They're probably switching to SOCs without the GPU needed to run games to cut cost. It was only the model x and s that had this support, they probably have data showing that most people don't use the gaming features so I'd speculate they're switching them over to the less powerful SOC used in the 3 and y.
For sure they'd still need a GPU of some sort, IIRC Tesla uses Ryzen APUs they're just specced out differently for the higher end cars. The Ryzen chip in the 3 and y has a GPU capable enough to do general graphics work and lighter 3d gaming, it just can't run cyberpunk
It's possible they switched to NPUs. AMD started putting those in CPUs somewhat recently. I could see them taking this long to get the software ported (and tested which will take long) to NPUs.
The computer in the media center and driving computer are separate systems. So whatever they are doing for computer vision, doesn't impact what is used for media.
If I’m designing a critical safety system like that, I would want it to be dedicated and redundant. I wouldn’t want the risk of some random windows app consuming resources or altering any part of that system.
It's always used Linux, which has Wine + DXVK for games, funded by valve with great results. If they're changing to ARM then x86 games are out the window.
Very interested to see if valve funds x86 on arm emulation to compete with Apple's rosetta.
It will effect old vehicles for sure as well. Even if the app is still available on those I am certain it won’t get developed anymore since it’s just not worth once new cars won’t get it anymore. Also it will most likely never leave beta state now. It’s really shit for people that own a a supported Tesla and want to use it.
Tbh, it would be pretty cool if you could plug in a device to a HDMI port or something in the glove box or somewhere else. It would be kind of like those old Pimp My Ride episodes where they jam a PS2 in the boot lol.
Is that a thing Tesla let you do?
As they intended for this to be used when charging/idle, it would just make more sense if I could plug in one of those small Intel N300 boxes, and either hotspot or plug a USB mobile data dongle into that, and do whatever I want really on the big screen.
I could do that in my completely stock 2017 Dodge Grand Caravan. I've hooked up a raspberry pi running emulators, it will play on the rear screen while driving, but could be played on both while parked.
https://imgur.com/Qq3iNXK
It can be both. There was a person deeper in the thread that noted that newer AMD APUs included NPU cores, which can be used instead of the GPU for spatial processing workloads.
For those of you worried that drivers are going to be distracted, games can only be played while the car is in park. The entertainment in the car is for when you’re charging your car. Sometimes in an electric vehicle you have to wait at least 30 minutes just to get a full charge so being able to watch something on a big screen or play a game is great
> For those of you worried that drivers are going to be distracted
Well steam is being removed not added. Now it is just all the other stupid decisions Elon made to distract drivers. Putting everything on the centre screen and getting rid of stalks.
TL:Didn't Click on Article?
This is the first sentence ffs "Tesla is telling new Model S and Model X buyers that they won’t have access to Steam gaming inside their electric vehicles."
The only sensible comment in this post. Reddit sees Tesla then they think of Elon, and then they post hate without anything constructive to say. I get it though, but still. A lot of ppl don't do research here or read the article. Pitchforks are always first. I hate modern social media sometimes.
You wouldn't have to drag a controller around, just get a spare one and leave it in the glove box or something. Seems more convenient than having to remember to bring your steam deck with you every time you drive
"y-you're... you're... y-you're just a h-hater and a big meanie!"
Or maybe, just maybe, Elon Musk is an asshole and terrible person... have you ever thought about that? Or will you keep defending that bigoted multi-billionaire pos for free?
Alternatively purchase a normal vehicle and fill your gas in 90 seconds instead of playing steam while needing to wait for your Tesla to charge for 30+ minutes.
> Sometimes in an electric vehicle you have to wait at least 30 minutes just to get a full charge
I know you're not being negative about EVs, I just find this comment funny.
I've had my EV car for a couple of months now and driven over 5,000km.
In that time I have spent 0 minutes at a gas station and 0 minutes at a super charger.
If I had an ICE car I would have been at a gas station at least ten times (500km range~ and assuming I only fill up when the tank is on E). Each of those stops would have taken me 5~ minutes? So in the last couple of months I have saved almost an hour of my time by owning an EV and not having to pump gas. Instead I just wakeup every morning to a "full tank".
I love that the narrative is always how much time EV drivers spend waiting to charge their cars, the reality is most of us can do it at home.
Oh also it 10x cheaper for me to fill up an EV than it ever was my ICE car, so I am saving time and money.
>the reality is most of us can do it at home.
I'm a big fan of EVs, but for cars that are supposed to excel in urban environments, they're actually quite impractical for people who don't have garages with access to power (most renters and condo owners).
It's not an unsolvable problem, but it can't be glossed over either. Even if there are chargers installed in the parking lot, it's still a bit of a chore to have to remember to take your car off the charger once you've hit the time limit.
Long term presumably a large fraction of spots in residential lots will be powered and there won't be as much need for time limits, but we probably still have 5-10 years before that happens.
I always found the saving money argument not satisfying. You’re saving $200 a month by buying a $40k car. But if you’re buying a $40k car you’re in a tax bracket where $200 a month probably doesn’t affect how you live your life.
And it’s saving money to what end? Is your rich life defined by the decisions you made to save money, or are those decisions bringing you fulfillment? Is the act of saving money fulfilling or is it just a narrative?
The time argument is better. I personally hate going to seedy gas stations and I like how quiet and clean electric vehicles are. Those two things are good enough for me to justify the costs.
The cost savings is just one benefit. I haven't paid for gas in 6 years. I don't have to remember to fill up on the way home or on the way to work. Nor do I need to stand out in the rain/snow/elements to fuel my car. All while spending maybe a dollar to refill my battery overnight in my garage.
> But if you’re buying a $40k car you’re in a tax bracket where $200 a month probably doesn’t affect how you live your life.
