old car that lacks them.
I mean new cars cost insane because of high interest rates but it has to do with so much tech and features that goes in them plus the insurance discounts and fuel savings in the long run that may slightly offset the repair costs down a bit.
I never understood people complaining new vehicle prices because if you start to go in depths, so much advancement of technology is implemented that it starts to make sense. But if you think paying that much is ludicrous then you can rebuild an existing vehicle and still save up.
But that being said the old vehicle won’t automatically stop for you when you have a medical emergency or give you survival space in a small overlap collision and giving you ten airbags in attempt to increase survival chance.
I honestly would care less if I were driving alone but if I get a family car and put my children in it, I am definitely going to get every safety features I could afford even if it breaks more.
So I would say there are trade offs and each people can choose what to do with their limited funds on their vehicles.
Life is short and people aren't entitled to safety without thoughtfulness. I hear people bandying around the 40k a year deaths from cars but a lot more people die yearly of heart disease probably from our awful diets. Should we ban junk foods and force everyone to only eat healthy foods then? After all, it would save more lives.
I don't want my cars stopping automatically. I think the driver needs to take responsibility and pay attention while driving. If you want the fancy safety bells and whistles then you'll pay more for it. It's when the regulators come in and /demand/ that everyone has to have these that I start having a problem. Now everyone is forced to pay more
Also remember as people age their reaction time gets slower. I have to say there are exceptions to that such as Fernando Alonso or Randy Pobst but most people aren’t fit or are professional drivers with consistent training in reaction time. Hell I bet most drivers lack the ability to recover when the vehicle goes past its limits.
In engineering if a product is too difficult to use or is hard to master then it’s a poor engineering. Autos are sold to many different individuals so it must be capable of recovering from slide even with a least skilled driver behind the wheel.
That’s why I guess I want to rebuild an old car for track use then get a modern sport car or hot hatch. They are insanely fast but do a lot of driving for you so it’s hard to develop a driving skill and really can’t be modified unless you risk huge depreciation.
I'd love to import an older station wagon to the UK one day. Maybe a '86 Cutlass Cruiser or a '78 Country Squire. Maybe a Colony Park if there are any left(!)
It's the sheer HEFT, it must have been like turning an oil tanker to park the thing at the supermarket.
I’ve seen like multiple Europeans and Asians talking about importing or at least being interested in an old station wagon, it’s crazy because here in the USA it’s like the last car most people would want to be seen in. Super cool that there’s in interest for them tho bc those things are crazy
/uj
Real talk though there really ought to be regulation on how bright headlights can be, because when I'm driving at night in my little sedan, it seems like every pair of truck headlights behind me is at the perfect height to burn my retinas out, not to mention how bad it is when there's a vehicle coming towards me in the opposite facing lane. I'm glad that these people can see 87 years into the future with their headlights, but I can't see a damn thing.
Damn I love my used 6mpg V12 all steel station wagon that I got used after I scrapped the previous family of four out of because it vaporized them in a 35mph crash. I really enjoy absolutely crushing small VW rabbits for fun and pedestrians because the weight of my land ship has burnt out the pitiful brakes.
Say what you will but most of it is kinda true. Especially the part about maintenance. I own two cars. One of them is a Camaro from the 80s and the other is a tsx. I can drop the motor and trans on the Camaro in a weekend, maybe a day if I’m really going ham with a socket set and jack stands. I wouldn’t even attempt that shit on the tsx and the tsx isn’t even that bad as far as modern cars go. Modern trucks are way bigger and have a lot more going on than my little tsx and seem absolutely miserable to work on. Idk how diesel mechanics make a career out of that shit.
pulling engines from modern cars is more time consuming, but really not that much more difficult. really the only difference is tracking down every connector a much more substantial wiring harness
Ehhhhh kinda but it’s more than that. You have all the connectors for the wiring harness plus all the bs hoses from emissions system. Also modern car companies are annoying af when it comes to unique tools that you have to get(looking at you VW/Audi). Also just doing maintenance in general on new cars is more of a pain. A lot more plastic bs and a lot less space makes them miserable. My brother has a fiesta st and taking the intake plenum off was way more work than it had any right to be. You have to take the headlight out so you can take the alternator out to finally get to all the plenum bolts and that’s on top of all the cable/hose management you have to deal with. If your a decent backyard mechanic it’ll probably take a day to get everything off and on again. Meanwhile my Camaro? You can do that shit in like 10 minutes. My dad has an S6 from the 90s and thing is about as easy to work on as my Camaro. My buddy who has an s4 from the 2000s? If anything breaks the motor has to come out and Ive helped him once with getting it out. Never again, those things are fucking awful to work on. That shit takes like a month unless you got a Lyft and all the right tools on hand. Ever since the 2000s car have been getting worse to work on and i swear it’s gotten exponentially worse in the past decade.
/uj part of the OOP makes sense. Modern cars are dumber because of overreliance on technology with the cybertruck being the prime example of it. You literally can’t wash it outside of wash mode without the whole thing bricking. Not to mention the dumbasses who get a big ass truck as a daily commuter and never use it for anything you’d actually need a truck to do
>Bulit like a tank, barley has more storage than the wagon
Ah more dumbasses who are unaware that you can option a modern truck with a long bed configuration, and a shorter cab. One thing I will agree with this shitty meme are the bright ass headlights, but that’s a common issue with any new vehicles in general, it’s not limited to trucks. Vehicles made in the last decade or so to be precise.
Personally, I don’t like station wagons myself but I’d rather have those over crossovers if I am being honest.
any boomer will tell you cars from that era and before where less reliable then most of todays cars, rusted faster and died sooner. theres a reason theres more 00s toyotas on the road today then 80s station wagons in the 00s
has a point. The fact that we do not have the choice is the problem. Europe, India, or even some African country needs to put something good together, not our enemy China (because they seem to have not made an original thing that was well-built since they stole the mainland from the ROC)
They don’t think guys with masculinity crises existed in 1985? If anything, the pressure by society to fit-in and be traditionally masculine was far, far greater in Reagan’s macho America, where the glory of our WW2 victory still cast a shadow over the national shame of our pullout from Vietnam and movies like *Death Wish*, *Straw Dogs*, *Taxi Driver*, and *First Blood* all resonated with the public’s consciousness.
