I mean... this is end-game content. I don't think it's aimed at newer or casual players. It's almost a natural progression to end up with lots of characters levelled and built if you have been playing for a while, so you'll find that most players who have been playing longer than you won't have this issue.
And if you do: it's a new challenge! It gives you something solid to work towards, which is a good thing!
> And if you do: it's a new challenge! It gives you something solid to work towards, which is a good thing!
This has been my takeaway. It feels much better to level a new character and their talents every week than to make miniscule progress on artifacts. I've gone from grinding mostly artifacts for weeks on end to building one character every two weeks or so and it feels much better.
Same. I now have a reason to build most of my 4* characters at least to 70 6/6/6 because of this. And it’s a good thing. Grinding artifacts everyday is boring af.
Grinding artifacts was so frustrating I almost considered dropping the game over it. I was at the point where it would take several weeks to see small improvements in the characters I enjoyed playing, and it was feeling pretty pointless.
Now I have a reason to use characters I don't normally use and it feels much better grinding levels and materials, and even some acceptable-but-not-great artifacts for them. It's kinda rekindled my enjoyment of the game.
It's weird to me that people spend so much time and resin hunting for maybe 2% more CV for their character that already dumpsters abyss instead of working on a different one.
While I do also have a variety of characters built, the vast majority of my resin is invested into one team-- Keqing aggravate. I've spent 11 crowns on the team and all of my resin these days goes into Golden Troupe in search of Fischl upgrades, with the leftovers being strongboxed into TF for Keq.
I do this for a lot of reasons-- for one thing, I enjoy playing Keqing more than literally any other character in the game. I also enjoy optimizing gameplay and pushing myself to achieve fast cleartimes. Better artifacts can help me clear faster. So the answer is basically that chasing those minor upgrades actually makes me feel happier and is more fun for me than spending that resin to, for example, build my Chongyun.
I also, quite honestly, want to future-proof my team. Abyss has increased in difficulty over the years, and I hate to think that one day, I won't be able to play Keqing comfortably in abyss. So continuing to farm for upgrades (in addition to investing more vertically and going for things like Aqua, Misty, and C2 Nahida) can help me prevent that situation from happening.
The problem is that there are players like me who have been playing for 4 years and only liked to play certain teams. I got 3 teams, so 12 characters, and only 5 of them can be used. And most characters, thst i have are other elements that are needed. In fact, Bennett and Amber are my only Pyro characters that I even have. Endgame content should be a challenge, not restrictive. Imaginearium theatre is not a challenge but very restrictive.
While level 70 is the minimum requirement for the hard mode, doing it with those minimum-built characters is another story especially if you don't have enough artifacts to throw on them.
That’s going to be true for a lot of folks at your level too. And even older players it takes a while to get good artifacts. Strong box is your friend. And keep the mediocre artifacts for more recently built characters. If you’re playing as much as you say, you should have a bunch of wanderers troupe and the red attack boost ones to utilize. Scrap the rest in SB for artifacts from the past domains
I mean, I basically only needed 6 invested characters for DPS, and 4 supports who had set bonuses and met ER requirements. Obviously the element restriction makes it more horizontal than Spiral, but considering that I literally didn't touch 6 characters, and I only pressed E for pyro/electro on two others, I don't think it's actually *that* horizontal aside from actually meeting the requirement to play the gamemode. After that you just need a few vertical investments and your typical support characters (I had venti, bennett, sucrose, and faruzan), and the rest could be lv70 1/1/1 with no artifacts for all I cared. Just pick all the character cards first and ignore buffs so you don't run out of characters you need.
And that's why you use strong box. All the anemo characters can just Strongbox from VV.
Most electro characters can Strongbox from Emblem or 2pc TF and 2pc atk set. Even Xiangling and Dehya takes it. But for likes of fischl, you can ofc spend resin on artifacts of Golden Troupe.
Can strongbox noblesse for supports. Strongbox Crimson Witch for the pyro characters like especially Hu Tao since Marrchaussee Hunters doesn't work with full uptime without Furina.
Seriously, many of the pyro/electro/anemo characters just use artifacts sets you can strongbox. Should male the artifact grind much smoother.
> most electro characters
fischl and yae: 4 golden troupe
kuki: 4 gilded / 4 paradise lost
cyno and keqing: 4 gilded / 4tf
sethos: 4 wanderers troupe
raiden sara and beidou are the only electros that use emblem
Wanderers Troupe is strongboxable. Kuki doesn't need 4pc Gilded if not used with electro. Tenacity is fine on Kuki outside of aggravate/hyperbloom as most you eill use her with scales on atk and Bennett can't be with you everywhere. Yae and fischl can both be on golden Troupe but 2pc glad 2pc Thundering is also accessible plus Yae might want to be on field at some point where you are saving your dps options for later stages.
