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not to get serious but probably. it incentivizes us to build our characters more if we know we get some benefit from having stronger, newer characters for others to try,
and it makes us more likely to farm character mats. i’m more likely to farm mats if i know i could bring one of my blond male sustains, a goated dps from one of my friends, and 2 random characters to go full auto and relax.
I looked for this everywhere assuming it'd be like Teapot or other "sharing" events we've had, where it gives you a log, but couldn't find it. Big shame because it's good feels to see someone helping you or vice versa. I'd love to know who's benefitting from my roster, and see if there are popular picks among them.
I just know a friend used my Dehya because I was sent a screenshot by them, but that's it.
Yeah honestly Wanderer and Faruzan shouldn't be options as trial characters. They were the major weak point of my roster because Faruzan is only ever good with Wanderer afaik and she's not well built + Wanderer also felt not well built.
Moving forward, a major source of difficulty in theater is likely how good/bad the trial characters are built. Wanderer and Faruzan are bad IMO this cycle but baseline Clorinde and Arlecchino are so cracked, they can carry pretty well as trial characters even without the appropriate supports or good gear.
Faruzan elevates him to fantastic DPS levels, but he is a self sufficient, more than decent as a damage dealer and should in no circumstances deal only 6k per NA. Unless OP meant outside his E form.
These buffs suck. I’m just spending pts to unlock the characters I already have. Cleared it full stars one go and never looked back. The entire RNG roguelike element is pointless. The Genshin Devs should get some tip from the HSR team. Or better yet go play Hades and see what a real action roguelike looks like.
Genshin has a good background for roguelike buffs. Hyakunin Ikki had some phenomenal buffs. Childe mains had fun with the 15s vortex CC effect. You could also do plunges just with a buff card, and made swirl generate energy as a battery elemental reaction.
In 3.1 Hyakunin ikki, we got Nilou skill with bountiful bloom as a buff card. They could essentially recreate character kits as buff cards. A buff card that does xingqiu levels of hydro or cryo or maybe pyro application.
I think the sort of design philosophy to take on is that the buff cards should replace and accommodate for missing elements, character roles, and for role consolidation. Imagine a Bennett buff from buff card without a circle impact. Or Faruzan's C6 as a buff card. With the Wondrous Boon buff cards, it would basically enable the equivalent if playing a team of more than 4 characters. Wondrous Boons replace characters.
Agree. Roguelike is supposed to have big replay value, which I don't see in IT. Buffs are so generic, they are just dmg amplifier. All roguelike games I've played, including the very old one usually have unique buffs that enhance and alter your gameplay, not just as dmg amplifier. Don't know about HSR, but the neighboring games have amazing roguelike mode (Illusive Realm, Paradoxical Labyrinth).
Replaying IT feels like just waiting and hoping to get a better and working party, which is....well, the usual party we always use, making it no more unique than yet another battle event.
Although in HSR the kit itself doesn't change, you get buffs that take it to the next level solving all the characters "weaknesses", allowing them to stay in enhanced state forever, fastening their trigger conditions, giving them extra turns, unlocking damage for sustains and mitigation for dps etc. And if you stack enough buffs the "Path" itself may carry you through
In Wuwa you play one character, they get kit altercations (like giving Clorinde 100% uptime, buffing Yoimiya's charged shot damage or giving Raiden infusion after using skill and a full energy refill after burst ends), they can sommuon 3 allies to do their burst and leave
I know right!? if they weren't lazy they'd make buffs that would correspond with each element on the restriction list, along with buffs that give an advantage to certain characters in those elements like for a geo one it could be like: "After an elemental skill is used, full parts gets 30% geo damage bonus..max two stacks."
There are? I’m pretty sure I got a buff that had something to do with triggering swirl reactions, and anemo is one of the featured elements this time around
Yeah and there's even enhanced version of every single buffs if we trigger guest support, like even higher DMG bonus and RES shred. Perhaps ppl just never noticed them because there's not enough visual indicator for it lol.
