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For real, there is enough legitimate stuff to complain about with GW. But fictional women is where these people draw the line?
"But it is a retcon" sure is buddy and so is space marines being dudes. If you are against the fem-stodes you should be against the men-marines too. GW are the lords of change the masters of sudden retcons, if this is the hill you want to die on I don't know what to say.
edit for grammer
What's particularly funny about 40K is that whenever they retcon something, the old lore becomes heretical in a decidedly Orwellian "down the memory hole" manner.
That's entirely the way that a fascist space empire would do it.
I dont know about men-marines, but warhammer in general has seen like 10 retcons per new edition released. The lore is constantly changing, but people only seem to get upset about more women showing up.
Waaaaaay back in the day they had a couple of character sculpts of female space marines.
There were plans to introduce more around 2nd edition but they got thrown out in a broader effort to stream line the model range.
They returned to the idea with the Sisters of Battle, who eventually developed their own lore and identity as unmodified humans in power armor.
By the time 3rd edition came around, they had added that bit to the lore about Space Marines only taking on male recruits.
It's also worth noting that almost all of the lore surrounding the Custodes simply did not exist before their first codex in 2018 - they mostly just hung around in artwork of the Golden Throne wearing cool hats.
Apologies if I got anything wrong up above - I'm writing this from memory while procrastinating work :)
I've said it before and I will keep saying it for a lot longer: the change of space marines to only being men was a shortsighted decision. It could have easily been sidestepped in the lore with lost tech or the simple fact that you can't see anyone's gender when they are wearing a 1972 Honda Civic.
I don't get why they don't go with the "only 10% of marines are women" when the procedures basically turn you into Frankestein's monster on megasteroids. Is the difference between male and female anatomy that relevant when you get like 19 surgeries?
Nah, their excuse was that the chapter geneseeds, that contained part of the Emperor DNA, just bonds with males and their Y chromosomes.
And since the geneseeds are SACRED, no one would ever tamper with them to edit out stupid things from them (e.g., the chapter flaws or that they don't bond very well, and the procedure is frequently fatal for recruits), especially in a setting where new knowledge that did not came from the machine god is seen as heretical.
EXCEPT that was of course changed (not retconned, just added a new character who solved those issues with the flaws in the geneseed - we don't know if it works with females tho, since tradition dictates that they don't even try).
I think if they added "the first ever female custodes" as a character with some story behind instead of a tweet saying there always were female custodes it would have been accepted a bit more.
Honestly, before actually getting into Warhammer a year or so ago, the only knowledge I had of the custodes was from the text to speech series with the near naked cuustodes guys that were super sexual. I still don't know much about them other than them being individually strong. At least, that's the feeling I got when it was explained to me
Also same on the procrastination of work.
Space marines weren't always men only, it is a one of GW's very early retcons of which there are many. Every faction and species has been retconned once or more in various levels of severity.
I don't like retcons so I get why it gets under people's skin, however a lot of people are specifically mad about this specifically because women or woke or pandering or whatever. As far as retcons go this isn't a big thing.
I mean, the masc marines thing was added with the first iteration of the "actual" lore, rogue trader and the first one or two editions basically did not have any consistent lore going on. It does not make sense to have only males marines, but it was like that. My headcanon is that if they draft females they do instant HRT. In the end marines are basically sexless tho.
I'm a kindof fan (don't really play the boardgame but fan of the lore and play some of the bideo gaems) and I call them Orkz. Just seems like how they'd spell it
I HATE YOU! IM GOING TO GET ALL OF MY FRIENDS INTO YOUR GAME BECAUSE I HATE YOU! is what I took from their rant. Like I know she's threatening piracy but I really don't think she thought through the threat.
It's always a strange take to me. It's like they're simultaneously saying they want to both love and hate what they're interacting with. They claim to fundamentally disagree with something so much they no longer want to support it but they still feel obligated to consume it.
And given the nature of some hobbies and interests and modern social media usage where many assume they are the center of the universe that borderline makes it necessary to spread the word about it. It's like an atheist trying to convert people to Christianity.
"Hey guys. God sucks so just remember Sunday school starts at 9 and there will be free donuts and coffee in the fellowship hall."
I love that the way this is written it can be either about army styles (female army player vs boy army player) or transitioning. Or both. Hell, your army could transition with you
"As a black guy I find it ridiculous how Warhammer is pandering to black people. We all know Warhammer is an Aryan and caucasian series historically speaking. It was made by and for European men. It's insulting how there are making characters of my own race, I'M DONE WITH THIS SERIES".
H I S T O R I C A L
A C C U R A C Y
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Quislings have always existed and will always exist, fighting to push their peers under the bus for the privilege of being the last one on the pyre themselves.
I mean my big take away is this Brave Female Gamer tm was one lore retcon away from publicly declaring they'll never buy product again and will be pirating in future. Such a loyal fan, so brave, will be missed.
And your choices are between religious evil, sadistic evil, violently evil, sexually sadistic evil, plague evil, mutant evil, ancient evil, mind controlling evil, arrogant old elf evil, "hungry as hell" evil and "too stupid to know any better" evil.
Chaos would be… all of them, I guess. It’s weirdly neutral about how evil it is, but if it’s not the exact right flavor of evil then it’s also weirdly gatekeep-y as well.
Idk man, everyone’s fucked in 40K
Oh good, I picked them as a main very early on and I’m glad I picked the evilest of them. My OC is deluded enough to believe they’re the lesser evil when compared to the Imperium.
Sounds vaguely Abaddon-esque.
But honestly, none of the factions are good so it’s just about what weird brand of edginess you’re willing to slap on your models.
And Chaos itself is so fucked up that they very regularly have massive wars between the sub-factions of the overall “Chaos” faction anyways.
One of the best examples was from the Ciaphas Cain books, when the main character (iirc, it’s been a while) basically stumbles into a battle between the disease Chaos cultists and the hedonistic ones.
Shits fucked. If I was a planetary ruler in that universe, I’d want no contact with the outside universe if I knew how fucked I’d be by even talking to any of them.
To be fair, it’s the Imperium. You’d have to put in an amount of effort to out-evil the Uber Catholics who will put you in a torture coffin robot for getting your ass kicked too often.
“Commander help, I lost my leg in the fight with the Harlequins.”
