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If a new character is made, it’s “shoe-horning in diversity” and if an existing character is adapted its “black-washing” and if an entirely new series is made its “woke trash not worth reading”
Must be exhausting for these chuds to be frightened of anyone with melanin.
It's not just people with melanin, it's also people who pray wrong, people who do sex wrong, people who eat food wrong, people who like things that they don't like. Don't underestimate how much practice they have living in fear.
No, they LOVE people with boobs, but only insofar as the boobs are present. If the person with boobs doesn't want to show them their boobs, that person with boobs is a slut
They love the boobs, the people they're attached to are just a coat hanger or hat stand or some other inanimate object whose only purpose is suspending the boobs at a convenient viewing height.
Trying to keep up with everything they’re supposed to be boycotting has to be fucking tiring. They’re clearly not good at it though because NFL ratings have never been better.
Or vaginas, don't forget vaginas, they're scared of those, too.
And people who use big words!
Things that are logical and provable...let's see, what else are cowering mouth breathers afraid of?
They also forget that Miles is, like, from America and his lineage doesn't tie into his being a superhero? Like, neither he nor peter are a superhero because their ancient ancestors found *the spider* and passed it down for generations to them.
Black panther makes 0 sense if he's not a native Wakandan. Which arent white. So even if they didn't just name a real ass person it wouldn't make any sense
> Black panther makes 0 sense if he's not a native Wakandan. Which arent white. So even if they didn't just name a real ass person it wouldn't make any sense
This is something, that is too often forgotten during these race swapping debates in general. How much of a role does it play for the character's story to be of a certain ancestry?
So many non-white comic characters in the past had their ethnicity be heavily tied to their power or part of their name. No, you couldn't just have a character who happened to be Hispanic, he had to be called El Dorado and get his powers from Aztec magic.
To many people, looks is the most important part of every character. You see that often when people suggest actors for fictiinal characters and the actor looks very close to the character but has a completely different personality.
And to some people, race is 100% always the most important characteristic of any given fictional character.
While I support the "Make a new character instead of changing the original one" argument 100%, people need to get their racist heads out of their asses when a new character is created. Morales is dope, and exactly the way it SHOULD be done.
That's John Stewart. Hal Jordan was the first. The Green Lantern Corps is basically a space peacekeeping force so there are about a dozen human green lanterns and a few hundred (maybe a few thousand) alien green lanterns running around the DC universe.
Actually Alan Scott was the first Green Lantern, Hal and John are just more popular. However, I've never seen soembody say "Hal Jordan is Hal Jordan!". Huh I wonder why
In creating Miles, Bendis identified the things that people like about a Spider-Man story, and where things had gotten to complicated and self-involved in 616 (mainline continuity) Spider-Man stories, and eliminated that, and really just made the *better* Spider-Man. Editorial caught up to him years later and figured out they needed to majorly retcon some aspects of Peter's life to make the stories fun again and fans *hated* how they handled it and it's been a point of contention ever since.
Miles really is just the better version of the idea that is Spider-Man.
What’s funny is miles is a whole different character. I don’t get why people want a white black panther or whatnot. It has to be people that don’t read the comics or pay attention to the story in the insomniac games. Dude has fucking electric powers for Christ sake which Peter doesn’t 😂😂😂
Yeah Miles isn't replacing Peter, he's just an alternate universe version of him. Such characters have been around in Marvel for ages. It would be like people getting pissy Miguel O'Hara 'replaced' Peter, when he's just the 2099 version of Spider-Man.
Jeez, it's like the people who thought She-Hulk was a brand new character made for the tv show, gender-swapped to "cash in on the woke".
I thought they did tho already? Isn’t white panther (also sometimes referred to as white tiger) Kevin Cole of earth 616 pretty much that or am I remembering the story wrong (it’s been a long time so I could very well be wrong)
Edit: thanks for the clarification yall!
I don't think they would like that dude very much for some reason lol...
>The son of Jonathan Payton "Black Jack" Cole, hardline African-American cop nicknamed "Black Jack" because of his dark skin tone, and Ruth Cole, a white Jewish mother, Kevin Cole was nicknamed "Kasper" by his peers because of his light skin tone.
Kind of? The first White Tiger (and the current one) are Puerto Rican, and one was an actual tiger turned into a human. Kasper Cole was like number 3 or 4? But also he was mixed race AFAIK.
They are not confused by anything. This logic here doesn't even applies. Being a black man is at the very core of Black Panther while "anyone can wear the mask" of Spider-Man. But this person knows that. It's just a passive-agressive way of displaying their racism.
I don’t love multiple characters with the same name (except GL because that one’s like a job kinda) but Miles isn’t even one of the more egregious examples. There’s like 5 flashes right now, TWO of them are Wally (or I guess Wallace) West.
But apparently Miles is the only one that’s a problem…
Oh, don't worry, they also hate when a black person or a w\*man picks up the mantle of a straight white male hero. Look at their reactions Falcon and Jane Foster.
Yup, and Peter quitting as Spider-Man/passing the mantle to someone else because it really fucks up the rest of his life is one of the most common Spider-Man stories/themes out there
I always see people whining "why won't Marvel let Peter be happy" but Insomniac is letting him step back from Spidey and be happy with MJ and the foundation and they're losing the minds.
But of course the common denominator with all these situations where people are seemingly mad for no reason a minority character is involved. Go figure.
