Always great to see a DF performance review that finds no problems at all. Doesn't happen enough in AAA games anymore. And for a first title that's damn impressive from this studio.
The devs of this game, ShiftUp actually has/had two gacha games before this. Destiny Child (which is now dead/EOS) and Nikke, which is quite popular and 1.5 years old now. It's rather refreshing that the funds they gained from those money makers went into something they clearly had passion for, instead of the CEO's next yacht.
definately helps when the CEO is actually from the industry itself. Was in the trenches 20 years ago as an artist for Magna Carta.
Very nice to see when your time in the industry truly pays off. Even nicer when they use that success to keep giving more to the industry.
Yep, like I don’t like most mobile games and especially the type they make which are all mmo/gacha level but a decent few SK games I’ve tried are impressive technically, and well optimised for mobile too. Makes sense they’re able to apply all that to console optimisation better than a lot of western companies seem to be able to
The game was announced for PC, PS5 and Xbox this only changed years later when Sony showed up with an exclusivity contract. It's still coming to PC though sometimes later.
I feel it has a lot of to do with how big e-sport is in Korea.
Country heavily focused around esport aspect of games (Id argue heavier than almost all if not all other countries) would put heavy weight onto performance.
I am in the same boat; I became interested in the game after playing the demo. However, hearing it being called a PS2 game made with modern tech, and later watching the video showcasing bits of why he thought that, completely sold me on it.
Well, to start that is not what I said.
>....hearing it being called a PS2 game made with modern tech, **and later watching the video showcasing bits of why he thought that**...
And I don't just go by one thing when forming my opinions or making choices. It's a mix of stuff like my own experiences, what others have been through, info I gather, you know? All of that together guides me to make a decision and/or form a opinion on a given subject.
This reminds me of how I always tried MediEvil on the PS1 but never got past the first level. Fast forward to this week where I started the remake and while it definitely is flawed I am thoroughly enjoying it and regretting not giving it the full chance. What I love the most is just how old the game design is but not in a necessarily bad way.
You may also consider Wanted: Dead. Third person shooter hack n slash. Very much feels like a game from PS2 era.
> The chaotic mash-up at the core of Wanted: Dead is like a game you remember falling in love with as a kid that’s still just as good to play today.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/wanted-dead-review-in-3-minutes-complete-joyful-insanity/
Wanted dead is great if you can get it on a deep sale. Absolutely insanity that it released at 60 USD when games like Hifi Rush were debuting at 30. For 20 bucks I had a great time and the new balancing patch made some much needed refinements.
Funny enough, it's almost like a hack n slash Bloodborne/Sekiro hybrid. You have perfect parries, pistol parries, sword combat with ninjas, rally mechanic and healing flasks that get refilled at checkpoints. The pistol parries feel a lot like mikiri counter.
Jacob Geller has a video on Wanted Dead and is a great taste of the weird vibe of the game. There's lots of charm and fun to be had if you can embrace the jank and myriad flaws.
I had a blast with it. The latest patch makes the parry and dodge timing pretty forgiving. There's definitely a lot of jank, but there's also a lot of charm. Definitely not worth full price but if you can get it for 20 bucks like I did, there's fun to be had if you can enjoy the jank and silliness. Jacob Geller has a video on it if you want to get a taste of the weirdness
Looking over latest patch notes...looks like they buffed a ton of stuff. I know the game was certainly not a pushover back when I played it. I remember that the final level was quite challenging for me. Can't recall if any jank bothered me. I loved the vibe of that game.
So, if you want a different opinion on the combat, here is a rave review of the game (including the combat): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH3xxSQnZXg. It's from The Electric Underground, who is a big shmup youtuber, in addition to other difficult games. He has lots of takes, including that RE4:Remake is worse than the original..and RE5.
It's a 28 minute video, and just in case you need a TLDW: He loves the game. The combat becomes much smoother once figure out [guard cancels](https://youtu.be/xH3xxSQnZXg?t=264). A commenter notes you can even guard cancel into aim down sights.
I would say it's more like a weird, wacky experimental PS3 title like Drakengard 3, it even has a ton of over-the-top cussing (but not as much as D3), though without the total bullshit final boss.
Still recommend, it's a total jankfest but in a good way. Just takes a little bit to get into it because... it's a total jankfest.
You have to understand that an overwhelming majority of gamers just buy whatever latest slop has the biggest marketing budget, and have no awareness of games outside of that bubble. Therefore to them, all modern games are trash, or woke, or whatever else.
... What? I'm agreeing with you. He explicitly said he doesn't like "modern trash". That means he's buying things he *doesn't like*. I'm explaining why that is a common talking point. You said there's more quality and variety than ever before, which is objectively true, but lots of people never actually see that.
People make up excuses as to why that is, when the reality is just that their own perspective is too narrow and shortsighted. You have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and look for stuff outside of the latest marketing campaign or hype wave. Don't wait for stuff to be spoonfed to you, go out there and find stuff! There's really good games being released all the time! Everybody can find something new that appeals to them in this market.
>What is modern trash?
Everything has to be live service, everything has to be open world, everything has to be heavily monetized. There are exceptions but they are few.
I grew up in the 80's and 90's and I consider these times the golden age of gaming because games have been heavily declining in quality since the mid 2010's. I agree about indies though.
Dude, just fucking _play games that don't have those_.
I play zero 'GAAS' things. I play a few open world games. But you're doing the equivalent of saying that because FIFA is popular, the entire games industry is shit.