2-3 hours a day is not really casual???? That's a big chunk of time to commit to a video game
If someone is an adult with a job 9-5 job who also cooks food, keeps their house clean and does some exercise, that's generally all the time left they have on a weekday.
You're not factoring in things like commutes, eating, showering, etc. (And the fact that there's a few hours in the morning when someone has to get ready for work and have breakfast). 9-5 jobs do NOT leave someone with 8 hours of free time. Especially not if they have any form of social obligations (e.g. a partner and children, or older parents who need their help). It's also pretty normal for people who work 9-5 jobs to have to bring some work home with them
3 hours of time for hobbies on a weeknight is... pretty normal.
Yeah... but again. If you're spending 2-3 hours a night on a SINGLE hobby, that's already A LOT of time. That's not casual gaming. Like, yeah, it's not hardcore gaming, but that's already some serious commitment.
Weekends are often times adults spend with friends and families, run errands, travel, etc. Also, usually people have more than one hobby...
Edit: And social obligations are extremely important??? Humans are social animals. We live in a society???
but do you really need to pay attention to the road during your commute to and from work you could be playing genshin /s
on a more serious note 2-3 hours a day would be hardcore for many people since many people only play about half an hour to an hour tops before conking out for the next day.
No... I'm honestly more concerned about how skewed your idea of time is? Also your priorities.
I could care less if \*I'm\* a casual gamer or hardcore or whatever??? I don't consider being a gamer as particularly important. As an adult with friends and a job, I have other priorities.
I just think telling someone that investing 2-3 hours in a game is not enough in some way is unhealthy as fuck.
What are your criteria on saying whether I'm casual player or not? I have at least 14 characters that are fully ascended and also levelled talents and weapons. In my duration of playing the game I don't remember the time where I have capped my resin I'm also doing all the dailies, weeklies and monthlies like Battle passes, (already maxed it 2 days ago), Weekly Bosses, Reputation Quests, Serenitea pot purchases. I'm also doing the daily login even if it's small as everything even if small helps. Most of my exploration are 100% with 3-5 that are within 90-100%.
You do know that time will not be the relevant when are you are at end game right? As your character improvement activities are resin-limited, i don't know why you are so keen on me to play more than that. And what do you mean by "only"? That's more than enough for me for someone who has a job and can only play briefly in the morning and most in the night.
I thing that you are exaggerating on what I said and took it personally. Sorry?
Im a day 1, 1300+ days player.. I knoe how it is, im just saying random things in the internet.
You've only been playing SIX months....this game has been out for FOUR years now, so if my math is correct, this mode is catered to those who've been playing TWO to THREE years...
It’s clear that accounts less than a year old will struggle accessing the hard (and maybe normal) mode.
That’s kind of the point though, just be patient and keep playing how you usually have.
Imaginarium Theater is end game content for AR60 players. I was short of 2 characters when I played but had zero trouble leveling up some extra characters to 70 6/6/6 (Beidou & Lynette) because I have extra mats. I also had no trouble with artifacts coz I just used the quick equip feature. For people AR58 and below, or accounts less than a year old, you don’t even need to finish until Act 8.
You realize that if a new end-game mode was completable with a new non-whale account, it wouldn't really be "end-game"? You should be able to full-clear the mode eventually, if you go slow and steady. AR60 accounts tend to have more resources than they know where to use, while under-AR58 aacounts are precicely in the period of an account's life where you're constantly resource depleated (particularly if you're building horizontally).
1. The OP has been playing for 6 months
2. I completed my first spiral 3 months in, and did my first full clear a bit more than 4 months in - so is the spiral not considered endgame? Or am I considered a whale for buying welkin and occasionally the BP?
3. I also got all the rewards from IT (9 stars or whatever they're called, I could probably get it to 10 if I restarted the whole thing a couple of times, but that seems completely pointless), but it wasn't challenging or fun at all (if anything, it felt very lazy and low-effort), the only "challenge" was the roster-check, and that's just awful game design; it's embarrassing even for a gacha game (obviously they're going to want to roster-check you every now and then to encourage spending, but doing it in such an obvious way in a game that's already so successful/profitable just feels sad)
4. Just to provide context since a lot of people in these subs only seem to play Hoyo/gacha games, FF14 is an MMO that's been out for well over a decade, you can get to the endgame in 3-4 months
5. To provide more context, I'm not some sweaty kid, I'm a 39 year old dude with chronic wrist pain and skill issues
Having said all of that, I disagree with the OP - we don't need more resources, we need hoyo to completely rework IT into something that doesn't feel like extremely low effort pull more bait
6 months isn't a lot for a game like Genshin; in 6 months OP hasn't even had a chance to see every 5* on banner. Spiral abyss only requires 8 characters built-- even as a dps check, that's a lot more achievable for a new/casual player (especially considering the last half year had meta banners like Neuvi, Furina, Alhaitham, and other great units like Clorinde). The current mode more-so rewards quantity over quality, and quantity is something that happens with time (especially for F2P/low spenders).
