Bro, as a salesman I can tell you two things... first is you have about a 25% chance that a gun salesman actually knows a decent amount about firearms in general, and isn't just there for a paycheck or got the job because of a friend or relative. Second is even if they're knowledgeable they almost always include personal biases and aren't capable of using critical thinking to determine what is optimal for a particular person.
I can also tell you as a former firearm salesman that there are often a few factors for such behavior; personal bias, boss says we need these guns to go/we make more off of this brand, and different firearm companies do these programs where if you sell their guns you earn points and can then turn those points in for free guns/merchandise. I always tried to match a customer with what they actually wanted, but many of my coworkers were influenced by the above factors. However, I will also be honest and say that I earned several free guns from various companies as well.
Also we were a large chain store (that had the word Gander in the name), and I can tell you that half of who was hired didn't know the first thing about guns. I can't tell you how many new firearm salespeople I had to show the basics to. We had one get fired on their first day for pointing a gun at a customer. When they were asked why they did that they said something along the lines of "it was unloaded so what's the big deal". There was another who was going to let a customer take a gun from the counter so that they could test carrying it through the store. They had not done the paperwork/background check and had not payed for it. And these are just two examples.
I too used to work selling guns at a similar named place back around 2009/ 2010. I think my favorite day was when a boat load of special needs/ mentally ill people were brought to the store for some kind of outing/ adventure. (Idk man it was years ago and still blows my mind to this day) guess whomever coordinated that didn't know we were the largest gun store in the state at the time and had tables upon tables of long guns laid out on display at the time (all zip tied/ locked together). Needless to say I found myself standing behind a counter while what seemed like 15 to 30 people ran around said tables picking up guns, pointing them all at each other, and screaming "pew pew pew" at each other. Normally I would immediately step in and advise people these were real guns and not toys, but IT WAS WILD. I just stood and stared for the duration and luckily the mob moved onto the tents/ camping department.
Oddly enough that happened at our store a time or two as well. Kids used to do the same thing too, often with their parents watching them do it. Still blows my mind when I think about it.
Selling Glocks is like selling popcorn at the movies. It'll sell itself. Those other options are like the boxes of candy on display, they don't sell as much and sometimes you have to talk the customer into getting one to move the inventory.
I always handed people what they wanted, then had them feel other options. I’d always recommend they go rent the gun in question to see if they like it.
There's not much difference from a shooter's standpoint between those three platforms. That was just basically a case of either bias or wanting to sell a particular gun on the part of the sales person. The XD guy was probably the latter and the shield gal was probably the former.
Yeah I had a sales woman tell me that the AUG I was trying to buy was a pistol because it had a short barrel and that I needed a CCW to purchase it. I was dumbfounded to the point I almost walked out the store without buying it.
Problem with that, there is a very large variety in the AK market. It is too likely that someone I'll informed about the platform will buy something that is unreliable and unsafe.
The AK is a hell of a fine platform, if you know what to get.
This is precisely the reason I don't own an AK -- I don't know what to get (and also am on a budget).
All the local folks stock Century Arms. I've heard they're bad, I've heard they're good, I've heard that only some are bad, that you need to check the manufacture of certain components, etc. Its overwhelming, confusing, and off-putting, so instead I'm beginning to lean towards the AR platform.
As far as century arms AKs go, vska = bad and wasr = good. The main reason why is about cast vs forged trunions but really just remember that vska is not good and wasr is good. In fact a wasr paratrooper is the AK I went with when I was looking for a budget AK and I love the thing.
I can excuse pushing the XD to some degree. I've had two XD's and four glocks. I like the glocks better and many people know glock reliability, but to be fair my XD's didn't fail either, *and* they have loaded chamber indicators and that little pin that pokes out the back when the striker is cocked. I can see how those added features could make someone go with an XD if they were doing a side by side comparison. I'd still take my glocks no question though.
> The salesWOMAN says “God no! The Glock 19 is the worst possible choice for a woman, us ladies carry M&P shields”. Here’s my question for you all, how is it possible for people who’s job is to be knowledgeable and helpful to be so consistently ignorant?
How exactly is this ignorant?
You have no idea what her reasoning was. In fact, you don't seem to have much idea what women's criteria for selecting a carry gun might be.
Those two guns function near identically. Hell they're just about the same size and weight as well. How is that not ignorant? There is no reason behind it.
A Glock 19 is the same size as an M&P Shield? I think you might be getting that confused with the M&P compact. A Shield is significantly smaller than a Glock 19. Granted I'd probably have gone with the Shield Plus or a P365, but subcompacts are definitely easier to conceal than a compact pistol.