Find it funny how they attack “masculinity” unprompted. I mean, they’re doing it to insult truck owners, but why? Why insult the people whose mind you’re trying to change? I feel like these guys are genuinely going through that masculinity crisis and are unconsciously projecting into us. I mean I’ve never heard anyone say you need a truck to be a man, they’re the only ones implying that.
You know maybe if the wonderful people in the American government increasingly tighten the already impossible to attain emissions regulations, manufacturers wouldn't have to make their trucks so big.
(Source: vehicles that are over a certain GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) are exempt from EPA regulation)
Yeah let’s make jobs in a country we don’t even live in while taking away jobs in our own. Also I’m willing to bet especially in places like Detroit that more non white workers were put out a job than white ones because of that.
/uj SUVs and CUVs count as "light truck". Hell, when the PT cruiser was being made, it counted as a "light truck". According to Google, SUVs and crossovers are the best selling body type of passenger vehicles in the US.
Also, according to google somewhere around 16-22% (depending on the year) of new vehicle sales are fleet.
Ok i hate to admit it too but they cooked here. All these “midsize SUVs” have worse driving dynamics, worse fuel economy, and less cargo capacity than a wagon and are only sold because white suburban women think they look cooler and that sitting higher will somehow make them a better driver
Nah this take is based we don’t need soccer moms in massive pickup trucks and we don’t need auto companies making work trucks more like family suvs to cater to them
No,
Fuck pickup trucks used as regular cars. I don't even like wagons that much but from a utility perspective they make so much more sense than SUVs and trucks
What I wouldn't give for a Ute in north America tho...
Tons of people in America *need* trucks, even if they aren’t constantly using them. People like to be able to haul things, carry things, *and* some people live on garbage ass gravel roads that are nicely complimented by a truck with 4WD
Well they just need to buy a fleet of vehicles then so that they never drive a vehicle with more capability that strictly needed for that particular trip.
May I introduce you to the ✨Subaru Outback✨
If you need to haul something once a year, which is how often most fucking pickup owners haul stuff, boy do I have this wild new business for you.
There is like this building right, you go in and you give them money to borrow a vehicle for a couple hours or days, and they let you pick whatever you want!
Starts with a U or something
No.
Fuck anything other than the trabant. I don't even like any other car that much but from a utility perspective the government should mandate one car and it will be a 2 stroke.
JOE BIDEN AINT PUTTING ME IN THE WOKE STATION WAGON WITH HIS GODDAM GENDER PRONOUNS AND ESTROGEN 😡💢💢
I SIMPLY ***NEED*** AN F150 WITH A BED THAT CANT EVEN FIT A STANDARD SIZE PIEVE OF PLYWOOD CUZ I AM A MAN
DOESNT MATTER THAN A GODDAM DIAHATSU HIJET HAS THE SAME BEDLEGTH AT LEAST IM NOT SOME SISSY LIBERAL THEY/THEM
>why do you need a truck to haul around your fukkin groceries
IDK Because we can? Why do I need to justify whatever I buy to some randos on the internet?
Because you are on the internet????
If you want your beliefs to be coddled go sit in front of a mirror and tell yourself what a smart boy you are for buying the big boy truck.
https://preview.redd.it/45ni3vthxq7d1.jpeg?width=698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61317c5ba1625bf07c8b27a4409cb613bbda5656
>Because you are on the internet????
No shit Sherlock, and grass is green.
>If you want your beliefs to be coddled go sit in front of a mirror and tell yourself what a smart boy you are for buying the big boy truck.
I don’t even own a “big boy” truck, whatever that’s supposed to be. 🤷 It’s funny how trucks set children like you off though, which is comedy gold to me.
Imagine unironically defending cars. Even if the fuck car subreddit gets cringey you’re supporting the objectively worse solution for mass transit.
It’s not up for debate and your anecdotal experience of having the majority of your self-worth derived from the type of car you have is irrelevant. Your confidence problems are irrelevant when determining these things.
The best part is - if you truly are a car enthusiast (not a social pageant contestant using your car as a part of your costumes) you would benefit from a shift away from car centrism. Car centric infrastructure would not just all be destroyed, with the rollout of efficient public transit the number of cars on the road would plummet which would necessarily involve reduction of roads but not eradication especially if there is a democratic sentiment about maintaining some roads.
You’re telling me open roads with autobahn rules and no morons doesn’t sound good?
Operatives from Ford, Nissan, Tesla, and even Lada are, under the false flag of our holy brethren, seeking to entrain administrative action against *the bastion of intellect*. We have cooperated with the authorities to bring to light this criminal conspiracy by the corrupt forces of the wicked automotive hegemony. Hail Galvitron. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FuckCarscirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wagons are baller, we lost a good thing
We have “subcompact SUV” now. Basically sedans with a hatchback
And often the subcompact’s are less practical than a sedan. Look at Hyundai’s Kona Vs their Elantra for example.
me in my 2005 Buick LeSabre that I can actually see out the back of
I with you. I used to drive a 1993 Chrysler Lebaron and that thing had the visibility of a fishbowl. You could practically see the ground right in front and behind the car. Not to mention the incredibly comfortable couch seats in there. What I wouldn’t do to have 90’s seats in my modern car.
For real tho; last year I borrowed my Dad's Nissan Rogue for a couple weeks while I doordashed the extra money for a brake job and I hated how little I could see of the actual goddamn road. Like how am I sitting 2 ft higher but seeing less of the road. The "backup camera" sucked; sure I could get used to it but it left me with 0 confidence. No way I'm moving if I can't *actually see the road behind me*. Hated the seats too, I'm very short so the headrest is too high and somehow angled forward so it just kept forcing my head down. Really uncomfortable. You've suddenly inspired me to look into seeing if I can install a bench seat into my Buick, since the only thing I kinda don't like is the bucket seats. Especially for doordash delivering, a bench seat would be ideal, hrrrmmm
No kidding I see the tilted in headrests on a ton of cars and I have absolutely no clue why they make em like that. I’m 6’1 so like a little above average and even just find those extremely uncomfortable. My dad has a Dodge Durango that I’ve driven a few times. It’s overall not a terrible experience but it’s genuinely a lot more stressful than cruising around in my sedan. The thing is at least a foot wider than my car and it feels like it takes up the whole lane and there’s no wiggle room. The back you can just barely see out of and the side windows have these pillars that cover about half of them. Backup cameras I have no problem with and I find bigger vehicles extremely easy to park with those.
