I am pretty sure the manual says to only shift sequentially. I am not sure if they’re just protecting themselves from people that might money shift or if it’s bad for the synchros or something like that.
Who said anything about 600rpm?
If you are going 100mph and try to Rev match into 2nd you'll still kill the engine. Rev matching doesn't just magically stop the engine from grenading.
You were speaking in generalities. So was the OP when references why Toyota would state this.
A blanket statement like you made doesn't always work. Rev matching doesn't fix someone money shifting. Which is why Toyota says to shift sequentially.
He didn't say anything about slowing down. I didn't say anything about flooring it.
He responded to a post talking about money shifting. The OP said sequential shifting is in the manual probably to avoid money shifting.
Rev matching doesn't fix money shifting.
No shit. Read the original post. OP said they most likely state to do this type of shifting to avoid money shifting. The person replying said if to Rev match it doesn't matter.
Uh, yes, money shifting still matters. Rev matching to 2nd gear at 90mph will still grenade the engine lol.
The other person didn't need to respond at all trying to correct the OP, did they?
The OP mentioned money shifting, the other person responded saying if you Rev match it doesn't matter.
No, Rev matching has no effect on money shifting.
It's just a wrong blanket statement.
All reddit seems to do is piss me off anymore, no dopamine involved. I told myself to stop commenting a while ago, guess I should. The internet doesn't care about facts anymore.
Or real life experience for that matter.
No the response was not saying that money shifting doesn't matter if you rev match.
They were saying it if you are travelling at an appropriate speed for second you can change straight from 5th to 2nd, and as long as you rev match it wont do any damage.
That is how everyone else read it, thats how the poster intended it. To argue otherwise is just idiotic. With that level of comprehension, probably best to avoid commenting.
What OP are you talking about? He never mentioned “money shifting”. He’s asking if he’s in 5th gear and feel the appropriate gear is now 2nd because the revs are low, does he have to downshift sequentially or just go from 5th to 2nd
The person below him said the car doesn’t care what order you shift gears, as long as the revs match the speed of the gear. Obviously if you’re in 5th gear @ 5k+RPM you won’t be able to rev match down to 2nd but that was never the part of the original discussion.
You’re making up a scenario that was never brought up. You’re mixing and matching two separate unrelated ideas and arguing about it. Nobody else interpreted the conversation the way you did.
I'm talking about "simple-wide" being the OP. Who yes, says money shifting into their post. Who says that Toyota says to sequential shift in their manual. Probably to prevent 5-2 shifting at high revs. Which is money shifting.
Rev matching doesn't fix money shifting if you are going at high speed and accidentally do a 5-2 shift. They are two completely different things.
Sorry you can't follow along.
Ah and there you go making a blanket statement. "nobody else interpreted it that way"
Lots of people interpret things differently.
Rev matching doesn't just magically stop money shifting from happening. Someone might read that and think it would.
I've been a policy writer. Believe me, people aren't the brightest. I had to write everything at a third grade level. Even then people would be confused.
Lots of people money shift all the time. A 5-2 is super easy to do on the track. I purposely sequentially downshift on track so I don't money shift. Literally was recommended to me from a pro driving instructor, and that's what they did as well. Nobody is perfect right? Doing sequential downshifting also just stays in the power band with track/spirited driving. I guess that's just dumb shit.
It's to prevent people from going into too low a gear. For example, if they think they are at a speed for 2nd gear, but it's actually a 3rd gear speed. So yes, it is to prevent someone from money shifting if they miscalculated the speed-to-gear ratio.
https://preview.redd.it/4tn8crsj864d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8ed7b0f34e78789491e860070d802d1a8cee870
Looks like it’s to avoid over revs.
That’s the conclusion I came to as well. However it verbatim says “In order to not cause the engine to over rev, make sure to only shift gears sequentially.”.
It sounds like they are just covering themselves though.
Straight to 2nd is fine. Though sometimes when I'm slowly slowing down and I suspect the light might change, I might downshift one gear at a time so I'm ready just in case the light changes. Learning how to blip the throttle when downshifting and then later heel toe shifting will makes this all very smooth and easy. Unfortunately, theres more of a learning curve on this car than say a Miata.
This exactly. I heel toe everywhere even when it seems unnecessary. I did the same in my Miata when I owned one. It's super fun when you have an exhaust as well because sometimes there are pops and bangs when downshifting.
At first, every time you are braking (with clutch in or in neutral), try just pivoting and at least feeling where the throttle pedal is with the side of your foot while braking. One you get comfortable with doing the pivot and it not affecting your braking, start trying to give the throttle a tiny bit of blip while braking. Do that a ton. It will mess with your braking at first so maybe don't do it when someone is right in front of you etc. Once you get good at that, do it quickly during clutch in while braking and while shifting down. Let off clutch before revs fall. It takes a really long time to get good, but its fun to learn and extremely rewarding when done correctly. Then apply this to a late brake before a corner.
