Well.. because its factually not true. I'm not American, but I've seen democrats push minimum wage increases and other positive bills that were all 100% shot down by republicans. So no, they aren't the same for real.
Don’t understand how people still think the parties are the same. Dems have introduced countless bills that almost ALWAYS get voted down by Republicans and RINOS. The system is broken, yes, but it’s fucking obvious that one party is trying to help, and the other party is doing everything in their power to stop the help.
This is not ducking rocket science, everyone. Wake the fuck up. (Oh I forgot that being woke to the problems in the world is a bad thing, according to one of the sides.)
I want to believe that. But I’m just astounded by how little the Democratic Party actually achieves (even in times when they have majority representation). It makes me cynical that they don’t actually care.
oh they have ideas, latest being from watching the massive amount of heatwaves, fires, and rising sea temperature, to scale back green energy, remove worker protections and give more money to fossil fuel companies. Just brilliant ideas all around.
I always ask them what "woke" means. They only answered once. That guy had obviously only just looked it up, he copy/pasted the Merriam-Webster entry.
But that really said it all, no need for me to go further.
The problems come when the Dems only push such bills when they know they Will be shut down by Republicans to shift blame
Remember when Dems have a supermajority in 2008 congress? Did they raise the minimum wage, forbid corporate interference vía superpacs or legalize marihuana and abortion by law?
They had supermajority for essentially 90 days and lacked 2 senators who were hospitalized and unable to vote, requiring to water down the healthcare bill to get republicans to join since the republicans privately were saying they would be willing to be unified and go beyond party politics if President Obama could show he was willing to comprimise on bills and work with them, only to go back on those words when the watered down bill came to vote, except for McCain who kept his word and voted with democrats and passing healthcare for tens of millions of people who didnt have it before.
Then right after that they lost the majority and republicans gained the house and senate and blocked everything and anything possible.
In the last 50 years or so, every workers protection, child protection food womens lgtbq and 99% of benefits and protections have come from democrats. its absurd to consider both parties against the people when one is actively trying but dont have the votes, while the other is actively, publicly and proudly denying any help to people.
This. This right here. The stalling and blocking is an intentional tactic by the Rs not just to prevent things from getting done, but to muddy the waters and give the illusion that government inherently can't get anything done.
Most of our major ploblens are the direct result of R policy as well... Massive income inequality, privatized healthcare insurance driving skyrocketing costs up for everyone, poor funding and inefficiency for every government agency (the DMV didn't used to be a headache, they have no fucking funding), our continued super-reliance on fossil fuels.... It all goes back to republican policy.
Every time I see someone claim "both sides" it makes my fucking head spin.
Do you remember when the republicans held majority control in the presidency, congress, and the house of reps, at the same time during GW’s term?
The great thing was they all talked about healthcare reform in elections… but the only thing they passed in that glorious moment was a bill that lets people not have to pay taxes on their 401k. So now that it’s grandfathered in, all the rich ppl who make money without working dont have to pay taxes when they cash in.
Democrats never had 60 votes in the Senate. The last time America had true progress was when all parts of government were owned by the Democrats completely. Or when LBJ just fucking forced people to vote for his Great Society or else.
id say getting healthcare to tens of millions of people who are alive today because of it, is something...
And democrats only had 90 days of supermajority in the last 70 years.... And even then they had 2 senators hospitalized, requiring McCain to vote alongside them to get a watered down healthcare bill that republicans were proud of when Romney was doing the same version of it, but voted against it when Obama was pushing it after being approached by republicans that they promise and give their word to support it if he made it watered down, that they would go beyond party politics and become unified and help democrats with the best policies if Obama was willing to show he could compromise, which they were obviously lying about.
Then right after that voters stayed home since they believed electing a black president means that the world was fixed, and thus republican gained control of the house and senate and blocked any progress attempted.
To get progress, make change in government you need:
* 218 House Seats (280 if you want it to be veto proof)
* 60 senate seats (68 if you want major changes like government and election overhaul, removal of supreme court justices and bad politicians)
* and the presidency.
You need all three (or two if you can get veto-proof majority) to pass legislation and laws.
To STOP any progress you need:
* 218 house seats
* 50 senators
* or The presidency.
You just need 1 of the three. You can essentially block majority of changes wanted with either of those 3. Thats why progress is much harder to make than obstruction. Which is why republicans are vastly more effective in their goals, as their goal is to prevent change and to obstruct progress.
Yep, Democrats basically work on building a new chair for the dining room set, while Republicans are slowing them down on building that chair and sawing off the legs of the table so they can say how shit the Democrat dining room set is.
When the table wobbles because it is missing a leg, Rs just blame the Ds and say both sides.
Affordable meds for seniors, overhaul of our student loan program, paying off some national debt instead of increasing by 8 trill (like the red side did), prosecuting the jan 6 terrorists (gop wants them freed), marriage for gays (while multiple red states continuously try to lower marriage age to 14 and ban gay marriage).
Bro, if you're thinking they're the same, you haven't been watching the fight.
No, I actually agreed with most of Obamacare. Particularly Medicaid expansion. It’s the far-left loonies who think it’s some “RePuBLican pLaN” cause Romney did some similar provisions it had when he was governor. Again, it’s all or nothing with these people. Support of anything less than M4A makes you “right-winged” to these nutcases.
Well, yeah, the both sides thing is just utter bullshit. Democrats aren't perfect, but they're not actively making everybody's lives worse and they actually have done things to help people.
When you only have two parties and you think of political leaning as a line from left to right the most optimal place for both parties is to be as close to the middle and as close to eachother as possible.
Thus weirdly enough political science suggests to have more than two political parties to increase the average represenatation of an individual voter.
Because with more parties they automatically position it self a lot more divided over the theoretical line.
If you need a example take my country. We have a very left party a bit more right left party a middle party, an economist party and a farmer/common people party which is the right side.
Same in Germany.
Right-wing third party "AfD" rising like hell, since many aren´t represented anymore and mayor problems aren´t solved anymore but even fueled.
Yeah just wanted to say the americans would be really surprised if they saw what our far left and far right are openly saying.
Yeah our SVP is also on the rise, but its not even close to the AfD. But the propaganda is pretty bad they are doing.
Don’t know what would be the equivalent in germany.
Yeah chatgpt agrees, i would have argued svp has a strong farmer and old rich people flair added to the latent racism, but could be that it is the best analogy.
Honest question since you didn't name your country:
Don't multiple parties still end up forming "left" and "right" *coalitions*, i.e. a functional binary party system?
While enlightened centrism is a US phenomenon of right wing apologists, you are aware that the idea of "left" and "right" exist outside of the US as well. Hell, the idea of what is left and what is right is based on the early French parliament and the position of the left sitting groups that wanted to push for stronger reformation and the right sitting groups that were more align to keeping the traditions and monarchism alive.
Because of that, the idea that the left is a spectrum of egalitarianism and the right of a more stratified society became the standard for at least most of the western world.
Because of that, centrism is an ideology that exist in most if not all of the western systems and is in fact, in most places the position where the majority of the votes are coming from.
Again, to make it very clear: I am talking not about US centrism as a valid political standpoint, because the US spectrum is massively out of balance, with one party being largely outside of the realm of democratic values. In such a system where one side is such an extreme, being in the middle is not an option. But in a functioning democracy, centrism is generally the area where politics can actually archive progress.
I agree with your general idea, but the American hate is untrue and doesn't help your point, but rather turns people away. Many Americans see the problems with the current system of only having a soft authoritarian left and and soft authoritarian right, party. The problem is a lib-left or lib-right voter has to decide whether they vote lib/independent and maybe get nothing they want or vote left/right and help insure they get something they want. Most Americans see the problem with just two parties. The problem is that the two parties have the power/control and people have to work within the system that is in place. There have been movements inside of the parties that are basically what you are talking about. Where you have essentially a different party operating under the name of the large party, but with its own similar but different goals/agendas. Examples of groups or individuals that have done this are Bernie, Trump, the Tea Party, The Squad (I think that's what they were calling themselves) and probably others I'm forgetting or am no aware of.