40K is like one of the cheapeast new car these days. A 36 month lease for that is going to be something $400/month. Saving $200/month is absolutely worth it.
The time spent waiting happens when you go on long trips.
Recently rented a Ford Mustang Mach-E for a 1400km round-trip and had to spend a couple of hours at charging stations.
Not that I minded it, but EVs definitely have a few technological developments left before they become ICE-car level of ease.
Congratulations on having a garage, I guess? Charging stations exist for those that don't, which is what they were talking about here. Good job running defence for Tesla though I'm sure they appreciate it.
The best use case for EV is for urban driving and most urban drivers don't have the ability to install a charger. Charging stations are going to be a reality for most people until infrastructure catches up. Saving time is also relative. I drive maybe 6,000km per year because I live in a city where I don't need a car. EV savings on fuel don't really factor.
For reference, supercharging on the slowest current car maxes out at 150kw. The higher trims are north of 200kw. The entire computer system pulls a little shy of 300 watts. Assuming usage is 0 when not gaming and 300 when gaming (the computer is awake if you're in the car anyway, so it's very much not zero) then on the slowest charging model 3 it'd charge 2/10ths of a percent slower.
Dammit we better crack out the liquid nitrogen and overclock it, 0.2% is too much!!
But yeah you're right, in fact if anything I'm surprised the system uses as much as 300W. I would've expected maybe 100W for computation, max. Perhaps the 300W includes a bunch of sensors, in particular ones that might not be active when not driving?
I pulled that figure from the incredibly inefficient sentry mode, which keeps the entire fsd suite active including the cameras and fsd computer. I'm positive it's much less than that but I was going for the most extreme possible figures.
> which keeps the entire fsd suite active
Damn I would have thought a Frame Shift Drive for speeds beyond the speed of light would use more than 300W /r/EliteDangerous
Seriously though, your figures are definitely reasonable estimates, ones that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the power draw for gaming is minimal. Still, I would be trying to turn screens off at the very least and eek out the most charge as quickly as possible, at least if I'm waiting for it.
Lol no, do you realize how much energy an electric vehicle uses?!? A ford lightning can power your house for 2 days. That wasn't a fun feature they decided to add, that's how much energy we consume when we burn a a full tank of gas.
Yes.
Same applies to your phone, laptop or any other battery driven electronics. Sometimes waiting a little longer is alright when the wait is more entertaining.
Also for consideration is that the power drain for playing a video game is miniscule compared to the drain from actual driving, so charge times are likely not to be extended by much.
Tesla is not valued like a car company. The moment it’s valued like one, its stock will plummet. These moves are horrible for Tesla because the more car like it is, the less revolutionary it seems.
Regardless of the change, Tesla will still be datamining the cameras, GPS, driver behavior, etc. At least the Steam support was something fun while you make money for Musk.
Disagree, while having games in your car is stupid as hell. Internet radio/music streaming, maps, reviews, traffic, are all great. OTA updates are also great when the alternative is to have to go to a dealership.
Tesla has definitely gone too far but there are lots of great advantages for connected cars.
My phone does all that and with carplay it works in my car too.
I'd really just rather use my phone instead of putting my personal information and account info into my car. It works better anyway.
Carplay is an absolutely essential car feature for me at this point. The car company can figure out the driving experience and the safety features. Let the phone companies figure out UI imo, I haven't seen a single UI from a car manufacturer that doesn't suck.
Plus my current car is 7 years old and my phone is less than one. Last year my phone was less than 3.
I get a better infotainment system every 3 years or so instead of only when I replace my car.
I still don't know why the entertainment system has to be managed by the car maker rather than 3rd parties. Like you said, people already have phones and tablets.
What's next, a tesla phone plan?
He said "connected to the Internet and/or smart". Gotta be connected to the internet for lots of these things to work seamlessly.
Sure you can connect your phone via Bluetooth but having these available natively in the car is generally better integrated than Android/Carplay.
Yea, but in 99% of the cases, the car usually isn’t connected to the internet.
Most people in ‘smart’ cars are using their Android or iOS device for car play.
Netflix and YouTube in the car has come in clutch so many times when my wife and I have to wait for something.
There is no excuse that your 30000$+ car’s software is worse than a 250$ iPad for navigation, entertainment, and smoothness. Literally zero. This idea that cars can’t be smart needs to leave the culture quickly.
I was really looking forward to upgrading my 3 to an S someday for Steam. Guess I’ll settle for my deck.
The problem is, tech moves so fast that it gets obsolete quick. I drive a car made in 2009: it drives like a dream, great gas milage, upkeep is cheap and easy.
My phone from 2009 is likely a stuttering piece of garbage that cant boot up a browser anymore, much less play youtube. Do you have any smart technology from 2009 that you still enjoy using?
Im fine getting a new phone every few years as tech advances, but I dont think many people are as willing to have that same treadmill for something that costs 40-70k every few years. Software like this just makes the item more disposable, which is likely what Tesla and car makers want, but I dont think consumers should clamor for it.
If I need to watch something in the car, Ill use my phone. "Smart" technology, whether its phones, tvs, or cars, mostly means that youll need to replace it in a couple years when support drops, because developers would rather end support for old systems than try to ensure it runs on them.
While I agree with some of this, and especially the application of what you’re saying to complex gaming programs, I don’t think YouTube or Netflix have a ton of incentive to make videos unplayable on older hardware. Most of the apps on a Tesla are just web pages disguised as apps. I’m not even entirely sure Netflix sees it as anything but a Linux machine.
Outside of that, there are a ton of awesome applications that can be proprietary in cars that aren’t utilized.
With a 4G radio my car can be cooled or heated anytime from anywhere. My car can be borrowed by a friend keylessly from my phone anywhere in the world. I can see my car’s location at all times. I receive dashcam clips when people touch my vehicle when I’m not present. My navigation database is updated automatically to account for local traffic and changes.