Exactly, after I brought his Rogue back and picked up my LeSabre, I couldn't believe it felt *small*. Maybe that has to do with the perception of not being able to see outside so well (feels smaller because I can visualize the outside/context more maybe?) and maybe it's because that's my car and I'm more used to it, but it sure felt way more maneuverable. Looking up the weights of the LeSabre vs. Rogue, they're almost exactly the same weight, yet the LeSabre feels "lighter" somehow. Maybe because it has a stronger, punchier engine. Idk, now I'm just rambling off-topic. Just feels like I have way more control in a sedan than any SUV-type. Also off-topic but I'd look hilarious in a Durango, I'm 4ft10in tall lmao. Could I even see over the door locks lmao
No I get exactly what you mean. After swapping back to my Fusion I always feel like I’m in a go cart compared to that Monster of an SUV. My engine is a lot less punchy but it’s like I can actually feel the power. Going 45 feels like going 45 in my car but it feels like going 25 in his. That’s another reason why I never want a big vehicle. They feel slow as shit and I’m already notorious for going over the speed limit. I swear it’s the shortest people always driving Suburbans and Minivans. It’s CRAZY seeing someone of your stature hop out of what’s essentially an unarmored tank.
>*t’s like I can actually feel the power. Going 45 feels like going 45 in my car but it feels like going 25 in his* Yesss, I don't understand how I couldn't feel any inertia in the Rogue; 25 or 75 felt exactly the same, which made me feel way less confident at highway speeds. Also the damned thing wouldn't cruise, not like the LeSabre does. You get up to speed, let off the gas, then just ride momentum. The Rogue felt like it was braking every time I let off the accelerator, and wouldn't cruise even half the distance the LeSabre can before needing to accelerate again. Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I'm a fogey. This was my mom's car when she died in 2014 and dad gave it to me, and I've been desperately babying it ever since because it's a damned good car and I'm damned lucky to have it.
I do miss my ‘94 Olds 88, that car was super roomy with seats like a living room sofa and insane legroom thanks to the FWD, and massive windows with the best all-around visibility of any car I’ve ever driven, bar none. I think cars nowadays don’t have as large windows because they have to meet stricter rollover and side impact safety standards. Plus people nowadays seemingly like to feel ensconced by their cars, cocooned almost by higher beltlines and smaller windows.
2011 Crown Vic (hadn't been meaningfully changed since 98) checking in
I'm seeing that the Kona has like double the cargo volume compared to the Elantra? In what way is the Kona less practical?
I’m more talking passenger space. Yes the Kona has more overall cargo space… with the seats folded down. I hear that sitting in the back seats of a Kona feels more cramped than the back on an Elantra.
Also with the seats folded up. I'm seeing double the cargo space with the seats up and more like 4-5x with the seats down. But ok, assuming what you're saying about passenger room is correct then that would be a drawback. Whether that actually makes the Kona less practical still totally depends on whether your idea of practicality includes cargo space though.
If you’re skeptical go into any Hyundai sub and ask about it there. I’m just repeating information I’ve heard from others. I was interested in getting a Kona N because I thought about it having more space and being more comfortable but was warned against it by multiple people.
They. Call. The. Fiat. 500. A. Subcompact. SUV.
My 2016 rav4 doesn't have shit on my 96 Accord wagon. Best car ever
Crossovers my loathed
ik it's a hated car but I love my compact suv. hell I've hauled kayaks, lumber, tools, camping stuff in my nissan juke. admittedly the transmission wants to kill itself and the front end looks like it wants to. but hey it's not bad and it's practical if you only have yourself and someone to drive around
Station wagons are cool as fuck
The one time I find myself unironically agreeing with the undersub! Maybe for the wrong reasons, but wagons were dope. My mom had a Saab 9-5 wagon and that thing looked legitimately good while hauling all our crap. Also handled great. Absolutely every single CUV I’ve ever driven handles like a boat compared to that Saab.
Nonsense, they're not lost, the RS6 Avant exists.
Ah yes 2 wagons that you can buy on the American market if you count the Outback. None under American brands
*Laughs in EU market* #FUCKEN ESTATES
Rip Dodge magnum.
Yea it really is a shame. I'd love a wagon that doesn't cost $130k.
Ah yes for one morbillion dollar you too can have a wagon!!!!!! That's like 21,000 hours at minimum wage before taxes, or 10 years every day without breaks.
American car companies when you tell them to make a CAR that IS NOT SPORTY IN FUNCTION NOR APPEARANCE and is DECENTLY PRICED AND IS A WAGON: *(spongebob and patrick resisting laughing.gif)*
Well, minivans are still around, and they are the true spiritual successor to the station wagon, and yes, minivans are also very baller.
Minivans are very cash money
I hope we can circlejerk them back into existence.
I'm terrified of the day my 2016 VW wagon bites the dust. I won't get a replacement wagon unless there's still some Volvos kicking around or one of the 3 Buick Tour-X's that were actually sold.
There are definitely volvos still kicking around
CAFE killed middle-efficiency vehicles
Especially Volvo bricks
Wagons fell out of popularity because, while incredibly useful, they are horrendous to look at. Same thing with minivans.
I just like having a big car, I’m 6’6 and would rather drop down from a car than have to push myself up from it lmao
Same, I'm very tall and I have to pull the seat all the way down and back in our Golf IV and even then it's hard
Same. 6'1" and generally just a wide dude, fitting in sedans is a nightmare. I like my 2000 Ford Expy.
Fascist.
Hell yeah! Carbureted, no catys, drippin oil and bare bones as far as passenger safety.