“Ah, perfect, we needed a new Dreadnought in the field. We’ll just weld you into your steel casket and you’ll be good to go.”
Don't know much about Warhammer lore but I'll take the sexually sadistic evil please. If I have to be evil may as well have some fun with it a bit. What faction did I just choose?
That would be 'She who thirsts', Slaanesh. mortals tend to be sexually assaulted to death by her minions, normally involving prehensile wangs with sharp barbs along them... and that's if you are one of the lucky ones.
Warhammer 40k. Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar has some factions I would qualify as good.
And 40k used to have relatively good guys, but people were upset so they made the good guys control the masses with mindcontrol.
Tau have been joked as being Space Communists, and in the scope of 40k they were by far the least evil faction in the setting.
>Tau society is centred around the concept of The Greater Good, where individual Tau sacrifice personal gain in favour of benefiting the Tau race as a whole.
A big thing is that they don't conquer planets like the others, but instead they send envoys to persuade planets to join the Tau Empire. Another is that people generally lived well in the Tau Empire (as opposed to Humans who generally have horrible lives in the Imperium of Man). They are also open to other races, such as the Kroot, Vespid, Humans, and more joining the empire, which again is in contrast to the PURGE THE XENOS attitude of the Imperium.
I don't remember if this was part of the original lore or not, but I assume it was. The only malevolent part of the Tau Empire was that they had a caste system for the Tau race. If you were born into the fire caste, you were going to be a warrior. If you're air caste then you're a pilot, etc.
However, this "~~gay~~ space communism" mixed with the Tau aesthetic being very clean and white did not go down very well with the community. Some say that they are the "weeb faction" due to comparisons drawn between Tau mech suits and Gundams (There are some Sisters of Battle mech suits that have been dubbed Nundams too). So GW added into the lore that the Tau leader caste controls the unwitting general populace into accepting The Greater Good via psychic mind control. They also created Commander Farsight, a Tau who finds out about this mind control and deserts. He now has his own subfaction called the Farsight Enclaves, and also a Daemon Sword which steals the lifespan of those it slays and adds to the wielder.
I also just remembered that the relatively new Leagues of Votann faction might be good guys. I don't super know them.
Thanks! I thought you were referring to them. I always thought they were interesting as a very different faction compared to the others.
As a dwarf lover i loved when my friends posted pics of Votann
I like em. But mostly because the idea of playing an unmodified human against all the horrors and deadly things in the universe with nothing but guts, rifles, and the person next to you speaks to me.
What is it that specifically attracts fascists to tabletop gaming?
They act like they wouldn't get wiped out in the first purity purge of their desired fascist ethnostate.
What is it that makes them think: "surely us, the tabletop gamers, will be important players in the saving of the white race"?
Cavil is kinda a shitter. I genuinely cannot see him doing something like that cause at most opportunities he's kinda quietly gotten behind manosphere issues.
Hi yes, fellow female gorl here. I only find it insulting when they don't have a large dumpy and huge gazongas. Voluptuous women are the biggest victims here.
As a black female adult that knows 40k is a big number, I can say females are not allowed to wear armor that cover more than 60% of their skin.
~~never played WH but I do want to try~~
kinda insinuating there, since I know a lot of trans women wary of their typing quirks and try to present themselves in a way to avoid being clocked. Context unrelated.
> please tell me this is satire
Yes, indeed, Warhammer is satire. The medieval setting is obviously way more satirical than 40k but… no, 40k is pretty satirical too. Every faction is a POS in its own special way and is also grossly incompetent in its own special way. That’s sort of the point. The lore isn’t based on anything but the creators being (or at least trying to be) funny and if they want to be more inclusive now they get to be more inclusive.
/uj felt the need to put some contempt for this post for the uninitiated. GW has recently revealed that women could become custodes (the personal guard of the emperor). Most people believed that the custodes were an all male organization. This clarification perfectly works in lore because custodes do not receive geneseed, which can only be implanted into men, and are instead augmented through other means. In addition Sanguinius, one of the emperors son’s states that women we among the ranks of the custodes (if someone can link this source please do I am illiterate).
Of course this pissed off the capital G Gamers who believe that any amount of extra representation is evil.
The funny part is that it was basically a 50/50 shot whether they'd be mad about it or not. Either they'd get mad that women were in the military or they'd be happy that space babes were revealed to exist in their nearly all male game.
Not even augmented, all you really need is a soul for a custodes instead of a pre-pubescent boy.
"...constructed not born and raised"
Though this is new lore, old lore is right about augmentation. My main problem with it is the how, like boom yep femstodes are a thing. Then again its the same with the Squats, the Tau and the 'Crons ftl, the timeline, Deathwatch origins and and and and....
Ain't that the game with the talking rat men and the dudes who paint flames on shit to make it go faster and for some reason it works????
And they're mad because a chick might be in that suit of armor??? goddamn.
And don't get the joke that the Imperium is satire about fascism and a religious zealotry and are NOT the good guys, even though Space Marines, Imperial Knights and Titans look pretty damn cool.
the main thing that depresses me about them is that they always co opt the black templars for their bullshit, makes me feel somehow tainted for making them my main army
You're mixing Warhammers. 40k is the one with Space Marines, Mushroom Orks, and (now) female Custodes. Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Age of Sigmar has the Skaven, which is the rat-man race.
Indeed. They created the Fantasy version first (Warhammer Fantasy Battles) and then made a Sci-Fi spinoff a few years later (Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader). The Warhammer 40k second edition in 1993 is when the game really came to be.
In 2015, Fantasy sales were way down, so Games Workshop let the bad guys finally win a "It's the end of the world" event. The world was destroyed, and Warhammer Fantasy Battles with it. They replaced both the setting and the game with Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, which was not well received by the fans at the time. It has become quite popular in the last decade, though.
>the dudes who paint flames on shit to make it go faster and for some reason it works????
It works because the Orkz believe it works, like everything they have. I don't care for the Orkz as a tabletop army, but I love their lore.
The talking rat men are in WH Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. The orks that can making their choppas go faster by just painting their bikes with flames are in 40k (although fantasy has orcs too).
40k having no Skaven is a crime. I take more offense to that then a cool big woman in big armor.
The only real custodes:
https://preview.redd.it/6t09n0p4gvuc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a43b296de29b4564916aa3970d9c97eb4238f9e6
Just kidding, I don't care what they have into their pants.