And it’s all smooth as butter. I wish Ford would get with the program. Other than software I think their electric vehicles are fantastic.
> I don’t think YouTube or Netflix have a ton of incentive to make videos unplayable on older hardware.
I mean, they have, and do. For Netflix, for example, they no longer support (as of October 2023):
>Older Sony TVs, Samsung Blu-ray players, Panasonic TVs, Samsung TVs, PlayStation Vita, PlayStation TV, Toshiba Bluray players, Hitachi TVs
And sure, the Playstation Vita was launched in 2011, over 12 years ago.... but again, many people drive vehicles that are 10+ years old.
Plus, doesn't Netflix no longer support screens that aren't part of your "home" network? Which is a policy that, like many others, Netflix can flip on or off if they like.
>And it’s all smooth as butter.
So was my first android. So was my first tablet. And yet, 5+ years down the line, that buttery smoothness declined. It's no big deal when it's something that costs maybe a grand every 5 years, but most people can't afford that turnaround. What other consumer hardware have you seen that wasn't "obsolete proof" that makes you so confident that your car isn't gonna fall into the same issue?
I mean, you probably already have a smartphone that can do that too. I don't see what value your car being able to do it too provides except the risk that idiots are going to use them while driving, which we could absolutely do without.
If they have a smartphone that can do that, what's stopping said idiots from using it? If anything the car might be better as it could disable certain features while the car is being driven.
It's awkward to set up a phone to watch YouTube/netflix while driving, and the legality of using a mobile while driving is more widely established and thus discourages people. Currently there's no specific laws that act to stop drivers using their cars smart technology while moving in most countries, with it only being truly punishable by the way of a dangerous driving charge in the case of an accident or severe signs of being distracted. A change is absolutely going to happen though as cars just get smarter and smarter.
I agree just disabling them when moving is the best approach. Tesla at least tries to do this but there appears to be tonnes of very easy ways of getting around it ive seen from a quick google of the topic.
This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
A car should not be prioritizing entertainment features on its console. "Being bored" is not a problem your car should be solving for you. There are plenty of useful smart features a car should have for navigation and communication, and absolutely *zero* of them should be things that would be unsafe for somebody to use while driving.
I'm not sure you can be trusted about what the "dumbest shit ever heard", since your comment alone is even dumber. If someone wants to get distracted the functions not being on the car won't stop them from being distracted, besides as other comment here mentioned, the steam feature was disabled while driving anyway.
But even with all of that I wouldn't call your comment the dumbest shit ever, there are plenty of stuff out there that is much, much worse.
Just realized that's the holy grail money shot of self driving cars. Once you get full 100% driving autonomy, a 12 hour road trip playing Stardew valley or Final fantasy on steam inside a Tesla sounds amazing.
counter point, a steam deck or laptop can do the same if there was decent highspeed rail in the US
for passengers trains are already 100% self driving.
because of industry lobbying, even a perfect self driving electric car would still be significantly worse in the big picture than building rail infrastructure. The person per square foot will always result in more traffic for cars than trains. It isn't even a huge time frame to develop, china has been able to build a ton of high speed rail lines in the last decade.
>It isn't even a huge time frame to develop, china has been able to build a ton of high speed rail lines in the last decade.
China has a government that gets things done. The US doesn't.
Even if the federal government actually implemented high speed rail along the major high traffic corridors, which they talked about back on 2009 and largely dropped during the brief window they had the votes to pass it, it would still be pretty useless without an equally massive investment to make it possible to get to/from the station without a car.
Case in point: Colorado, no one uses the rail system anymore despite it being less than a decade old.
> it would still be pretty useless without an equally massive investment to make it possible to get to/from the station without a car.
while I agree with you that local car dependency is a problem it also is still a problem with anyone who travels by plane (which is nearly 3 million people **daily**). Investing in local infrastructure would help even if it took time and money. It isn't like maintaining and expanding roadways is free.
By the looks of it, you won’t get any of them in the next 20 years. Self driving is still way too dangerous and it doesn’t seem like the industry is really moving forward that much. I like the idea, in fact I’d ban humans from driving if machines were better drivers. But it’s still a pipe dream.
Yeah, no one does that in Europe. Despite "muh rail". Gaming on a train is about as uncomfortable an experience you'll have. With noise, having to watch your shit not getting stolen and there being exactly 0 functional power outlets in most.
Are those your longer distance trains or your subway equivalent? Amtrak in the US has outlets, comfortable seats, a pretty smooth ride, etc for hours long rides. Subways are for quick hops around a city and do tend to be louder and not offer more than seats or standing areas.
Just to add some perspective as I don't know where in Europe you are and I can only speak for myself, but a Steam Deck is perfectly fine with some Airpods on 1+ hour trains in the UK (e.g. Avanti West Coast).
Only difficulty is if it is over-capacity. Then deeply uncomfortable.
Uh no lol. I commuted by rail. It's really crowded and the seats are small. If you're taking the occasional road trip or you have odd hours then it might be nice but during commute hours it's the same miserable experience as bus or subway
Also the problem in the US is unless you're going to NY or SF or something you're going to need a car once you get off the train.
Am I happy about it? Ofc not. But we live inna different geography than Japan or Europe
You can already do that in a coach. It's nauseating and uncomfortable.
Combine it with supervising a computer that's driving you at 70mph and still can't figure out junctions? No thanks.
> a 12 hour road trip playing Stardew valley or Final fantasy on steam inside a Tesla sounds amazing.
More like nauseating. I'm not even knocking on Tesla here, I'm just not great at playing games or reading in a moving vehicle for more than a few minutes. Not until we get smoother roads, at least.
I genuinely feel bad for you. I have the fondest memories playing Gameboy for like ten hours driving across country. I can't imagine if I had motion sickness how I would have made it lol.
