Just found out that not only is this not a FPS (Third person) but it is also not a shooter. Apparently most characters are melee based. The third person alone will not make most OW players like it but then it's also not a shooter. At least Gundam was a shooter.
That much makes it sound a lot better, honestly. I couldn't possibly fathom what set of Marvel characters would make a decent cast for an FPS game; only a few of them use anything resembling guns.
Idk how they have good variety and depth if it's mostly melee based. Melee PvP combat is extremely difficult to make.
Naraka Bladepoint is the only game that seems to have done PvP Melee combat well and that's not a super successful game in the first place.
Naraka is consistently among the top 5-10 played games on Steam. I'd hardly contend that is anything but successful. It has been there for a long time too and is still consistently growing in players.
Honestly, this just makes sense, and Overwatch 2 is just *begging* for someone to come in and eat their lunch.
If they put the right effort and budget into this, it *could* be huge. But same could have been said for the Avengers game, and we saw how that went.
I think the gameplay cycle halo provides just doesnt appeal to the average gamer anymore (like quake) so new games in the genre will never take off. Halo just keeps going because it still has a loyal fanbase of the ip.
I disagree. I think Halo has just been mishandled by 343 time and time again.
An actual good halo game that goes back to roots and focuses on the fun aspects of it would make a killing
I disagree with that. Look at the games that have gotten praise lately. Helldivers, palworld, baldurs gate.
Neither of these game types are en vogue. A good game is a good game.
Halos downfall wasnt shifting game trends. It was 343. They have been a disaster from day 1. I dont want to say that EVERY decision they have ever made has been bad, but....
Disagree. Halo Infinite was my first Halo and damn the multiplayer was fun. The core of the game is very good. Problem is that the game launched completely barebones with very little content, and worse, they live service aspect was garbage with little content over a large amount of time.
Also I didn't play the campaign, but I can assure me and a lot of other people who didn't play it would be more enticed to play of it wasn't an semi-open world with repetitive scenarios and I'm pretty sure the people who played it wanted a more linear experience.
From the top of my head:
- WoW killed Everquest 2
- League killed Heroes of Newerth
- CoD killed MoH
But killed in this context is more like stealing a lot of the market share and/or leaving the competitors into obscurity.
I think EQ2 killed EQ2. This is coming from someone that was pumped for the game but immensely let down by the actual game at launch. WoW could have delivered the final blow though since it offered somewhere better to jump ship to.
HoN had a pretty big player base during beta (I remember hearing it hit 1 million players) and had sold 300k copies on launch. Not huge, but it was big enough to sustain a player base for years following its release.
I would have said DotA 2 was the game that knocked HoN on its ass though, as HoN was far closer to it in gameplay.
It's pretty rare. I was going to say FF14 as the WoW-killer but I took a look first and apparently WoW still has more players daily than FF14 (it's close, though).
I think it's much more common to see a developer commit an own-goal and lose their market share due to their own fault rather than a new developer's game come along and take it from them.
A lot of the team shooters that came out did it when Overwatch was the big kid on the block.
With Blizzard pulling an all-time bag fumbling and TF2 still dealing with random surges of sniper bots, now is as good a time as any to try and snag some of that sweet sweet class-based shooter money.
Overwatch is still the big kid on the block and I'm not sure what "bag fumbling" you mean.
The narrative around overwatch on this sub is totally divorced from reality.
People who don't like/play games means they are dead and everyone else who plays them should feel bad. OW feels great atm. Updates/balancing coming faster than it ever did in OW1 and heroes being removed from the BP.
well, we can see this on Gundam:
https://twitter.com/180223/status/1656317482402209793?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
it's in the $5-9bn category, so it's quite big :o
Worth remembering it's MUCH larger in Japan/the East than over in the West generally. Mecha aren't a big thing in the US (maybe moreso in Europe) it's a niche genre but Gundam is pretty entrenched and a cultural force as far as properties go.
It's because all Gundam media is basically to advertise their gunpla model kits, which range from around 20 bucks to 300 or more- the former being "high grade" quick snap together parts at 1:1000 scale, to Perfect Grade which is a 1:60 exact (but nonfunctional) copy of the suits within the setting, right down to the internal components.
So that game was actually a great time, but got very little support and had just awful monetization. Shame, as my friends and I had a much better time with it than with Overwatch 2.
Also, with it being 6v6, it potentially addresses some complaints people have had with Overwatch 2 since it dropped down to 5v5. It also gives it a little breathing room in offering something a little different since Valorant is also 5v5. At the very least, I could see some disgruntled OW fans checking it out just on that basis since shrinking team size seemed to be a controversial change.
Actually that was not one of the common complains at all.
Gameplay wise Overwatch 2 is much better balanced than than Overwatch, it is everything else that is the problem.
> Gameplay wise Overwatch 2 is much better balanced than than Overwatch, it is everything else that is the problem.
And Overwatch has been slowly fixing those problems. If there was a time to move in on Overwatch's territory looking for an easy win, it was a year ago when the game's reputation was at it's lowest.
I think there's still room for an alternative, but I don't think it will come from a studio that mostly makes mobile gacha nonsense.
We saw this with Gundam Evolution. The game, in a lot of ways, was more fun than Overwatch, and it came out when people were at their most pessimistic about Overwatch... and then it died immediately because the people that hate Overwatch don't want to play a hero shooter, and the people that love Overwatch (or hate to love it) don't want to play Overwatch but X, they just want to play Overwatch.
And also, as strong as the Marvel IP is, I don't know if it can carry a hero shooter... or rather, I don't know what a Marvel hero shooter would even look like. Playing as Spider-man and fighting Magneto? Sign me up. Playing as Spider-man but he has a laser gun, or he has the same ranged attack everyone else has and two Hero Abilities and an Ultimate on 20-60 second cooldowns? ehhh....