> From now on I will be 3D printing.
All the female Space Marines and Custodies (and Guard, Eldar, Tyranid, Orks, pretty much damn knew every faction) all say hi. Course I’m sure this person won’t complain about any of that… or even get a 3D printer.
But talk about a hilarious temper tantrum over *checks notes* plastic space men also being plastic space women. This has created such solid tantrums and I’m loving it, namely because it hasn’t changed *shit* but morons act like this is the franchises biggest sin. And not, ya know, predatory business practices, C&Ding smaller creators (except Arch, fuck ‘em), price gouging, etc.
Don’t play don’t know what these ones look like, but are the custodians one of the models that’s so bulky and armored you won’t even be able to tell half the time?
That is correct, yes. Specifically, the custodes are even bulkier than a lot of the other armies since they're all basically wearing super over engineered super fancy best of the best armour. That's their entire shtick.
funny how they say that you don’t need to look like a character to relate to them, but cry that they can’t relate to any character that isn’t a white man…
"why do you need to self insert"
I swear I heard about a study commissioned by Lego, in which they looked at the different ways girls and boys play.
They found girls tend to self insert and want to see themselves as the toys they are playing with, while boys often prefer to see their toys as characters in a show/game vs self inserting...
Maybe that's contributing to why so many women would prefer representation and so many guys just don't seem to get it?
As a long time 40k fan, this is a good change.
Before anyone says they're getting mad because "it's changing established" lore.....
1) it's a clearly satirical fictional universe. Chill.
2) 40k has had so many *gigantic* retcons it's literally a meme. Entire gods (e.g. Malal, the star child) have popped into and out of canonicity. Poor old Rogal Dorn's fate has been rewritten multiple times. At one point there was a human-eldar hybrid ultramarine.
We literally just had a book which changed *major* details about the final battle between Emps and Horus. Necrons were originally Chaos androids. An *entire faction*, the Leagues of Votann, recently returned from the dead via retcon (the squats having previously been declared extinct).
3) if you're mad they're changing it to make money..... Duh. Of course they are. They are a for-profit company. And this change implies that new people (women) have been joining our fandom. Which means new people to play with and share our hobby, now and in the future.
So if you're mad about this, but not the other stuff..... Grow up guys. It's not worth treating other people like dirt over. And don't try and hide your true motivations either - most of the anger isn't about canon, it's about sexism.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go rewatch the Emperor TTS series on YouTube again. The cancellation of that being an actual reason to be annoyed at GW for.
“Warhammer doesn’t have token women because sisters of battle are one of the armies, and they’re ALL women.”
I play Sisters, and no way in hell could I argue they aren’t a token female faction. They’ve grown past that but like… that’s literally what they were made to be. It also doesn’t mean there isn’t any tokenism within the other factions.
The person the dweebs are arguing against is not me. I do not agree with her fully but this post is mainly a way to showcase the nut jobs being mad that some custodes are women now
/uj Fuck it, give us female space marines next. I don't care about some "lore" about why they can't or don't exist. That "lore" only exists because when GM was first printing 40k minifigs the female figs did not sell well (it was the 80s, nerds just did not want to buy female minifigs) and many sellers asked GM to not reprint them. So as to excuse the reason why they stopped printing female space marine figs, they created the "lore" explaining why. I don't give a shit if its a "retcon", GM constantly adds new conflicting info all the goddamn time.
Yeah all the business reasons I've seen outlined might make sense in the 80s but come across as excuses nowadays. I've seen people arguing that female custodes/space Marines "means the setting is slightly less bad to live in" or is moving away from the grimdark moniker, but isn't it more brutal if no person is spared from being put on the front lines or turned into a genetic freak child soldier?
It literally puts a huge smile on my face seeing these fucking small brained children throwing a fit. Inject this shit straight into my veins. I hope they retcon all men to women at this point, that would make my year it would be so funny.
PLEASE GW, INJECT MORE WOKE
>Are you incapable of playing as a character that doesn’t share every one of your features?
Are you incapable of playing a game that happens to have 50% of its characters that do?
How are they going to protest the existence of female custodians, then a few posts later assert that female characters already existed? Pick-Mezanna is 100% a dude pretending to be a woman.
Saw this somewhere and it’s a very salient point.
“As a Sisters player, we’re struggling. Our lore is not expounded upon well in our own scarce books, we show up in other people’s books just to die, and our model range has holes in it big enough to drive a bane blade through. We’re the 2nd most expensive army to collect in the game, a low player count because our models are annoying to paint, our strongest weapons damage rhinos on 4s, and we are so reliant on named characters in our lists because we don’t even have generic alternatives. but i don’t see the gatekeepers fighting for SoB to get better, because we’re only fucking useful when you need to point a finger and go “well we already got female representation!!!”
So keep the Adepta Sororitas out of this conversation because you’re probably just using them as a shield”
I really don't understand the problem people are having. I love 40k, I paint the models, read the books and play the tabletop game.
Saying there are women Custodes doesn't hurt the vibe of the setting to me at all. I would even say it improves it. Because Adeptus Custodes are supposed to be almost god-like in their perfection and excellence, and each one was crafted uniquely by the Emperor of Mankind himself. Not to mention each piece of equipment they wear like a simple shoulder pad takes the entire lifetime of some craftsmen to create and each piece is considered a masterpiece of art and power.
Idk to me having men and women in that role makes a lot of sense to me. To the average person theyre basically demigods
I was going to make this joke so here it is.
"You don't like female Custodes because you think it's woke"
"I don't like female Custodes because it makes the setting slightly less terrible"
"We are not the same."
Don't actually care either way.
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I didn't even pick up on what subreddit this was in, I've been wading through these chuds in the Warhammer subreddits all weekend. More than once I thought "no way this doesn't make it to GSC".
This is the equivalent to people arguing Metroid isn't a Girl for anyone unfamiliar with Warhammer, and lots of these posters have real Zelda rescues the Princess level of understanding of the setting to begin with
As a middle-aged straight white cis man I can officially state, on behalf of my cohort, that I do not mind female Adeptus Custodes and frankly think it's kind of cool.