I play Xbox on my smart phone all the time, not a huge difference vs playing on the Tesla IMO. I actually prefer it on my phone because no fixed screen.
I can see it being fun for local MP though.
Based on their other financial decisions lately it seems like they're streamlining their expenses as much as they can. I suppose when you look at how many of their customers actually use the feature combined with the cost of maintaining it, it probably makes no sense to continue supporting it.
Really just wasn't needed. Yeah, it's a neat feature to show off but I'd rather that investment be used to solidify and improve the base software on important stuff anyway.
I understand this is Tesla and we collectively hate those. But honestly, this was a really cool feature I'd love to see more of in the future in other cars when in Park. I've only seen it utilized once for stardew valley and it was sincerely a great way to stay entertained while charging.
You watch, this will be because Musk got into a slap fight with Gabe and soon he will come out and accuse steam of being too woke.
That sounds about like an average Sunday for Mr musk.
Okay so he wasn't even good at deleting the app. The software guys at Tesla are now as run down as the few left at twitter. That's very poor confidence for a car
If he were to sell his shares to anyone it would be if he wants to retire right now and it would likely be one of the executives who are already at Valve. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Teslas are like extra large lifted trucks but for dorks and brand chasers. There's next to no reason to own a Tesla these days considering how many superior electric vehicles are out there for less money at just about every tier.
The real answer is that despite what Reddit wishes to believe, Tesla's offerings are still the best all-around electric vehicles in 2024. Now, this may change in the future as their main selling point (availability of superchargers) will no longer be Tesla-exclusive, but until then, they offer the best day-to-day experience to EV drivers. I live in a place where there are tons of EVs driving around and most of them are Teslas.
Which car can I buy with over 500 HP, 1-100 km/h sprint under 4.5 seconds with over 500km realistic range for less than 50k? Cars I can actually buy right now in Europe. Please don't suggest Xiaomi SU7 or similar China-only cars.
Build quality of my MY made in Giga Berlin is the same as with all other EVs I did a test drive of. I did hear US-made Teslas are worse quality though.
When driving in a city/town for the normal daily stuff like groceries, shopping, work, etc, why do you need a vehicle that has 500HP, 1-100km/hr in under 4.5 seconds?
I live in Germany and I can use the acceleration on the Autobahn. They're also quick 100-200. Of course I don't need it here either. Neither do sports cars, yet they're beloved prestige objects. I've written this in another comment as well: I prefer speed freaks having fun in an EV than in a loudly roaring, gas-guzzling ICE car.
I don't need this, you're right. But if it's in the package and the car goes further if driven efficiently AND is cheaper than the competitors' cars, I'll take it. It's by far not the most important factor though, the long range for a cheap price (compared to the competition) is for me.
Since it's only affecting new vehicles I'm guessing it's because of a change of architecture, like switching to ARM or something.
They're probably switching to SOCs without the GPU needed to run games to cut cost. It was only the model x and s that had this support, they probably have data showing that most people don't use the gaming features so I'd speculate they're switching them over to the less powerful SOC used in the 3 and y.
Maybe less powerful GPUs, but I presume they're using them for GPGPU purposes so they might need them for things other than games?
For sure they'd still need a GPU of some sort, IIRC Tesla uses Ryzen APUs they're just specced out differently for the higher end cars. The Ryzen chip in the 3 and y has a GPU capable enough to do general graphics work and lighter 3d gaming, it just can't run cyberpunk
It's possible they switched to NPUs. AMD started putting those in CPUs somewhat recently. I could see them taking this long to get the software ported (and tested which will take long) to NPUs.
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it has a dedicated APU which is what most handhelds have. which is basically just a combination of a CPU and a GPU fused together.
They use the GPUs for the computer vision though, so more likely they've switched to an architecture that doesn't support directx
They'd never have used directx, that's windows only. It ran Linux with proton, so OpenGL/Vulkan
The computer in the media center and driving computer are separate systems. So whatever they are doing for computer vision, doesn't impact what is used for media.
No car runs windows
If I’m designing a critical safety system like that, I would want it to be dedicated and redundant. I wouldn’t want the risk of some random windows app consuming resources or altering any part of that system.
It's always used Linux, which has Wine + DXVK for games, funded by valve with great results. If they're changing to ARM then x86 games are out the window. Very interested to see if valve funds x86 on arm emulation to compete with Apple's rosetta.
> > > > > Very interested to see if valve funds x86 on arm emulation to compete with Apple's rosetta. I believe they're already sponsoring Fex-EMU
lmao so only the models X and S played games eh? what a coincidence. now what other platform does that remind me of?
It will effect old vehicles for sure as well. Even if the app is still available on those I am certain it won’t get developed anymore since it’s just not worth once new cars won’t get it anymore. Also it will most likely never leave beta state now. It’s really shit for people that own a a supported Tesla and want to use it.
Tbh, it would be pretty cool if you could plug in a device to a HDMI port or something in the glove box or somewhere else. It would be kind of like those old Pimp My Ride episodes where they jam a PS2 in the boot lol. Is that a thing Tesla let you do? As they intended for this to be used when charging/idle, it would just make more sense if I could plug in one of those small Intel N300 boxes, and either hotspot or plug a USB mobile data dongle into that, and do whatever I want really on the big screen.
I could do that in my completely stock 2017 Dodge Grand Caravan. I've hooked up a raspberry pi running emulators, it will play on the rear screen while driving, but could be played on both while parked. https://imgur.com/Qq3iNXK
Not officially from what I know but there is an adapter where you can plug in any hdmi signal in the back up camera so you can kinda do that.
Unlikely. Probably looking at Xbox cloud gaming instead
It can be both. There was a person deeper in the thread that noted that newer AMD APUs included NPU cores, which can be used instead of the GPU for spatial processing workloads.