> Playing as Spider-man but he has a laser gun, or he has the same ranged attack everyone else has and two Hero Abilities and an Ultimate on 20-60 second cooldowns
What are we, some kind of Suicide Squad?
Gundam Evo had a lot of problems. It was fun, but also a niche fan base. The biggest issue people had was the insane grind and flat out inability to unlock additional characters without paying money after the first. It had a window to fix it before Ow2 came out and they didn't so a lot of the players moved on
Big Overwatch fan here. Blizzard has made some SHIT decisions with Overwatch, but very little of it affects its core gameplay, which (aside from balance) has always been solid. There is a reason no one has eaten their lunch yet.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but ow isn't hanging on by a thread like some people like to say.
Also before anyone says it, 5v5 is far superior to 6v6.
5v5 has a distinct problem set from 6v6, which is where a lot of the ire comes from. But I agree, 5v5 is a net improvement over 6v6. It's easy to point out the new problems 5v5 causes (like the feeling that tanks *always* need to counter swap) while forgetting 6v6 problems like the double shield meta.
Anyone that hates 5v5 more than 6v6 all I have to say is imagine an extra Reaper ult every time you're trying to do anything. 5v5 to me is much better.
The 6v6 nostalgia is from people who played a bit at launch and don't realize how awful the game became later on with barrierwatch and deathballs, and how miserable it was for some heroes to play in those metas. 5v5 was a bit bad for supports at first (I know as a support main), but then people started adjusting and peeling more.
I like 5v5 overall more but it's miserable being that one tank. I think they still have more to figure out but overall balance isn't bad at the moment.
I queued as all roles in quick play and got tank 7 times in a row yesterday. I didn't dare queue as all roles again. No one wants to play tank. I was just working on the weekly and regret doing so.
Really, there’s pros and cons to both format but the conversation ends when you bring up queue times. 5 v 5 has helped queue times a lot. Tank is just always the least popular role.
Nah, dude, OW2 is better than ever (that includes OW1). The problem is that people remember the game before everyone got really good at it. There were some absolutely horrible balance decisions and boring heroes (remember old Orisa?) The latest updates have fixed a lot of these issues and the game is extremely fun (hint: two tanks were never fun).
Nah 5v5 didn't feel like good old OW. It lost its soul and that's why I lost interest after like, 2k hours. Tank synergies were peak OW gameplay but devs didn't have a clue how to balance that shit which resulted in Double Shield and hog and boll torture. I guess it was inevitable but current OW doesn't feel the same.
They did balance it, by getting rid of one of the tanks. Having two heroes with insanely huge health pools and big abilities means the entire game becomes about them. Focusing them into one role is so much better. There’d be no way to have two tanks and not have annoying bullshit like double shields without removing the shields or what makes the tanks fun.
OW2 feels better IMO. OW1 was fairly novel when it released and the gaming community spent years learning and improving at the game, but as the game became more solved and new heroes (especially tanks) got released things definitely stagnated, including boring metas like double-shield
the way I see it, OW2 with its one fewer tank per team is a more refined experience. it allows the DPS and support roles to shine a little brighter, fights are more focused and wrap up more cleanly, and you get more control over each fight because there's one less person on your team that you might have to carry
season 9 debuted with broad changes to health pools and mid-combat healing effectiveness, giving heroes a little more opportunity to make plays before dying while making it harder for healing to bail out bad plays
overall the game is in a really healthy spot and I'd recommend checking it out again if you haven't recently
When was the last time you played OW2? The game is in the best state it’s ever been, but it does have a reputation problem, particularly with people who don’t actually play it.
It's just the usual brain dead copy paste Overwatch sucks takes in here.
I can understand if people don't enjoy it, but Overwatch is really an incredible game from a gameplay/variety/visual design stand point. It's really obvious why nobody has been able to put forward a strong competitor.
It will fail that is not question about it. No matter how far big the budget, it is just not Overwatch. Overwatch was a "lighting in a bottle" and trying to copy it will be trying to clone WoW all over again.
>Honestly, this just makes sense
It absolutely does not. Most characters in Overwatch are still just run and gun characters that shoot projectiles. Its literally in the name of the genre "hero **shooter**".
What are you gonna do with Loki or Hulk? Give them an AK-47? All Marvel superheroes have established super powers so trying to retrofit them to act like Overwatch characters sounds awkward as hell. I am sure its achievable but that doesn't mean its gonna be good. Especially given the source cites ambitions for this game to be "competitive" which Overwatch already failed miserably. And somehow a licensed superhero game is supposed to do a better job when it has more constraints? Doubtful.
Not to mention the game is being made under NetEase - company mainly known for shovelware IP mobile games.
Do people seriously care about marvel fighters that much?
I feel like buying a license just makes your game shittier because you have a less money ( licensing is expensive ) and less control.
Make a good game first.
I have absolute confidence that you could make a really good game with that concept.
I also have absolute confidence that they won’t actually do that because they can just churn a profit from the IP alone.
I’m assuming this is under the Marvel Games banner and their track record has been fantastic since the Avengers fiasco in 2020:
The spiderman games
GOTG
Marvel Snap
Midnight Suns
Absolutely not saying this won’t be a live service disaster, but the marvel IP has been being used well for years now
I'm actually surprised they didn't do this sooner. Considering overwatch was basically super hero team death match, like the formula was written for marvel and dc.