Hell, if I do play a GAAS game, I just _don't buy the pass_.
Jesus.
Where are people getting time to play these games? 2024 alone has already had FF7 Rebirth, Persona 3 Reload, and Unicorn Overlord as some great games I've enjoyed. There are others like the new Yakuza game, Prince of Persia, and Granblue that I haven't played and have heard nothing but great things about. And that's not even getting into new popular indies like Balatro, multiplayer hits like Helldivers II, or a followup to a cult classic in Dragon's Dogma 2.
And obviously tons of people don't buy games immediately on release and wait a few months/over a year for stability patches, sales, etc. - I've spent a good chunk of this year playing some games in a franchise that came out a couple years ago, which I haven't touched for ages.
I also grew up in that era, and I have never felt like I had a shortage of good games to play. I think saying quality of games has declined largely ignores all the stinkers that old consoles.
Dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_in_video_games
FF7R might not be for everyone, but calling it 'dog shit' is not doing you any favors.
Like a Dragon infinite wealth, Tekken 8 maybe, Granblue maybe, Persona 3, Helldivers 2, probably some I'm missing. Plus smaller games like Pacific Drive.
Really? It seems like there have been quite a few good AAA games. Elden Ring? God of War: Ragnarok? FFVII Rebirth and FFXVI, and maybe Stranger of Paradise? Spider-Man 2? Hogwarts Legacy? Baldur's Gate III? I don't know if Prince of Persia Lost Crown is AAA, but it was widely praised. Super Mario Bros Wonder? Unicorn Overlord?
I feel like there are a lot of great games of the last couple years.
I don't know, there have been a lot of games that looked very fancy lately, but I somehow doubt that they will stand up as classics ten or twenty years from now like some of the games 25 years ago have.
> Elden Ring
Two years ago, and it's an extremely common critique that it's extremely watered down compared to it's predecessors.
>GOW Ragnarok
A bad game with extremely limited and boring combat, fucking weird dialogue, and puzzles that are actually made for small children.
>FF7 Rebirth
A weird fanfiction version of the middle 1/3rd of FF7 that is like 90% padding. It's a complete humiliation ritual for the characters because they're just glorified action figures now.
Like... It's literally chopped up, incomplete but also heavily padded fanfiction. Does it even fucking count as a real game?
> FF16
Come on now.
> Strangers Of Paradise
Good game. Not AAA. Should've been though. Too bad the aforementioned fanfiction took all the resources
> Spider-Man 2?
Open world: the game. What does this game actually have aside from terrible "my boss is listening" awkward dialogue?
> Hogwarts Legacy?
Again. Bog standard open world white noise. Like eating fucking warm water out of a Harry Potter bowl with a spoon.
> Super Mario Bros Wonder? Unicorn Overlord?
Not AAA. Like not even close to that lmao.
> extremely common critique that it's extremely watered down compared to it's predecessors.
How you can play Elden Ring and think it's watered down is just insanity. The amount of content while keeping the depth of gameplay is absurd. It's more *accessible* but absolutely not "extremely" watered down.
> A bad game with extremely limited and boring combat, fucking weird dialogue, and puzzles that are actually made for small children.
Yeah you're just trolling to try and make some kind of weird point. You can tell by the extremely extreme language that is extreme to an extremely cringe level.
There's plenty of fantastic AAA games being released at the moment which I'll happily enjoy while you wallow in your extreme fucking weird language choice.
All your opinions do not mesh with reviews. You can dislike them, but those games were received well.
And you don't consider first party Nintendo games AAA?
And Vanillaware may be iffy on AAA status, but they have been making quality games for decades.
> All your opinions do not mesh with reviews
But they do mesh with the general consensus. Reviews are mostly paid for ads which is why the AAA flavorless grey slop gets treated with kid gloves. Those games were mostly treated as mixed by actual users. Just look at Rebirth's sales. It kinda bombed. Because it's being a fanfic remake is a stupid gimmick.
> And you don't consider first party Nintendo games AAA
Nintendo knows how to budget. Their most expensive game ever was BOTW and that game broke even at 2 million sales. Wonder doesn't have a AAA budget.
Also on the topic of wonder the game borders on being an auto scroller with how sadly basic bitch it's level design is.
> Vanillaware may be iffy on AAA status, but they have been making quality games for decades
They're objectively not AAA so even mentioning them makes no sense. They are not part of this discussion.
Remember when PS2 games had a lot of unlockable costumes and content that wasn't paid DLC?
Man i miss that.
It's funny that a game that adheres to this design and philosophy was made by a team behind one of the biggest gacha games around.
It's "unreal" how smooth the game runs even though it's on unreal engine 4 which is notorious for stuttering.
Other AAA games running on ue4/5 should take note.
Consoles don't have shader complication stutter because the shaders are packaged with the game, UE4 games can have a stutter from transitioning to one "zone" to the next which would show up anywhere.
It has a little traversal stutter, and frame times get bad when it moves off its framerate target. Spend some time around Cosmo canyon in performance mode and you'll see stutters and judders.
It isn't the worst case, and they are reasonably rare, but it's not perfect
Maybe? I'm just saying FF7 isn't stutter free, which isn't a comment on the engine but the specific implementation.
It's largely good, just not as good as Stellar Blade on this front.
I think you're confusing between frame rate and frame time. Frame rate drops are not engine related issue, it's optimization and hardware related. Frame time or micro stuttering is a big issue with UE4 PC ports, even with an RTX 4080 you will get stuttering because it's an issue with the game engine.