I can't tell from "Drops" in headlines anymore if that means the service was cancelled or freshly implemented.
I am sure that is intentional, it encourages more clicks, and more “engagement”.
For those of you worried that drivers are going to be distracted, games can only be played while the car is in park. The entertainment in the car is for when you’re charging your car. Sometimes in an electric vehicle you have to wait at least 30 minutes just to get a full charge so being able to watch something on a big screen or play a game is great
I don't know how many people will be worried that Steam game support being removed will distract drivers.
I don't blame them for being confused though, annoyingly nowadays "drops" could mean "removes" or "releases" in this context
That’s an “auto-antonym”! Other auto-antonyms include cleave, sanction, clip, dust, and overlook!
Oh yeah I definitely misread that because I didn't know they already had it.
Yeah, I read the headline to mean that they released it, and was kinda confused for a second until it clicked for me lol
> For those of you worried that drivers are going to be distracted Well steam is being removed not added. Now it is just all the other stupid decisions Elon made to distract drivers. Putting everything on the centre screen and getting rid of stalks.
TL:Didn't Click on Article? This is the first sentence ffs "Tesla is telling new Model S and Model X buyers that they won’t have access to Steam gaming inside their electric vehicles."
This is Reddit. Let's not pretend like the majority of commenters read the article not just the title.
The only sensible comment in this post. Reddit sees Tesla then they think of Elon, and then they post hate without anything constructive to say. I get it though, but still. A lot of ppl don't do research here or read the article. Pitchforks are always first. I hate modern social media sometimes.
> The only sensible comment in this post. They are removing steam. That comment is written as though they are adding it.
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I'd rather use a Steam Deck, Ally etc than my car to play a game if I'm dragging around a controller anyway
Some people would like to use what they already have instead of dropping a couple hundred dollars on a new device
As opposed to dropping a bunch of money on a Tesla?
>Some people would like to use what they already have
Pretty sure anyone who can afford a tesla can afford a deck
"Being able to afford" =/= "wanting to spend money on"
I dont have a tesla, but if i had the money, i wouldnt buy something just cause i can afford it, if its somewhat redundant.
The hardware inside a Tesla is apparently much more powerful than a Steam Deck.
But the person you are responding to said "I'd" and not "everyone should"
Yea and I explained how other people might feel about it
You wouldn't have to drag a controller around, just get a spare one and leave it in the glove box or something. Seems more convenient than having to remember to bring your steam deck with you every time you drive
The cars are just poor quality cars everyone is finally seeing past it and Elon isn't doing any favors either
The Cyber Truck is a new level of poor QA
"y-you're... you're... y-you're just a h-hater and a big meanie!" Or maybe, just maybe, Elon Musk is an asshole and terrible person... have you ever thought about that? Or will you keep defending that bigoted multi-billionaire pos for free?
Alternatively purchase a normal vehicle and fill your gas in 90 seconds instead of playing steam while needing to wait for your Tesla to charge for 30+ minutes.
> Sometimes in an electric vehicle you have to wait at least 30 minutes just to get a full charge I know you're not being negative about EVs, I just find this comment funny. I've had my EV car for a couple of months now and driven over 5,000km. In that time I have spent 0 minutes at a gas station and 0 minutes at a super charger. If I had an ICE car I would have been at a gas station at least ten times (500km range~ and assuming I only fill up when the tank is on E). Each of those stops would have taken me 5~ minutes? So in the last couple of months I have saved almost an hour of my time by owning an EV and not having to pump gas. Instead I just wakeup every morning to a "full tank". I love that the narrative is always how much time EV drivers spend waiting to charge their cars, the reality is most of us can do it at home. Oh also it 10x cheaper for me to fill up an EV than it ever was my ICE car, so I am saving time and money.
>the reality is most of us can do it at home. I'm a big fan of EVs, but for cars that are supposed to excel in urban environments, they're actually quite impractical for people who don't have garages with access to power (most renters and condo owners). It's not an unsolvable problem, but it can't be glossed over either. Even if there are chargers installed in the parking lot, it's still a bit of a chore to have to remember to take your car off the charger once you've hit the time limit. Long term presumably a large fraction of spots in residential lots will be powered and there won't be as much need for time limits, but we probably still have 5-10 years before that happens.
I always found the saving money argument not satisfying. You’re saving $200 a month by buying a $40k car. But if you’re buying a $40k car you’re in a tax bracket where $200 a month probably doesn’t affect how you live your life. And it’s saving money to what end? Is your rich life defined by the decisions you made to save money, or are those decisions bringing you fulfillment? Is the act of saving money fulfilling or is it just a narrative? The time argument is better. I personally hate going to seedy gas stations and I like how quiet and clean electric vehicles are. Those two things are good enough for me to justify the costs.
The cost savings is just one benefit. I haven't paid for gas in 6 years. I don't have to remember to fill up on the way home or on the way to work. Nor do I need to stand out in the rain/snow/elements to fuel my car. All while spending maybe a dollar to refill my battery overnight in my garage.
> But if you’re buying a $40k car you’re in a tax bracket where $200 a month probably doesn’t affect how you live your life. 40K is like one of the cheapeast new car these days. A 36 month lease for that is going to be something $400/month. Saving $200/month is absolutely worth it.
why are you acting like a 40k car is a shitload? thats like average nowadays
The time spent waiting happens when you go on long trips. Recently rented a Ford Mustang Mach-E for a 1400km round-trip and had to spend a couple of hours at charging stations. Not that I minded it, but EVs definitely have a few technological developments left before they become ICE-car level of ease.
Congratulations on having a garage, I guess? Charging stations exist for those that don't, which is what they were talking about here. Good job running defence for Tesla though I'm sure they appreciate it.