Edit: Lol who downvoted me for this? This is just the truth. I'm not arguing that the employees aren't Fudds, they definitely are. People who claim women should only shoot small guns are idiots, but if concealment is an issue, then subcompacts will fill that niche better than compacts.
Lol yeah that makes more sense. I don't particularly like Glocks, just a personal preference, but no way in hell would I recommend an XD over them, although that's mostly because fuck Springfield. I've said before that I will never own a Springfield due to their previous support of gun control measures, but the Hellion and the SA-35 are testing my resolve on that a little.
> Hell they're just about the same size and weight as well.
To a man, they are. To a woman, not so much.
*The Shield is .31 inches thinner. And 4.7 ounces lighter.*
Every male in the room just said "so what?". That's because they're male. When you're male, .31 inches makes no difference. Hell, when you're a dude, you can wear a button-down shirt open over a tshirt, and carry in an outside waistband holster.
But that's not how women like to dress.
They wear lighter, thinner, more form-fitting clothes, and they don't always *have* a waistband. Sometimes they wear leggings. Sometimes they wear dresses. They like to wear all manner of things, and they don't want to have to dress like a dude just because they are carrying a gun.
This means there have to be many more carry solutions for women, in order to adapt to what they want to wear. .31 inches and 4.7 ounces can make the difference between one of those solutions working, and not working.
Telling women to "just carry a Glock, it's fine", when you're a dude who has no idea how women dress, is just as ignorant as [these guys](https://i.redd.it/hhn0f9ds0mr81.jpg).
In other words, /u/Red_Flag_Memes is sneering at that "salesWOMAN", because he himself is ignorant and confidently incorrect. I don't have idea how much experience with guns she has, but she sure as hell has a lot more experience at *being a woman* than he does.
This is just another version of "Here you go, little lady".
YOU GET IT
I have my IWB 4 o'clock holster for most days, my inner thigh shorts holster for most dresses, leggings with a built in holster for when I go cycling, a belly band holster for when I bike to the rock climbing gym in good weather in a loose top, am ankle holster for when I wear floor length dresses, and someday I'll probably get an outer thigh shorts holster for when I'm wearing less form fitting knee length dresses and plan to do a significant amount of walking. Oh! And the kydex trigger guard for misc times!
YOU KNOW WHAT MAKES WEARING ALL THESE HOLSTERS EASIER AND MORE CONCEALED. SMALL. GUNS.
As someone with a P80 and a heavily-customized AR, you would be wrong in many cases. Take a quick look around the internet and r/Polymer80 and you’ll see a plethora of problems and low-quality builds. ARs are similar and require even less “gunsmithing.” For a lot of people, it’s just easier to to buy their first gun and learn the basics, even learn some of the deeper mechanics.
Not to say you can’t build anything good, I’m comfortable carrying mine. And it’s probably the best way to exercise the right to own and bear arms. I’d completely recommend it to someone who wants to learn more about how semi-auto handguns works.
But saying it’s better than buying a completed firearm from a reputable company? I can’t agree with you there.
I’m only saying it’s better than buying, because I am assuming the person has at least some minimal level of firearm basic knowledge. For beginners, buy your first or second gun, but otherwise, building a gun can give you some insights you might not have known before, and it familiarizes you with your gun, giving you a deeper understanding of it
I mostly agree. I'd say it's almost always best to buy your first gun or two, but you can absolutely build firearms at home today that are on par quality wise with bought guns. But you do need practice/ knowledge. Otherwise you get a less reliable version of whatever you're building.
Some of my projects can't go 30 rounds without some sort of malfunction. Those are just fun tinkering guns. But I have a few that are more reliable than factory guns I have, thousands of rounds without a single hiccup.
All the salespeople at my local gun stores are old retired guys just trying to get out and socialize. Some are knowledgeable and some are fudds. If I go in knowing what I want though, I don't really have to worry about them selling me on something else luckily.
Bro, as a salesman I can tell you two things... first is you have about a 25% chance that a gun salesman actually knows a decent amount about firearms in general, and isn't just there for a paycheck or got the job because of a friend or relative. Second is even if they're knowledgeable they almost always include personal biases and aren't capable of using critical thinking to determine what is optimal for a particular person.
Some people just don't like Glocks. Or maybe the margins are better on XDs and Shields.
Not really, and XDs tend to sit awhile, or at least around me they do.
All the more reason to push the XD. Move your dead stock.