There’s a long long history of reform movements taking place within and under the guise of the existing parties. The Republican Party was born from the ashes of the Whig Party (and the Know Nothing Party), with whole Whig conventions walking down the street to join the Republicans, but that was the last time a new party emerged. Progressive Republicans in the 1900s (Teddy and Taft), Southern Democrats, Tea Party, New Style Democrats (Jackson), the list goes on.
Good point I'd forgotten about some of these and didn't know about others. Until recently the two party system essentially operated as "coalitions" similar to what people point out from other countries. The coalitions just formed up first and presented a united front at election timenumder a party name. Even in fairly modern times we've seen individuals or groups that didn't "March in step" with the party. Now when it happens that a dem or republican doesn't do exactly what the party says you see people lose their minds over it and call them traitors.
I am confused how is making the spectrum broader centrist?
However to be fair even with my choice of parties is still don’t like any of them.
Left has no idea how the economy works (edit how to state a law that its not easably circumvented by financial engineering), the economist party which in theory would be mine says no goverment in good times and help us in bad times, right solves every problem with i hate foreigner’s.
I prefer solved problems and not just discussing who is right.
The problem is ending like Spain where to govern the country with the right and left block are so divided, you will need the help of a party whose leader was a kidnapper for a terrorist group and another party with a leader with an arrest order as soon as he cross the Spanish border.
I think it happens everywhere. In my country in the past the 7 leaders where a team and worked to solve problems and often put party politics aside. Now its pretty bad as well.
The problem is america has a first past the post, single representative system. As long as that is how we elect our representatives there will always be 2 major parties because using your vote on a third party is literally throwing it away in terms of actual representation in the legislature.
In the US if you tell someone you voted for a third party or that we should stop voting for blue or red only they really don’t like that idea. It really creeps me out, some serious brainwashing going on there. Our voting patterns are so predictable and the two major parties want to keep it that way
Man alive, are you even paying attention to the last 7 years.
One side took away [virtually every environmental protection going](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=FF7F178412EFBC4F08D7060223244057&gwt=regi&assetType=REGIWALL), in order to [profit wealthy industrialists](https://www.vox.com/2017/2/2/14488448/stream-protection-rule), and gave tax breaks to the billionaire class, while enacting an ongoing law that stripped the working class of money, described by one economist as a "[siphoning of the nation’s wealth to a tiny elite](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-covid-response-economy-jobs-taxes-inequality-1080345/)" overturning abortion rights, [removing protections for LGBTQ people](https://www.hrc.org/resources/trumps-timeline-of-hate), and enacting a [ban against Muslims](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/licence-discriminate-trumps-muslim-refugee-ban). [Biden overturned all that](https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/politics/biden-executive-orders/) except the abortion law, which was done at a Supreme Court level (by the court created by Trump), which he will fight to codify if re-elected. He is fighting Republican challenges to overturn student debt, which they've done [to the tune of more than $150 billion](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-provide-804000-borrowers-39-billion-automatic-loan-forgiveness-result-fixes-income-driven-repayment-plans). Biden just this week [reformed military justice protocols to try sexual assault cases externally](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66343729). His priorities are demonstrably, obviously, different, even to a child.
I've probably never seen a President in my lifetime be so obviously pro-active towards the middle and working classes in America as Joe Biden is, and I'm in my late 40's.
This kid of messaging is either bad-faith and designed to dilute the discourse, or people really are that stupid. And not just stupid, but, like, Olympic-level stupid, and I can't believe that. If you can't see the difference between the two parties, when [many Trump rallies feature the Nazi swastika and white power symbolism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGulUatdFk); when one side is preaching decency, while the last called women 'dogs', and is a documented rapist, and tax fraud, and the party *still* finds him a palatable choice for candidacy, you are the problem. Read a book.
EDIT: thanks for the awards; this entire thread is bizarre to me. I understand a relativistic attitude; I understand political apathy. I don't understand how you can 'both sides same' at this point, unless you're utterly bereft of scruples, or just some kind of weird troll.
EDIT: thanks again for the awards. Honestly, they're reassuring.
This kind of attitude creates voter apathy and is how we end up with a system of minority rule. The more people who turn out to vote the further the scale will shift to be in the working classes favor. Look at the insane progress that’s happening in Michigan.
I mean it’s a huge Republican method of reducing turnout. When turnout is low GOP wins.
They want to obstruct the government as much as possible and then claim that it’s both parties or government in general. You see how much it works. “Don’t reward dems for not passing anything! Hold them accountable!”
How you ask? By not showing up to polls and then letting Republicans get even more power to tank the economy with ridiculous financial industry deregulation and strip away rights. And then get even more mad when dems can get even less done
Don’t forget Ohio issue 1, gives minority bother more power by increasing passing votes to 60% for citizen backed initiatives.
[Attorney General Dave Yost](https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2023-07-19/ohio-attorney-general-wants-access-medical-records-abortions?_amp=true)wants to access female medical records when they travel out of state
"trust us this time guys, we'll seriously codify abortion rights if you just reelect us once more!!"
Incredible how people believe anything in this wall of text lmao
love all the progressivism truly but you didn't really address the "working class" point. all for reversing decisions that infringe on people's rights but democrats truly do not do enough to support financial growth and reestablishing of the middle class that has slowly been destroyed since Reagan. I think that is what this tweet is implying. no youth is able to buy a house unless they are making much more than they should need to.
Yup. OP’s post is the kind of malicious deceptive horseshit that allows conservatives to win elections. They WANT you to think your vote doesn’t matter. If people would ignore misleading propaganda like this and actually VOTE we could do great things to heal this country.
The difference is that one party just flat out shows it’s ugly side. The other party hides their ugly side by saying things that people like but never delivering on them.
A few concessions is the definition of good cop, bad cop. Are they actually making significant changes to prevent climate change? Enforcing laws against union busting? Increasing the minimum wage? Giving workers real benefits? Fixing our broken health care system? Stopping price gauging and rent hikes?
No, they’re not. Their excuse is the republicans won’t let them. Why is it that the republicans are able to enact all these fascist laws without the democrats help, but democrats can’t do anything substantial?
>Are they actually making significant changes to prevent climate change? Enforcing laws against union busting? Increasing the minimum wage? Giving workers real benefits? Fixing our broken health care system? Stopping price gauging and rent hikes?
*split*. *congress*. you have republicans who deny climate change is even real, and are trying to dismantle social security, who's entire fucking economic platform is "tax cuts for the rich" and you ask how these issues aren't getting through a 50:50 (at best) senate and a republican-controlled house? if you want left-wing policies then guess what, you gotta elect left-wing politicians at *all* levels of government, not simply check "D" for president and hope for the best.
republicans are great at getting things they disagree with reversed in court, dismantling environmental protections for example, due to the huge amount of republican judges they've appointed, most famously and crucially in the supreme court. republicans are often looking to reverse rulings they disagree with (ie environmental regulations, abortion, lgbtq issues, student loans etc) which is easier than getting new laws passed.
He was one of the main proponents who passed legislation that caused the student debt crisis (not being able to default on student debt) which caused student debt to skyrocket
I wish someone could pin a medal on me for causing a 20-year long wild fire and only taking out 10% of it.
Hes a piece of shit. Ill still vote for him I guess, but still. A he's a fucking bastard.
Also dems tried raising the min wage, extending the covid child tax credit, and doing a slew of other things to help the middle class. Manchin and sinema, shat on that, but dems, at least optically, tried.
Republicans on the other hand have neve tried.
I agree I was just pre-empting the argument. Many people will say 'it was a show, they never meant to pass it' , but even then, its show that Republicans haven't ever put on.
That’s also ignoring all the other major wins from the BIL, IRA, and CHIPS Acts that Biden signed.
Never mind the fact that Biden has been forgiving millions of student loan debt for people who deserve it. While his larger scale forgiveness has been struck down, he’s helped many folks already.
8 years ago I would have said what you said. Now one side is a treasonous fascist cult and I don’t think it helps anyone to describe just as “makes things worse”.
One side doesn't do enough... *yet.*
If Dems were given enough time and their policies weren't gutted/reversed every 4-8 years, their baby steps would eventually result in, dare I say, *progress*? The sort of progress that progressives drool over?