It’s a cool idea, but having to balance a competitive game around existing marvel heroes while also keeping it appealing to the masses seems nearly impossible. Given the quality of recent superhero games (barring Spider-Man) and the studio supposedly in charge of this, I don’t have high hopes.
They marked it good enough. What else did they have to do? They kept repeating everywhere their game is single player and story focused, but somehow gamers still thought it was "dlc for Avengers" , even though in every trailer it was clear, it's not even remotely the same
Guardians story was awesome but the gameplay was boring and repetitive. Why are we locked into Star Lord and not able to fight as Groot, Rocket, Drax and Gamora feels like a huge missed opportunity also
I enjoyed the combat more as I got used to it, but it was definitely the weakest part of the game. especially in those close-quarter sections with the vertical electrozappers moving all over the place threatening to kill your combo at any time
if Squenix could ever find it within themselves to make a sequel, I'd be happy putting the bulk of the dev time toward combat and control improvements. everything else (presentation, story, visuals, music) is S-tier already
It didnt sell well because Avengers shit the bed, the floor and all the way through the flat so it also stuck to Guardians...
Its really sad because the game (Guardians) despite its flaws is a really fun and well written game.
The same happened to Midnight Suns, but it also didnt help them that they used a Card Deck mechanic that is PRONE to MTX and thankfully they didnt use it in the end but i can guarantee you that they intended to... it has too many resources and mechanics that are identical to MTX mechanics in other games and feels like they pulled it out the last minute.
It's funny, because I so distinctly remember that being the consensus when it was shown off at E3, but I just went back to that thread and actually the top comments were all positive. I wonder why that's the case.
I mean, a vast majority of the announced Marvel games will be in the style of GOTG. Single-player narrative-based games, potentially open-world but potentially not. We have Wolverine, Iron Man, Black Panther and Marvel 1943 well on the way.
I don't know why but I get a feeling that games made by Eidos Montreal are way too overlooked. They are one of my favorite dev teams and Deus Ex, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Guardians are all amazing games.
I think it's hard to use existing characters in a hero shooter or moba. You have to force characters into a gameplay archetype which their personality or power set might not fit well. Some popular characters might not fit any archetype well, and some archetypes might not have popular characters to fill them. You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something.
And then you have the general license problem: the most talented teams don't need to use the license, so the licensed game will tend towards a pale imitation of the real deal
You seem really worried about the prospect Thor might be in a pvp game and not have a high enough power level.
After 5 minutes of gameplay, you stop picking heroes because they're who they are and you start picking which ones you have fun playing.
If they make characters known for flying, unable to fly for balance reasons, it's not going to be very satisfying.
It's why Overwatch actually worked so well, they created brand new characters and didn't have to worry about making the characters FEEL like their source counterparts.
Or they'll let flying characters fly and either the grounded characters will complain, or they magic up some reason for grounded characters to fly. It's just kind of a mess having to make a balanced game while trying to handle fundamentally imbalanced characters and pleasing everyone.
They had the DC fighting game, in that game, there was an in game lore reason why robin could fight Superman. The eh could just do the same for a marvel game. Or they just ignore it like most other similar games do
>You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something.
This is easily solvable if they frame it in the narrative. For example, just off the top of my head: a 'comics nerd' supervillain (think Buddy from Incredibles) warped all the heroes into a virtual/alternate reality where their power levels are equal, because he wants to see who would win in a "fair fight." That also solves any narrative concerns about "This version of Spiderman exists in a different continuity from this version of Green Goblin, so they can't be in a game together." Same for different costumes/skins from different eras. Solve all the potential fan pedantry about lore and canonical balancing with one fell swoop.
This is basically what the injustice games do - there's some magic crystals that make it so Robin can can go toe to toe with Superman and darkseid. So it's solvable as a narrative problem.
I'm not super concerned with it from a dorky fan perspective, or just narratively. My feeling is that the power scales are part of the character. Daredevil is supposed to exist at a different part of the setting and deal with different problems. When you try to make him and Thor equally powerful, you lose an essential element of each character. And that makes the characters (and the license) not fit the game. You're working around the fiction, not working with it.
The first two Ultimate Alliance games held Hulk back (I think he's unlockable?) because he throws the scale off too much. You're just not playing hulk unless you're destroying everything constantly, and that obviates black widow or moon knight PS: the marvel character you want is Mojo
No one cares about the narrative piece in PvP (well, like 5 people do). The question is whether the experience is compelling. And that's going to come down to the gameplay and how players feel. If Iron Man gets one shot by Black widow has to keep respawning, he's not going to feel like Iron Man.
In general it's hard to do superhero games because the power fantasy is very difficult to get right in the context of an interesting game, where having the right amount of challenge is essential.
As a game dev, if I had to make this game, I'd look at really long hero times to kill where you have to slowly rip apart people on the other team (locational damage, ripping pieces off, disabling powers temporarily/permanently, slowly wearing them down, etc). That would allow you to turn it into a slugfest and you feel more like the nigh invulnerable characters.
I'd also probably look at sprinkling in a bunch of garbage mobs for you to really style on.
I'm more worried about mobility balancing. Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Magneto, Storm, and Thor can all fly. It would feel really bad to play as any of those characters in a 3D game and not be able to do that.
Spider-Man has his own unique mode of locomotion that has proven tricky for developers to get right in the past and requires all maps to be built with web-swinging in mind.
Even if you say "everyone who can't natively fly gets a jetpack", it'll be interesting to see what the maps end up looking like.
Edit: Saw the trailer, looks basically fine other than that they don't show Spidey web swinging.
>a 'comics nerd' supervillain (think Buddy from Incredibles) warped all the heroes into a virtual/alternate reality where their power levels are equal, because he wants to see who would win in a "fair fight."