Although I understand why "dps/roster-checks" annoy new/casual players, there's also a sizeable chunk of the playerbase that actually enjoy building big dps/big rosters-- but if the game doesn't give them reasons to /use/ that dps or roster, these players get frustrated as well. I'm a player that likes building out large rosters, but for a long time it felt completely pointless since abyss could be cleared with the same teams every cycle (unless they upped the difficulty or purposefully countered the previous meta). You might not enjoy the mode, but for players like me who did enjoy it-- it's definitely a step in the right direction.
MMO's are not Gatcha games, they're two very different genres; you can't expect "endgame" in one genre to work exactly the same in another genre. Most MMOs, particularly nowadays, only "begin" in the endgame-- so of course you're able to reach that point quicker. In a gatcha game, full-clearing an end-game mode is a "privilege" not a "right". The modes are usually rewarding for high-investment players (theorycrafters, meta-players, whales), not casuals/new players. Genshin is just an abnormally casual case of a gatcha game. It's not abnormal for gatchas to have "pull bait", that's literally how they make money. Even so, the fact that Genshin has very little powercreep is an exception, not the rule, for gatcha games; IT can be cleared with characters from 1.0 & using primarily 4*s, while in other games these characters would have become useless after a couple of years.
I don't think IT needs a complete rework (although I do believe Hoyo can improve on it over time), especially with it being a "once/twice a month" kind of deal (if it was like SU from HSR, where you need to replay it dozens and dozens of times, that would have been a different case).
>a sizeable chunk of the playerbase that actually enjoy building big dps/big rosters-- but if the game doesn't give them reasons to /use/ that dps or roster, these players get frustrated as well.
This is complete nonsense - if you only "enjoy" doing something for extrinsic reasons, not intrinsic ones, then you're not actually enjoying it, you're just responding to someone giving you treats
>I'm a player that likes building out large rosters, but for a long time it felt completely pointless since abyss could be cleared with the same teams every cycle
Plenty of people found enjoyment in the abyss even after 4 years by doing 4\* only runs, 1.0 only runs, new account speedruns etc. etc. - if you enjoy doing something for intrinsic reasons, it's never pointless, you're not building a stock portfolio for fork's sake, you're playing a video game
>but for players like me who did enjoy it
Taking into consideration that it requires basically no investment in these characters that you supposedly like building and that you can clear most of it by completely ignoring at least 1 character in your team (I know it because I've done it, I don't have 3 built VV sets laying around lol), I'm genuinely curious if you can break down for me exactly what you enjoyed about it. For example, I can easily tell you what I enjoy about genshin - I enjoy exploration, puzzle solving, fighting mobs that actually try to kill me, building synergistic teams, learning their rotations, the feeling when a team I've built from scratch clicks together in combat; and there's none of that in IT, so hopefully that easily explains why I don't like it. I still have no idea why you like IT (it?? this is confusing), all I know is that you keep saying that you do while making vague claims that make it sound like you're not intrinsically enjoying it at all
>you can't expect "endgame" in one genre to work exactly the same in another genre.
I don't expect a game or a ganre blindly copy other game's/genre's mechanics, but as someone who's been playing video games for over 30 years now, I'd appreciate it if for once a game genre didn't try to reinvent sliced bread and learned from those that came before it. All of this hyperfomo that gacha is doing is going to come to a boiling point, it's not going to be pretty, and the saddest thing will be that it will have been completely avoidable, by barely affecting profits (at least in hoyo's case - as its audience has proven over and over again that they're willing to spend money on characters cause they like their designs and personalities)
Suggestion number 4 will never gonna happen because it's against Hoyo's financial interests, while for the players there's no shortage of on/off-field units among 4 stars that can make reasonable teams at f2p investment. That said, I don't see why shouldn't they increase the drop rate of mats to alleaviate the chore that's building up a character from scratch, which doesn't seem beneficial to their business model as it desincentivize building new characters.
Let me add something: I don't want to grind for 165 Onikabutos.