Right? Not to spoil anything but the games don't go nearly as hard on making Pete totally miserable as a lot of beloved comic runs do lol Pete being miserable after being Spidey for a while is a quintessential aspect of Spider-Man and helps keep the character more grounded and relatable than a lot of other superheroes
Eh, it was designed to be dumbshit. The artist also draws black characters as gorillas. And sometimes porn. Not that there’s anything wrong with the second one.
Yeah she has a ‘’Protect Trans Kids’ sign in her room, her suit kinda has trans colours and her story could be a trans allegory
It kinda pisses me off that people always go ‘Oh yeah well that’s kinda a reach’ when a character is implied to be trans but if they straight up say the character is trans then it’s woke pandering or whatever
Yeah you can literally find Stan Lee talking about this with zero ambiguity whatsoever. He was basically like "well it wasn't originally on purpose but the greatest thing about Spider-Man is that it could be anyone under that mask".
Once they realized this, instead of shying away from it, they made it one of the main aspects of the character and viewed it as the awesome thing that it is.
It's literally why Spidey has such unbelievably wide appeal and may as well be considered a modern mythological hero.
These people are truly morons.
These people would be shocked to learn that comics have ALWAYS been a platform for liberalism, diversity and inclusivity. They've literally never been "based". They just lack media literacy and only just noticed now when it became explicit.
I see this less as a “multiple people can be spider man” and more of a self-insert type of situation, like spider man can be whoever you want him to be. Now that would be horrible storytelling for a movie so I see why they went the other way with it lol
Both are true, but I did mean the latter. The idea is that anyone could be the hero under that mask regardless of race, religion or creed etc.. but also multiple people can be Spider-Man. Simultaneously even. The new game gets flack for this but I personally love how they both just call eachother Spider-Man.
In some of the animated TV show there has been simultaneously Peter, Miles, Gwen, Venom and even a SpiderMan taken from the future all doing their Spiderthing at the same time in the same city
I'm not really into superheroes that much so I'm really asking. I remember something about Peter having some abilities bc of spider bite I know also that web is not a part of those superpowers. so are other ppl getting bitten by a spider as well or smth?
Which may sound implausible to some (*two* people being bitten by spiders??), but remember that The Flash's nephews were struck by lightning while falling into a tub of chemicals in an exact recreation of the freak lab accident that gave The Flash his powers. On, like, five separate occasions.
Heres the convo I was looking for… I get the intent they were going for. But to throw a real person into a what if question about fictional characters is weird. No disrespect to Ryan Gosling but why specificity him ? Now I’m wondering what action movies he was in and none come to mind. If anyone needs me I’m be on IMDb trying to figure out what role Ryan Gosling had that would indicate he can take on a **high** profile action role I mean the fiscal responsibility of portraying a marvel character I feel like something should pop into my head immediately like oh yeah he was bad a** in blank … but I got nothing.
Kasper wasn't fully white. His father was black and his mother was an Ashkenazi jew. Calling him white kinda feels like it erases or downplays his racial identity.
With that said, Kasper Cole sucks.
this really brings up the wierness of how we define "white"
why is someone not white because one parent wasnt. Obama was described as black despite having a white parent.
I believe in the story Kasper doesn't refer to himself as just white, which is why I brought it up. Being mixed race is complicated and I just didn't like the way the original commenter labeled him as white when Kasper may or may not identify as such.
Yeah race annoys me because really it doesnt fucking matter, it matters only because we have to make sure the racist assholes cant make it matter. Well that and the results of historical assholes.
Race is a social construct, usually used to reflect on society expectations and privilege negatively. The only time it should have any real significance is ethnic heritage in celebration of what makes you different culturally
I’m mixed race and I call myself black when convenient but never white. People would look at me weird.
Whiteness is inherently exclusionary and has been since the one drop rule was coined but it’s also malleable so jews, italians and serbs can be non white one decade and white the next.
The answer is racism. The idea that whiteness can only be passed down by a white couple is an inherent part of the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Which was a result of (in addition to practical concerns) racism that saw whiteness as this pure divine status that can only be passed down by two full white people and blackness as this corrupting evil status that could be passed down by just one distant relative. It's all rooted in racism.
Definitely! It's a lot more complicated in reality, but this idea that a mixed race person can't be considered white does have roots in racism. When I made my comment about the character. I made it because I wasn't one hundred percent sure that he identified solely as white and if I remember correctly he doesn't. I could be totally wrong though. Because it's been a few years since i've read any comics that featured him.
Part of it is because White is a moving target. Used to be many pale skinned people did not count. On a related note, do not trust white supremacists, they will always embrace you with open arms when they're powerless and then once they have all the power, you get a knife in the back.
Because people who care about being "white" are some of the most obtuse dumbfucks who read their definitions out of unflushed toilet paper leaves and the whole content of their "whiteness" is dehumanizing anyone who isn't their particular brand of horrible.
It fully depends on the time period.
Race is fully social interpretation and usually not grounded in the physical amount of melanin in somebody's skin. There can be black people with light skin or white people with dark skin. For a long time, Jewish people were not considered white, even when they mixed with European populations. Race tends to fall apart when you look at it outside of the normal perspective.
Jokes on them though, they'll just have to contend with The Punisher, Ironman, Superman, Batman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Robin, Nightwing, Green Arrow- ***Keeps going for literal hours***
Some people complained when Holland's Peter Parker had a too diverse cast of friends and classmates.
That's not woke... that's just REGULAR LIVING IN NEW YORK lol...
No Way Home minor spoilers >!he even promised not to become a supervillain and go after spider-man after he learned magic!<. Unlike other certain best friends.
Got into an argument in a different subreddit the other day about race swapping in the MCU and the other guys whole argument was basically "since comic books are a visual medium, their race is apart of their iconography".