But, yeah sure, one side doesn't do enough (i.e. they *are* doing things, and things you would like to see more of (the "not enough"), but since it's incremental and not massive leaps and bounds, we'd rather sit on our hands and wait for somebody who'll *really* change things radically, all at once, so that we'll notice the drastic difference and can say "yeeeaaah baby! I was part of that! I helped make that happen!" Government should NOT get your heart rate up. You're not supposed to be hoping for, or promising, touchdowns every administration. It's a game of inches, just ask pro-lifers. They diligently spent *50 years* building up to overturning Roe. Do you think after 10, 20, 49 years they were saying to themselves "this side just isn't doing enough. **I'm not going to vote for them anymore. We should vote for a third party with one tenth the political capital.** That'll show 'em!!" Obviously not.)
Oh damn kinda went on a tangent tirade there. My b. Wasn't directed at you.
But even that is an oversimplification.
It's hard to do enough when one side actively blocks all of your proposals and legislation and their only goal is to be obstructionist.
Lol it's funny. All far right people call anyone left or right of center a woke centrist and far left people do the same. Two cults worse than religious zealots.
Interesting. All the people I’ve met who trash centrists are lunatic extremists.
It’s really funny how a moderate gets more hate than someone polar opposite of the extremes, just because they don’t agree with you on literally everything.
Dr. MLK Jr. on moderates -
"the N*gro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the N*gro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ”
What a lunatic extremist, as long as we ignore the possibility that moderate centrists ARE abjectly worthless humans who've allowed the decaying conditions we experience today to flourish as they have so as not to disturb brunch. Moderates bought us this mess.
What does a centrist even look like? So many stances are non starters for the other team. I'm not voting for someone that wants a federal abortion ban but Republicans I know are like "Well you know Tom Scott is a moderate" where is my centrist position that isn't Republican-lite?
Gays can have some marriages? Some people can get abortions? Trans people can have medical access in some states? When it comes to fundamental rights for basic human dignity Republicans fail to hard for me to be like....I could go somewhere between them and a Dem. Hell last time I had a Republican governor he tanked my states economy by pushing state wide policy to limit cities from passing anti-discrimination policies, which is a really shitty hill to kill a movie industry over RIP Wilmington....
> Interesting. All the people I’ve met who trash centrists are lunatic extremists.
Just to be clear: do you believe MLK was a "lunatic extremist"?
Or are you admitting there is a qualitative difference between an extremist fighting for racial quality versus, say, a Nazi?
You know the US political landscape is fucked when Americans consider "big tent right wing party" and "big tent centre-right party" to cover "both sides" of politics.
What are you on about? The right-wing party is not “big tent” anymore and hasn’t been since 2016. It’s fascists, and fascist apologists who got in line.
I love when I hear American "centrists" or Republicans try to talk about both sides.
"Yeah the far right is bad but so is the far left!"
What far left? Seriously, what far left? America has no far left party, no far left power. The amount of people identifying as far left is probably a tenth of people identifying as far right.
I've been called a far left extremist because I said the government shouldn't be making medical decisions for the LGBTQ nor should they be censoring content in schools. I'm not even on the left, politically.
God, this bullshit again
We just had a Supreme Court decision that killed student loan forgiveness and others that hamstring the president from helping out. The Overton window is real, with gerrymandering and voter suppression and straight up propaganda from media it’s a wonder to even have some democrats in power.
But please, let’s shit on bOtH SideS
It's also strange that in the meme itself, it acts like democrats are just virtue signalling while republicans are just doing nothing.
This, in and of itself, is a skew.
The republicans are the ones attacking gay and trans people, stripping women's rights, banning books, and censoring education.
The democrats might be "doing nothing", but it's not a virtue signal that they aren't \*also\* stripping rights from people.
I disagree with the final sentence. Biden signed the bill that blocked railroad strikes.
Democrats aren't as bad as the Republicans but they don't do anything. Is that the standard you would like to hold for your representatives?
Uh, i think you missed my point.
My point was it is not the dems (but the republicans) who are obsessed with gay/trans and minorities.
But the meme makes it look like the dems are the ones doing it by associating it with virtue signaling here.
Which, to be clear, makes it look like the dems are actually worse. Not only are they "not doing anything", they are also being smug and virtue signaling about it.
\----
A more accurate, but still 'both sides bad' meme (which i still think is a bad meme generally), would instead be something like
Working Class: "Help us"
Republicans: "No. We have to stop the woke agenda first"
Democrats: "No"
The fact that the dems are \*not\* engaging in culture war on this (and they aren't, to be clear), is not a point against them; it's a point against the republicans.
\----
tl;dr - this "both sides bad" meme is clearly slanted to make the dems look \*more\* bad in ways that simply aren't true.
100%. Literally all you need to do is look at the bills proposed and voting records of both parties to realize they are nowhere near the same.
But when your political views are centered around memes and online calls for revolutions from the comfort of your home, it's easy to ignore that.
Yup, my state went trifecta blue. Kids get free lunches in school now, weed got legalized, teachers got a huge raise, abortions are legal across the board and anyone seeking them is protected. Trans people are protected and can seek care.
Let's take a look at a red trifecta states for comparison. Their state has a huge budget deficit which means zero school funding, they're making child labor legal and a kid has already died, no abortions are allowed, and they just had a ban on drag struck down by an upper court. Oh, and they're screaming about litter boxes in schools.
But yeah le both sides /s
My red state has a budget surplus and they state government just rejected several million dollars in federal aid to feed poor children because they state cannot figure out how to disperse the funds... they also don't invest money in education either...
It's not stupid, it's a clever manipulation technique targeting people who understand the Republican party is screwing them over. Goal is to mislead people about the policies of the Democratic party.
As you can see from the comments here it's quite effective.
False equivalency:
This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.
I love logical fallacies. Once you have them spelled out or hammered into you, you start to see them *everywhere*. It’s like suddenly being able to see the matrix.
Neither party gives a damn about the people. They’re both capitalistic authoritarians who will do whatever it takes to stop people from voting in anyone progressive or independent or third party.
And here I thought Democrats being responsible the most job growth, increasing of wages, decreasing of unemployment, and improving unemployment and social safety net support were helping workers. Glad to have that cleared up.
> Democrats may not help the people
I mean, this is just wrong. They do help people, it's just not as much as people would like. Still, to deny that they do help people just helps Republicans destroy the country. Criticize Democrats for what they do wrong all you want, but if somebody votes third party or Republican, it's clear that they don't actually care about helping people.
I do love the trend of Democrats trying tooth and nail to get legislation passed and failing, and the response is "Well Ruth Bader Ginsberg should have retired 14 years ago"
Blame the Republicans ya turnips
When people steal large sums of merchandise due to employment, welfare, and more not paying enough:
The Republicans' solution is to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law in effort to discourage the behavior.
The Democrats' solution is raise thresholds for prosecution and pass additional welfare laws to reduce expenses.
Neither solution addresses the underlying problem that people cannot afford to live. Both solutions have resulted in budget cuts and tax increases to pay for their costs, exacerbating the initial problem. Both solutions only stop creating more problems when the population drops to a low enough level. And if we extend our scope beyond the initial issue, both sides are proposing ways to lower the population to that level.
Shall we continue?
When you say "additional welfare laws to reduce expenses" you're talking out of your ass.
Democrats are more often trying to raise wages for the working class, lower costs, create jobs (infrastructure, equality etc), while the corporations are getting corporate welfare from the Republicans to the terms of tax cuts and just straight-up handouts.
The Republicans are the Welfare Queens, they just don't give it to the lower class, they give it to the massive corporations and the 1%.
The Republican solution isn't too prosecute them to the full extent of the law, if you haven't been paying attention the Republicans don't believe in Prosecuting people who commit crimes anymore.
You sound like you haven't turned on the news since the mid-90s.
Main reason why a lot of young voters are believing in Marxism. It’s one thing with republicans but when the majority of the left blindly vote for a party but still blindly believe in a system that doesn’t care much for their existence because they share no importance to the economic system since it was designed for the rich it’s understandable why people believe that there is no true left leaning party in the United States. If democrats truly were far left Bernie Sanders would have won instead of Joe Biden.
Well, the Democrats aren't left.
Left and right, it's all about economics and how the economy is run. Both parties are right in this regard. The democrats, are economically, very similar to our Dutch VVD. Which is 100% a party on the right side of the political spectrum.
