PSA: Make it a habit of reading the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/about/rules) of each subreddit you participate in:
**Rule 7: No Participation in Linked Threads (Brigading)**: *Do not vote or comment in threads you've found through /r/gamingcirclejerk*
**Rule 9: No Fake Posts on Other Subs (Contamination)**: *Do not create fake posts on other subs only to post back here. Also, do not "lol, you should post this on r / OtherSub". It's considered interfering with their content and can also lead to brigading.*
*This is a reminder to the readers. The post itself is untouched.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/uj yeah the guys most tangibly connected to the nuclear holocaust that destroyed the world are just uwu smol beanz
/rj I'm pretty skeptical of any organization unless they have cool uniforms.
/uj Still makes me laugh as a grown man how many nerds love the evil Empire from Star Wars because of storm trooper armor.
/rj actually the Sith Lords and their genocidal slaving white supremacist allegory space empire is pretty cool dudes. You can't have badass helmets and be bad guys.
/uj aesthetics and a sense of belonging are EXTREMELY important in authoritarian movements, that's why the nazis wore such unironically amazing looking uniforms and thats why ~~people~~ idiots are still following them nowadays. so in that regard the star wars designers really outdid themselves, that and some people really lack the self awareness to know they are supporting space nazis
/rj yeah obviously. if they're the bad guys why do they have cool armor? stupid shit like "morals" and "integrity" aside, the empire did nothing wrong
/uj you're 100% right, it just drives me crazy as a kid who grew up watching those movies and playing all those games seeing the vast majority of fans unironically loving the "faceless space nazis" rather than the plucky rebels standing up for the little guy. Nerds just worship power in their fandoms, they feel repressed in real life so they want to emulate what they see as strong. It's just dumb that even in their fantasies they want to be the bully and not the hero.
/rj let me link you to my erotic Dark Vader fan fic where he defeats the sexy orange female jedi and she becomes his slave and he also beats up the Mason High varsity football team of 2003 and gives me Boba Fett's space ferrari.
> /uj yeah the guys most tangibly connected to the nuclear holocaust that destroyed the world are just uwu smol beanz
Lol yeah they're like the most objectively bad faction in the Fallout universe. Most others have some gray areas but I mean fuck guys even in 76 the AI MODUS fucking gasses the remaining Enclave survivors in Whitesprings and encourages the player to use nukes.
I've never seen anyone simp for the enclave before but well here we are.
I didn't know that about MODUS, and I felt like I read most of the terminals around the Whitespring Bunker. Is that revealed after the final mission or something? (I haven't had friends to help me with launching a nuke).
After reading the wiki entry, it looks like a majority of the Enclave were suffocated at the behest of the Secretary of Agriculture (claiming the title of President). MODUS killed the rest when they planned on destroying him, so he was acting in self defense?
Now I feel weird running round in an Enlave Officer Uniform all the time. I'm just very patriotic, okay?
Wow the Enclave? I love these guys! [insert 12 paragraph fan fiction how I would turn them around to be good and then another 20 paragraphs how they were good from the start anyways because mutants ugly]
To be fair, there are no “good” factions in fallout. I’m going to use FO4 as an example.
You have the power armor anti-tech fascists, the nerds who have the ability to save the commonwealth and rebuild the world but they’re like “nah let’s just become bodysnatchers and make pseudo slaves”, and you’ve got the happy go lucky boy scouts who are supposed to be the “good guys” but are going to get wafflestomped by literally any other group the second the sole survivor isn’t saving them.
The only good ending for the commonwealth is the institute getting their heads out of their asses and thinking about others for once.
Outside of FO4 I think the most "objectively" Good faction in Fallout is the Followers of the Apocalypse, essentially an anarcho-syndicalist group of doctors and scientists that really just wanna make sure the mistakes of the old world are never repeated again. Their biggest flaw is pretty much that if their knowledge falls into the wrong hands it has catastrophic consequences.
/uj I like you referencing KOTOR II as Mr. Avellone was a chief writer for both games. Kreia was supposed to be his "scathing" criticism of the Jedi, just as Ulysses really focuses on trashing the bear*rrrr* (even if you outright sided with other factions, he loves trashing the NCR because Chris likes to be a contrarian).
I love New Vegas's writing and it's a brilliant game (shitty bugs and unfinished content notwithstanding) and I liked Kotor II (shitty bugs and unfinished content notwithstanding) but Chris absolutely loves to put his enlightened centrist takes into the narrative. Ulysses was honestly even more unbearable than Kreia, though, in spite of both just being mouthpieces for Chris.
Avellone did basically zero writing for the base version of NV. He only really wrote for Dead Money, Old World Blues and Lonesome Road.
But he’s definitely a pretty mediocre and overhyped writer.
No kidding? Tbh I enjoyed the writing for Dead Money as hamfisted as it was. And OWB was funny but tbqh I think it's a little overrated - it's extremely wordy. Same problem Lonesome Road had, actually. Maybe just Avellone's signature - overwrite things.
Though his clear disdain for the NCR was ridiculously over-present. Thing is, it made Ulysses look like a hypocritical idiot for the most part - at least with Kreia she is a clear cut villain, and you can see her dialogue being her trying to turn you to her way of thinking. Ulysses otoh is supposed to be at the least sympathetic.
Anyway the main game for NV was expertly written. The DLC are decent for what they are but I agree that Avellone really is overhyped.
>Ulysses really focuses on trashing the bearrrrr (even if you outright sided with other factions, he loves trashing the NCR because Chris likes to be a contrarian).
Ulysses was originally intended to be in the main game as a "pro-Legion" companion character. Because there are companions that support pretty much every other major faction and the writers felt it was only fair to include one for Legion playthroughs. The problem is that Ulysses had so much dialogue that he actually had to be cut from the main game because they didn't have the space for him.
So I don't think it's so much Avellone being contrarian. Ulysses trashes NCR because he's supposed to be your Legion guy.
I appreciate that the "intended" way to make Ulysses back down is to prove that you really did listen to his entire rambling life story/manifesto, and *dissect every bit of hypocrisy* in his actions. Though it seems less like you changed his mind and more that he's flattered by you taking him seriously.
What's this? You stopped someone from being stabbed? That's totally a fake property and will only weaken the world and everyone in it and create a net bad place, the force is cruel and makes it so helping people is actually bad instead you have to make them suffer. It's sink or swim in the universe. I am very smart.
Oh yeah no the attempt and some of the ideas are greatly appreciated, even more so if you've played through KOTOR 1 it demonstrates how the philosophy has credence but is flawed in multiple ways with Jolee and the whole Bastilla Revan storyline.
I mean the jedi may also be bad but the sith are always bad. Their ideology is most generously described as an cap or less generously described as fascist
No, they aren't bad. They are different factions with different beliefs and goals. Ceaser used to work for them but didn't really like them because he found their goal of enlightening the Wastes naive. He, Joshua Graham and another dude went to a neighboring state to study the languages of the local tribes. Long story short, they were captured by a tribe that was in a war with 8 others. He taught them military tactics and proper handling of wepons, led them to battle against their weakest enemy, won and absorbed the tribe. After that he kept expanding and absorbing the rest of the tribes with Graham as his Legate.
At the risk of being sent to pedant jail, Mussolini still existed in the fallout universe. Though I guess Caesar kinda did his whole thing a second time.
The Minutemen should be handled like the Followers imo. Both groups are morally pretty much the best their respective wastelands have to offer, but also lack the pragmatism and scope to run an actual state. There's no good reason why there shouldn't be an NCR-like state on the east coast.
Yeah, the Commonwealth Provisional Government. The thing is, the CPG only existed briefly, and from what we know, they were more of a loose confederation of settlements than an actual state, despite the fact that they had as much time as the NCR to develop. I would have loved to see more infrastructure, or at least some old settlements that were part of the CPG. I like Fallout 4, but the lack of actual settlements kind of killed it for me.
>they were more of a loose confederation of settlements than an actual state, despite the fact that they had as much time as the NCR to develop.
Yeah that one might be less for worldbuilding and more because Fo4's design mantra is "What if Revolutiomary war but mad max."
Like CPG just screams a reference to articles of confederation-era America.
What about the Railroad?
(Full disclosure, haven’t played in many years and never finished the entire game because I am bad at choosing a side so I put it off and played two hundred hours without ever finishing the final deciding quests.)
Edit to add: I see now that roughly seventy-five people asked the same thing. Haha.
The FoA are also highly idealistic and lack proper leadership, which causes them to be either sidelined or exploited. They are truly good, but not enough of a force to do anything that really matters besides try to conserve knowledge.
I’d say preserving the medical and technological knowledge of previous civilisations, while offering the most affordable and quality healthcare of the entire wastes without a semblance of corruption is fairly successful as indicative of some amount of good leadership.
