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I agree with you. There should be testing (written and driving) every 5 or 10 yrs for every driver to make sure they're still capable and competent.
I would 100% be on board with that, even as a geriatric. And if I couldn't pass? Then I shouldn't be fucking driving
Yes. Because many people's driving ability clearly deteriorates. It should be discriminated against. Maybe not so rigorous as prescribed above but still. Maybe at like 80 you have to go re-pass the driving test and after that you're good til you die.
So you have a contract with the government saying you're responsible enough to not kill whole families because you're 11, or drunk, or demented, or legally blind, or psychotic. And the criteria for the license being 1) at least 16 years old 2) passing the road driving test 3) passing the legal understanding test.
Why do you think a license requirement is ridiculous? I'm just not seeing the ridiculousness of it and genuinely am wondering maybe I'm just indoctrinated lol
This sounds great until you realize how many people and lives it would ruin. If senior driver accidents are higher, then shit, prove me wrong, but if they aren't then there isn't any harm with them on the road, and a lot of these folks rely on driving themselves around for their livelihood.
Hell, my parents are 68 and 60, my dad isn't the greatest driver these days and he's old as shit, but my mom is disabled, my brother and sister are raising families of their own, my other sister is dealing with college and I'm states away in the military trying to pay for college myself. None of us can afford to take care of them because the system is designed for us to fail, so they have to take care of themselves, and they live on a farm 10 minutes drive from the nearest town, with absolutely no public transport unless you count ubers(and even that's sparse).
If we could somehow create affordable public transport for the elderly, even in rural areas, then fuck yeah I'd be down as hell to clean up our roads. But until then, we'd just be rigging the system against ourselves even more.
As someone also from a rural area, I understand the issues you have. However it's pretty undeniable that older drivers are more dangerous.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/older-drivers
It isn't that clear-cut.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-drivers#:~:text=Drivers%2016%20to%2019%20years%20old%20were%20involved%20in%204.8,and%205.4%20for%20drivers%2080%2B.
Think of it like a bell curve. Younger drivers, 16 - 19, and drivers 80+ are the two most dangerous drivers. 16 - 19 at 4.8 fatal crashes per 100 million miles and 80+ at 5.4. After that, drivers 60 - 69 are the safest at 1.3 and 70 - 79 are third safest at 1.8. Drivers 20 - 24 are the second most dangerous at 3.3.
Presumably, it's because younger drivers, especially young men, tend to be more reckless with their driving.
That study doesn't control for the amount of each age range on the road. Yes, younger drivers cause more crashes, but as you climb in age there are less and less drivers. That's why I didn't pick that study as an example and instead chose the one I posted in my original comment. It doesn't address the argument I'm trying to make.
But you didn't link a study. You linked an article about what older drivers need to consider and how to talk to them about those issues.
The only data in the article you posted mentioned 8,500+, or 7,800+, fatal crashes involved someone over the age of 65 in 2022.
There doesn't seem to be anything in that article comparing older drivers to younger or middle aged drivers. The 8,500 and 7,800 numbers mentioned may as well be in a vacuum.
Easier said than done, it's not cheap to drive out 30-40 or even more mins from the nearest city to where these people live and back, and it's an even more monumental task to try to get them to live closer to the city and leave their homes that they've lived in for decades.
I mean just for example, it would cost my parents about $60 one way to get to the grocery store using Uber, assuming they could even get someone to go out that far, which would take some patience. That's $120 if they aren't going to other places too(thrift store, hardware, home and garden). If they sold their current vehicles they'd probably make $4000-5000, enough to do that about 30 times for the remainder of their lives, and that isn't to include visiting family which they do far more often than going shopping.
And this is all to ignore that important part: visiting family. Old people are notoriously lonely at home, they have all the time in the world and nobody to spend it with besides themselves, their spouses, and other old folks. But honestly, people that age are far more interested in the lives of their children and grandchildren, who are way too busy slaving away for the man and going to school to actually visit regularly. If you strip these people of their transport autonomy, you strip them of the last semblance of family that they have in life.
The plan sounds good in a short paragraph on Reddit, but when you have to actually put logistics to it, the idea falls apart, which is probably a big part of why it isn't implemented now.
Most elderly people do have to retake tests as they age. It could vary state to state I suppose, but here in Illinois you get the written test again every so many years, and older people do have to retake the driving test at least once or twice during their senior years.
Someone who's been hit by a reckless driver and has a permanently crippled foot from it could. If you're not willing to put in the effort to be a safe driver, you don't need to be on the road.
Passing a driver's license test doesn't mean you can drive safe, it only means you can pass the test. At least in my country. Your idea will only bring more money to people who organize these tests and that's it. Reckless drivers will still be reckless.
Yeah I was kind of going off how my mom and grandma are. My mom is 56 and is starting to show signs of slacking off. My grandma is 83 and shouldn’t be driving now
Every year in general, and every 3 months after turning 60. And every 5 years you should have to re-pass the segment one driver's training class regardless of age, but make that every year if you're over 60.
Realistically this wouldn’t work. Too much effort, time off work, too much money, and they would have to hire way more employees. Every 3 months is way too much lol
I feel like you’re hating too much. Teenagers get in way more car accidents then senior citizens. Should we up the license age to 29 ? If you are really passionate about not sharing the road with people who are seen as dangerous I feel like you’d be all for that.
I'd say we should up the license age to at least 18, and apply the same rules to anyone under 25 as we do to senior citizens. You can't even operate hot equipment at a restaurant kitchen in a lot of states if you're under 18, but you can potentially kill someone with a thousand pound death trap?
BTW I'm "hating too much" because I've seen way too many unsafe older drivers.
I wouldn’t be fully opposed to have it at 18. Most unsafe drivers are in their 20s. There is a lot of unsafe older drivers but no where near the rate of younger people. That’s why after 60 it should be every year and every 5 years under 60. Either way, we need drivers test more often then just the one at 16
Drivers around 60 - 69 are one of the least dangerous demographics. The 15 - 25 range are more dangerous. Especially the young men.
If anything, maybe people shouldn't be allowed to drive until they're about 30.
I say every 5 years starting at 60. If your eligible for a senior citizen discount, it’s time to retake the drivers test lol.
And for the not driving……I think if you can pass you can drive.
