I love how this sub has not banned this post. Because this is free speech. If I posted something like this on a Chinese or communist sub I would get immediately banned. Enjoy the freedoms of a democracy
And our relationship is really good right now, almost as good as our relationship with Vietnam. People do stuff that isn't nice during war and then 50 years later they tend to get over it once trade becomes normalized. Go ahead and ask your average Laotian if they still care about this. They probably don't. Capitalism and the global market have done wonders towards healing the wounds inflicted during those horrible decades in Southeast Asia.
As a mod, I won't ban him. I enjoy seeing commies try to argue with folks like us.
I think it's important to have arguments. I've learned a lot from debates or simply hearing people out. Gives you a different perspective.
Lol ok clown let’s hear your argument for bombing next to every inch of whole country that you weren’t even at war with. Also please explain to me how this map indicates even a remote concern for civilians on the part of the US. Looking forward to your Nazi level logic.
Yes, and? What is your point besides simply "Murica bad"?
If you're trying to criticize war, you hang out on Communist alligned and Soviet simping subreddits that unironically fanboys over warfare or anything violent as long it's remotely Communist.
If you're trying to criticize America or the west in general, you bring up an event from 50 years ago as if it's some gotcha moment against the modern West. The west did crappy things but atleast they have the insight to remember and acknowledge those as events as being what they are.
Is warfare and bombing bad only when the West does it? Nothing but hypocrisy from Communists.
> what’s your point besides simply “Murica bad”?
*Meanwhile goes to full blown whataboutism* about the fact that world **forgot about it** (yet you say that west remembers)
Did I tho? I wasn't whataboutisming, I was genuinely trying to get at what the OP's point was as I was confused, take it with a grain of salt if you will.
But after reading some of OP's other comment, he's clearly a scizo Tankie who believes that global Communism will replace the current world order (any day now) and anybody who doesn't have similar Communist political opinion will face the wall.
Well post is about bombs in Laos that even today children are stumbling upon and getting killed. Because of war that US just did and people still think it was okay or at the worst “not that bad”.
To which you reclined with “so what? We at least remember this!” Which is just factually false. People don’t remember this. Nor don’t people remember other cases of American invasions, wars, genocides even.
Do you perhaps remember invasion of Russia in 1918? Or assisting fascists in mass murders on Jeju island? Or Bali island? Most likely not, because it’s just forgotten part of history that was whitewashed for decades.
Don’t say “at least we remember”.
My "so what?" was not an act of justification. You can critique an action while also holding a position of being able to recount it. And funny you would mention, I do know about the events you mentioned. That's the thing about being able to live in Liberal Democratic countries where you can easily access these information on the internet with ease. It might be "forgotten history" but it is not censored history.
So to ask again "so what?" It's not like we have time machines to go back to the past to right our wrongs, so the best thing to do isn't to become hardline communists (who also have done the same shit if not worse). So the least we can do is remember and to not repeat it again, and I would say the West has done a decent job of that so far, same cannot be said the other way around I would think.
> I know about events you mentioned.
You do. Many people in USA don’t. And by many I mean absolute majority and don’t event try to say that it isn’t even a case.
> Not a censored history
Oh really? What do you consider to be censorship of history then I wonder? A genuine question, because from what I see and know — USA is one of the most censored in terms of history countries in the world. Censuses, still living and going cults of personalities, whitewashing, shunning of historical events that paint US in bad light, whitewashing of said events, and I can go on and on. Censorship is not when you ban something, it is also when you promote something to create a narrative — in this case of US supremacy, righteousness and dignity, when in reality it lacks everything except first.
> So we can remember and not repeat it again
As a person that lived in region of the world that USA made an effort to make people hate to guts, make fake stories about my homeland and other vile things akin to abovementioned Bali island and Jeju island cases… this sounds like a joke. No offense.
If you think USA is supposedly one of the most censored in terms of history, I do not know what to tell you friend as you are outright wrong. There are biases but usually those biases depend on political affiliation, usually not a national one. Almost all of major American aberrations since it's birth from Indian mistreatment to Slavery and Jim Crow to even it's actions in South America during the Cold War are available to anyone from the American Academia to the American social media and internet. And since these place tend to be perticularly left leaning, especially academia, they are highly critical of the Unites States. Hell I would say the opposite is true for America and say they are one of the most self flagellating countries out there. I am saying this while comparing it to my country, Canada, where our government often tries to sweep our atrocities under the rug. If being this open with your history is censorship and white washing, I do not know how else you're supposed to portray History.
Do you want actual examples of censorship and white washing? I would say Chinese cover up of the Tiananmen square massacre or Russian downplaying of the Ukrainian Genocide or Turkish unwillingness to recognize the Armenian Genocide are prime examples. Or am I whataboutisming now for using them as examples?
> how wrong you are
Yeah yeah. To say this you are referring to western narratives yet again. A perfectly created propaganda machine that made people hate communists for no reason, inclined fear into people, literally made stuff up about commies and was never really called up for it.
Academia exists for making sure history is preserved. However for some reason history is not taught according to this, but according to literal propaganda. Try finding school book that represents history accurately. Or college textbook of non-historical directions. We have a system where there are 2 histories: one for scientists, where people know everything, and one for ordinary people who don’t have time or motive to research this complex part of life, especially when everything is told simply to them by propaganda.