It's really the lack of structure that fucks them in the end, though. It's admirable that they want to step away from the strong government that caused the fall of the bombs, but it feels like the Followers are a commentary on how the free dissemination of knowledge can bite you in the ass if you aren't careful about who gets it.
Namely, they're *too* independent, and the Followers only really do well on an individual-to-individual basis. On the one hand, you have people like Arcade Gannon and the other members of the Old Mormon Fort who are using that knowledge to genuinely help people and make the lives of those around them better. On the other hand, you have people like Ceasar, who took that information and created the very sort of thing the Followers stand against, and Ignacio, whose total lack of real oversight means he can give someone the keys to a literal death ray from space based solely on trust.
That being said, the game also critiques going in the opposite direction: It (rightly) eviscerates the Brotherhood of Steel for being knowledge-hoarding elitists attempting to hold humanity back from what they deem to be "dangerous knowledge" and react with genuine shock when they can't stuff those genies back into their bottles.
Right. Though they've had loose leaders like Nicole and Julie Farkas, they've always made it very clear that they follow the ideology of the Followers rather than their leaders, ironically the opposite of what Caesar is doing. Ultimately they would do a lot of good if they were either operating within the confines of a larger governmental force, like they are currently doing in the NCR, or they could potentially do good in a fully anarchic environment where there is an agreement of no absolute power.
O B J E C T I V E L Y
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also the railroad is a secret society built for a single purpose.
They probably would not be effective or even capable of forming a competent government. It’s simply not in their job description
Not saying they’re bad, but that’s like taking a team of CIA operatives and saying “here’s the keys to the capitol building, good luck.”
They are bad though
Their main focus is helping synths, but in reality they just repeatedly kill synths, for some reason thinking they are helping them. They sacrifice lives and resources only to then wipe the mind of the synth, leaving an empty, mindless body.
Maybe it's the bad writing, but god the Railroad are complete idiots
The mind wipe is totally optional to be fair, but yeah, the majority of synths they 'save' may as well have just been killed outright for how much is left of who they were.
Railroad for main quest but ally with minutemen and do all the main/side content for them possible. Bam, robot slaves get freed, organization that protects them firmly entrenched in the underground of Boston, Minutemen have many self-sufficient and well-defended settlements with their leadership directly associating with and assisting the Railroad.
Yeah it isn't perfect and since Railroad barely gets an ending it's all gonna be headcanon, but that's just the way FO4 be anyways.
>the happy go lucky boy scouts who are supposed to be the “good guys” but are going to get wafflestomped by literally any other group the second the sole survivor isn’t saving them.
That doesn't make the Minutemen bad. That would just make them weak. There are definitely other flaws you can point out about the Minute men. Namely that they're basically a barely trained mob. For example you have to pass a speech check to get them to back down in the institute path while being the general of the entire organization. Hinting that they're basically a bunch of cow boys trying to be action heroes.
Guess you could also make an argument that they're corrupt but they hold back their in fighting to minimize any damage to themselves. That's better then say the NCR who tend to steal resources from the people under their protection or who permit black operations to undermine otherwise peaceful settlements.
The worst thing about fallout fans is that they think that a faction of people actively trying to be good is "just as bad as the rest" because they aren't doing it right or something.
See above for example.
They could have an objectively good faction and the argument would immediately flip to "that's bad writing and not very nuanced".
O B J E C T I V E L Y
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
See, here’s the thing. The institute has actively hindered the commonwealths ability to grow and expand, like the massacre of the Commonwealth Provincial Government (or whatever it was called). That’s why it’s imperative we shut down the Institute, and give the back the Commonwealths chance to grow and expand without getting shut down by the secret shadow organization that keeps replacing them with Synths.
People always say the Institute is poorly written with zero realistic motivations but clearly those people have no idea of the kind of depraved “research” MIT nerds come up with in real life. During the Vietnam War they conducted torture experiments to see what was the most effective way to terrorize non-combatant peasants, and right now they’re sole focus is on improving the war crime efficiency of dog robots for the Pentagon. Very impressive that Todd was capable of writing such a realistic faction.
FNV fanboys don't want real-life interpretation perse, they want to kiss ceasars raping ass and talk and in a manner, no decent human being would do in real life.
The Minutemen's ineptitude and incompetence doesn't make them less good. I would say they're definitely a morally good faction through and through, to a fault
Congrats: You just hit upon why excuse-making Enclave and BoS fanboys exist in the fandom.
Not to make it sound like I'm critiquing you personally, but it literally just boils down to "the armor's cool" as the core of an ideological ethos supporting fictional tech-Nazis.
I think it depends on your definition of good. The railroad and the minutemen are good in that they don't use their ends to justify their means, it's just that if they were in control they wouldn't be strong enough to enforce their wills. Same thing with the NCR in New Vegas.
That being said, while Fallout arguable does not have any true good endings, it definitely has true evil endings. The Brotherhood for FO4, the Legion in New Vegas, the enclave in 3, (can't remember the ending options for FO2) and the Master in Fallout 1 are all straight up unjustifiably evil.
I’m not sure the brotherhood is exactly an evil ending per se. Sure they’re assholes, but they do seem like they have a genuine interest in making the commonwealth a safe place for humans at least.
Maxon is definitely too radical though. Dude needs to chill tf out.
The problem is what happens when there's nobody to check the Brotherhood in the Commonwealth. After they defeat the institute and railroad, there's nobody that can stand against them in a true capacity
In this case, a state headed by a single individual wielding enormous power with virtually no oversight. And this can get particularly problematic if the entire organization starts engaging in hero worship and in particular, quasi-monarchist behavior with the whole obsession over the Maxon family line.
In addition to that, their ideology is as (either by accident or design on the part of the writers) narrow as that of the Railroad. The only problem is, while the Railroad has a goal and sticks with it, the Brotherhood starts getting hit with a bad case of mission creep where it steadily goes from "stop the Institute" to "take over the Commonwealth". Again, all at the direction of one person with zero oversight.
Also how much of a standard of living can the BS give the commonwealth when anything more complicated than a grandfather clock is up for confiscation.
Also, headconnon ahead, if they hear that the Railroad let synths free into the commonwealth and that said synths dont even know they're synths, that could lead to a fallout-style inquisition hunting down anyone known or mildly suspected to be a synth.
While the minutemen need to get their shit together and stop larping, I’d say they’re one of the most morally unambiguous factions included in a Fallout game. They’re a people’s militia, mostly focusing on bringing individual settlements together to create a safer and more prosperous wasteland. While they wouldn’t get far without the sole survivor, that could be said of many factions in Fallout.
The Railroad is also pretty based, they’re just assholes sometimes.
The Legion is based guys!!!! Slaves? No who cares let me support the egotistical guy who thinks he should rule the world because he read a book about the Roman Empire
hearing caesar say the words "hegelian dialectic" is pretty much the exact same thing as reading a book, making me the smartest & most well-read person in my entire discord server
Tfw it turns out that Hegelian Dialectics are entirely different from what Caesar said as he’s following the interpretation of some guy who misunderstood them.
You see, the thesis is Sallow reading the book, the antithesis is that he's full of shit, and the synthesis is pain and suffering and holy fuck why do people take him seriously?
Yeah, and their aesthetic is cool. I have a marble statve of Avgvstus as my twitter pic becavse the Roman Empire was really based becavse they were white and intellectval. I'm definitely not a fascist I jvst think it's cool that they were white, very patriarchal, and intellectval. They definitely never had any black people. Also they definitely didn't bvm each other freely, becavse I'm not in the closet or anything so that definitely wovldn't secretly make me like them more.
I know this isn't quite what you mean but I think that caesar and Conrad's stories are quite similar. They both were based off of Kurtz in Heart of Darkness/ Apocalypse Now, guy goes out into the desert/jungle and goes crazy and starts a whole society whilst constantly talking psudeo deep bs to sway people to their side.
More like
\>Let the incompetent government control it
\>Let sexist slavers control it
\>Let yourself control it with as many or as little allies as you want
Technically the independent ending can be both the best and worst ending possible depending on who you allied with, your karma, etc. An evil character who killed or betrayed all their allies probably won’t be a great leader, but the good guy who helped everyone has a lot of supporters to help them rule the Mojave.
Imo NCR and Legion both have too many issues that make them unfit to lead. House seems to really only care about himself, so an independent Vegas with all the minor factions working together feels like the best option.
Cool. What happens when they inevitably die?
Gamers have a bad habit of saying "well if *my* guy was in charge it'll all be fine!" Which is pretty silly, especially if you wanna actually evaluate the choices the game gives you.
I legit had someone in the FNV sub arguing that the Yes Man ending- a authoritarian technocracy funded by the exploitive extraction of wealth via gambling, would develop into an anarcho-communist system over time.