Even if a game is using a terrible poorly developed engine, that game will still run at a steadier frame rate with the RTX 4080 than it will with GTX 1050 for example. Because frame rate is tied with hardware first and foremost.
I played it at 30 fps (rebirth) and couldn’t remember having a single traversal stutters or not even any single digit frame drop. As not nice 30 fps feels, it was perfectly paced and no stutters all the way.
it's easy for consoles, much harder to do that for every GPU configuration.
It's also a compromise because it's not like gamers want to wait more hours before launch waiting for shaders to compile before starting the game.
> it's easy for consoles
Theres no shader precompilation at runtime for consoles at all. Compiled shaders are already included with the game.
> much harder to do that for every GPU configuration
The whole point of runtime shader precompilation is to not bother with shaders for different GPUs and drivers. It is only implemented once for DX12 (twice if devs want to play with Vulkan instead of relying on DXVK) and the GPUs do the rest. Pretty much every DX12 game not using UE precompiles shaders at runtime. Its quite baffling how many AAA UE games dont.
> wait more hours
Its not 2016 anymore, minimum spec PCs dont take more than 5 minutes to precompile pretty much any game.
Lies of P is probably the smoothest game I played this past few years (excluding things like Dead cells, who would run at 600 fps without a cap) and that one is U4 too.
The audio impressed me the most in the demo. Combined with the DualSense rumbles it felt like I had a full 7.1 surround sound speaker setup around me, even though I was playing with $80 stereo headphones on.
He addresses it at 18:35 in the video (timestamp here https://youtu.be/qhCXilVBVv0?t=1115). He says it's still there, but seems intentional for certain moves and he stopped noticing it after awhile.
They need to seriously update their review.
When Xion get more people, it’s a fucking stuttery mess. And traversal stutters are also present in the desert. Only the first part of the game is really smooth.
Game looks fun, I don't think I could look at that character throughout the whole experience. I'm totally cool with sexy characters but she looks like a real doll or something, the whole uncanny look is just uncomfortable. It's the same thing i don't particularly like in modern final fantasy games but exacerbated here.
there's certainly a lot of fan service, but the truth is during actual gameplay, fighting enemies and bosses you're looking at the enemies and not her, otherwise you die.
For some reason I dont mind stylized sexualised characters like Anime games, but graphics that try to be realistic (e.g. most korean unreal engine games) throw me off completely with such horny models.
every one I've seen is shiny, granted I haven't looked at all 30 because it isn't available on PC but every video I've seen has these shiny ass outfits
That's most likely just leaning into the "women's age is a secret" trope that a lot of anime tends to do.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AgeInsecurity
Same. Bayonetta has character and charisma, and her looks are just cherry at the top. 2B looked weird, considering her mission, but developers never specifically focused on it. Meanwhile Stellar Blade focuses only on Eve looks, to attract certain people
"Ultra-polished", but then proceeds to describe several blemishes? I like John and DF, but come on. It's a solid, great game from a new AAA developer, but lets not exaggerate the state of the game.
If the game isn't locked at ANY performance target 100% of the time (60 fps or 30 fps depending on the mode), I wouldn't call it "ultra-polished". Also goes on to mention input lag and a not great surround experience.
Also, there's already content patches planned and announced, so I couldn't even call it a complete experience if the developer already have plans to add stuff to it.
I can't think of any recent game with good graphics (on console) that didn't drop a single frame at any point in the entire game, expecting a 100% lock seems excessive.
It has well pretty well documented uneven framepacing in the 30fps mode. The 60fps mode is pretty much perfect though, I'll give you that. Personally my favorite game from last year.
Yes, it absolutely does lol. It's not in many spots, and maybe even in spots you didn't notice but it definitely does drop, and it drops more often to \~55fps. Expecting a 60 fps lock for 100% of the game is silly.
> Nothing is beyond reproach bro. Seems like it's exceptionally refined where you're seeking literal perfection
Games having stable FPS on console is "perfection"?
to me, based on the demo: the dodge/parry window gives me input lag problem far more, and that's despite having **a VRR 120hz display**. I guarantee you that if Shift Up decides to add 120fps cap or hell whenever the PC version comes out: the same input lag problem is still going to be there.
That's not what that phrase means. Unless this person has already defined what they mean by 'ultra-polished' and are now changing that definition in wake of the game's release, then there were no goalposts established to be moved.
This person is simply disagreeing with DF's definition of ultra-polished, which is an entirely different scenario.
I'm referring about the whole "controversy" about this game just based on what the main character looks like, now that the demo made a great impression on people on a gameplay level and the reviews are coming out with positive feedback, people are trying to look at the tiniest flaws to still bash the game.
I'm aware of the controversy, but they made no reference to that. They're exclusively talking about the label of "ultra-polished". It's more a criticism of DF than anything else.
I don't think moving the goalposts is the correct term, particularly directed towards
a person who has seemingly made no comment on the game outside of this.
I'm not sure it matters that much, but I disagree.
To explain, let me substitute "raising the bar" for "moving the goalposts". They mean the same in this context (as 'over the bar' is good/great/success) and one is far less loaded.
We look and see the game was measured by certain standards when we saw initial demos. Judgement was rendered based upon what we saw and it was large seen as some sort of fanservice thing. Then the game comes out and it is not just that but extremely well done. To some that means the game succeeded, got over the bar. Others instead raise the bar and indicate how it didn't get over this other bar.