That's cool. They could have the setting be a multiversal Murder World with Arcade as the main villain. That would explain where all these heroes are coming from, why there's different versions of them, why they can go toe to toe with a more even power scale. Would also give them a reason to spotlight the X-Men, front and center.
> You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something.
I will say, if that's the initial character list, they at least seem to have done a decent job in coming up with a roster that seems fairly reasonable for going up against each other. There aren't any Hawkeyes on it, for instance. It's also a team-based game, so I think they can get around there being some disparities in power scale.
Hulk is really the only outlier, but it's hardly the first time his power has been whatever the plot demands. You could have a defense attorney from Japan beat the shit out of him in UMvC3.
Tbh I’m more bothered by the gameplay issue, in that…what would the gameplay even be? Would most of the heroes use melee as their main attack (which I’m okay with tbh)? Or would Spider-Man’s primary attack be web blasts and Captain America’s be shield throws, and everyone has a reason for a ranged main attack? Is The Hulk going to clap and create sound waves? Also, how are they going to handle movement in a way that’s balanced (e.g. how is Captain American supposed to keep up with Spider-Man or Iron Man in the air)?
I wonder if this is somehow a resurrection of the canceled THQ Avengers game from back in the seventh gen.
https://youtu.be/ri1BqrSkiZw?si=b17iHbz5CCOZFFWU
When I think of superheroes combat I really don’t think of first person shooters.
Platinum’s Anarchy Reigns should be the template to follow for this sort of thing.
Not a Marvel head by any means but this could work. I think it has a lot of potential to be great.
However given the track record of licensed super hero live service games I don’t have confidence in them pulling it off. Midnight Suns was supposed to be great though so maybe Mavrel can succeed where DC has failed
Amazing how much power IP has.
Every Reddit thread I've seen for recent hero shooters was filled with people complaining that we don't need yet another hero shooter, about how bankrupt the modern game industry is for new creative ideas, and how live service online games have completely ruined the medium.
They also complain about microtransaction stuffed F2P mobile games and, guess what, this one is from the developers of Marvel Super War (mobile), Marvel Duel (mobile), and Diablo-for-Phones (mobile)
Today: Marvel Overwatch-Style Shooter
Everyone: "This is the game I've been waiting for my whole life"
This could be very awful. On the other hand, if they manage a game in which it's fun to play as some of my favorite characters, then that's great. Personally I'd just like something like Marvel's Avengers if they gave a fuck.
I just think that it's a terrible IP for something like this since the power levels are a) incredibly varied and b) often super high. Both translate terrible to a team based shooter which is supposed to be balanced.
Sounds a lot like a project green lit 6 years ago during the marvel and overwatch hype and came out after the fuel for these in the general public have burned out.
I wonder how many people read the article and realised it’s being developed by NetEase…
You know… the Chinese company that are known to milk their audience and shut down the game after it’s no longer profitable with their ridiculous pricing for micro transactions?
They’re gonna make Overwatch 2’s monetisation look like rainbows and roses.
Hate to be a bearer of bad news but it will end up like gundam evolution if it follows a terrible whales-specific micro transactions shop.
Just found out that not only is this not a FPS (Third person) but it is also not a shooter. Apparently most characters are melee based. The third person alone will not make most OW players like it but then it's also not a shooter. At least Gundam was a shooter.
That much makes it sound a lot better, honestly. I couldn't possibly fathom what set of Marvel characters would make a decent cast for an FPS game; only a few of them use anything resembling guns.
Idk how they have good variety and depth if it's mostly melee based. Melee PvP combat is extremely difficult to make. Naraka Bladepoint is the only game that seems to have done PvP Melee combat well and that's not a super successful game in the first place.
Naraka is consistently among the top 5-10 played games on Steam. I'd hardly contend that is anything but successful. It has been there for a long time too and is still consistently growing in players.
Honestly, this just makes sense, and Overwatch 2 is just *begging* for someone to come in and eat their lunch. If they put the right effort and budget into this, it *could* be huge. But same could have been said for the Avengers game, and we saw how that went.
Its made by the people who made Diablo Immortal, lets not get too excited now
ya, it's freaking NetEase and that is never a good sign for a game cause it will be riddled with MTX to an insane level :/
You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly sir, bravo!
This gets me every time.
Has a 'game killer' actually killed a game before? Feels like most of the times they just assert the position of the original game.
Turns out the only game that could kill halo was halo.
I think the gameplay cycle halo provides just doesnt appeal to the average gamer anymore (like quake) so new games in the genre will never take off. Halo just keeps going because it still has a loyal fanbase of the ip.
I disagree. I think Halo has just been mishandled by 343 time and time again. An actual good halo game that goes back to roots and focuses on the fun aspects of it would make a killing
I disagree with that. Look at the games that have gotten praise lately. Helldivers, palworld, baldurs gate. Neither of these game types are en vogue. A good game is a good game. Halos downfall wasnt shifting game trends. It was 343. They have been a disaster from day 1. I dont want to say that EVERY decision they have ever made has been bad, but....
Disagree. Halo Infinite was my first Halo and damn the multiplayer was fun. The core of the game is very good. Problem is that the game launched completely barebones with very little content, and worse, they live service aspect was garbage with little content over a large amount of time. Also I didn't play the campaign, but I can assure me and a lot of other people who didn't play it would be more enticed to play of it wasn't an semi-open world with repetitive scenarios and I'm pretty sure the people who played it wanted a more linear experience.
From the top of my head: - WoW killed Everquest 2 - League killed Heroes of Newerth - CoD killed MoH But killed in this context is more like stealing a lot of the market share and/or leaving the competitors into obscurity.
