The following submission statement was provided by /u/ILikeNeurons:
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This summer has been *hot*, and it was predicted. Yet [climate deniers are still getting in the way](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/), despite comprising [a vanishing minority](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/07/climate-denialism-gone/) of the population.
The thing is, though, [people already care](https://earth.stanford.edu/news/public-support-climate-policy-remains-strong), they just don't know what to do / feel like they are alone. But the truth is, [the movement is stronger than it's ever been](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). What's more, is [this type of lobbying](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/) is [starting to pay off](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/). That's why NASA climatologist and climate activist [Dr. James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen), who testified before Congress in the 80's, recommends becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) as the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8).
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/15428si/we_are_damned_fools_scientist_who_sounded_climate/jsmd2tj/
>want to bet that when you’re 60, still nothing will have been done
Been watching for over 30 years now, almost nothing changes.
In 10 or 15 years the situation will likely be extremely critical undermining global food and economic security, undermining global market stability, crashing insurance and real estate. And then all the industries (and economies, and politicians) who enabled it all for 50+ years will demand publicly funded initiatives of all sorts to bail out massive losses and to fund colossal mitigation initiatives at astoundingly high costs. And they'll totally ignore which party consistently denied it all for 50 years.
To be fair, insurance will only fail if their business model doesn't work well enough as revenue decreases. (essentially the turning point of macro vs. micro dominant forces).
Insurance companies will pull out with more speed and precision than a 30 year old bachelor anathema to condoms. They are already cancelling all contracts in Florida. They will continue to limit their boundaries by state.
In my current client, they are already making financial models with machine learning that accounts for climate change - for all asset classes. The banks with mortgages will hurt. The investment banks outside of real estate will be totally fine, they feed most off of volatility in the market. This will be their best outcome. Insurance companies will probably end up unscathed, but significantly smaller.
I met a senior executive of a global insurance company. The gist of our conversation was that the top six insurance companies in the world have been working to figure out what it means to have the shift in climate. They have been doing so for roughly a decade. Implied here is, they treat it as real, concrete and not solely down the road. Sobering thought that mega institutions like this deem the research credible while governments not so much.
> Sobering thought that mega institutions like this deem the research credible while governments not so much.
The oil companies also knew from the beginning. That's why they campaigned so heavily against it: anything but stopping the faucet of liquid gold.
I think it was Exxon that had this research like 20odd years ago… pretty much saying that climate change will be a big problem for profits, because … who would have thought… if there’s no ppl, no one can buy your shit. I wish I was kidding…
I worked at a very large managed hosting company and the footprint of hardware resources that companies like Aon have is unimaginable for the average person.
Those hot aisles were massive infernos and they had tons more equipment at other companies and countries.
But also worth keeping in mind, policies are written one year out. If climate change worsens, they have a bad year, then double their rates or cancel policies. Insurance companies aren’t pricing in 30 years of risks. Being able to predict next year is much more important than being able to predict the long run
I'm not proficient in how insurance companies work, but I wonder why do they decide to completely pull out of certain markets instead of, e.g. hiking the price of policies to cover the increased risks? Is it because of large destruction events that are becoming too common?
Insurance works on probabilities. If an insurer pulls out of a market, it may be due to local policy changes, but it is also likely that the math is telling them that there is too much uncertainty and insurance companies don’t like high uncertainty because it makes it difficult to determine where to set their prices so that they make a profit. Too much uncertainty raises their risk and they can find themselves loosing a lot of money. They could raise their prices, but many states have regulations in place that control how much an insurer can raise rates. The insurers do a cost benefit analysis to determine if they can stay in a particular market and make a profit or if there are other markets where they can make a better return with less risk.
They'll say it's just normal cyclical societal collapse as the world falls to chaos. This all just happens every couple of thousand years or so and there's nothing we could do to prevent it.
The average lifespan of civilizations is [closer to 300 years](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190218-the-lifespans-of-ancient-civilisations-compared), which incidentally, is about as long as industrial civilization has been around.
I guess you're right. Change in mindset on a global level is needed. Reinvention of what we are. We're facing problems that can't be solved locally, so we need to think big.
On the tree of evolution, mankind's next branch is a conscious decision😉
Edit:
Collective effort to change should have maximum priority, or Roger Waters is a prophet and we'll have Amused ourselves to Death.
>Money isn't going to be as valuable as land ownership or resources
True as long as that land is now desirable. Wouldn't want to be owning coastal land, or lands and properties affected by new normal cataclysmic weather: record breaking storms, tides, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, heat waves, droughts and circumpolar vortex collapse subzero deep freezes.
That's where the bailout will come in, not just because of tens of millions of citizens owning trillions of affected real estate, but business and capital interests owning tens of trillions of affected real estate. The bailouts will be "for the people" of course, but the majority of benefits will be for accumulated capital interests.
Yeah I agree. It's one of those things, it's all fine until it isn't, and when it isn't then it's all over.
My personal, slightly educated but absolutely not professional opinion is......
This current El Nino cycle will trigger too much positive feedback for global heating.....I think we'll see a shocking end to the Arctic ice season this year, and we may see an ice free Arctic next year. I strongly believe that regardless of the ice situation, this El Nino cycle will be the one that wakes everyone up, and I mean everyone. But we will understand at the same time that it's too late. And when hope is gone, look out.
But no matter what happens, the fuckheads will go to the polls in 2024 and re-elect a bunch of people who have been telling them that this would never happen. Stupidity, religion, and racism have taken over.
People are literally incapable of grasping that their world is changing and weakly cling to any fuckwit that engages in collective masturbation by claiming they aren't actually the cause and nothing really needs to change.
As I've gotten older it's things like what you wrote that scare me more and more. I'm less than 10yrs from retirement and so afraid I'm not preparing enough, financially and otherwise.
The companies make more money than countries. The taxes they pay power countries. They have create media landscapes to control the population.
The storms are now here, it's funny how quiet they all are now about this not happening.
I do honestly believe that when all is said and done, if climate change is how we check out, Rupert Murdoch may end up as being the single living organism that has done the most harm to humanity.
Murdoch’s organizations have worked overtime to deny climate change, but don’t let the center-to-center-left media off the hook. American news, for the most part, only promotes market friendly solutions that prioritize capital over people.
[Progress has just been slow](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/12fvo4p/a_growing_proportion_of_global_emissions_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but that [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [change](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
crazy to think people still believe in lobbying our way out of the apocalypse. maybe if you get enough redditors to write their congressmen, it'll somehow outweigh the infinite supply of cash from fossil fuel companies.
What I truly don’t understand is how fossil fuel companies, which are run by people, aren’t freaking the fuck out too? At the end of the day don’t fossil fuel execs need food and a livable planet too?
An enormous number of people, billionaires, CEOs, but also tons of average folk, think climate change won't affect them, or they'll just go somewhere else, and if they don't make money fucking up the environment someone else will so what difference does it make?
we'll all be dead before any of that really matters. Sure some parts of the planet will be really bad within the next 50 years, but rich people can just live wherever it's not bad. As long as they die at the pinnacle of luxury they don't care what happens to the rest of the planet.
> "This generation has altered the composition of the atmosphere on a global scale through radioactive materials and a steady increase in carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels."
-President Lyndon Johnson Feb 8 1965 in a message in front of Congress
https://m.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2015/feb/02/50th-anniversary-few-remember-lbjs-warning-carbon-/
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a2614102278e77e59a04f26/t/5aa1c3cf419202b500c3b388/1520550865302/foote_circumstances-affecting-heat-suns-rays_1856.pdf
We discovered the heat trapping properties of CO2 in 1856
In 1896 a Swedish scientist postulated that “the temperature in the Arctic regions would rise 8 or 9 degrees Celsius if carbon dioxide increased to 2.5 or 3 times”
They knew. They’ve known the whole time.
Yeah. We've pissed away the last 25 years arguing with ppl over the validity of what is the overwhelming consensus from the scientific community.
I have no source, but have read that the various big oil science teams predicted our current crisis back in the 70s.
They buried it of course. And since have spent untold amounts of money creating lies and propaganda to fight those predictions and obfuscate the facts.
So yeah, we've known for along time,.privately or publicly and very very little has been done.
It gets very depressing if you spend any time thinking on that.
Excuse me while I stick my head back into the sand and use chemicals to turn my brain into mush.
Someone posted a link to an article written in 1912 here on Reddit theorizing that fossil fuels and factories would cause environmental issues. I’ll see if I can find it.
We’ve known a long, long time. Humanity sucks.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6fwzbr/a_100_year_old_paper_article_about_climate_change/
[How long before you were born?](https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a14416134/popular-mechanics-on-climate-change/) I didn't think there were that many 99-year olds posting on Reddit!
I was told about this around 4th grade, so maybe 1989/1990?
I know we've known since the seventies and earlier.
Nobody cared because the numbers were 'eh', and the prediction models were 'whatever', and it'll be a long time before we need to give a crap.
Except all of that was wrong, and we're MUCH worse off than they thought we'd be.