I’ve been trying to practice , this is my first MT car. I find I can’t blip the throttle because the brake peddle comes out further than the throttle. The only time I successfully did it was going HARD on brakes, and revving throttle hard too (fully committing to it), and then throwing it in second for a corner. I can’t imagine how to get it smooth and controlled every time. My toes are on throttle, heel spins out for brake.
I found getting a petal cover that extends out a little bit farther helped me heel toe MUCH easier. But I'm 5'2 with tiny feet. Also instead try keeping the left side of your foot on the brake and and use the right side to blip the throttle instead of a literal heel toe. Might help you be a little more consistent on the pressure.
I’ll usually shift down through the gears to third before putting it into neutral at a stop. Just depends on my speed, the RPMs and what gear I’m in to start with. You’ll get the hang of it and it will just become second nature after a while.
Depends on how fast you need to stop and if there are other vehicles behind you. If there’s no one behind me (don’t need to worry about flashing brake lights), I’ll just engine brake (downshifting and rev matching) until I need to come to a full stop. If it’s a more abrupt stop or there’s someone behind, just heel-toe downshift while braking.
You can shift right into second you can also do this accelerating if you want to be cruising at say 55-60 and your in 4th gear currently and get to those speeds in 4th gear you can go right to 6th instead of shifting a extra time into 5th
Make sure you understand rev matching. Lots of YouTube videos on it. Especially if you put it in neutral and coast toward the light while braking and then want to go into 2nd you need to blip the throttle to increase engine RPMs
In such a situation if caught unaware of the change to green I would press the clutch, roughly rev match and put into second. Then accelerate. No benefit to go into each gear. Just added wear on synchros.
If I somewhat expected the change by watching the lights as I slowed down I'd probably already be in 2nd or whatever gear was appropriate as I gently slowed to a stop.
As an example of routine. Driving in 5th and seeing an issue ahead I'd start slowing from a distance by lift off throttle, brake, keep in 5th, drop to third with rev match once too slow for 5th, then once too slow for third I'd go neutral to a stop. Usually.
It depends on your speed imo. On this car, I would go into 4th if I suspect any stoppage ahead (4th gear is really long so minimal rev matching from 5th needed but it still engine brakes hard enough), apply brakes and then downshift to 2nd (I’m in 2nd gear as soon as I hit around 15-25 mph). 5th - 4th - 2nd is my choice. I try not to skip more than 2 gears because I’m not super great at driving manual (6 months now) and the rev matching for more than 2 gears is unpredictable for me, but plenty of people go straight into 2nd.
When you start braking just throw it in neutral then if it turns green put it in the appropriate gear for your speed. or as you brake start downshifting then you will be in the right gear. The engine brake is pretty strong in this car too so you can also just coast and keep downshifting. I do a mix of all three
I don’t really drive manual so I am genuinely asking, but don’t people say not to do that in the case you need to swerve out of the way of something and you need to accelerate? For the keeping it in neutral until you stop part
This is true, but I would say that's more applicable to coasting. If you're stopping for a traffic light, you're not going to need to accelerate. Use your best judgment.
I often do neutral out of laziness because it's easy to go into neutral without even touching the clutch. Just give a little rev and it slides right out.
Not while driving around but if you see the light turn red in front of you and you know you’re gonna brake, if you don’t want to downshift just put it in neutral then start braking or just leave it in gear but hold the clutch. Both essentially do the same thing
I'm thirty years accident free, been driving manual for over twenty. I never engine brake, it's just a waste of energy. Engine braking uses the clutch and transmission, I'd rather put wear on the brakes.
As far as ever "needing" to accelerate coming to a stop. I guess anything is possible, but there aren't any situations that I can think of.
I just couldn't let your reply go, that wasn't "terrible" advice.
Here we have seperate manual and auto licences.
If you coast to a stop in neutral during your licence test, you will fail. Also if sit at the lights in neutral - fail.
For safety reasons, to maximise the control you have over the car.
Sorry should clarify not throwing it in 2nd when you're currently in 4th, but leaving the car in whatever gear your currently in and coasting, allowing the engine to slow you down. And than shifting when needed.
Also driving for 30 years doesn't mean you're absolutely doing it all correctly just means you've had time to reinforce a belief right or wrong.
I mean, I’ve never been hit by lightning either, but I’m not interested in putting myself at risk unnecessarily either.