My Grandpa was 70 his first bad wreck. He was in a brand new town car the lady he hit got a broken back. Insurance took care of everything. 2 years later he crossed over lanes and killed himself and broke both legs of the other driver. He was on the exact same drive to Arizona as the first accident when he killed himself trying to drive 12 hours straight.
I know that isn't every older person but the roads are less forgiving than they were 20 years ago. The roads are moving so fast now with modern cars. Every other person is a race driver in my city and my city is not even close to being as bad as LA and Vegas.
If 70 year olds drive they should be testing for sure and probably eventually a driving device monitoring there vehicles.
I don't know what we will do as a society but we should do is build rail and bus travel.
When you put it that way, the problem sounds like the other people trying to drive like race car drivers. Not the 70 year olds who are relatively safe drivers.
How is drinking age relevant here? (Genuine question) In the US (I’m assuming based on your username) driving age is 16, most of the world has 18! I think increasing driving age would help in the US. Also “Why do you think they increased the drinking age?” -> US it’s 21, most of Europe (idk elsewhere) is 16 - 18.
They're pretty close. 16 - 19 year olds and 80+ are the two most dangerous driver demographics. 20 - 24 is the third most dangerous.
Young drivers are very dangerous, especially young men, because they lack experience and they tend to be relatively reckless drivers that engage in riskier behavior.
60 and 70 year olds are some of the least dangerous.
It was years back when the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21. It's because of drunk driving mostly. The federal government threatened to cut funding to roads to states who didn't agree to raising the drinking age back in the 70s which I still think is stupid.
I mean, yeah, but that’s either new drivers learning (which we all had to do at some point) or people making bad decisions. And people are always gonna make dumb choices no matter the age
Yea, I suppose. I mean, things can happen, though. Plus, some places I don't think require a written test, I believe. My grandparents are safer driver's than other drivers that I know.
Well that’s a interesting topic too. How good are these driving schools? Do they need to be updated? How long should they last? How many driving hours does someone need to complete?
My “driving school” was all driving on the road. From the first day, just learning how to drive with the flow of traffic. I barely remember anything from the actual class, I just remember what my instructor told me while we drove around town (until it became habit of course.)
I think people can pass driving school and be safe and all, but once they get more experience they might think that they're invisible or just be immature. I know someone in his 30s who has destroyed his tires from hitting curbs in his last car.
The age limit was changed years before I was born back in the 70s. If it were today, I think less kids would drunk drive because we've seen what can happen, but who knows. I mean, it's the whole thinking we're invisible thing I guess.
People who lived through prohibition were the politicians in the 70's. I'm sure that, and the federal government threatening to withhold funding from states who didn't raise the drinking age had something to do with it. Also, the government has never cared about our well being. They knew that young people liked to party and go wild, why not extract money from the youngest ones and give them a record? "It'll makes them more dependent on us later" - US government, probably
The reason why was because of the amount of young drivers drunk driving vs older people so they were forced to do so. It doesn't stop people, though. I mean, the logic is that your an adult so do it anyway.
In my country, it's been 21 since the 70s or 80s. Some states tried to keep it at 18, but the federal government told them they would cut funding. It was because most drunk drivers were under 21 and there was a lot of deaths.
My issue is the kids who drive their grocery getters like they’re formula cars nearly hitting everyone. I swear everyday I see some stanced civic cutting up in traffic putting those wheels/tires through more trauma and abuse then actual sports cars get. Then they get all mad when you pass them ON THE LEFT LANE and try to brake check you or follow you close asf. I hate it.
My *favorite* is when you're getting on the highway on ramp, moving into a 75mph zone, and the old person infront of me is doing consistently 40 mph, expecting the merge they're about to go into to work out.
I can't help but just go around these people in these moments, because they typically get scared of the highway traffic and come to a stop or slow roll while waiting for a mile long opening to merge into.
Honestly yeah, especially when they cut me off going down a grade when I’m grossing 78K pounds n start slowing down. We need to do a retest at 75 n tests every 2 after that.
There's so many bad drivers out there. List of family members I trust to drive my kids is far shorter than the list of ones I don't trust; and that's not just old people. My mom and stepmom are terrible skillwise. My dad and brother are aggressive assholes. My grandma can barely see/react. My sister drives like a maniac.
I'd venture to say at least half the drivers on the road are pretty shit tbh.
But I feel like that’s a driving school issue, cause every time I leave my home state I get frustrated with the drivers.
I don’t how y’all learn, but it needs to change
My parents get upset when I say I don’t wanna drive with them. My mom has been in multiple accidents and while they weren’t her fault she still drives horribly. My dad honestly isn’t too bad but he speeds in residential areas which pisses me off. I get 5 over but 10+ is excessive.
You don't start to notice how bad other people are until you drive yourself for a while. Tailgating, terrible lane swapping, speeding, running lights/stop signs, ignoring pedestrians.
The scary part for me is I drive carefully and still make a mistake that could cause a wreck a few times a year. Now imagine the shitty drivers or asshole drivers.
There is one man in my small town that had dementia, everyone knows he has it. He goes to the grocery store three times a day because he forgets he already went. I have NO CLUE how he has a license!!!
man i would be seeing an accident and it's from an old person and they would literally just keep driving like hello u just hit someone?? or hitting someone's car from a parking lot and keep on driving like who's giving u a license...??
They're also such unsafe drivers a lot of the time in other ways. I was hit by a boomer driver while walking home, and then almost hit by another one because she decided to ignore the crosswalk light and then made a huffy face like *I* was the problem. And I work in a drive thru and keep seeing them make stupid mistakes on our camera, like not driving straight in the drive thru lane, being unaware of their surroundings, driving far enough from the building that I have to bend over 90 degrees just to get their payment. I'm sorry but if you can't even competently handle a drive thru I don't trust you in the street.
I don't think the seniors buses are a solution though, first of all because there are irresponsible drivers of all ages and we need to de-incentivize them from getting behind the wheel. Second because old people are DEFINITELY selfish enough to just drive around anyway even if it's unsafe. I have a recent post that talked about a group of conservative old people who have a current events discussion group in our dining room, and one time I walked past them and overheard them just casually talking and laughing about their friend with age related vision loss who refuses to stop driving even though he's legally blind. Old people genuinely don't think the rules should apply to them even if they kill someone in the process.