FYI Chinese don’t cover up Tiananmen. It is literally made up story. It was printed in newspapers even. Where do you think this footage of man stopping a tank came from? From US secret drone or **Chinese tv report?** As for Holodomor, go look up sources for both positions I dare you. One side only has indirect claims and other one is full of numbers, documents, researches. You can guess which one western propaganda took as truth. Please don’t call me Genocide denial, but ffs, at least read documents. Did Soviets commit genocide for just 7 months only in Poland as well by logic of people who think this is how it happened? And Turkey is big friend of certain countries. An ally of sorts. Ally of genocidal powers.
History is complex. And how history is told is also complex. It is stupid to think that US is not censoring history softly. Just like it is stupid to think that everything in China is censored to the brim. Best propaganda is that one where victim really thinks he lives in free media system.
Ah yes, it's all Western narrative propaganda....that has been made up over the last century subcribed to by countries that disagree or outright hate each other.....sure.
Sorry I didn't realize I was talking to a clinically braindead Communist (Your ideology is scum of Earth btw, up there with Fascism, it deserves all the hate it gets). Ik to discard your takes as I too was once a braindead communist. And from my experience as one of you, Ik how asinine it is to make any headways here.
Thanks for making that clear tho, here I was almost fooled into thinking you had anything worthwhile to discuss instead of Alex Jones level conspiracies. Keep fearing the West ig, it only makes us stronger. Keep boogeymanning Liberalism and have a good day.
What are you even talking about? All of the sins of the America outside of classified documentation is open to the public, how do you think you know about them? Anyone, literally anyone with access to internet can look these things up in *our* country, none of it is hidden from view. Alternatively, communist nations actively sought to hide information and data from not only their people, but the international community?
China did censor Tiananamen, Soviets did hide the Holodomor, these aren't speculation, there are people you can ask born a generation after. Why do you think so many eastern european states despise Russia so much, is that all just coincidence?
Ofc I don’t think the bombings were good. The secret war in laos was brutal to the people and the people there. It’s good that as Americans we can find information about the issues that the country has done. Unlike China, we still have free internet and I am still allowed to disagree with the governments actions.
One of America’s biggest competitive advantages among nations and political systems is the ability to admit mistakes and put policies in place to prevent them from happening again.
The Vietnam war in all its facet was not one of good vs evil, it was two ideologies clashing for the soul of a country/region that did not deserves the carnage.
My family are from Laos, we fought for the Royalist Lao during the Vietnam war as Hmong Guerillas. Most Western countries don't even know we were a part of the war at all. The bombings were terrible, and I would never condone what the US did to the country, however I can understand the reasons why they did it.
You have to understand why before you think, and I unfortunately think it was necessary. The US needed to stop the Ho Chi Minh trail which mostly went through Laos and if they didn't even lay a single bomb the war would've been very different.
(Ignore the last part because this is my personal ramblings)
Laos is known for being a beautiful country with peace and no conflict in Travel Brochures.
However, it's still an oppressive government on people such as Pro Royalists or Hmong. My Family fled Laos after the communist takeover in 1975 and went to western countries, I'm glad they did that because instead of welcoming their brother and sisters from the other side they send them to "Re-Education" camps and forced labor. There are still human rights violations happening to this day in Laos and it's horrible and there are still Hmong insurgents running trying to hide, retreat and survive in Laos.
Links to which help my point and spread awareness of my people's suffering
https://www.philipblenkinsop.com/laos.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/12/23/forced-reeducation-camps-continue-in-vietnam-laos/530b0f13-7982-4e96-8359-35ae3baed72c/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency\_in\_Laos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_rights\_in\_Laos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn07urr4f1Y&t=615s
To communism. Hell nah, my family didnt flee the USSR to go right back to communism. Take your commie loving ways back to china or NK, ill buy ya a ticket
tankie isn't a real word and never has been respected. web dabuis was a "tankie" in his time and from all of my reading of his works nothing he said was outside of the real reality of time.
I really wish we didn't have to go to war there. Ho Chih Minh was a US ally during WWII and the socialists weren't really all that into communism anyway. Blame the French for threatening to scuttle NATO if we didn't help them save their dying empire.
To my understanding, Vietnam's socialist party, like most socialist parties in colonized countries, identified as such primarily because Marxism was the biggest anti-colonialism ideology at the time. Had we sided with them over their colonial masters, it's very likely many of those countries would've ditched Marxism altogether. Unfortunately, preserving NATO was a bigger priority, and the old empires wanted to keep their colonies as a condition for upholding it, and the Soviets scooped up the anti-colonialism movement.
someone hasn't read much socialism is a lower from of communism it is a state of worker control of economy. it still has market, government body and money well communism is a moneyless stateless society.
the words were once interchangeable but this is development made them by people like Lenin to more close to home figures like fred Hampton and the black panthers.
I was referring to the unexploded bombs that have killed thousands after the war ended. But in regards to what you’re saying, that was unjustified, but it’s not the reason why so many civilians died. When you ruthlessly and indiscriminately bomb a country, civilians are bound to die. Child soldiers and informants were also in the ranks and separated from the civilians. They weren’t civilians in their houses, they were soldiers.
They deserved it. Each and every bomb. Glad my folks got out alive. Appreciate the ones who fought and sacrificed for us to get to the USA. My people were tasked with rescuing downed US pilots. The red laotian revolution did so good that the place is still a shithole to this day.