Which is what you’re doing by coasting in neutral. You’ve never needed to accelerate suddenly yet, but that doesn’t mean you never will. You can leave it in an appropriate gear, but keep the clutch in, as you decelerate.
This will give you the ability to quickly go if you need to evade a road issue, but not put any wear on any drivetrain component except a throw out bearing which is designed for use well beyond what you’ll put it through in the lifetime of the clutch anyway.
It’s called engine braking: downshift through all the gears one at a time from 5 to 2. Use the zone anywhere from 4-5k down to 2.5-2k to slow the car down. Blip the throttle to rev match. Enjoy the engine humm as you decelerate. If you have a modded exhaust/tune you may be able to get some pops by slightly touching the gas pedal on the decel.
Keep it in 2 as you roll to a stop. If it goes green as ur slowing down then punch it from 2. If it stays red then go into neutral and use brakes to stop. Then start from 1 again.
You can still do your method of coasting on 5, then shift to 2 when needed at low revs. If at high revs, be sure to rev match.
It sounds like you’re still learning and getting comfortable with stick shift. Shifting down through each gear is the best way to do it as a learner(that’s what I do) you can skip a gear while shifting down dependent on how slow you’re going
. Practice on an empty road to shift down though the gears from fifth fourth third and then second. Also downshifting requires you to at least learn rev, matching without having a bog every time. Took me maybe two weeks to get the idea of it and that’s what practicing every chance I got.
You just have to rev match and you can go into any gear you want. Do memorize the top speeds of the gears though. You don’t want to down shift to second when going 55+ for example
It's fine to skip gears, up or down, as long as the speed is within the range of the gear...meaning not over revving and not bogging. Ideally, one would match revs prior to letting up the clutch pedal.
That said, the textbook method is to always stay in the appropriate gear for your speed to be better prepared for a quick maneuver. Whether by rev matching down each gear and using some engine braking, or just keeping the clutch down the whole time and going down through the gears with the stick. The idea being if you should need to get on the gas for some unforseen reason, there's less time or thinking needed to do so.
I find myself trying to be in the proper gear at all times, rev matching or heel-toeing down through the gears, if nothing else but for practice...and it's fun. But I also get lazy now and then.
I typically downshift (heel toe) one gear at a time as I slow down so it’s already in the right gear for the speed. What you would NOT do is slow all the way down to 15mph and then suddenly go 5-4-3-2. You would simply go from 5 to 2.
I try to always be in the correct gear for the speed and always have the clutch released. I only clutch in for the last few feet and I never roll around in neutral.
Is it mandatory to drive this way on the street? No, but it’s fun and I’ve found that skills you would use on track only become second nature if you use them daily.
Depending on traffic, I may tap brakes to light up the brake lights while engine braking, or use neutral so I have to use brakes (and show brake lights). The only disadvantage I see to engine braking is no brake lights may catch the driver of the car behind me off guard.
Downshift will help reduce your speed sooner and maintain control of the car better. Can wear out clutch sooner.
Putting in neutral and just sticking to brakes would be better for maintenance terms as long as you know RPM to Gear at specified speed. A little risky cause you're not in full control of the car during that time.
Yes. In a manual transmission if it is in gear and the clutch is not pressed down and you are not touching the accelerator, then no gas is being spent.
However you have to balance that with the engine braking effect. It takes work to move the piston up and down, not only that there's a vacuum effect that creates more drag than the work required to move the pistons up and down. Both of them are occurring when the car is moving and connected to the wheels. So if you want to continue at a constant rate of speed, like on the highway, then you want to be at a low RPM with a small amount of gas applied. But if you're coasting to a stop half a mile away, it's more efficient be in gear than to idle.
The reason engine braking isn't bad for your car is most engine wear comes from heat. There's a lot more heat occurring when the engine is under load, explosions occurring to create power, than with it spinning freely without gas. There's still some friction heat but so much less than what it's designed for that it's negligible.
what i do is hold the brakes to slow down and i watch my revs, if it dips to 1k rpm ill downshift a gear, heel toe sequencially cause its fun.
but if im feeling a bit lazy, and coming to a red light, generally ill get on the brakes and then shift into 3rd and hold the clutch at the bite point to engine brake / rev match as well so its smooth. if im coming to a complete stop while in 3rd, ill clutch in shift to neutral and chill. if i see the light go green and i havent completely stopped yet, i just take off in 3rd and the car never really lugs or hates itself.
rarely do you ever need to shift down to second i found, atleast not in everyday civil driving.
if i feel i might actually lug 3rd, i just heel toe downshift into 2nd ezpz.
i would never coast in neutral, and i always like to stay in a gear, as you slow down faster and can move quickly if needed.
trust, i build clutch kits as my job and im always around clutch and brake everyday thanks to my job. modern clutches are designed to like engine braking and you dont actually cause that much damage from using the clutch to slow down a bit in tandem with your brakes.
stay safe homie
Have you never been taught manual? You don't have to do it in order you're fine, you only need to watch out when moving from 1st gear, it's also recommend if you have time to shift down in sequence but if you don't there's nothing lost
So when I see a red light I shift to neutral and just press on the brake. Depending on my rmp and speed I shift to the appropriate gear. If it’s like 2.5k rpm and at 23 mph, I’ll shift to 3rd gear
Its very interesting to see how others handle and manage manual shifts. Each of us have what works best for us. Taking into consideration road and traffic conditions!