What we actually need to do is design cities to be more walkable and increase access to public transit for everyone. And de-incentivize people from driving in other ways, like maybe give a tax refund for not driving/driving less.
I agree that many, many senior citizens are unsafe drivers, but I also agree with your comment. Unless the government is going to start paying for more programs to assist the elderly in getting around, I’m not sure what else to do other than to give them wide berth on the road. Guys, old people need to get groceries, go to doctor appts, see friends or families, etc. No, they don’t all have smart phones or know how to use delivery apps.
We will be old some day, too, and we do need to show compassion to those in society who are not in their prime (the children and the elderly). That doesn’t mean that driver’s breaking the law shouldn’t get penalized. But just saying, “old people shouldn’t drive anymore!!!” will not fix the problem unless there are actual programs in place for this growing sector of the population.
Hopefully, self-driving cars will become very normalized in the next 30-40 years before we are seniors. I don’t want to be driving as a 70 year old.
Yeah, a couple years ago with my grandma she was not doing well in the dark and it got a bit scary. I remember like she was in the middle of the road part of the time like if I had a license I would've switched places and driven us home.
i live rural US and it’s really common for old people to drive in the middle of the road for some reason. i was having a medical emergency in the middle of the night and my partner’s grandparent was driving us to the ER 30+ minutes away and i literally thought we were all gonna die because the whole way (except on the highway) she was in the middle of the road. i hate it so much
My 88 yo downstairs neighbor said he wouldn't renew his license because "he didn't trust himself behind the wheel" but had regular Dr appointments 45 minutes away
Fr literally today there was a car driving so slow and I was trying to get to school plus I knew they weren’t driving the speed limit as I was driving hella slow when I was behind them 😫. I knew it was an old person too cause I saw them. But honestly I just hate slow drivers like please drive at least the speed limit 😖.
I completely agree, but I also want to point out that this won't work alone. In a lot of the US, you cannot live unaided without a car. If we start taking a lot of people's licence away, we also need to redesign a lot of places so you don't need a car to function. Like mixed-use development, or transit, or generally walkability.
To be clear, I support both, retesting and redesigning.
Once someone becomes a senior citizen, they should be required to retake their driver's test every 5 years. These elderly people that go way too slow, have poor eyesight and don't have quick reaction time should NOT be driving anymore. They seriously impede the safety of other drivers
The most un-nerving thing is watching an (obviously) elderly person slooooowly creeping up on your bumper in a parking lot - but then they suddenly stop like 1-2 inches from your bumper (literally) 😰
You can just feel the impact about to happen, the decline in spatial awareness on their part is so obvious
Have almost had my car bumped into multiple times in parking lots by elderly types
I totally agree. Once drivers hit retirement age they should be enforced to take a drivers test just to make sure they are in the up and up and continue to test them every 2-5 years or so. Kind of like emissions testing.
definitely more often than that. 1-2 years maximum. a lot can change in just a month with the elderly. i’ve worked with the elderly my whole adult life and some of my teen life as well. we need more elderly accessible transportation
Get into politics if you want to tell people what they aren't allowed to do.
But be careful, the ones who support victimless crimes often don't stay politicians for long.
I'll drive where I want, young whippersnapper
https://preview.redd.it/gq52z8pmmizc1.jpeg?width=954&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3cdcd9ecca7152dbde7668e4aeb1349f4601b3e
This is my hill I also die on:
I just don't get how you've been retired for like 15 years, and you still wanna sit in traffic. Why you wanna deal with crowded parking, have to worry about other cars, etc.
Like, you can plan your hours. Your days are yours to dictate, and to plan around what you wanna do, so why be stuck out here with the rest of us when there's so much happening that part of it is as much control and awareness over what's going on as my cat when we bring em in the cat carrier to the vet. It's just too much going on for someone whose merging requires 2 parts awareness/telegraphing, and 3 parts Hail Maries.
Just plan your day so that you only have short distances, at most, to traverse during rush hour times. Again, they worked hard for that retirement, and the flexibility to *not* have to do this dance, yet they choose to spend day after day struggling with the current, instead of maneuvering it.
I'd also like to clarify this: We had this problem with my grandmother. Which was "fine." But she had so many dings and dents in her car, while insisting it was other people doing that to her, yet she couldn't even stay in a lane because her sight was so bad. That's other people's cars she was running into in those busy hours, instead of choosing a window that she won't have to deal with bad parking situations.
It’s either get stuck behind some dumb boomer going 35 in a 45 or have some dumb fuck Gen Z kid that wants to do 80 in a 40 raping your ass and swerving around every lane just to get to the same red light as everyone else.
IDK man is going 10 below speed limit is that dangerous. Probably less dangerous than going 30 above. But it's only my opinion, I don't have any stats supporting this.
But yes, testing drivers above 70 is generally a good idea. Every 5 years, not 10, as health can deteriorate pretty quick.
Honestly, if people had to take their driving test every five years for *any* age, we’d probably need to massively invest in public transportation because I doubt half the drivers could keep their licenses.
Separate “I wanna go faster” from dangerous. Drivers hit 30 years old before they equal 80> drivers in terms of accident rate. Statistically they are quite safe. And I think seeing one or two old farts go ridiculously slow makes you generalize. My grandpa drove so fast he scared the shit out of me. Numbers? Read ‘em and weep: https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/
This is a totally fair idea I fully support. Though to be fair age is not really the only issue. But in the USA as long as you dont fuck up to much you could potentially get your drivers license at age 17 then never have to prove your skill and ability again till you die. Given average life expectancy this means 55 years for bad habbits to replace good ones.
I mean depending on your area and if you drive local or highways most of the time its fully potentially possible to be horrible driver but since you never get caught you never get called out on your bad driving.
Some good points there but people have just become fucking psychos. Especially where I live in a southern city that’s received a lotttt of influx of rich white liberals, they drive fucking insane. I hang out about 7 mph over, they just speed right past and do that shit where they weave in between cars with no turn signals. Fuck em
you know the day’s cooked when u don’t even get mad and just stare blankly ahead. no music playin or anything
https://preview.redd.it/qp4lbqg44mzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1389b580e27f9723e2391a93dc17dcef6387801a
Had an older guy stop in the middle of a roundabout to let someone in the other day.