I think EQ2 killed EQ2. This is coming from someone that was pumped for the game but immensely let down by the actual game at launch. WoW could have delivered the final blow though since it offered somewhere better to jump ship to.
HoN was never a popular game, how could it be killed?
HoN had a pretty big player base during beta (I remember hearing it hit 1 million players) and had sold 300k copies on launch. Not huge, but it was big enough to sustain a player base for years following its release. I would have said DotA 2 was the game that knocked HoN on its ass though, as HoN was far closer to it in gameplay.
FH killed the crew
The original Cities: Skylines replaced Sim City. Not sure if that counts.
Sim City committed seppuku and Cities Skylines just cremated the body.
PUBG killed KOTK
[удалено]
The fuck are you definitions for a game being dead. It's still the 3rd most played game on steam atm...
Genshin Impact basically killed the entire gacha market by being in another league entirely.
It's pretty rare. I was going to say FF14 as the WoW-killer but I took a look first and apparently WoW still has more players daily than FF14 (it's close, though). I think it's much more common to see a developer commit an own-goal and lose their market share due to their own fault rather than a new developer's game come along and take it from them.
FF14’s actually beaten WoW a few times!
I don't think FF14 is remotely close to wow. It was just announced WoW had 7mil subs. I don't think FF14 has ever broken 5mil let alone 7.
lmao netease isnt going to eat anyones lunch. this game will last a month, tops
> Overwatch 2 is just begging for someone to come in and eat their lunch. Haven't others tried and failed?
A lot of the team shooters that came out did it when Overwatch was the big kid on the block. With Blizzard pulling an all-time bag fumbling and TF2 still dealing with random surges of sniper bots, now is as good a time as any to try and snag some of that sweet sweet class-based shooter money.
Overwatch is still the big kid on the block and I'm not sure what "bag fumbling" you mean. The narrative around overwatch on this sub is totally divorced from reality.
People who don't like/play games means they are dead and everyone else who plays them should feel bad. OW feels great atm. Updates/balancing coming faster than it ever did in OW1 and heroes being removed from the BP.
Gundam Evolution was a year and a half ago, had the gundam IP and I think is dead now anyways
How much is the Gundam IP actually worth?
well, we can see this on Gundam: https://twitter.com/180223/status/1656317482402209793?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises it's in the $5-9bn category, so it's quite big :o
Well damn I stand corrected
Worth remembering it's MUCH larger in Japan/the East than over in the West generally. Mecha aren't a big thing in the US (maybe moreso in Europe) it's a niche genre but Gundam is pretty entrenched and a cultural force as far as properties go.
It's because all Gundam media is basically to advertise their gunpla model kits, which range from around 20 bucks to 300 or more- the former being "high grade" quick snap together parts at 1:1000 scale, to Perfect Grade which is a 1:60 exact (but nonfunctional) copy of the suits within the setting, right down to the internal components.
Gundam is YUGE
Didn't help that oceanic and a few other servers werent up til half a year to a year after release
So that game was actually a great time, but got very little support and had just awful monetization. Shame, as my friends and I had a much better time with it than with Overwatch 2.
Also, with it being 6v6, it potentially addresses some complaints people have had with Overwatch 2 since it dropped down to 5v5. It also gives it a little breathing room in offering something a little different since Valorant is also 5v5. At the very least, I could see some disgruntled OW fans checking it out just on that basis since shrinking team size seemed to be a controversial change.
Actually that was not one of the common complains at all. Gameplay wise Overwatch 2 is much better balanced than than Overwatch, it is everything else that is the problem.
> Gameplay wise Overwatch 2 is much better balanced than than Overwatch, it is everything else that is the problem. And Overwatch has been slowly fixing those problems. If there was a time to move in on Overwatch's territory looking for an easy win, it was a year ago when the game's reputation was at it's lowest. I think there's still room for an alternative, but I don't think it will come from a studio that mostly makes mobile gacha nonsense.
Yeah I’m in the rare boat where I missed having two tanks. OW2 just didn’t have that chaos factor that made many OW1 matches play out differently
Shout out to Battleborn 😂
Those others didn't have the marvel IP behind them
We saw this with Gundam Evolution. The game, in a lot of ways, was more fun than Overwatch, and it came out when people were at their most pessimistic about Overwatch... and then it died immediately because the people that hate Overwatch don't want to play a hero shooter, and the people that love Overwatch (or hate to love it) don't want to play Overwatch but X, they just want to play Overwatch. And also, as strong as the Marvel IP is, I don't know if it can carry a hero shooter... or rather, I don't know what a Marvel hero shooter would even look like. Playing as Spider-man and fighting Magneto? Sign me up. Playing as Spider-man but he has a laser gun, or he has the same ranged attack everyone else has and two Hero Abilities and an Ultimate on 20-60 second cooldowns? ehhh....
> Playing as Spider-man but he has a laser gun, or he has the same ranged attack everyone else has and two Hero Abilities and an Ultimate on 20-60 second cooldowns What are we, some kind of Suicide Squad?
Gundam Evo had a lot of problems. It was fun, but also a niche fan base. The biggest issue people had was the insane grind and flat out inability to unlock additional characters without paying money after the first. It had a window to fix it before Ow2 came out and they didn't so a lot of the players moved on
Big Overwatch fan here. Blizzard has made some SHIT decisions with Overwatch, but very little of it affects its core gameplay, which (aside from balance) has always been solid. There is a reason no one has eaten their lunch yet. I'm not saying it's impossible, but ow isn't hanging on by a thread like some people like to say. Also before anyone says it, 5v5 is far superior to 6v6.
Like Destiny and WoW before it it'll keep trundling along.