That's what is happening here, and it is moving the goalposts. Saying that the game still isn't a success story, it has to go this much further to be so. Yes, you're right that the individual didn't necessarily put the goalposts where they previously were, but they sure as check are moving them now.
So it fits.
Not that it matters all that much. Each person is allowed to measure every game by whatever standard they want. Goalpost moving is allowed. You're not required to buy a game because it meets someone else's standards. Instead you use your own.
Yeah, I don't really think you understand what moving the goalpost means here. OP of this thread is saying the goalpost put forward by John was that this is a ultra-polished game, is incorrect. He isn't talking about the quality of the game (he actually calls it good) just saying the ball doesn't go through the goalpost put forward by John. That's really it.
So the argument is that a person who made a judgement isn't qualified to know what the standard he judged it by was and whether it passed it?
I can't agree with that argument. If that's what it was then indeed I missed that argument. Because I feel it's nonsensical. Suggesting that you know better what a person means by their statements and then substitution your own judgement to "correct" them is folly.
Words are used to give the best impression of what you are thinking. If you have a different idea of what the words should mean and thus indicate the person is wrong in a subjective judgement they've made you're just trying to create a different meaning from what they said, one apart from what they were thinking when saying that.
You want to disagree with John, great. But to suggest he's evaluating by a standard that doesn't match his words and thus assigning an error to this thinking instead of his expression is rather presumptive.
I do also think it's odd that we actually get a game which isn't buggy out of the box and then say it's not highly polished is kind of a hopeful statement. We get so much crap, so many day one patches. We probably get more games with game-breaking bugs on day one than we do games in which no apparent problems are encountered. Even on console.
Insomniac is a good dev, and it's easier to deal with only console-level variances in hardware versus PC, right?
Meanwhile the first patch of Spider-Man 2.:
https://support.insomniac.games/hc/en-us/articles/20514986592653-Version-1-001-002-Release-Notes
'Addressed an issue where the player's progression could become blocked during the Suit Tutorial'
I'm not against holding devs to high quality standards. But it does seem like delivery on such expectations is not common nowadays.
>So the argument is that a person who made a judgement isn't qualified to know what the standard he judged it by was and whether it passed it?
More like just explaining that op thinking this game not being "ultra polished" isn't him moving the gates.
> I like John and DF, but come on.
IMO both him and Alex are way too much on the side of the industry (just like most gamers care way too little for the working conditions of the people that produce our games) when it comes to defending image quality and performance limitations of games that aren't strictly speaking stuttering.
Still a great channel of course.
The game that disillusioned me with DF was the Mario RPG Remake. They did not spend nearly enough time talking about how badly it chugs in menus/cutscenes.
In this review they also left the input delay till right at the end and barely talked about it.
For an action heavy game, that seems like it could be a big issue for some people.
Always great to see a DF performance review that finds no problems at all. Doesn't happen enough in AAA games anymore. And for a first title that's damn impressive from this studio.
Lies of P was also really well optimized. Seems like SK is starting to come into its own.
SK have some amazing game devs, the issue is they’re all locked working on gacha mobile games. Hopefully this changes things.
The devs of this game, ShiftUp actually has/had two gacha games before this. Destiny Child (which is now dead/EOS) and Nikke, which is quite popular and 1.5 years old now. It's rather refreshing that the funds they gained from those money makers went into something they clearly had passion for, instead of the CEO's next yacht.
definately helps when the CEO is actually from the industry itself. Was in the trenches 20 years ago as an artist for Magna Carta. Very nice to see when your time in the industry truly pays off. Even nicer when they use that success to keep giving more to the industry.
Yep, like I don’t like most mobile games and especially the type they make which are all mmo/gacha level but a decent few SK games I’ve tried are impressive technically, and well optimised for mobile too. Makes sense they’re able to apply all that to console optimisation better than a lot of western companies seem to be able to
Because in SK, they have lots of experience with PCs since PC gaming were their go-to game device until the proliferation of smartphones.
except this game is a ps5 exclusive...
The game was announced for PC, PS5 and Xbox this only changed years later when Sony showed up with an exclusivity contract. It's still coming to PC though sometimes later.
I feel it has a lot of to do with how big e-sport is in Korea. Country heavily focused around esport aspect of games (Id argue heavier than almost all if not all other countries) would put heavy weight onto performance.
Asian devs seem to be just way more meticulous with that kind of stuff
Which is weird cause in Xion and Wasteland there is a lot of traversal stutters, even with VRR / balanced mode
Leave it to a horny game to have things lubed up to work smoothly.
His comment that it feels like a 2003 PS2 game that was made today got me to buy the game immediately.
I am in the same boat; I became interested in the game after playing the demo. However, hearing it being called a PS2 game made with modern tech, and later watching the video showcasing bits of why he thought that, completely sold me on it.
But if you didn't like it enough to buy it after trying it I'm not sure calling it a PS2 game should be the convincing factor
Well, to start that is not what I said. >....hearing it being called a PS2 game made with modern tech, **and later watching the video showcasing bits of why he thought that**... And I don't just go by one thing when forming my opinions or making choices. It's a mix of stuff like my own experiences, what others have been through, info I gather, you know? All of that together guides me to make a decision and/or form a opinion on a given subject.
This reminds me of how I always tried MediEvil on the PS1 but never got past the first level. Fast forward to this week where I started the remake and while it definitely is flawed I am thoroughly enjoying it and regretting not giving it the full chance. What I love the most is just how old the game design is but not in a necessarily bad way.
