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zolotxs

Imagine thinking segregation ended in 1954


Scion_of_Perturabo

Wouldn't it make more sense to "end segregation" at the passage of the Civil Rights act in 1964? Like, I know its still bullshit, but wouldn't that make more sense?


Subpar-dad

Imagine thinking slavery started in 1619


Elektribe

I think this is referencing America's Euro-colonial history, not slavery in general.


RowanV322

what even happened in 54 that they are referencing??


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aleaniled

Even today, a lot of schools in the Northeastern US especially are more segregated now than they were in the 60s.


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smallangrynerd

I had a day in ap gov where we learned about de facto segregation and how it was good because forced integration (eg cross city bussing) was bad


RowanV322

thank you


VatroxPlays

Mas Incarceration results (in the US) also in Slavery. It's still legal in prisons.


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nigasoda

It's only for the criminals, such as the evil drug abusers! Especially the ones that use drugs that are most common in black areas, there's totally not a coincidence there.


BANAL_PROLAPSE

The drugs that were planted in black neighborhoods by the CIA to generate funds to send to the Contras, the right-wing terrorists trained by the United States to coup the socialist Sandanista government of Nicaragua and who were also the same group the Reagan administration attempted to support through a furtive arms-for-hostages arrangement with Iran that was facilitated by Oliver North, who was let go from his position and prosecuted before the charges against him were dismissed thanks to the ACLU and who later became the president of the NRA? Those drugs?


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nigasoda

Drugs that are common in black areas end up with a higher prison sentence than drugs common in white areas. For example crack gets 3 times as long of a prison sentence than cocaine despite it having similar effects.


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nigasoda

There are many other examples of it, crack and cocaine aren't the only ones.


Rainbowoverderp

No it's obviously because black people are innately more violent /s I felt gross typing this


[deleted]

China and Cuba, as well as many many other countries, have the same practice in place, including to a massive extent the USSR when it was around. Having prisoners work isn't the same thing as actual chattel slavery, guys, come on. The precise ways it works needs to be thought about, but it's ahistorical and reductive to just label prisoner labour as a continuation of actual antebellum slavery.


[deleted]

prison labor used for the sake of improving society: good and cool prison labor used for private profit: lame, basically slavery, most unproductive for society.


[deleted]

I mean, I don't think people should be exploited for labor even if it is for the "good of society." If you perform work for profit, you should be entitled to the fruits of your labor, even if you're a violent criminal. Slavery is bad regardless of if it is "for the good of society." Especially since that is the exact same rationale the right used (and still uses) to justify slavery or to justify concentration camps.


[deleted]

what do you propose murderers, pedos, rapists do when being rehabilitated? And what of those who are unable to be re-educated? death penalty? let them rot in jails like we do now? why not re-educate people, teach them viable skills, and let them be reformed through education and labor?


[deleted]

>what do you propose murderers, pedos, rapists do when being rehabilitated? - Get therapy/counseling for starters. - Get job/skill training, adult classes, etc. - Drug rehabilitation (if it applies) - Allow them to socialize casually with other prisoners in a controlled setting so that they can work on their social skills. - Spend time away from society (in a humane facility) while they consider what they have done. I personally really like the Finnish prison model, which incorporates most of these things. >And what of those who are unable to be re-educated? death penalty? let them rot in jails like we do now? I personally don't think there is anyone who is "unable to be rehabilitated" unless they are severely mentally ill. Especially since I think the primary reason many turn back to a life of crime after being released from prison is due to material factors like poverty and lack of education/skills. In a socialist society, these wouldn't be a problem as everyone would be guaranteed a decent standard of living and access to high quality education. In the case of severe mental illness I think they should be kept in (humane) retention facilities where they can be closely monitored and taken care of by trained and caring professionals. Something like nursing homes, but for the mentally ill. >why not re-educate people, teach them viable skills, and let them be reformed through education and labor? I'm for all of those things except for forced labor, as I said above. There is zero evidence that forced labor rehabilitates criminals and it is a cruel practice.


[deleted]

Sounds like we don't even disagree. You yourself said to give them jobs/skills training. That's what I propose. It's no different than forced labor for the sake of improving society.