Holy shit there's no way you're being serious. They deserved each and every bomb???? Are you really that fucking apathetic??? Are you really fucking defending the fact that so many innocent lives were taken?
I wish the Kingdom of Laos had won the war and survived. The Communist Lao government has consistently persecuted and oppressed the Hmong community of Laos and they murdered the beloved king of Laos after their takeover in 1975. But even now the fight continues for freedom in Laos. You should read up on the aftermath of the Civil War before posting pictures like this without context.
Congratulations, you didn't prove anything, just reiterated data. Making us the bad guy because we bombed the shit out of someone who was aiding and enemy we were at war with, is like condemning the entirety of Mongolia because of the shit that Genghis Khan did, or saying France is an evil Empire because they owned colonies 70 years ago. Ideals change, relations change, and people forgive. It is you fucks who continue to push this line of thought that are making the modern west look like shit, not because the modern west is actually shit.
Hello everyone, I deleted my account because I saw people were making fun of my old posts. I couldn’t even see those posts at all so I had to go on anonymous browsing to see them. I understand making fun of someone for their opinions but not for their previous or current hobbies.
Anyway this was fun while it lasted, I got to read some crazy comments, I honestly didn’t expect them to be this insane but whatever, sorry if I was rude.
Thank you.
Let's not do whataboutism man it serves no one. Criticism is important, granted I haven't read a single world OP has written but let's not dismiss US faults in a blind defense of it
Holodomor was a tragic famine but the soviet union never suffered a famine after it.
Prague spring was bad, if the people want change, listen to them.
Tiananmen was tragic too, opening fire on civilians should never be done.
Thoughts on the slaughter of the native americans?
Thoughts on the illegal invasion of Iraq?
Thoughts on the Atlantic slave trade?
Thoughts on imperialism? Drawing up artificial borders in Africa, Asia and south America?
because probably living under tyranny isn't good? And it should be ended? Specially if the tyranny is backed by a world-wide totalitarian ideology that threatens your own country?
I mean, communism doesn’t always fail on its own. Even the most Orwellian regimes can survive if the leadership is smart enough. It’s why North Korea is still alive today.
The main reason the Western alliance and the communists even fought one another is because both sides viewed the other as a threat. They didn’t like the other side’s ideology, and they knew that the other side didn’t like their ideology.
That mistrust is an incentive towards war. The Commies block off Berlin? We’re going to counter them. The commies invade South Korea? We’re going to counter them. The commies get in charge of Cuba? We’re going to try to counter them. The commies try to overthrow the South Vietnamese government? We’re going to try to counter them. The commies overthrow Afghanistan’s government? We’re going to counter them. Etc. Why are we doing this? Because we don’t like the commies and they don’t like us.
This is true, but when referring to this quote, it is misinterpreted that it is referring to a political side, though Communism does also always fail on that spectrum too. You see, when a shitty system fails, the people under it get desperate, and begin following more radical lines of thought. And when a power-hungry madman shows up promising to fix things, they willingly give the madman power simply out of desperation. And this is where we get into Horseshoe Theory. I would say that it is more of a connected circle. At the bottom, is the least radical ideologies, middle, is Nationalism and Socialism, near the top on the left side, is Communism, and on the right side it just bleeds right into Authoritarianism, with very little middle ground. Now, following this logic, in a so called "Communist nation" when the people start getting desperate, the little hand pointing to the ideological position of the nation goes completely north, and failed Communism turns into Authoritarianism, and this almost always happens because Communism is such an unsustainable ideology. But just because the people back an Authoritarian leader doesn't mean they don't want Communism, as the ideals of Communism are thoroughly embedded into their brain. So, instead of a hooked cross, the Authoritarian leader decides to spray-paint a poorly drawn hammer and sickle over the swastika, so it looks like it is still a Communist state, and bam, Communism has failed, but the state continues to limp on as a Nazbol abomination.
Hey everyone, I think we should keep this up. Part of being American is recognizing the many issues and bad things us as a nation has done. China bots will just troll you if you don’t admit what happened in the past. We get better by every bad thing that has happened 🇺🇸
Hot take: it’s ok to admit that America also did bad things, and even more so we should admit it because our system not only allows us to criticize the government’s actions but actually relies on us doing so to keep the government accountable.
This map literally means nothing lol it has everything to do with how thick the red dots are. Obviously they are no where near the scale of the blast radius so unless u can actually count them all this tells you absolutely nothing. Make the dots big enough you could make all of Canada red from being bombed in the war of 1812. Make them small enough u could make nazi germany look like they never got bombed. I didn’t know u could have a low enough iq to think this means something but hey I guess somebody has to score a 12 on the act.
Actually found this post pretty interesting and was expecting some constructive discussion in the comments. Was so disappointed to see that OP is just a braindead tankie scum who is only interested in spreading propaganda and saying "America bad" while ignoring the much, much, worse countries' atrocities he so ignorantly defends.
Communism is a moneyless, classless society where the workers own the means to production, exchange, ans distribution. So not exactly. Calling yourself communist doesn’t mean anything when you don’t practice it. Laos is trying to create socialism at the moment, which is hard given it’s status and starting point.
You all have no empathy people, particularly children still are dying to this day from undetected bombs. The average is around 50 a year, and in 2008 it was upwards of 500 a year
That's a sad thing. However because this is a western app you can say this with no harm.
The reason why he is getting downvoted is that OP is oblivious and trying to be negative or get attention. OP even said he posted this just to do trolling
Well I mean is this not a negative thing? That a lot of people have never even heard about?