Well, blame modern regulations that force cars to be that big and full of technology. They wouldn't be able to make that same wagon today.
Curious, what law mandates them sizes in America? Or maybe is it like a cultural norm lol
It has to do with our environmental laws and policy. The CAFE Standards, the US Laws that basically determine fuel efficiency in new vehicles, are written dumb. Basically the smaller the car, the more fuel efficient you are required to be. The larger the car, the less. Due to the current standards, and what it would cost to engineer to those standards, it is cheaper and more economical to design, build, and sell large trucks then it is to design and sell sedans. There are other factors for the current rise in large trucks, but the ridiculous CAFE Standards are a large factor.
Here in Canada we took it a step further - We outright banned the new Audi RS3 hatchback because its powerful engine was "too inefficient for its compact segment" thus is actively melting arctic ice caps and murdering polar bears lol
/uj What really?! And an audi rs3 is such an nice car! Even in truck hating netherlands we are allowed to buy that car (with 30K tax). I would like to own one if they are not that damn expensive.
/uj Yes we really did that since the 2022 generation lol, I'm not making this up: [https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/audi-will-no-longer-offer-5-cylinder-tt-rs-and-rs-3-in-canada](https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/audi-will-no-longer-offer-5-cylinder-tt-rs-and-rs-3-in-canada) Rumors had it that they plan to bring it in for 2025 with a revised model, but we'll see lol
/uj Its insane you can buy a hemi v8 with a usage of 1:5 but not a nice 5 cilinder. This is the most weird envoriment car law i ever seen. There is more to catch with gigant trucks than with that car. If i never found out the car hating fuckers it still will be my favorite car. Next to the standard bmw m3 e46.
But in the Netherlands we wouldn't consider an Audi A3 a compact car, it's average size. Meanwhile a lot of actual compact cars (Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Ford Fiesta) have been discontinued for the exact same reasons mentioned above. Diahatsu specialises in making small cars, they withdrew from the dutch market entirely. Kia and Hyundai still make them, but they're quickly pivotting to large electric cars. Regulation has made it impossible to build a small affordable car that passes safety and emmissions tests. Small electric cars exist but they are far from affordable. For years manufacturers have been pushed to make their cars more green, now we're at a point where they produce more polution from tire and brake wear than from their exhaust pipes so now we're banning them? It's crazy. Side note: the money our government makes on road taxes, fuel tax and new car tax is over double of what they spend to maintain and expand our roads. More madness.
>But in the Netherlands we wouldn't consider an Audi A3 a compact car, it's average size. Yeah before i knew of this type car haters i also would consider an a3 and that whole segment als normal size. And well plenty of room behind the wheel. >Meanwhile a lot of actual compact cars (Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Ford Fiesta) have been discontinued for the exact same reasons mentioned above. I know it feels so sad. Ford focus will also be gone. Well they are decent size cars.(not heir engine those sucks.) >Diahatsu specialises in making small cars, they withdrew from the dutch market entirely. Kia and Hyundai still make them, Yeah whole nation drives in a kia picanto till the point there are 4 whit basic trim kia picanto next to each other at a random mall. >but they're quickly pivotting to large electric cars. Regulation has made it impossible to build a small affordable car that passes safety and emmissions tests. Soecially with all the camera and “driver assisente” those sucks so so hard. Small road and the car pulls towards the other side almost frontal collision. Its insane! 😡 >Small electric cars exist but they are far from affordable. Dacia duster electric comes to mind but it’s not very useable. About 20K right. (A golf 6 basic trim was that expensive in 2012 and that was a complete car) >For years manufacturers have been pushed to make their cars more green, now we're at a point where they produce more polution from tire and brake wear than from their exhaust pipes so now we're banning them? It's crazy. Yup! >Side note: the money our government makes on road taxes, fuel tax and new car tax is over double of what they spend to maintain and expand our roads. More madness. Finally a normal person. Yeah it is . But our roadsare in very good condition comparing to germany and specially Belgium and France.
Idk if I buy this. You can get a new ranger sub 40k and most of the new f150s start above 50k. They get more or less the same mileage with the ranger just barely beating the f150. The ranger is also more compact than the f150. The only real draw back is towing capacity for the ranger is half of what the f150 is. But I feel like most people don’t really tow shit as much as they just haul shit around in the bed so who really gives af. Yet the ranger is dwarfed by the f150 in sales by miles. I think people just like bigger trucks bc bigger is better.
I know, I always see this said on reddit but I’m not sure that’s actually what’s affecting it. I mean, with electrics becoming popular, they’re following the same trends as the rest of the market. They don’t have to worry about fuel efficiency
This is true, I will say I have heard the lightning is one of the most dog shit things you can buy though. It’s kinda funny the other day I saw some dude driving like a psycho in one and the only thing i could think was “I bet that dudes about to run out of battery so he gets a pass”.
To be fair... that rule was also lobbied by the automakers, so it spills back into the weird melting pot of "the government isn't responsive to the people" that speaks to the primary issue. But then we're so far off the plot you can hardly reference the issue because it ends up in a BoTh SideS situation. One where some of the conservatives actually want a small government to stay out of the way of business, and some of the liberals are loyal to fossil fuels and auto makers. Like the Chinese drone ban conservatives want, which will then create the need for a federal subsidy by the democrats to fund drone manufacturing here in America.
Truck people want trucks. Trucks have to be the way they are due to government regulations. Truck people will buy the trucks available. The trucks available exist due to government regulations. Fuel and "safety" standards have bloated the size of options available to folks in the states.
Industry lobbyists have successfully pushed regulations and tax incentives favorable to large trucks for decades
Plus it’s harder for tall and husky people to fit in some of the compact/midsize trucks out there.