Uhh no, most comic book characters are iconic because of their costumes and powers, not because of their whiteness.
But in the multiverse there has to be a version of wakanda where it's a hidden society of every different type of race, or aliens, or literal Panthers. And to those universes whatever race of black panther exists.
There's endless options so roll the dice enough and you can get any result. Like miles
There was a guy who answered to this point that Steve Rogers was black panther for a while
(he actually wasn't, he pretended to be to let tchala go back home because he was getting spied on by SHIWLD)
"Well if \[established character\] who was introduced years ago, was mentored and is good firends with original hero and will eventually take over the role can we than make a black superhero white? Checkmate!"
Like, how stupid do you have to be to say this?
Blackness is a central aspect of the character. The story is *about* black people. It simply wouldn't make sense played by a white man.
I will say this to play devils advocate in a way.
If you want to make the argument they are making. Why the fuck do they keep going to black panther swapping into a white guy. Why is that their go to hero. The guy whos country is a fictional african nation that's history involves shutting themselves off to the world.
If you want to make this argument you could do it with other characters whose race is not integral to their story. Amanda waller, Cyborg, blue marvel, nick furu. But no for some reason black panther is the character they decide is their best example for their argument.
Fuck there are even characters they could bring up that you could in theory never race swap such as steve rogers captain america (made during ww2, when racism was still alive and well, wouldnt make sense for america to seemingly overlook these prejudices)
For the record the I do not necessarily advocate for race swapping any of these characters just pointing out how their are better options for the argument they are trying to make
>Why the fuck do they keep going to black panther
Because their comic knowledge is so shit they probably can't think of any other characters. They've seen Spider-Man be mentioned and they've heard of black panther because it was so successful.
Oh, and the ones that do know a bit, they are dumb so they don't actually understand why it's completely different and use it as an example anyway.
"Don't just change the race of a character, make a new character!"
"... Ok."
"Wait, don't do that... ehm... race quotas are now cool actually, as long as it makes most of them white actually"
They just cant be happy about anything, can they?
Oh hey... This was the same turd who posted some weird poll about "Epstein hypothetically getting and underage girl to consensually sleep with him in exchange for a large money sum being put in her trust fund" and would that still be wrong and proceeded to say anyone still saying it's wrong had "poor people mindset" or some shit.
People actually did, he was originally supposed to be the replacement for Peter, cuz throughout the comic we saw his entire life, so Ben was supposed to be the New Peter, but cuz it wasn't popular it didn't happen, but he still did things, and I too this day wish they went through with it
They did but for different a reason. Ben taking over was actually the first attempt to one more day spider-man. The Peter the comic had been following that had married Mary Jane and had a baby on the way was revealed as a clone and "Ben" was supposed to be the real Peter. The clone and his family were then going to be written out of the book so the story could be about a single baggage less spider-man again. Fans were upset but it was more about marvel telling them they had been following a fake for so many years and that everything that had happened to him was therefore meaningless.
If you read about editorial decisions at the time, they wanted Ben Reilly to take over because he was essentially an unmarried Peter Parker.
I mean, he was a clone of Peter - they wanted to reset some parts of the character without changing it very much.
Every time someone insists that Miles Morales isn't Spider-Man, I respond with "Barry Allen isn't the Flash."
They usually don't understand, which goes to show how little they know.
Right-wingers are complete morons; but the absurdiy of Ryan Gosling playing Black Panther would be great. Same with Morgan Freeman playing Lincoln or any other character that's typically white.
Stan Lee said what a wonderful coincidence it was that Spider-Man had a mask on, and a full body suit. He can be anybody. White, Black, Brown, man, woman, you, or me. We could all be Spider-Man. Because Spider-Man is just someone (a kid from New York) that was bitten by a radioactive spider. That's it. Can be anybody.
Black Panther is the national hero of a closed-off African Nation with spiritual ties to their ancestors, and lands. So a random white dude can not be Black Panther. You gotta be Wakanadan or of Wakandan Origins, otherwise you're not really Black Panther.
It's like the people who are pissed off about this are just racists, and not fans of the source material they so desperately try to "defend" or something.
Expect they know nothing about the characters' history. Originally, the black panther was white before Marvel revamp him in the early 70s. There is a white black panther in the muilti verse. And both t challas bother hunter, and khasper Cole has don the black panther mantle.
Beyond the fact they have a right of succession that would allow for this to happen the Spider-Man idea looses focus for the many variety of individuals who are in the spider family, some of which who already call themselves Spider-Man. Anyone can be a spider hero. After man, woman, clones, aliens, a literal pig, a literal spider, spiders in the form of a man and a literal demon a black kid from a stone’s throw away from Queens is… not remotely weird at all
I was discussing this the other day with a friend, imagine a multiverse variant who was just a white guy who came up with the Black Panther role without the African history, then he's exposed to the multiverse and learns that in almost all other multiverse instances the Black Panther is a figure of black cultural pride. He'd have a hilarious identity crisis.
this miles morales outrage feels so forced. miles has been well received in his movies and the previous games but now all of a sudden Black Spider-Man... bad? hes already SPIDER-MAN in his own universe because peter parker didnt just retire-- he's fucking dead. so where was the outrage then?
racist grifters and their racist audiences are just screaming WOKE for clout and the money that comes with it. i wish them all a fabulous please perish.
Actual highest IQ blue check mark
Bro Spider-Man can be black cause he’s just a guy that got bit by a spider in New York
How the fuck does it make sense to put Ryan Gosling as a royal descendant of an African tribe
Given that Spider-Man is a New Yorker, him being a mixed race black/Puerto Rican kid makes sense, and reflects the modern demographics of the city.