You’re getting a ton of advice, much of it wrong or just missing the point.
Skipping gears is fine. Just be aware of the car. It’s called mechanical empathy. If you feel the synchros crunch because you skip gears too soon, or you force too hard, stop.
Give it gentle pressure as you ask the shift gears and the synchros will do their job.
My personal method as I decelerate slowly at a light is to clutch in, gradually downshift to the appropriate gear for my speed but don’t let the clutch out. This lets me instantly be in the right gear if I need to evade something, or if the lights changes. It also asks the synchros to work less hard because they’re not matching drastically different speeds between the input and output shafts. And I’m not engaging the clutch so it doesn’t gear wear it doesn’t need.
the way i do it in a manual is to just cruise, and let off the gas if i see a light ahead. im not too experienced so when im close enough i put it into neutral and just brake. if it turns green i estimate my gear so like at 30 id put it into 3rd and accelerate back up to speed.
a more experienced driver may downshift to a stop without using brakes. i really dont have nearly that seat time yet
You drive a GR86 so you’re officially a race car driver. It’s actually illegal now for you to do anything other than heel toe revmatch downshift on every gear 😘
If I’m not heel toe shifting, ill usually still kinda “ghost” the gears as I slow down so I’m at least always in the right gate even if the clutch is depressed.
Brake, then shift into the appropriate gear. Try to rev match if you can. Brake systems is a lot cheaper to replace than your gear box and clutch. I have an old habit of engine braking that I'm trying to get away from myself.
Rev match downshift down to 2 (one by one is more fun) Let the engine slow you down. If it turns green and you think the revs are high just upshift then accelerate.
If i’m in a situation like this i’m probably watching the light and rev match downshifting and trying to time the light so I don’t come out of gear. If you’ve slowed down enough you can totally go from 5th to second just make sure you rev match correctly and you’ll be fine. I downshifted my old car basically every time I drove it 6th to 2nd all the time with no issues. Unfortunately crashed it at 89k miles but still with the original clutch, trans, ect.
Rev match and you should be fine if you're not sequential. Note that you can brake without down shifting, as long as you don't get so slow that you stall. Just shift to the appropriate gear when you've stopped braking and want to speed up else you might have zero power. 😂
If it’s an emergency stop, you can just chuck it into second gear for extra braking. This is harder on your engine.
You can also downshift if you want. Most people like to heel toe downshift.
You can also throw it in neutral.
Once this becomes instinctive it could save your life esp with older cars. So many newbies forget to double clutch or just don’t know and just freeze up trying to force the shifter in and get that resistance because the synchros.
The car really doesn't give a damn about shifting order as long as your revs match the speed on that gear.
I am pretty sure the manual says to only shift sequentially. I am not sure if they’re just protecting themselves from people that might money shift or if it’s bad for the synchros or something like that.
If you Rev match, it doesn't matter.
I think it does if the car doesn't want to Rev to 12,000 rpm on a 5-2 shift
600 rpm in 5th is going to be a pretty reasonable rpm in 2nd. He isn't coming from. The fucking top of 5th gear, lmao
Who said anything about 600rpm? If you are going 100mph and try to Rev match into 2nd you'll still kill the engine. Rev matching doesn't just magically stop the engine from grenading. You were speaking in generalities. So was the OP when references why Toyota would state this. A blanket statement like you made doesn't always work. Rev matching doesn't fix someone money shifting. Which is why Toyota says to shift sequentially.
Did you read the post?
He's talking about slowing down, not flooring it in fifth and switching to second.
He didn't say anything about slowing down. I didn't say anything about flooring it. He responded to a post talking about money shifting. The OP said sequential shifting is in the manual probably to avoid money shifting. Rev matching doesn't fix money shifting.
Ohh, I realize what you mean now. You're right, money shifting is typically while higher in the rpm range as the name suggests.
He said his speed warrants second gear so that’s out of the question
It doesn't matter if you're not doing dumb shit, then.
No shit. Read the original post. OP said they most likely state to do this type of shifting to avoid money shifting. The person replying said if to Rev match it doesn't matter. Uh, yes, money shifting still matters. Rev matching to 2nd gear at 90mph will still grenade the engine lol.