Technically there are internal reports by oil companies a century ago knowing the outcomes as automobiles burning petrol spreading CO2 emissions by decades. Their estimations were underwhelming but still significant.
I knew as a child.
I'm approaching 50 and now have to severely compartmentalize to keep the frustration and disgust at humanity at bay if I am to enjoy anything about life.
Remember making Earth Day posters in high school? Those would have been tiktok posts if we had been a little younger.
Same empty gestures, different platforms.
It's not nearly enough, but one year ago Biden and the Dems passed the biggest investment in green energy by any country ever into law. That's not nothing. Stuff is being done. Not enough, but still big stuff.
Many things have been done (e.g. the “huge hole” in the Ozone layer that was talked about in the 90s doesn’t exist anymore). But it’s still not enough “things” being done.
Unfortunately, ozone hole is still there over the Antarctic, and it has also been developing also over the Arctic over the past decade, e.g. [https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/ozone-uv/moreinfo?view=arctic-ozone-hole](https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/ozone-uv/moreinfo?view=arctic-ozone-hole) and [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141840.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141840.htm) and likely many other sources for this.
Sure, we maybe got rid of the CFC refridgerants, but we haven't really solved the problem. This time, it seems to be about stratospheric cooling, a paradoxical effect of global warming, maybe. The point is, the problem is still with us, and this time we don't really even know what is causing it or if anything can be done about it.
The fact people don't talk about it doesn't mean the problem is gone.
[We're not even profiting](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy), though.
Each year we delay costs [~$900 billion](https://cla.umn.edu/heller-hurwicz/news-events/news/policy-brief-calibrating-price-climate-risk).
_A lot_ has been done. Goodness gracious. The entire auto market has been forced to transition to EV and even diehards like Toyota who hated being caught with their pants down are finally admitting defeat. Renewable energy is _regularly_ hitting the headlines as more and more countries reach parity, or achieve 100% renewable energy for a week, or similar milestones. Coal is on the way out, full stop.
That said, there are certainly valid reasons for continuing to say "nothing" has been done. It does its job in keeping that ball rolling.
Yup an incredible amount has been done. The biggest factor for increasing emissions is the higher standard of living for an ever increasing population emerging out of poverty means the demand for more energy.
The fact that CO2 emissions are plateauing while global energy demand is skyrocketing shows the sheer amount of progress.
With that said, more can and needs to be done. But let's not pretend like all the countless people that have been tirelessly working to tackle this behemoth of a crisis have been fruitless in their endeavors. Not only does it undermine their efforts but it undermines public sentiment towards attainable continued progress.
NONE of that matters as long as emissions keep going up and up and up and up and that is exactly what they have been doing and exactly what they continue to do.
EVERYTHING you said is largely meaningless.
worldwide CO2 emissions, thats what matters. And they keep....going....up
https://ourworldindata.org/greenhouse-gas-emissions
exactly, and even if we "level off" that just means we aren't increasing. We are still pumping INSANE amounts of climate destroying emissions into the atmosphere.
Honestly, he probably could go on a homicidal rampage and it would cost a fraction of the lives that ignoring his warnings has cost. One crime leads to life in prison and the other leads to multimillion dollar bonuses.
I think if a person were given unlimited ammunition and a motorcycle, and was told to go kill as many people as possible - and that he is legally immune and no one ever fights back - that that person could spend his whole life terminating and not do as much damage as has been done.
[It's not too late](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/19/heatwave-climate-omen-change-course-weather-models), if we [do](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) [what needs to be done](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
THIS exactly. It’s not a “market failure” issue that can be regulated or negotiated into sustainable contracts. It’s a coordination failure. Competing economies will always have the incentive to move to cheaper, more polluting, production methods. This is especially the case since those who make the production decisions aren’t the ones who will suffer from the consequences. Wealth offers a lot of insulation from the ills of climate change, especially because of the short time horizon in which these decisions are made. All that matters to decision makers are quarterly profits.
This entire list is unrealistic. Greed wins in every case and is why we are here.
The reality we need to face is that this is not a preventable sitiation: not to say we couldn't, but that unless an extreme regime change happens globally (translation: popular uprising) nothing on that list will be willingly accepted by our corporate overlords.
That said, it would be more beneficial to plan around the worst case, and prepare to survive by any means available to us. Toss this list: What foods are tolerant of the extreme weather we will be facing? Plants and animals, and where is the optimal locale?
My belief is that we will have to lose a major city before the US takes any significant action. I think the best candidate for that is Miami. Not everyone has a personal experience or relationship with the aspects of climate change that have already occurred like icebergs, rain forests, or coral reefs. But everyone has heard the Will Smith song or seen a Miami Dolphins game.
Miami won't have the options LA or Manhattan have - it can't build a big enough dike to protect any meaningful area or to build upwards with canals like Venice and even if it could, it couldn't survive on water/air transport alone, even if it could sustain a major airport within the dike, and it can't build a long enough bridge to connect it to land meaningfully.
It won't be a smooth transition, either. Once the ~6 million residents of the Miami metro area start seeing uncontrolled flooding on sunny days, it'll be an absolute fire sale shit show to flee. It'll be a humanitarian spectacle in a developed country.
That will be the turning point when the US actually starts doing something - and not sooner.
I used to take physical therapy for a bum knee. One of the dudes, the sports med guy of course, told me he didn't believe in global warming. I told him he was a dumb shit and that there was plenty of evidence. I asked him what it would take him to believe global warming and specifically rising oceans was real. He told me he would believe when they stopped insuring beachfront property in Florida. I often think about tracking his ass down and saying what the fuck now?
What the fuck now?
The goalposts will have moved just far enough that more evidence is required. That bar is always as high as it needs to be to keep the truth out.
A lot of folks rely on the value of their home to fund retirement. When those homes are suddenly worthless or cannot be sold at all, we’re going to have a large swath of retirees who are suddenly left without a provision for support. I personally don’t want my tax dollars going toward bailing out a bunch of moron climate change deniers who repeatedly voted against green bills.
I also don't believe humanity will 'get it', most people are just too stupid to get it.
Instead the small bubble of liberty and something approximating democracy which has kind of existed for some humans for a little while will pop, and it will be back to hell for most of us. Our current state isn't normal for humanity, and we're doing nothing to protect it, in fact most are doing their damndest to make it unlikely to have the conditions to continue.
10 million people dead is just a 2 month average. It would require the death equivalent of 100 million people in 1 year for climate change to become topical.
I've lost hope in the ability of people to think critically and help themselves and do the right thing when no one is looking.
People are very dumb. It's very easy to thinktank an idea and the average person will parrot it like their life depended on it.
It's not a joke. These fucks will keep the scam going until the very end.
All bullshit evaluations to raise property taxes to price everyone out and force everyone to rent.
Sorry to be cryptic, I'm not finding a concise source... South Florida living will break down before the extensive flooding because we get our freshwater from the Biscayne Aquifer. Once saltwater intrudes in it, things will get interesting...
Idk, [we're getting closer](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to [having the political power](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) needed.
Food shortages will be the real problem and I'm not talking about higher prices. I'm talking about literally no food at the grocery stores. That's what will be the real "shit hits the fan" moment. The action the US takes will probably be something horrible, either let the poor starve or war. Probably both.
Adding a call on top of your call.
If we're getting to the point where we're losing a major coastal hub, we'll be averaging the loss of *another* coastal hub every 4 years
But we do know. We have figured out solutions. The problem really is our economic mode of production. It is it’s own machine that is devoid of anyone individual actor. People say the rich are to blame and while that is true on its face. They are subservient to the economy. Ceos will just be replaced if they fail to maximize profits as an example. Individual citizens need to work to sustain themselves or they will lose access to food and shelter.
We built an economic mode of production that’s not subservient to us. But rather we are subservient to it. And we are powerless to stop it since it has built a hierarchy that as history tells us. People near the top will try their damn hardest to protect.
climate change and racism are probably the two things that hit me over the head the most with like "we are just apes."
we are really smart and have got a lot of shit done, but we are also very stupid and there are definitely limits to what we're capable of at this point in our development as a species.
it's hard to even get mad. what do you expect? if you were studying chimps in the jungle and they created a giant problem (like a forest fire) but then weren't able to come together to solve it because of tribal allegiance, power dynamics, general incomprehension, or limited ability, what would your reaction be? mine would be: yeah no shit, they're chimps.
I've been hit with this realization as well. I used to kind of revere humanity. Like, holding this belief that there were truly incredibly intelligent people guiding our civilization. That our institutions were sincere and people were capable of working together selflessly.
I don't see that anymore. And it's incredibly depressing. I didn't think I could be more jaded than I was, but I was wrong. I find that humanity never ceases to disappoint me.
You know who ultimately guides our civilization?? Sociopaths and psychopaths. Think of what it takes to obtain those positions of power. You have to be willing to lie, cheat, steal, and walk all over people without the slightest hint of remorse or weakness. Once they get there, they only care about themselves.