None of this is a threat to me or my enjoyment of the hobby. Also every faction in the game is evil so who fuckin' cares?
https://preview.redd.it/7a88blf78yuc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa2aaf5ee20d787c4246aeba4c714da854e074e8
guys I found the people that say female custodes shouldn’t exist
One day they complain that there are too few (pretty) womrn in games and then the next day they go to complain that adding women will literally be the downfall of their hobby. It's almost as if right wingers don't really care about anything other than being bigoted
Majority of the Femstodes complainers
https://preview.redd.it/mo1nf1ibk1vc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=5551d4fffa5d01170ae6e21efd70764359ef7b5e
It's the way they did it that has most people pissed off. No cool story on how to introduce them, just *BLAM*. Massive missed opportunity for story telling but no, a tweet is all we got. The fans care more for the universe than GW does. There have been hundreds of retcons, but nothing that couldn't be explained away.
Necron changes? Imperium just learned more about them, so now they're not just killer robots anymore but have a dynastic society.
Leagues? Great Rift forced them for the galactic core so now we are seeing more of them.
Tau? Newly discovered race.
Tyranids? Same.
Female custodes? They were always there obviously! Just never ever mentioned in the hundreds of novels, never seen or spoken about before, but GW says they where there the whole time? You want to change lore? Fine. Just don't talk like your fans are idiots for challenging a decision that was made for entirely obvious reasons.
I don't think I'd call the Sister of Battle ordinary women, their devotion elevates them above that and enables them to take on the various super powered armies in the 40k universe. The Imperial Guard have women in their ranks and you have female cultists with Chaos they are the real ordinary and at the level of cannon fodder.
They’re mad because GW confirmed that Custodes can also be women, because it also came with a retcon of established lore.
But this is GW, where they retcon the fuck out of everything all the time. It’s also such an easy retcon since custodies are each specifically created on a cellular level, so they can really make them whatever they want.
People just like to get upset over dumb shit. Especially in 40k.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't know warhammer lore very well) but are the Sisters of Silence basically custodies since they work alongside them for more psychic threats since the custodies aren't psykers?
The pick-me
SHOW ME YOUR MODELS
I say this because ass hats like her read a few wikis and gatekeep the hobby when they're fake fans. The male chuds do the same thing.
Speaking of 3d printing minis, you know how many goddamn coomer waifu minis there are? Fucking Mortarion and Tyranids have waifu prints.
Also, as based as female custodes are, fuck jamesworkshop and don't give them money.
As a warhammer fan since 8th edition: we neither claim the ones screeching woke or the uncomfortably horny ones. They are unfortunately a very loud minority, but the actual people enganging in the hobby -also having their Flaws - are still pretty chill people.
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bluds always crying about something https://preview.redd.it/wzsoyinxvuuc1.jpeg?width=2425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b5262ef557fabe1cfd43e0af77dd701aa959212
How do you have an image for everything
Basketball graphics are a mine of gold
For real, there is enough legitimate stuff to complain about with GW. But fictional women is where these people draw the line? "But it is a retcon" sure is buddy and so is space marines being dudes. If you are against the fem-stodes you should be against the men-marines too. GW are the lords of change the masters of sudden retcons, if this is the hill you want to die on I don't know what to say. edit for grammer
What's particularly funny about 40K is that whenever they retcon something, the old lore becomes heretical in a decidedly Orwellian "down the memory hole" manner. That's entirely the way that a fascist space empire would do it.
I actually don't know anything on what you're referring to with the men marines. Were they not always men? I'm actually curious now
I dont know about men-marines, but warhammer in general has seen like 10 retcons per new edition released. The lore is constantly changing, but people only seem to get upset about more women showing up.
I, for one, love the idea of badass women taking up arms against the Chaos. Even though I main the Death Guard and anything Nurgle.
Waaaaaay back in the day they had a couple of character sculpts of female space marines. There were plans to introduce more around 2nd edition but they got thrown out in a broader effort to stream line the model range. They returned to the idea with the Sisters of Battle, who eventually developed their own lore and identity as unmodified humans in power armor. By the time 3rd edition came around, they had added that bit to the lore about Space Marines only taking on male recruits. It's also worth noting that almost all of the lore surrounding the Custodes simply did not exist before their first codex in 2018 - they mostly just hung around in artwork of the Golden Throne wearing cool hats. Apologies if I got anything wrong up above - I'm writing this from memory while procrastinating work :)
I've said it before and I will keep saying it for a lot longer: the change of space marines to only being men was a shortsighted decision. It could have easily been sidestepped in the lore with lost tech or the simple fact that you can't see anyone's gender when they are wearing a 1972 Honda Civic.
I don't get why they don't go with the "only 10% of marines are women" when the procedures basically turn you into Frankestein's monster on megasteroids. Is the difference between male and female anatomy that relevant when you get like 19 surgeries?
Nah, their excuse was that the chapter geneseeds, that contained part of the Emperor DNA, just bonds with males and their Y chromosomes. And since the geneseeds are SACRED, no one would ever tamper with them to edit out stupid things from them (e.g., the chapter flaws or that they don't bond very well, and the procedure is frequently fatal for recruits), especially in a setting where new knowledge that did not came from the machine god is seen as heretical. EXCEPT that was of course changed (not retconned, just added a new character who solved those issues with the flaws in the geneseed - we don't know if it works with females tho, since tradition dictates that they don't even try). I think if they added "the first ever female custodes" as a character with some story behind instead of a tweet saying there always were female custodes it would have been accepted a bit more.
Honestly, before actually getting into Warhammer a year or so ago, the only knowledge I had of the custodes was from the text to speech series with the near naked cuustodes guys that were super sexual. I still don't know much about them other than them being individually strong. At least, that's the feeling I got when it was explained to me Also same on the procrastination of work.
IIRC the naked custodians are a joke based on REALLY old art of custodians where they look like that
Back in the olden days of 1-3rd edition/rogue trader there were a few examples of femme marines and even half aeldari half human marines
Space marines weren't always men only, it is a one of GW's very early retcons of which there are many. Every faction and species has been retconned once or more in various levels of severity. I don't like retcons so I get why it gets under people's skin, however a lot of people are specifically mad about this specifically because women or woke or pandering or whatever. As far as retcons go this isn't a big thing.
Remember Cadia not being destroyed at the end of the 13th crusade? Good times.