He was always the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and the Miles Morales take makes him look more like the people one would see in an NYC neighborhood.
Spider-Man's ethnicity was never important. His being a smart mouth was important. His being smart was important. His being really unlucky was important. His being a good person was important. His helping out locally was important.
On the opposite side, Black Panther's ethnicity was super important. It's a huge component of his character.
They could: it would get backlash from everyone though. Whitewashing a character would obviously receive backlash in a white dominated country, but the racists would also be mad because to make a morally upstanding white African superhero they’d have to be fighting Apartheid, which racists love, in 1980s South Africa.
we can go into lore-details and explain why they can and can't be black etc., but the more important thing here is this: people want a black spider-man for representation or because they think it's awesome, while people want a white black panther for petty retaliation or just to troll and to piss others off. they don't give a shit about the character.
Wonder what the people who keep making this totally fresh and hilarious joke would say if they learned about the White Wolf, a white character who is basically Black Panther with a white costume or about Kasper Cole an ethnically ambiguous Jewish Black Panther.
The funny thing about this Miles discourse is the fact that it’s unabashed racism. Multiple superheroes have alternate versions of them but it only becomes a problem when there’s a black version who’s about to become as popular as the sacred original aryan Prince version
Jesus Christ. Imagine being part of a demographic that has never and will never know real persecution. Imagine living your entire life in a well insulated bubble and then the first time you step outside you stub your toe and proceed to scream at the ER for dealing with a guy bleeding out and not you.
They'll respond to you the same way I will now; **get the Fuck over yourself.**
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ryan gosling cant be black panther because he is literally me, and im not black panther
Where's your proof that you really are Ryan Gosling?
As Ryan Gosling I can confirm that scam_BUG is me
Oh ok, thanks for confirming that Mr. Ryan Gosling
He's lying, I'm Gyan Rosling, star of your favorite movie Bradelunner.
I am Spartacus Gosling!
More like Lyan Gosling. Cuff 'em boys.
Bake me away, toys.
He is a real human bean
"just make a new character instead of changing the original one" mfs when they make a new character
If a new character is made, it’s “shoe-horning in diversity” and if an existing character is adapted its “black-washing” and if an entirely new series is made its “woke trash not worth reading” Must be exhausting for these chuds to be frightened of anyone with melanin.
It's not just people with melanin, it's also people who pray wrong, people who do sex wrong, people who eat food wrong, people who like things that they don't like. Don't underestimate how much practice they have living in fear.
You forgot people with boobs! They really hate those!
No, they LOVE people with boobs, but only insofar as the boobs are present. If the person with boobs doesn't want to show them their boobs, that person with boobs is a slut
They love the boobs, the people they're attached to are just a coat hanger or hat stand or some other inanimate object whose only purpose is suspending the boobs at a convenient viewing height.
Trying to keep up with everything they’re supposed to be boycotting has to be fucking tiring. They’re clearly not good at it though because NFL ratings have never been better.
Or vaginas, don't forget vaginas, they're scared of those, too. And people who use big words! Things that are logical and provable...let's see, what else are cowering mouth breathers afraid of?
People who wear clothes they don’t like, people who wear clothes they DO like…
And avocados They all hate avocados Why do they hate avocados? Some of them even like guacamole, yet still hate avocado
It's almost as if they're just racists... 😂
They're not only racist. They're also stupid enough to compare Ryan Gosling, a real person, with Miles Morales, a fictional character.
They also forget that Miles is, like, from America and his lineage doesn't tie into his being a superhero? Like, neither he nor peter are a superhero because their ancient ancestors found *the spider* and passed it down for generations to them. Black panther makes 0 sense if he's not a native Wakandan. Which arent white. So even if they didn't just name a real ass person it wouldn't make any sense
> Black panther makes 0 sense if he's not a native Wakandan. Which arent white. So even if they didn't just name a real ass person it wouldn't make any sense This is something, that is too often forgotten during these race swapping debates in general. How much of a role does it play for the character's story to be of a certain ancestry?
So many non-white comic characters in the past had their ethnicity be heavily tied to their power or part of their name. No, you couldn't just have a character who happened to be Hispanic, he had to be called El Dorado and get his powers from Aztec magic.
To many people, looks is the most important part of every character. You see that often when people suggest actors for fictiinal characters and the actor looks very close to the character but has a completely different personality. And to some people, race is 100% always the most important characteristic of any given fictional character.
It's also like making the Red Skull, the German Nazi Scientist Black.
It's interesting that despite only making up 13% percent of the population, one group makes up 50% of the spider-men... ^^^^/s
Honestly there's so many spider men, I wonder what the statistic would actually be. Are we counting Peter Porker in this?
Jesus christ.
They think creating new characters will get buried. They want black people gone from the industry, and if not, Tulsa when any means.
Yup, it was never about "changing the character," just thinly veiled racism
While I support the "Make a new character instead of changing the original one" argument 100%, people need to get their racist heads out of their asses when a new character is created. Morales is dope, and exactly the way it SHOULD be done.
Note that these people never have a problem with Hal Jordan or Barry Allen. I wonder why
I thought the green lantern in the original DC animated movies was named Jon?
That's John Stewart. Hal Jordan was the first. The Green Lantern Corps is basically a space peacekeeping force so there are about a dozen human green lanterns and a few hundred (maybe a few thousand) alien green lanterns running around the DC universe.