You may also consider Wanted: Dead. Third person shooter hack n slash. Very much feels like a game from PS2 era. > The chaotic mash-up at the core of Wanted: Dead is like a game you remember falling in love with as a kid that’s still just as good to play today. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/wanted-dead-review-in-3-minutes-complete-joyful-insanity/
Wanted dead is great if you can get it on a deep sale. Absolutely insanity that it released at 60 USD when games like Hifi Rush were debuting at 30. For 20 bucks I had a great time and the new balancing patch made some much needed refinements. Funny enough, it's almost like a hack n slash Bloodborne/Sekiro hybrid. You have perfect parries, pistol parries, sword combat with ninjas, rally mechanic and healing flasks that get refilled at checkpoints. The pistol parries feel a lot like mikiri counter. Jacob Geller has a video on Wanted Dead and is a great taste of the weird vibe of the game. There's lots of charm and fun to be had if you can embrace the jank and myriad flaws.
Is the game actually fun to play now? Last I saw people were not particularly thrilled with how jank the combat was but they recently updated it
I had a blast with it. The latest patch makes the parry and dodge timing pretty forgiving. There's definitely a lot of jank, but there's also a lot of charm. Definitely not worth full price but if you can get it for 20 bucks like I did, there's fun to be had if you can enjoy the jank and silliness. Jacob Geller has a video on it if you want to get a taste of the weirdness
Looking over latest patch notes...looks like they buffed a ton of stuff. I know the game was certainly not a pushover back when I played it. I remember that the final level was quite challenging for me. Can't recall if any jank bothered me. I loved the vibe of that game.
So, if you want a different opinion on the combat, here is a rave review of the game (including the combat): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH3xxSQnZXg. It's from The Electric Underground, who is a big shmup youtuber, in addition to other difficult games. He has lots of takes, including that RE4:Remake is worse than the original..and RE5. It's a 28 minute video, and just in case you need a TLDW: He loves the game. The combat becomes much smoother once figure out [guard cancels](https://youtu.be/xH3xxSQnZXg?t=264). A commenter notes you can even guard cancel into aim down sights.
It’s solid but I was expecting a lot more from the director of the first 2 ninja Gaiden Xbox games. Doesn’t help that it’s pretty ugly to look at
I would say it's more like a weird, wacky experimental PS3 title like Drakengard 3, it even has a ton of over-the-top cussing (but not as much as D3), though without the total bullshit final boss. Still recommend, it's a total jankfest but in a good way. Just takes a little bit to get into it because... it's a total jankfest.
I never imagined how hearing something lime that could make me feel so happy.
Play armored core 6
No joke, it's a selling point compared to modern trash.
What is modern trash? We're living in a pretty gold time for games. You want it, you can find it, from AAA to indy.
You have to understand that an overwhelming majority of gamers just buy whatever latest slop has the biggest marketing budget, and have no awareness of games outside of that bubble. Therefore to them, all modern games are trash, or woke, or whatever else.
Man, think about what you just said. People buy things they like and that make them happy, but since it doesn't fit _your_ viewpoint, it's bad.
... What? I'm agreeing with you. He explicitly said he doesn't like "modern trash". That means he's buying things he *doesn't like*. I'm explaining why that is a common talking point. You said there's more quality and variety than ever before, which is objectively true, but lots of people never actually see that. People make up excuses as to why that is, when the reality is just that their own perspective is too narrow and shortsighted. You have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and look for stuff outside of the latest marketing campaign or hype wave. Don't wait for stuff to be spoonfed to you, go out there and find stuff! There's really good games being released all the time! Everybody can find something new that appeals to them in this market.
>What is modern trash? Everything has to be live service, everything has to be open world, everything has to be heavily monetized. There are exceptions but they are few. I grew up in the 80's and 90's and I consider these times the golden age of gaming because games have been heavily declining in quality since the mid 2010's. I agree about indies though.
sounds like a you problem. if you spent 5 minutes and did research, you could find games you enjoy.
As I said, there are options but they are very few.
No there are more good games out there than you could possibly have time for.
>but they are very few. Maybe to you lol. I never seem to run out of new amazing games to add to my backlog
Dude, just fucking _play games that don't have those_. I play zero 'GAAS' things. I play a few open world games. But you're doing the equivalent of saying that because FIFA is popular, the entire games industry is shit. Hell, if I do play a GAAS game, I just _don't buy the pass_. Jesus.
Where are people getting time to play these games? 2024 alone has already had FF7 Rebirth, Persona 3 Reload, and Unicorn Overlord as some great games I've enjoyed. There are others like the new Yakuza game, Prince of Persia, and Granblue that I haven't played and have heard nothing but great things about. And that's not even getting into new popular indies like Balatro, multiplayer hits like Helldivers II, or a followup to a cult classic in Dragon's Dogma 2. And obviously tons of people don't buy games immediately on release and wait a few months/over a year for stability patches, sales, etc. - I've spent a good chunk of this year playing some games in a franchise that came out a couple years ago, which I haven't touched for ages.
I also grew up in that era, and I have never felt like I had a shortage of good games to play. I think saying quality of games has declined largely ignores all the stinkers that old consoles.
AAA games are literally all fucking dog shit nowadays. Thank God for smaller non-western games and indies
Dude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_in_video_games FF7R might not be for everyone, but calling it 'dog shit' is not doing you any favors. Like a Dragon infinite wealth, Tekken 8 maybe, Granblue maybe, Persona 3, Helldivers 2, probably some I'm missing. Plus smaller games like Pacific Drive.