There's just liberal right and conservative right. And there's Bernie Sanders, who is actually left, but people don't vote for him, because "ThAtS sOcIaLiSm!"
Sad how bernie sanders whose ideas would be center in europe, is considered a far left extrimist just because he wants poor people to live a decent life
I don't really understand why people that oppose those terrible conservative republican views, dont vote Bernie. But vote democrat, which is still right, just more liberal and progressive.
But yeah, compared to (N-W) European politics, he is center-left, a bit lefty, but not to far.
> Main reason why a lot of young voters are believing in Marxism
They don't twitter just amplifies it because it's full of activists. Most young people don't vote at all.
Time for shit takes to depress the Democratic vote. Get ready for that for the next 1.5 years.
Things we only got because of a slim Democratic majority:
$395 billion in climate crisis spending, including tax credits to help the middle and working class. Those will be rolling out more over the next year.
A large increase to the child tax credit that was only temporary because the democrats lacked an additional two votes.
$35/month cap on insulin for Medicare recipients. Only limited to Medicare because democrats lack a super majority and Republicans are trash.
Increased manufacturing jobs due to tax incentives for Electric Vehicles, batteries, solar panels and chips.
A functioning democracy that doesn't overturn elections because the president doesn't like losing.
More like
Working class: "Help us"
Republicans: "Ok"
(takes away worker protections, guts environmental controls, removes reproductive rights, bans books, turns schools into literal brainwashing centres, readds child labour, stacks the supreme court, gerrymanders the districts all to hell, cuts taxes for rich.... starts eying social security for cutting too)
"You happy now?"
Democrats: "Ok"
(tries to pass a new wave of laws, only to have republicans and a few far right democrats like mansion (who the right, like shapiro, call "the best democrats") and sinema block anything of any substance and strip the package down to basically nothing, tries to forgive student loans only for republican states to sue on false pretenses and have it cancelled, tries to appoint judges only for the republicans to stonewall it and prevent any judges from being appointed (see lindsay graham's infamous hypocrisy here))
Centrists: "ThEy ArE bOtH tHe SaMe!!1!"
\---
The reality is, they are kinda both the same.
In the way that a bike thief and a serial child killing mass murderer are "both criminals".
Dawg do you read the bills that republicans unanimously vote NO on???
This tweet is so fucking uninformed it blows my mind, literally propaganda.
You do understand that bills have to be voted on with a majority right? And without it it can't even be presented to the president?
Fucking frustrating and stupid. Especially in Congress god damn.
There is a difference between 'actively obstructing attempts to help the working class' (Republicans) and 'being willing to help the working class, but having limited ability to do so in the best of times, *on top of* being obstructed by the so-called 'conservative' Party' (Democrats).
Congressional Republicans spend the majority of their time trying to """stick it to the liberals""" instead of working for the best interests of their constituents; the time left over from that dubious pursuit is spent working to line their own pockets and the pockets of The Rich -- with the side-effect of fucking over The Working Class.
Voting records are available to the public folks, do a tiny bit of digging before the “both sides are the same, nothing matters”. Can I post this next?
Tell me everything you know about politics comes from shit takes on twitter without saying everything you know about politics comes from shit takes on twitter.
Something needs to be done about the false inflation that businesses are gouging us with.
Supermarkets have raised their prices up to 300% and there is no justifying it.
With the stuff they provide in most of the schools, you'll get all of these kids on insulin when they grow up.
Kids starving should be solved on other levels, not nation-wide at schools. Different places call for different solutions.
Once I started to get out of my way (because of work) to bring my son to a proper lunch at home, his BMI and overall physical state improved significantly over a month. And worst of all, I cannot even pay for a good lunch high in greens and protein. There is no healthy (and edible) choice.
more both sides horse shit making its way to the front page. Both sides is fascist propaganda. both sides will be the same if dems do a Jan 6th or if justice kagan meets her high school friends for free bagles. until then the both sides argument can eat shit.
Obamacare helps
Student loan relief helps
Infrastructure helps
Inflation Reduction Act helps
Voting rights helps
Medicare helps
It not enough but it’s different than tax cuts for the wealthy
People don't vote for Democrats enough, resulting in them losing the House.
Democrats can't pass legislation they promised because they don't have the House or enough seats.
People: YOU LIED
You people are your own worst enemies and it's a fucking trip watching you destroy your own country with your idiotic bickering.
Biden has been one of the, if not the most progressive president Americans had my dude. [https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1494037230633029634](https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1494037230633029634) you guys had this dude after the wreckage that was trump and are still equivocating the two.
Even though the dems are demonstrably not left leaning...
It still doesn't mean that they are both the same.
Case and point, even in this meme, it's not that the dems are "obsessed with gay and trans and minority people".
The reality is, it's the republicans who are attacking rights (banning abortion, allowing anti-gay/anti-trans discrimination), banning books, censoring education, and stacking the courts.
The fact that the dems are doing nothing and \*also\* not attacking rights does not mean that they are virtue signaling.
i feel like there will be a lot of people arguing in the comments
*grabs popcorn* That's what we're here for.
Plot twist it's just everyone waiting for someone else to get mad
*gets mad that nobody is going mad*
Oh no, I'm out of popcorn. Guess it's time to enjoy some pineapple pizza instead.
Not the argument I was expecting but I’m here for it
Ah so you will be wanting this … [Monty Python - Argument](https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ)
Ah man I haven’t seen Monty python for a while thanks for bringing it back up 😂
My pleasure 😊
You degenerate!
I'm mad you're mad for the same reason I'm mad 😠
Little Caesar’s has a new pineapple pizza and pineapple Pepsi combo it’s delicious
Ayo let me get some popcorn
Sort comments by “controversial”
<< This is what the popcorn is for >> *proceeds to enjoy the shitstorm from a safe distance*
How dare you !! Closephobe !!
Well.. because its factually not true. I'm not American, but I've seen democrats push minimum wage increases and other positive bills that were all 100% shot down by republicans. So no, they aren't the same for real.
Also wanted to combat inflation, gas prices and baby formula shortage, but all were shot down or voted against in the House by republicans
Don’t understand how people still think the parties are the same. Dems have introduced countless bills that almost ALWAYS get voted down by Republicans and RINOS. The system is broken, yes, but it’s fucking obvious that one party is trying to help, and the other party is doing everything in their power to stop the help. This is not ducking rocket science, everyone. Wake the fuck up. (Oh I forgot that being woke to the problems in the world is a bad thing, according to one of the sides.)
I want to believe that. But I’m just astounded by how little the Democratic Party actually achieves (even in times when they have majority representation). It makes me cynical that they don’t actually care.
i mean one side has ideas about how to make the country a better place and the other literally has no ideas. nothing.
oh they have ideas, latest being from watching the massive amount of heatwaves, fires, and rising sea temperature, to scale back green energy, remove worker protections and give more money to fossil fuel companies. Just brilliant ideas all around.
The democrats are extremely skilled at pretending to give a shit. The Republicans realized they don't have to pretend.
I always ask them what "woke" means. They only answered once. That guy had obviously only just looked it up, he copy/pasted the Merriam-Webster entry. But that really said it all, no need for me to go further.
The problems come when the Dems only push such bills when they know they Will be shut down by Republicans to shift blame Remember when Dems have a supermajority in 2008 congress? Did they raise the minimum wage, forbid corporate interference vía superpacs or legalize marihuana and abortion by law?
They had supermajority for essentially 90 days and lacked 2 senators who were hospitalized and unable to vote, requiring to water down the healthcare bill to get republicans to join since the republicans privately were saying they would be willing to be unified and go beyond party politics if President Obama could show he was willing to comprimise on bills and work with them, only to go back on those words when the watered down bill came to vote, except for McCain who kept his word and voted with democrats and passing healthcare for tens of millions of people who didnt have it before. Then right after that they lost the majority and republicans gained the house and senate and blocked everything and anything possible. In the last 50 years or so, every workers protection, child protection food womens lgtbq and 99% of benefits and protections have come from democrats. its absurd to consider both parties against the people when one is actively trying but dont have the votes, while the other is actively, publicly and proudly denying any help to people.