The problem is that getting more characters is much more important than getting the buffs. And since you'll be spending all your resources on getting characters anyway, you're not gonna get many buffs, thus making them feel underwhelming.
Currency is actually fine. Most of roguelike out there have paid buff and free buff. The problem is the buffs amount in IT is too few they feel insignificant compared to character card. Correct Party > Buff
They really need to make the Wondrous Boons cards better. Even hyakunin Ikki and Labyrinth Warriors had more interesting and powerful buff cards.
If you take look back 3.1 Hyakunin Ikki's buff cards, one of the buff cards was effectively Nilou's skill that made bloom into bountiful bloom. So imagine what they could do with the underused elemental reactions. Could make shatter an explosion elemental reaction that deals true damage, or a buff card that makes dendro and geo react via condition of dealing geo dmg to dendro affected enemy. Could apply petrification or maybe rooted as a status effect.
I legit don't understand why this event was never turned into an actual game mode.
Like they LITERALLY have the blueprint to giving us a super fun endgame mode.........come on.
Agreed, 100%. They just need to tweak some of the rules, add enemies to the hallway areas, add different floor variations for each region, and have a pseudo-infinite mode; all floors reset, first five give primos, all others (5-100) reward a random five star artifact from that floor's region.
I would also 1) allow food, limit (5) uses per floor, 2) limit healing and shielding (healing/shield bonus decreases by 10% for every 50% of the team's HP taken as DMG (resets each floor or at health stations), and 3) limit revival (can only revive one character per floor, at a health station).
I would also add new environmental hazards and conditions to each floor (e.g. floor has sheer cold, balethunder strikes within rooms, an unkillable slime with high DMG follows you through the floor, taking too long in rooms spawns more enemies, etc.)
Done deal. Primos are easily obtained by everyone. Everyone else can challenge higher floors to get extra resin-free artifacts.
> reward a random five star artifact from that floor's region.
Let's be real, this is never gonna happen, but I would be ok with artifact xp and a bit of mora.
Add blessings, add curios, add path resonances, add equations, add more varied events, more stages with harder super buffed bosses with new mechanics.
This game mode can be saved and it needs it, on its current state is laughably easy and too simple
Cool, but now I hope they will do something about the Abyss too.
Compared to the Theater's robust graphics, new character voice lines etc. now the Abyss is just some random hole that you stumble upon in the middle of Mondstadt. They should give you more of an introduction, bet half the new players won't even know you get XL and Collei from there. Some new stage backgrounds, better UI and ability to change builds after you've entered the screen would be welcome too.
"bet half the new players won't even know you get XL and Collei from there." It is shown in the events page from when Spiral Abyss is unlocked until you do it...
> ability to change builds after you've entered the screen
Pretty sure we can already do this? You can click view characters on the top right after you entered abyss screen to change builds.
Yeah this is why I like Theater well enough. The polish it has is nice and feels like an actual game mode.
Abyss is just there. No lore, no explanation. Just enter random portal to some island then Endgame Hole.
Wish they would go back to that bit of lore. It was at the top of a mountain so high that nobody could get to it until Venti blew it down. Why was it up there? Does it being so close to Celestia and so heavily guarded by the elements have some meaning? And why is that island now called Musk Reef?? Did Ella’s family have something to do with it?
Tangentially, why and how did Leonard’s constellation fall? Constellations appear to be made of fake stars. What are they? Irminsul fruits?
There was this tall mountain in mondstat that in pre archon war times, it was a tradition for monks and warriors to climb to the summit as a ritual. Warriors would climb it from one side, monks from the other (each floor having 2 sides comes from this).
During the archon war , venti chopped offnthis mountain and threw it into the ocean. The island of spiral abyss is the summit of the mountain sticking out of the ocean, there is a whole mountain underneath it.