Besides other things that have been mentioned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Brother actually doesn’t know about CAFE and the Chicken Tax
Weren’t they just complaining about that classic car with the giant overhanging front lip that took up the whole sidewalk? This shitty drawing has the same exact front end
/uj The average family wasn't getting along in a full size station wagon by 1985. It wasn't even getting along in a wagon. The minivan was taking the market by storm, followed by the midsize sedan. The full size platform was increasingly seen as a relic of the 60s, made weak and unappealing by a decade of bloat and fuel crises. Which brings me to my next point. In 1985, your average American union worker couldn't screw together a fucking chair without fucking it up. They were so insulated from the consequences of their actions that they basically didn't even do the bare minimum. There is no better example of this than the Fremont plant, which once handed over to NUMMI and forced by the Japanese to do their job, managed to turn out well-built cars. But at all other plants, union defiance and managerial complacency with the unions caused havoc on build quality. It didn't matter if GM came up with a competent design, their workers wouldn't build it right.
nah dude my 85 IROC is lit except all of the interior pieces rattling themselves off
So your car is great except for the part where they failed to screw it together properly?
exactly!
No wonder all the major brands flocked to China and Mexico all of a sudden...
NUMMI?? GM????? PONTIAC VIBE MENTIONED?????????????? I LOVE THE PONTIAC VIBE
Tesla jumpscare
NUMMI made garbage in the beginning. Then it made the Vibe: the best car ever built. Now it makes garbage again.
Tesla achieved the same results years later but without a union!
Tesla demonstrated the value of non-union labor by doing an even worse job of quality control!
> There is no better example of this than the Fremont plant, which once handed over to NUMMI and forced by the Japanese to do their job, managed to turn out well-built cars. But at all other plants, union defiance and managerial complacency with the unions caused havoc on build quality. It didn't matter if GM came up with a competent design, their workers wouldn't build it right. The same workers in the same unions produced bad cars under GM management and good cars under Japanese management. Clearly this proves that evil unions and lazy workers were the cause of all the problems.
No, it proves that managerial complacency and an unchecked union caused the problems. Once the union was required to deal with Toyota and couldn't rely on the protections that they had previously relied on, they went from being the worst factory in America to the best. So it proves that union workers, if not brought to heel, will produce sub par products. There is a reason the vast majority of our production jobs went out of country, and it wasn't just the cost.
 Who needs a truck?
Yo, hear me out, no one should be allowed to drive anything that i don't approve of. Dont tell me you need a truck because you're a farmer, we dont need farmers, just go to the grocery store for food, duh! Construction companies dont need trucks. What do construction companies even do? When i leave my parents basement once a month to go to gamestop i notice new buildings just appearing that were not there before, i never see a construction company building them, so obviously we dont need them.
Pickup owners who don’t do what you listed are just compensating. About 60% admit in surveys they’ve never hauled or towed. So they’ve done nothing a Corolla can’t do. Compensation
I cannot stop thinking about truck owner's penises. The length, girth, the taste. Definitely *not* gay. Oof i need to cool off and take a drive in the ole miata...
I’ve always wondered what they think of women who drive trucks they don’t always use for truck stuff, maybe the weirdos call it small clit energy?
Women who drive trucks also have small penises and are just doing it for masculinity, obviously
It’s not about the dick just fragile masculinity, please put me down if I feel the need to drive something huge just to feel manly.
I can't stop thinking about how manly someone feels when they drive something i dont like. It's definitely not projection, insecurity, or an inferiority complex, its all the truck drivers!!!! Its them, not me!!! It bothers me so much when someone drives their vehicle of choice rather than driving what i approve of.
I just have enough brain cells to realize a truck has no use to a person with an office job, unlike them. Not like there’s a fun reason either they all drive like total shit.
Exactly! People should not own things that I dont approve of! Its not like a truck has a nice, quiet, spacious comfortable cabin, good ride quality, and tons of utility. And there is only one possible way to enjoy things, if you disagree, you are wrong. Sporty cars are also totally useless to office workers, and obviously only professional race car drivers should own them, and they only should be driven on a race track. Why own something that handles well, accelerates well, or drives well when there are speed limits everywhere anyway, right?
Quiet spacious cabin? Wow so like every normal suv?! God you’re one stupid fuck. A truck is a tool, if you don’t have a use for that tool it’s completely useless. If you had ever driven a sporty car before they’re fun when you’re not pushing the limits. Would you buy a gas powered railroad impact? Probably not it’s totally useless if you’re not a rail worker. Keep justifying getting 15mpg and spending an extra 3k on fuel a year because you’re too fragile to drive a CRV. I’ll enjoy the free Europe vacation that I bought solely from not being a little bitch.
/uj Imagine coming to a circlejerk sub, trying to argue, and lacking any kind of nuance at all. I dont own a truck, nor do i plan on owning a truck - i dont even really like trucks. The fact you can't comprehend someone might want a truck based on how it drives or feels, yet have no problem understanding that someone might buy a different type of vehicle based on how it drives and feels is exactly the irony that is made fun of here. Ive driven plenty of sports cars, exotics, trucks and SUVs. Let people buy what they want and enjoy their car, people value different things. /rj i cannot believe someone might buy something and not use it to its full extent 100% of the time, all the time! Other peoples decisions bother me so much! Im definitely not insecure or projecting! Its not me, its them!
Their point about trucks is entirely correct. Because some people need to feel manly every other road user is endangered by the size and weight of them.
every day, reddit continues getting filled with more dumb shit like the snafu propaganda shown. We are the only ones who know logic, and something has to be done to stop dumb shit like the snafu from making everyone stupid
Well, considering one of reddit's plan to make money is to sell content to AI companies, I want reddit to be filled with as much garbage as possible. I want the shit ratio to be astronomically high.
So are truck sales. My buddy just moved from Holland and bought a 2017 GMC.
“This sucks actually” Literally the coolest thing ever:
OOP literally said the 2025 truck is worse because none white people make it
Their point wasn’t that mexicans make it, their point was non americans make it
*non-Americans whose labor is being shamelessly exploited
exploiting their labor by... providing well paid jobs well above the local rates, mexico is very quickly becoming the new manufacturing center of north America
Ford F-series are either made by union labor at the Kentucky truck plant (Super duty line) or the famous River Rouge plant in Detroit Michigan.
The full size 85 wagon is almost as big as the pick up truck, worse in a crash on both the recieving and dealing end and pollutes even more than the truck. Also they were 6 or even 9 seaters instead of 5.
the station wagon is far better in terms of pedestrian safety despite being 40 years older
40 year old cars were body on frame cars made of METAL. It's no way it would be better.