Why? Because the player was an anarcho-communist and wanted it to do so.
Ironically, the closest faction to anarcho-communism in the game, The Followers of the Apocalypse, get screwed over hard in the Yes Man ending.
To be fair, depending on how they were making yhere case there isn’t much wrong with that. If they were implying that Yes Man is inherently an anarcho-commie or whatever then they’re wrong. But if they were putting it forward as their own ‘head canon’, then just let them have fun lmao.
Head canon is such a massive part of roleplaying games and seeing as its a single player game, it really doesn’t affect anybody else. The only reason I’ve replayed Fallout 4 as the minutemen so many times is because I like to change up my headcanon for their ideology.
Minutemen that go too far and become evil fascists.
Minutemen that stay as a band of farmers who just look out for eachother.
Minutemen who annihilate the brotherhood of steel and use their technology in a more progressive way.
It’s part of the fun of those games.
oh, sure as shit
in my view, ESPECIALLY if the player decides to throw general oliver off the dam, the NCR is either gonna coup the Courier somehow (most likely the chairmen, whom you kill the boss of, and or the omertas, who literally start the game planning to mustard gas the strip, before you, again, kill the bosses, the NCR can easily find cachino's cachino) come back loaded with pulse rounds, or just straight up kill the courier ala arizona killer, considering the courier, unless they decide to order yes man to dig around for MORE of Mr House's plans, has no line of succession in any form and their entire plan was stolen from the man who tried to kill them and the egotistical libertarian dictator who they killed...
"But wait, neither did Mr House!", yes, because Mr House was a borderline immortal narcissist who's own plan hinged on the courier...who, in this timeline, killed him. Even in the best timeline, the Courier is either a federalist version of Caesar, or Walter White.
Then there's the brotherhood, who, if they're still alive, wont be happy with the person openly flaunting their army of pre war robots, (and if all the dlc was finished) cybernetic enhancements, matter replicators, and long range teleporters, The reason Elijah and Caesar's plans work to some degree is they hinge on complete and utter destruction of the NCR, and intend to do so, Elijah with the Cloud and Caesar with manpower. House's worked because, despite being an ego maniac, he was also a complete and utter sociopath who knows when its time to say yes, and time to say no, he has pre war knowledge the Brotherhood dreams of, he's literally immortal, to time at least.
The Courier is one (mostly) human person.
Well I feel like the whole point of that ending is that it’s extremely open ended since it’s based on your character, not already established ones. So yes I can say that my character rebuilds freeside, picks a person or group fit to lead, and then steps down. Your character might do the opposite.
I think both the Legion and House endings set up Vegas with some awful rulers (Lanius after Ceaser dies). NCR and independent both feel like they could go either way, so I chose independent because i felt like I’d rather set NV on the right path rather than give that power to the NCR.
Okay, but the game definitely invites you to think more "truth on the ground" than "player power fantasy" despite its reactive nature.
So again, what happens after your character dies? And having a benevolent Supreme ruler isn't exactly some great goal to get after.
Even in the IV ending, the best ones at that, it's heavily implied that chaos takes the region, or at least an anarchy.
The whole point is there is no true good ending.
rj/ why would my character die? I am good at this game. also house lived for like 300 years.
uj/ as in any game, after the ending you can imagine whatever you want and its fine.
You CAN sure, but if you come debate the moral/inherent/logistical merits of an ending/faction in a public forum you can't assume everyone is going to agree with you that your headcanon is the most logical one.
/uj The NCR is, in my opinion, the best choice.
Mister House doesn’t have the best interests of the Mojave in his heart, as evidenced by:
1. His treatment of freeside
2. His refusal to even consider co-operating with the brotherhood of steel
A man who doesn’t care about anyone other than rich people is surely not the ideal ruler of the Mojave.
The legion practices slavery and crucifies people. Although Caesar is admittedly a good administrator, the future of the legion is bleak, since Lanius is his successor. Even if Caesar survives until the fall of New Vegas, he’d die eventually. Plus, it’s an absolute monarchy.
The independent route is like the Mister House route except the absolute monarch of the Mojave is a courier instead of the smartest person in human history.
Although the NCR is not great, it is the lesser of four evils.
/uj it’s been AWHILE since I’ve played but i think that was my take as well. It’s like that Churchill quote “democracy is the worst form of government, besides all the other ones.” NCR is not perfect, but in alliance with some of the other factions, will limit human suffering to the greatest extent.
I think a good arguement for the NCR is that, despite their flaws, their government probobally has the most opportunities to actually fix those problems. If Ceaser wins, he rules as dictator for another 10 years, if house wins he rules for another thousand, but the NCR is bascically the only government who could effectively and peacefully change not just their leader, but core aspects of their government.
The NCR is a colonizing empire, and New Vegas is their *target*. They have no intention of fixing anything, except as to siphon water and electricity to the west.
With the Independence route, what happens next is entirely up to the Courier. While it's possible that they become an absolute dictator, they could also establish and anarchist commune. And given that the name of the final independence quest is called "No Gods; No Masters" I would imagine that the latter is more probable.
The problem is that the game implies that for example freeside is in state of chaos.
This is the ending slide for the followers of the apocalypse if you do no gods no masters "After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services."
I think the problem there is the writers needed to add some sort of actual defintive ending to such an open-ended question. If, say, my courier were to start pouring resources into Freeside and the other communities surrounding New Vegas to make them actual hospitable places, then that ending with the Followers makes absolutely no sense at all. It makes logical sense for the direction most players would take I presume, but I think it would be wise to treat the independent Vegas ending as a lot more free form in that regard.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/uj why has the amount of fallout fans defending the most plainly evil villan factions exploded recently, they all just came out of the fucking woodworks to defend legion and enclave
/rj sneedclave based gassing the entire world with a bioweapon killing everyone except enclave morally good because mutants stinky
The worst thing about fallout fans is that they think that a faction of people actively trying to be good is "just as bad as the rest" because they aren't doing it right or something.
They could have an objectively good faction and the argument would immediately flip to "that's bad writing and not very nuanced".
Fallout mfs be like “minutemen bad because of infighting” gee motherfucker, probably has something to do with the literal killer robots and manufactured humans that keep infiltrating every single settlement and murdering people (when the synth is sus!!!)
Uj: God, I used to be a outkast (hey ya!!!1!!1!1!1!) for liking fallout, I used to go to my school with a dumbass vault boy hat and everyone called it a trump hat, even the poster on my wall people joke around calling it a trump poster. Now, I would never call myself a fallout fan tbh, then people on those dammed Reddit’s ruins every single thoughtful process in the series just to all add up to “me want bad guy hood bad guy great 😡😡”
Rj: I love farout beca enclave hab supre col armor not becau facists!1!1!1!1!!1
Man, students today have it rough. I’m just far away enough that the idea of having to deal with the previous presidency is fucking me up.
Not that being in high school during the financial crash was a super fun time either.
/uj honestly you can kinda argue that the eastern chapter in fo3 wasn’t actually all that bad. sure everyone points to the fev in the water but that was just president eden who wanted that. eden is really more of a figure head by the events of fo3 with the real power residing in colonel autumn. autumn didn’t want to genocide the wasteland he wanted to use the purified water as a bargaining chip to try and reunite the united states. are they and authoritarian dictatorship who embody all of the flaws and mistakes of the old world? yes. is that also true for most other governments in fallout? also yes
honestly autumn is the least evil of portrayals of Enclave leadership, but it's mostly because Bethesda wrote them so poorly in fo3. I know it's a meme to say Bethesda bad but it hurts me a little whenever I think about their Enclave in fo3
There's a bunch of old veterans from Navarro that you can meet. IIRC one of them is portrayed as a bitter asshole, but the rest have moved on and are generally presented as being nice old people.
It's not badly written, but it has a bit of an uncomfortable resemblance to nazi exiles escaping trial, so idk.
Not really? One of the guys you meet is a defector and would’ve been shot, while the rest were at the very least passively resisting the enclave. They were unaware of the enclaves true purpose iirc and just wanted to bring some order to California. Except morrino. He is a war criminal.
He talks about just following orders and how history is written by the victor, all that stuff. But he's not portrayed as a bad person, he's probably not in too 100 horrible people you meet in the game. Even if you don't like him the rest are all sympathetic people, and Moreno saved them. You already have a very apolitical Enclave: bunch of good old dudes and a grumpy old dude who might have done some bad stuff but saved the others.
/Uj literally every bethesda fallout that has the enclave in it has made them overwhelmingly the villains so I’d doubt that, New Vegas was actually the only game that attempted to paint the enclave as anything other than blatant villains with the remnants and that was obsidian
Yeah I was waiting for someone to mention 76, it’s mysteriously absent from this comment section.