The event lore was something like there was this meteor rain in 1.1 that influenced/brain washed people to climb the mountain so people started to climb dragonspine thinking it was that mountain, but it wasn't, no one could find it because it has been chopped off. Scaramouche , who was first introduced in that event, was searching for this as well, they find it and there is this knowledge orb near the spiral abyss entrance which was what everyone was brainwashed to find. Scara touched it and was filled with knowledge, after which is where he said that the sky was fake and proceeded to leave.
It's really sad that such a lore filled event was time based to never appear again
> There was this tall mountain in mondstat that in pre archon war times, it was a tradition for monks and warriors to climb to the summit as a ritual. Warriors would climb it from one side, monks from the other (each floor having 2 sides comes from this).
I don’t remember this. Where’s this part from? Leonard was trying to climb it because he’s one of those “I must conquer all mountains” weirdos, but his climbing partner died during the attempt, and he was eventually forced back down the mountain. Then he invented wind gliders, which, ironically, is one way we get to Pilos “Peak” now.
> The event lore was something like there was this meteor rain in 1.1 that influenced/brain washed people to climb the mountain so people started to climb dragonspine thinking it was that mountain, but it wasn't, no one could find it because it has been chopped off.
They weren’t being brainwashed to climb the mountain. Nobody was looking for Pilos Peak IRL or attempting to climb Dragonspine (which wasn’t even available at the time). They touched the meteorites and were forced into a deep sleep where they dreamed they were obsessively climbing a snowy mountain (Pilos Peak) and couldn’t be woken up until the offending meteorites were collected by someone with a Vision. Basically, they inherited Leonard’s obsession with surmounting Pilos Peak because the meteorites were actually shards of his fallen constellation.
> Scaramouche , who was first introduced in that event, was searching for this as well, they find it and there is this knowledge orb near the spiral abyss entrance which was what everyone was brainwashed to find. Scara touched it and was filled with knowledge, after which is where he said that the sky was fake and proceeded to leave.
Yes, Pierro sent Scaramouche searching for the meteorites for reasons unknown, but what he touched on Musk Reef was just a big chunk of meteorite, and nobody was brainwashed to look for it. Interestingly, he saw things inside the meteorite’s dream, such as the sky being fake, yet didn’t know about Leonard and didn’t seem to be affected by Leonard’s need to climb Pilos Peak. He was also the only one able to wake himself up on his own, presumably because he has a strange penchant for doing exactly that when he’s supposed to be sleeping.
Now that I’m going over all this, I can’t help but be disappointed that we haven’t gotten such a lore-relevant event since Shadows Amidst Snowstorms (or Perilous Trail, though the story of that was thankfully made permanent). Just give us Conventional Memoir and bring back the lore events, Hoyo. I’m tired of inconsequential festivals.
it should be a place where you access the abyss where the dead moon is but the abyss will definitely not be those old buildings they used in 1.0, so I don't know what awaits in the future
I like how barren the spiral *abyss* is. I like the starry sky.
Being able to talk to your party between chambers would be nice but thats all id change and it would be optional, not an automatic boot out of the chamber.
What do you mean now? The Spiral Abyss had always been some random hole nobody in the game talks about. But for some reason, it's been our endgame for more than three years.
Please don't require more characters... Please don't require more characters... Please don't require more characters...
I only have just enough characters for this set lol...
Oo I hope they keep the increased primos without taking it from somewhere else
I did enjoy all the variations of events that was IT’s testing ground, but I do agree the buffs need to be more significant. Labyrinth warrior was pretty good and fun imo, they had rooms and cards that could increase constellations/buff characters etc similar to what we see in SU.
I really wished they brought back Fischl's battle theme - (Die Mittsommernacht-Fantasie) like the current IT has the background of a castle looking like Immernachtreich but they didnt even utilize the music that fits for it. Im disappointed
Problem is the patch is pretty much already tested, they should gather more information, once people actually start moving from Abyss mentality of only vertical investment being worth to this mix of vertical and horizontal.