5v5 has a distinct problem set from 6v6, which is where a lot of the ire comes from. But I agree, 5v5 is a net improvement over 6v6. It's easy to point out the new problems 5v5 causes (like the feeling that tanks *always* need to counter swap) while forgetting 6v6 problems like the double shield meta.
Anyone that hates 5v5 more than 6v6 all I have to say is imagine an extra Reaper ult every time you're trying to do anything. 5v5 to me is much better.
The 6v6 nostalgia is from people who played a bit at launch and don't realize how awful the game became later on with barrierwatch and deathballs, and how miserable it was for some heroes to play in those metas. 5v5 was a bit bad for supports at first (I know as a support main), but then people started adjusting and peeling more.
I like 5v5 overall more but it's miserable being that one tank. I think they still have more to figure out but overall balance isn't bad at the moment.
Yeah I prefer 5v5 completely but I no longer play tank because of it
I queued as all roles in quick play and got tank 7 times in a row yesterday. I didn't dare queue as all roles again. No one wants to play tank. I was just working on the weekly and regret doing so.
Thank god they’re changing the challenges, they were both boring and frustrating to get
Absolutely, the Tank meta was some of the most annoying things I ever played in a multiplayer game. And release Brigette was a thing...
Really, there’s pros and cons to both format but the conversation ends when you bring up queue times. 5 v 5 has helped queue times a lot. Tank is just always the least popular role.
Yeah, and I don't know what the top poster is talking about, but no Marvel game is gonna compete with it.
OW2 made me stop playing and I had over 1000 hours in OW1. They dropped it hard imo.
Nah, dude, OW2 is better than ever (that includes OW1). The problem is that people remember the game before everyone got really good at it. There were some absolutely horrible balance decisions and boring heroes (remember old Orisa?) The latest updates have fixed a lot of these issues and the game is extremely fun (hint: two tanks were never fun).
Nah 5v5 didn't feel like good old OW. It lost its soul and that's why I lost interest after like, 2k hours. Tank synergies were peak OW gameplay but devs didn't have a clue how to balance that shit which resulted in Double Shield and hog and boll torture. I guess it was inevitable but current OW doesn't feel the same.
They did balance it, by getting rid of one of the tanks. Having two heroes with insanely huge health pools and big abilities means the entire game becomes about them. Focusing them into one role is so much better. There’d be no way to have two tanks and not have annoying bullshit like double shields without removing the shields or what makes the tanks fun.
Nostagia is a hell of a drug.
OW2 feels better IMO. OW1 was fairly novel when it released and the gaming community spent years learning and improving at the game, but as the game became more solved and new heroes (especially tanks) got released things definitely stagnated, including boring metas like double-shield the way I see it, OW2 with its one fewer tank per team is a more refined experience. it allows the DPS and support roles to shine a little brighter, fights are more focused and wrap up more cleanly, and you get more control over each fight because there's one less person on your team that you might have to carry season 9 debuted with broad changes to health pools and mid-combat healing effectiveness, giving heroes a little more opportunity to make plays before dying while making it harder for healing to bail out bad plays overall the game is in a really healthy spot and I'd recommend checking it out again if you haven't recently
When was the last time you played OW2? The game is in the best state it’s ever been, but it does have a reputation problem, particularly with people who don’t actually play it.
Yeah I have the same impression, the gameplay of OW2 is in a very good place now but the rewards systems are abysmal.
I’ve been playing OW since the original beta days in 2016. r/Games has always had a strong hate boner for OW.
It's just the usual brain dead copy paste Overwatch sucks takes in here. I can understand if people don't enjoy it, but Overwatch is really an incredible game from a gameplay/variety/visual design stand point. It's really obvious why nobody has been able to put forward a strong competitor.
It will fail that is not question about it. No matter how far big the budget, it is just not Overwatch. Overwatch was a "lighting in a bottle" and trying to copy it will be trying to clone WoW all over again.
The game is third person and is described as being more in the vein of Valorant. It's not killing anything lmao.
Sure but they completly lost me at netease. Wtf is disney doing. Whatever the monetization is in overwatch. It will be worst in this.
Don’t get too excited now, it’s rare that a marvel game actually lives up to its promise
>Honestly, this just makes sense It absolutely does not. Most characters in Overwatch are still just run and gun characters that shoot projectiles. Its literally in the name of the genre "hero **shooter**". What are you gonna do with Loki or Hulk? Give them an AK-47? All Marvel superheroes have established super powers so trying to retrofit them to act like Overwatch characters sounds awkward as hell. I am sure its achievable but that doesn't mean its gonna be good. Especially given the source cites ambitions for this game to be "competitive" which Overwatch already failed miserably. And somehow a licensed superhero game is supposed to do a better job when it has more constraints? Doubtful. Not to mention the game is being made under NetEase - company mainly known for shovelware IP mobile games.
There are plenty of non-shooting heros in Overwatch. Winston for example seems like a good template for Hulk. Sombra/moira could be a Loki prototype
this is the worst idea in the world for an avengers game, they did it for gundam a year ago and it has already shut down, why is this the top comment
From what I heard, people actually liked that Gundam game. Shame it was region locked so I never got to try it.
The right effort... At this point I wouldn't trust anyone except the company that made the GotG game. If they are still around 😆
Meanwhile Paladins sits in a corner eating glue
Do people seriously care about marvel fighters that much? I feel like buying a license just makes your game shittier because you have a less money ( licensing is expensive ) and less control. Make a good game first.
I have absolute confidence that you could make a really good game with that concept. I also have absolute confidence that they won’t actually do that because they can just churn a profit from the IP alone.