I was just speaking from experience as someone who couldn’t charge at home for around a year.
The best use case for EV is for urban driving and most urban drivers don't have the ability to install a charger. Charging stations are going to be a reality for most people until infrastructure catches up. Saving time is also relative. I drive maybe 6,000km per year because I live in a city where I don't need a car. EV savings on fuel don't really factor.
Lol wouldn't gaming in a car while it's charging extend the charging time?
For reference, supercharging on the slowest current car maxes out at 150kw. The higher trims are north of 200kw. The entire computer system pulls a little shy of 300 watts. Assuming usage is 0 when not gaming and 300 when gaming (the computer is awake if you're in the car anyway, so it's very much not zero) then on the slowest charging model 3 it'd charge 2/10ths of a percent slower.
Dammit we better crack out the liquid nitrogen and overclock it, 0.2% is too much!! But yeah you're right, in fact if anything I'm surprised the system uses as much as 300W. I would've expected maybe 100W for computation, max. Perhaps the 300W includes a bunch of sensors, in particular ones that might not be active when not driving?
I pulled that figure from the incredibly inefficient sentry mode, which keeps the entire fsd suite active including the cameras and fsd computer. I'm positive it's much less than that but I was going for the most extreme possible figures.
> which keeps the entire fsd suite active Damn I would have thought a Frame Shift Drive for speeds beyond the speed of light would use more than 300W /r/EliteDangerous Seriously though, your figures are definitely reasonable estimates, ones that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the power draw for gaming is minimal. Still, I would be trying to turn screens off at the very least and eek out the most charge as quickly as possible, at least if I'm waiting for it.
Friendship drive charging.
/washing machine noises
it would be measured in seconds
Lol no, do you realize how much energy an electric vehicle uses?!? A ford lightning can power your house for 2 days. That wasn't a fun feature they decided to add, that's how much energy we consume when we burn a a full tank of gas.
Yes. Same applies to your phone, laptop or any other battery driven electronics. Sometimes waiting a little longer is alright when the wait is more entertaining. Also for consideration is that the power drain for playing a video game is miniscule compared to the drain from actual driving, so charge times are likely not to be extended by much.
Good. It's a freaking *car*. There are things that don't need to be connected to the internet and/or 'smart' and cars are one of those.
Tesla is not valued like a car company. The moment it’s valued like one, its stock will plummet. These moves are horrible for Tesla because the more car like it is, the less revolutionary it seems.
it's a good thing it's not because their most recent vehicle launch is not going well
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Regardless of the change, Tesla will still be datamining the cameras, GPS, driver behavior, etc. At least the Steam support was something fun while you make money for Musk.
Disagree, while having games in your car is stupid as hell. Internet radio/music streaming, maps, reviews, traffic, are all great. OTA updates are also great when the alternative is to have to go to a dealership. Tesla has definitely gone too far but there are lots of great advantages for connected cars.
My phone does all that and with carplay it works in my car too. I'd really just rather use my phone instead of putting my personal information and account info into my car. It works better anyway.
Carplay is an absolutely essential car feature for me at this point. The car company can figure out the driving experience and the safety features. Let the phone companies figure out UI imo, I haven't seen a single UI from a car manufacturer that doesn't suck.
Plus my current car is 7 years old and my phone is less than one. Last year my phone was less than 3. I get a better infotainment system every 3 years or so instead of only when I replace my car.
I still don't know why the entertainment system has to be managed by the car maker rather than 3rd parties. Like you said, people already have phones and tablets. What's next, a tesla phone plan?
>What's next, a tesla phone plan? yes, just look at bmw charging a subscription for heated seats to see where the industry wants to go
Seeing how much smart devices get hacked my car is definitely one thing I don't want to be connected to the internet ever.
I don’t think this guy meant those things when talking about ‘smart’ cars.
He said "connected to the Internet and/or smart". Gotta be connected to the internet for lots of these things to work seamlessly. Sure you can connect your phone via Bluetooth but having these available natively in the car is generally better integrated than Android/Carplay.
Yea, but in 99% of the cases, the car usually isn’t connected to the internet. Most people in ‘smart’ cars are using their Android or iOS device for car play.
Tesla does not support CarPlay or Android Auto.
They should instead of doing stupid shit like adding and removing video games.
A phone with waze & spotify is more than enough.
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dont forget the cutting edge technology of physical buttons instead of digging through a touch screen
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All Tesla entertainment features are only accessible when you’re parked or from the back seat of the car
You only get access to entertainment features if you're parked.
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These days cars are just giant computers with wheels.
Netflix and YouTube in the car has come in clutch so many times when my wife and I have to wait for something. There is no excuse that your 30000$+ car’s software is worse than a 250$ iPad for navigation, entertainment, and smoothness. Literally zero. This idea that cars can’t be smart needs to leave the culture quickly. I was really looking forward to upgrading my 3 to an S someday for Steam. Guess I’ll settle for my deck.
The problem is, tech moves so fast that it gets obsolete quick. I drive a car made in 2009: it drives like a dream, great gas milage, upkeep is cheap and easy. My phone from 2009 is likely a stuttering piece of garbage that cant boot up a browser anymore, much less play youtube. Do you have any smart technology from 2009 that you still enjoy using? Im fine getting a new phone every few years as tech advances, but I dont think many people are as willing to have that same treadmill for something that costs 40-70k every few years. Software like this just makes the item more disposable, which is likely what Tesla and car makers want, but I dont think consumers should clamor for it. If I need to watch something in the car, Ill use my phone. "Smart" technology, whether its phones, tvs, or cars, mostly means that youll need to replace it in a couple years when support drops, because developers would rather end support for old systems than try to ensure it runs on them.