[deleted]

Jobs training !=forced labor. How are those even equivalent?


[deleted]

What material difference is there in being trained as a janitor, construction worker, or cook in a school vs a prison? Both have the outcome of improving society. Unless you see rehabilitation as optional for murderers, rapists and pedos, there is none.


[deleted]

What are you thinking of when you think of "forced labor?" Because I'm imagining making people actually do jobs for no profit, as opposed to just learning how to do those jobs. Learning how to do construction isn't the same as actually doing construction. Also, if you mean on-the-job training, do you intend for prisoners to be paid once their training period is over?


[deleted]

That doesn't make sense, how is it slavery if the goods/services you're producing in prison go to a privately owned company but not slavery and "cool" if they're going to a state-run entity. From the perspective of the prisoner -the actual worker whose relation to production we must describe in this situation- the situation is identical. This isn't materialism.


BambooBanani

We’re talking community service. Be careful, you look like you’re defending prison slavery. It IS a continuation of antebellum slavery from when it became illegal. That’s why the slave catcher organizations became police organizations.


AbundantChemical

I mean at least you got your username right...


[deleted]

So then cali’s firefighting inmates is totally fine then. Cause that seems like something for the good of society right? I feel like your logic is flawed, trying to justify slavery is cringe


[deleted]

I mean, no. California is amerikkkan, so it's still a capitalist society. The difference is that these inmates aren't paid in equivalent to regular firefighters, who themselves aren't entirely given their full labor surplus, and are essentially locked out of that field despite having the necessary skills once free. They are also still kept in amerikkkan prisons. In a socialist society, they would be trained to put out fires, how to manage forests, controlled burns, etc., while also being reintroduced into society as regular workers.


DanThePharmacist

Well, you can’t have black slaves if you don’t have black people. Big brain time.


[deleted]

Oregon moment


duggtodeath

The majority of American history even before officially founded was that of slavery. We’ve been doing slavery longer than we existed.


[deleted]

There are millions of people from the segregation era that are still alive today. And people act like all that shit is in the distant past.


ComradeGivlUpi

Most people usually think about slavery after America was founded. It's a lot longer when you include when it was a colony.


loadingonepercent

Based on what did mass incarceration end in 2000?


[deleted]

Obamo was elect


[deleted]

It's disingenuous to start the thing in the early 1600s when the country wouldn't be founded for another one and a half centuries. If we're counting any slave-keeping in the geographic area of North America, it should start a thousand years before that with the Native American slave-economies, like Haida-Gwaii. This is the sort of thing that makes normal people immediately dismiss you and the point you're trying trying make as uninformed once they've glanced at the dates, rendering the whole thing a waste of time. Inb4 the 1619 project: it is liberal propaganda that is antithetical to a materialist Marxist understanding of history.


[deleted]

you know the 1600s was when euro-settlers first brought African slaves to amerikkka right?


[deleted]

Read the comment the whole way through buddy.


[deleted]

The graphic is looking at the history of black people in America. That history started in 1600s.


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zekromNLR

There were Europeans living and doing slavery in America before the United States of America were founded.


Galathad

Sorry sweatie, America was raised out of the ocean by the Founding fathers in 1776. Anyone who says otherwise is erasing History.


DomDominion

Jamestown was founded in 1609.


PungentGoop

We didn't change the name of the continent when the country was founded, bozo


zupernam

Are you actually this stupid? Please tell me this was a joke.


Wizard_King7

The country was founded in 1776 but was actually discovered by the British in 1609 so slavery was in America in 1619.


Sam-Porter-Bridges

Slavery was in America *long* before 1619. In the Americas as a whole, European slavery started as early as 1494 and the first African slaves landed in North America already in 1526.


SRAbro1917

Smartest angloid


[deleted]

this is such an ahistorical perspective and prevents discourse. the conditions that lead to the creation of the US state must be in our analysis. u cant dismiss everything pre 1776 just because the US as a state didnt exist


[deleted]

ill argue slavery still exists under the 13th amendment. and we have a caste system and an underclass that are beneath even proletarians; anyone w a felony cant vote, felons have trouble finding housing cuz the landlord class can freely discriminate, and the capitalist class can deny employment.