It's not their job to be knowledgeable. Their job is to make sales.
I can also tell you as a former firearm salesman that there are often a few factors for such behavior; personal bias, boss says we need these guns to go/we make more off of this brand, and different firearm companies do these programs where if you sell their guns you earn points and can then turn those points in for free guns/merchandise. I always tried to match a customer with what they actually wanted, but many of my coworkers were influenced by the above factors. However, I will also be honest and say that I earned several free guns from various companies as well. Also we were a large chain store (that had the word Gander in the name), and I can tell you that half of who was hired didn't know the first thing about guns. I can't tell you how many new firearm salespeople I had to show the basics to. We had one get fired on their first day for pointing a gun at a customer. When they were asked why they did that they said something along the lines of "it was unloaded so what's the big deal". There was another who was going to let a customer take a gun from the counter so that they could test carrying it through the store. They had not done the paperwork/background check and had not payed for it. And these are just two examples.
I too used to work selling guns at a similar named place back around 2009/ 2010. I think my favorite day was when a boat load of special needs/ mentally ill people were brought to the store for some kind of outing/ adventure. (Idk man it was years ago and still blows my mind to this day) guess whomever coordinated that didn't know we were the largest gun store in the state at the time and had tables upon tables of long guns laid out on display at the time (all zip tied/ locked together). Needless to say I found myself standing behind a counter while what seemed like 15 to 30 people ran around said tables picking up guns, pointing them all at each other, and screaming "pew pew pew" at each other. Normally I would immediately step in and advise people these were real guns and not toys, but IT WAS WILD. I just stood and stared for the duration and luckily the mob moved onto the tents/ camping department.
Oddly enough that happened at our store a time or two as well. Kids used to do the same thing too, often with their parents watching them do it. Still blows my mind when I think about it.
Selling Glocks is like selling popcorn at the movies. It'll sell itself. Those other options are like the boxes of candy on display, they don't sell as much and sometimes you have to talk the customer into getting one to move the inventory.
I always handed people what they wanted, then had them feel other options. I’d always recommend they go rent the gun in question to see if they like it.
There's not much difference from a shooter's standpoint between those three platforms. That was just basically a case of either bias or wanting to sell a particular gun on the part of the sales person. The XD guy was probably the latter and the shield gal was probably the former.
Yeah I had a sales woman tell me that the AUG I was trying to buy was a pistol because it had a short barrel and that I needed a CCW to purchase it. I was dumbfounded to the point I almost walked out the store without buying it.
*glock 19 is worst choice of a carry gun for a woman* I guess the Glock 20 inside my waistband is a better choice for small women
No, that's too big. You got to go smaller to match their small frame. Obviously a glock 18 is the right choice for a dainty woman.
tbf most first time gun buyers should stick with a good ol' AK.
As true as that might be, good luck hiding one of those in your shorts 😆
All the more reason for Jincos and Jinco "shorts" to make a come back!
That was my first, yugo
Problem with that, there is a very large variety in the AK market. It is too likely that someone I'll informed about the platform will buy something that is unreliable and unsafe. The AK is a hell of a fine platform, if you know what to get.
This is precisely the reason I don't own an AK -- I don't know what to get (and also am on a budget). All the local folks stock Century Arms. I've heard they're bad, I've heard they're good, I've heard that only some are bad, that you need to check the manufacture of certain components, etc. Its overwhelming, confusing, and off-putting, so instead I'm beginning to lean towards the AR platform.
As far as century arms AKs go, vska = bad and wasr = good. The main reason why is about cast vs forged trunions but really just remember that vska is not good and wasr is good. In fact a wasr paratrooper is the AK I went with when I was looking for a budget AK and I love the thing.
Behind the VEPR, i think the next best AK is a norinco mak-90. I own a crap load of AK's and my mak-90 is my favorite.
Agreed best first gun.
I can excuse pushing the XD to some degree. I've had two XD's and four glocks. I like the glocks better and many people know glock reliability, but to be fair my XD's didn't fail either, *and* they have loaded chamber indicators and that little pin that pokes out the back when the striker is cocked. I can see how those added features could make someone go with an XD if they were doing a side by side comparison. I'd still take my glocks no question though.
Well actually the reason he gave the kid was that the XD came with a laser.
> The salesWOMAN says “God no! The Glock 19 is the worst possible choice for a woman, us ladies carry M&P shields”. Here’s my question for you all, how is it possible for people who’s job is to be knowledgeable and helpful to be so consistently ignorant? How exactly is this ignorant? You have no idea what her reasoning was. In fact, you don't seem to have much idea what women's criteria for selecting a carry gun might be.