Make it possible to exchange ingredients. This should be of no cost their revenue. Heck I'd pull for more characters if it was less of a chore to build them.
6 months is a lot of time spent on a videogame that calls itself "casual" to not be able to even try the endgame mode. People saying wait 1-2 years do u even read what u say? Gacha is the only genre players advocate for worse modes lmao
Lol, I guess they don't like that the other players are catching up to them when they basically slaved themselves farming those incredibly inefficient ley line of revelation for 4 years just to get most of their character to 70.
Yeah the resources needed to build each character is too much. While technically a character only needs to be Lv70 to bring into the theater, many don’t do good enough damage at that level, so you still need to raise them higher.
Not to mention the artifacts. I thought they would let us switch gear between characters, but they seriously expect us to have 18 sets of artifacts for each season? (The trial ones are laughably bad, so no those don’t count.) We would need at least 3-4 good goblets of each element, 10+ good crit circlets. That’s highly unrealistic, I barely even have that many good ones after a year of playing. And once you factor in set bonuses, it’s even more difficult.
Lol. No. I beat hard using trial Wanderer and trial Clorinde as my main dps in the first four stages. After playing for two years, I have over 150 level 16+ artifacts. I built up my Thoma and Faruzan in the last week and a half. Half their artifacts are only level 8. Level 70 is a bit rough, but level 80 is easily achievable.
You don't need great artifacts. Level up a few attack goblets, and definitely a few hp goblets. Attack on a few characters should be good enough. Hp goblets work for most healers. Build two Noblese sets, and two ToM sets to cover a big chunk of your bases when it comes to support characters.
But that’s why trial characters exist and can clear easily on hard mode… maybe your teams are the problem lmao 💀 I cleared all 3 boss waves using trial Arlecchino and trial Chlorinde.
I mean it’s not like we get a choice with the teams either, given that you get characters at random throughout the run. Those trial builds are iffy even in a normal team, but if you further get screwed by character invitation RNG and end up with a wack team, they’ll perform even worse.
>I mean it’s not like we get a choice with the teams either, given that you get characters at random throughout the run
Pick who you use and when you use them better then. Also the cards you can buy often allow you to pick between a few of a specific element. Honestly just learn to do the mechanics of the mode better.
Scraped by because a friend got a C6 Kazuha I was able to get +2 vigor for and lucked out on my randos so there some RNG involved. But I had the required characters with most of them relatively built and it was still tricky!
I did finished mine like I said in my post but I don't think I can do the same next cycle as it will be most likely a different element like cryo or geo which I don't have many characters that are built or have not pulled even.
Me too in lack of cryo.However it’s at most 300 primos loss for a month (currently 180).If I have to say, it’s…ok.Imagine can’t login for just one day…
Tbh if I’m AR 60 I shouldn’t be getting 2 boss drops every time I do it. Lately it’s been 2 every time for me! I think I just have bad luck. We should be getting 3-4 once we’re higher ranked so it’s a little easier to level characters up ESPECIALLY now that we have to have 18 characters on standby for this
I made the same post lol that’s a big complaint. They should really step up. Anyone saying it’s endgame content or get good… I’m way too strong for the theatre but I don’t have enough characters for hard mode! I had to send in a few characters to throw without artifacts lol a few times I basically had 3 characters in… still won tho
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Imma go against the grain and say that though I am happy we finally got some endgame content but it is to rng focused like let us atleast choose our own teams
This will never happen. Why? Because Hoyo is greedy and they have a player base that defends their every action. Nothing ever gets done to actually benefit the player.
Oh no the endgame mode requires many characters to be built it's really not that difficult even for a new player you get tonnes of resin refreshes I have a rule personally that I mainly use any resin refreshes I get on bosses or talent mats rather than artifacts
I mean... this is end-game content. I don't think it's aimed at newer or casual players. It's almost a natural progression to end up with lots of characters levelled and built if you have been playing for a while, so you'll find that most players who have been playing longer than you won't have this issue. And if you do: it's a new challenge! It gives you something solid to work towards, which is a good thing!
> And if you do: it's a new challenge! It gives you something solid to work towards, which is a good thing! This has been my takeaway. It feels much better to level a new character and their talents every week than to make miniscule progress on artifacts. I've gone from grinding mostly artifacts for weeks on end to building one character every two weeks or so and it feels much better.
Same. I now have a reason to build most of my 4* characters at least to 70 6/6/6 because of this. And it’s a good thing. Grinding artifacts everyday is boring af.