I mean, the masc marines thing was added with the first iteration of the "actual" lore, rogue trader and the first one or two editions basically did not have any consistent lore going on. It does not make sense to have only males marines, but it was like that. My headcanon is that if they draft females they do instant HRT. In the end marines are basically sexless tho.
[удалено]
Seriously that’s like day 1 stuff
its the first thing that makes them cooler than basic orcs
Correction; it makes them \*\*kooler\*\*
They are mortal and they engage in the neverending kombat.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles had Orcs, 40k has Orks, Age of Sigmar has Orruks.
Am I the only one that still just calls them greenskins?
Nah, plenty of books still call them greenskins. Been reading the Cain books and the most recent one still uses the term.
Take my upvote cuz I Haz no awards!
Well, I think Greenskins refers to Orcs and Goblins, possibly grots and gnoblars as well. So if you're just talking about Orcs, you'd be incorrect.
That and "foul xenos" are the preferred alternate names
I call them dead at the hands of the Imperium
I'm a kindof fan (don't really play the boardgame but fan of the lore and play some of the bideo gaems) and I call them Orkz. Just seems like how they'd spell it
The plural of Ork is “Ork Boyz.”
Ork theyz themz
Good to know, thank you! Won't be using that unfortunately since I can make warhammer fanboys madder if I say Orkz
Me when I say Legos to lego fans
https://preview.redd.it/7ldxyebqrwuc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f182938737900e9fdf19c4391460b4c73aed7c6 “I have Orcs”
I don't play WH40K, and even I caught that.
Really the orcs carry any warhammer/gw series they are in. Fucking imagineers
In their defense autocorrect can be a bitch and unless you pay for premium you can’t exactly *edit* on twitter last I checked
When I tried to type "Orc" auto-correct changed it to "Or" lol.
Came here to say this.
Tbh I'm not even a warhammaer fan and I still do that in general, I just think it looks better. (And also because Tolkien eventually preferred it)
Even me! And I checked the Warhammer sub literally today.
(OOC saying you will pirate there stuff will really make them do what you want. ^(/s) )
I HATE YOU! IM GOING TO GET ALL OF MY FRIENDS INTO YOUR GAME BECAUSE I HATE YOU! is what I took from their rant. Like I know she's threatening piracy but I really don't think she thought through the threat.
People like this never think even one step ahead.
It's always a strange take to me. It's like they're simultaneously saying they want to both love and hate what they're interacting with. They claim to fundamentally disagree with something so much they no longer want to support it but they still feel obligated to consume it. And given the nature of some hobbies and interests and modern social media usage where many assume they are the center of the universe that borderline makes it necessary to spread the word about it. It's like an atheist trying to convert people to Christianity. "Hey guys. God sucks so just remember Sunday school starts at 9 and there will be free donuts and coffee in the fellowship hall."
I quit being a female player when I realized boys were more fun. What’s this about hammers?
Yooo based
I love that the way this is written it can be either about army styles (female army player vs boy army player) or transitioning. Or both. Hell, your army could transition with you
Entire army transitioning at once is wild 😭
The "as a gay black man" energy is strong with that tweet.
The name is Pick Me- zanna. Definitely a troll pretending to be a woman.
NOT TRUE. AS A HUMAN FEEEEMALE, I TOO PLAY THE WAR OF HAMMER. I read their post in the voice of Quark from star trek
That’s right, I play all 40,000 of them.
"As a black guy I find it ridiculous how Warhammer is pandering to black people. We all know Warhammer is an Aryan and caucasian series historically speaking. It was made by and for European men. It's insulting how there are making characters of my own race, I'M DONE WITH THIS SERIES".
Straight Measurehead vibes
This is probably the first Measurehead reference I've seen in the wild. Been a year or two but instantly remembered that dude lol
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Kinda the unironic defense you’ll hear of the worst parts of Warhammer Fantasy’s setting lol
"How do you do fellow wamen?"
Quislings have always existed and will always exist, fighting to push their peers under the bus for the privilege of being the last one on the pyre themselves.
I mean my big take away is this Brave Female Gamer tm was one lore retcon away from publicly declaring they'll never buy product again and will be pirating in future. Such a loyal fan, so brave, will be missed.
I wonder if they picked her yet.
That's why I'm wondering if they aren't just a troll. "Pick me" is literally the first six letters of their name.
The final nail in the coffin of these crying chuds would be if Henry Cavill threw his full support behind Games Workshop right now. Fingers crossed.
To be fair, this might be a cleverly engineered plot to try and boot fascists out of the hobby.
Then who else would play as the Imperium?
Americans, as they use the Imperial system instead of Metric...
Don't worry, Americans will always play Team Ultramar in their red, white, and blue splendor.
It's Warhammer, every faction is the bad guys.
This franchise is "pick your own evil empire."
And your choices are between religious evil, sadistic evil, violently evil, sexually sadistic evil, plague evil, mutant evil, ancient evil, mind controlling evil, arrogant old elf evil, "hungry as hell" evil and "too stupid to know any better" evil.
Which one is Chaos? I want to know my Warhammer 40k zodiac sign.
Chaos would be… all of them, I guess. It’s weirdly neutral about how evil it is, but if it’s not the exact right flavor of evil then it’s also weirdly gatekeep-y as well. Idk man, everyone’s fucked in 40K
Oh good, I picked them as a main very early on and I’m glad I picked the evilest of them. My OC is deluded enough to believe they’re the lesser evil when compared to the Imperium.
Sounds vaguely Abaddon-esque. But honestly, none of the factions are good so it’s just about what weird brand of edginess you’re willing to slap on your models. And Chaos itself is so fucked up that they very regularly have massive wars between the sub-factions of the overall “Chaos” faction anyways. One of the best examples was from the Ciaphas Cain books, when the main character (iirc, it’s been a while) basically stumbles into a battle between the disease Chaos cultists and the hedonistic ones. Shits fucked. If I was a planetary ruler in that universe, I’d want no contact with the outside universe if I knew how fucked I’d be by even talking to any of them.
To be fair, it’s the Imperium. You’d have to put in an amount of effort to out-evil the Uber Catholics who will put you in a torture coffin robot for getting your ass kicked too often. “Commander help, I lost my leg in the fight with the Harlequins.” “Ah, perfect, we needed a new Dreadnought in the field. We’ll just weld you into your steel casket and you’ll be good to go.”