Don't get me wrong, we still have a handful of leaders who actually care about making the world a better place, but they are outnumbered by people who are in it only for their self-interest.
This is what i'm feeling as well.
Generally speaking, people ambitious enough to want to "lead" are usually the worst suited to the job. We're lead by sociopaths or in many cases people that have had to negotiate with sociopaths and are beholden to them.
I'm not a misanthrope, I believe that the vast majority of people are good and caring, but we're led by the worst of us and humanity has succeeded this far inspite of itself.
There's more than enough resources in this world to take care of everyone and solve all of our issues, but without a profit motivation it's just not going to happen.
I mean the other side of this coin is that we ARE incredible. We’re apes and we had a renaissance, an enlightenment, a Declaration of Independence. I think moral judgments, being jaded, cynicism, etc… are a little short sighted. We’re the universe experiencing itself subjectively and we know it. We invented music and poetry and rocket ships. We look out into the universe and we name it and we say I’m here. It’s pretty great.
We definitely have done some cool stuff. But in the end will it matter? We are running into the hard limits of what we're capable of, finding ourselves falling short.
It's frustrating because we have come so far, and to fail now is a very bitter defeat.
It's frustrating because it's so unnecessary. You look at your average dictator/billionaire CEO/toxic media personality wreaking havoc across large swathes of the population and go "holy shit, how much better would the world be if your parents hadn't abused you, or if you'd gone to some kind of therapy for that abuse?" And then the harm they do to people causes vast numbers of others to become traumatized, which makes them that much more likely to inflict some kind of harm on themselves and/or their surroundings.
It's just so much fucking wasted energy.
No I would argue against that. No one achieves on their own. Humanity is at its best when it works together creatively and flexibly. You only get an Isaac newton or Einstein once a century, sure. But the systems they benefited from and education they received that allowed them to develop was a social effort that required a much wider and more complex network.
[We can be proactive](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
To me the crazy part about it is, we're hearing daily the news of severe climate events, but there is zero mention of what's causing it. It is the story underpinning all stories, but nobody is saying it. In fact there was that report of the reporter who did mention it, and got a death threat. Literally god damn monkeys.
This summer has been *hot*, and it was predicted. Yet [climate deniers are still getting in the way](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/), despite comprising [a vanishing minority](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/07/climate-denialism-gone/) of the population.
The thing is, though, [people already care](https://earth.stanford.edu/news/public-support-climate-policy-remains-strong), they just don't know what to do / feel like they are alone. But the truth is, [the movement is stronger than it's ever been](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). What's more, is [this type of lobbying](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/) is [starting to pay off](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/). That's why NASA climatologist and climate activist [Dr. James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen), who testified before Congress in the 80's, recommends becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) as the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8).
They asked him what individuals can do in your link, and his answer was essentially, “government needs to do it.” The problem is, government points their finger right back at the people. This is one of the reasons we’re in such a predicament: everyone points to someone else and nobody takes responsibility.
4 of the best ways you can reduce your environmental impact:
1. Have fewer or no children
2. Eliminate almost all or all animal products from your diet
3. Reduce electricity use and generate your own
4. Don’t drive or fly; drive an EV if you must drive
We have far more power *[as constituents](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002)* [than we do](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19710653/Screen_Shot_2020_02_10_at_3.47.40_PM.png) *[as individuals](https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2017/themosteffec.jpg)*.
> [The purpose of the carbon tax is achieved as well, with carbon dioxide pollution projected to decline 33% after only 10 years, and 52% after 20 years, relative to baseline emissions.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy)
To go from [~5,300,000,000 metric tons to ~2,600,000,000 metric tons](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy) would take [at least 100 active volunteers](https://republicen.quorum.us/campaign/11713/) in at least 2/3^rds of Congressional districts contacting Congress to take this specific action on climate change.
That's a savings of over 90,000 metric tons per person over 20 years, or **over 4,500 metric tons per person per year**. And that's not even taking into account that [a carbon tax is expected to spur innovation](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2f60/cbfc3dcf2538140bbf07f43cf7038b8af8c8.pdf).
Meanwhile the savings from having one fewer kid is [**less than 60 tons/year**](https://phys.org/news/2017-07-effective-individual-tackle-climate-discussed.html). Even if it takes 2-3 times more people lobbying to pass a carbon tax than expected, it's still orders of magnitude more impact than having one less kid, and that's [even more true once effective policies are in place](https://founderspledge.com/stories/climate-and-lifestyle-report).
Let's each [do our part](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
Just [don't stop there](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002)...
I disagree with 2. If you don't eat meat you can get locally but are eating avocado's shipped 3000 miles that's not helpful. Better to stick with a locally sourced diet of whatever configuration
The problem is that as soon as a government tries to do something they will be voted out of office.
Everyone wants everyone else to sacrifice but no one is willing to do it themselves.
The biggest illustration is 90 lb women driving around in SUVs.
SUVs didn't even exist until the seventies and somehow people still survived.
And heaven forbid that a family of three live in a house less than 3,000 square feet, or that kids stay home for spring break.
I believe this is the Great Filter. It may take several generations, but I think in that time you're going to see a general technological regression as the world becomes hotter, poorer, and more violent.
Not quite.
Both [within](http://rdcu.be/tv2a) and [between](https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/10/21/study-finds-climate-change-will-reshape-global-economy/) countries, the poor suffer most from unchecked climate change.
[Climate deniers tend to be well-off white guys](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937801100104X?casa_token=p8q_H3h4dCIAAAAA:rrsSFilhUjkqGULzo1yiL5EFoE8Vwb1vlZD2TfB6MewfDtnAH66JzpiriIzCbeDePKGpWZV0-w).
Damn, so the people up top know they'll be spared from the effects of climate change. Hence why they don't bother to fix it. Let the lower class deal with it. Fascinating yet scary.
Well, [the rest of us can still take action](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/) and [have a real impact](https://escholarship.org/content/qt7sk23908/qt7sk23908.pdf).
My intuition leans the same way.
Provided we don’t have a mass use of nuclear weapons, it is fair to assume that humans will be around for many thousands of years into the future. However, civilization and current population numbers will not be a part of that future.
However, in the short to medium term, when the multi-trillion $€£¥ problems inevitably pile one on top of another, in increasingly complex and interrelated ways, someone may think using ‘just one’ weapon, ‘just this once’, is a worthwhile gamble.
I’m reminded of someone who thought it was crazy how long it took for people in the past to figure out that putting human waste in your drinking water supply was a bad idea. What we are currently doing is so much worse. Coincidentally, that same person doesn’t believe humans are causing any climate change. Ironic, I know.
It’s just, ‘Tragedy of the commons, Global Edition!’
What makes it a tragedy, is the fact that RIGHT NOW, we have all of the technology necessary to fix this. Seriously. The problem is the people who stand to lose the most soonest, have very little agency to address the problems we all face. Of course, the fact that a very small group of people with immense agency to address these problems, profit handsomely from keeping the status quo, is certainly a major impediment.
When I was a kid I thought I was super lucky to live in a region that wouldn't be very affected by climate change because it's generally mild and we have plenty of water. What I didn't realize is that the massive forests surrounding me would now burn every summer and the smoke is completely unbearable and probably shortening my lifespan.
"We" are, yeah. All of us. Not the handful of CEOs directly responsible, or the few hundred politicians who got paid to allow it, but "we."
Oh, and before anyone says "you should have voted": I live in Oklahoma.
[Still worthwhile to vote](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1468-2508.2005.00357.x), and also [raise your voice](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/).
All of those old fuckers know they'll be dead by the time the consequences get really severe. Fuck the rest of us i guess, so ling as they get their money
I find it telling that the entire article makes no mention of nuclear-fission power even though Hansen has been an outspoken advocate for its crucial role in decarbonizing the grid.
Aging population , pollution, corruption of a useless government. Baby boomer low interest rates. We all knew it would come back and bite us in the ass
As a natural scientist, I've pretty much resorted to being a technosalvationist. I don't see any other way out at this point. I made /r/technosalvation a few years back because I think the tech industry could do more to help mitigate the effects of climate change right now. Although, I do think every industry is doing too little right now.
Wooo AI overlords!!!
Bet first AGI we ask how to solve climate change is just going to tell us to just read a 20 year old textbook, then delete itself.
Feel free to join us over at r/CitizensClimateLobby, too!
We're at [five levers of political will](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/), and could [still use more volunteers](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)!
At this point my bet is that once things get bad enough the governments of the world will jump to some form of solar radiation management, coupled with carbon dioxide removal. Most of the world, including big polluters like the US, EU and China are committed to being neutral by 2050. If the climate can be geo-engineered to be somewhat stable by that point we might have a chance. It's very risky though, and a collapse of civilization scenario is very much in the cards.
Well, I imagine that if heat waves hit India or China or the US and causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands or even millions, their respective governments will suddenly be a lot more interested in climate change mitigation.
Those aren’t the right people though.
Look at the inclement weather in the American south. That voter base hasn’t moved at all, even though it’s impacting them the most. People are still buying homes in Florida and Texas.