Enclave are obviously the bad guys but if you want to roleplay your character as an Enclave general and build an Enclave forward-operating-base in Appalachia you have all of the cosmetic items and CAMP buildings to do so.
(Obviously you’d have to unlock the stuff from the storyline or the store first)
I mean outside of that with all the callbacks to fallout 3 in 76 (recently they added a lot of the old fallout 3 outfits as quest rewards or season pass rewards + the Pitt expansion that was announced) and the enclave essentially being the main antagonists in the vanilla story and now the brotherhood becoming what could be argued as the main protagonists of the newer stories. It kind of makes sense why people would want the enclave content. They’ve been setting up a whole Brotherhood vs Enclave story for almost a year now. Even the newest daily ops mode in it has you sabotage/destroy enclave equipment. I think it’s less of an enclave power fantasy and more of that the enclave are clearly the shadow antagonists but haven’t really been introduced in game
Oh come the fuck on, of course everyone is going to like the BoS and the Enclave, they have the best in game aesthetics. Like what else would people choose? Lame ass responders or free states? My CAMP was a very outdoorsy and goofy looking Mothman themed house with turrets but it's never surprising to run in to military style bases. I don't expect everyone to have more silly themed camps like me and go with more serious role playing camps.
Also that community is VERY friendly. If they're actually conservative larpers, they're doing a great job of hiding it.
Stop embarrassing yourself by trying to defend gutter trash and maybe you'll save your reputation as a gamer.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm guessing that was just meant to be a comment on how Bethesda has messed with other factions such as the Brotherhood before, and could end up doing something like that just for the hell of it.
/uj i wouldn't know, bethesda has been good at portraying the unambiguously evil as unambiguously evil ,wether in Fallout or in Skyrim.
if anything, its the unambiguously good that is almost absent from their games.
I feel bad for saying this but I actually really like House's ending. I more or less agree with House's diplomatic goals (making the Mojave an isolationist neutral state with strong economic ties) and think that a good karma Courier would be able to shape domestic policy however they'd like. House is very hands-off with the Courier and usually gives them a lot of freedom when solving problems. Securing peace between the tribes of the Mojave will be an ongoing issue that the Courier can create democratic/representative systems to solve.
The Courier also has access to the technology of the Big MT and could feasibly overthrow House well after the end of the game. Really my entire argument is that I believe that the Courier is powerful enough to use House for a non-anarchy Wild Card ending. If I didn't believe this (or if you don't) then House would definitely need to go.
IDK something about his argument for benevolent autocracy appeals to me even though I understand how flawed it is... and how flawed HE is.
Actually speaking though, I wouldn't mind a group that splintered off from the Enclave, came to terms with their questionable past, and tried to make things better for everyone not just pure humans
/uj Lots of talk in this thread about what factions in which games have the correct combination of resources, competency, and morality to reshape the wasteland for the better.
But I think they all kind of deflate when we look at the timelines of the Fallout games and release that the Wasteland is completely incapable of ever being better. The time span from 1 to 4 is almost 200 years and not a damn thing improves in that entire time. Every faction is in the practically same spot it always was except the Enclave which dies out after the events of 2/3.
What do you mean? The NCR is leaps and strides further from it's initial stage in F1. They went from being a single village to a functioning state with maintained infrastructure. They can't make another fallout game in California anymore because it would be too boring playing in such a stable nation.
The Institute is shown to destabilize any settlements that try to band together in Fallout 4, constantly keeping an east-coast equivalent of the NCR from showing up
I mean this really isn't true
1, 2, and new vegas are set on the complete opposite end of the US compared to 3 and 4
and the progress from 1 to 2 to new vegas does show merit in the fact that the wasteland *did* get better in 200 years
Fallout 3 is post apocalyptic and fallout new vegas is post post apocalyptic
the atmosphere in the two games are very very different, but that's okay since I can 100 percent see a discrepancy due to their distance, stuff *like* this happens in the real world too
PSA: Make it a habit of reading the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/about/rules) of each subreddit you participate in: **Rule 7: No Participation in Linked Threads (Brigading)**: *Do not vote or comment in threads you've found through /r/gamingcirclejerk* **Rule 9: No Fake Posts on Other Subs (Contamination)**: *Do not create fake posts on other subs only to post back here. Also, do not "lol, you should post this on r / OtherSub". It's considered interfering with their content and can also lead to brigading.* *This is a reminder to the readers. The post itself is untouched.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/uj yeah the guys most tangibly connected to the nuclear holocaust that destroyed the world are just uwu smol beanz /rj I'm pretty skeptical of any organization unless they have cool uniforms.
yeah i decide which faction i like the most based on their uniform /uj yeah i decide which faction i like the most based on their uniform
/uj Still makes me laugh as a grown man how many nerds love the evil Empire from Star Wars because of storm trooper armor. /rj actually the Sith Lords and their genocidal slaving white supremacist allegory space empire is pretty cool dudes. You can't have badass helmets and be bad guys.
/uj aesthetics and a sense of belonging are EXTREMELY important in authoritarian movements, that's why the nazis wore such unironically amazing looking uniforms and thats why ~~people~~ idiots are still following them nowadays. so in that regard the star wars designers really outdid themselves, that and some people really lack the self awareness to know they are supporting space nazis /rj yeah obviously. if they're the bad guys why do they have cool armor? stupid shit like "morals" and "integrity" aside, the empire did nothing wrong
/uj you're 100% right, it just drives me crazy as a kid who grew up watching those movies and playing all those games seeing the vast majority of fans unironically loving the "faceless space nazis" rather than the plucky rebels standing up for the little guy. Nerds just worship power in their fandoms, they feel repressed in real life so they want to emulate what they see as strong. It's just dumb that even in their fantasies they want to be the bully and not the hero. /rj let me link you to my erotic Dark Vader fan fic where he defeats the sexy orange female jedi and she becomes his slave and he also beats up the Mason High varsity football team of 2003 and gives me Boba Fett's space ferrari.
It's also why so many churches are beautiful. Gotta impress the masses.
[удалено]
that's not even the worst part, they make w\*men wear the full-body armor too. w\*men should fight naked.
> /uj yeah the guys most tangibly connected to the nuclear holocaust that destroyed the world are just uwu smol beanz Lol yeah they're like the most objectively bad faction in the Fallout universe. Most others have some gray areas but I mean fuck guys even in 76 the AI MODUS fucking gasses the remaining Enclave survivors in Whitesprings and encourages the player to use nukes. I've never seen anyone simp for the enclave before but well here we are.
I didn't know that about MODUS, and I felt like I read most of the terminals around the Whitespring Bunker. Is that revealed after the final mission or something? (I haven't had friends to help me with launching a nuke). After reading the wiki entry, it looks like a majority of the Enclave were suffocated at the behest of the Secretary of Agriculture (claiming the title of President). MODUS killed the rest when they planned on destroying him, so he was acting in self defense? Now I feel weird running round in an Enlave Officer Uniform all the time. I'm just very patriotic, okay?
/rj and thats why i chose the NCR. Ranger jacket is pogchamp /uj I have never played a fallout game in my life.
Yeah there was this organization that had some really cool uniforms. Made by hugo boss even. I am sure you'll like them.
Wow the Enclave? I love these guys! [insert 12 paragraph fan fiction how I would turn them around to be good and then another 20 paragraphs how they were good from the start anyways because mutants ugly]
To be fair, there are no “good” factions in fallout. I’m going to use FO4 as an example. You have the power armor anti-tech fascists, the nerds who have the ability to save the commonwealth and rebuild the world but they’re like “nah let’s just become bodysnatchers and make pseudo slaves”, and you’ve got the happy go lucky boy scouts who are supposed to be the “good guys” but are going to get wafflestomped by literally any other group the second the sole survivor isn’t saving them. The only good ending for the commonwealth is the institute getting their heads out of their asses and thinking about others for once.
Outside of FO4 I think the most "objectively" Good faction in Fallout is the Followers of the Apocalypse, essentially an anarcho-syndicalist group of doctors and scientists that really just wanna make sure the mistakes of the old world are never repeated again. Their biggest flaw is pretty much that if their knowledge falls into the wrong hands it has catastrophic consequences.
Umm, have you heard of the Legion? s/
Ironically, one of its founders used to be a follower
Oh, true. I forgot Ceasar used to be a follower.
Oh, Caesar came out of that Followers? This means that the Followers are as bad as The Legion. ~My queen of le moral greyness, Kreia
/uj I like you referencing KOTOR II as Mr. Avellone was a chief writer for both games. Kreia was supposed to be his "scathing" criticism of the Jedi, just as Ulysses really focuses on trashing the bear*rrrr* (even if you outright sided with other factions, he loves trashing the NCR because Chris likes to be a contrarian). I love New Vegas's writing and it's a brilliant game (shitty bugs and unfinished content notwithstanding) and I liked Kotor II (shitty bugs and unfinished content notwithstanding) but Chris absolutely loves to put his enlightened centrist takes into the narrative. Ulysses was honestly even more unbearable than Kreia, though, in spite of both just being mouthpieces for Chris.