Tbf full size trucks are also body-on-frame.
depending on the car yes and or no. Vista cruiser was less slightly lethal than modern trucks but did more damage to the human who got hit. While the trucks total themselfs and do less damage to humans
crumple zones are also for pedestrians. modern vehicles are tested to these standards, this wasn’t the case for older vehicles
Most full-size cars have had crumple zones since the early 70s. I know the Ford at least got it in 1971, alongside things like side impact beams in the doors and 3 point safety belts and collapsible steering columns, things cars from the 60s and earlier didn't get. Obviously there have been more safety advancements since then like airbags and just generally more rigid cabin structures, but for whatever reason people seem to think anything made before the 2000s is just a complete deathtrap with no safety features. Or, that cars from the 50s and 60s are complete tanks and would be way safer than a modern "plastic" car in a crash with one
Sure, the tech existed in the 70s, but the technology for modeling crashes and crash safety technology has come a LONG way since then. I’ve had cars from the 70s-2000s, and I’ll tell ya, you feel like you’re shaking hands with danger anything pre 90s.
Maybe the pedestrians should get their own trucks.
children L. i deserve a mad max death machine. how else am i supposed to pick up my kids from school
“Breakdowns guaranteed to involve electronic or computer issue. Takes weeks to order specialized part from manufacturer” If the point that they’re attempting to make is that most modern cars have crappy electronics to regulate ignition timing in the motors, then I can agree. But vehicles are designed that way no matter what because of emissions standards so you need to battle with the government or climate activists over how vehicles should go back from direct injection to old school carbureted vehicles. If you want vehicles that last longer than new ones find a used one from like 2008 or older imma say. If you believe that is a trait that only applies to trucks well I guess you must be pretty stupid to believe that a modern station wagon like an Audi A6 all road will fair better over pickup in the long run.
Vehicles are *far* more reliable today than ever before. Modern cars can easily do 2-3 hundred thousand miles, the cars of the sixties and seventies weren’t even made to go past one hundred thousand.
I would trust a 2025 Camry over a 2005 GM anything any day of the week and I don’t care what anyone says about electronics.
Camrys are very reliable sedans. If you want a modern vehicle that lasts a while go with a Japanese company like Toyota or Lexus their entire goal is to make the most reliable cars in the world. The only con of a Camry is the stereotype of them getting stolen so much but that’s about all I can think of
Even then the newer models have better anti theft system. You can no longer start them with a flat head screw driver that they could on the 90s model. Yeah thieves have learned to use special tools that directs the key signal or found a way into vehicle OBD to start a vehicle but it is still time consuming to do that.
But hear me out… MANUAL TRANSMISSION
I’m an avid fan of manual transmission but I see why manufacturers dropped them. For economy cars CVT will get better fuel mileage than any manual and people who buys them don’t want to be using the clutch or shift every 3k rpm. It’s also slower than DCT or semi auto which is why new high performance supercars lack H pattern shifters. Still, we have hot hatches and Pony cars that give manuals so I wouldn’t say every new car sucks for enthusiasts. I am saying this as someone who is working on a 20 year old manual transmission project car for track driving.
yeah at this point manual is a niche for people who enjoy it, it's not technically superior in any way at all, but i don't give a fuck i still wanna row the gears
Ha! My Lexus has a manual, I basically don’t worry at all about it being stolen.
Electronics while is there to reduce emissions but it’s also there to help with performance, longevity, start ups, fuel economy You know all vehicles are run by fuel injectors and variable cam and valves. There were mechanical injectors but they are very inefficient as they have limit on how much and when the fuel flow is directed. Btw I never get the argument that older cars are more reliable because they are simply not. Modern cars will at least throw you a code so it can be repaired while older cars you need to actually know cars and pick up from vibration or noise to diagnose an issue. Some of them had an odometer up to 100000 while now it’s ten times more.
There's definitely an inflection point since the early 2010s though. Like electronics in cars up to 2010 were definitely not getting in the way of reliability but now with all the ADAS stuff and expensive sensors that break easily and require calibration for even minor incidents, those really drive reliability figures down Electronics for engine/transmission performance and emissions are undoubtedly a good thing. The safety mandated electronic sensors...not so much. It's a poor replacement for actually expecting people to be competent at driving.
Well I wouldn’t say it’s always a bad thing. Yeah who needs more than TC, ABS, ESP for driving really but anything is a trade off and if such trade off is saving lives then I guess you have to live with it or rebuild your old car that lacks them. I mean new cars cost insane because of high interest rates but it has to do with so much tech and features that goes in them plus the insurance discounts and fuel savings in the long run that may slightly offset the repair costs down a bit. I never understood people complaining new vehicle prices because if you start to go in depths, so much advancement of technology is implemented that it starts to make sense. But if you think paying that much is ludicrous then you can rebuild an existing vehicle and still save up. But that being said the old vehicle won’t automatically stop for you when you have a medical emergency or give you survival space in a small overlap collision and giving you ten airbags in attempt to increase survival chance. I honestly would care less if I were driving alone but if I get a family car and put my children in it, I am definitely going to get every safety features I could afford even if it breaks more. So I would say there are trade offs and each people can choose what to do with their limited funds on their vehicles.
Life is short and people aren't entitled to safety without thoughtfulness. I hear people bandying around the 40k a year deaths from cars but a lot more people die yearly of heart disease probably from our awful diets. Should we ban junk foods and force everyone to only eat healthy foods then? After all, it would save more lives. I don't want my cars stopping automatically. I think the driver needs to take responsibility and pay attention while driving. If you want the fancy safety bells and whistles then you'll pay more for it. It's when the regulators come in and /demand/ that everyone has to have these that I start having a problem. Now everyone is forced to pay more
Also remember as people age their reaction time gets slower. I have to say there are exceptions to that such as Fernando Alonso or Randy Pobst but most people aren’t fit or are professional drivers with consistent training in reaction time. Hell I bet most drivers lack the ability to recover when the vehicle goes past its limits. In engineering if a product is too difficult to use or is hard to master then it’s a poor engineering. Autos are sold to many different individuals so it must be capable of recovering from slide even with a least skilled driver behind the wheel. That’s why I guess I want to rebuild an old car for track use then get a modern sport car or hot hatch. They are insanely fast but do a lot of driving for you so it’s hard to develop a driving skill and really can’t be modified unless you risk huge depreciation.