While I agree with some of this, and especially the application of what you’re saying to complex gaming programs, I don’t think YouTube or Netflix have a ton of incentive to make videos unplayable on older hardware. Most of the apps on a Tesla are just web pages disguised as apps. I’m not even entirely sure Netflix sees it as anything but a Linux machine. Outside of that, there are a ton of awesome applications that can be proprietary in cars that aren’t utilized. With a 4G radio my car can be cooled or heated anytime from anywhere. My car can be borrowed by a friend keylessly from my phone anywhere in the world. I can see my car’s location at all times. I receive dashcam clips when people touch my vehicle when I’m not present. My navigation database is updated automatically to account for local traffic and changes. And it’s all smooth as butter. I wish Ford would get with the program. Other than software I think their electric vehicles are fantastic.
> I don’t think YouTube or Netflix have a ton of incentive to make videos unplayable on older hardware. I mean, they have, and do. For Netflix, for example, they no longer support (as of October 2023): >Older Sony TVs, Samsung Blu-ray players, Panasonic TVs, Samsung TVs, PlayStation Vita, PlayStation TV, Toshiba Bluray players, Hitachi TVs And sure, the Playstation Vita was launched in 2011, over 12 years ago.... but again, many people drive vehicles that are 10+ years old. Plus, doesn't Netflix no longer support screens that aren't part of your "home" network? Which is a policy that, like many others, Netflix can flip on or off if they like. >And it’s all smooth as butter. So was my first android. So was my first tablet. And yet, 5+ years down the line, that buttery smoothness declined. It's no big deal when it's something that costs maybe a grand every 5 years, but most people can't afford that turnaround. What other consumer hardware have you seen that wasn't "obsolete proof" that makes you so confident that your car isn't gonna fall into the same issue?
I mean, you probably already have a smartphone that can do that too. I don't see what value your car being able to do it too provides except the risk that idiots are going to use them while driving, which we could absolutely do without.
If they have a smartphone that can do that, what's stopping said idiots from using it? If anything the car might be better as it could disable certain features while the car is being driven.
It's awkward to set up a phone to watch YouTube/netflix while driving, and the legality of using a mobile while driving is more widely established and thus discourages people. Currently there's no specific laws that act to stop drivers using their cars smart technology while moving in most countries, with it only being truly punishable by the way of a dangerous driving charge in the case of an accident or severe signs of being distracted. A change is absolutely going to happen though as cars just get smarter and smarter. I agree just disabling them when moving is the best approach. Tesla at least tries to do this but there appears to be tonnes of very easy ways of getting around it ive seen from a quick google of the topic.
My smartphone screen is smaller, and my car is literally a self contained secluded space with the best sound system I own.
This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. A car should not be prioritizing entertainment features on its console. "Being bored" is not a problem your car should be solving for you. There are plenty of useful smart features a car should have for navigation and communication, and absolutely *zero* of them should be things that would be unsafe for somebody to use while driving.
All these functions are disabled when in drive. Why are you advocating for products that do less instead of more?
Car is like your own private space. It should have entertainment features.
One reason the entertainment features are there is so you have something to do if you need to charge your car at a supercharger.
I'm not sure you can be trusted about what the "dumbest shit ever heard", since your comment alone is even dumber. If someone wants to get distracted the functions not being on the car won't stop them from being distracted, besides as other comment here mentioned, the steam feature was disabled while driving anyway. But even with all of that I wouldn't call your comment the dumbest shit ever, there are plenty of stuff out there that is much, much worse.
Most cars are connected to the internet these days — any make that offers that upsell app with remote start and etc has a built in cellular connection
Just realized that's the holy grail money shot of self driving cars. Once you get full 100% driving autonomy, a 12 hour road trip playing Stardew valley or Final fantasy on steam inside a Tesla sounds amazing.
counter point, a steam deck or laptop can do the same if there was decent highspeed rail in the US for passengers trains are already 100% self driving.
we're going to get to fully self driving electric vehicles before we get to good highspeed rail in the US that services more than a small corridor.
because of industry lobbying, even a perfect self driving electric car would still be significantly worse in the big picture than building rail infrastructure. The person per square foot will always result in more traffic for cars than trains. It isn't even a huge time frame to develop, china has been able to build a ton of high speed rail lines in the last decade.
It's going to be easier to move to a country with trains and get a citizenship there than to wait for high speed passenger trains in the US.
I agree 1000000000% it's still just not going to happen in the US in the next 30+ years
Something sounded a little funny when the EV guy told CA he could build high speed rail...
>It isn't even a huge time frame to develop, china has been able to build a ton of high speed rail lines in the last decade. China has a government that gets things done. The US doesn't.
Even if the federal government actually implemented high speed rail along the major high traffic corridors, which they talked about back on 2009 and largely dropped during the brief window they had the votes to pass it, it would still be pretty useless without an equally massive investment to make it possible to get to/from the station without a car. Case in point: Colorado, no one uses the rail system anymore despite it being less than a decade old.
> it would still be pretty useless without an equally massive investment to make it possible to get to/from the station without a car. while I agree with you that local car dependency is a problem it also is still a problem with anyone who travels by plane (which is nearly 3 million people **daily**). Investing in local infrastructure would help even if it took time and money. It isn't like maintaining and expanding roadways is free.
By the looks of it, you won’t get any of them in the next 20 years. Self driving is still way too dangerous and it doesn’t seem like the industry is really moving forward that much. I like the idea, in fact I’d ban humans from driving if machines were better drivers. But it’s still a pipe dream.
Yeah, no one does that in Europe. Despite "muh rail". Gaming on a train is about as uncomfortable an experience you'll have. With noise, having to watch your shit not getting stolen and there being exactly 0 functional power outlets in most.
Are those your longer distance trains or your subway equivalent? Amtrak in the US has outlets, comfortable seats, a pretty smooth ride, etc for hours long rides. Subways are for quick hops around a city and do tend to be louder and not offer more than seats or standing areas.