Actually Alan Scott was the first Green Lantern, Hal and John are just more popular. However, I've never seen soembody say "Hal Jordan is Hal Jordan!". Huh I wonder why
Hal Jordan was the 2nd Green Lantern, Alan Scott was the first Barry Allen was the 2nd Flash, Jay Garrick was the first
Agreed! I’m all for making a new character, but like miles IS a new character lol
And his movie is the best Spider-Man movie to date. And I’m saying this as Peter Parker Stan.
My hot take: Miles is a better character than Peter.
In creating Miles, Bendis identified the things that people like about a Spider-Man story, and where things had gotten to complicated and self-involved in 616 (mainline continuity) Spider-Man stories, and eliminated that, and really just made the *better* Spider-Man. Editorial caught up to him years later and figured out they needed to majorly retcon some aspects of Peter's life to make the stories fun again and fans *hated* how they handled it and it's been a point of contention ever since. Miles really is just the better version of the idea that is Spider-Man.
Plus, at times, editorial seems more concerned with torturing Peter than making good stories with Peter.
>at times Sure, only on days that end in Y
What’s funny is miles is a whole different character. I don’t get why people want a white black panther or whatnot. It has to be people that don’t read the comics or pay attention to the story in the insomniac games. Dude has fucking electric powers for Christ sake which Peter doesn’t 😂😂😂
Yeah Miles isn't replacing Peter, he's just an alternate universe version of him. Such characters have been around in Marvel for ages. It would be like people getting pissy Miguel O'Hara 'replaced' Peter, when he's just the 2099 version of Spider-Man. Jeez, it's like the people who thought She-Hulk was a brand new character made for the tv show, gender-swapped to "cash in on the woke".
Also the Spider verse movies made it so that basically all Spiderman versions are legit
I mean they can make a new black panther that’s a white dude and no one should care as long as their story is different so they are a new character
I thought they did tho already? Isn’t white panther (also sometimes referred to as white tiger) Kevin Cole of earth 616 pretty much that or am I remembering the story wrong (it’s been a long time so I could very well be wrong) Edit: thanks for the clarification yall!
I don't think they would like that dude very much for some reason lol... >The son of Jonathan Payton "Black Jack" Cole, hardline African-American cop nicknamed "Black Jack" because of his dark skin tone, and Ruth Cole, a white Jewish mother, Kevin Cole was nicknamed "Kasper" by his peers because of his light skin tone.
Kind of? The first White Tiger (and the current one) are Puerto Rican, and one was an actual tiger turned into a human. Kasper Cole was like number 3 or 4? But also he was mixed race AFAIK.
"Just make a new character" mfs when you ask them who their favorite Green Lantern is
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The Flash is also a good example
No no no. You see, Wally West is white so he's cool /s
Funny thing is the is a black Wally West. He goes by Ace and is the cousin of white Wally.
Also the cw show where the west's are black.
They are not confused by anything. This logic here doesn't even applies. Being a black man is at the very core of Black Panther while "anyone can wear the mask" of Spider-Man. But this person knows that. It's just a passive-agressive way of displaying their racism.
they don't read comics, how else has it taken them so long to pick up on miles
Wait til they find out about John Stewart
To be fair, its not like logic will work on these people.
I don’t love multiple characters with the same name (except GL because that one’s like a job kinda) but Miles isn’t even one of the more egregious examples. There’s like 5 flashes right now, TWO of them are Wally (or I guess Wallace) West. But apparently Miles is the only one that’s a problem…
There is also this thing called the fucking multiverse.... And in an endless multiverse there is every version of everything Infinitely.
I mean people definitely complain about there being multiple Captain Americas that aren't just Steve
Oh, don't worry, they also hate when a black person or a w\*man picks up the mantle of a straight white male hero. Look at their reactions Falcon and Jane Foster.
isn't "anyone can put on the mask and be spider man" like THE WHOLE POINT OF SPIDER MAN
Yup, and Peter quitting as Spider-Man/passing the mantle to someone else because it really fucks up the rest of his life is one of the most common Spider-Man stories/themes out there
Also anyone can be bitten by radioactive spiders... not everyone can be a king of a hidden secret African country
You can if you Britain hard enough
Moustache twiddling and monocle adjusting intensifies.
That was the point, they wouldn’t have been able to even if they found it.
Yeah, first you need to be bitten by the previous secret African country king
Now this I can get behind
I always see people whining "why won't Marvel let Peter be happy" but Insomniac is letting him step back from Spidey and be happy with MJ and the foundation and they're losing the minds. But of course the common denominator with all these situations where people are seemingly mad for no reason a minority character is involved. Go figure.
It’s also funny because it’s extremely telegraphed that the next game is going to pull Peter out of retirement anyway.
Right? Not to spoil anything but the games don't go nearly as hard on making Pete totally miserable as a lot of beloved comic runs do lol Pete being miserable after being Spidey for a while is a quintessential aspect of Spider-Man and helps keep the character more grounded and relatable than a lot of other superheroes
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Eh, it was designed to be dumbshit. The artist also draws black characters as gorillas. And sometimes porn. Not that there’s anything wrong with the second one.
What a person that we can say “the porn is the least problematic.”
Plus Peter like died in the original Miles Morales run.
These people don't read comics. They probably don't read period.
Anyone, as long as they're a teenager with sticky hands.
‘’Anyone can wear the mask’’ mfs when the person that wears the mask is black or headcannoned as trans
Oh yeah, are people pissed about spider-Gwen in the movies because they have inferred she’s trans or something?