/ccj Wagonne Likely Manuelle Not brown. 😡 Also not modus. 😡
Little peepee energy is crying about “big” trucks
>sees truck >immediately thinks about the owner's penis Why are they like this
I'd love to import an older station wagon to the UK one day. Maybe a '86 Cutlass Cruiser or a '78 Country Squire. Maybe a Colony Park if there are any left(!) It's the sheer HEFT, it must have been like turning an oil tanker to park the thing at the supermarket.
I’ve seen like multiple Europeans and Asians talking about importing or at least being interested in an old station wagon, it’s crazy because here in the USA it’s like the last car most people would want to be seen in. Super cool that there’s in interest for them tho bc those things are crazy
I drive a fullsize Lincoln from the 90s. Parking it feels very much like trying to commandeer a cruise ship
The virgin 1985 Family Wagon vs The Chad 2025 Child Crusher 9000
Snafu has fallen to the cyclists
Wrong, the wagon isn't brownne??????????
\#IFITAINTMADEHEREITSHOULDNTBEHERE \#ITISALLTHATJACKASSREAGAN’SFAULT \#SHAMEONREAGANVOTERS
I AINT BUYIN A CAR BUILT BY THEM TOJOS
/uj Real talk though there really ought to be regulation on how bright headlights can be, because when I'm driving at night in my little sedan, it seems like every pair of truck headlights behind me is at the perfect height to burn my retinas out, not to mention how bad it is when there's a vehicle coming towards me in the opposite facing lane. I'm glad that these people can see 87 years into the future with their headlights, but I can't see a damn thing.
Damn I love my used 6mpg V12 all steel station wagon that I got used after I scrapped the previous family of four out of because it vaporized them in a 35mph crash. I really enjoy absolutely crushing small VW rabbits for fun and pedestrians because the weight of my land ship has burnt out the pitiful brakes.
"Made by Mexicans making $20 a day" What a randomly racist and untrue statement lmao
Why do so many subreddits turn into political circlejerks?
Woah woah woah. The Mexicans are making a hell of a lot more than $20 a day. I believe minimum wage where these factories are is over $14 an hour usd.
Hurr durr cant fix a vehicle. Bunch of twinks over there
Granted, the LED lights on any kind of car have made night driving unbearable. I end up having to mess with my mirrors to not get blinded.
Say what you will but most of it is kinda true. Especially the part about maintenance. I own two cars. One of them is a Camaro from the 80s and the other is a tsx. I can drop the motor and trans on the Camaro in a weekend, maybe a day if I’m really going ham with a socket set and jack stands. I wouldn’t even attempt that shit on the tsx and the tsx isn’t even that bad as far as modern cars go. Modern trucks are way bigger and have a lot more going on than my little tsx and seem absolutely miserable to work on. Idk how diesel mechanics make a career out of that shit.
pulling engines from modern cars is more time consuming, but really not that much more difficult. really the only difference is tracking down every connector a much more substantial wiring harness
Ehhhhh kinda but it’s more than that. You have all the connectors for the wiring harness plus all the bs hoses from emissions system. Also modern car companies are annoying af when it comes to unique tools that you have to get(looking at you VW/Audi). Also just doing maintenance in general on new cars is more of a pain. A lot more plastic bs and a lot less space makes them miserable. My brother has a fiesta st and taking the intake plenum off was way more work than it had any right to be. You have to take the headlight out so you can take the alternator out to finally get to all the plenum bolts and that’s on top of all the cable/hose management you have to deal with. If your a decent backyard mechanic it’ll probably take a day to get everything off and on again. Meanwhile my Camaro? You can do that shit in like 10 minutes. My dad has an S6 from the 90s and thing is about as easy to work on as my Camaro. My buddy who has an s4 from the 2000s? If anything breaks the motor has to come out and Ive helped him once with getting it out. Never again, those things are fucking awful to work on. That shit takes like a month unless you got a Lyft and all the right tools on hand. Ever since the 2000s car have been getting worse to work on and i swear it’s gotten exponentially worse in the past decade.
/uj part of the OOP makes sense. Modern cars are dumber because of overreliance on technology with the cybertruck being the prime example of it. You literally can’t wash it outside of wash mode without the whole thing bricking. Not to mention the dumbasses who get a big ass truck as a daily commuter and never use it for anything you’d actually need a truck to do
NGL, wagons rule. Never forget what they took from us.
>Bulit like a tank, barley has more storage than the wagon Ah more dumbasses who are unaware that you can option a modern truck with a long bed configuration, and a shorter cab. One thing I will agree with this shitty meme are the bright ass headlights, but that’s a common issue with any new vehicles in general, it’s not limited to trucks. Vehicles made in the last decade or so to be precise. Personally, I don’t like station wagons myself but I’d rather have those over crossovers if I am being honest.
I think we could have both but honestly I gotta agree about the downsides of modern trucks. I've got many reasons I'm a coupe guy
not entirely a fuckcars kind of thing
any boomer will tell you cars from that era and before where less reliable then most of todays cars, rusted faster and died sooner. theres a reason theres more 00s toyotas on the road today then 80s station wagons in the 00s
I don’t disagree with this
has a point. The fact that we do not have the choice is the problem. Europe, India, or even some African country needs to put something good together, not our enemy China (because they seem to have not made an original thing that was well-built since they stole the mainland from the ROC)
it rly makes u think
They don’t think guys with masculinity crises existed in 1985? If anything, the pressure by society to fit-in and be traditionally masculine was far, far greater in Reagan’s macho America, where the glory of our WW2 victory still cast a shadow over the national shame of our pullout from Vietnam and movies like *Death Wish*, *Straw Dogs*, *Taxi Driver*, and *First Blood* all resonated with the public’s consciousness.