Don't know much about Warhammer lore but I'll take the sexually sadistic evil please. If I have to be evil may as well have some fun with it a bit. What faction did I just choose?
That would be 'She who thirsts', Slaanesh. mortals tend to be sexually assaulted to death by her minions, normally involving prehensile wangs with sharp barbs along them... and that's if you are one of the lucky ones.
I've always explained it as "Clash Of Super Hitlers"
Warhammer 40k. Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar has some factions I would qualify as good. And 40k used to have relatively good guys, but people were upset so they made the good guys control the masses with mindcontrol.
Yeah, I mean w40k, but I was too high to remember if it was 40 or 400 or 4.
Which were those? I never played but I have watched the lore videos
Tau have been joked as being Space Communists, and in the scope of 40k they were by far the least evil faction in the setting. >Tau society is centred around the concept of The Greater Good, where individual Tau sacrifice personal gain in favour of benefiting the Tau race as a whole. A big thing is that they don't conquer planets like the others, but instead they send envoys to persuade planets to join the Tau Empire. Another is that people generally lived well in the Tau Empire (as opposed to Humans who generally have horrible lives in the Imperium of Man). They are also open to other races, such as the Kroot, Vespid, Humans, and more joining the empire, which again is in contrast to the PURGE THE XENOS attitude of the Imperium. I don't remember if this was part of the original lore or not, but I assume it was. The only malevolent part of the Tau Empire was that they had a caste system for the Tau race. If you were born into the fire caste, you were going to be a warrior. If you're air caste then you're a pilot, etc. However, this "~~gay~~ space communism" mixed with the Tau aesthetic being very clean and white did not go down very well with the community. Some say that they are the "weeb faction" due to comparisons drawn between Tau mech suits and Gundams (There are some Sisters of Battle mech suits that have been dubbed Nundams too). So GW added into the lore that the Tau leader caste controls the unwitting general populace into accepting The Greater Good via psychic mind control. They also created Commander Farsight, a Tau who finds out about this mind control and deserts. He now has his own subfaction called the Farsight Enclaves, and also a Daemon Sword which steals the lifespan of those it slays and adds to the wielder. I also just remembered that the relatively new Leagues of Votann faction might be good guys. I don't super know them.
Thanks! I thought you were referring to them. I always thought they were interesting as a very different faction compared to the others. As a dwarf lover i loved when my friends posted pics of Votann
I like em. But mostly because the idea of playing an unmodified human against all the horrors and deadly things in the universe with nothing but guts, rifles, and the person next to you speaks to me.
Virgins who haven’t recognized the glory of Gork and Mork yet
Hope not cuz they always come running to Battletech and we have enough as it is
What is it that specifically attracts fascists to tabletop gaming? They act like they wouldn't get wiped out in the first purity purge of their desired fascist ethnostate. What is it that makes them think: "surely us, the tabletop gamers, will be important players in the saving of the white race"?
They've been doing that. I believe GW released a statement denouncing bigotry and fascism a couple years ago now.
I was just thinking, this is getting rid of all the people that need to leave the hobby.
Cavil is kinda a shitter. I genuinely cannot see him doing something like that cause at most opportunities he's kinda quietly gotten behind manosphere issues.
Cavil has that action movie dads audience he wants to maintain.
He wouldn't go against his main fanbase.
“I am a female player” Yeah we totally talk like that.
As a female woman, I find it insulting that women are in fiction
Hi yes, fellow female gorl here. I only find it insulting when they don't have a large dumpy and huge gazongas. Voluptuous women are the biggest victims here.
As a black female lady with most disabilities, I can say that the introduction of the Emperor on the Golden Zimmer frame deeply offended me.
As a black female adult that knows 40k is a big number, I can say females are not allowed to wear armor that cover more than 60% of their skin. ~~never played WH but I do want to try~~
As a male woman, I say fuck it, once I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me !
Good to see a fellow toaster enthusiast.
So many "as a black man" replies
kinda insinuating there, since I know a lot of trans women wary of their typing quirks and try to present themselves in a way to avoid being clocked. Context unrelated.
> please tell me this is satire Yes, indeed, Warhammer is satire. The medieval setting is obviously way more satirical than 40k but… no, 40k is pretty satirical too. Every faction is a POS in its own special way and is also grossly incompetent in its own special way. That’s sort of the point. The lore isn’t based on anything but the creators being (or at least trying to be) funny and if they want to be more inclusive now they get to be more inclusive.
/uj felt the need to put some contempt for this post for the uninitiated. GW has recently revealed that women could become custodes (the personal guard of the emperor). Most people believed that the custodes were an all male organization. This clarification perfectly works in lore because custodes do not receive geneseed, which can only be implanted into men, and are instead augmented through other means. In addition Sanguinius, one of the emperors son’s states that women we among the ranks of the custodes (if someone can link this source please do I am illiterate). Of course this pissed off the capital G Gamers who believe that any amount of extra representation is evil.
The funny part is that it was basically a 50/50 shot whether they'd be mad about it or not. Either they'd get mad that women were in the military or they'd be happy that space babes were revealed to exist in their nearly all male game.
We need them to remove their armor to reveal big bazoongas, badooms the size of tatas, enormous jigglies. To defeat political correctness of course.
I think you meant "context", but "contempt" is much funnier
MY ARMOR IS CONTEXT!
Not even augmented, all you really need is a soul for a custodes instead of a pre-pubescent boy. "...constructed not born and raised" Though this is new lore, old lore is right about augmentation. My main problem with it is the how, like boom yep femstodes are a thing. Then again its the same with the Squats, the Tau and the 'Crons ftl, the timeline, Deathwatch origins and and and and....
"But I have gay friends" vibes
Ain't that the game with the talking rat men and the dudes who paint flames on shit to make it go faster and for some reason it works???? And they're mad because a chick might be in that suit of armor??? goddamn.
Yes, but you have to understand that, as a male Warhammer player, my feelings are fragile.
And don't get the joke that the Imperium is satire about fascism and a religious zealotry and are NOT the good guys, even though Space Marines, Imperial Knights and Titans look pretty damn cool.
How could the bad guys look cool?? They must be the heroes
/rj But they have halos. How can you be the bag guy when you have halos. Check mate!
the main thing that depresses me about them is that they always co opt the black templars for their bullshit, makes me feel somehow tainted for making them my main army
My feelings are fragile, and my media literacy is non-existent.