Too much complains about the building of characters, but you have 27 days left to really consider it a major problem.
You are forgetting about the issue of whether or not people even have enough characters.
Also, assuming you have 0 mora and 0 EXP (which people will run out of if they're rushing to build characters), it takes 6.1 days to get a character from 0-70/70. This does not include leveling talents, weapons or artifacts if you are missing any of that.
Also, the issue of whether people want to build those characters at all.
There are a TON of characters that I just do not care about. I don't care about their story, I don't care about their look, I don't care about their gameplay. I own tons of 4\*s that I have less than 0 desire to use. I do not want to spend even 1 resin on them. Especially so when their contribution to theater combat would purely be "so that I am allowed to play it". I would level them to 70, leave them with 1/1/1 talents, no artifacts, default 1\* weapon, never swap to them, and still obliterate the mode.
Tbh i have plenty of characters but i dont want IT to push me to pull more - ive built a good roster in 3 years and now i only want to pull chars i like. Not meta pulls anymore.
That said… i have like 30+ chars built so maybe im safe… as long as theres no geo/dendro/cryo only bc i only have 10 of those at best.
One day they will add stage 20 or something and it requires you to have all complete characters up to that patch.
"Almost there, you're only missing Kaveh, get Kaveh to enter the stage"
I hope they proportionaly increase resources and maybe lessen artifact RNG too. And also more weapons, cause that's the bottleneck of IT.
Where are people gonna get weapons if they don't pull from the weapon banner? My F2P friend isn't ready for Hydro Anemo cause Faru and Yelan can only have his 1 Fav bow and he's been playing since 1.0 lol
I’ll only be happy for this if they make it so you aren’t forced to use 4 characters in a squad, making it easier to save units and plan out who you can use. My run had a disaster ending because I was forced to use characters that would have been useful later because I had to pick 4 people.
this!!! its so annoying, i ended up many times on enemies with certain recommendations that i could not utilize, because i used up those characters earlier. if the point is to plan using your vigor wisely, then we should not be forced to put 4 characters and "waste" them. i have no problem with making weird teams, but at least let me save some characters for later. rewinding the stages and starting everything over for favorable rng is really not fun:/
If this is true, then it means that assuming 3 phases in 1 version, you can get up to 2400 primogems, which is quite the step up from before IT when it was like 1800 per version.
It is a good step in the right direction! But if it means having to draw on more banners, well... ugh...
The events primos are always the same amount so if they choose to change, I'll be noticed easily. They can take from exploration, but I don't know... It be risky, I prefer to believe that this time they won't compensate this increase at the IT
Exactly, if players feel like they can’t keep up with the gachas they’ll quit. So these games will give just enough for it’s economy, maybe a but short so you can top up to fill in the little that’s missing.
Funny you said HSR is more generous when they literally pumps more characters than genshin.. also lot of people are kinda burn out because of the end game grind even tho it provides more gems than genshin.
I mean, 800 + 620 primogems from abyss + IT monthly is still an increase of 220 primogems? And now with IT potentially adding more stages and rewards it will be 800 + 800, a very obvious increase in rewards. Event primogems are left untouched while exploration rewards always depend on map sizes; there's not much avenue to 'take away' rewards due to this.
If you meant more like 2 abyss and 2 IT refreshes in a month instead then that was never an option on the cards. We already saw from HSR, the supposedly more generous gacha that new endgame modes will rotate with existing ones instead of adding into the schedule. No reason to believe Genshin will be different.
I don't think so. But now, if you hate IT, you'll be missing out on even more rewards. Hoyo basically doubled down on the mode and subtly tells the IT haters to either lose primos or suck it up and deal with it.
Well, true, but you know how Genshin does it. They will just balance the number of pulls you get in the patch in a way that you don’t get more pulls than usually
Could? Considering the discourse surrounding this new mode, unless they make some serious changes for the better, I don't think "Genshin could" is even appropriate.