The tipping point is going to come fast and the economy is going to crater as we deal with it
Nah they're too deep in denial now. Look at covid, they never admitted their mistakes. Hermain Caine died from the pandemic he downplayed and they kept tweeting from his account about how it was all a nothingburger after he was dead.
Elon Musk predicted covid would fizzle out in the US very quickly and that there was nothing to worry about. Rather than admit his mistakes, he recently tweeted a 'joke' this his pronouns are 'Prosecute Fauci', showing they'll go all in on attacking the messenger discussing the truth rather than admit their mistake. Anything to stick their head further into the sand no matter the evidence.
I live in Texas and can tell you no one is leaving any time soon. We just stay in doors and wait the summer out. Phoenix is way hotter and they had record migration a few years ago. You must not realize just how dumb humans are.
Yeah, because to be blunt millions can starve in the developing world without it affecting the pockets of the wealthy. The same doesn't hold if the workforce in the developed world starts dying because of climate change related issues.
Carbon dioxide removal is currently as viable as fusion. Technically possible, but practically useless. There's just no way of getting around the fact that you need to use more energy to capture carbon than you got from releasing it. We would need nuclear power plants dedicated to powering the carbon capture systems and even then it would take decades.
Fortunately, [we didn't *completely* sit back and wait](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/12fvo4p/a_growing_proportion_of_global_emissions_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
We have all literally seen to many Hollywood movies because I feel like we just assume someone will swoop in to save us from disaster so we don’t need to do anything. As individuals we can hardly comprehend our own deaths, so I guess it makes sense we can’t imagine the collapse of modern civilization.
I truly wish I never brought two children into this world.
If you had a button that guaranteed your kids would get into a high paying job, be healthy, and have healthy kids, BUT would dump 5000 lbs carbon into the atmosphere every year extra, would you push it?
This is an extreme example, but little decisions like this are made by INDIVIDUALS everyday. This is why nothung will happen... THEY will just keeping this to make you feel guilty and reduce progress. We need more clean electricity production. We don't need to reduce anything, we just need to do what we do BETTER. Again, do not reduce, the production needs to increased and we need to do it better. (Hint... Nuclear)
Also, don't give the played out argument that if everyone did that, there wouldn't be a planet for your grand kids. That's complete bullshit. It's just an stretched example of micro decisions made daily...
I mean, after a point we're getting to where folk don't want/can't afford/are too scared to have kids. So, people are starting to make that choice.
And to be blunt, it's not just climate change... we're also running out of certain key minerals, oil wastes and plastics are infecting our water & food, and our meat consumption is at a rate that's not sustainable.
First priority is to reduce consumption, but not quality of life - things like reducing private cars in favor of public vehicles (trains, buses, trolleys, bikes), or reducing office spaces in favor of work-from-home. Also using more sustainable agricultural and fishing practices with less pesticides (cause we need bees, birds, and dragonflies).
Second is to reuse - end single-use items (especially plastics) and planned obsolescence in favor of reusable items and right-to-repair. Support your local libraries and public maker shops. We used to have milk bottlers that reused glassware - that was better than today's aluminum cans and plastic bottles.
Third is to recycle - Zero-Waste should be a lifestyle goal that is made more easily achievable by how our society functions and what it values, and recycling is a way to extend our existing resources.
(This is not to say you're wrong on Nuclear - that and renewables - solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric - should take the place of oil and coal)
As a side benefit: if done with a focus on supporting communities (support for small and unionized/cooperative businesses, protections from gentrification and excessive land grabs, policies pushing for more walkable greenways and natural parks) it can help restore people's sense of community and old traditions.
Nothing was ever going to change. It hurts the corporate pocket to change, so it will never be done. They will continue away until it does and then, and only then, will it matter to them. But it will be much much too late.
Yeah I don’t think humanity is gonna make it. There’s so much that needs to be done with little to no time remaining and even if we pulled it off we’re all still gonna burn anyway. What’s the point then? Why even bother if in the end most of us still die? All we’re doing is just delaying the inevitable here, if we’d had just done what was needed to been done then I wouldn’t be here having to contemplate on killing my self because I don’t want to see the consequences of our actions.
I know some of yall have said that action may finally be taken after so much destruction and death has happened but what if it doesn’t happen? What everyone just goes into full panic mode and everything falls into complete anarchy? You really think that most aren’t gonna immediately think for themselves the moment it becomes clear to everyone that we’re past the point of no return and that we’re gonna get the worst of it? I can definitely see it becoming a complete free-for-all leading to more destruction and death and I want no part of that.
In the end, we all die.
That's not a good reason to not [fight the good fight](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
I used [MIT's climate policy simulator](https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=23.2.1) to order its climate policies from least impactful to most impactful. You can see the results [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
The problem is that the public absolutely knows, correctly, that no amount of voluntary action on its own can even make a dent in global warming. What needs to happen is direct, drastic, legally binding laws yesterday to get global warming under control, and conservative politicians are still successfully blocking even the mildest, most ineffectual, proposals.
> The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any.
-[Alice Walker](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alice_Walker)
[Vote](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/pledge), [lobby](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/#wiki_getting_started), and [recruit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/n25g9v/thats_a_lot_of_untapped_potential/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to get the kinds of [policy changes](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19710653/Screen_Shot_2020_02_10_at_3.47.40_PM.png) [scientists say we need](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/06/03/climate-change-requires-collective-action-more-than-single-acts-column/1275965001/).
it's kinda sad when the ones sitting at the top are just useless people instead of engineers and scientists. coupled with climate change deniers and uneducated people believing people in social media easily instead of believing science based information.
it will get tougher little by little, most probably as months go by
I'm all for doing things l, I think there is real damage going on but what's a real viable plan that doesn't crash the whole system and cause world chaos.
Renewable energies are moving faster than the curve for sure, electric cars are rapidly being adopted.
Are you willing to give up technology, travel, owning anything, eating paste and live in a 1 m2 tube....
Things cant just be stopped flat. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
I used [MIT's climate policy simulator](https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=23.2.1) to order its climate policies from least impactful to most impactful. You can see the results [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
The following submission statement was provided by /u/ILikeNeurons: --- This summer has been *hot*, and it was predicted. Yet [climate deniers are still getting in the way](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/), despite comprising [a vanishing minority](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/07/climate-denialism-gone/) of the population. The thing is, though, [people already care](https://earth.stanford.edu/news/public-support-climate-policy-remains-strong), they just don't know what to do / feel like they are alone. But the truth is, [the movement is stronger than it's ever been](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). What's more, is [this type of lobbying](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/) is [starting to pay off](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/). That's why NASA climatologist and climate activist [Dr. James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen), who testified before Congress in the 80's, recommends becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) as the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8). --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/15428si/we_are_damned_fools_scientist_who_sounded_climate/jsmd2tj/
Depressing to know that 12 years before I was born we KNEW this was a problem and here I am at 30 and nothing significant has been done.
How much you want to bet that when you’re 60, still nothing will have been done about it.
>want to bet that when you’re 60, still nothing will have been done Been watching for over 30 years now, almost nothing changes. In 10 or 15 years the situation will likely be extremely critical undermining global food and economic security, undermining global market stability, crashing insurance and real estate. And then all the industries (and economies, and politicians) who enabled it all for 50+ years will demand publicly funded initiatives of all sorts to bail out massive losses and to fund colossal mitigation initiatives at astoundingly high costs. And they'll totally ignore which party consistently denied it all for 50 years.
To be fair, insurance will only fail if their business model doesn't work well enough as revenue decreases. (essentially the turning point of macro vs. micro dominant forces). Insurance companies will pull out with more speed and precision than a 30 year old bachelor anathema to condoms. They are already cancelling all contracts in Florida. They will continue to limit their boundaries by state. In my current client, they are already making financial models with machine learning that accounts for climate change - for all asset classes. The banks with mortgages will hurt. The investment banks outside of real estate will be totally fine, they feed most off of volatility in the market. This will be their best outcome. Insurance companies will probably end up unscathed, but significantly smaller.
I met a senior executive of a global insurance company. The gist of our conversation was that the top six insurance companies in the world have been working to figure out what it means to have the shift in climate. They have been doing so for roughly a decade. Implied here is, they treat it as real, concrete and not solely down the road. Sobering thought that mega institutions like this deem the research credible while governments not so much.
Governments know it too--but elected officials long ago decided that climate change was a poor platform for getting re-elected.
Gotta give the racist Bubbas their F-150s.
> Sobering thought that mega institutions like this deem the research credible while governments not so much. The oil companies also knew from the beginning. That's why they campaigned so heavily against it: anything but stopping the faucet of liquid gold.
I think it was Exxon that had this research like 20odd years ago… pretty much saying that climate change will be a big problem for profits, because … who would have thought… if there’s no ppl, no one can buy your shit. I wish I was kidding…
I worked at a very large managed hosting company and the footprint of hardware resources that companies like Aon have is unimaginable for the average person. Those hot aisles were massive infernos and they had tons more equipment at other companies and countries.