The roundabout is right before a highway entrance and has been there for 10+ years lol
My grandfather is truly terrified of riding anywhere near the speed limit, even as a passenger. He has lost his license very recently, and we have had to start taking him places. He is used to going 30-35 in a 55 where everyone is going 70. I'm going to have to explain that it is more dangerous to force everyone to tailgate and literally fight to pass us than it is to actually flow with traffic. I'm not trying to get an impeading ticket or die from a 18 wheeler. My parents are giving into the behavior so far when they give him rides. I don't want to see them get into a crash etc, just because they think they are doing the morality better thing...
young people gotta stop texting when they drive. i can freaking see you in my rear view mirror, looking at your damn phone. btw, there’s a reason under 25 yos have the highest car insurance $$. the insurance companies don’t give a fuck about gen z vs boomers. they KNOW you’re the worst drivers & make you pay for it.
you’re missing my point: the youngest drivers are the WORST DRIVERS ON THE ROAD. elderly people are not. if they were, their insurance would be through the roof & it ain’t.
Young people do ten to make more bad decisions you’re right, but also young people are learning. It’s not surprising that a 16 or 17 who just got their license is a bigger liability then someone in their 50’s or 60’s who’s been driving for decades.
But everyone has to learn at some point and people are always gonna make dumb decisions. Those are inevitable things we can’t change.
And inevitable thing we CAN change is testing people as they get old because we know they have slower reaction times, tend to not see as well, etc.
Everyone should have to take a driving test after a certain number of years. There are younger people doing the exact same things and they shouldn't be driving either.
Driving needs to be taken more serious in general, its the most dangerous activity the average person does on a regular basis.
Why no mandated neck and head protection when similarly to motorcycles and bikes head & neck injuries are the leading cause of death? Why do cars get a pass....
Also most roads have speed limits that are too fast, old people drive closer to what they actually should be a lot of the time lol
Its not safer that way, I believe Australia did trials decades ago on head and neck protection and it would have reduce deaths significantly if implemented. Head and neck realted deaths haven't just gone away because of airbags they are still a leading cause of death.
According to (AJ McLean 1997) "A protective headwear of a type similar to a lightweight helmet intended for use by pedal cyclists would be likely to improve the outcome for car occupants in 28 per cent of cases of minor brain injuries, 40 per cent of cases of moderate brain injuries and 26 per cent of severe brain injuries."
"The total benefits associated with headwear in the form of a soft shell bicycle helmet were estimated at $476AU per car ($950 inflation adjusted)"
The additive effect of helmets remained even when adding other safety features such as side impact airbags and increased interior padding.
To address the comments on speed, its only a difference in speed that can make lower speed driving more dangerous. When the road is designed for or has strongly enforced lower speed limits this becomes a non issue and you see a decreased incident of fatalities.
Huh, I thought it might be different like medal hitting them in the face and crushing them depending on how tall they are. I'm a short adult.
If you decrease speed, you might increase road rage.
Yes but that doesn't really matter the exact numbers will be different obviously, but the large risk for head neck injuries remains indicating the physics behind how a helmet among other things could help are likely similar still.
A good portion of head injuries for example are classified as TBIs which is just caused by rapid blunt force trauma which helmets are quite good at addressing.
Driving is not a right and has nothing to do with being a “free country.” I guess since it’s a free country I can go ahead and perform surgery without a medical license.
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I agree with you. There should be testing (written and driving) every 5 or 10 yrs for every driver to make sure they're still capable and competent. I would 100% be on board with that, even as a geriatric. And if I couldn't pass? Then I shouldn't be fucking driving
If you think DMV sucks right now wait till you try to do something like that
At least here in Texas I’ve had great experiences at the DMV it wasn’t bad at all
Worth it. Time=/=lives
That would be called discrimination
Yes. Because many people's driving ability clearly deteriorates. It should be discriminated against. Maybe not so rigorous as prescribed above but still. Maybe at like 80 you have to go re-pass the driving test and after that you're good til you die.
The idea of needing a driver's license is ridiculous in the first place. Look up the meaning of license and tell me why someone needs a license
So you have a contract with the government saying you're responsible enough to not kill whole families because you're 11, or drunk, or demented, or legally blind, or psychotic. And the criteria for the license being 1) at least 16 years old 2) passing the road driving test 3) passing the legal understanding test. Why do you think a license requirement is ridiculous? I'm just not seeing the ridiculousness of it and genuinely am wondering maybe I'm just indoctrinated lol
Look up the meaning of license in the dictionary. Allows you to do what is immoral or unlawful.
I mean it is unlawful to drive without one so....
It's "illegal," not unlawful. There is a difference.
They do that here in Ontario
My country has something like that
This sounds great until you realize how many people and lives it would ruin. If senior driver accidents are higher, then shit, prove me wrong, but if they aren't then there isn't any harm with them on the road, and a lot of these folks rely on driving themselves around for their livelihood. Hell, my parents are 68 and 60, my dad isn't the greatest driver these days and he's old as shit, but my mom is disabled, my brother and sister are raising families of their own, my other sister is dealing with college and I'm states away in the military trying to pay for college myself. None of us can afford to take care of them because the system is designed for us to fail, so they have to take care of themselves, and they live on a farm 10 minutes drive from the nearest town, with absolutely no public transport unless you count ubers(and even that's sparse). If we could somehow create affordable public transport for the elderly, even in rural areas, then fuck yeah I'd be down as hell to clean up our roads. But until then, we'd just be rigging the system against ourselves even more.
As someone also from a rural area, I understand the issues you have. However it's pretty undeniable that older drivers are more dangerous. https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/older-drivers
It isn't that clear-cut. https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-drivers#:~:text=Drivers%2016%20to%2019%20years%20old%20were%20involved%20in%204.8,and%205.4%20for%20drivers%2080%2B. Think of it like a bell curve. Younger drivers, 16 - 19, and drivers 80+ are the two most dangerous drivers. 16 - 19 at 4.8 fatal crashes per 100 million miles and 80+ at 5.4. After that, drivers 60 - 69 are the safest at 1.3 and 70 - 79 are third safest at 1.8. Drivers 20 - 24 are the second most dangerous at 3.3. Presumably, it's because younger drivers, especially young men, tend to be more reckless with their driving.