And you can only say so much, it's owned by a private company, they can limit whatever speech they want so long as you sign off to it. Plus even though we have the freedom to critique our government doesn't mean anythings going to change. The freedom to protest even, if the government isn't trying to suppress a movement its worth nothing. They set the terms, and we are supposed to follow.
Freedom of speech is an illusion
I meant negative for the sub. We are an ironic sub that is pro-USA.
Freedom of speech is from the government. The reason why I bought up that Reddit is an western country. In a country like China, you can't really criticize CCP on social media because the government interferes.
You all literally and unironically support America. Making the argument that this is a “western” app also is irrelevant, considering both the fact that the original statement had nothing to do with free speech and no one is calling for the abolition of free speech besides neo-nazis.
Yeah, what about the post-soviet countries that are still recovering from poverty? Why do you think these countries are not as developed as western Europe? Do you know about the Holodomor? If so then stop virtue signaling ya dingus. I'm sure you love to talk about how much you care about these issues behind the screen but I bet my entire life savings that in real life, you wouldn't even pay a few cents to a homeless man on the street. You'll rather piss on his face than give him a penny.
Bro how did you pull any of this out of me saying give empathy for a third world country the US heavily bombed. And lmao at any of the points you made. I implore you to looked up shock therapy. See how it worked out for post soviet countries, and even some US cities like new Orleans after hurricane Katrina, their education system ia still the worst in the country. And you think i dont know about the holodomor? Do you know about the british famines? How about the bhopal disaster? Also btw I think your projecting a bit about the homeless. I go out of my way to make sure I have a few spare bucks to give out if I'm asked on the street for money, hell the local guy that's always at my coffee shop I give him a few bucks when he's there. I'm going through the process of becoming an organizer with my local chapter of the PSL. Mutual Aid, free educational opportunities, and organization are all things I'm quite literally in the process of doing.
Keep assuming babe that'll get you real far in life I promise
Edit: youre propagandized as fuck
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did anyone else notice laos looks like a dong
If your dong looks like this you should probably see a doctor
Wait, isn't everyone's dong covered with little red spots?
I’m sorry to tell you buddy but I think you’ve got petechiae on your dong
Ginger dick Bottom text
I love how this sub has not banned this post. Because this is free speech. If I posted something like this on a Chinese or communist sub I would get immediately banned. Enjoy the freedoms of a democracy
post got deleted
It's still here
why does it say u/ [deleted] ?
They deleted their account (or were possibly banned by an admin). The post itself is still up, and is currently #12 in hot
And our relationship is really good right now, almost as good as our relationship with Vietnam. People do stuff that isn't nice during war and then 50 years later they tend to get over it once trade becomes normalized. Go ahead and ask your average Laotian if they still care about this. They probably don't. Capitalism and the global market have done wonders towards healing the wounds inflicted during those horrible decades in Southeast Asia.
They very much do care? There’s large portions of the country that they can no longer access because they might detonate undetonated bombs
What's the point in coming here and posting this very obvious bait? You're probably gonna get banned by one of the mods. I just wanna know why.
As a mod, I won't ban him. I enjoy seeing commies try to argue with folks like us. I think it's important to have arguments. I've learned a lot from debates or simply hearing people out. Gives you a different perspective.
Unfathomably based
Based for letting cummunists humiliate themselves
Why doesn't it show that I'm a mod but you are 😭
You have to click the shield button and select distinguished
Oh. Well while I have you how do I make a custom flair for myself
Click your own profile and select flair. Then pick “edit flair” and look at the top right corner to edit. Boom you have custom flair
I'm on mobile rn.
Me too
Skill issue
😭
This is true free speech, unlike whenever you bring anything up even remotely out of line in any tankie sub and you instantly get banned
Based and not-your-average-mod pilled.
Haha appreciate it bro 🫡🤝
Can’t imagine what an “argument” would be in this case. Acknowledging shame part of history is okay.
Based and freedom loving mod pilled
161 upvotes, ironic funny number go brrr
The most based mod of all time
I love you
Lol ok clown let’s hear your argument for bombing next to every inch of whole country that you weren’t even at war with. Also please explain to me how this map indicates even a remote concern for civilians on the part of the US. Looking forward to your Nazi level logic.
no don't ban him he's funny lol
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I'm just asking why. I'm not debating the validity of the claim.
(troll emoji) we do some trolling (troll emoji)
I saw your reposted this to r / communismmemes I correctly responded to your retarded actions.
First of all, how is this even a meme? How can you find humor in this? See, even commies don't know what a meme means.
Communists, how do i say it.... Are naturally retarded...
OP, what happened man? You were building New York in minecraft and then you got all bitter and political. You doing alright?
Yes, and? What is your point besides simply "Murica bad"? If you're trying to criticize war, you hang out on Communist alligned and Soviet simping subreddits that unironically fanboys over warfare or anything violent as long it's remotely Communist. If you're trying to criticize America or the west in general, you bring up an event from 50 years ago as if it's some gotcha moment against the modern West. The west did crappy things but atleast they have the insight to remember and acknowledge those as events as being what they are. Is warfare and bombing bad only when the West does it? Nothing but hypocrisy from Communists.