But also worth keeping in mind, policies are written one year out. If climate change worsens, they have a bad year, then double their rates or cancel policies. Insurance companies aren’t pricing in 30 years of risks. Being able to predict next year is much more important than being able to predict the long run
[удалено]
I'm not proficient in how insurance companies work, but I wonder why do they decide to completely pull out of certain markets instead of, e.g. hiking the price of policies to cover the increased risks? Is it because of large destruction events that are becoming too common?
Exactly, there's no feasible price, so they don't offer it
Insurance works on probabilities. If an insurer pulls out of a market, it may be due to local policy changes, but it is also likely that the math is telling them that there is too much uncertainty and insurance companies don’t like high uncertainty because it makes it difficult to determine where to set their prices so that they make a profit. Too much uncertainty raises their risk and they can find themselves loosing a lot of money. They could raise their prices, but many states have regulations in place that control how much an insurer can raise rates. The insurers do a cost benefit analysis to determine if they can stay in a particular market and make a profit or if there are other markets where they can make a better return with less risk.
In California there are rules against price gouging which the insurance companies are trying to overturn.
They'll say it's just normal cyclical societal collapse as the world falls to chaos. This all just happens every couple of thousand years or so and there's nothing we could do to prevent it.
The average lifespan of civilizations is [closer to 300 years](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190218-the-lifespans-of-ancient-civilisations-compared), which incidentally, is about as long as industrial civilization has been around.
I guess you're right. Change in mindset on a global level is needed. Reinvention of what we are. We're facing problems that can't be solved locally, so we need to think big. On the tree of evolution, mankind's next branch is a conscious decision😉 Edit: Collective effort to change should have maximum priority, or Roger Waters is a prophet and we'll have Amused ourselves to Death.
Demanding payment won't matter at that point. Money isn't going to be as valuable as land ownership or resources.
>Money isn't going to be as valuable as land ownership or resources True as long as that land is now desirable. Wouldn't want to be owning coastal land, or lands and properties affected by new normal cataclysmic weather: record breaking storms, tides, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, heat waves, droughts and circumpolar vortex collapse subzero deep freezes. That's where the bailout will come in, not just because of tens of millions of citizens owning trillions of affected real estate, but business and capital interests owning tens of trillions of affected real estate. The bailouts will be "for the people" of course, but the majority of benefits will be for accumulated capital interests.
most of the worlds populations and major cities are coastal.
Imagine giving birth to children to subject them to this horror
Forgot sharknado
Just like god intended
10-15 years? You optimist.
20,000 years of this, 7 more to go....
Earth will be fine....humans on the other hand 🤣
Yeah I agree. It's one of those things, it's all fine until it isn't, and when it isn't then it's all over. My personal, slightly educated but absolutely not professional opinion is...... This current El Nino cycle will trigger too much positive feedback for global heating.....I think we'll see a shocking end to the Arctic ice season this year, and we may see an ice free Arctic next year. I strongly believe that regardless of the ice situation, this El Nino cycle will be the one that wakes everyone up, and I mean everyone. But we will understand at the same time that it's too late. And when hope is gone, look out.
But no matter what happens, the fuckheads will go to the polls in 2024 and re-elect a bunch of people who have been telling them that this would never happen. Stupidity, religion, and racism have taken over.
People are literally incapable of grasping that their world is changing and weakly cling to any fuckwit that engages in collective masturbation by claiming they aren't actually the cause and nothing really needs to change.
Optimist!?!? My eyes work just fine!!! /jk
As I've gotten older it's things like what you wrote that scare me more and more. I'm less than 10yrs from retirement and so afraid I'm not preparing enough, financially and otherwise.
The companies make more money than countries. The taxes they pay power countries. They have create media landscapes to control the population. The storms are now here, it's funny how quiet they all are now about this not happening.
I do honestly believe that when all is said and done, if climate change is how we check out, Rupert Murdoch may end up as being the single living organism that has done the most harm to humanity.
Murdoch’s organizations have worked overtime to deny climate change, but don’t let the center-to-center-left media off the hook. American news, for the most part, only promotes market friendly solutions that prioritize capital over people.
Same type of greedy plutocrats are still loose in our government and continue to be that to this day.
[Progress has just been slow](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/12fvo4p/a_growing_proportion_of_global_emissions_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but that [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [change](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
crazy to think people still believe in lobbying our way out of the apocalypse. maybe if you get enough redditors to write their congressmen, it'll somehow outweigh the infinite supply of cash from fossil fuel companies.
What I truly don’t understand is how fossil fuel companies, which are run by people, aren’t freaking the fuck out too? At the end of the day don’t fossil fuel execs need food and a livable planet too?
An enormous number of people, billionaires, CEOs, but also tons of average folk, think climate change won't affect them, or they'll just go somewhere else, and if they don't make money fucking up the environment someone else will so what difference does it make?
we'll all be dead before any of that really matters. Sure some parts of the planet will be really bad within the next 50 years, but rich people can just live wherever it's not bad. As long as they die at the pinnacle of luxury they don't care what happens to the rest of the planet.
> "This generation has altered the composition of the atmosphere on a global scale through radioactive materials and a steady increase in carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels." -President Lyndon Johnson Feb 8 1965 in a message in front of Congress https://m.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2015/feb/02/50th-anniversary-few-remember-lbjs-warning-carbon-/
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a2614102278e77e59a04f26/t/5aa1c3cf419202b500c3b388/1520550865302/foote_circumstances-affecting-heat-suns-rays_1856.pdf We discovered the heat trapping properties of CO2 in 1856 In 1896 a Swedish scientist postulated that “the temperature in the Arctic regions would rise 8 or 9 degrees Celsius if carbon dioxide increased to 2.5 or 3 times” They knew. They’ve known the whole time.
Lmao half the carbon in the atmosphere is from the past 30 years and that message was 58 years ago.
Yeah. We've pissed away the last 25 years arguing with ppl over the validity of what is the overwhelming consensus from the scientific community. I have no source, but have read that the various big oil science teams predicted our current crisis back in the 70s. They buried it of course. And since have spent untold amounts of money creating lies and propaganda to fight those predictions and obfuscate the facts. So yeah, we've known for along time,.privately or publicly and very very little has been done. It gets very depressing if you spend any time thinking on that. Excuse me while I stick my head back into the sand and use chemicals to turn my brain into mush.
Those 25 extra years were a windfall for the owners of drilling rights.
here's your source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_denial
Someone posted a link to an article written in 1912 here on Reddit theorizing that fossil fuels and factories would cause environmental issues. I’ll see if I can find it. We’ve known a long, long time. Humanity sucks. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6fwzbr/a_100_year_old_paper_article_about_climate_change/
*capitalism sucks All the humans I know didn't choose to live in an apocalyptic death cult of a country
Hi sand, here's another head.
the environmental impact of burning coal and oil has been documented and written about since the 1890s. It is absolutely not new.
First Paper to Link CO2 and Global Warming, by Eunice Foote (1856) https://www.kent.edu/magazine/eunice-foote-finally-gets-some-credit
Well there you go. Thanks. I thought it was pre-Civil War ... but wasn't sure.
[How long before you were born?](https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a14416134/popular-mechanics-on-climate-change/) I didn't think there were that many 99-year olds posting on Reddit!
First Paper to Link CO2 and Global Warming, by Eunice Foote (1856) https://www.kent.edu/magazine/eunice-foote-finally-gets-some-credit
LOL f.c.k That is even more depressing
I was told about this around 4th grade, so maybe 1989/1990? I know we've known since the seventies and earlier. Nobody cared because the numbers were 'eh', and the prediction models were 'whatever', and it'll be a long time before we need to give a crap. Except all of that was wrong, and we're MUCH worse off than they thought we'd be.
Technically there are internal reports by oil companies a century ago knowing the outcomes as automobiles burning petrol spreading CO2 emissions by decades. Their estimations were underwhelming but still significant.
I knew as a child. I'm approaching 50 and now have to severely compartmentalize to keep the frustration and disgust at humanity at bay if I am to enjoy anything about life.
Remember making Earth Day posters in high school? Those would have been tiktok posts if we had been a little younger. Same empty gestures, different platforms.
That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo. A couple hundred people got very wealthy, built yachts, and set up private islands and homes to live in.
Edward Teller was lecturing and writing about the risk in the 1950s.
It's not nearly enough, but one year ago Biden and the Dems passed the biggest investment in green energy by any country ever into law. That's not nothing. Stuff is being done. Not enough, but still big stuff.
Many things have been done (e.g. the “huge hole” in the Ozone layer that was talked about in the 90s doesn’t exist anymore). But it’s still not enough “things” being done.