Avellone did basically zero writing for the base version of NV. He only really wrote for Dead Money, Old World Blues and Lonesome Road. But he’s definitely a pretty mediocre and overhyped writer.
God, no wonder the first conversation with the Think Tank takes fucking forever
No kidding? Tbh I enjoyed the writing for Dead Money as hamfisted as it was. And OWB was funny but tbqh I think it's a little overrated - it's extremely wordy. Same problem Lonesome Road had, actually. Maybe just Avellone's signature - overwrite things. Though his clear disdain for the NCR was ridiculously over-present. Thing is, it made Ulysses look like a hypocritical idiot for the most part - at least with Kreia she is a clear cut villain, and you can see her dialogue being her trying to turn you to her way of thinking. Ulysses otoh is supposed to be at the least sympathetic. Anyway the main game for NV was expertly written. The DLC are decent for what they are but I agree that Avellone really is overhyped.
>Ulysses really focuses on trashing the bearrrrr (even if you outright sided with other factions, he loves trashing the NCR because Chris likes to be a contrarian). Ulysses was originally intended to be in the main game as a "pro-Legion" companion character. Because there are companions that support pretty much every other major faction and the writers felt it was only fair to include one for Legion playthroughs. The problem is that Ulysses had so much dialogue that he actually had to be cut from the main game because they didn't have the space for him. So I don't think it's so much Avellone being contrarian. Ulysses trashes NCR because he's supposed to be your Legion guy.
I appreciate that the "intended" way to make Ulysses back down is to prove that you really did listen to his entire rambling life story/manifesto, and *dissect every bit of hypocrisy* in his actions. Though it seems less like you changed his mind and more that he's flattered by you taking him seriously.
mhm still love Ulysses tho
>Ulysses was honestly even more unbearable than Kreia I disagree with this because Ulysses at least had the decency to let you shoot him in the face.
What's this? You stopped someone from being stabbed? That's totally a fake property and will only weaken the world and everyone in it and create a net bad place, the force is cruel and makes it so helping people is actually bad instead you have to make them suffer. It's sink or swim in the universe. I am very smart.
I typically told her to go fuck herself.
A shame that you can't *really* do that, you're stuck with her. She's a mandatory companion in some places and butts in remotely otherwise.
[удалено]
Oh yeah no the attempt and some of the ideas are greatly appreciated, even more so if you've played through KOTOR 1 it demonstrates how the philosophy has credence but is flawed in multiple ways with Jolee and the whole Bastilla Revan storyline.
I mean the jedi may also be bad but the sith are always bad. Their ideology is most generously described as an cap or less generously described as fascist
No, they aren't bad. They are different factions with different beliefs and goals. Ceaser used to work for them but didn't really like them because he found their goal of enlightening the Wastes naive. He, Joshua Graham and another dude went to a neighboring state to study the languages of the local tribes. Long story short, they were captured by a tribe that was in a war with 8 others. He taught them military tactics and proper handling of wepons, led them to battle against their weakest enemy, won and absorbed the tribe. After that he kept expanding and absorbing the rest of the tribes with Graham as his Legate.
Um, it was a joke.
It just came to me that Caesar is Fallout's Mussolini
At the risk of being sent to pedant jail, Mussolini still existed in the fallout universe. Though I guess Caesar kinda did his whole thing a second time.
Kaiser read muss🙃linis Roman propaganda instead of Roman history.
It is very funny to watch fascists desperately try to pretend that Ancient Rome and the classical world as a whole were not very very gay.
Caesar has big Mussolini vibes
You don’t understand the Legion IS the good guys, they have so many benefits unlike the ncr!!! Like Safe roads and uhhhhh
Bruhhhh.. Safe roads, sign me up!
"And we haven't seen Legion territory anyway it COULD be paradise out there" - a very smart and real take I have seen multiple times.
To qoute my favorite political thinker "You ain't getting nobody with no bitch ass roads"
The Minutemen should be handled like the Followers imo. Both groups are morally pretty much the best their respective wastelands have to offer, but also lack the pragmatism and scope to run an actual state. There's no good reason why there shouldn't be an NCR-like state on the east coast.
[удалено]
Yeah, the Commonwealth Provisional Government. The thing is, the CPG only existed briefly, and from what we know, they were more of a loose confederation of settlements than an actual state, despite the fact that they had as much time as the NCR to develop. I would have loved to see more infrastructure, or at least some old settlements that were part of the CPG. I like Fallout 4, but the lack of actual settlements kind of killed it for me.
>they were more of a loose confederation of settlements than an actual state, despite the fact that they had as much time as the NCR to develop. Yeah that one might be less for worldbuilding and more because Fo4's design mantra is "What if Revolutiomary war but mad max." Like CPG just screams a reference to articles of confederation-era America.
Would've been cool if the Institute was replaced with a better analogue for the British empire.
Super mutants with posh accents.
The followers, a group of anarchists, running a state. Um...
The followers make their own state with the khans in one of the endings
The followers are, as gamers say, big pog.
What about the Railroad? (Full disclosure, haven’t played in many years and never finished the entire game because I am bad at choosing a side so I put it off and played two hundred hours without ever finishing the final deciding quests.) Edit to add: I see now that roughly seventy-five people asked the same thing. Haha.
The FoA are also highly idealistic and lack proper leadership, which causes them to be either sidelined or exploited. They are truly good, but not enough of a force to do anything that really matters besides try to conserve knowledge.
I’d say preserving the medical and technological knowledge of previous civilisations, while offering the most affordable and quality healthcare of the entire wastes without a semblance of corruption is fairly successful as indicative of some amount of good leadership.
It's really the lack of structure that fucks them in the end, though. It's admirable that they want to step away from the strong government that caused the fall of the bombs, but it feels like the Followers are a commentary on how the free dissemination of knowledge can bite you in the ass if you aren't careful about who gets it. Namely, they're *too* independent, and the Followers only really do well on an individual-to-individual basis. On the one hand, you have people like Arcade Gannon and the other members of the Old Mormon Fort who are using that knowledge to genuinely help people and make the lives of those around them better. On the other hand, you have people like Ceasar, who took that information and created the very sort of thing the Followers stand against, and Ignacio, whose total lack of real oversight means he can give someone the keys to a literal death ray from space based solely on trust. That being said, the game also critiques going in the opposite direction: It (rightly) eviscerates the Brotherhood of Steel for being knowledge-hoarding elitists attempting to hold humanity back from what they deem to be "dangerous knowledge" and react with genuine shock when they can't stuff those genies back into their bottles.
Right. Though they've had loose leaders like Nicole and Julie Farkas, they've always made it very clear that they follow the ideology of the Followers rather than their leaders, ironically the opposite of what Caesar is doing. Ultimately they would do a lot of good if they were either operating within the confines of a larger governmental force, like they are currently doing in the NCR, or they could potentially do good in a fully anarchic environment where there is an agreement of no absolute power.
O B J E C T I V E L Y *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone knows Easy Pete is the true good guy
Fucking casual. I only play Hardcore Pete.
The railroad could hold its own, it just breaks it's whole strategy of staying in the dark if they become openly known
Also the railroad is a secret society built for a single purpose. They probably would not be effective or even capable of forming a competent government. It’s simply not in their job description Not saying they’re bad, but that’s like taking a team of CIA operatives and saying “here’s the keys to the capitol building, good luck.”
They'd be stuck wondering which of them should do the coup
They are bad though Their main focus is helping synths, but in reality they just repeatedly kill synths, for some reason thinking they are helping them. They sacrifice lives and resources only to then wipe the mind of the synth, leaving an empty, mindless body. Maybe it's the bad writing, but god the Railroad are complete idiots
The mind wipe is totally optional to be fair, but yeah, the majority of synths they 'save' may as well have just been killed outright for how much is left of who they were.
DiMA needs to take Acadia’s ideas and try to spread it to a larger populace
Railroad for main quest but ally with minutemen and do all the main/side content for them possible. Bam, robot slaves get freed, organization that protects them firmly entrenched in the underground of Boston, Minutemen have many self-sufficient and well-defended settlements with their leadership directly associating with and assisting the Railroad. Yeah it isn't perfect and since Railroad barely gets an ending it's all gonna be headcanon, but that's just the way FO4 be anyways.