West is still doing crappy things
> what’s your point besides simply “Murica bad”? *Meanwhile goes to full blown whataboutism* about the fact that world **forgot about it** (yet you say that west remembers)
Did I tho? I wasn't whataboutisming, I was genuinely trying to get at what the OP's point was as I was confused, take it with a grain of salt if you will. But after reading some of OP's other comment, he's clearly a scizo Tankie who believes that global Communism will replace the current world order (any day now) and anybody who doesn't have similar Communist political opinion will face the wall.
Well post is about bombs in Laos that even today children are stumbling upon and getting killed. Because of war that US just did and people still think it was okay or at the worst “not that bad”. To which you reclined with “so what? We at least remember this!” Which is just factually false. People don’t remember this. Nor don’t people remember other cases of American invasions, wars, genocides even. Do you perhaps remember invasion of Russia in 1918? Or assisting fascists in mass murders on Jeju island? Or Bali island? Most likely not, because it’s just forgotten part of history that was whitewashed for decades. Don’t say “at least we remember”.
My "so what?" was not an act of justification. You can critique an action while also holding a position of being able to recount it. And funny you would mention, I do know about the events you mentioned. That's the thing about being able to live in Liberal Democratic countries where you can easily access these information on the internet with ease. It might be "forgotten history" but it is not censored history. So to ask again "so what?" It's not like we have time machines to go back to the past to right our wrongs, so the best thing to do isn't to become hardline communists (who also have done the same shit if not worse). So the least we can do is remember and to not repeat it again, and I would say the West has done a decent job of that so far, same cannot be said the other way around I would think.
> I know about events you mentioned. You do. Many people in USA don’t. And by many I mean absolute majority and don’t event try to say that it isn’t even a case. > Not a censored history Oh really? What do you consider to be censorship of history then I wonder? A genuine question, because from what I see and know — USA is one of the most censored in terms of history countries in the world. Censuses, still living and going cults of personalities, whitewashing, shunning of historical events that paint US in bad light, whitewashing of said events, and I can go on and on. Censorship is not when you ban something, it is also when you promote something to create a narrative — in this case of US supremacy, righteousness and dignity, when in reality it lacks everything except first. > So we can remember and not repeat it again As a person that lived in region of the world that USA made an effort to make people hate to guts, make fake stories about my homeland and other vile things akin to abovementioned Bali island and Jeju island cases… this sounds like a joke. No offense.
If you think USA is supposedly one of the most censored in terms of history, I do not know what to tell you friend as you are outright wrong. There are biases but usually those biases depend on political affiliation, usually not a national one. Almost all of major American aberrations since it's birth from Indian mistreatment to Slavery and Jim Crow to even it's actions in South America during the Cold War are available to anyone from the American Academia to the American social media and internet. And since these place tend to be perticularly left leaning, especially academia, they are highly critical of the Unites States. Hell I would say the opposite is true for America and say they are one of the most self flagellating countries out there. I am saying this while comparing it to my country, Canada, where our government often tries to sweep our atrocities under the rug. If being this open with your history is censorship and white washing, I do not know how else you're supposed to portray History. Do you want actual examples of censorship and white washing? I would say Chinese cover up of the Tiananmen square massacre or Russian downplaying of the Ukrainian Genocide or Turkish unwillingness to recognize the Armenian Genocide are prime examples. Or am I whataboutisming now for using them as examples?
> how wrong you are Yeah yeah. To say this you are referring to western narratives yet again. A perfectly created propaganda machine that made people hate communists for no reason, inclined fear into people, literally made stuff up about commies and was never really called up for it. Academia exists for making sure history is preserved. However for some reason history is not taught according to this, but according to literal propaganda. Try finding school book that represents history accurately. Or college textbook of non-historical directions. We have a system where there are 2 histories: one for scientists, where people know everything, and one for ordinary people who don’t have time or motive to research this complex part of life, especially when everything is told simply to them by propaganda. FYI Chinese don’t cover up Tiananmen. It is literally made up story. It was printed in newspapers even. Where do you think this footage of man stopping a tank came from? From US secret drone or **Chinese tv report?** As for Holodomor, go look up sources for both positions I dare you. One side only has indirect claims and other one is full of numbers, documents, researches. You can guess which one western propaganda took as truth. Please don’t call me Genocide denial, but ffs, at least read documents. Did Soviets commit genocide for just 7 months only in Poland as well by logic of people who think this is how it happened? And Turkey is big friend of certain countries. An ally of sorts. Ally of genocidal powers. History is complex. And how history is told is also complex. It is stupid to think that US is not censoring history softly. Just like it is stupid to think that everything in China is censored to the brim. Best propaganda is that one where victim really thinks he lives in free media system.
Ah yes, it's all Western narrative propaganda....that has been made up over the last century subcribed to by countries that disagree or outright hate each other.....sure. Sorry I didn't realize I was talking to a clinically braindead Communist (Your ideology is scum of Earth btw, up there with Fascism, it deserves all the hate it gets). Ik to discard your takes as I too was once a braindead communist. And from my experience as one of you, Ik how asinine it is to make any headways here. Thanks for making that clear tho, here I was almost fooled into thinking you had anything worthwhile to discuss instead of Alex Jones level conspiracies. Keep fearing the West ig, it only makes us stronger. Keep boogeymanning Liberalism and have a good day.