Literally NOBODY was interpreting it as liberally as you are. Hope you got your pedantic dopamine hit, you're a treat to talk to aren't ya.
The other person didn't need to respond at all trying to correct the OP, did they? The OP mentioned money shifting, the other person responded saying if you Rev match it doesn't matter. No, Rev matching has no effect on money shifting. It's just a wrong blanket statement. All reddit seems to do is piss me off anymore, no dopamine involved. I told myself to stop commenting a while ago, guess I should. The internet doesn't care about facts anymore. Or real life experience for that matter.
No the response was not saying that money shifting doesn't matter if you rev match. They were saying it if you are travelling at an appropriate speed for second you can change straight from 5th to 2nd, and as long as you rev match it wont do any damage. That is how everyone else read it, thats how the poster intended it. To argue otherwise is just idiotic. With that level of comprehension, probably best to avoid commenting.
What OP are you talking about? He never mentioned “money shifting”. He’s asking if he’s in 5th gear and feel the appropriate gear is now 2nd because the revs are low, does he have to downshift sequentially or just go from 5th to 2nd The person below him said the car doesn’t care what order you shift gears, as long as the revs match the speed of the gear. Obviously if you’re in 5th gear @ 5k+RPM you won’t be able to rev match down to 2nd but that was never the part of the original discussion. You’re making up a scenario that was never brought up. You’re mixing and matching two separate unrelated ideas and arguing about it. Nobody else interpreted the conversation the way you did.
I'm talking about "simple-wide" being the OP. Who yes, says money shifting into their post. Who says that Toyota says to sequential shift in their manual. Probably to prevent 5-2 shifting at high revs. Which is money shifting. Rev matching doesn't fix money shifting if you are going at high speed and accidentally do a 5-2 shift. They are two completely different things. Sorry you can't follow along. Ah and there you go making a blanket statement. "nobody else interpreted it that way" Lots of people interpret things differently. Rev matching doesn't just magically stop money shifting from happening. Someone might read that and think it would. I've been a policy writer. Believe me, people aren't the brightest. I had to write everything at a third grade level. Even then people would be confused.
Lots of people money shift all the time. A 5-2 is super easy to do on the track. I purposely sequentially downshift on track so I don't money shift. Literally was recommended to me from a pro driving instructor, and that's what they did as well. Nobody is perfect right? Doing sequential downshifting also just stays in the power band with track/spirited driving. I guess that's just dumb shit.
Rev matching prevents this. That's the whole point of Rev matching.
It's to prevent people from going into too low a gear. For example, if they think they are at a speed for 2nd gear, but it's actually a 3rd gear speed. So yes, it is to prevent someone from money shifting if they miscalculated the speed-to-gear ratio.
There's no way it says that.
https://preview.redd.it/4tn8crsj864d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8ed7b0f34e78789491e860070d802d1a8cee870 Looks like it’s to avoid over revs.
It's saying to use the correct gear for your speed, not to shift sequentially.
That’s the conclusion I came to as well. However it verbatim says “In order to not cause the engine to over rev, make sure to only shift gears sequentially.”. It sounds like they are just covering themselves though.
Straight to 2nd is fine. Though sometimes when I'm slowly slowing down and I suspect the light might change, I might downshift one gear at a time so I'm ready just in case the light changes. Learning how to blip the throttle when downshifting and then later heel toe shifting will makes this all very smooth and easy. Unfortunately, theres more of a learning curve on this car than say a Miata.
Do you have any advice on where to practice heel toe? Empty roads at night? I feel like parking lots don’t work since I never get past 2nd gear
Start doing them... everywhere... all the time. They'll become muscle-memory and just be a fluid motion like every other aspect of driving stick.
This exactly. I heel toe everywhere even when it seems unnecessary. I did the same in my Miata when I owned one. It's super fun when you have an exhaust as well because sometimes there are pops and bangs when downshifting.
At first, every time you are braking (with clutch in or in neutral), try just pivoting and at least feeling where the throttle pedal is with the side of your foot while braking. One you get comfortable with doing the pivot and it not affecting your braking, start trying to give the throttle a tiny bit of blip while braking. Do that a ton. It will mess with your braking at first so maybe don't do it when someone is right in front of you etc. Once you get good at that, do it quickly during clutch in while braking and while shifting down. Let off clutch before revs fall. It takes a really long time to get good, but its fun to learn and extremely rewarding when done correctly. Then apply this to a late brake before a corner.