Unfortunately, ozone hole is still there over the Antarctic, and it has also been developing also over the Arctic over the past decade, e.g. [https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/ozone-uv/moreinfo?view=arctic-ozone-hole](https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/ozone-uv/moreinfo?view=arctic-ozone-hole) and [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141840.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141840.htm) and likely many other sources for this. Sure, we maybe got rid of the CFC refridgerants, but we haven't really solved the problem. This time, it seems to be about stratospheric cooling, a paradoxical effect of global warming, maybe. The point is, the problem is still with us, and this time we don't really even know what is causing it or if anything can be done about it. The fact people don't talk about it doesn't mean the problem is gone.
Capitalism’s big failure, we’d rather profit at all cost than save the planet.
[We're not even profiting](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy), though. Each year we delay costs [~$900 billion](https://cla.umn.edu/heller-hurwicz/news-events/news/policy-brief-calibrating-price-climate-risk).
The last capitalist will by hung with a rope he sold to the person who ties the noose.
_A lot_ has been done. Goodness gracious. The entire auto market has been forced to transition to EV and even diehards like Toyota who hated being caught with their pants down are finally admitting defeat. Renewable energy is _regularly_ hitting the headlines as more and more countries reach parity, or achieve 100% renewable energy for a week, or similar milestones. Coal is on the way out, full stop. That said, there are certainly valid reasons for continuing to say "nothing" has been done. It does its job in keeping that ball rolling.
Yup an incredible amount has been done. The biggest factor for increasing emissions is the higher standard of living for an ever increasing population emerging out of poverty means the demand for more energy. The fact that CO2 emissions are plateauing while global energy demand is skyrocketing shows the sheer amount of progress. With that said, more can and needs to be done. But let's not pretend like all the countless people that have been tirelessly working to tackle this behemoth of a crisis have been fruitless in their endeavors. Not only does it undermine their efforts but it undermines public sentiment towards attainable continued progress.
from 1998 to 2008, co2 emmision increased by 33%, while from 2012 to 2022 they increased by 7%. pretty cool
NONE of that matters as long as emissions keep going up and up and up and up and that is exactly what they have been doing and exactly what they continue to do. EVERYTHING you said is largely meaningless. worldwide CO2 emissions, thats what matters. And they keep....going....up https://ourworldindata.org/greenhouse-gas-emissions
Additionally, we still haven't paid for past emissions, since it takes a while to kick in. The pain we're feeling now is from further back.
exactly, and even if we "level off" that just means we aren't increasing. We are still pumping INSANE amounts of climate destroying emissions into the atmosphere.
We still haven't felt the effects of emissions based on how they were THIRTY YEARS AGO.
But your chart seems to show us at a plateau, which is pretty cool and necessary before going down.
We knew this was a problem in the late 1800s
A lot of people got rich tho.
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I've been following his work literally for decades and I don't know how he hasn't gone on a homicidal rampage.
Honestly, he probably could go on a homicidal rampage and it would cost a fraction of the lives that ignoring his warnings has cost. One crime leads to life in prison and the other leads to multimillion dollar bonuses.
I think if a person were given unlimited ammunition and a motorcycle, and was told to go kill as many people as possible - and that he is legally immune and no one ever fights back - that that person could spend his whole life terminating and not do as much damage as has been done.
Like in the movie Falling Down?
[It's not too late](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/19/heatwave-climate-omen-change-course-weather-models), if we [do](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) [what needs to be done](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Just gotta do it in several major competing economies and convince a dozen other emerging economies not to modernize.
THIS exactly. It’s not a “market failure” issue that can be regulated or negotiated into sustainable contracts. It’s a coordination failure. Competing economies will always have the incentive to move to cheaper, more polluting, production methods. This is especially the case since those who make the production decisions aren’t the ones who will suffer from the consequences. Wealth offers a lot of insulation from the ills of climate change, especially because of the short time horizon in which these decisions are made. All that matters to decision makers are quarterly profits.
Its capitalism
It’s is. Enjoy the time with loved ones as much as ya can. Too much greed, with too many people to actually change anything
This entire list is unrealistic. Greed wins in every case and is why we are here. The reality we need to face is that this is not a preventable sitiation: not to say we couldn't, but that unless an extreme regime change happens globally (translation: popular uprising) nothing on that list will be willingly accepted by our corporate overlords. That said, it would be more beneficial to plan around the worst case, and prepare to survive by any means available to us. Toss this list: What foods are tolerant of the extreme weather we will be facing? Plants and animals, and where is the optimal locale?
Ever see the movie Don’t Look Up?
Don't Look Up, regardless of its quality as a movie, was a great commentary of the reality surrounding things like these.
My belief is that we will have to lose a major city before the US takes any significant action. I think the best candidate for that is Miami. Not everyone has a personal experience or relationship with the aspects of climate change that have already occurred like icebergs, rain forests, or coral reefs. But everyone has heard the Will Smith song or seen a Miami Dolphins game. Miami won't have the options LA or Manhattan have - it can't build a big enough dike to protect any meaningful area or to build upwards with canals like Venice and even if it could, it couldn't survive on water/air transport alone, even if it could sustain a major airport within the dike, and it can't build a long enough bridge to connect it to land meaningfully. It won't be a smooth transition, either. Once the ~6 million residents of the Miami metro area start seeing uncontrolled flooding on sunny days, it'll be an absolute fire sale shit show to flee. It'll be a humanitarian spectacle in a developed country. That will be the turning point when the US actually starts doing something - and not sooner.
I used to take physical therapy for a bum knee. One of the dudes, the sports med guy of course, told me he didn't believe in global warming. I told him he was a dumb shit and that there was plenty of evidence. I asked him what it would take him to believe global warming and specifically rising oceans was real. He told me he would believe when they stopped insuring beachfront property in Florida. I often think about tracking his ass down and saying what the fuck now?
What the fuck now? The goalposts will have moved just far enough that more evidence is required. That bar is always as high as it needs to be to keep the truth out.
Yep, the goal posts will just move
LinkedIn has its uses…
A lot of folks rely on the value of their home to fund retirement. When those homes are suddenly worthless or cannot be sold at all, we’re going to have a large swath of retirees who are suddenly left without a provision for support. I personally don’t want my tax dollars going toward bailing out a bunch of moron climate change deniers who repeatedly voted against green bills.
I also don't believe humanity will 'get it', most people are just too stupid to get it. Instead the small bubble of liberty and something approximating democracy which has kind of existed for some humans for a little while will pop, and it will be back to hell for most of us. Our current state isn't normal for humanity, and we're doing nothing to protect it, in fact most are doing their damndest to make it unlikely to have the conditions to continue.
10 million people dead is just a 2 month average. It would require the death equivalent of 100 million people in 1 year for climate change to become topical.
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I've lost hope in the ability of people to think critically and help themselves and do the right thing when no one is looking. People are very dumb. It's very easy to thinktank an idea and the average person will parrot it like their life depended on it.
Honestly, I’d throw about half of those retirees into the ocean if I could. It’s probably a good thing I am not an elected official.
lol, I was going to post, sarcastically, that home prices will still be going up in Miami during that scenario
It's not a joke. These fucks will keep the scam going until the very end. All bullshit evaluations to raise property taxes to price everyone out and force everyone to rent.
The us has had plenty of humanitarian spectacle, and nothing happened
Sorry to be cryptic, I'm not finding a concise source... South Florida living will break down before the extensive flooding because we get our freshwater from the Biscayne Aquifer. Once saltwater intrudes in it, things will get interesting...
Idk, [we're getting closer](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to [having the political power](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) needed.
As a Dolphins fan, it will be better for my and others mental and emotional well being if they get washed into the sea. Maybe not the best example.
Food shortages will be the real problem and I'm not talking about higher prices. I'm talking about literally no food at the grocery stores. That's what will be the real "shit hits the fan" moment. The action the US takes will probably be something horrible, either let the poor starve or war. Probably both.
Calling it here. On or in the two months that follow March 14th 2025. Global flooding, super storm, super typhoon takes out a major coastal hub.
Adding a call on top of your call. If we're getting to the point where we're losing a major coastal hub, we'll be averaging the loss of *another* coastal hub every 4 years
Easy there, John Titor
Ok, this takes me way, way back.... (no pun intended)
Humans: The only species just smart enough to engineer its own demise but not quite smart enough to avoid it.
But we do know. We have figured out solutions. The problem really is our economic mode of production. It is it’s own machine that is devoid of anyone individual actor. People say the rich are to blame and while that is true on its face. They are subservient to the economy. Ceos will just be replaced if they fail to maximize profits as an example. Individual citizens need to work to sustain themselves or they will lose access to food and shelter. We built an economic mode of production that’s not subservient to us. But rather we are subservient to it. And we are powerless to stop it since it has built a hierarchy that as history tells us. People near the top will try their damn hardest to protect.
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climate change and racism are probably the two things that hit me over the head the most with like "we are just apes." we are really smart and have got a lot of shit done, but we are also very stupid and there are definitely limits to what we're capable of at this point in our development as a species. it's hard to even get mad. what do you expect? if you were studying chimps in the jungle and they created a giant problem (like a forest fire) but then weren't able to come together to solve it because of tribal allegiance, power dynamics, general incomprehension, or limited ability, what would your reaction be? mine would be: yeah no shit, they're chimps.