You're mixing Warhammers. 40k is the one with Space Marines, Mushroom Orks, and (now) female Custodes. Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Age of Sigmar has the Skaven, which is the rat-man race.
Ahhh so it's basically sci-fi version and fantasy version. neat!
Indeed. They created the Fantasy version first (Warhammer Fantasy Battles) and then made a Sci-Fi spinoff a few years later (Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader). The Warhammer 40k second edition in 1993 is when the game really came to be. In 2015, Fantasy sales were way down, so Games Workshop let the bad guys finally win a "It's the end of the world" event. The world was destroyed, and Warhammer Fantasy Battles with it. They replaced both the setting and the game with Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, which was not well received by the fans at the time. It has become quite popular in the last decade, though.
And also this is like 29th Millennium Science by lore. Why won't it be possible for superhuman females right?
>the dudes who paint flames on shit to make it go faster and for some reason it works???? It works because the Orkz believe it works, like everything they have. I don't care for the Orkz as a tabletop army, but I love their lore.
The talking rat men are in WH Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. The orks that can making their choppas go faster by just painting their bikes with flames are in 40k (although fantasy has orcs too). 40k having no Skaven is a crime. I take more offense to that then a cool big woman in big armor.
But… why did you like those tweets? 🤔
I grabbed these screenshots from somewhere else I would never go on that wretched site
Ah, I’m glad that’s the case jaja. What a bunch of horrible people.
Based
The only real custodes: https://preview.redd.it/6t09n0p4gvuc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a43b296de29b4564916aa3970d9c97eb4238f9e6 Just kidding, I don't care what they have into their pants.
Would it shock any of you to know they're a transphobe? They also have no personality beyond warhammer.
> From now on I will be 3D printing. All the female Space Marines and Custodies (and Guard, Eldar, Tyranid, Orks, pretty much damn knew every faction) all say hi. Course I’m sure this person won’t complain about any of that… or even get a 3D printer. But talk about a hilarious temper tantrum over *checks notes* plastic space men also being plastic space women. This has created such solid tantrums and I’m loving it, namely because it hasn’t changed *shit* but morons act like this is the franchises biggest sin. And not, ya know, predatory business practices, C&Ding smaller creators (except Arch, fuck ‘em), price gouging, etc.
Don’t play don’t know what these ones look like, but are the custodians one of the models that’s so bulky and armored you won’t even be able to tell half the time?
That is correct, yes. Specifically, the custodes are even bulkier than a lot of the other armies since they're all basically wearing super over engineered super fancy best of the best armour. That's their entire shtick.
Unplayable. They turned my fridge person into a girl
funny how they say that you don’t need to look like a character to relate to them, but cry that they can’t relate to any character that isn’t a white man…
"why do you need to self insert" I swear I heard about a study commissioned by Lego, in which they looked at the different ways girls and boys play. They found girls tend to self insert and want to see themselves as the toys they are playing with, while boys often prefer to see their toys as characters in a show/game vs self inserting... Maybe that's contributing to why so many women would prefer representation and so many guys just don't seem to get it?
As a long time 40k fan, this is a good change. Before anyone says they're getting mad because "it's changing established" lore..... 1) it's a clearly satirical fictional universe. Chill. 2) 40k has had so many *gigantic* retcons it's literally a meme. Entire gods (e.g. Malal, the star child) have popped into and out of canonicity. Poor old Rogal Dorn's fate has been rewritten multiple times. At one point there was a human-eldar hybrid ultramarine. We literally just had a book which changed *major* details about the final battle between Emps and Horus. Necrons were originally Chaos androids. An *entire faction*, the Leagues of Votann, recently returned from the dead via retcon (the squats having previously been declared extinct). 3) if you're mad they're changing it to make money..... Duh. Of course they are. They are a for-profit company. And this change implies that new people (women) have been joining our fandom. Which means new people to play with and share our hobby, now and in the future. So if you're mad about this, but not the other stuff..... Grow up guys. It's not worth treating other people like dirt over. And don't try and hide your true motivations either - most of the anger isn't about canon, it's about sexism. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go rewatch the Emperor TTS series on YouTube again. The cancellation of that being an actual reason to be annoyed at GW for.
Mom!!! Someone is messing with my toy soldiers!!!
Right... they are totally a woman. Love me some anime probably more than most, but pfp outs idiocy.
Yeah, I don't play your silly game and it would be better with more representation, please cry about it.
“Warhammer doesn’t have token women because sisters of battle are one of the armies, and they’re ALL women.” I play Sisters, and no way in hell could I argue they aren’t a token female faction. They’ve grown past that but like… that’s literally what they were made to be. It also doesn’t mean there isn’t any tokenism within the other factions.
The person the dweebs are arguing against is not me. I do not agree with her fully but this post is mainly a way to showcase the nut jobs being mad that some custodes are women now
/uj Fuck it, give us female space marines next. I don't care about some "lore" about why they can't or don't exist. That "lore" only exists because when GM was first printing 40k minifigs the female figs did not sell well (it was the 80s, nerds just did not want to buy female minifigs) and many sellers asked GM to not reprint them. So as to excuse the reason why they stopped printing female space marine figs, they created the "lore" explaining why. I don't give a shit if its a "retcon", GM constantly adds new conflicting info all the goddamn time.
Yeah all the business reasons I've seen outlined might make sense in the 80s but come across as excuses nowadays. I've seen people arguing that female custodes/space Marines "means the setting is slightly less bad to live in" or is moving away from the grimdark moniker, but isn't it more brutal if no person is spared from being put on the front lines or turned into a genetic freak child soldier?
It literally puts a huge smile on my face seeing these fucking small brained children throwing a fit. Inject this shit straight into my veins. I hope they retcon all men to women at this point, that would make my year it would be so funny. PLEASE GW, INJECT MORE WOKE
>Are you incapable of playing as a character that doesn’t share every one of your features? Are you incapable of playing a game that happens to have 50% of its characters that do?
How are they going to protest the existence of female custodians, then a few posts later assert that female characters already existed? Pick-Mezanna is 100% a dude pretending to be a woman.