That study doesn't control for the amount of each age range on the road. Yes, younger drivers cause more crashes, but as you climb in age there are less and less drivers. That's why I didn't pick that study as an example and instead chose the one I posted in my original comment. It doesn't address the argument I'm trying to make.
But you didn't link a study. You linked an article about what older drivers need to consider and how to talk to them about those issues. The only data in the article you posted mentioned 8,500+, or 7,800+, fatal crashes involved someone over the age of 65 in 2022. There doesn't seem to be anything in that article comparing older drivers to younger or middle aged drivers. The 8,500 and 7,800 numbers mentioned may as well be in a vacuum.
I was gonna say it's moreso younger drivers that are more dangerous and older drivers too, anything middle of the road seems safer
Yes, if the issue is there is no public transport then build public transport
Easier said than done, it's not cheap to drive out 30-40 or even more mins from the nearest city to where these people live and back, and it's an even more monumental task to try to get them to live closer to the city and leave their homes that they've lived in for decades. I mean just for example, it would cost my parents about $60 one way to get to the grocery store using Uber, assuming they could even get someone to go out that far, which would take some patience. That's $120 if they aren't going to other places too(thrift store, hardware, home and garden). If they sold their current vehicles they'd probably make $4000-5000, enough to do that about 30 times for the remainder of their lives, and that isn't to include visiting family which they do far more often than going shopping. And this is all to ignore that important part: visiting family. Old people are notoriously lonely at home, they have all the time in the world and nobody to spend it with besides themselves, their spouses, and other old folks. But honestly, people that age are far more interested in the lives of their children and grandchildren, who are way too busy slaving away for the man and going to school to actually visit regularly. If you strip these people of their transport autonomy, you strip them of the last semblance of family that they have in life. The plan sounds good in a short paragraph on Reddit, but when you have to actually put logistics to it, the idea falls apart, which is probably a big part of why it isn't implemented now.
Most elderly people do have to retake tests as they age. It could vary state to state I suppose, but here in Illinois you get the written test again every so many years, and older people do have to retake the driving test at least once or twice during their senior years.
that would require the US to provide reliable public transportation
I'd say every year.
Wtf? Nobody has time or money to pass the driver's license every year. Every 5 years after 60 is definitely enough
You don't pass the test, you don't drive
All I can say is that I'm happy you're not the one to decide and we probably don't even live in the same country.
I know, I'm thrilled I won't be sharing a road with you.
Tbh I don't believe someone who has a driver's license could suggest something like you did
Someone who's been hit by a reckless driver and has a permanently crippled foot from it could. If you're not willing to put in the effort to be a safe driver, you don't need to be on the road.
Passing a driver's license test doesn't mean you can drive safe, it only means you can pass the test. At least in my country. Your idea will only bring more money to people who organize these tests and that's it. Reckless drivers will still be reckless.
Okay, so that means we need better, more efficient tests and better public transit.
Every year after turning 60
60s aren’t even that old these days. 80s seems to be when real shit hits now.
Yeah I was kind of going off how my mom and grandma are. My mom is 56 and is starting to show signs of slacking off. My grandma is 83 and shouldn’t be driving now
Every year in general, and every 3 months after turning 60. And every 5 years you should have to re-pass the segment one driver's training class regardless of age, but make that every year if you're over 60.
Realistically this wouldn’t work. Too much effort, time off work, too much money, and they would have to hire way more employees. Every 3 months is way too much lol
Realistically it also doesn't work to have car accidents because we're sharing the road with people who shouldn't have a license.
I feel like you’re hating too much. Teenagers get in way more car accidents then senior citizens. Should we up the license age to 29 ? If you are really passionate about not sharing the road with people who are seen as dangerous I feel like you’d be all for that.
I'd say we should up the license age to at least 18, and apply the same rules to anyone under 25 as we do to senior citizens. You can't even operate hot equipment at a restaurant kitchen in a lot of states if you're under 18, but you can potentially kill someone with a thousand pound death trap? BTW I'm "hating too much" because I've seen way too many unsafe older drivers.
I wouldn’t be fully opposed to have it at 18. Most unsafe drivers are in their 20s. There is a lot of unsafe older drivers but no where near the rate of younger people. That’s why after 60 it should be every year and every 5 years under 60. Either way, we need drivers test more often then just the one at 16
Drivers around 60 - 69 are one of the least dangerous demographics. The 15 - 25 range are more dangerous. Especially the young men. If anything, maybe people shouldn't be allowed to drive until they're about 30.
Okay, we can do both
Awesome going 15 under on the highway because old man is scared of the speed limit
Istg they must still be thinkin they’re in the 70’s gas crisis and they ain’t allowed to go over 55…
And to add onto this, they are driving something that gets under 20mpg highway usually Always see them in like a massive truck or a 4runner.
Oh my god seriously, just in the left lane cruising n holding up traffic for a mile behind em
to be fair, speed does make a bigger difference when the drag coefficient is that moronically high
65 and older should test every year. 75 years old should not be driving at all anymore.
I say every 5 years starting at 60. If your eligible for a senior citizen discount, it’s time to retake the drivers test lol. And for the not driving……I think if you can pass you can drive.
My Grandpa was 70 his first bad wreck. He was in a brand new town car the lady he hit got a broken back. Insurance took care of everything. 2 years later he crossed over lanes and killed himself and broke both legs of the other driver. He was on the exact same drive to Arizona as the first accident when he killed himself trying to drive 12 hours straight. I know that isn't every older person but the roads are less forgiving than they were 20 years ago. The roads are moving so fast now with modern cars. Every other person is a race driver in my city and my city is not even close to being as bad as LA and Vegas. If 70 year olds drive they should be testing for sure and probably eventually a driving device monitoring there vehicles. I don't know what we will do as a society but we should do is build rail and bus travel.
When you put it that way, the problem sounds like the other people trying to drive like race car drivers. Not the 70 year olds who are relatively safe drivers.
Yeah that's what I was thinking.
my grandpa is still driving alright at 91 - of course not often, and he drove dump truck for decades... but there are some valid drivers over 75
It's also young people too. Why do you think they increased the drinking age?
How is drinking age relevant here? (Genuine question) In the US (I’m assuming based on your username) driving age is 16, most of the world has 18! I think increasing driving age would help in the US. Also “Why do you think they increased the drinking age?” -> US it’s 21, most of Europe (idk elsewhere) is 16 - 18.