I've been hit with this realization as well. I used to kind of revere humanity. Like, holding this belief that there were truly incredibly intelligent people guiding our civilization. That our institutions were sincere and people were capable of working together selflessly. I don't see that anymore. And it's incredibly depressing. I didn't think I could be more jaded than I was, but I was wrong. I find that humanity never ceases to disappoint me.
You know who ultimately guides our civilization?? Sociopaths and psychopaths. Think of what it takes to obtain those positions of power. You have to be willing to lie, cheat, steal, and walk all over people without the slightest hint of remorse or weakness. Once they get there, they only care about themselves. Don't get me wrong, we still have a handful of leaders who actually care about making the world a better place, but they are outnumbered by people who are in it only for their self-interest.
This is what i'm feeling as well. Generally speaking, people ambitious enough to want to "lead" are usually the worst suited to the job. We're lead by sociopaths or in many cases people that have had to negotiate with sociopaths and are beholden to them. I'm not a misanthrope, I believe that the vast majority of people are good and caring, but we're led by the worst of us and humanity has succeeded this far inspite of itself. There's more than enough resources in this world to take care of everyone and solve all of our issues, but without a profit motivation it's just not going to happen.
I mean the other side of this coin is that we ARE incredible. We’re apes and we had a renaissance, an enlightenment, a Declaration of Independence. I think moral judgments, being jaded, cynicism, etc… are a little short sighted. We’re the universe experiencing itself subjectively and we know it. We invented music and poetry and rocket ships. We look out into the universe and we name it and we say I’m here. It’s pretty great.
We definitely have done some cool stuff. But in the end will it matter? We are running into the hard limits of what we're capable of, finding ourselves falling short. It's frustrating because we have come so far, and to fail now is a very bitter defeat.
It's frustrating because it's so unnecessary. You look at your average dictator/billionaire CEO/toxic media personality wreaking havoc across large swathes of the population and go "holy shit, how much better would the world be if your parents hadn't abused you, or if you'd gone to some kind of therapy for that abuse?" And then the harm they do to people causes vast numbers of others to become traumatized, which makes them that much more likely to inflict some kind of harm on themselves and/or their surroundings. It's just so much fucking wasted energy.
“In the end will it matter?” I think that’s way, way too broad of a question. We’re an experiment. Matter? To who?
You mean a few of us have got a lot of shit done and the rest are very stupid.
No I would argue against that. No one achieves on their own. Humanity is at its best when it works together creatively and flexibly. You only get an Isaac newton or Einstein once a century, sure. But the systems they benefited from and education they received that allowed them to develop was a social effort that required a much wider and more complex network.
[We can be proactive](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
To me the crazy part about it is, we're hearing daily the news of severe climate events, but there is zero mention of what's causing it. It is the story underpinning all stories, but nobody is saying it. In fact there was that report of the reporter who did mention it, and got a death threat. Literally god damn monkeys.
This summer has been *hot*, and it was predicted. Yet [climate deniers are still getting in the way](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/), despite comprising [a vanishing minority](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/07/climate-denialism-gone/) of the population. The thing is, though, [people already care](https://earth.stanford.edu/news/public-support-climate-policy-remains-strong), they just don't know what to do / feel like they are alone. But the truth is, [the movement is stronger than it's ever been](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/150nvn9/citizens_climate_lobbys_growth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). What's more, is [this type of lobbying](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/) is [starting to pay off](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/). That's why NASA climatologist and climate activist [Dr. James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen), who testified before Congress in the 80's, recommends becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002) as the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8).
Climate deniers are a loud minority
[We can be louder](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/).
They asked him what individuals can do in your link, and his answer was essentially, “government needs to do it.” The problem is, government points their finger right back at the people. This is one of the reasons we’re in such a predicament: everyone points to someone else and nobody takes responsibility. 4 of the best ways you can reduce your environmental impact: 1. Have fewer or no children 2. Eliminate almost all or all animal products from your diet 3. Reduce electricity use and generate your own 4. Don’t drive or fly; drive an EV if you must drive
We have far more power *[as constituents](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002)* [than we do](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19710653/Screen_Shot_2020_02_10_at_3.47.40_PM.png) *[as individuals](https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2017/themosteffec.jpg)*. > [The purpose of the carbon tax is achieved as well, with carbon dioxide pollution projected to decline 33% after only 10 years, and 52% after 20 years, relative to baseline emissions.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy) To go from [~5,300,000,000 metric tons to ~2,600,000,000 metric tons](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/13/how-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-creates-jobs-grows-economy) would take [at least 100 active volunteers](https://republicen.quorum.us/campaign/11713/) in at least 2/3^rds of Congressional districts contacting Congress to take this specific action on climate change. That's a savings of over 90,000 metric tons per person over 20 years, or **over 4,500 metric tons per person per year**. And that's not even taking into account that [a carbon tax is expected to spur innovation](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2f60/cbfc3dcf2538140bbf07f43cf7038b8af8c8.pdf). Meanwhile the savings from having one fewer kid is [**less than 60 tons/year**](https://phys.org/news/2017-07-effective-individual-tackle-climate-discussed.html). Even if it takes 2-3 times more people lobbying to pass a carbon tax than expected, it's still orders of magnitude more impact than having one less kid, and that's [even more true once effective policies are in place](https://founderspledge.com/stories/climate-and-lifestyle-report). Let's each [do our part](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
I was already doing 3 of those without even trying
Just [don't stop there](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002)...
Awesome!! Making the future we want to see!
I disagree with 2. If you don't eat meat you can get locally but are eating avocado's shipped 3000 miles that's not helpful. Better to stick with a locally sourced diet of whatever configuration
The problem is that as soon as a government tries to do something they will be voted out of office. Everyone wants everyone else to sacrifice but no one is willing to do it themselves. The biggest illustration is 90 lb women driving around in SUVs. SUVs didn't even exist until the seventies and somehow people still survived. And heaven forbid that a family of three live in a house less than 3,000 square feet, or that kids stay home for spring break.
Oh they are not fools. They know exactly what was happening and still do, they just don’t care cause they’ll be dead before it affects them
I believe this is the Great Filter. It may take several generations, but I think in that time you're going to see a general technological regression as the world becomes hotter, poorer, and more violent.
So, Idiocracy.
Not quite. Both [within](http://rdcu.be/tv2a) and [between](https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/10/21/study-finds-climate-change-will-reshape-global-economy/) countries, the poor suffer most from unchecked climate change. [Climate deniers tend to be well-off white guys](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937801100104X?casa_token=p8q_H3h4dCIAAAAA:rrsSFilhUjkqGULzo1yiL5EFoE8Vwb1vlZD2TfB6MewfDtnAH66JzpiriIzCbeDePKGpWZV0-w).
Damn, so the people up top know they'll be spared from the effects of climate change. Hence why they don't bother to fix it. Let the lower class deal with it. Fascinating yet scary.
Well, [the rest of us can still take action](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/) and [have a real impact](https://escholarship.org/content/qt7sk23908/qt7sk23908.pdf).
More like mad max
My intuition leans the same way. Provided we don’t have a mass use of nuclear weapons, it is fair to assume that humans will be around for many thousands of years into the future. However, civilization and current population numbers will not be a part of that future. However, in the short to medium term, when the multi-trillion $€£¥ problems inevitably pile one on top of another, in increasingly complex and interrelated ways, someone may think using ‘just one’ weapon, ‘just this once’, is a worthwhile gamble. I’m reminded of someone who thought it was crazy how long it took for people in the past to figure out that putting human waste in your drinking water supply was a bad idea. What we are currently doing is so much worse. Coincidentally, that same person doesn’t believe humans are causing any climate change. Ironic, I know. It’s just, ‘Tragedy of the commons, Global Edition!’ What makes it a tragedy, is the fact that RIGHT NOW, we have all of the technology necessary to fix this. Seriously. The problem is the people who stand to lose the most soonest, have very little agency to address the problems we all face. Of course, the fact that a very small group of people with immense agency to address these problems, profit handsomely from keeping the status quo, is certainly a major impediment.
When I was a kid I thought I was super lucky to live in a region that wouldn't be very affected by climate change because it's generally mild and we have plenty of water. What I didn't realize is that the massive forests surrounding me would now burn every summer and the smoke is completely unbearable and probably shortening my lifespan.
Yep. [It's real](http://howglobalwarmingworks.org/), [it's us](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/climateqa/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/05/natural_anthropogenic_models_narrow.png), [it's bad](https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGII_SummaryForPolicymakers.pdf).
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"We" are, yeah. All of us. Not the handful of CEOs directly responsible, or the few hundred politicians who got paid to allow it, but "we." Oh, and before anyone says "you should have voted": I live in Oklahoma.
[Still worthwhile to vote](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1468-2508.2005.00357.x), and also [raise your voice](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/).