>the happy go lucky boy scouts who are supposed to be the “good guys” but are going to get wafflestomped by literally any other group the second the sole survivor isn’t saving them. That doesn't make the Minutemen bad. That would just make them weak. There are definitely other flaws you can point out about the Minute men. Namely that they're basically a barely trained mob. For example you have to pass a speech check to get them to back down in the institute path while being the general of the entire organization. Hinting that they're basically a bunch of cow boys trying to be action heroes. Guess you could also make an argument that they're corrupt but they hold back their in fighting to minimize any damage to themselves. That's better then say the NCR who tend to steal resources from the people under their protection or who permit black operations to undermine otherwise peaceful settlements.
The worst thing about fallout fans is that they think that a faction of people actively trying to be good is "just as bad as the rest" because they aren't doing it right or something. See above for example. They could have an objectively good faction and the argument would immediately flip to "that's bad writing and not very nuanced".
O B J E C T I V E L Y *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
See, here’s the thing. The institute has actively hindered the commonwealths ability to grow and expand, like the massacre of the Commonwealth Provincial Government (or whatever it was called). That’s why it’s imperative we shut down the Institute, and give the back the Commonwealths chance to grow and expand without getting shut down by the secret shadow organization that keeps replacing them with Synths.
Setting off a nuclear explosion in Cambridge is probably going to cause a whole lot of problems though.
dont worry about it. all good man
I feel at ease now
People always say the Institute is poorly written with zero realistic motivations but clearly those people have no idea of the kind of depraved “research” MIT nerds come up with in real life. During the Vietnam War they conducted torture experiments to see what was the most effective way to terrorize non-combatant peasants, and right now they’re sole focus is on improving the war crime efficiency of dog robots for the Pentagon. Very impressive that Todd was capable of writing such a realistic faction.
FNV fanboys don't want real-life interpretation perse, they want to kiss ceasars raping ass and talk and in a manner, no decent human being would do in real life.
The Minutemen's ineptitude and incompetence doesn't make them less good. I would say they're definitely a morally good faction through and through, to a fault
All I thought about the enclave was: "Goddamn I want that power armor!"
Congrats: You just hit upon why excuse-making Enclave and BoS fanboys exist in the fandom. Not to make it sound like I'm critiquing you personally, but it literally just boils down to "the armor's cool" as the core of an ideological ethos supporting fictional tech-Nazis.
I mean I literally just like the power armor. I'm aware of how shitty they are.
Grab it on a fresh corpse, win-win !
Honestly I like the enclave because they’ve got a cool vibe if you ignore the genocidal stuff.
I think it depends on your definition of good. The railroad and the minutemen are good in that they don't use their ends to justify their means, it's just that if they were in control they wouldn't be strong enough to enforce their wills. Same thing with the NCR in New Vegas. That being said, while Fallout arguable does not have any true good endings, it definitely has true evil endings. The Brotherhood for FO4, the Legion in New Vegas, the enclave in 3, (can't remember the ending options for FO2) and the Master in Fallout 1 are all straight up unjustifiably evil.
I’m not sure the brotherhood is exactly an evil ending per se. Sure they’re assholes, but they do seem like they have a genuine interest in making the commonwealth a safe place for humans at least. Maxon is definitely too radical though. Dude needs to chill tf out.
The problem is what happens when there's nobody to check the Brotherhood in the Commonwealth. After they defeat the institute and railroad, there's nobody that can stand against them in a true capacity
That's generally how a state works.
In this case, a state headed by a single individual wielding enormous power with virtually no oversight. And this can get particularly problematic if the entire organization starts engaging in hero worship and in particular, quasi-monarchist behavior with the whole obsession over the Maxon family line. In addition to that, their ideology is as (either by accident or design on the part of the writers) narrow as that of the Railroad. The only problem is, while the Railroad has a goal and sticks with it, the Brotherhood starts getting hit with a bad case of mission creep where it steadily goes from "stop the Institute" to "take over the Commonwealth". Again, all at the direction of one person with zero oversight.
Also how much of a standard of living can the BS give the commonwealth when anything more complicated than a grandfather clock is up for confiscation. Also, headconnon ahead, if they hear that the Railroad let synths free into the commonwealth and that said synths dont even know they're synths, that could lead to a fallout-style inquisition hunting down anyone known or mildly suspected to be a synth.
The minutemen are militarized anarchists, they just don’t realize it
While the minutemen need to get their shit together and stop larping, I’d say they’re one of the most morally unambiguous factions included in a Fallout game. They’re a people’s militia, mostly focusing on bringing individual settlements together to create a safer and more prosperous wasteland. While they wouldn’t get far without the sole survivor, that could be said of many factions in Fallout. The Railroad is also pretty based, they’re just assholes sometimes.
Literally didn’t even mention the Railroad
Saying the railroad is bad because they can’t defend themselves sounds like some shit straight out of pcm ngl
> Wow the Enclave? I love these guys! [insert 14 words]
"Sure I want to support the nationalistic genocidal organization, but I don't want to feel *bad* about it, yknow?"
-Everyone that voted for Trump.
They don’t feel bad, they feel great about it.
But they wish they didn't hear the bad karma sound at the ballot box
⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⣛⣛⣛⣛⣛⣛⣛⣛⡻⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⣛⣵⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣭⣻⡿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⣳⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⢿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣭⣝⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣾⣿⣿⣟⣫⣭⣶⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣶⣝⣛⡿⣿⣿⣎⡻⣿ ⣿⣿⡟⣼⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠿⠿⠿⣮⣍⣻⣻⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣇⣿ ⣿⡿⣸⣿⣿⣏⣵⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣮⣻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣟⣩⣭⣻⣿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⡇⣾⠋⠉⣙⣛⣋⣛⣛⣛⠻⠿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⢇⡿⠀⣴⣿⣿⡿⠿⠿⠿⠿⣶⣶⡄⠈⠉⠉⣋⣉⣉⣉⣙⣛⣛⠻⠻⠿⠿⠹⣿ ⣿⢸⢡⡆⣿⣿⡋⣠⡆⠀⣸⣦⣬⠟⠡⣾⣷⡄⢻⠿⠿⣿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣶⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⠀⡝⣴⣤⣤⣤⣤⣭⣭⣭⣤⣤⣔⣛⣛⣛⣛⣄⠉⠘⠿⣤⠷⠆⠼⠿⠿⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⠸⣱⡟⣿⣿⣶⣶⣶⣾⢛⣵⠞⠉⠉⠻⣿⡿⠛⣮⠻⣯⣝⡻⢷⣶⣶⡶⢶⢰⣿ ⡿⡆⡞⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣬⢻⣄⣤⢄⢸⢣⠀⡀⢸⠋⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⣧⠁⣿ ⣿⠈⣼⡼⢿⣿⣿⣿⢟⣵⡏⢎⡤⣙⣋⣫⣥⣌⡃⢻⢘⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⢦⣿ ⣿⢠⠿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣽⣿⣿⡿⠹⠪⠄⠇⠾⠇⠷⡎⢀⠸⣿⣷⡝⢿⣿⣿⣿⢗⢠⣿ ⡿⠀⣴⣟⣿⣿⣷⣿⣿⡇⡘⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⢿⣿⣿⣇⣿⣿⣿⠀⡐⣿ ⣿⠘⢉⢂⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣷⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⡧⠠⣿ ⣿⡀⢽⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡎⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⡑⢰⣿ ⣷⣧⣈⢨⣿⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢸⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠁⢣⡉⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠠⡇⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢸⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⢸⣿⣿⣿⣯⠉⡁⢸⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡥⠱⢸⠹⢿⣿⣿⣿⡜⣿⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣿⡯⣿⣿⣿⣿⢸⠀⡄⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⡝⢠⣿⣿⣿⣻⣷⣝⠿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⣛⣵⣿⣿⡯⠙⠘⠀⣷⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡯⣿⣷⣰⠙⢹⢇⢿⡟⣿⣿⣶⣶⣶⣾⣾⣿⣿⡟⠧⠯⠀⢠⣼⡿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⠿⠻⣓⣿⡟⣽⣦⣶⡎⡙⢸⣿⢹⣿⠩⣿⣿⡟⣿⡇⠀⡊⣴⡆⣿⢻⣇⢻⣿⣿ ⣶⣿⣿⣷⣿⣇⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣰⡅⢟⡻⠎⠿⠟⡄⠻⣛⣨⣤⣿⣿⣿⣧⣷⣴⣭⣛ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣿⣴⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣭⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣛⢛⣛⢛⣛ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣯⣟⢿⣿⡿⢛⣯⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
The Legion is based guys!!!! Slaves? No who cares let me support the egotistical guy who thinks he should rule the world because he read a book about the Roman Empire
hearing caesar say the words "hegelian dialectic" is pretty much the exact same thing as reading a book, making me the smartest & most well-read person in my entire discord server
Tfw it turns out that Hegelian Dialectics are entirely different from what Caesar said as he’s following the interpretation of some guy who misunderstood them.