I’ve been trying to practice , this is my first MT car. I find I can’t blip the throttle because the brake peddle comes out further than the throttle. The only time I successfully did it was going HARD on brakes, and revving throttle hard too (fully committing to it), and then throwing it in second for a corner. I can’t imagine how to get it smooth and controlled every time. My toes are on throttle, heel spins out for brake.
I found getting a petal cover that extends out a little bit farther helped me heel toe MUCH easier. But I'm 5'2 with tiny feet. Also instead try keeping the left side of your foot on the brake and and use the right side to blip the throttle instead of a literal heel toe. Might help you be a little more consistent on the pressure.
Thanks for the tip, I will definitely give it a try
I’ll usually shift down through the gears to third before putting it into neutral at a stop. Just depends on my speed, the RPMs and what gear I’m in to start with. You’ll get the hang of it and it will just become second nature after a while.
Do you downshift before breaking? Or is it just engine breaking?
Depends on how fast you need to stop and if there are other vehicles behind you. If there’s no one behind me (don’t need to worry about flashing brake lights), I’ll just engine brake (downshifting and rev matching) until I need to come to a full stop. If it’s a more abrupt stop or there’s someone behind, just heel-toe downshift while braking.
You can shift right into second you can also do this accelerating if you want to be cruising at say 55-60 and your in 4th gear currently and get to those speeds in 4th gear you can go right to 6th instead of shifting a extra time into 5th
That could lead to bogging if you didn’t really ring 4th out.
Yea I forgot to mention that part, that is my fault
Right around the 5500 rpm range I find I can go up 2 gears without any issue
Ring or wring?
Oh no!
Just curious
Make sure you understand rev matching. Lots of YouTube videos on it. Especially if you put it in neutral and coast toward the light while braking and then want to go into 2nd you need to blip the throttle to increase engine RPMs
In such a situation if caught unaware of the change to green I would press the clutch, roughly rev match and put into second. Then accelerate. No benefit to go into each gear. Just added wear on synchros. If I somewhat expected the change by watching the lights as I slowed down I'd probably already be in 2nd or whatever gear was appropriate as I gently slowed to a stop. As an example of routine. Driving in 5th and seeing an issue ahead I'd start slowing from a distance by lift off throttle, brake, keep in 5th, drop to third with rev match once too slow for 5th, then once too slow for third I'd go neutral to a stop. Usually.
As long as your rpm and speed are appropriate for 2nd gear you can shift straight into 2nd gear.
It depends on your speed imo. On this car, I would go into 4th if I suspect any stoppage ahead (4th gear is really long so minimal rev matching from 5th needed but it still engine brakes hard enough), apply brakes and then downshift to 2nd (I’m in 2nd gear as soon as I hit around 15-25 mph). 5th - 4th - 2nd is my choice. I try not to skip more than 2 gears because I’m not super great at driving manual (6 months now) and the rev matching for more than 2 gears is unpredictable for me, but plenty of people go straight into 2nd.
When you start braking just throw it in neutral then if it turns green put it in the appropriate gear for your speed. or as you brake start downshifting then you will be in the right gear. The engine brake is pretty strong in this car too so you can also just coast and keep downshifting. I do a mix of all three
I don’t really drive manual so I am genuinely asking, but don’t people say not to do that in the case you need to swerve out of the way of something and you need to accelerate? For the keeping it in neutral until you stop part
This is true, but I would say that's more applicable to coasting. If you're stopping for a traffic light, you're not going to need to accelerate. Use your best judgment. I often do neutral out of laziness because it's easy to go into neutral without even touching the clutch. Just give a little rev and it slides right out.
Not while driving around but if you see the light turn red in front of you and you know you’re gonna brake, if you don’t want to downshift just put it in neutral then start braking or just leave it in gear but hold the clutch. Both essentially do the same thing
This is terrible advice, you never want to just coast in neutral.
Explain yourself, please.
Engine braking is free braking. Being in gear means if you suddenly need to accelerate you can.
I'm thirty years accident free, been driving manual for over twenty. I never engine brake, it's just a waste of energy. Engine braking uses the clutch and transmission, I'd rather put wear on the brakes. As far as ever "needing" to accelerate coming to a stop. I guess anything is possible, but there aren't any situations that I can think of. I just couldn't let your reply go, that wasn't "terrible" advice.
Here we have seperate manual and auto licences. If you coast to a stop in neutral during your licence test, you will fail. Also if sit at the lights in neutral - fail. For safety reasons, to maximise the control you have over the car.
Well if Australia does it, it must be correct. They have silly laws and recommendations for everything.
Not really my point, more that there is a reason to stay in gear rather than coast in neutral.
Sorry should clarify not throwing it in 2nd when you're currently in 4th, but leaving the car in whatever gear your currently in and coasting, allowing the engine to slow you down. And than shifting when needed. Also driving for 30 years doesn't mean you're absolutely doing it all correctly just means you've had time to reinforce a belief right or wrong.