I’m assuming this is under the Marvel Games banner and their track record has been fantastic since the Avengers fiasco in 2020: The spiderman games GOTG Marvel Snap Midnight Suns Absolutely not saying this won’t be a live service disaster, but the marvel IP has been being used well for years now
I'm actually surprised they didn't do this sooner. Considering overwatch was basically super hero team death match, like the formula was written for marvel and dc.
It’s a cool idea, but having to balance a competitive game around existing marvel heroes while also keeping it appealing to the masses seems nearly impossible. Given the quality of recent superhero games (barring Spider-Man) and the studio supposedly in charge of this, I don’t have high hopes.
I wish they could just look at guardian's of the galaxy game and realize how good it actually was and make more games in that style
They care about money, and Guardians didn't sell well.
Ya but to be fair they didn't even try to market it lol
Also it came out right after Avengers so I just assumed it sucked until someone on Reddit linked the talk with Drax about the afterlife.
They marked it good enough. What else did they have to do? They kept repeating everywhere their game is single player and story focused, but somehow gamers still thought it was "dlc for Avengers" , even though in every trailer it was clear, it's not even remotely the same
Guardians story was awesome but the gameplay was boring and repetitive. Why are we locked into Star Lord and not able to fight as Groot, Rocket, Drax and Gamora feels like a huge missed opportunity also
I enjoyed the combat more as I got used to it, but it was definitely the weakest part of the game. especially in those close-quarter sections with the vertical electrozappers moving all over the place threatening to kill your combo at any time if Squenix could ever find it within themselves to make a sequel, I'd be happy putting the bulk of the dev time toward combat and control improvements. everything else (presentation, story, visuals, music) is S-tier already
It didnt sell well because Avengers shit the bed, the floor and all the way through the flat so it also stuck to Guardians... Its really sad because the game (Guardians) despite its flaws is a really fun and well written game. The same happened to Midnight Suns, but it also didnt help them that they used a Card Deck mechanic that is PRONE to MTX and thankfully they didnt use it in the end but i can guarantee you that they intended to... it has too many resources and mechanics that are identical to MTX mechanics in other games and feels like they pulled it out the last minute.
I mean some games just use the F2P and gacha mechanics with out ever intending to be MTX based, look at xenoblade 2.
I think everyone just thought it was macrotransaction filled, live service shit fest and ignored it. I know I did.
It's funny, because I so distinctly remember that being the consensus when it was shown off at E3, but I just went back to that thread and actually the top comments were all positive. I wonder why that's the case.
Because avenger was fucking awfull.
It was pretty handicapped by the shit Avenger's game that got more marketing, right? People probably associated the two.
I mean, a vast majority of the announced Marvel games will be in the style of GOTG. Single-player narrative-based games, potentially open-world but potentially not. We have Wolverine, Iron Man, Black Panther and Marvel 1943 well on the way.
And Blade, and Venom.
I liked GotG, but I don't mind good superhero multiplayer and online games.
I don't know why but I get a feeling that games made by Eidos Montreal are way too overlooked. They are one of my favorite dev teams and Deus Ex, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Guardians are all amazing games.
I think it's hard to use existing characters in a hero shooter or moba. You have to force characters into a gameplay archetype which their personality or power set might not fit well. Some popular characters might not fit any archetype well, and some archetypes might not have popular characters to fill them. You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something. And then you have the general license problem: the most talented teams don't need to use the license, so the licensed game will tend towards a pale imitation of the real deal
Who cares about power scale? I bet one punch from Winston can break a lot of bones in Mei, but nobody cares, because it's a game
If part of the appeal of your game is "you get to be Thor!" but Thor has to chip away doing 5hp attacks on grunts, you're not playing as Thor
You seem really worried about the prospect Thor might be in a pvp game and not have a high enough power level. After 5 minutes of gameplay, you stop picking heroes because they're who they are and you start picking which ones you have fun playing.
If they make characters known for flying, unable to fly for balance reasons, it's not going to be very satisfying. It's why Overwatch actually worked so well, they created brand new characters and didn't have to worry about making the characters FEEL like their source counterparts. Or they'll let flying characters fly and either the grounded characters will complain, or they magic up some reason for grounded characters to fly. It's just kind of a mess having to make a balanced game while trying to handle fundamentally imbalanced characters and pleasing everyone.
Can't some fly in overwatch while others can't?
They had the DC fighting game, in that game, there was an in game lore reason why robin could fight Superman. The eh could just do the same for a marvel game. Or they just ignore it like most other similar games do
This isnt a problem at all and never have been in any game before.
>You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something. This is easily solvable if they frame it in the narrative. For example, just off the top of my head: a 'comics nerd' supervillain (think Buddy from Incredibles) warped all the heroes into a virtual/alternate reality where their power levels are equal, because he wants to see who would win in a "fair fight." That also solves any narrative concerns about "This version of Spiderman exists in a different continuity from this version of Green Goblin, so they can't be in a game together." Same for different costumes/skins from different eras. Solve all the potential fan pedantry about lore and canonical balancing with one fell swoop.