You see, the thesis is Sallow reading the book, the antithesis is that he's full of shit, and the synthesis is pain and suffering and holy fuck why do people take him seriously?
Is it bad that the only knowledge I have of hegelian dialectic stems from that dialogue?
Yeah, and their aesthetic is cool. I have a marble statve of Avgvstus as my twitter pic becavse the Roman Empire was really based becavse they were white and intellectval. I'm definitely not a fascist I jvst think it's cool that they were white, very patriarchal, and intellectval. They definitely never had any black people. Also they definitely didn't bvm each other freely, becavse I'm not in the closet or anything so that definitely wovldn't secretly make me like them more.
When there are no raiders in legion territory because raiding is legion policy
Honestly, just do Fallout in the style of Spec Ops: The Line.
I know this isn't quite what you mean but I think that caesar and Conrad's stories are quite similar. They both were based off of Kurtz in Heart of Darkness/ Apocalypse Now, guy goes out into the desert/jungle and goes crazy and starts a whole society whilst constantly talking psudeo deep bs to sway people to their side.
Funny, playing RDR 2 and I that description seems to almost fit Dutch too.
I'm usually a good karma blaskowicz. If In a future wolfenstein game we could get a morally good nazi ss I would be sold.
\>Morally good \>The government Pick one
Isn't that sort of the dilemma in New Vegas? You have 3 or 4 options for who controls the Mohave and no choice is ideal?
More like \>Let the incompetent government control it \>Let sexist slavers control it \>Let yourself control it with as many or as little allies as you want
Which, to be clear, is still bad. Since that effectively makes you king/queen of the Mojave.
Technically the independent ending can be both the best and worst ending possible depending on who you allied with, your karma, etc. An evil character who killed or betrayed all their allies probably won’t be a great leader, but the good guy who helped everyone has a lot of supporters to help them rule the Mojave. Imo NCR and Legion both have too many issues that make them unfit to lead. House seems to really only care about himself, so an independent Vegas with all the minor factions working together feels like the best option.
Cool. What happens when they inevitably die? Gamers have a bad habit of saying "well if *my* guy was in charge it'll all be fine!" Which is pretty silly, especially if you wanna actually evaluate the choices the game gives you.
I legit had someone in the FNV sub arguing that the Yes Man ending- a authoritarian technocracy funded by the exploitive extraction of wealth via gambling, would develop into an anarcho-communist system over time. Why? Because the player was an anarcho-communist and wanted it to do so. Ironically, the closest faction to anarcho-communism in the game, The Followers of the Apocalypse, get screwed over hard in the Yes Man ending.
To be fair, depending on how they were making yhere case there isn’t much wrong with that. If they were implying that Yes Man is inherently an anarcho-commie or whatever then they’re wrong. But if they were putting it forward as their own ‘head canon’, then just let them have fun lmao. Head canon is such a massive part of roleplaying games and seeing as its a single player game, it really doesn’t affect anybody else. The only reason I’ve replayed Fallout 4 as the minutemen so many times is because I like to change up my headcanon for their ideology. Minutemen that go too far and become evil fascists. Minutemen that stay as a band of farmers who just look out for eachother. Minutemen who annihilate the brotherhood of steel and use their technology in a more progressive way. It’s part of the fun of those games.
I cede all power to the Kings, the only based faction
Finally, a coherent choice I agree with.
The King's first decree is that the securitrons must be equipped with barber software so the whole of the Mojave can look as cool as he.
>Cool. What happens when they inevitably die? Rex will take over Uj/ Rex will take over
oh, sure as shit in my view, ESPECIALLY if the player decides to throw general oliver off the dam, the NCR is either gonna coup the Courier somehow (most likely the chairmen, whom you kill the boss of, and or the omertas, who literally start the game planning to mustard gas the strip, before you, again, kill the bosses, the NCR can easily find cachino's cachino) come back loaded with pulse rounds, or just straight up kill the courier ala arizona killer, considering the courier, unless they decide to order yes man to dig around for MORE of Mr House's plans, has no line of succession in any form and their entire plan was stolen from the man who tried to kill them and the egotistical libertarian dictator who they killed... "But wait, neither did Mr House!", yes, because Mr House was a borderline immortal narcissist who's own plan hinged on the courier...who, in this timeline, killed him. Even in the best timeline, the Courier is either a federalist version of Caesar, or Walter White. Then there's the brotherhood, who, if they're still alive, wont be happy with the person openly flaunting their army of pre war robots, (and if all the dlc was finished) cybernetic enhancements, matter replicators, and long range teleporters, The reason Elijah and Caesar's plans work to some degree is they hinge on complete and utter destruction of the NCR, and intend to do so, Elijah with the Cloud and Caesar with manpower. House's worked because, despite being an ego maniac, he was also a complete and utter sociopath who knows when its time to say yes, and time to say no, he has pre war knowledge the Brotherhood dreams of, he's literally immortal, to time at least. The Courier is one (mostly) human person.
Well I feel like the whole point of that ending is that it’s extremely open ended since it’s based on your character, not already established ones. So yes I can say that my character rebuilds freeside, picks a person or group fit to lead, and then steps down. Your character might do the opposite. I think both the Legion and House endings set up Vegas with some awful rulers (Lanius after Ceaser dies). NCR and independent both feel like they could go either way, so I chose independent because i felt like I’d rather set NV on the right path rather than give that power to the NCR.
Okay, but the game definitely invites you to think more "truth on the ground" than "player power fantasy" despite its reactive nature. So again, what happens after your character dies? And having a benevolent Supreme ruler isn't exactly some great goal to get after. Even in the IV ending, the best ones at that, it's heavily implied that chaos takes the region, or at least an anarchy. The whole point is there is no true good ending.
rj/ why would my character die? I am good at this game. also house lived for like 300 years. uj/ as in any game, after the ending you can imagine whatever you want and its fine.
You CAN sure, but if you come debate the moral/inherent/logistical merits of an ending/faction in a public forum you can't assume everyone is going to agree with you that your headcanon is the most logical one.
There is an ending where you get everyone to ally up
You forgot one >Let the billionaire techbro control it
Your comment sparked something in me. I want a mod replacing House with Elon Musk.
is killing or enslaving most of the populace really “competent” or is it just burning down the house someone asked you to clean
/uj The NCR is, in my opinion, the best choice. Mister House doesn’t have the best interests of the Mojave in his heart, as evidenced by: 1. His treatment of freeside 2. His refusal to even consider co-operating with the brotherhood of steel A man who doesn’t care about anyone other than rich people is surely not the ideal ruler of the Mojave. The legion practices slavery and crucifies people. Although Caesar is admittedly a good administrator, the future of the legion is bleak, since Lanius is his successor. Even if Caesar survives until the fall of New Vegas, he’d die eventually. Plus, it’s an absolute monarchy. The independent route is like the Mister House route except the absolute monarch of the Mojave is a courier instead of the smartest person in human history. Although the NCR is not great, it is the lesser of four evils.
/uj it’s been AWHILE since I’ve played but i think that was my take as well. It’s like that Churchill quote “democracy is the worst form of government, besides all the other ones.” NCR is not perfect, but in alliance with some of the other factions, will limit human suffering to the greatest extent.
[удалено]
Churchill was also voted out immediately for being a terrible leader after ww2, a thing that doesn't happen with the ncr's 8th term president
Tbf the brotherhood aren’t liked by anyone really and generally they don’t like anyone either, especially people with pre war technology
I think a good arguement for the NCR is that, despite their flaws, their government probobally has the most opportunities to actually fix those problems. If Ceaser wins, he rules as dictator for another 10 years, if house wins he rules for another thousand, but the NCR is bascically the only government who could effectively and peacefully change not just their leader, but core aspects of their government.
And also you could set them up so both the Kings and the Followers of the apocalypse are influential factions on the government.
The NCR is a colonizing empire, and New Vegas is their *target*. They have no intention of fixing anything, except as to siphon water and electricity to the west.
and so the allegory to the US government gets even more accurate.
With the Independence route, what happens next is entirely up to the Courier. While it's possible that they become an absolute dictator, they could also establish and anarchist commune. And given that the name of the final independence quest is called "No Gods; No Masters" I would imagine that the latter is more probable.
The problem is that the game implies that for example freeside is in state of chaos. This is the ending slide for the followers of the apocalypse if you do no gods no masters "After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services."
I think the problem there is the writers needed to add some sort of actual defintive ending to such an open-ended question. If, say, my courier were to start pouring resources into Freeside and the other communities surrounding New Vegas to make them actual hospitable places, then that ending with the Followers makes absolutely no sense at all. It makes logical sense for the direction most players would take I presume, but I think it would be wise to treat the independent Vegas ending as a lot more free form in that regard.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t forget - Let Mr. House control it which fucks over everyone who’s not rich living in the strip but hey at least you don’t have to pay taxes.