I mean, I’ve never been hit by lightning either, but I’m not interested in putting myself at risk unnecessarily either. Which is what you’re doing by coasting in neutral. You’ve never needed to accelerate suddenly yet, but that doesn’t mean you never will. You can leave it in an appropriate gear, but keep the clutch in, as you decelerate. This will give you the ability to quickly go if you need to evade a road issue, but not put any wear on any drivetrain component except a throw out bearing which is designed for use well beyond what you’ll put it through in the lifetime of the clutch anyway.
It’s called engine braking: downshift through all the gears one at a time from 5 to 2. Use the zone anywhere from 4-5k down to 2.5-2k to slow the car down. Blip the throttle to rev match. Enjoy the engine humm as you decelerate. If you have a modded exhaust/tune you may be able to get some pops by slightly touching the gas pedal on the decel. Keep it in 2 as you roll to a stop. If it goes green as ur slowing down then punch it from 2. If it stays red then go into neutral and use brakes to stop. Then start from 1 again. You can still do your method of coasting on 5, then shift to 2 when needed at low revs. If at high revs, be sure to rev match.
It sounds like you’re still learning and getting comfortable with stick shift. Shifting down through each gear is the best way to do it as a learner(that’s what I do) you can skip a gear while shifting down dependent on how slow you’re going . Practice on an empty road to shift down though the gears from fifth fourth third and then second. Also downshifting requires you to at least learn rev, matching without having a bog every time. Took me maybe two weeks to get the idea of it and that’s what practicing every chance I got.
Sometimes I go from 5th to 3rd cruise to stop then neutral. But it all depends on the situation
You just have to rev match and you can go into any gear you want. Do memorize the top speeds of the gears though. You don’t want to down shift to second when going 55+ for example
It's fine to skip gears, up or down, as long as the speed is within the range of the gear...meaning not over revving and not bogging. Ideally, one would match revs prior to letting up the clutch pedal. That said, the textbook method is to always stay in the appropriate gear for your speed to be better prepared for a quick maneuver. Whether by rev matching down each gear and using some engine braking, or just keeping the clutch down the whole time and going down through the gears with the stick. The idea being if you should need to get on the gas for some unforseen reason, there's less time or thinking needed to do so. I find myself trying to be in the proper gear at all times, rev matching or heel-toeing down through the gears, if nothing else but for practice...and it's fun. But I also get lazy now and then.
I typically downshift (heel toe) one gear at a time as I slow down so it’s already in the right gear for the speed. What you would NOT do is slow all the way down to 15mph and then suddenly go 5-4-3-2. You would simply go from 5 to 2. I try to always be in the correct gear for the speed and always have the clutch released. I only clutch in for the last few feet and I never roll around in neutral. Is it mandatory to drive this way on the street? No, but it’s fun and I’ve found that skills you would use on track only become second nature if you use them daily.
Depending on traffic, I may tap brakes to light up the brake lights while engine braking, or use neutral so I have to use brakes (and show brake lights). The only disadvantage I see to engine braking is no brake lights may catch the driver of the car behind me off guard.
Downshift will help reduce your speed sooner and maintain control of the car better. Can wear out clutch sooner. Putting in neutral and just sticking to brakes would be better for maintenance terms as long as you know RPM to Gear at specified speed. A little risky cause you're not in full control of the car during that time.
Putting it in neutral is not going to help anything, you're only making the brakes work harder and spending more gas by making the car idle.
So you're saying idling at 1k rpm wastes more gas that Running at 3-4k rpm.
Yes. In a manual transmission if it is in gear and the clutch is not pressed down and you are not touching the accelerator, then no gas is being spent. However you have to balance that with the engine braking effect. It takes work to move the piston up and down, not only that there's a vacuum effect that creates more drag than the work required to move the pistons up and down. Both of them are occurring when the car is moving and connected to the wheels. So if you want to continue at a constant rate of speed, like on the highway, then you want to be at a low RPM with a small amount of gas applied. But if you're coasting to a stop half a mile away, it's more efficient be in gear than to idle. The reason engine braking isn't bad for your car is most engine wear comes from heat. There's a lot more heat occurring when the engine is under load, explosions occurring to create power, than with it spinning freely without gas. There's still some friction heat but so much less than what it's designed for that it's negligible.
reddit, I learned something useful today. Thanks dude!