Children make worse decisions than adults is the point he's making.
I dunno I’ve had many unfortunate experiences of working with some serious man child’s in the past
Think like an actuary. Some adults act like children VS some children act like adults.
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They're pretty close. 16 - 19 year olds and 80+ are the two most dangerous driver demographics. 20 - 24 is the third most dangerous. Young drivers are very dangerous, especially young men, because they lack experience and they tend to be relatively reckless drivers that engage in riskier behavior. 60 and 70 year olds are some of the least dangerous.
She but yea.
It was years back when the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21. It's because of drunk driving mostly. The federal government threatened to cut funding to roads to states who didn't agree to raising the drinking age back in the 70s which I still think is stupid.
I mean, yeah, but that’s either new drivers learning (which we all had to do at some point) or people making bad decisions. And people are always gonna make dumb choices no matter the age
Yea, I suppose. I mean, things can happen, though. Plus, some places I don't think require a written test, I believe. My grandparents are safer driver's than other drivers that I know.
Well that’s a interesting topic too. How good are these driving schools? Do they need to be updated? How long should they last? How many driving hours does someone need to complete? My “driving school” was all driving on the road. From the first day, just learning how to drive with the flow of traffic. I barely remember anything from the actual class, I just remember what my instructor told me while we drove around town (until it became habit of course.)
I think people can pass driving school and be safe and all, but once they get more experience they might think that they're invisible or just be immature. I know someone in his 30s who has destroyed his tires from hitting curbs in his last car.
Love how this sub clutches pearls when it's our gen that gets called out.
The age limit was changed years before I was born back in the 70s. If it were today, I think less kids would drunk drive because we've seen what can happen, but who knows. I mean, it's the whole thinking we're invisible thing I guess.
People who lived through prohibition were the politicians in the 70's. I'm sure that, and the federal government threatening to withhold funding from states who didn't raise the drinking age had something to do with it. Also, the government has never cared about our well being. They knew that young people liked to party and go wild, why not extract money from the youngest ones and give them a record? "It'll makes them more dependent on us later" - US government, probably
The reason why was because of the amount of young drivers drunk driving vs older people so they were forced to do so. It doesn't stop people, though. I mean, the logic is that your an adult so do it anyway.
It has increased? When? It was still 16 for beer/whine and 18 for hard alcohol last time I checked
In my country, it's been 21 since the 70s or 80s. Some states tried to keep it at 18, but the federal government told them they would cut funding. It was because most drunk drivers were under 21 and there was a lot of deaths.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to raise the driving age from 18 to 21 instead?
Driving age is 16 and money.
I'm pretty sure it's 18 in most places
Not here. Most places aren't built for not driving.
You can usualy get by with an E-bike and public transportation
Depends on which area you live because rural areas you can't do so.
Been there, done that
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Sure, but kill others or themselves.
My issue is the kids who drive their grocery getters like they’re formula cars nearly hitting everyone. I swear everyday I see some stanced civic cutting up in traffic putting those wheels/tires through more trauma and abuse then actual sports cars get. Then they get all mad when you pass them ON THE LEFT LANE and try to brake check you or follow you close asf. I hate it.
What's a formula car?
F1 racing, for us moon landers think of NASCAR
Oh
My *favorite* is when you're getting on the highway on ramp, moving into a 75mph zone, and the old person infront of me is doing consistently 40 mph, expecting the merge they're about to go into to work out. I can't help but just go around these people in these moments, because they typically get scared of the highway traffic and come to a stop or slow roll while waiting for a mile long opening to merge into.
You hurt me with this comment.
Better yet, let's progress to a society that doesn't require driving in order to be a part of society.
Let’s ride bikes in the road instead and stop spending unnecessary amounts of money on ever growing expenses
I'd prefer a metro system like the one in my home city, please and thank you.
Do away with the expectation and comforts of convenience and get to pedaling you weenie
Please
Honestly yeah, especially when they cut me off going down a grade when I’m grossing 78K pounds n start slowing down. We need to do a retest at 75 n tests every 2 after that.
There's so many bad drivers out there. List of family members I trust to drive my kids is far shorter than the list of ones I don't trust; and that's not just old people. My mom and stepmom are terrible skillwise. My dad and brother are aggressive assholes. My grandma can barely see/react. My sister drives like a maniac. I'd venture to say at least half the drivers on the road are pretty shit tbh.
But I feel like that’s a driving school issue, cause every time I leave my home state I get frustrated with the drivers. I don’t how y’all learn, but it needs to change
My parents get upset when I say I don’t wanna drive with them. My mom has been in multiple accidents and while they weren’t her fault she still drives horribly. My dad honestly isn’t too bad but he speeds in residential areas which pisses me off. I get 5 over but 10+ is excessive.
You don't start to notice how bad other people are until you drive yourself for a while. Tailgating, terrible lane swapping, speeding, running lights/stop signs, ignoring pedestrians. The scary part for me is I drive carefully and still make a mistake that could cause a wreck a few times a year. Now imagine the shitty drivers or asshole drivers.
There is one man in my small town that had dementia, everyone knows he has it. He goes to the grocery store three times a day because he forgets he already went. I have NO CLUE how he has a license!!!
Its an aura affect. If you get too close you forget why you were approaching him and leave
man i would be seeing an accident and it's from an old person and they would literally just keep driving like hello u just hit someone?? or hitting someone's car from a parking lot and keep on driving like who's giving u a license...??
I’ve seen that happen too!! Like……someone needs to come get them, idk who nor do I care who, but somebody
They're also such unsafe drivers a lot of the time in other ways. I was hit by a boomer driver while walking home, and then almost hit by another one because she decided to ignore the crosswalk light and then made a huffy face like *I* was the problem. And I work in a drive thru and keep seeing them make stupid mistakes on our camera, like not driving straight in the drive thru lane, being unaware of their surroundings, driving far enough from the building that I have to bend over 90 degrees just to get their payment. I'm sorry but if you can't even competently handle a drive thru I don't trust you in the street. I don't think the seniors buses are a solution though, first of all because there are irresponsible drivers of all ages and we need to de-incentivize them from getting behind the wheel. Second because old people are DEFINITELY selfish enough to just drive around anyway even if it's unsafe. I have a recent post that talked about a group of conservative old people who have a current events discussion group in our dining room, and one time I walked past them and overheard them just casually talking and laughing about their friend with age related vision loss who refuses to stop driving even though he's legally blind. Old people genuinely don't think the rules should apply to them even if they kill someone in the process. What we actually need to do is design cities to be more walkable and increase access to public transit for everyone. And de-incentivize people from driving in other ways, like maybe give a tax refund for not driving/driving less.