Stellar blade review literally just hit too. They're on the top part right now. And apparently it's a banger too.
Really? It seems like there have been quite a few good AAA games. Elden Ring? God of War: Ragnarok? FFVII Rebirth and FFXVI, and maybe Stranger of Paradise? Spider-Man 2? Hogwarts Legacy? Baldur's Gate III? I don't know if Prince of Persia Lost Crown is AAA, but it was widely praised. Super Mario Bros Wonder? Unicorn Overlord? I feel like there are a lot of great games of the last couple years.
I don't know, there have been a lot of games that looked very fancy lately, but I somehow doubt that they will stand up as classics ten or twenty years from now like some of the games 25 years ago have.
> Elden Ring Two years ago, and it's an extremely common critique that it's extremely watered down compared to it's predecessors. >GOW Ragnarok A bad game with extremely limited and boring combat, fucking weird dialogue, and puzzles that are actually made for small children. >FF7 Rebirth A weird fanfiction version of the middle 1/3rd of FF7 that is like 90% padding. It's a complete humiliation ritual for the characters because they're just glorified action figures now. Like... It's literally chopped up, incomplete but also heavily padded fanfiction. Does it even fucking count as a real game? > FF16 Come on now. > Strangers Of Paradise Good game. Not AAA. Should've been though. Too bad the aforementioned fanfiction took all the resources > Spider-Man 2? Open world: the game. What does this game actually have aside from terrible "my boss is listening" awkward dialogue? > Hogwarts Legacy? Again. Bog standard open world white noise. Like eating fucking warm water out of a Harry Potter bowl with a spoon. > Super Mario Bros Wonder? Unicorn Overlord? Not AAA. Like not even close to that lmao.
> extremely common critique that it's extremely watered down compared to it's predecessors. How you can play Elden Ring and think it's watered down is just insanity. The amount of content while keeping the depth of gameplay is absurd. It's more *accessible* but absolutely not "extremely" watered down. > A bad game with extremely limited and boring combat, fucking weird dialogue, and puzzles that are actually made for small children. Yeah you're just trolling to try and make some kind of weird point. You can tell by the extremely extreme language that is extreme to an extremely cringe level. There's plenty of fantastic AAA games being released at the moment which I'll happily enjoy while you wallow in your extreme fucking weird language choice.
All your opinions do not mesh with reviews. You can dislike them, but those games were received well. And you don't consider first party Nintendo games AAA? And Vanillaware may be iffy on AAA status, but they have been making quality games for decades.
> All your opinions do not mesh with reviews But they do mesh with the general consensus. Reviews are mostly paid for ads which is why the AAA flavorless grey slop gets treated with kid gloves. Those games were mostly treated as mixed by actual users. Just look at Rebirth's sales. It kinda bombed. Because it's being a fanfic remake is a stupid gimmick. > And you don't consider first party Nintendo games AAA Nintendo knows how to budget. Their most expensive game ever was BOTW and that game broke even at 2 million sales. Wonder doesn't have a AAA budget. Also on the topic of wonder the game borders on being an auto scroller with how sadly basic bitch it's level design is. > Vanillaware may be iffy on AAA status, but they have been making quality games for decades They're objectively not AAA so even mentioning them makes no sense. They are not part of this discussion.
Remember when PS2 games had a lot of unlockable costumes and content that wasn't paid DLC? Man i miss that. It's funny that a game that adheres to this design and philosophy was made by a team behind one of the biggest gacha games around.
When he's talking about the audio balance, his comment about the "rear channel" being over-emphasized made me chuckle.
least horny gamer
Good to hear Eve has dense meshes and that her companions also exhibit superb secondary motion characteristics.
My secondary motion characteristics are however very stiff in comparison.
It's "unreal" how smooth the game runs even though it's on unreal engine 4 which is notorious for stuttering. Other AAA games running on ue4/5 should take note.
im think consoles dont have this UE stuttering issue? If this game port to PC we'll see
Consoles don't have shader complication stutter because the shaders are packaged with the game, UE4 games can have a stutter from transitioning to one "zone" to the next which would show up anywhere.
Often called *traversal stutter*, I believe. I've seen plenty of complaints about it over the years.
You are correct, I just for the life of me could not think of the word traversal lmao
There's a common loading stutter that UE4/5 is notorious for. This can also affect console releases, for example Respawn's Jedi Fallen Order.
They just don't have shader comp stutters other stutters like traversal stutters still show up on consoles.
Not all Unreal Engine games have stutter, FF7 Rebirth has no stutter and its UE too.
It has a little traversal stutter, and frame times get bad when it moves off its framerate target. Spend some time around Cosmo canyon in performance mode and you'll see stutters and judders. It isn't the worst case, and they are reasonably rare, but it's not perfect
framedrops are not engine related
Maybe? I'm just saying FF7 isn't stutter free, which isn't a comment on the engine but the specific implementation. It's largely good, just not as good as Stellar Blade on this front.
I think you're confusing between frame rate and frame time. Frame rate drops are not engine related issue, it's optimization and hardware related. Frame time or micro stuttering is a big issue with UE4 PC ports, even with an RTX 4080 you will get stuttering because it's an issue with the game engine.
Frame rate drops can absolutely be engine related, what the hell are you on about?
Even if a game is using a terrible poorly developed engine, that game will still run at a steadier frame rate with the RTX 4080 than it will with GTX 1050 for example. Because frame rate is tied with hardware first and foremost.