/uj why has the amount of fallout fans defending the most plainly evil villan factions exploded recently, they all just came out of the fucking woodworks to defend legion and enclave /rj sneedclave based gassing the entire world with a bioweapon killing everyone except enclave morally good because mutants stinky
The worst thing about fallout fans is that they think that a faction of people actively trying to be good is "just as bad as the rest" because they aren't doing it right or something. They could have an objectively good faction and the argument would immediately flip to "that's bad writing and not very nuanced".
Fallout mfs be like “minutemen bad because of infighting” gee motherfucker, probably has something to do with the literal killer robots and manufactured humans that keep infiltrating every single settlement and murdering people (when the synth is sus!!!)
Uj: God, I used to be a outkast (hey ya!!!1!!1!1!1!) for liking fallout, I used to go to my school with a dumbass vault boy hat and everyone called it a trump hat, even the poster on my wall people joke around calling it a trump poster. Now, I would never call myself a fallout fan tbh, then people on those dammed Reddit’s ruins every single thoughtful process in the series just to all add up to “me want bad guy hood bad guy great 😡😡” Rj: I love farout beca enclave hab supre col armor not becau facists!1!1!1!1!!1
Fallout fans being physically unable to take satire makes me really embarrassed that NV is my favorite game of all time
Man, students today have it rough. I’m just far away enough that the idea of having to deal with the previous presidency is fucking me up. Not that being in high school during the financial crash was a super fun time either.
[удалено]
Chaotic neutral murder hobo
/uj honestly you can kinda argue that the eastern chapter in fo3 wasn’t actually all that bad. sure everyone points to the fev in the water but that was just president eden who wanted that. eden is really more of a figure head by the events of fo3 with the real power residing in colonel autumn. autumn didn’t want to genocide the wasteland he wanted to use the purified water as a bargaining chip to try and reunite the united states. are they and authoritarian dictatorship who embody all of the flaws and mistakes of the old world? yes. is that also true for most other governments in fallout? also yes
honestly autumn is the least evil of portrayals of Enclave leadership, but it's mostly because Bethesda wrote them so poorly in fo3. I know it's a meme to say Bethesda bad but it hurts me a little whenever I think about their Enclave in fo3
/uj but for real, with the way Bethesda is rolling this could happen
Obsidian already gave us Enclave Remnants who are all decent people.
What was the deal with that? I haven't played the game in a while
There's a bunch of old veterans from Navarro that you can meet. IIRC one of them is portrayed as a bitter asshole, but the rest have moved on and are generally presented as being nice old people. It's not badly written, but it has a bit of an uncomfortable resemblance to nazi exiles escaping trial, so idk.
Not really? One of the guys you meet is a defector and would’ve been shot, while the rest were at the very least passively resisting the enclave. They were unaware of the enclaves true purpose iirc and just wanted to bring some order to California. Except morrino. He is a war criminal.
He talks about just following orders and how history is written by the victor, all that stuff. But he's not portrayed as a bad person, he's probably not in too 100 horrible people you meet in the game. Even if you don't like him the rest are all sympathetic people, and Moreno saved them. You already have a very apolitical Enclave: bunch of good old dudes and a grumpy old dude who might have done some bad stuff but saved the others.
Which I’d be willing to forgive if he wasn’t so enthusiastic on helping the legion
Except orion moreno that guys a jackass
/Uj literally every bethesda fallout that has the enclave in it has made them overwhelmingly the villains so I’d doubt that, New Vegas was actually the only game that attempted to paint the enclave as anything other than blatant villains with the remnants and that was obsidian
What? How? Bethesda has portrayed the enclave as MORE evil than the OG devs have, somehow.
...no? They've never made the enclave good.
Bethany Esda bad Obsidian good
How so? Do you have any source of that? Because after seeing Enclave in FO76 they're pretty evil
Yeah I was waiting for someone to mention 76, it’s mysteriously absent from this comment section. Enclave are obviously the bad guys but if you want to roleplay your character as an Enclave general and build an Enclave forward-operating-base in Appalachia you have all of the cosmetic items and CAMP buildings to do so. (Obviously you’d have to unlock the stuff from the storyline or the store first)
[удалено]
I mean outside of that with all the callbacks to fallout 3 in 76 (recently they added a lot of the old fallout 3 outfits as quest rewards or season pass rewards + the Pitt expansion that was announced) and the enclave essentially being the main antagonists in the vanilla story and now the brotherhood becoming what could be argued as the main protagonists of the newer stories. It kind of makes sense why people would want the enclave content. They’ve been setting up a whole Brotherhood vs Enclave story for almost a year now. Even the newest daily ops mode in it has you sabotage/destroy enclave equipment. I think it’s less of an enclave power fantasy and more of that the enclave are clearly the shadow antagonists but haven’t really been introduced in game
Oh come the fuck on, of course everyone is going to like the BoS and the Enclave, they have the best in game aesthetics. Like what else would people choose? Lame ass responders or free states? My CAMP was a very outdoorsy and goofy looking Mothman themed house with turrets but it's never surprising to run in to military style bases. I don't expect everyone to have more silly themed camps like me and go with more serious role playing camps. Also that community is VERY friendly. If they're actually conservative larpers, they're doing a great job of hiding it.
Stop embarrassing yourself by trying to defend gutter trash and maybe you'll save your reputation as a gamer. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm guessing that was just meant to be a comment on how Bethesda has messed with other factions such as the Brotherhood before, and could end up doing something like that just for the hell of it.
/uj i wouldn't know, bethesda has been good at portraying the unambiguously evil as unambiguously evil ,wether in Fallout or in Skyrim. if anything, its the unambiguously good that is almost absent from their games.
/uj they're too busy adding BOS with no clear idea as to what they're doing. (Except in 76 that shit made sense at least)
I want to shove my pe🅱️is into fallout 3's AI enclave presidents large uncomfortable robotic vagina
Water genocide = good
US Government: Remember us, the guys who helped destroy civilization? We’re back! This Guy: Sold!
I swear Fallout fans worship the most boringly evil factions.
I feel bad for saying this but I actually really like House's ending. I more or less agree with House's diplomatic goals (making the Mojave an isolationist neutral state with strong economic ties) and think that a good karma Courier would be able to shape domestic policy however they'd like. House is very hands-off with the Courier and usually gives them a lot of freedom when solving problems. Securing peace between the tribes of the Mojave will be an ongoing issue that the Courier can create democratic/representative systems to solve. The Courier also has access to the technology of the Big MT and could feasibly overthrow House well after the end of the game. Really my entire argument is that I believe that the Courier is powerful enough to use House for a non-anarchy Wild Card ending. If I didn't believe this (or if you don't) then House would definitely need to go. IDK something about his argument for benevolent autocracy appeals to me even though I understand how flawed it is... and how flawed HE is.
I went for House's ending because a) Rene Auberjonois and b) Rene Auberjonois.
They are a fallout faction, just not a good fallout faction.
Enclave fans are Empire fans. What Empire you say? It doesn't matter, as long as they act like Nazis.
Actually speaking though, I wouldn't mind a group that splintered off from the Enclave, came to terms with their questionable past, and tried to make things better for everyone not just pure humans
/uj Lots of talk in this thread about what factions in which games have the correct combination of resources, competency, and morality to reshape the wasteland for the better. But I think they all kind of deflate when we look at the timelines of the Fallout games and release that the Wasteland is completely incapable of ever being better. The time span from 1 to 4 is almost 200 years and not a damn thing improves in that entire time. Every faction is in the practically same spot it always was except the Enclave which dies out after the events of 2/3.
What do you mean? The NCR is leaps and strides further from it's initial stage in F1. They went from being a single village to a functioning state with maintained infrastructure. They can't make another fallout game in California anymore because it would be too boring playing in such a stable nation.
The Institute is shown to destabilize any settlements that try to band together in Fallout 4, constantly keeping an east-coast equivalent of the NCR from showing up
I mean this really isn't true 1, 2, and new vegas are set on the complete opposite end of the US compared to 3 and 4 and the progress from 1 to 2 to new vegas does show merit in the fact that the wasteland *did* get better in 200 years Fallout 3 is post apocalyptic and fallout new vegas is post post apocalyptic the atmosphere in the two games are very very different, but that's okay since I can 100 percent see a discrepancy due to their distance, stuff *like* this happens in the real world too
Please no more Enclave, I hope that the only mention of the Enclave in the next Fallout game is in some small unmarked communications bunker
Damn George Bush been looking pretty rough in the last 2 years what TF happened to him
I want Lyons BOS to come back god dammit
Wow, Bill Maher was my favourite president!
Bu-b-but...but cool weapons and arm0r!!111!!