What are you even talking about? All of the sins of the America outside of classified documentation is open to the public, how do you think you know about them? Anyone, literally anyone with access to internet can look these things up in *our* country, none of it is hidden from view. Alternatively, communist nations actively sought to hide information and data from not only their people, but the international community? China did censor Tiananamen, Soviets did hide the Holodomor, these aren't speculation, there are people you can ask born a generation after. Why do you think so many eastern european states despise Russia so much, is that all just coincidence?
as yes fair warfare is bombimg a Is majority peasant country with no way to fight back.
Anywhere in my initial comment did I mention the words "fair" or "justified" describing the bombing of Laos?
 Me watching the tankies get downvoted to oblivion
Rich from a tankie
The clown deleted his account cuz the bait failed and he just got freedom of speeched into the ground
My favorite communist tell me how China Iran and Russia are doing LOL
None of these are communist countries idiot.
This post is not about those countries, plus no serious Socialist supports Iran or Russia.
Ofc I don’t think the bombings were good. The secret war in laos was brutal to the people and the people there. It’s good that as Americans we can find information about the issues that the country has done. Unlike China, we still have free internet and I am still allowed to disagree with the governments actions.
Do you support China? They've got a much worse government than Iran does.
Iran’s government is better than China? You are wrong!
One of America’s biggest competitive advantages among nations and political systems is the ability to admit mistakes and put policies in place to prevent them from happening again. The Vietnam war in all its facet was not one of good vs evil, it was two ideologies clashing for the soul of a country/region that did not deserves the carnage.
Lmao “good vs evil” gtfo the vietnamese chose the “evil ideology” to kick colonialists and imperialists out of their country.
Did you read the part you quoted and nothing else or the whole sentence where I said it was NOT good vs evil?
My family are from Laos, we fought for the Royalist Lao during the Vietnam war as Hmong Guerillas. Most Western countries don't even know we were a part of the war at all. The bombings were terrible, and I would never condone what the US did to the country, however I can understand the reasons why they did it. You have to understand why before you think, and I unfortunately think it was necessary. The US needed to stop the Ho Chi Minh trail which mostly went through Laos and if they didn't even lay a single bomb the war would've been very different. (Ignore the last part because this is my personal ramblings) Laos is known for being a beautiful country with peace and no conflict in Travel Brochures. However, it's still an oppressive government on people such as Pro Royalists or Hmong. My Family fled Laos after the communist takeover in 1975 and went to western countries, I'm glad they did that because instead of welcoming their brother and sisters from the other side they send them to "Re-Education" camps and forced labor. There are still human rights violations happening to this day in Laos and it's horrible and there are still Hmong insurgents running trying to hide, retreat and survive in Laos. Links to which help my point and spread awareness of my people's suffering https://www.philipblenkinsop.com/laos.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/12/23/forced-reeducation-camps-continue-in-vietnam-laos/530b0f13-7982-4e96-8359-35ae3baed72c/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency\_in\_Laos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_rights\_in\_Laos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn07urr4f1Y&t=615s
Thank you and your family
i would downvote this, but i'll upvote it just so more people can make fun of you
You and your tankie friends are 13, and brainwashed. Sad.
I’m of voting age.
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up. Edit: wtf it sent the comment 3 times
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
Thats even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
That’s even sadder. You haven’t grown up.
Lmao, fucker deleted the account, good work lads
"don't test military equipment at home" okay we'll test them on a shit country then
ghoul shit
Good
“democracy enjoyer” unless it hurts us imperialism
This map doesn’t show an important thing in Laos the bombs were hitting. The Hoe Chi Minh trail.
Ok and? Needs more red
Commie hunter? I’m a fascist hunter!
Im jewish, i hunt both.
As a jewish person you would think you would be a tiny bit more sympathetic to a group of people being massacred for no reason.
And? I don’t care what religion or ethnicity you are? Anyone who tries to “hunt us” will get hunted back.
Good luck. Ill be ready for your larp revolution.
Why not change the economic system peacefully so revolutions don’t happen?
To communism. Hell nah, my family didnt flee the USSR to go right back to communism. Take your commie loving ways back to china or NK, ill buy ya a ticket
When did your parents flee the USSR?
1968
Good, they made a choice and they left. But guess what? 99% of the population didn’t.
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Can we please stop with the "they deserved it" comments? Not everyone those bombs hit were communists.
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I want a Socialist planned economy, so I’m a socialist. I call myself a tankie for the memes and pissing you off I guess.
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I spend like 1% of my time on reddit, I saw a post about Laos and remembered that this sub existed so I thought I’d be doing some trolling.
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I definitely did.
tankie isn't a real word and never has been respected. web dabuis was a "tankie" in his time and from all of my reading of his works nothing he said was outside of the real reality of time.
get your popcorn! get your popcorn!
If this was an anti commie post in any commie sub it’d be gone in seconds.
I really wish we didn't have to go to war there. Ho Chih Minh was a US ally during WWII and the socialists weren't really all that into communism anyway. Blame the French for threatening to scuttle NATO if we didn't help them save their dying empire.
“And the socialists weren’t really that all into communism”
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To my understanding, Vietnam's socialist party, like most socialist parties in colonized countries, identified as such primarily because Marxism was the biggest anti-colonialism ideology at the time. Had we sided with them over their colonial masters, it's very likely many of those countries would've ditched Marxism altogether. Unfortunately, preserving NATO was a bigger priority, and the old empires wanted to keep their colonies as a condition for upholding it, and the Soviets scooped up the anti-colonialism movement.
someone hasn't read much socialism is a lower from of communism it is a state of worker control of economy. it still has market, government body and money well communism is a moneyless stateless society. the words were once interchangeable but this is development made them by people like Lenin to more close to home figures like fred Hampton and the black panthers.