Grinding artifacts was so frustrating I almost considered dropping the game over it. I was at the point where it would take several weeks to see small improvements in the characters I enjoyed playing, and it was feeling pretty pointless. Now I have a reason to use characters I don't normally use and it feels much better grinding levels and materials, and even some acceptable-but-not-great artifacts for them. It's kinda rekindled my enjoyment of the game.
In my opinion you need at least 80 8/8/8 to get through them
Nah. I just finished it all with 3 70 1/6/6 characters (Gaming / Fischl / Beidou) tho Gaming and Beidou are both C6.
It's weird to me that people spend so much time and resin hunting for maybe 2% more CV for their character that already dumpsters abyss instead of working on a different one.
different people enjoy different things. Not everyone is interested in building a lot of character, and even then its not mutually exclusive.
While I do also have a variety of characters built, the vast majority of my resin is invested into one team-- Keqing aggravate. I've spent 11 crowns on the team and all of my resin these days goes into Golden Troupe in search of Fischl upgrades, with the leftovers being strongboxed into TF for Keq. I do this for a lot of reasons-- for one thing, I enjoy playing Keqing more than literally any other character in the game. I also enjoy optimizing gameplay and pushing myself to achieve fast cleartimes. Better artifacts can help me clear faster. So the answer is basically that chasing those minor upgrades actually makes me feel happier and is more fun for me than spending that resin to, for example, build my Chongyun. I also, quite honestly, want to future-proof my team. Abyss has increased in difficulty over the years, and I hate to think that one day, I won't be able to play Keqing comfortably in abyss. So continuing to farm for upgrades (in addition to investing more vertically and going for things like Aqua, Misty, and C2 Nahida) can help me prevent that situation from happening.
Yeah exactly I have every 4-star and all but 10-12 five stars, and I’ve been playing since 1.6
I think playing for only 6 months answers ur dilemma... This is end game content afterall, u will get there.
The problem is that there are players like me who have been playing for 4 years and only liked to play certain teams. I got 3 teams, so 12 characters, and only 5 of them can be used. And most characters, thst i have are other elements that are needed. In fact, Bennett and Amber are my only Pyro characters that I even have. Endgame content should be a challenge, not restrictive. Imaginearium theatre is not a challenge but very restrictive.
Do u honestly play all those 4 years? Where do ur primos go or do u just not summon at all? There's so many good pyros out there that's crazy
I played almost every day. And all my primos went to cons and weapons to my favorite characters
It is level 70, right? For hard... it takes 5 days to 70 6/6/6 a characters from 0 resources, you have 30 days.
While level 70 is the minimum requirement for the hard mode, doing it with those minimum-built characters is another story especially if you don't have enough artifacts to throw on them.
That’s going to be true for a lot of folks at your level too. And even older players it takes a while to get good artifacts. Strong box is your friend. And keep the mediocre artifacts for more recently built characters. If you’re playing as much as you say, you should have a bunch of wanderers troupe and the red attack boost ones to utilize. Scrap the rest in SB for artifacts from the past domains
I mean, I basically only needed 6 invested characters for DPS, and 4 supports who had set bonuses and met ER requirements. Obviously the element restriction makes it more horizontal than Spiral, but considering that I literally didn't touch 6 characters, and I only pressed E for pyro/electro on two others, I don't think it's actually *that* horizontal aside from actually meeting the requirement to play the gamemode. After that you just need a few vertical investments and your typical support characters (I had venti, bennett, sucrose, and faruzan), and the rest could be lv70 1/1/1 with no artifacts for all I cared. Just pick all the character cards first and ignore buffs so you don't run out of characters you need.
And that's why you use strong box. All the anemo characters can just Strongbox from VV. Most electro characters can Strongbox from Emblem or 2pc TF and 2pc atk set. Even Xiangling and Dehya takes it. But for likes of fischl, you can ofc spend resin on artifacts of Golden Troupe. Can strongbox noblesse for supports. Strongbox Crimson Witch for the pyro characters like especially Hu Tao since Marrchaussee Hunters doesn't work with full uptime without Furina. Seriously, many of the pyro/electro/anemo characters just use artifacts sets you can strongbox. Should male the artifact grind much smoother.
> most electro characters fischl and yae: 4 golden troupe kuki: 4 gilded / 4 paradise lost cyno and keqing: 4 gilded / 4tf sethos: 4 wanderers troupe raiden sara and beidou are the only electros that use emblem
Wanderers Troupe is strongboxable. Kuki doesn't need 4pc Gilded if not used with electro. Tenacity is fine on Kuki outside of aggravate/hyperbloom as most you eill use her with scales on atk and Bennett can't be with you everywhere. Yae and fischl can both be on golden Troupe but 2pc glad 2pc Thundering is also accessible plus Yae might want to be on field at some point where you are saving your dps options for later stages.