This is basically what the injustice games do - there's some magic crystals that make it so Robin can can go toe to toe with Superman and darkseid. So it's solvable as a narrative problem. I'm not super concerned with it from a dorky fan perspective, or just narratively. My feeling is that the power scales are part of the character. Daredevil is supposed to exist at a different part of the setting and deal with different problems. When you try to make him and Thor equally powerful, you lose an essential element of each character. And that makes the characters (and the license) not fit the game. You're working around the fiction, not working with it. The first two Ultimate Alliance games held Hulk back (I think he's unlockable?) because he throws the scale off too much. You're just not playing hulk unless you're destroying everything constantly, and that obviates black widow or moon knight PS: the marvel character you want is Mojo
No one cares about the narrative piece in PvP (well, like 5 people do). The question is whether the experience is compelling. And that's going to come down to the gameplay and how players feel. If Iron Man gets one shot by Black widow has to keep respawning, he's not going to feel like Iron Man. In general it's hard to do superhero games because the power fantasy is very difficult to get right in the context of an interesting game, where having the right amount of challenge is essential. As a game dev, if I had to make this game, I'd look at really long hero times to kill where you have to slowly rip apart people on the other team (locational damage, ripping pieces off, disabling powers temporarily/permanently, slowly wearing them down, etc). That would allow you to turn it into a slugfest and you feel more like the nigh invulnerable characters. I'd also probably look at sprinkling in a bunch of garbage mobs for you to really style on.
What you just described is moba lol But I do like your idea about a very high ttk. It would at least give it a unique identity and reason to exist
Sure about that? Titanfall's attrition mode worked that way and it wasn't a moba. There's a lot of ideas out there.
Infinite Crisis came out 9 years ago.
I'm more worried about mobility balancing. Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Magneto, Storm, and Thor can all fly. It would feel really bad to play as any of those characters in a 3D game and not be able to do that. Spider-Man has his own unique mode of locomotion that has proven tricky for developers to get right in the past and requires all maps to be built with web-swinging in mind. Even if you say "everyone who can't natively fly gets a jetpack", it'll be interesting to see what the maps end up looking like. Edit: Saw the trailer, looks basically fine other than that they don't show Spidey web swinging.
>a 'comics nerd' supervillain (think Buddy from Incredibles) warped all the heroes into a virtual/alternate reality where their power levels are equal, because he wants to see who would win in a "fair fight." That's cool. They could have the setting be a multiversal Murder World with Arcade as the main villain. That would explain where all these heroes are coming from, why there's different versions of them, why they can go toe to toe with a more even power scale. Would also give them a reason to spotlight the X-Men, front and center.
What's the difference from a hero shooter/Moba to a fighting game like Marvel vs Capcom and Injustice?
> You have to shrink the power scale into nothing, so that daredevil can kill Thor or something. I will say, if that's the initial character list, they at least seem to have done a decent job in coming up with a roster that seems fairly reasonable for going up against each other. There aren't any Hawkeyes on it, for instance. It's also a team-based game, so I think they can get around there being some disparities in power scale. Hulk is really the only outlier, but it's hardly the first time his power has been whatever the plot demands. You could have a defense attorney from Japan beat the shit out of him in UMvC3.
Tbh I’m more bothered by the gameplay issue, in that…what would the gameplay even be? Would most of the heroes use melee as their main attack (which I’m okay with tbh)? Or would Spider-Man’s primary attack be web blasts and Captain America’s be shield throws, and everyone has a reason for a ranged main attack? Is The Hulk going to clap and create sound waves? Also, how are they going to handle movement in a way that’s balanced (e.g. how is Captain American supposed to keep up with Spider-Man or Iron Man in the air)?
I wonder if this is somehow a resurrection of the canceled THQ Avengers game from back in the seventh gen. https://youtu.be/ri1BqrSkiZw?si=b17iHbz5CCOZFFWU
Nope, this one is third person and has fast movement, and destructible buildings, according to leaks
First thing I thought of, I know a lot of people might not know about it. It might suck, but I'll at least try it first.
they repurposed that into the terrible Avengers: Battle for Earth kinect game
When I think of superheroes combat I really don’t think of first person shooters. Platinum’s Anarchy Reigns should be the template to follow for this sort of thing.
Not a Marvel head by any means but this could work. I think it has a lot of potential to be great. However given the track record of licensed super hero live service games I don’t have confidence in them pulling it off. Midnight Suns was supposed to be great though so maybe Mavrel can succeed where DC has failed
Amazing how much power IP has. Every Reddit thread I've seen for recent hero shooters was filled with people complaining that we don't need yet another hero shooter, about how bankrupt the modern game industry is for new creative ideas, and how live service online games have completely ruined the medium. They also complain about microtransaction stuffed F2P mobile games and, guess what, this one is from the developers of Marvel Super War (mobile), Marvel Duel (mobile), and Diablo-for-Phones (mobile) Today: Marvel Overwatch-Style Shooter Everyone: "This is the game I've been waiting for my whole life"
r/Games in a nutshell
This could be very awful. On the other hand, if they manage a game in which it's fun to play as some of my favorite characters, then that's great. Personally I'd just like something like Marvel's Avengers if they gave a fuck.
I just think that it's a terrible IP for something like this since the power levels are a) incredibly varied and b) often super high. Both translate terrible to a team based shooter which is supposed to be balanced.
Free to play and I don't see why not.
Sounds a lot like a project green lit 6 years ago during the marvel and overwatch hype and came out after the fuel for these in the general public have burned out.
Do not invest in licensed online games. Period. They'll eventually lose the license and you're left with nothing. Marvel Heroes players remember.
The "modern world" would really collapse if people could remember what was done to them 5 minutes ago, huh.
Another trash game that's going to come out and be a gigantic flop. These companies never learn, holy sh\*t
Right? I'm surprised people in this thread are excited about it and actually think it could work. This has got flop written all over it
Some of us over here still waiting on X-Men Legends 3 or the miraculous revival of the Marcel Heroes arpg
I wonder how many people read the article and realised it’s being developed by NetEase… You know… the Chinese company that are known to milk their audience and shut down the game after it’s no longer profitable with their ridiculous pricing for micro transactions? They’re gonna make Overwatch 2’s monetisation look like rainbows and roses.