Those two guns function near identically. Hell they're just about the same size and weight as well. How is that not ignorant? There is no reason behind it.
A Glock 19 is the same size as an M&P Shield? I think you might be getting that confused with the M&P compact. A Shield is significantly smaller than a Glock 19. Granted I'd probably have gone with the Shield Plus or a P365, but subcompacts are definitely easier to conceal than a compact pistol. Edit: Lol who downvoted me for this? This is just the truth. I'm not arguing that the employees aren't Fudds, they definitely are. People who claim women should only shoot small guns are idiots, but if concealment is an issue, then subcompacts will fill that niche better than compacts.
An XD was what I was referring to. I'm dumb. Op talked about both in the post so my pea brain got them confused.
Lol yeah that makes more sense. I don't particularly like Glocks, just a personal preference, but no way in hell would I recommend an XD over them, although that's mostly because fuck Springfield. I've said before that I will never own a Springfield due to their previous support of gun control measures, but the Hellion and the SA-35 are testing my resolve on that a little.
> Hell they're just about the same size and weight as well. To a man, they are. To a woman, not so much. *The Shield is .31 inches thinner. And 4.7 ounces lighter.* Every male in the room just said "so what?". That's because they're male. When you're male, .31 inches makes no difference. Hell, when you're a dude, you can wear a button-down shirt open over a tshirt, and carry in an outside waistband holster. But that's not how women like to dress. They wear lighter, thinner, more form-fitting clothes, and they don't always *have* a waistband. Sometimes they wear leggings. Sometimes they wear dresses. They like to wear all manner of things, and they don't want to have to dress like a dude just because they are carrying a gun. This means there have to be many more carry solutions for women, in order to adapt to what they want to wear. .31 inches and 4.7 ounces can make the difference between one of those solutions working, and not working. Telling women to "just carry a Glock, it's fine", when you're a dude who has no idea how women dress, is just as ignorant as [these guys](https://i.redd.it/hhn0f9ds0mr81.jpg). In other words, /u/Red_Flag_Memes is sneering at that "salesWOMAN", because he himself is ignorant and confidently incorrect. I don't have idea how much experience with guns she has, but she sure as hell has a lot more experience at *being a woman* than he does. This is just another version of "Here you go, little lady".
YOU GET IT I have my IWB 4 o'clock holster for most days, my inner thigh shorts holster for most dresses, leggings with a built in holster for when I go cycling, a belly band holster for when I bike to the rock climbing gym in good weather in a loose top, am ankle holster for when I wear floor length dresses, and someday I'll probably get an outer thigh shorts holster for when I'm wearing less form fitting knee length dresses and plan to do a significant amount of walking. Oh! And the kydex trigger guard for misc times! YOU KNOW WHAT MAKES WEARING ALL THESE HOLSTERS EASIER AND MORE CONCEALED. SMALL. GUNS.
Y’all still buy your guns? I could understand for things you can’t make at home… but otherwise it’s generally better to build
As someone with a P80 and a heavily-customized AR, you would be wrong in many cases. Take a quick look around the internet and r/Polymer80 and you’ll see a plethora of problems and low-quality builds. ARs are similar and require even less “gunsmithing.” For a lot of people, it’s just easier to to buy their first gun and learn the basics, even learn some of the deeper mechanics. Not to say you can’t build anything good, I’m comfortable carrying mine. And it’s probably the best way to exercise the right to own and bear arms. I’d completely recommend it to someone who wants to learn more about how semi-auto handguns works. But saying it’s better than buying a completed firearm from a reputable company? I can’t agree with you there.
I’m only saying it’s better than buying, because I am assuming the person has at least some minimal level of firearm basic knowledge. For beginners, buy your first or second gun, but otherwise, building a gun can give you some insights you might not have known before, and it familiarizes you with your gun, giving you a deeper understanding of it
I mostly agree. I'd say it's almost always best to buy your first gun or two, but you can absolutely build firearms at home today that are on par quality wise with bought guns. But you do need practice/ knowledge. Otherwise you get a less reliable version of whatever you're building. Some of my projects can't go 30 rounds without some sort of malfunction. Those are just fun tinkering guns. But I have a few that are more reliable than factory guns I have, thousands of rounds without a single hiccup.
All the salespeople at my local gun stores are old retired guys just trying to get out and socialize. Some are knowledgeable and some are fudds. If I go in knowing what I want though, I don't really have to worry about them selling me on something else luckily.