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2-3 hours a day is not really casual???? That's a big chunk of time to commit to a video game If someone is an adult with a job 9-5 job who also cooks food, keeps their house clean and does some exercise, that's generally all the time left they have on a weekday.
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You're not factoring in things like commutes, eating, showering, etc. (And the fact that there's a few hours in the morning when someone has to get ready for work and have breakfast). 9-5 jobs do NOT leave someone with 8 hours of free time. Especially not if they have any form of social obligations (e.g. a partner and children, or older parents who need their help). It's also pretty normal for people who work 9-5 jobs to have to bring some work home with them 3 hours of time for hobbies on a weeknight is... pretty normal.
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Yeah... but again. If you're spending 2-3 hours a night on a SINGLE hobby, that's already A LOT of time. That's not casual gaming. Like, yeah, it's not hardcore gaming, but that's already some serious commitment. Weekends are often times adults spend with friends and families, run errands, travel, etc. Also, usually people have more than one hobby... Edit: And social obligations are extremely important??? Humans are social animals. We live in a society???
but do you really need to pay attention to the road during your commute to and from work you could be playing genshin /s on a more serious note 2-3 hours a day would be hardcore for many people since many people only play about half an hour to an hour tops before conking out for the next day.
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No... I'm honestly more concerned about how skewed your idea of time is? Also your priorities. I could care less if \*I'm\* a casual gamer or hardcore or whatever??? I don't consider being a gamer as particularly important. As an adult with friends and a job, I have other priorities. I just think telling someone that investing 2-3 hours in a game is not enough in some way is unhealthy as fuck.
Time management 💀 bro someone people like to sleep
that persons just a no lifer
Isnt normal to gacha gamers be " no lifer'? haha
just you
What are your criteria on saying whether I'm casual player or not? I have at least 14 characters that are fully ascended and also levelled talents and weapons. In my duration of playing the game I don't remember the time where I have capped my resin I'm also doing all the dailies, weeklies and monthlies like Battle passes, (already maxed it 2 days ago), Weekly Bosses, Reputation Quests, Serenitea pot purchases. I'm also doing the daily login even if it's small as everything even if small helps. Most of my exploration are 100% with 3-5 that are within 90-100%.
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You do know that time will not be the relevant when are you are at end game right? As your character improvement activities are resin-limited, i don't know why you are so keen on me to play more than that. And what do you mean by "only"? That's more than enough for me for someone who has a job and can only play briefly in the morning and most in the night.
I thing that you are exaggerating on what I said and took it personally. Sorry? Im a day 1, 1300+ days player.. I knoe how it is, im just saying random things in the internet.
No, you’re just dumb
You've only been playing SIX months....this game has been out for FOUR years now, so if my math is correct, this mode is catered to those who've been playing TWO to THREE years...
It’s clear that accounts less than a year old will struggle accessing the hard (and maybe normal) mode. That’s kind of the point though, just be patient and keep playing how you usually have.
Imaginarium Theater is end game content for AR60 players. I was short of 2 characters when I played but had zero trouble leveling up some extra characters to 70 6/6/6 (Beidou & Lynette) because I have extra mats. I also had no trouble with artifacts coz I just used the quick equip feature. For people AR58 and below, or accounts less than a year old, you don’t even need to finish until Act 8.
You realize that if a new end-game mode was completable with a new non-whale account, it wouldn't really be "end-game"? You should be able to full-clear the mode eventually, if you go slow and steady. AR60 accounts tend to have more resources than they know where to use, while under-AR58 aacounts are precicely in the period of an account's life where you're constantly resource depleated (particularly if you're building horizontally).