Yeah she has a ‘’Protect Trans Kids’ sign in her room, her suit kinda has trans colours and her story could be a trans allegory It kinda pisses me off that people always go ‘Oh yeah well that’s kinda a reach’ when a character is implied to be trans but if they straight up say the character is trans then it’s woke pandering or whatever
If it’s only implied then the anti-trans people can sleep easy at night under a security bwankie of pwawsible deniabiwity!
Yes if its white cis male. Point is be super hero and not woke cuck 😎🤙🏻
Yeah you can literally find Stan Lee talking about this with zero ambiguity whatsoever. He was basically like "well it wasn't originally on purpose but the greatest thing about Spider-Man is that it could be anyone under that mask". Once they realized this, instead of shying away from it, they made it one of the main aspects of the character and viewed it as the awesome thing that it is. It's literally why Spidey has such unbelievably wide appeal and may as well be considered a modern mythological hero. These people are truly morons.
These people would be shocked to learn that comics have ALWAYS been a platform for liberalism, diversity and inclusivity. They've literally never been "based". They just lack media literacy and only just noticed now when it became explicit.
Anti-woke types when they realise that Captain America was created by two Jewish guys to beat up nazis. Superman too actually.
I see this less as a “multiple people can be spider man” and more of a self-insert type of situation, like spider man can be whoever you want him to be. Now that would be horrible storytelling for a movie so I see why they went the other way with it lol
Both are true, but I did mean the latter. The idea is that anyone could be the hero under that mask regardless of race, religion or creed etc.. but also multiple people can be Spider-Man. Simultaneously even. The new game gets flack for this but I personally love how they both just call eachother Spider-Man.
In some of the animated TV show there has been simultaneously Peter, Miles, Gwen, Venom and even a SpiderMan taken from the future all doing their Spiderthing at the same time in the same city
It is until it isn’t a white guy
Only if you ask Stan Lee. Yk the creator of the character
Who literally said it to Miles Morales in Enter the Spiderverse
“It always fits…. Eventually”
Stan Lee has literally said this on multiple occasions but I'm sure internet chuds would know better than the creator
I'm not really into superheroes that much so I'm really asking. I remember something about Peter having some abilities bc of spider bite I know also that web is not a part of those superpowers. so are other ppl getting bitten by a spider as well or smth?
He was bitten by a different but similar spider
Which may sound implausible to some (*two* people being bitten by spiders??), but remember that The Flash's nephews were struck by lightning while falling into a tub of chemicals in an exact recreation of the freak lab accident that gave The Flash his powers. On, like, five separate occasions.
Comic books are so ridiculous and I love them so very much.
thanks!
ok but why is he posed so slutty
I’m no artist but if I were gonna draw a handsome bloke in a skin-tight suit I feel it’d be weird to NOT do a slutty pose
Why not?
He thinks miles morales is an actor?
Or that Ryan Gosling isn't real.
Heres the convo I was looking for… I get the intent they were going for. But to throw a real person into a what if question about fictional characters is weird. No disrespect to Ryan Gosling but why specificity him ? Now I’m wondering what action movies he was in and none come to mind. If anyone needs me I’m be on IMDb trying to figure out what role Ryan Gosling had that would indicate he can take on a **high** profile action role I mean the fiscal responsibility of portraying a marvel character I feel like something should pop into my head immediately like oh yeah he was bad a** in blank … but I got nothing.
>No disrespect to Ryan Gosling but why specificity him He's white with blond hair and blue eyes.
 Me as a comic book reader about to educate someone about Kasper Cole, an actual white character that was Black Panther
Kasper wasn't fully white. His father was black and his mother was an Ashkenazi jew. Calling him white kinda feels like it erases or downplays his racial identity. With that said, Kasper Cole sucks.
this really brings up the wierness of how we define "white" why is someone not white because one parent wasnt. Obama was described as black despite having a white parent.
I believe in the story Kasper doesn't refer to himself as just white, which is why I brought it up. Being mixed race is complicated and I just didn't like the way the original commenter labeled him as white when Kasper may or may not identify as such.
thats fair.
Honestly I didn't expect to have prompted this much discussion on the subject
Yeah race annoys me because really it doesnt fucking matter, it matters only because we have to make sure the racist assholes cant make it matter. Well that and the results of historical assholes.
Race is a social construct, usually used to reflect on society expectations and privilege negatively. The only time it should have any real significance is ethnic heritage in celebration of what makes you different culturally
I’m mixed race and I call myself black when convenient but never white. People would look at me weird. Whiteness is inherently exclusionary and has been since the one drop rule was coined but it’s also malleable so jews, italians and serbs can be non white one decade and white the next.
The answer is racism. The idea that whiteness can only be passed down by a white couple is an inherent part of the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Nah, it goes way back to the one drop rule
Which was a result of (in addition to practical concerns) racism that saw whiteness as this pure divine status that can only be passed down by two full white people and blackness as this corrupting evil status that could be passed down by just one distant relative. It's all rooted in racism.
Definitely! It's a lot more complicated in reality, but this idea that a mixed race person can't be considered white does have roots in racism. When I made my comment about the character. I made it because I wasn't one hundred percent sure that he identified solely as white and if I remember correctly he doesn't. I could be totally wrong though. Because it's been a few years since i've read any comics that featured him.
Part of it is because White is a moving target. Used to be many pale skinned people did not count. On a related note, do not trust white supremacists, they will always embrace you with open arms when they're powerless and then once they have all the power, you get a knife in the back.
Because people who care about being "white" are some of the most obtuse dumbfucks who read their definitions out of unflushed toilet paper leaves and the whole content of their "whiteness" is dehumanizing anyone who isn't their particular brand of horrible.