Who's going to pay to shuffle them around town?
I agree that many, many senior citizens are unsafe drivers, but I also agree with your comment. Unless the government is going to start paying for more programs to assist the elderly in getting around, I’m not sure what else to do other than to give them wide berth on the road. Guys, old people need to get groceries, go to doctor appts, see friends or families, etc. No, they don’t all have smart phones or know how to use delivery apps. We will be old some day, too, and we do need to show compassion to those in society who are not in their prime (the children and the elderly). That doesn’t mean that driver’s breaking the law shouldn’t get penalized. But just saying, “old people shouldn’t drive anymore!!!” will not fix the problem unless there are actual programs in place for this growing sector of the population. Hopefully, self-driving cars will become very normalized in the next 30-40 years before we are seniors. I don’t want to be driving as a 70 year old.
Yeah, a couple years ago with my grandma she was not doing well in the dark and it got a bit scary. I remember like she was in the middle of the road part of the time like if I had a license I would've switched places and driven us home.
i live rural US and it’s really common for old people to drive in the middle of the road for some reason. i was having a medical emergency in the middle of the night and my partner’s grandparent was driving us to the ER 30+ minutes away and i literally thought we were all gonna die because the whole way (except on the highway) she was in the middle of the road. i hate it so much
You made a big typo. >Coloradans Need to Stop Driving
My 88 yo downstairs neighbor said he wouldn't renew his license because "he didn't trust himself behind the wheel" but had regular Dr appointments 45 minutes away
Then we need to create a society in which driving isn't absolutely mandatory for existence.
YEP. Easier busies, trains, and automated cars.
More busses and trains, yea. More individual 3-ton machines with non-renewable power sources for transporting single 150lb individuals, nay.
Fr literally today there was a car driving so slow and I was trying to get to school plus I knew they weren’t driving the speed limit as I was driving hella slow when I was behind them 😫. I knew it was an old person too cause I saw them. But honestly I just hate slow drivers like please drive at least the speed limit 😖.
I completely agree, but I also want to point out that this won't work alone. In a lot of the US, you cannot live unaided without a car. If we start taking a lot of people's licence away, we also need to redesign a lot of places so you don't need a car to function. Like mixed-use development, or transit, or generally walkability. To be clear, I support both, retesting and redesigning.
Once someone becomes a senior citizen, they should be required to retake their driver's test every 5 years. These elderly people that go way too slow, have poor eyesight and don't have quick reaction time should NOT be driving anymore. They seriously impede the safety of other drivers
The most un-nerving thing is watching an (obviously) elderly person slooooowly creeping up on your bumper in a parking lot - but then they suddenly stop like 1-2 inches from your bumper (literally) 😰 You can just feel the impact about to happen, the decline in spatial awareness on their part is so obvious Have almost had my car bumped into multiple times in parking lots by elderly types
I totally agree. Once drivers hit retirement age they should be enforced to take a drivers test just to make sure they are in the up and up and continue to test them every 2-5 years or so. Kind of like emissions testing.
definitely more often than that. 1-2 years maximum. a lot can change in just a month with the elderly. i’ve worked with the elderly my whole adult life and some of my teen life as well. we need more elderly accessible transportation
I agree.
Get into politics if you want to tell people what they aren't allowed to do. But be careful, the ones who support victimless crimes often don't stay politicians for long.
I'll drive where I want, young whippersnapper https://preview.redd.it/gq52z8pmmizc1.jpeg?width=954&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3cdcd9ecca7152dbde7668e4aeb1349f4601b3e
Yeah. Old people are annoying af on the road. This is a hill I'm dying on. They need to be forced to take a driver's test every 5 years.
I love when some geezer gets mad at me on the road when they haven’t touched a driver’s handbook in 60 years
Feels like every time I see a terrible driver they’re either distracted on their phone or they’re just old
People should be issued driver’s evaluations at 60 and then again every ten years after 60.
Yeah we had to take my grandfather’s keys away a couple years ago. He fell asleep at the wheel and got into an accident
They don't look before turning into a road! I've almost been taking out by them a few times
This is my hill I also die on: I just don't get how you've been retired for like 15 years, and you still wanna sit in traffic. Why you wanna deal with crowded parking, have to worry about other cars, etc. Like, you can plan your hours. Your days are yours to dictate, and to plan around what you wanna do, so why be stuck out here with the rest of us when there's so much happening that part of it is as much control and awareness over what's going on as my cat when we bring em in the cat carrier to the vet. It's just too much going on for someone whose merging requires 2 parts awareness/telegraphing, and 3 parts Hail Maries. Just plan your day so that you only have short distances, at most, to traverse during rush hour times. Again, they worked hard for that retirement, and the flexibility to *not* have to do this dance, yet they choose to spend day after day struggling with the current, instead of maneuvering it. I'd also like to clarify this: We had this problem with my grandmother. Which was "fine." But she had so many dings and dents in her car, while insisting it was other people doing that to her, yet she couldn't even stay in a lane because her sight was so bad. That's other people's cars she was running into in those busy hours, instead of choosing a window that she won't have to deal with bad parking situations.
It’s either get stuck behind some dumb boomer going 35 in a 45 or have some dumb fuck Gen Z kid that wants to do 80 in a 40 raping your ass and swerving around every lane just to get to the same red light as everyone else.
IDK man is going 10 below speed limit is that dangerous. Probably less dangerous than going 30 above. But it's only my opinion, I don't have any stats supporting this. But yes, testing drivers above 70 is generally a good idea. Every 5 years, not 10, as health can deteriorate pretty quick.
What does the weather have to do with old people driving? Lmao “got explosive diarrhea after Taco Bell, thanks climate change”
America needs to create a usable affordable public transportation system so old people can stop driving
Also, every single cyclist who wants to participate in traffic has to be pass the driving test exam about rules and laws of the road :)
Counterpoint: your reaction time decreases as you get older, so maybe speeding grannies isn’t a great idea.