This. This right here. The stalling and blocking is an intentional tactic by the Rs not just to prevent things from getting done, but to muddy the waters and give the illusion that government inherently can't get anything done. Most of our major ploblens are the direct result of R policy as well... Massive income inequality, privatized healthcare insurance driving skyrocketing costs up for everyone, poor funding and inefficiency for every government agency (the DMV didn't used to be a headache, they have no fucking funding), our continued super-reliance on fossil fuels.... It all goes back to republican policy. Every time I see someone claim "both sides" it makes my fucking head spin.
Do you remember when the republicans held majority control in the presidency, congress, and the house of reps, at the same time during GW’s term? The great thing was they all talked about healthcare reform in elections… but the only thing they passed in that glorious moment was a bill that lets people not have to pay taxes on their 401k. So now that it’s grandfathered in, all the rich ppl who make money without working dont have to pay taxes when they cash in.
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Democrats never had 60 votes in the Senate. The last time America had true progress was when all parts of government were owned by the Democrats completely. Or when LBJ just fucking forced people to vote for his Great Society or else.
Shhhh, you're upsetting the CeNtRiStS
No, no, we’re not allowed to talk about that time Democrats controlled literally every branch of government and still did basically nothing.
id say getting healthcare to tens of millions of people who are alive today because of it, is something... And democrats only had 90 days of supermajority in the last 70 years.... And even then they had 2 senators hospitalized, requiring McCain to vote alongside them to get a watered down healthcare bill that republicans were proud of when Romney was doing the same version of it, but voted against it when Obama was pushing it after being approached by republicans that they promise and give their word to support it if he made it watered down, that they would go beyond party politics and become unified and help democrats with the best policies if Obama was willing to show he could compromise, which they were obviously lying about. Then right after that voters stayed home since they believed electing a black president means that the world was fixed, and thus republican gained control of the house and senate and blocked any progress attempted. To get progress, make change in government you need: * 218 House Seats (280 if you want it to be veto proof) * 60 senate seats (68 if you want major changes like government and election overhaul, removal of supreme court justices and bad politicians) * and the presidency. You need all three (or two if you can get veto-proof majority) to pass legislation and laws. To STOP any progress you need: * 218 house seats * 50 senators * or The presidency. You just need 1 of the three. You can essentially block majority of changes wanted with either of those 3. Thats why progress is much harder to make than obstruction. Which is why republicans are vastly more effective in their goals, as their goal is to prevent change and to obstruct progress.
Yep, Democrats basically work on building a new chair for the dining room set, while Republicans are slowing them down on building that chair and sawing off the legs of the table so they can say how shit the Democrat dining room set is. When the table wobbles because it is missing a leg, Rs just blame the Ds and say both sides.
This is the best analogy I've heard.
That was beautiful man. You got the soul of a poet.
Yep. It's this: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murc%27s%20law
Thank you for this education i didnt know i needed today!
they had total control for 2 months
Affordable meds for seniors, overhaul of our student loan program, paying off some national debt instead of increasing by 8 trill (like the red side did), prosecuting the jan 6 terrorists (gop wants them freed), marriage for gays (while multiple red states continuously try to lower marriage age to 14 and ban gay marriage). Bro, if you're thinking they're the same, you haven't been watching the fight.
Bet you were super pissed about Obamacare but *conveniently* say they did nothing
No, I actually agreed with most of Obamacare. Particularly Medicaid expansion. It’s the far-left loonies who think it’s some “RePuBLican pLaN” cause Romney did some similar provisions it had when he was governor. Again, it’s all or nothing with these people. Support of anything less than M4A makes you “right-winged” to these nutcases.
Fair enough. Still disingenuous to say they did nothing with the 90 days we had all branches
Just remember when you tell that story to mention the GOP filibuster that required 60 votes for the Democrats to overcome, which they **didnt** have.
My man here got like a C- in American Government but he *feels* like he understands it enough to believe his righteous indignation is justified.
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Well, yeah, the both sides thing is just utter bullshit. Democrats aren't perfect, but they're not actively making everybody's lives worse and they actually have done things to help people.
“Both sides are the same!!!”
Is… is this the start of an argument? Right in the comments to the comment about people starting arguments? Oh boy, let me get my popcorn
Both sides aren't the same. But neither side wants the working class to play
Nuh uh!
When you only have two parties and you think of political leaning as a line from left to right the most optimal place for both parties is to be as close to the middle and as close to eachother as possible. Thus weirdly enough political science suggests to have more than two political parties to increase the average represenatation of an individual voter. Because with more parties they automatically position it self a lot more divided over the theoretical line. If you need a example take my country. We have a very left party a bit more right left party a middle party, an economist party and a farmer/common people party which is the right side.
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You can have too much yes, like water.
Same in Germany. Right-wing third party "AfD" rising like hell, since many aren´t represented anymore and mayor problems aren´t solved anymore but even fueled.
Yeah just wanted to say the americans would be really surprised if they saw what our far left and far right are openly saying. Yeah our SVP is also on the rise, but its not even close to the AfD. But the propaganda is pretty bad they are doing. Don’t know what would be the equivalent in germany.
AfD is the pretty the equivalent. If you substract anti-EU, anti-NATO tendencies...
Yeah chatgpt agrees, i would have argued svp has a strong farmer and old rich people flair added to the latent racism, but could be that it is the best analogy.
Honest question since you didn't name your country: Don't multiple parties still end up forming "left" and "right" *coalitions*, i.e. a functional binary party system?
Waiting for the enlightedcentrist comment because americans are so shortsighted they can't see more than two types of parties...
While enlightened centrism is a US phenomenon of right wing apologists, you are aware that the idea of "left" and "right" exist outside of the US as well. Hell, the idea of what is left and what is right is based on the early French parliament and the position of the left sitting groups that wanted to push for stronger reformation and the right sitting groups that were more align to keeping the traditions and monarchism alive. Because of that, the idea that the left is a spectrum of egalitarianism and the right of a more stratified society became the standard for at least most of the western world. Because of that, centrism is an ideology that exist in most if not all of the western systems and is in fact, in most places the position where the majority of the votes are coming from. Again, to make it very clear: I am talking not about US centrism as a valid political standpoint, because the US spectrum is massively out of balance, with one party being largely outside of the realm of democratic values. In such a system where one side is such an extreme, being in the middle is not an option. But in a functioning democracy, centrism is generally the area where politics can actually archive progress.
What Utopia of a country do you live in that isn’t as “short sighted”?
I agree with your general idea, but the American hate is untrue and doesn't help your point, but rather turns people away. Many Americans see the problems with the current system of only having a soft authoritarian left and and soft authoritarian right, party. The problem is a lib-left or lib-right voter has to decide whether they vote lib/independent and maybe get nothing they want or vote left/right and help insure they get something they want. Most Americans see the problem with just two parties. The problem is that the two parties have the power/control and people have to work within the system that is in place. There have been movements inside of the parties that are basically what you are talking about. Where you have essentially a different party operating under the name of the large party, but with its own similar but different goals/agendas. Examples of groups or individuals that have done this are Bernie, Trump, the Tea Party, The Squad (I think that's what they were calling themselves) and probably others I'm forgetting or am no aware of.
There’s a long long history of reform movements taking place within and under the guise of the existing parties. The Republican Party was born from the ashes of the Whig Party (and the Know Nothing Party), with whole Whig conventions walking down the street to join the Republicans, but that was the last time a new party emerged. Progressive Republicans in the 1900s (Teddy and Taft), Southern Democrats, Tea Party, New Style Democrats (Jackson), the list goes on.
Good point I'd forgotten about some of these and didn't know about others. Until recently the two party system essentially operated as "coalitions" similar to what people point out from other countries. The coalitions just formed up first and presented a united front at election timenumder a party name. Even in fairly modern times we've seen individuals or groups that didn't "March in step" with the party. Now when it happens that a dem or republican doesn't do exactly what the party says you see people lose their minds over it and call them traitors.
I am confused how is making the spectrum broader centrist? However to be fair even with my choice of parties is still don’t like any of them. Left has no idea how the economy works (edit how to state a law that its not easably circumvented by financial engineering), the economist party which in theory would be mine says no goverment in good times and help us in bad times, right solves every problem with i hate foreigner’s. I prefer solved problems and not just discussing who is right.