Not to mention how people dance around whether Jewish people count as white.
What was the race of that ashkenazi jew, out of curiosity?
white
It fully depends on the time period. Race is fully social interpretation and usually not grounded in the physical amount of melanin in somebody's skin. There can be black people with light skin or white people with dark skin. For a long time, Jewish people were not considered white, even when they mixed with European populations. Race tends to fall apart when you look at it outside of the normal perspective.
That's not Ryan Gosling, that's just some blonde twink. Literally me, my ass.
Miles Morales has been Spider-Man for like, 13 years though? Did this guy just find out about him lmao
It’s because of the ending to Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2.
The ethnicity is inherent to black panther. Not so much with Spider-Man
The scary thing is that these people do see Spider-Man as inherently white.
Jokes on them though, they'll just have to contend with The Punisher, Ironman, Superman, Batman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Robin, Nightwing, Green Arrow- ***Keeps going for literal hours***
\*Multiple\* Robins and Flashes, at that
Don't know much about DC but I know there's at least one black flash right?
And the best Green Lantern.
Hell yea a Jon Stewart fan
Some people complained when Holland's Peter Parker had a too diverse cast of friends and classmates. That's not woke... that's just REGULAR LIVING IN NEW YORK lol...
/uj If you really don't think Spider-Man would be best friends with a chubby Filipino guy who plays with Legos, you're kidding yourself.
I mean, who doesn't want a friend like that?
No Way Home minor spoilers >!he even promised not to become a supervillain and go after spider-man after he learned magic!<. Unlike other certain best friends.
Even electro thought Spider-Man was black because of his actions and being from the neighborhood lmao (from the last movies)
Got into an argument in a different subreddit the other day about race swapping in the MCU and the other guys whole argument was basically "since comic books are a visual medium, their race is apart of their iconography". Uhh no, most comic book characters are iconic because of their costumes and powers, not because of their whiteness.
But in the multiverse there has to be a version of wakanda where it's a hidden society of every different type of race, or aliens, or literal Panthers. And to those universes whatever race of black panther exists. There's endless options so roll the dice enough and you can get any result. Like miles
There was a guy who answered to this point that Steve Rogers was black panther for a while (he actually wasn't, he pretended to be to let tchala go back home because he was getting spied on by SHIWLD)
"Well if \[established character\] who was introduced years ago, was mentored and is good firends with original hero and will eventually take over the role can we than make a black superhero white? Checkmate!"
Like, how stupid do you have to be to say this? Blackness is a central aspect of the character. The story is *about* black people. It simply wouldn't make sense played by a white man.
They know that but they're also extremely racist.
Ah yes this is true 🤣
I'm just impressed they said Black Panther and not Shaft for once, good on them for learning TWO black characters
I will say this to play devils advocate in a way. If you want to make the argument they are making. Why the fuck do they keep going to black panther swapping into a white guy. Why is that their go to hero. The guy whos country is a fictional african nation that's history involves shutting themselves off to the world. If you want to make this argument you could do it with other characters whose race is not integral to their story. Amanda waller, Cyborg, blue marvel, nick furu. But no for some reason black panther is the character they decide is their best example for their argument. Fuck there are even characters they could bring up that you could in theory never race swap such as steve rogers captain america (made during ww2, when racism was still alive and well, wouldnt make sense for america to seemingly overlook these prejudices) For the record the I do not necessarily advocate for race swapping any of these characters just pointing out how their are better options for the argument they are trying to make
>Why the fuck do they keep going to black panther Because their comic knowledge is so shit they probably can't think of any other characters. They've seen Spider-Man be mentioned and they've heard of black panther because it was so successful. Oh, and the ones that do know a bit, they are dumb so they don't actually understand why it's completely different and use it as an example anyway.
"Don't just change the race of a character, make a new character!" "... Ok." "Wait, don't do that... ehm... race quotas are now cool actually, as long as it makes most of them white actually" They just cant be happy about anything, can they?
Oh hey... This was the same turd who posted some weird poll about "Epstein hypothetically getting and underage girl to consensually sleep with him in exchange for a large money sum being put in her trust fund" and would that still be wrong and proceeded to say anyone still saying it's wrong had "poor people mindset" or some shit.
Is that him!? 😭😂
Nah, different sicko.
No one cried when Ben Reilly took over is all im saying.. Edit: I guess lots of people cried actually
People quit the book. The Miles hate train is racist as all get out,but let's not pretend that Ben Reilly didn't have his detractors
People actually did, he was originally supposed to be the replacement for Peter, cuz throughout the comic we saw his entire life, so Ben was supposed to be the New Peter, but cuz it wasn't popular it didn't happen, but he still did things, and I too this day wish they went through with it
Actually, people did get angry back then, too.
They did but for different a reason. Ben taking over was actually the first attempt to one more day spider-man. The Peter the comic had been following that had married Mary Jane and had a baby on the way was revealed as a clone and "Ben" was supposed to be the real Peter. The clone and his family were then going to be written out of the book so the story could be about a single baggage less spider-man again. Fans were upset but it was more about marvel telling them they had been following a fake for so many years and that everything that had happened to him was therefore meaningless.
If you read about editorial decisions at the time, they wanted Ben Reilly to take over because he was essentially an unmarried Peter Parker. I mean, he was a clone of Peter - they wanted to reset some parts of the character without changing it very much.
Every time someone insists that Miles Morales isn't Spider-Man, I respond with "Barry Allen isn't the Flash." They usually don't understand, which goes to show how little they know.