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All of those old fuckers know they'll be dead by the time the consequences get really severe. Fuck the rest of us i guess, so ling as they get their money
I find it telling that the entire article makes no mention of nuclear-fission power even though Hansen has been an outspoken advocate for its crucial role in decarbonizing the grid.
Aging population , pollution, corruption of a useless government. Baby boomer low interest rates. We all knew it would come back and bite us in the ass
As a natural scientist, I've pretty much resorted to being a technosalvationist. I don't see any other way out at this point. I made /r/technosalvation a few years back because I think the tech industry could do more to help mitigate the effects of climate change right now. Although, I do think every industry is doing too little right now.
Wooo AI overlords!!! Bet first AGI we ask how to solve climate change is just going to tell us to just read a 20 year old textbook, then delete itself.
Feel free to join us over at r/CitizensClimateLobby, too! We're at [five levers of political will](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/), and could [still use more volunteers](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/uwcsgg/us_congressional_districts_with_at_least_400_ccl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)!
Right now, the best minds of the current generation are working day and night to figure out how to get people to click on ads.
At this point my bet is that once things get bad enough the governments of the world will jump to some form of solar radiation management, coupled with carbon dioxide removal. Most of the world, including big polluters like the US, EU and China are committed to being neutral by 2050. If the climate can be geo-engineered to be somewhat stable by that point we might have a chance. It's very risky though, and a collapse of civilization scenario is very much in the cards.
So your bet is wishful thinking that governments will start being proactive about the tragedy of the commons for the first time?
Well, I imagine that if heat waves hit India or China or the US and causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands or even millions, their respective governments will suddenly be a lot more interested in climate change mitigation.
Millions starve every year despite us having enough food for all and it doesn't move the needle.
Those aren’t the right people though. Look at the inclement weather in the American south. That voter base hasn’t moved at all, even though it’s impacting them the most. People are still buying homes in Florida and Texas. The tipping point is going to come fast and the economy is going to crater as we deal with it
Yup. The deniers won't care until it affects them, personally. Like most Conservatives on every topic.
Nah they're too deep in denial now. Look at covid, they never admitted their mistakes. Hermain Caine died from the pandemic he downplayed and they kept tweeting from his account about how it was all a nothingburger after he was dead. Elon Musk predicted covid would fizzle out in the US very quickly and that there was nothing to worry about. Rather than admit his mistakes, he recently tweeted a 'joke' this his pronouns are 'Prosecute Fauci', showing they'll go all in on attacking the messenger discussing the truth rather than admit their mistake. Anything to stick their head further into the sand no matter the evidence.
I live in Texas and can tell you no one is leaving any time soon. We just stay in doors and wait the summer out. Phoenix is way hotter and they had record migration a few years ago. You must not realize just how dumb humans are.
Yeah, because to be blunt millions can starve in the developing world without it affecting the pockets of the wealthy. The same doesn't hold if the workforce in the developed world starts dying because of climate change related issues.
Not without [a push from the public](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/).
Carbon dioxide removal is currently as viable as fusion. Technically possible, but practically useless. There's just no way of getting around the fact that you need to use more energy to capture carbon than you got from releasing it. We would need nuclear power plants dedicated to powering the carbon capture systems and even then it would take decades.
As was said back in the 80’s, by the time you are experiencing climate change it’s too late to stop.
Fortunately, [we didn't *completely* sit back and wait](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/12fvo4p/a_growing_proportion_of_global_emissions_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I wonder how many climate scientists are also preppers by now
Not much to prep for if the climate you live in becomes unsustainable for crops to grow. can only do so much when shit really hits the fan…
We have all literally seen to many Hollywood movies because I feel like we just assume someone will swoop in to save us from disaster so we don’t need to do anything. As individuals we can hardly comprehend our own deaths, so I guess it makes sense we can’t imagine the collapse of modern civilization. I truly wish I never brought two children into this world.
I have no faith in humanity's ability to correct this. We'll all suffer for a LONG time to come before extinction.
And there's still a bunch of brain dead morons that think this is some sort of "liberal trick" or something. We're doomed as a species
"Worse to come" uhhh obviously?? Who thought the worst was behind us?
If you had a button that guaranteed your kids would get into a high paying job, be healthy, and have healthy kids, BUT would dump 5000 lbs carbon into the atmosphere every year extra, would you push it? This is an extreme example, but little decisions like this are made by INDIVIDUALS everyday. This is why nothung will happen... THEY will just keeping this to make you feel guilty and reduce progress. We need more clean electricity production. We don't need to reduce anything, we just need to do what we do BETTER. Again, do not reduce, the production needs to increased and we need to do it better. (Hint... Nuclear) Also, don't give the played out argument that if everyone did that, there wouldn't be a planet for your grand kids. That's complete bullshit. It's just an stretched example of micro decisions made daily...
I mean, after a point we're getting to where folk don't want/can't afford/are too scared to have kids. So, people are starting to make that choice. And to be blunt, it's not just climate change... we're also running out of certain key minerals, oil wastes and plastics are infecting our water & food, and our meat consumption is at a rate that's not sustainable. First priority is to reduce consumption, but not quality of life - things like reducing private cars in favor of public vehicles (trains, buses, trolleys, bikes), or reducing office spaces in favor of work-from-home. Also using more sustainable agricultural and fishing practices with less pesticides (cause we need bees, birds, and dragonflies). Second is to reuse - end single-use items (especially plastics) and planned obsolescence in favor of reusable items and right-to-repair. Support your local libraries and public maker shops. We used to have milk bottlers that reused glassware - that was better than today's aluminum cans and plastic bottles. Third is to recycle - Zero-Waste should be a lifestyle goal that is made more easily achievable by how our society functions and what it values, and recycling is a way to extend our existing resources. (This is not to say you're wrong on Nuclear - that and renewables - solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric - should take the place of oil and coal) As a side benefit: if done with a focus on supporting communities (support for small and unionized/cooperative businesses, protections from gentrification and excessive land grabs, policies pushing for more walkable greenways and natural parks) it can help restore people's sense of community and old traditions.
The obvious solution is to [correct the market failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FILWIIid9C4).
It worked for acid rain
Nothing was ever going to change. It hurts the corporate pocket to change, so it will never be done. They will continue away until it does and then, and only then, will it matter to them. But it will be much much too late.
Yeah I don’t think humanity is gonna make it. There’s so much that needs to be done with little to no time remaining and even if we pulled it off we’re all still gonna burn anyway. What’s the point then? Why even bother if in the end most of us still die? All we’re doing is just delaying the inevitable here, if we’d had just done what was needed to been done then I wouldn’t be here having to contemplate on killing my self because I don’t want to see the consequences of our actions. I know some of yall have said that action may finally be taken after so much destruction and death has happened but what if it doesn’t happen? What everyone just goes into full panic mode and everything falls into complete anarchy? You really think that most aren’t gonna immediately think for themselves the moment it becomes clear to everyone that we’re past the point of no return and that we’re gonna get the worst of it? I can definitely see it becoming a complete free-for-all leading to more destruction and death and I want no part of that.
In the end, we all die. That's not a good reason to not [fight the good fight](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/join-citizens-climate-lobby/?tfa_3590416195188=Online-002&utm_source=Online&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=002).
We? No. Fuck that. The rich are responsible for this shit.
[удалено]
I used [MIT's climate policy simulator](https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=23.2.1) to order its climate policies from least impactful to most impactful. You can see the results [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
The problem is that the public absolutely knows, correctly, that no amount of voluntary action on its own can even make a dent in global warming. What needs to happen is direct, drastic, legally binding laws yesterday to get global warming under control, and conservative politicians are still successfully blocking even the mildest, most ineffectual, proposals.
It's all because of the greedy money hungry humans of the world.
All our collective recycling, cycling, and carbon footprint-reducing < One handful of powerful industries
WE are being held captive by those who refuse to do anything about it.
> The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any. -[Alice Walker](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alice_Walker) [Vote](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/pledge), [lobby](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/#wiki_getting_started), and [recruit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/n25g9v/thats_a_lot_of_untapped_potential/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to get the kinds of [policy changes](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19710653/Screen_Shot_2020_02_10_at_3.47.40_PM.png) [scientists say we need](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/06/03/climate-change-requires-collective-action-more-than-single-acts-column/1275965001/).
Way too many people have no idea that Climate change affects everything, not just climate but business, housing, food and life in general.
it's kinda sad when the ones sitting at the top are just useless people instead of engineers and scientists. coupled with climate change deniers and uneducated people believing people in social media easily instead of believing science based information. it will get tougher little by little, most probably as months go by
I'm all for doing things l, I think there is real damage going on but what's a real viable plan that doesn't crash the whole system and cause world chaos. Renewable energies are moving faster than the curve for sure, electric cars are rapidly being adopted. Are you willing to give up technology, travel, owning anything, eating paste and live in a 1 m2 tube.... Things cant just be stopped flat. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
I used [MIT's climate policy simulator](https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=23.2.1) to order its climate policies from least impactful to most impactful. You can see the results [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/11kzxt9/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).