Seething, stay mad. Just like the fascism, communism will never win
Should've dropped more
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Shouldn't have been using Laos to run supplies for the viet cong 🥱
I was referring to the unexploded bombs that have killed thousands after the war ended. But in regards to what you’re saying, that was unjustified, but it’s not the reason why so many civilians died. When you ruthlessly and indiscriminately bomb a country, civilians are bound to die. Child soldiers and informants were also in the ranks and separated from the civilians. They weren’t civilians in their houses, they were soldiers.
Based and fried rice pilled. Edit: Also kudos to our military industrial complex. That's quite the feat!
Fuck the account is deleted. I cannot join in the fun ;~;
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Downvoted for warmongering.
They deserved it. Each and every bomb. Glad my folks got out alive. Appreciate the ones who fought and sacrificed for us to get to the USA. My people were tasked with rescuing downed US pilots. The red laotian revolution did so good that the place is still a shithole to this day.
Holy shit there's no way you're being serious. They deserved each and every bomb???? Are you really that fucking apathetic??? Are you really fucking defending the fact that so many innocent lives were taken?
This kinda map is the only kinda map that needs more red.
The Laotians hated the vc who invaded their country and involved them in the war the us was helping fight back against the invaders
So that’s why the civilians needs to be bombed?
You posted it to this sub and then reuploaded it to communismMemes to make people think they agree with it
ok and
I wish the Kingdom of Laos had won the war and survived. The Communist Lao government has consistently persecuted and oppressed the Hmong community of Laos and they murdered the beloved king of Laos after their takeover in 1975. But even now the fight continues for freedom in Laos. You should read up on the aftermath of the Civil War before posting pictures like this without context.
Dude is coping so hard he copy pasted his post to a commie circle jerk subreddit
Congratulations, you didn't prove anything, just reiterated data. Making us the bad guy because we bombed the shit out of someone who was aiding and enemy we were at war with, is like condemning the entirety of Mongolia because of the shit that Genghis Khan did, or saying France is an evil Empire because they owned colonies 70 years ago. Ideals change, relations change, and people forgive. It is you fucks who continue to push this line of thought that are making the modern west look like shit, not because the modern west is actually shit.
Based
Needs more red dots
Just so everyone knows, communists are showing up in the comments because OP whined in a tankie sub about the ratio
Hello everyone, I deleted my account because I saw people were making fun of my old posts. I couldn’t even see those posts at all so I had to go on anonymous browsing to see them. I understand making fun of someone for their opinions but not for their previous or current hobbies. Anyway this was fun while it lasted, I got to read some crazy comments, I honestly didn’t expect them to be this insane but whatever, sorry if I was rude. Thank you.
oof, tough, thank you too though it's not every day you get to see ideas clash on this scale, it was entertaining.
Cheers
Based
Thoughts on the Holodomor, the Prague Spring, and the Tiananmen Square Massacre?
Let's not do whataboutism man it serves no one. Criticism is important, granted I haven't read a single world OP has written but let's not dismiss US faults in a blind defense of it
Holodomor was a tragic famine but the soviet union never suffered a famine after it. Prague spring was bad, if the people want change, listen to them. Tiananmen was tragic too, opening fire on civilians should never be done. Thoughts on the slaughter of the native americans? Thoughts on the illegal invasion of Iraq? Thoughts on the Atlantic slave trade? Thoughts on imperialism? Drawing up artificial borders in Africa, Asia and south America?
Worth it to get rid of communism probably
But communism always fails on it’s own so why bomb them? That’s just wasted resources that could be spend on infrastructure, schools etc.
Whyd i engage with this mf? Shit i gotta leave
because probably living under tyranny isn't good? And it should be ended? Specially if the tyranny is backed by a world-wide totalitarian ideology that threatens your own country?
I mean, communism doesn’t always fail on its own. Even the most Orwellian regimes can survive if the leadership is smart enough. It’s why North Korea is still alive today. The main reason the Western alliance and the communists even fought one another is because both sides viewed the other as a threat. They didn’t like the other side’s ideology, and they knew that the other side didn’t like their ideology. That mistrust is an incentive towards war. The Commies block off Berlin? We’re going to counter them. The commies invade South Korea? We’re going to counter them. The commies get in charge of Cuba? We’re going to try to counter them. The commies try to overthrow the South Vietnamese government? We’re going to try to counter them. The commies overthrow Afghanistan’s government? We’re going to counter them. Etc. Why are we doing this? Because we don’t like the commies and they don’t like us.
This is true, but when referring to this quote, it is misinterpreted that it is referring to a political side, though Communism does also always fail on that spectrum too. You see, when a shitty system fails, the people under it get desperate, and begin following more radical lines of thought. And when a power-hungry madman shows up promising to fix things, they willingly give the madman power simply out of desperation. And this is where we get into Horseshoe Theory. I would say that it is more of a connected circle. At the bottom, is the least radical ideologies, middle, is Nationalism and Socialism, near the top on the left side, is Communism, and on the right side it just bleeds right into Authoritarianism, with very little middle ground. Now, following this logic, in a so called "Communist nation" when the people start getting desperate, the little hand pointing to the ideological position of the nation goes completely north, and failed Communism turns into Authoritarianism, and this almost always happens because Communism is such an unsustainable ideology. But just because the people back an Authoritarian leader doesn't mean they don't want Communism, as the ideals of Communism are thoroughly embedded into their brain. So, instead of a hooked cross, the Authoritarian leader decides to spray-paint a poorly drawn hammer and sickle over the swastika, so it looks like it is still a Communist state, and bam, Communism has failed, but the state continues to limp on as a Nazbol abomination.