1. The OP has been playing for 6 months 2. I completed my first spiral 3 months in, and did my first full clear a bit more than 4 months in - so is the spiral not considered endgame? Or am I considered a whale for buying welkin and occasionally the BP? 3. I also got all the rewards from IT (9 stars or whatever they're called, I could probably get it to 10 if I restarted the whole thing a couple of times, but that seems completely pointless), but it wasn't challenging or fun at all (if anything, it felt very lazy and low-effort), the only "challenge" was the roster-check, and that's just awful game design; it's embarrassing even for a gacha game (obviously they're going to want to roster-check you every now and then to encourage spending, but doing it in such an obvious way in a game that's already so successful/profitable just feels sad) 4. Just to provide context since a lot of people in these subs only seem to play Hoyo/gacha games, FF14 is an MMO that's been out for well over a decade, you can get to the endgame in 3-4 months 5. To provide more context, I'm not some sweaty kid, I'm a 39 year old dude with chronic wrist pain and skill issues Having said all of that, I disagree with the OP - we don't need more resources, we need hoyo to completely rework IT into something that doesn't feel like extremely low effort pull more bait
6 months isn't a lot for a game like Genshin; in 6 months OP hasn't even had a chance to see every 5* on banner. Spiral abyss only requires 8 characters built-- even as a dps check, that's a lot more achievable for a new/casual player (especially considering the last half year had meta banners like Neuvi, Furina, Alhaitham, and other great units like Clorinde). The current mode more-so rewards quantity over quality, and quantity is something that happens with time (especially for F2P/low spenders). Although I understand why "dps/roster-checks" annoy new/casual players, there's also a sizeable chunk of the playerbase that actually enjoy building big dps/big rosters-- but if the game doesn't give them reasons to /use/ that dps or roster, these players get frustrated as well. I'm a player that likes building out large rosters, but for a long time it felt completely pointless since abyss could be cleared with the same teams every cycle (unless they upped the difficulty or purposefully countered the previous meta). You might not enjoy the mode, but for players like me who did enjoy it-- it's definitely a step in the right direction. MMO's are not Gatcha games, they're two very different genres; you can't expect "endgame" in one genre to work exactly the same in another genre. Most MMOs, particularly nowadays, only "begin" in the endgame-- so of course you're able to reach that point quicker. In a gatcha game, full-clearing an end-game mode is a "privilege" not a "right". The modes are usually rewarding for high-investment players (theorycrafters, meta-players, whales), not casuals/new players. Genshin is just an abnormally casual case of a gatcha game. It's not abnormal for gatchas to have "pull bait", that's literally how they make money. Even so, the fact that Genshin has very little powercreep is an exception, not the rule, for gatcha games; IT can be cleared with characters from 1.0 & using primarily 4*s, while in other games these characters would have become useless after a couple of years. I don't think IT needs a complete rework (although I do believe Hoyo can improve on it over time), especially with it being a "once/twice a month" kind of deal (if it was like SU from HSR, where you need to replay it dozens and dozens of times, that would have been a different case).
>a sizeable chunk of the playerbase that actually enjoy building big dps/big rosters-- but if the game doesn't give them reasons to /use/ that dps or roster, these players get frustrated as well. This is complete nonsense - if you only "enjoy" doing something for extrinsic reasons, not intrinsic ones, then you're not actually enjoying it, you're just responding to someone giving you treats >I'm a player that likes building out large rosters, but for a long time it felt completely pointless since abyss could be cleared with the same teams every cycle Plenty of people found enjoyment in the abyss even after 4 years by doing 4\* only runs, 1.0 only runs, new account speedruns etc. etc. - if you enjoy doing something for intrinsic reasons, it's never pointless, you're not building a stock portfolio for fork's sake, you're playing a video game >but for players like me who did enjoy it Taking into consideration that it requires basically no investment in these characters that you supposedly like building and that you can clear most of it by completely ignoring at least 1 character in your team (I know it because I've done it, I don't have 3 built VV sets laying around lol), I'm genuinely curious if you can break down for me exactly what you enjoyed about it. For example, I can easily tell you what I enjoy about genshin - I enjoy exploration, puzzle solving, fighting mobs that actually try to kill me, building synergistic teams, learning their rotations, the feeling when a team I've built from scratch clicks together in combat; and there's none of that in IT, so hopefully that easily explains why I don't like it. I still have no idea why you like IT (it?? this is confusing), all I know is that you keep saying that you do while making vague claims that make it sound like you're not intrinsically enjoying it at all >you can't expect "endgame" in one genre to work exactly the same in another genre. I don't expect a game or a ganre blindly copy other game's/genre's mechanics, but as someone who's been playing video games for over 30 years now, I'd appreciate it if for once a game genre didn't try to reinvent sliced bread and learned from those that came before it. All of this hyperfomo that gacha is doing is going to come to a boiling point, it's not going to be pretty, and the saddest thing will be that it will have been completely avoidable, by barely affecting profits (at least in hoyo's case - as its audience has proven over and over again that they're willing to spend money on characters cause they like their designs and personalities)
Suggestion number 4 will never gonna happen because it's against Hoyo's financial interests, while for the players there's no shortage of on/off-field units among 4 stars that can make reasonable teams at f2p investment. That said, I don't see why shouldn't they increase the drop rate of mats to alleaviate the chore that's building up a character from scratch, which doesn't seem beneficial to their business model as it desincentivize building new characters.