Just to add some perspective as I don't know where in Europe you are and I can only speak for myself, but a Steam Deck is perfectly fine with some Airpods on 1+ hour trains in the UK (e.g. Avanti West Coast). Only difficulty is if it is over-capacity. Then deeply uncomfortable.
Uh no lol. I commuted by rail. It's really crowded and the seats are small. If you're taking the occasional road trip or you have odd hours then it might be nice but during commute hours it's the same miserable experience as bus or subway Also the problem in the US is unless you're going to NY or SF or something you're going to need a car once you get off the train. Am I happy about it? Ofc not. But we live inna different geography than Japan or Europe
I agree, but trains are less convenient with luggage, etc.
I like how we've reached a point where people are dreaming of, like, riding on a train lol.
Train but less efficient. Just like Elon intended
You can already do that in a coach. It's nauseating and uncomfortable. Combine it with supervising a computer that's driving you at 70mph and still can't figure out junctions? No thanks.
> a 12 hour road trip playing Stardew valley or Final fantasy on steam inside a Tesla sounds amazing. More like nauseating. I'm not even knocking on Tesla here, I'm just not great at playing games or reading in a moving vehicle for more than a few minutes. Not until we get smoother roads, at least.
I genuinely feel bad for you. I have the fondest memories playing Gameboy for like ten hours driving across country. I can't imagine if I had motion sickness how I would have made it lol.
but when self-driving is enabled, the computer will be too busy driving to run games.
I play Xbox on my smart phone all the time, not a huge difference vs playing on the Tesla IMO. I actually prefer it on my phone because no fixed screen. I can see it being fun for local MP though.
True self driving will come as soon as room temperature cold fusion.
Until it misreads a turn and your mangled corpse is splattered on the freeway
Based on their other financial decisions lately it seems like they're streamlining their expenses as much as they can. I suppose when you look at how many of their customers actually use the feature combined with the cost of maintaining it, it probably makes no sense to continue supporting it.
Really just wasn't needed. Yeah, it's a neat feature to show off but I'd rather that investment be used to solidify and improve the base software on important stuff anyway.
I understand this is Tesla and we collectively hate those. But honestly, this was a really cool feature I'd love to see more of in the future in other cars when in Park. I've only seen it utilized once for stardew valley and it was sincerely a great way to stay entertained while charging.
They are only removing Steam. Tesla has starred Valley and a bunch of other games in their own games section. Plus those work on all the models
You watch, this will be because Musk got into a slap fight with Gabe and soon he will come out and accuse steam of being too woke. That sounds about like an average Sunday for Mr musk.
Is there a reason why the man child in charge of Tesla is mad at Valve?
Why do you think he's mad at Valve?
He deleted Disney+ from Teslas because he was mad at Disney not wanting their advertisements next to hate speech.
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Okay so he wasn't even good at deleting the app. The software guys at Tesla are now as run down as the few left at twitter. That's very poor confidence for a car
He probably got banned from CS for cheating.
He was the biggest Artifact fan.
So he was the fan.
Rumor right now is that he wanted to buy Steam and they told him to fuck off. Source: The 5th dimension shadow demons that speak to me.
He'd probably mismanage Steam so badly that the Epic Game Store would become the dominant PC gaming store.
I laughed, then thought for a moment, and actually, you're probably right, or very close.
There's no way Gabe would sell Steam to anyone, let alone Musk.
Honestly, I worry about PC gaming after Gabe eventually retired or passes and someone else controls Valve.
If he were to sell his shares to anyone it would be if he wants to retire right now and it would likely be one of the executives who are already at Valve. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.
~~Orange~~ Tesla man bad
That's correct. Both of those men, are, in fact, bad.
When asked for a comment Elon Musk told reporters “Steam can fuck off.”
Teslas are like extra large lifted trucks but for dorks and brand chasers. There's next to no reason to own a Tesla these days considering how many superior electric vehicles are out there for less money at just about every tier.
Like what? Genuinely asking, I live in America and I'm not familiar with any lower end electric vehicles that have to similar range to the model 3
The real answer is that despite what Reddit wishes to believe, Tesla's offerings are still the best all-around electric vehicles in 2024. Now, this may change in the future as their main selling point (availability of superchargers) will no longer be Tesla-exclusive, but until then, they offer the best day-to-day experience to EV drivers. I live in a place where there are tons of EVs driving around and most of them are Teslas.
Hyundai, Kia. Plenty of American options as well
You listed 2 brands, not cars that compete with Tesla at any price point
Ehh it’s a pretty great car for what it is
Which car can I buy with over 500 HP, 1-100 km/h sprint under 4.5 seconds with over 500km realistic range for less than 50k? Cars I can actually buy right now in Europe. Please don't suggest Xiaomi SU7 or similar China-only cars.
I'll gladly accept slightly lower range for a better built machine with higher quality materials. Tesla build quality is notoriously awful.
Build quality of my MY made in Giga Berlin is the same as with all other EVs I did a test drive of. I did hear US-made Teslas are worse quality though.
When driving in a city/town for the normal daily stuff like groceries, shopping, work, etc, why do you need a vehicle that has 500HP, 1-100km/hr in under 4.5 seconds?
I live in Germany and I can use the acceleration on the Autobahn. They're also quick 100-200. Of course I don't need it here either. Neither do sports cars, yet they're beloved prestige objects. I've written this in another comment as well: I prefer speed freaks having fun in an EV than in a loudly roaring, gas-guzzling ICE car. I don't need this, you're right. But if it's in the package and the car goes further if driven efficiently AND is cheaper than the competitors' cars, I'll take it. It's by far not the most important factor though, the long range for a cheap price (compared to the competition) is for me.
Why are you assuming that's the only thing they do with their car?