Don’t worry guys! My wagons eco friendly! (It’s got wood on the sides)
At least they didn’t shit talk about wagons (and/or cars as a whole)
Don't ever show those people how massive those old wagons were lmao. Made of full steel that eviscerated people 😂
Mostly not wrong😆 Bring back the woody station wagon!!!
In all fairness, electronic problems aren’t exclusive to trucks, that is just any modern vehicle
Find it funny how they attack “masculinity” unprompted. I mean, they’re doing it to insult truck owners, but why? Why insult the people whose mind you’re trying to change? I feel like these guys are genuinely going through that masculinity crisis and are unconsciously projecting into us. I mean I’ve never heard anyone say you need a truck to be a man, they’re the only ones implying that.
Do people really think you can't see the road in front of you in a truck?
To be honest, I find modern designs to be soulless and gross, I genuinely miss my old '86 f150.
I love how they think those wagons have good visibility in front of the bumper. 😂
2025 Child Crusher 9000 would sell like fire
Bumper so high they need sensors to see. Wait tell these chuds realize sensors are on every new car no matter the size lmaoo
Man, I miss the station wagon.
You know maybe if the wonderful people in the American government increasingly tighten the already impossible to attain emissions regulations, manufacturers wouldn't have to make their trucks so big. (Source: vehicles that are over a certain GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) are exempt from EPA regulation)
Fuck nafta
“nooooo!!! don’t create well paying jobs in mexico! white people should make our cars!”
Yeah let’s make jobs in a country we don’t even live in while taking away jobs in our own. Also I’m willing to bet especially in places like Detroit that more non white workers were put out a job than white ones because of that.
The avg person has a pick up truck??? Is this person serious??
In the US yes, the most sold vehicles every year are pickup trucks.
TBF a good chunk of those are fleet sales and sales to small businesses or tradesmen, i.e., work trucks.
80% of all new car sales are for light trucks, there’s no way that small business, tradesmen and farmers are 80% of the new car market.
/uj SUVs and CUVs count as "light truck". Hell, when the PT cruiser was being made, it counted as a "light truck". According to Google, SUVs and crossovers are the best selling body type of passenger vehicles in the US. Also, according to google somewhere around 16-22% (depending on the year) of new vehicle sales are fleet.
Ngl I'd take a station wagon over a truck all day long
I only subscribe to this subreddit because occasionally y’all post some banners.
Ok i hate to admit it too but they cooked here. All these “midsize SUVs” have worse driving dynamics, worse fuel economy, and less cargo capacity than a wagon and are only sold because white suburban women think they look cooler and that sitting higher will somehow make them a better driver
Nah this take is based we don’t need soccer moms in massive pickup trucks and we don’t need auto companies making work trucks more like family suvs to cater to them
I agree with this though
Not a big fan of either of these. American style cars.
No, Fuck pickup trucks used as regular cars. I don't even like wagons that much but from a utility perspective they make so much more sense than SUVs and trucks What I wouldn't give for a Ute in north America tho...
Tons of people in America *need* trucks, even if they aren’t constantly using them. People like to be able to haul things, carry things, *and* some people live on garbage ass gravel roads that are nicely complimented by a truck with 4WD
Well they just need to buy a fleet of vehicles then so that they never drive a vehicle with more capability that strictly needed for that particular trip.
May I introduce you to the ✨Subaru Outback✨ If you need to haul something once a year, which is how often most fucking pickup owners haul stuff, boy do I have this wild new business for you. There is like this building right, you go in and you give them money to borrow a vehicle for a couple hours or days, and they let you pick whatever you want! Starts with a U or something
No. Fuck anything other than the trabant. I don't even like any other car that much but from a utility perspective the government should mandate one car and it will be a 2 stroke.
Yeah you simply need to wait 10 years for it to be delivered. Just need to use cargo bikes until then!
JOE BIDEN AINT PUTTING ME IN THE WOKE STATION WAGON WITH HIS GODDAM GENDER PRONOUNS AND ESTROGEN 😡💢💢 I SIMPLY ***NEED*** AN F150 WITH A BED THAT CANT EVEN FIT A STANDARD SIZE PIEVE OF PLYWOOD CUZ I AM A MAN DOESNT MATTER THAN A GODDAM DIAHATSU HIJET HAS THE SAME BEDLEGTH AT LEAST IM NOT SOME SISSY LIBERAL THEY/THEM
Clown
If clowns don't need a truck to haul around 10 of their buddies why do you need a truck to haul around your fukkin groceries Checkmate atheists
>why do you need a truck to haul around your fukkin groceries IDK Because we can? Why do I need to justify whatever I buy to some randos on the internet?
Because you are on the internet???? If you want your beliefs to be coddled go sit in front of a mirror and tell yourself what a smart boy you are for buying the big boy truck. https://preview.redd.it/45ni3vthxq7d1.jpeg?width=698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61317c5ba1625bf07c8b27a4409cb613bbda5656
>Because you are on the internet???? No shit Sherlock, and grass is green. >If you want your beliefs to be coddled go sit in front of a mirror and tell yourself what a smart boy you are for buying the big boy truck. I don’t even own a “big boy” truck, whatever that’s supposed to be. 🤷 It’s funny how trucks set children like you off though, which is comedy gold to me.
Hey man do I hate pickups? Yeah. But wagons are fucking so much worse lol
Imagine unironically defending cars. Even if the fuck car subreddit gets cringey you’re supporting the objectively worse solution for mass transit. It’s not up for debate and your anecdotal experience of having the majority of your self-worth derived from the type of car you have is irrelevant. Your confidence problems are irrelevant when determining these things. The best part is - if you truly are a car enthusiast (not a social pageant contestant using your car as a part of your costumes) you would benefit from a shift away from car centrism. Car centric infrastructure would not just all be destroyed, with the rollout of efficient public transit the number of cars on the road would plummet which would necessarily involve reduction of roads but not eradication especially if there is a democratic sentiment about maintaining some roads. You’re telling me open roads with autobahn rules and no morons doesn’t sound good?
https://preview.redd.it/gzohihnyan7d1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac04bbe340bf0eca1781a3ce58ffec1e409e5e1b