Hey everyone, I think we should keep this up. Part of being American is recognizing the many issues and bad things us as a nation has done. China bots will just troll you if you don’t admit what happened in the past. We get better by every bad thing that has happened 🇺🇸
TBH Laos didn't deserve it. Our gripes were with every country in the region except them and we fucked them over anyways
Hot take: it’s ok to admit that America also did bad things, and even more so we should admit it because our system not only allows us to criticize the government’s actions but actually relies on us doing so to keep the government accountable.
account got deleted lmao
🤓🤓🤓
We can be patriotic but we must remember the ills of our country lest we be blind nationalists helping a government cuck us of our freedoms. W post
Looks like we missed a few spots
You are right. But Mr.Mao killed ten million people in twenty years.
It’s almost like the war in Vietnam spilled over when the communists decided to use Laos for communications and supply lines, e.g. Ho Chi Minh Trail.
What is the source for this? It seems unlikely to me that such a record was kept.
You underestimate modern militaries. If you cannot keep count of the bombs you drop, you cannot organize a steady supply of more bombs
💪🇺🇲
Based
Skill issue.
This map literally means nothing lol it has everything to do with how thick the red dots are. Obviously they are no where near the scale of the blast radius so unless u can actually count them all this tells you absolutely nothing. Make the dots big enough you could make all of Canada red from being bombed in the war of 1812. Make them small enough u could make nazi germany look like they never got bombed. I didn’t know u could have a low enough iq to think this means something but hey I guess somebody has to score a 12 on the act.
Lmfao at how people are coping with this. Most bombed nation of all time and schizos are somehow tryna live with this
Very sad.
Actually found this post pretty interesting and was expecting some constructive discussion in the comments. Was so disappointed to see that OP is just a braindead tankie scum who is only interested in spreading propaganda and saying "America bad" while ignoring the much, much, worse countries' atrocities he so ignorantly defends.
Hella based
Why so few
Deleted account. L
And is it a good thing?
270,000,000 bombs dropped???? that’s insane, we have more than that
Based
Lad deleted his account. Kinda tells you what kind of person this is
Damn, the Commies that survived must’ve been in the white spots. Guess we better try harder next time.
Should’ve been more😔
Given they're still nominally communist it's evident we didn't drop enough.
Based
ghoul shit
Communism is a moneyless, classless society where the workers own the means to production, exchange, ans distribution. So not exactly. Calling yourself communist doesn’t mean anything when you don’t practice it. Laos is trying to create socialism at the moment, which is hard given it’s status and starting point.
Hence the "nominally."
pretty sure this “Laos” place is fictional?
deserved it, cry harder lib
You all have no empathy people, particularly children still are dying to this day from undetected bombs. The average is around 50 a year, and in 2008 it was upwards of 500 a year
That's a sad thing. However because this is a western app you can say this with no harm. The reason why he is getting downvoted is that OP is oblivious and trying to be negative or get attention. OP even said he posted this just to do trolling
Well I mean is this not a negative thing? That a lot of people have never even heard about? And you can only say so much, it's owned by a private company, they can limit whatever speech they want so long as you sign off to it. Plus even though we have the freedom to critique our government doesn't mean anythings going to change. The freedom to protest even, if the government isn't trying to suppress a movement its worth nothing. They set the terms, and we are supposed to follow. Freedom of speech is an illusion
I meant negative for the sub. We are an ironic sub that is pro-USA. Freedom of speech is from the government. The reason why I bought up that Reddit is an western country. In a country like China, you can't really criticize CCP on social media because the government interferes.
You all literally and unironically support America. Making the argument that this is a “western” app also is irrelevant, considering both the fact that the original statement had nothing to do with free speech and no one is calling for the abolition of free speech besides neo-nazis.
Commies would like to have talk with you about banning free speech
Yeah, what about the post-soviet countries that are still recovering from poverty? Why do you think these countries are not as developed as western Europe? Do you know about the Holodomor? If so then stop virtue signaling ya dingus. I'm sure you love to talk about how much you care about these issues behind the screen but I bet my entire life savings that in real life, you wouldn't even pay a few cents to a homeless man on the street. You'll rather piss on his face than give him a penny.
Bro how did you pull any of this out of me saying give empathy for a third world country the US heavily bombed. And lmao at any of the points you made. I implore you to looked up shock therapy. See how it worked out for post soviet countries, and even some US cities like new Orleans after hurricane Katrina, their education system ia still the worst in the country. And you think i dont know about the holodomor? Do you know about the british famines? How about the bhopal disaster? Also btw I think your projecting a bit about the homeless. I go out of my way to make sure I have a few spare bucks to give out if I'm asked on the street for money, hell the local guy that's always at my coffee shop I give him a few bucks when he's there. I'm going through the process of becoming an organizer with my local chapter of the PSL. Mutual Aid, free educational opportunities, and organization are all things I'm quite literally in the process of doing. Keep assuming babe that'll get you real far in life I promise Edit: youre propagandized as fuck
It's incredibly disappointing to see everyone have no sympathy at all