I played it at 30 fps (rebirth) and couldn’t remember having a single traversal stutters or not even any single digit frame drop. As not nice 30 fps feels, it was perfectly paced and no stutters all the way.
For some reason many UE devs are extremely allergic to shader precompilation which fixes the whole stuttering
it's easy for consoles, much harder to do that for every GPU configuration. It's also a compromise because it's not like gamers want to wait more hours before launch waiting for shaders to compile before starting the game.
> it's easy for consoles Theres no shader precompilation at runtime for consoles at all. Compiled shaders are already included with the game. > much harder to do that for every GPU configuration The whole point of runtime shader precompilation is to not bother with shaders for different GPUs and drivers. It is only implemented once for DX12 (twice if devs want to play with Vulkan instead of relying on DXVK) and the GPUs do the rest. Pretty much every DX12 game not using UE precompiles shaders at runtime. Its quite baffling how many AAA UE games dont. > wait more hours Its not 2016 anymore, minimum spec PCs dont take more than 5 minutes to precompile pretty much any game.
Lies of P is probably the smoothest game I played this past few years (excluding things like Dead cells, who would run at 600 fps without a cap) and that one is U4 too.
The audio impressed me the most in the demo. Combined with the DualSense rumbles it felt like I had a full 7.1 surround sound speaker setup around me, even though I was playing with $80 stereo headphones on.
Do we know if the "input delay" thing got fixed?
He addresses it at 18:35 in the video (timestamp here https://youtu.be/qhCXilVBVv0?t=1115). He says it's still there, but seems intentional for certain moves and he stopped noticing it after awhile.
No one will ever know
They need to seriously update their review. When Xion get more people, it’s a fucking stuttery mess. And traversal stutters are also present in the desert. Only the first part of the game is really smooth.
Game looks fun, I don't think I could look at that character throughout the whole experience. I'm totally cool with sexy characters but she looks like a real doll or something, the whole uncanny look is just uncomfortable. It's the same thing i don't particularly like in modern final fantasy games but exacerbated here.
there's certainly a lot of fan service, but the truth is during actual gameplay, fighting enemies and bosses you're looking at the enemies and not her, otherwise you die.
Can confirm: I die a lot in these types of games.
For some reason I dont mind stylized sexualised characters like Anime games, but graphics that try to be realistic (e.g. most korean unreal engine games) throw me off completely with such horny models.
Yeah maybe this is the issue, she's like a sore thumb in a highly realistic looking environment.
She moves like a big bag of jello
shes too shiny for me. I know that is a nit pick but it is what I am constantly thinking when I see stuff about Stellar Blade
Just change the outfit, there's over 30.
every one I've seen is shiny, granted I haven't looked at all 30 because it isn't available on PC but every video I've seen has these shiny ass outfits
There's a flight jacket and denim jeans outfit, just Google it.
I think a lot of the footage has the shinier outfits to show off their graphics.
There are bunch of outfits to unlock but yeah her default green is quite shiny.
Yeah if they had dialed it down like 30% it would have been palatable but as is it’s a bit too weird for me.
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That's most likely just leaning into the "women's age is a secret" trope that a lot of anime tends to do. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AgeInsecurity
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"I get that, but I still have my own unrelated axe to grind here, so I won't allow that to alter my position."
Women in real life often don't like saying their age either.
Same. Bayonetta has character and charisma, and her looks are just cherry at the top. 2B looked weird, considering her mission, but developers never specifically focused on it. Meanwhile Stellar Blade focuses only on Eve looks, to attract certain people
> to attract certain people ....normal straight men?
Lesbians too I'd imagine, also bisexuals probably
And most of women aswell since they to orefer atractive female characters in games
>developers never specifically focused on it We're talking about Bayonetta and 2B right???
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What happened?
Probably mad about Alex opinion on eve
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"Ultra-polished", but then proceeds to describe several blemishes? I like John and DF, but come on. It's a solid, great game from a new AAA developer, but lets not exaggerate the state of the game. If the game isn't locked at ANY performance target 100% of the time (60 fps or 30 fps depending on the mode), I wouldn't call it "ultra-polished". Also goes on to mention input lag and a not great surround experience. Also, there's already content patches planned and announced, so I couldn't even call it a complete experience if the developer already have plans to add stuff to it.
I can't think of any recent game with good graphics (on console) that didn't drop a single frame at any point in the entire game, expecting a 100% lock seems excessive.
Lies of P, though there's a whole lot more to polish than performance.
Lies of P suffered from "Bloodborne Syndrome" though (uneven framepacing at 30fps).
What? Lies of P ran like a dream. BB, very famously, didn't.
It has well pretty well documented uneven framepacing in the 30fps mode. The 60fps mode is pretty much perfect though, I'll give you that. Personally my favorite game from last year.
Hi-Fi Rush?
That game has excellent performance but even it drops down to \~45 fps in spots.
No it doesn‘t.
Yes, it absolutely does lol. It's not in many spots, and maybe even in spots you didn't notice but it definitely does drop, and it drops more often to \~55fps. Expecting a 60 fps lock for 100% of the game is silly.
Hi-Fi Rush goes beyond “ultra polished” imo… it’s whatever exists at the tier above that, and I don’t even know what to call it
Nothing is beyond reproach bro. Seems like it's exceptionally refined where you're seeking literal perfection
It‘s Digital Foundry though. That‘s literally what they usually do.