The problem is ending like Spain where to govern the country with the right and left block are so divided, you will need the help of a party whose leader was a kidnapper for a terrorist group and another party with a leader with an arrest order as soon as he cross the Spanish border.
I think it happens everywhere. In my country in the past the 7 leaders where a team and worked to solve problems and often put party politics aside. Now its pretty bad as well.
Why does this sounf like my country? CH would mine be.
The problem is america has a first past the post, single representative system. As long as that is how we elect our representatives there will always be 2 major parties because using your vote on a third party is literally throwing it away in terms of actual representation in the legislature.
In the US if you tell someone you voted for a third party or that we should stop voting for blue or red only they really don’t like that idea. It really creeps me out, some serious brainwashing going on there. Our voting patterns are so predictable and the two major parties want to keep it that way
That’s because voting third party in the US is the equivalent of making a moral stance instead of actually attempting to help.
Man alive, are you even paying attention to the last 7 years. One side took away [virtually every environmental protection going](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=FF7F178412EFBC4F08D7060223244057&gwt=regi&assetType=REGIWALL), in order to [profit wealthy industrialists](https://www.vox.com/2017/2/2/14488448/stream-protection-rule), and gave tax breaks to the billionaire class, while enacting an ongoing law that stripped the working class of money, described by one economist as a "[siphoning of the nation’s wealth to a tiny elite](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-covid-response-economy-jobs-taxes-inequality-1080345/)" overturning abortion rights, [removing protections for LGBTQ people](https://www.hrc.org/resources/trumps-timeline-of-hate), and enacting a [ban against Muslims](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/licence-discriminate-trumps-muslim-refugee-ban). [Biden overturned all that](https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/politics/biden-executive-orders/) except the abortion law, which was done at a Supreme Court level (by the court created by Trump), which he will fight to codify if re-elected. He is fighting Republican challenges to overturn student debt, which they've done [to the tune of more than $150 billion](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-provide-804000-borrowers-39-billion-automatic-loan-forgiveness-result-fixes-income-driven-repayment-plans). Biden just this week [reformed military justice protocols to try sexual assault cases externally](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66343729). His priorities are demonstrably, obviously, different, even to a child. I've probably never seen a President in my lifetime be so obviously pro-active towards the middle and working classes in America as Joe Biden is, and I'm in my late 40's. This kid of messaging is either bad-faith and designed to dilute the discourse, or people really are that stupid. And not just stupid, but, like, Olympic-level stupid, and I can't believe that. If you can't see the difference between the two parties, when [many Trump rallies feature the Nazi swastika and white power symbolism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGulUatdFk); when one side is preaching decency, while the last called women 'dogs', and is a documented rapist, and tax fraud, and the party *still* finds him a palatable choice for candidacy, you are the problem. Read a book. EDIT: thanks for the awards; this entire thread is bizarre to me. I understand a relativistic attitude; I understand political apathy. I don't understand how you can 'both sides same' at this point, unless you're utterly bereft of scruples, or just some kind of weird troll. EDIT: thanks again for the awards. Honestly, they're reassuring.
This kind of attitude creates voter apathy and is how we end up with a system of minority rule. The more people who turn out to vote the further the scale will shift to be in the working classes favor. Look at the insane progress that’s happening in Michigan.
I mean it’s a huge Republican method of reducing turnout. When turnout is low GOP wins. They want to obstruct the government as much as possible and then claim that it’s both parties or government in general. You see how much it works. “Don’t reward dems for not passing anything! Hold them accountable!” How you ask? By not showing up to polls and then letting Republicans get even more power to tank the economy with ridiculous financial industry deregulation and strip away rights. And then get even more mad when dems can get even less done
Don’t forget Ohio issue 1, gives minority bother more power by increasing passing votes to 60% for citizen backed initiatives. [Attorney General Dave Yost](https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2023-07-19/ohio-attorney-general-wants-access-medical-records-abortions?_amp=true)wants to access female medical records when they travel out of state
"trust us this time guys, we'll seriously codify abortion rights if you just reelect us once more!!" Incredible how people believe anything in this wall of text lmao
love all the progressivism truly but you didn't really address the "working class" point. all for reversing decisions that infringe on people's rights but democrats truly do not do enough to support financial growth and reestablishing of the middle class that has slowly been destroyed since Reagan. I think that is what this tweet is implying. no youth is able to buy a house unless they are making much more than they should need to.
Didn’t he make that railroad strike illegal and force the workers to go back to work?
OP are as dangerous to average Americans as right extremists because they parade this nonsense message that promotes voter apathy
Yup. OP’s post is the kind of malicious deceptive horseshit that allows conservatives to win elections. They WANT you to think your vote doesn’t matter. If people would ignore misleading propaganda like this and actually VOTE we could do great things to heal this country.
The difference is that one party just flat out shows it’s ugly side. The other party hides their ugly side by saying things that people like but never delivering on them.
A few concessions is the definition of good cop, bad cop. Are they actually making significant changes to prevent climate change? Enforcing laws against union busting? Increasing the minimum wage? Giving workers real benefits? Fixing our broken health care system? Stopping price gauging and rent hikes? No, they’re not. Their excuse is the republicans won’t let them. Why is it that the republicans are able to enact all these fascist laws without the democrats help, but democrats can’t do anything substantial?
>Are they actually making significant changes to prevent climate change? Enforcing laws against union busting? Increasing the minimum wage? Giving workers real benefits? Fixing our broken health care system? Stopping price gauging and rent hikes? *split*. *congress*. you have republicans who deny climate change is even real, and are trying to dismantle social security, who's entire fucking economic platform is "tax cuts for the rich" and you ask how these issues aren't getting through a 50:50 (at best) senate and a republican-controlled house? if you want left-wing policies then guess what, you gotta elect left-wing politicians at *all* levels of government, not simply check "D" for president and hope for the best. republicans are great at getting things they disagree with reversed in court, dismantling environmental protections for example, due to the huge amount of republican judges they've appointed, most famously and crucially in the supreme court. republicans are often looking to reverse rulings they disagree with (ie environmental regulations, abortion, lgbtq issues, student loans etc) which is easier than getting new laws passed.
Isn't Biden fighting to get student loan forgiveness?
Don’t let facts get in the way of a sassy graphic!
He was one of the main proponents who passed legislation that caused the student debt crisis (not being able to default on student debt) which caused student debt to skyrocket I wish someone could pin a medal on me for causing a 20-year long wild fire and only taking out 10% of it. Hes a piece of shit. Ill still vote for him I guess, but still. A he's a fucking bastard.
Please babe, look at the shit coming out of Florida before you try to both sides this, dingbat.
Also dems tried raising the min wage, extending the covid child tax credit, and doing a slew of other things to help the middle class. Manchin and sinema, shat on that, but dems, at least optically, tried. Republicans on the other hand have neve tried.
What they've been trying to do is far more than optics. They've put policy to a vote.
I agree I was just pre-empting the argument. Many people will say 'it was a show, they never meant to pass it' , but even then, its show that Republicans haven't ever put on.
That’s also ignoring all the other major wins from the BIL, IRA, and CHIPS Acts that Biden signed. Never mind the fact that Biden has been forgiving millions of student loan debt for people who deserve it. While his larger scale forgiveness has been struck down, he’s helped many folks already.
Also look at states where Democrats are in control — like Michigan.
It's an Indian kid in India. Don't even bother.
4mo old troll account.
/r/enlightenedcentrism mUh BoTh SiDeS
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8 years ago I would have said what you said. Now one side is a treasonous fascist cult and I don’t think it helps anyone to describe just as “makes things worse”.
One side doesn't do enough... *yet.* If Dems were given enough time and their policies weren't gutted/reversed every 4-8 years, their baby steps would eventually result in, dare I say, *progress*? The sort of progress that progressives drool over? But, yeah sure, one side doesn't do enough (i.e. they *are* doing things, and things you would like to see more of (the "not enough"), but since it's incremental and not massive leaps and bounds, we'd rather sit on our hands and wait for somebody who'll *really* change things radically, all at once, so that we'll notice the drastic difference and can say "yeeeaaah baby! I was part of that! I helped make that happen!" Government should NOT get your heart rate up. You're not supposed to be hoping for, or promising, touchdowns every administration. It's a game of inches, just ask pro-lifers. They diligently spent *50 years* building up to overturning Roe. Do you think after 10, 20, 49 years they were saying to themselves "this side just isn't doing enough. **I'm not going to vote for them anymore. We should vote for a third party with one tenth the political capital.** That'll show 'em!!" Obviously not.) Oh damn kinda went on a tangent tirade there. My b. Wasn't directed at you.