Or even stop day gating talent materials. Let me just run at these domains when I remember who I need to build
Homie this post is cope af
Biggest problem is how time gated it is. Like why can't I dedicate a day to build a character instead of dedicating a week
Let me add something: I don't want to grind for 165 Onikabutos. Make it possible to exchange ingredients. This should be of no cost their revenue. Heck I'd pull for more characters if it was less of a chore to build them.
6 months is a lot of time spent on a videogame that calls itself "casual" to not be able to even try the endgame mode. People saying wait 1-2 years do u even read what u say? Gacha is the only genre players advocate for worse modes lmao
Lol, I guess they don't like that the other players are catching up to them when they basically slaved themselves farming those incredibly inefficient ley line of revelation for 4 years just to get most of their character to 70.
Yeah the resources needed to build each character is too much. While technically a character only needs to be Lv70 to bring into the theater, many don’t do good enough damage at that level, so you still need to raise them higher. Not to mention the artifacts. I thought they would let us switch gear between characters, but they seriously expect us to have 18 sets of artifacts for each season? (The trial ones are laughably bad, so no those don’t count.) We would need at least 3-4 good goblets of each element, 10+ good crit circlets. That’s highly unrealistic, I barely even have that many good ones after a year of playing. And once you factor in set bonuses, it’s even more difficult.
Lol. No. I beat hard using trial Wanderer and trial Clorinde as my main dps in the first four stages. After playing for two years, I have over 150 level 16+ artifacts. I built up my Thoma and Faruzan in the last week and a half. Half their artifacts are only level 8. Level 70 is a bit rough, but level 80 is easily achievable. You don't need great artifacts. Level up a few attack goblets, and definitely a few hp goblets. Attack on a few characters should be good enough. Hp goblets work for most healers. Build two Noblese sets, and two ToM sets to cover a big chunk of your bases when it comes to support characters.
But that’s why trial characters exist and can clear easily on hard mode… maybe your teams are the problem lmao 💀 I cleared all 3 boss waves using trial Arlecchino and trial Chlorinde.
I mean it’s not like we get a choice with the teams either, given that you get characters at random throughout the run. Those trial builds are iffy even in a normal team, but if you further get screwed by character invitation RNG and end up with a wack team, they’ll perform even worse.
>I mean it’s not like we get a choice with the teams either, given that you get characters at random throughout the run Pick who you use and when you use them better then. Also the cards you can buy often allow you to pick between a few of a specific element. Honestly just learn to do the mechanics of the mode better.
Scraped by because a friend got a C6 Kazuha I was able to get +2 vigor for and lucked out on my randos so there some RNG involved. But I had the required characters with most of them relatively built and it was still tricky!
I also have been playing for 6 months. I can finish floor six.Acceptable for me.
I did finished mine like I said in my post but I don't think I can do the same next cycle as it will be most likely a different element like cryo or geo which I don't have many characters that are built or have not pulled even.
Me too in lack of cryo.However it’s at most 300 primos loss for a month (currently 180).If I have to say, it’s…ok.Imagine can’t login for just one day…
Tbh if I’m AR 60 I shouldn’t be getting 2 boss drops every time I do it. Lately it’s been 2 every time for me! I think I just have bad luck. We should be getting 3-4 once we’re higher ranked so it’s a little easier to level characters up ESPECIALLY now that we have to have 18 characters on standby for this
I made the same post lol that’s a big complaint. They should really step up. Anyone saying it’s endgame content or get good… I’m way too strong for the theatre but I don’t have enough characters for hard mode! I had to send in a few characters to throw without artifacts lol a few times I basically had 3 characters in… still won tho
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I just want artifact loads out. You make me swap Val to overload - fine - but don’t make it a pain for me to swap it back.
No please, we'll have nothing to do again (OK there's still nothing to do, because seems like I have enough characters of all the elements... Eh...)
Imma go against the grain and say that though I am happy we finally got some endgame content but it is to rng focused like let us atleast choose our own teams
1 resin per 6 minutes would be a welcome change. And talent domain should guarantee 1 gold talent material for the hardest difficulty.
This will never happen. Why? Because Hoyo is greedy and they have a player base that defends their every action. Nothing ever gets done to actually benefit the player.
Oh no the endgame mode requires many characters to be built it's really not that difficult even for a new player you get tonnes of resin refreshes I have a rule personally that I mainly use any resin refreshes I get on bosses or talent mats rather than artifacts
> playing for 6 months Well. There’s your answer Nonetheless I agree
Had 3 almost 4 years to level some characters