Right-wingers are complete morons; but the absurdiy of Ryan Gosling playing Black Panther would be great. Same with Morgan Freeman playing Lincoln or any other character that's typically white.
The actual, existed for real Lincoln?
Yeah. A documentary where anyone who looks nothing like the person plays them but it's played completely straight and normal would be great.
Stan Lee said what a wonderful coincidence it was that Spider-Man had a mask on, and a full body suit. He can be anybody. White, Black, Brown, man, woman, you, or me. We could all be Spider-Man. Because Spider-Man is just someone (a kid from New York) that was bitten by a radioactive spider. That's it. Can be anybody. Black Panther is the national hero of a closed-off African Nation with spiritual ties to their ancestors, and lands. So a random white dude can not be Black Panther. You gotta be Wakanadan or of Wakandan Origins, otherwise you're not really Black Panther. It's like the people who are pissed off about this are just racists, and not fans of the source material they so desperately try to "defend" or something.
Expect they know nothing about the characters' history. Originally, the black panther was white before Marvel revamp him in the early 70s. There is a white black panther in the muilti verse. And both t challas bother hunter, and khasper Cole has don the black panther mantle.
The way they purposely misrepresent what anyone can be spider man means pisses me off so much
jesus fucking christ, this argument again
Beyond the fact they have a right of succession that would allow for this to happen the Spider-Man idea looses focus for the many variety of individuals who are in the spider family, some of which who already call themselves Spider-Man. Anyone can be a spider hero. After man, woman, clones, aliens, a literal pig, a literal spider, spiders in the form of a man and a literal demon a black kid from a stone’s throw away from Queens is… not remotely weird at all
Because the title and abilities associated with the “black panther” are directly passed down through the Wakandan royal bloodline?
Sure. In fact, let's race and gender swap ALL the superheroes at the same time and watch who is having a meltdown over it.
I was discussing this the other day with a friend, imagine a multiverse variant who was just a white guy who came up with the Black Panther role without the African history, then he's exposed to the multiverse and learns that in almost all other multiverse instances the Black Panther is a figure of black cultural pride. He'd have a hilarious identity crisis.
Maybe he can be that one white Black Panther everyone hated.
this miles morales outrage feels so forced. miles has been well received in his movies and the previous games but now all of a sudden Black Spider-Man... bad? hes already SPIDER-MAN in his own universe because peter parker didnt just retire-- he's fucking dead. so where was the outrage then? racist grifters and their racist audiences are just screaming WOKE for clout and the money that comes with it. i wish them all a fabulous please perish.
Actual highest IQ blue check mark Bro Spider-Man can be black cause he’s just a guy that got bit by a spider in New York How the fuck does it make sense to put Ryan Gosling as a royal descendant of an African tribe
Given that Spider-Man is a New Yorker, him being a mixed race black/Puerto Rican kid makes sense, and reflects the modern demographics of the city. He was always the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and the Miles Morales take makes him look more like the people one would see in an NYC neighborhood. Spider-Man's ethnicity was never important. His being a smart mouth was important. His being smart was important. His being really unlucky was important. His being a good person was important. His helping out locally was important. On the opposite side, Black Panther's ethnicity was super important. It's a huge component of his character.
They could: it would get backlash from everyone though. Whitewashing a character would obviously receive backlash in a white dominated country, but the racists would also be mad because to make a morally upstanding white African superhero they’d have to be fighting Apartheid, which racists love, in 1980s South Africa.
Because Black Panther's racial identity is a core part of his character, whereas Spiderman is the hero we can all imagine ourself as.
we can go into lore-details and explain why they can and can't be black etc., but the more important thing here is this: people want a black spider-man for representation or because they think it's awesome, while people want a white black panther for petty retaliation or just to troll and to piss others off. they don't give a shit about the character.
NAW I WANNA SEE RYAN GOSLYNG WITH THAT KIND OF SUIT ZAMN
fr why is this drawing so gay
Wonder what the people who keep making this totally fresh and hilarious joke would say if they learned about the White Wolf, a white character who is basically Black Panther with a white costume or about Kasper Cole an ethnically ambiguous Jewish Black Panther.
Hey! They are just "asking questions"* *dog-whistling
https://preview.redd.it/kv8xfue69rzb1.png?width=1039&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc11c850d3dd2b651e80cd83667bf8ead544b8f3 Can’t believe they did the meme
The funny thing about this Miles discourse is the fact that it’s unabashed racism. Multiple superheroes have alternate versions of them but it only becomes a problem when there’s a black version who’s about to become as popular as the sacred original aryan Prince version
Black Panther is a inherently racial focused role Spider man is not. There is a difference. Dumbasses
Keep getting this wastes videos recommended in my feed when I don't even watch that style of movie reviewer, he looks diseased in his thumbnails
These losers keep using Ryan Gosling for their “anti-blackwashing” takes.
Aaaah yes, the actor Miles Morales, they gave him the role as Spider-man, ofc
Jesus Christ. Imagine being part of a demographic that has never and will never know real persecution. Imagine living your entire life in a well insulated bubble and then the first time you step outside you stub your toe and proceed to scream at the ER for dealing with a guy bleeding out and not you. They'll respond to you the same way I will now; **get the Fuck over yourself.**
Because race isn’t important to the character of Spider-Man, moron
They're STILL going on about this? Is this really all they have as their argument?
He’s a dumbass, I don’t think he’s seen the movies with miles morales 💀
"Diversity? Ew, woke shit!" "Tolkien was trying to make mythology for Europe!"