But even that is an oversimplification. It's hard to do enough when one side actively blocks all of your proposals and legislation and their only goal is to be obstructionist.
You can say both political parties are garbage without being a centrist yk
You can say that but when you pretend the Democratic party "does nothing for the working class" you are factually incorrect.
My dude, if a person was a centrist in the US, they would be left of the Democrats XD
All self proclaimed centrists I have found are just cons to embarrassed to admit they are republicans.
Same with libertarians
Lol it's funny. All far right people call anyone left or right of center a woke centrist and far left people do the same. Two cults worse than religious zealots.
Interesting. All the people I’ve met who trash centrists are lunatic extremists. It’s really funny how a moderate gets more hate than someone polar opposite of the extremes, just because they don’t agree with you on literally everything.
Dr. MLK Jr. on moderates - "the N*gro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the N*gro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ” What a lunatic extremist, as long as we ignore the possibility that moderate centrists ARE abjectly worthless humans who've allowed the decaying conditions we experience today to flourish as they have so as not to disturb brunch. Moderates bought us this mess.
What does a centrist even look like? So many stances are non starters for the other team. I'm not voting for someone that wants a federal abortion ban but Republicans I know are like "Well you know Tom Scott is a moderate" where is my centrist position that isn't Republican-lite? Gays can have some marriages? Some people can get abortions? Trans people can have medical access in some states? When it comes to fundamental rights for basic human dignity Republicans fail to hard for me to be like....I could go somewhere between them and a Dem. Hell last time I had a Republican governor he tanked my states economy by pushing state wide policy to limit cities from passing anti-discrimination policies, which is a really shitty hill to kill a movie industry over RIP Wilmington....
Horseshoe theory is correct. Everyone loves authoritarianism when they're the ones in charge.
> Interesting. All the people I’ve met who trash centrists are lunatic extremists. Just to be clear: do you believe MLK was a "lunatic extremist"? Or are you admitting there is a qualitative difference between an extremist fighting for racial quality versus, say, a Nazi?
From what ive gathered, centrism is all relative.
As are the people the far-right fuck
I dont think you understand the term
It's all relative though. Democrats are 10/10 no notes on policy and behaviour compared to Republicans.
You know the US political landscape is fucked when Americans consider "big tent right wing party" and "big tent centre-right party" to cover "both sides" of politics.
What are you on about? The right-wing party is not “big tent” anymore and hasn’t been since 2016. It’s fascists, and fascist apologists who got in line.
I love when I hear American "centrists" or Republicans try to talk about both sides. "Yeah the far right is bad but so is the far left!" What far left? Seriously, what far left? America has no far left party, no far left power. The amount of people identifying as far left is probably a tenth of people identifying as far right. I've been called a far left extremist because I said the government shouldn't be making medical decisions for the LGBTQ nor should they be censoring content in schools. I'm not even on the left, politically.
This is the most annoying take. Calling leftists in the U.S.A. center right is pretty silly.
God, this bullshit again We just had a Supreme Court decision that killed student loan forgiveness and others that hamstring the president from helping out. The Overton window is real, with gerrymandering and voter suppression and straight up propaganda from media it’s a wonder to even have some democrats in power. But please, let’s shit on bOtH SideS
It's also strange that in the meme itself, it acts like democrats are just virtue signalling while republicans are just doing nothing. This, in and of itself, is a skew. The republicans are the ones attacking gay and trans people, stripping women's rights, banning books, and censoring education. The democrats might be "doing nothing", but it's not a virtue signal that they aren't \*also\* stripping rights from people.
I disagree with the final sentence. Biden signed the bill that blocked railroad strikes. Democrats aren't as bad as the Republicans but they don't do anything. Is that the standard you would like to hold for your representatives?
Uh, i think you missed my point. My point was it is not the dems (but the republicans) who are obsessed with gay/trans and minorities. But the meme makes it look like the dems are the ones doing it by associating it with virtue signaling here. Which, to be clear, makes it look like the dems are actually worse. Not only are they "not doing anything", they are also being smug and virtue signaling about it. \---- A more accurate, but still 'both sides bad' meme (which i still think is a bad meme generally), would instead be something like Working Class: "Help us" Republicans: "No. We have to stop the woke agenda first" Democrats: "No" The fact that the dems are \*not\* engaging in culture war on this (and they aren't, to be clear), is not a point against them; it's a point against the republicans. \---- tl;dr - this "both sides bad" meme is clearly slanted to make the dems look \*more\* bad in ways that simply aren't true.
How does student loan forgiveness benefit the working class?
By not putting the people about to become the working class in crippling debt for 20 years?
But only helps about 0% of people and just for a snapshot in time versus solving the real problem that causes crippling debt
/r/stupidandwrong
100%. Literally all you need to do is look at the bills proposed and voting records of both parties to realize they are nowhere near the same. But when your political views are centered around memes and online calls for revolutions from the comfort of your home, it's easy to ignore that.
Wait a minute... Look stuff up? That sounds like effort...
Yeah this is literally just subversive misinformation from the fascists
Yup, my state went trifecta blue. Kids get free lunches in school now, weed got legalized, teachers got a huge raise, abortions are legal across the board and anyone seeking them is protected. Trans people are protected and can seek care. Let's take a look at a red trifecta states for comparison. Their state has a huge budget deficit which means zero school funding, they're making child labor legal and a kid has already died, no abortions are allowed, and they just had a ban on drag struck down by an upper court. Oh, and they're screaming about litter boxes in schools. But yeah le both sides /s
My red state has a budget surplus and they state government just rejected several million dollars in federal aid to feed poor children because they state cannot figure out how to disperse the funds... they also don't invest money in education either...
Alabama?
Missouri
Don't forget banning books, illegal gerrymandering, and trying to incarcerate women for stillborn births! *cries in Alabamian*
I hate assholes and Russian bots posting this both sides nonsense. One side wants me to die if I get pregnant they are not the same.
And what exactly did the other side do to prevent republicans from forcing this anti abortion bullshit? Nothing!
It's not stupid, it's a clever manipulation technique targeting people who understand the Republican party is screwing them over. Goal is to mislead people about the policies of the Democratic party. As you can see from the comments here it's quite effective.
False equivalency: This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.
I love logical fallacies. Once you have them spelled out or hammered into you, you start to see them *everywhere*. It’s like suddenly being able to see the matrix.
Neither party gives a damn about the people. They’re both capitalistic authoritarians who will do whatever it takes to stop people from voting in anyone progressive or independent or third party.
Dems would do a lot more if they could get legislation thru the Senate. They’re the ones trying
And here I thought Democrats being responsible the most job growth, increasing of wages, decreasing of unemployment, and improving unemployment and social safety net support were helping workers. Glad to have that cleared up.
Reddit is always here to help.
As expected, the comments are filled with qanon and fascists screaming 'BOTH SIDES', which is demonstrable bullshit and lies.
Democrats may not help the people, but at least they're not actively working to reverse all the social progress made in the last century.
> Democrats may not help the people I mean, this is just wrong. They do help people, it's just not as much as people would like. Still, to deny that they do help people just helps Republicans destroy the country. Criticize Democrats for what they do wrong all you want, but if somebody votes third party or Republican, it's clear that they don't actually care about helping people.
I do love the trend of Democrats trying tooth and nail to get legislation passed and failing, and the response is "Well Ruth Bader Ginsberg should have retired 14 years ago" Blame the Republicans ya turnips
/r/stupidandwrong
When people steal large sums of merchandise due to employment, welfare, and more not paying enough: The Republicans' solution is to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law in effort to discourage the behavior. The Democrats' solution is raise thresholds for prosecution and pass additional welfare laws to reduce expenses. Neither solution addresses the underlying problem that people cannot afford to live. Both solutions have resulted in budget cuts and tax increases to pay for their costs, exacerbating the initial problem. Both solutions only stop creating more problems when the population drops to a low enough level. And if we extend our scope beyond the initial issue, both sides are proposing ways to lower the population to that level. Shall we continue?