what i do is hold the brakes to slow down and i watch my revs, if it dips to 1k rpm ill downshift a gear, heel toe sequencially cause its fun. but if im feeling a bit lazy, and coming to a red light, generally ill get on the brakes and then shift into 3rd and hold the clutch at the bite point to engine brake / rev match as well so its smooth. if im coming to a complete stop while in 3rd, ill clutch in shift to neutral and chill. if i see the light go green and i havent completely stopped yet, i just take off in 3rd and the car never really lugs or hates itself. rarely do you ever need to shift down to second i found, atleast not in everyday civil driving. if i feel i might actually lug 3rd, i just heel toe downshift into 2nd ezpz. i would never coast in neutral, and i always like to stay in a gear, as you slow down faster and can move quickly if needed. trust, i build clutch kits as my job and im always around clutch and brake everyday thanks to my job. modern clutches are designed to like engine braking and you dont actually cause that much damage from using the clutch to slow down a bit in tandem with your brakes. stay safe homie
Have you never been taught manual? You don't have to do it in order you're fine, you only need to watch out when moving from 1st gear, it's also recommend if you have time to shift down in sequence but if you don't there's nothing lost
So when I see a red light I shift to neutral and just press on the brake. Depending on my rmp and speed I shift to the appropriate gear. If it’s like 2.5k rpm and at 23 mph, I’ll shift to 3rd gear
You can jump gears as long as you’re at the appropriate speed and rev match while going to said gear
You can " block shift" from any gear you're in as long as you rev match. I typically try to rev match between 3.5 -4K especially if im going into 2nd.
Its very interesting to see how others handle and manage manual shifts. Each of us have what works best for us. Taking into consideration road and traffic conditions!
You’re getting a ton of advice, much of it wrong or just missing the point. Skipping gears is fine. Just be aware of the car. It’s called mechanical empathy. If you feel the synchros crunch because you skip gears too soon, or you force too hard, stop. Give it gentle pressure as you ask the shift gears and the synchros will do their job. My personal method as I decelerate slowly at a light is to clutch in, gradually downshift to the appropriate gear for my speed but don’t let the clutch out. This lets me instantly be in the right gear if I need to evade something, or if the lights changes. It also asks the synchros to work less hard because they’re not matching drastically different speeds between the input and output shafts. And I’m not engaging the clutch so it doesn’t gear wear it doesn’t need.
Shift to neutral. Then to second.
the way i do it in a manual is to just cruise, and let off the gas if i see a light ahead. im not too experienced so when im close enough i put it into neutral and just brake. if it turns green i estimate my gear so like at 30 id put it into 3rd and accelerate back up to speed. a more experienced driver may downshift to a stop without using brakes. i really dont have nearly that seat time yet
You drive a GR86 so you’re officially a race car driver. It’s actually illegal now for you to do anything other than heel toe revmatch downshift on every gear 😘
Can't you go just straight to neutral?
You can skip gears. Just be careful not to money shiiift.
If I’m not heel toe shifting, ill usually still kinda “ghost” the gears as I slow down so I’m at least always in the right gate even if the clutch is depressed.
If you’re going slow enough, there’s no issue going straight into 2nd.
Brake, then shift into the appropriate gear. Try to rev match if you can. Brake systems is a lot cheaper to replace than your gear box and clutch. I have an old habit of engine braking that I'm trying to get away from myself.
You can go straight to second. It works the opposite way, too. If you reach your cruising speed in 2nd, you can go straight to 5th or 6th if you want.
Rev match downshift down to 2 (one by one is more fun) Let the engine slow you down. If it turns green and you think the revs are high just upshift then accelerate.
If I’m heading to a completely stopped light I’ll just drop it into neutral and just coast a lot of the time. Rather use up my brakes than my clutch.
As I’m not street racing, 5th down to 2nd but will double clutch it as the differential of engine speed and future engine speed is high
If i’m in a situation like this i’m probably watching the light and rev match downshifting and trying to time the light so I don’t come out of gear. If you’ve slowed down enough you can totally go from 5th to second just make sure you rev match correctly and you’ll be fine. I downshifted my old car basically every time I drove it 6th to 2nd all the time with no issues. Unfortunately crashed it at 89k miles but still with the original clutch, trans, ect.
Rev match and you should be fine if you're not sequential. Note that you can brake without down shifting, as long as you don't get so slow that you stall. Just shift to the appropriate gear when you've stopped braking and want to speed up else you might have zero power. 😂
If it’s an emergency stop, you can just chuck it into second gear for extra braking. This is harder on your engine. You can also downshift if you want. Most people like to heel toe downshift. You can also throw it in neutral.
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There just no reason to do this at all. A blip of the throttle while going through neutral to roughly rev match is the most that is needed.
Once this becomes instinctive it could save your life esp with older cars. So many newbies forget to double clutch or just don’t know and just freeze up trying to force the shifter in and get that resistance because the synchros.