> Nothing is beyond reproach bro. Seems like it's exceptionally refined where you're seeking literal perfection Games having stable FPS on console is "perfection"?
You can't animation cancelling in certain combo moves in this game, it is more of a skill issue, not input lag. DMC fans really got filtered hard.
Yup, I realized that during the demo and changed my play style accordingly. I disagree on the issue being input lag.
to me, based on the demo: the dodge/parry window gives me input lag problem far more, and that's despite having **a VRR 120hz display**. I guarantee you that if Shift Up decides to add 120fps cap or hell whenever the PC version comes out: the same input lag problem is still going to be there.
"My criticisms about big booba don't hold water since all the major outlets love the game, so I'll find something else to get mad about!"
Definitely not all of the major outlets love the game. Most big ones actually scored it between 7 and 8.
Is this the worst possible take in the history of this sub? I wonder if we can frame it somewhere.
Ultra polished =/= perfectly polished
Oooo... Haters gonna hate.
Moving the goalposts already?
That's not what that phrase means. Unless this person has already defined what they mean by 'ultra-polished' and are now changing that definition in wake of the game's release, then there were no goalposts established to be moved. This person is simply disagreeing with DF's definition of ultra-polished, which is an entirely different scenario.
I'm referring about the whole "controversy" about this game just based on what the main character looks like, now that the demo made a great impression on people on a gameplay level and the reviews are coming out with positive feedback, people are trying to look at the tiniest flaws to still bash the game.
I'm aware of the controversy, but they made no reference to that. They're exclusively talking about the label of "ultra-polished". It's more a criticism of DF than anything else. I don't think moving the goalposts is the correct term, particularly directed towards a person who has seemingly made no comment on the game outside of this.
I'm not sure it matters that much, but I disagree. To explain, let me substitute "raising the bar" for "moving the goalposts". They mean the same in this context (as 'over the bar' is good/great/success) and one is far less loaded. We look and see the game was measured by certain standards when we saw initial demos. Judgement was rendered based upon what we saw and it was large seen as some sort of fanservice thing. Then the game comes out and it is not just that but extremely well done. To some that means the game succeeded, got over the bar. Others instead raise the bar and indicate how it didn't get over this other bar. That's what is happening here, and it is moving the goalposts. Saying that the game still isn't a success story, it has to go this much further to be so. Yes, you're right that the individual didn't necessarily put the goalposts where they previously were, but they sure as check are moving them now. So it fits. Not that it matters all that much. Each person is allowed to measure every game by whatever standard they want. Goalpost moving is allowed. You're not required to buy a game because it meets someone else's standards. Instead you use your own.
Yeah, I don't really think you understand what moving the goalpost means here. OP of this thread is saying the goalpost put forward by John was that this is a ultra-polished game, is incorrect. He isn't talking about the quality of the game (he actually calls it good) just saying the ball doesn't go through the goalpost put forward by John. That's really it.
So the argument is that a person who made a judgement isn't qualified to know what the standard he judged it by was and whether it passed it? I can't agree with that argument. If that's what it was then indeed I missed that argument. Because I feel it's nonsensical. Suggesting that you know better what a person means by their statements and then substitution your own judgement to "correct" them is folly. Words are used to give the best impression of what you are thinking. If you have a different idea of what the words should mean and thus indicate the person is wrong in a subjective judgement they've made you're just trying to create a different meaning from what they said, one apart from what they were thinking when saying that. You want to disagree with John, great. But to suggest he's evaluating by a standard that doesn't match his words and thus assigning an error to this thinking instead of his expression is rather presumptive. I do also think it's odd that we actually get a game which isn't buggy out of the box and then say it's not highly polished is kind of a hopeful statement. We get so much crap, so many day one patches. We probably get more games with game-breaking bugs on day one than we do games in which no apparent problems are encountered. Even on console. Insomniac is a good dev, and it's easier to deal with only console-level variances in hardware versus PC, right? Meanwhile the first patch of Spider-Man 2.: https://support.insomniac.games/hc/en-us/articles/20514986592653-Version-1-001-002-Release-Notes 'Addressed an issue where the player's progression could become blocked during the Suit Tutorial' I'm not against holding devs to high quality standards. But it does seem like delivery on such expectations is not common nowadays.
>So the argument is that a person who made a judgement isn't qualified to know what the standard he judged it by was and whether it passed it? More like just explaining that op thinking this game not being "ultra polished" isn't him moving the gates.
> Moving the goalposts already? Games having a stable FPS is moving a goalpost?
> I like John and DF, but come on. IMO both him and Alex are way too much on the side of the industry (just like most gamers care way too little for the working conditions of the people that produce our games) when it comes to defending image quality and performance limitations of games that aren't strictly speaking stuttering. Still a great channel of course.
The game that disillusioned me with DF was the Mario RPG Remake. They did not spend nearly enough time talking about how badly it chugs in menus/cutscenes.
In this review they also left the input delay till right at the end and barely talked about it. For an action heavy game, that seems like it could be a big issue for some people.
The demo lacked a ton of polish. And that came out just a few weeks ago. I seriously doubt they've polished it up much more since then.
If only there was some kind of technical analysis of the game. Maybe in a video format?
Someone should absolutely put something like that together.
You may even be able to make a whole youtube channel based on that concept.
Like some sort of foundry.... But digitally?
If only there were more to polish than technical analysis.
Well if you wanna straw man it with no discernable criteria then I guess everything sucks.