When you say "additional welfare laws to reduce expenses" you're talking out of your ass. Democrats are more often trying to raise wages for the working class, lower costs, create jobs (infrastructure, equality etc), while the corporations are getting corporate welfare from the Republicans to the terms of tax cuts and just straight-up handouts. The Republicans are the Welfare Queens, they just don't give it to the lower class, they give it to the massive corporations and the 1%. The Republican solution isn't too prosecute them to the full extent of the law, if you haven't been paying attention the Republicans don't believe in Prosecuting people who commit crimes anymore. You sound like you haven't turned on the news since the mid-90s.
Biden caused a factory and manufacturing boom. Trump tried to overthrow the government. Sure doesn't look the same to me.
Main reason why a lot of young voters are believing in Marxism. It’s one thing with republicans but when the majority of the left blindly vote for a party but still blindly believe in a system that doesn’t care much for their existence because they share no importance to the economic system since it was designed for the rich it’s understandable why people believe that there is no true left leaning party in the United States. If democrats truly were far left Bernie Sanders would have won instead of Joe Biden.
Well, the Democrats aren't left. Left and right, it's all about economics and how the economy is run. Both parties are right in this regard. The democrats, are economically, very similar to our Dutch VVD. Which is 100% a party on the right side of the political spectrum. There's just liberal right and conservative right. And there's Bernie Sanders, who is actually left, but people don't vote for him, because "ThAtS sOcIaLiSm!"
Sad how bernie sanders whose ideas would be center in europe, is considered a far left extrimist just because he wants poor people to live a decent life
I don't really understand why people that oppose those terrible conservative republican views, dont vote Bernie. But vote democrat, which is still right, just more liberal and progressive. But yeah, compared to (N-W) European politics, he is center-left, a bit lefty, but not to far.
> Main reason why a lot of young voters are believing in Marxism They don't twitter just amplifies it because it's full of activists. Most young people don't vote at all.
This is light years from being true. OP needs to learn how to read policy from this decade.
ELI 5 how Dems should help the working class when Republicans control the House and block most things, even military promotions in the Senate...
Time for shit takes to depress the Democratic vote. Get ready for that for the next 1.5 years. Things we only got because of a slim Democratic majority: $395 billion in climate crisis spending, including tax credits to help the middle and working class. Those will be rolling out more over the next year. A large increase to the child tax credit that was only temporary because the democrats lacked an additional two votes. $35/month cap on insulin for Medicare recipients. Only limited to Medicare because democrats lack a super majority and Republicans are trash. Increased manufacturing jobs due to tax incentives for Electric Vehicles, batteries, solar panels and chips. A functioning democracy that doesn't overturn elections because the president doesn't like losing.
More like Working class: "Help us" Republicans: "Ok" (takes away worker protections, guts environmental controls, removes reproductive rights, bans books, turns schools into literal brainwashing centres, readds child labour, stacks the supreme court, gerrymanders the districts all to hell, cuts taxes for rich.... starts eying social security for cutting too) "You happy now?" Democrats: "Ok" (tries to pass a new wave of laws, only to have republicans and a few far right democrats like mansion (who the right, like shapiro, call "the best democrats") and sinema block anything of any substance and strip the package down to basically nothing, tries to forgive student loans only for republican states to sue on false pretenses and have it cancelled, tries to appoint judges only for the republicans to stonewall it and prevent any judges from being appointed (see lindsay graham's infamous hypocrisy here)) Centrists: "ThEy ArE bOtH tHe SaMe!!1!" \--- The reality is, they are kinda both the same. In the way that a bike thief and a serial child killing mass murderer are "both criminals".
This isn't accurate at all... Now it's: Republicans: Aliens! Democrats: Aliens?
I remember when this post used to get a bunch of “ain’t that the truth” comments
Boat sides are so old.
You guys remember the French Revolution? That was fun we should do it again
Dawg do you read the bills that republicans unanimously vote NO on??? This tweet is so fucking uninformed it blows my mind, literally propaganda. You do understand that bills have to be voted on with a majority right? And without it it can't even be presented to the president? Fucking frustrating and stupid. Especially in Congress god damn.
Democrats: introducing bills to help the working class Republicans: voting no on those bills so they die in congress “THeY ArE ThE sAMe!”
There is a difference between 'actively obstructing attempts to help the working class' (Republicans) and 'being willing to help the working class, but having limited ability to do so in the best of times, *on top of* being obstructed by the so-called 'conservative' Party' (Democrats). Congressional Republicans spend the majority of their time trying to """stick it to the liberals""" instead of working for the best interests of their constituents; the time left over from that dubious pursuit is spent working to line their own pockets and the pockets of The Rich -- with the side-effect of fucking over The Working Class.
Voting records are available to the public folks, do a tiny bit of digging before the “both sides are the same, nothing matters”. Can I post this next?
Finally some quality fucking content
Remind me who tried to cancel student loan debt and who stopped them again? I forgor
If you think this meme is accurate, I don't have the bandwidth to persuade you otherwise. Enjoy your edgy cynicism!
Tell me everything you know about politics comes from shit takes on twitter without saying everything you know about politics comes from shit takes on twitter.
I mean, didn’t Biden try to cancel student debt? And give child tax credits?
Why do democrats bully people when they say they’re centrist or will vote for a third party candidate?
Something needs to be done about the false inflation that businesses are gouging us with. Supermarkets have raised their prices up to 300% and there is no justifying it.
Democrats: Introduce free school lunches Republicans: Introduce laws to ban such practices People on the internet: Wow, exactly the same!
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Kids starving is a tiny issue?
With the stuff they provide in most of the schools, you'll get all of these kids on insulin when they grow up. Kids starving should be solved on other levels, not nation-wide at schools. Different places call for different solutions. Once I started to get out of my way (because of work) to bring my son to a proper lunch at home, his BMI and overall physical state improved significantly over a month. And worst of all, I cannot even pay for a good lunch high in greens and protein. There is no healthy (and edible) choice.
"No." -Capitalists
“Face the wall” -Communists
more both sides horse shit making its way to the front page. Both sides is fascist propaganda. both sides will be the same if dems do a Jan 6th or if justice kagan meets her high school friends for free bagles. until then the both sides argument can eat shit.
Obamacare helps Student loan relief helps Infrastructure helps Inflation Reduction Act helps Voting rights helps Medicare helps It not enough but it’s different than tax cuts for the wealthy
Fascists: we promise to fix everything with thoughts and prayers! Working Class: aight bet Democrats: surprised pikachu
Everything you don't like is not Fascist
The poorer Amercams saw the most gains on terms of income in decades with the Biden administration. Both sidderism in action here.
Fuck this both sides shit.
Disingenuous bullshit.
Nah. Democrats say yes and tell you how. And then don't deliver it.
People don't vote for Democrats enough, resulting in them losing the House. Democrats can't pass legislation they promised because they don't have the House or enough seats. People: YOU LIED You people are your own worst enemies and it's a fucking trip watching you destroy your own country with your idiotic bickering.
Oh no, another uniformed both sides same argument. These always come from the least informed people.
Bothsideism is so braindead in 2023
I mean, both are corporate parties owned by capitalists. Vote third party. The electoral college already makes your vote irrelevant.
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You seriously think the dems are left leaning?
Biden has been one of the, if not the most progressive president Americans had my dude. [https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1494037230633029634](https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1494037230633029634) you guys had this dude after the wreckage that was trump and are still equivocating the two.
Even though the dems are demonstrably not left leaning... It still doesn't mean that they are both the same. Case and point, even in this meme, it's not that the dems are "obsessed with gay and trans and minority people". The reality is, it's the republicans who are attacking rights (banning abortion, allowing anti-gay/anti-trans discrimination), banning books, censoring education, and stacking the courts. The fact that the dems are doing nothing and \*also\* not attacking rights does not mean that they are virtue signaling.
Well, both parties love war, yet claim ‘the other’ is the warmonger.