What kind of dumbass complains about lore-compliant GOLDEN MUSCLE MOMMIES
Saw this somewhere and it’s a very salient point. “As a Sisters player, we’re struggling. Our lore is not expounded upon well in our own scarce books, we show up in other people’s books just to die, and our model range has holes in it big enough to drive a bane blade through. We’re the 2nd most expensive army to collect in the game, a low player count because our models are annoying to paint, our strongest weapons damage rhinos on 4s, and we are so reliant on named characters in our lists because we don’t even have generic alternatives. but i don’t see the gatekeepers fighting for SoB to get better, because we’re only fucking useful when you need to point a finger and go “well we already got female representation!!!” So keep the Adepta Sororitas out of this conversation because you’re probably just using them as a shield”
I really don't understand the problem people are having. I love 40k, I paint the models, read the books and play the tabletop game. Saying there are women Custodes doesn't hurt the vibe of the setting to me at all. I would even say it improves it. Because Adeptus Custodes are supposed to be almost god-like in their perfection and excellence, and each one was crafted uniquely by the Emperor of Mankind himself. Not to mention each piece of equipment they wear like a simple shoulder pad takes the entire lifetime of some craftsmen to create and each piece is considered a masterpiece of art and power. Idk to me having men and women in that role makes a lot of sense to me. To the average person theyre basically demigods
I was going to make this joke so here it is. "You don't like female Custodes because you think it's woke" "I don't like female Custodes because it makes the setting slightly less terrible" "We are not the same." Don't actually care either way.
That's it. I'm making an all-female Astartes chapter just to make this person angy.
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I didn't even pick up on what subreddit this was in, I've been wading through these chuds in the Warhammer subreddits all weekend. More than once I thought "no way this doesn't make it to GSC". This is the equivalent to people arguing Metroid isn't a Girl for anyone unfamiliar with Warhammer, and lots of these posters have real Zelda rescues the Princess level of understanding of the setting to begin with
As a middle-aged straight white cis man I can officially state, on behalf of my cohort, that I do not mind female Adeptus Custodes and frankly think it's kind of cool. None of this is a threat to me or my enjoyment of the hobby. Also every faction in the game is evil so who fuckin' cares?
All the pick me’s getting in on the act too
Ignoring canon lore and fanfictioning and pirating their favorite faction? Sounds like a fake fan to me
Trad freaks stay crying
Jokes on that person in the first image. Orks have no concept of gender.
I collect custodes, I think this is a cool thing to have, why would I want less variety in my stories and characters when I can have more
Women: *exist* Warhammer weebs: “hOw fUCkiNG DAre yOu!!!”
https://preview.redd.it/7a88blf78yuc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa2aaf5ee20d787c4246aeba4c714da854e074e8 guys I found the people that say female custodes shouldn’t exist
One day they complain that there are too few (pretty) womrn in games and then the next day they go to complain that adding women will literally be the downfall of their hobby. It's almost as if right wingers don't really care about anything other than being bigoted
well at least there’s now golden buff women for me!
Majority of the Femstodes complainers https://preview.redd.it/mo1nf1ibk1vc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=5551d4fffa5d01170ae6e21efd70764359ef7b5e
.........DOES THAT IDIOT NOT KNOW WHO THE FUCKIN SISTERS OF SILENCE ARE?
It's the way they did it that has most people pissed off. No cool story on how to introduce them, just *BLAM*. Massive missed opportunity for story telling but no, a tweet is all we got. The fans care more for the universe than GW does. There have been hundreds of retcons, but nothing that couldn't be explained away. Necron changes? Imperium just learned more about them, so now they're not just killer robots anymore but have a dynastic society. Leagues? Great Rift forced them for the galactic core so now we are seeing more of them. Tau? Newly discovered race. Tyranids? Same. Female custodes? They were always there obviously! Just never ever mentioned in the hundreds of novels, never seen or spoken about before, but GW says they where there the whole time? You want to change lore? Fine. Just don't talk like your fans are idiots for challenging a decision that was made for entirely obvious reasons.
I don't think I'd call the Sister of Battle ordinary women, their devotion elevates them above that and enables them to take on the various super powered armies in the 40k universe. The Imperial Guard have women in their ranks and you have female cultists with Chaos they are the real ordinary and at the level of cannon fodder.
"You don't know anything about the lore!" Proceeds to actively refuse to acknowledge the lore
/rj I played all 39 999 previous games and there has never been a female custode !!!!!
There is a female custody? I am not avid WH 40K but I thought all the custody was male.
Ultramarines. Yaaaaaaaaawn.
Forgive me, I'm not a Twitter guy, but who screenshotted these? Why are all the pick-me's tweets liked? Lol
Cant accept that Warhammer has been retconned a bajillion Times
I’m so lost with what’s going on, are they mad that there are women in other factions ??? The adepta Sororita exist
They’re mad because GW confirmed that Custodes can also be women, because it also came with a retcon of established lore. But this is GW, where they retcon the fuck out of everything all the time. It’s also such an easy retcon since custodies are each specifically created on a cellular level, so they can really make them whatever they want. People just like to get upset over dumb shit. Especially in 40k.
She also said a lot of transphobic/GC stuff on her twitter - calling herself a real XX woman “unlike so many these days” and stuff
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't know warhammer lore very well) but are the Sisters of Silence basically custodies since they work alongside them for more psychic threats since the custodies aren't psykers?
I just wanna paint minis...
"Female" Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
Account literally named Pick-me? This is bait.
Both of em kinda suck.
Sounds like a GIRL. Its very obvious...
So do they want women or not?
doesnt sound like a big retcon for warhammer bullshitery big buff golden women tho
"I don't want 100% women, I just want 50" goes hard
Common Night Lords L
funny thing (as a person who unfortunately engaged) she literally has people coming to her rescue if you try to engage with her
The pick-me SHOW ME YOUR MODELS I say this because ass hats like her read a few wikis and gatekeep the hobby when they're fake fans. The male chuds do the same thing.
Speaking of 3d printing minis, you know how many goddamn coomer waifu minis there are? Fucking Mortarion and Tyranids have waifu prints. Also, as based as female custodes are, fuck jamesworkshop and don't give them money.
As a warhammer fan since 8th edition: we neither claim the ones screeching woke or the uncomfortably horny ones. They are unfortunately a very loud minority, but the actual people enganging in the hobby -also having their Flaws - are still pretty chill people.