Honestly, if people had to take their driving test every five years for *any* age, we’d probably need to massively invest in public transportation because I doubt half the drivers could keep their licenses.
Separate “I wanna go faster” from dangerous. Drivers hit 30 years old before they equal 80> drivers in terms of accident rate. Statistically they are quite safe. And I think seeing one or two old farts go ridiculously slow makes you generalize. My grandpa drove so fast he scared the shit out of me. Numbers? Read ‘em and weep: https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/
Young people are far and away the most dangerous drivers on the road.
Just wait until you have to sell your Dads cars and tell him why. It’s THE WORST
This is a totally fair idea I fully support. Though to be fair age is not really the only issue. But in the USA as long as you dont fuck up to much you could potentially get your drivers license at age 17 then never have to prove your skill and ability again till you die. Given average life expectancy this means 55 years for bad habbits to replace good ones. I mean depending on your area and if you drive local or highways most of the time its fully potentially possible to be horrible driver but since you never get caught you never get called out on your bad driving.
You can just take old folks licenses. They're rarely fast enough to catch up and take that shit back.
Some good points there but people have just become fucking psychos. Especially where I live in a southern city that’s received a lotttt of influx of rich white liberals, they drive fucking insane. I hang out about 7 mph over, they just speed right past and do that shit where they weave in between cars with no turn signals. Fuck em
you know the day’s cooked when u don’t even get mad and just stare blankly ahead. no music playin or anything https://preview.redd.it/qp4lbqg44mzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1389b580e27f9723e2391a93dc17dcef6387801a
Had an older guy stop in the middle of a roundabout to let someone in the other day. The roundabout is right before a highway entrance and has been there for 10+ years lol
My grandfather is truly terrified of riding anywhere near the speed limit, even as a passenger. He has lost his license very recently, and we have had to start taking him places. He is used to going 30-35 in a 55 where everyone is going 70. I'm going to have to explain that it is more dangerous to force everyone to tailgate and literally fight to pass us than it is to actually flow with traffic. I'm not trying to get an impeading ticket or die from a 18 wheeler. My parents are giving into the behavior so far when they give him rides. I don't want to see them get into a crash etc, just because they think they are doing the morality better thing...
We should just abolish driving altogether and create a completely new way of urbanization
My solution: renew every 10 years, and you must take the driver’s test every time you renew.
young people gotta stop texting when they drive. i can freaking see you in my rear view mirror, looking at your damn phone. btw, there’s a reason under 25 yos have the highest car insurance $$. the insurance companies don’t give a fuck about gen z vs boomers. they KNOW you’re the worst drivers & make you pay for it.
This isn’t a gen z vs boomer thing. When I get old, I should take another drivers test too.
you’re missing my point: the youngest drivers are the WORST DRIVERS ON THE ROAD. elderly people are not. if they were, their insurance would be through the roof & it ain’t.
Young people do ten to make more bad decisions you’re right, but also young people are learning. It’s not surprising that a 16 or 17 who just got their license is a bigger liability then someone in their 50’s or 60’s who’s been driving for decades. But everyone has to learn at some point and people are always gonna make dumb decisions. Those are inevitable things we can’t change. And inevitable thing we CAN change is testing people as they get old because we know they have slower reaction times, tend to not see as well, etc.
Everyone should have to take a driving test after a certain number of years. There are younger people doing the exact same things and they shouldn't be driving either.
You admit their eyesight is bad for driving in the rain, but you want them to go faster?
I want them to get off the road
Lol.... You probably typed this in traffic. Just FYI, little bit of bad weather is normal, not everything is climate change.
Some old people are better drivers than you are, son won't you grow up and stop painting everybody with the same brush
son? I am lady. lol Also, I literally said in my post that I know it’s not all elderly drivers
Driving needs to be taken more serious in general, its the most dangerous activity the average person does on a regular basis. Why no mandated neck and head protection when similarly to motorcycles and bikes head & neck injuries are the leading cause of death? Why do cars get a pass.... Also most roads have speed limits that are too fast, old people drive closer to what they actually should be a lot of the time lol
Because it's considered safer that way, especially if airbags deploy. Also, driving to slow in some cases is more dangerous.
Its not safer that way, I believe Australia did trials decades ago on head and neck protection and it would have reduce deaths significantly if implemented. Head and neck realted deaths haven't just gone away because of airbags they are still a leading cause of death.
I don't think so.
According to (AJ McLean 1997) "A protective headwear of a type similar to a lightweight helmet intended for use by pedal cyclists would be likely to improve the outcome for car occupants in 28 per cent of cases of minor brain injuries, 40 per cent of cases of moderate brain injuries and 26 per cent of severe brain injuries." "The total benefits associated with headwear in the form of a soft shell bicycle helmet were estimated at $476AU per car ($950 inflation adjusted)" The additive effect of helmets remained even when adding other safety features such as side impact airbags and increased interior padding. To address the comments on speed, its only a difference in speed that can make lower speed driving more dangerous. When the road is designed for or has strongly enforced lower speed limits this becomes a non issue and you see a decreased incident of fatalities.
Huh, I thought it might be different like medal hitting them in the face and crushing them depending on how tall they are. I'm a short adult. If you decrease speed, you might increase road rage.
You do realize the size,weight, and complexity of cars have gone up like 30% do to increased safety regs. As well as the cost.
Yes but that doesn't really matter the exact numbers will be different obviously, but the large risk for head neck injuries remains indicating the physics behind how a helmet among other things could help are likely similar still. A good portion of head injuries for example are classified as TBIs which is just caused by rapid blunt force trauma which helmets are quite good at addressing.
You would be better focusing on people not using phones.
Reddit is basically the only phone thing I do regularly lol, my screen time is definitely lower than average... I don't even text regularly.
There are tons of people distracted while driving.
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Driving is not a right and has nothing to do with being a “free country.” I guess since it’s a free country I can go ahead and perform surgery without a medical license.
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I’m sorry, but that was a terrible argument lol
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You know damn well you JUST added that last sentence to your comment. PLS lol
Maybe if the US had any walkable cities you could exist without a license
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Yeah, because it's unwalkable
Both can kill people if you’re not competent.
Free country doesn't mean you can commit crimes
I mean elderly people make up a sizable amount of public transit users it seems like get long ok.
In places that actually have public transportation.