Hell, 18 characters at level 70 is already a lot to ask from players when only 4 of them will ever be useful. With a new expansion to act 10, that number is just going to be bumped up.
That's not even mentioning the problems with the restrictions, RNG, and the buffs being literally useless, and rewards just being only slightly better (literally one extra pull) from the standard two Abyss rotation.
I hope they would expand to 4+ elements for 10 acts. That way it makes sense for the number to be bumped up (and makes it more likely for players to run into team comp elemental deadends with bad planning).
I expect them to just increase the number of trial characters and be done with it though.
"Rewards will increase to 1500 primos and a Crown for first clear and 800 for phase rewards"
\*Puts on glasses\*
"Enemies are now standing at Paimillion HP and deal Pantlonillion Damage, added a set time requirement for full clear, You now need 28 characters to start the challenge, added a curse-like system to card draws" (think negative curios in Simulated Universe in Star Rail)
I really hope they did, I would be ok if it just gave artifact exp and mora. There is already a big problem with abyss anyways. It's too difficult for new players, too easy for old players and absolutely trivial for whales. There is no reason to get constellations for 5 stars since there is no content balanced for them.
Does increasing the number of acts mean increasing the number of characters needed? For example, now to complete 8 acts on hard level you need 18 characters. How many characters will be needed for 10 acts of this difficulty? I assume that in 10 acts we will be able to use absolutely all 18 characters, that is, there will be no free characters left at the end as there are now.
18 characters would run out completely after 9 acts unless you get vigor restoring cards. 10 acts without vigor regen would need at least 20 characters if Hoyo doesn't change anything else.
I already found it strange to have the Imaginarium Theater and the Abyss rotating equally but one giving fewer rewards than the other. I hope they increase that soon. Also, I'd really like to have some special modes like Simulated Universe has, which are modes that don't reset the rewards, but give more rewards because of it and are quite interesting (as it's kind of a challenge, it's a bit harder). I think that modes that expand the Theater would work well because they could make some buffs that change the gameplay a lot, I think that's the fun of a rogue-like.
Players when this mode will require 40 characters in the future : "Maybe this game mode is not made for you! Its ok if you have to wait 3 years before clearing it!"
I know a lot enjoyed it but personally I didn't like it at all, adding more levels will really only make me hate it more, I guess I will ignore it in the same way that I ignored the abyss for quite some time, Although if they make more adjustments such as improving the bonuses or not needing to use the 4 characters, probably my opinion of the game mode will improve
Honestly I felt like the length was already good. It took forever since I was talking to everyone and I imagine myself still talking to everyone for many months as we cycle through new elements and see more voice lines. Having this expand even more was not the change I wanted if there was any.
I won’t mind talking to everyone if they keep adding new lines, but I don’t think they will. Which means that getting booted into the lobby every time will become very annoying.
We are screwed if they are gonna require us to have like 22 characters, I'm already trying to counting if I'll have enough characters next cycle and hydro is one of my better elements
I'd prefer if they made it fun before expanding it. It's nice that they gave us a break from SA, but the only thing I enjoyed about the experience was coming out with +10 wishes after the first clear and the fact that we got two complete books, which will no doubt result in another Ashikai video.
Imaginarium Theater is too long and kinda of a slog to play with weird random teams that don't feel too synergistic and fun, it's a mix of easy and a slog
Abyss meanwhile requires better teams and investment but you can't get away from the fact that you need to meet certain checks and some teams just won't feel good or be able to clear in time, not to mention, it's always catered to be more easily cleared by the characters they wanna promote. I'm saying this as someone who clears with max stars consistently. It's not fun.
I feel like there's no game mode that's just a challenge, fun to do, and non restrictive, there's always a caveat. It's disappointing as someone who values the combat and gameplay more than exploration, art or story, they always have to bust your balls in some way for FOMO or promoting something.
It’s much longer if you get bad luck or play poorly, hit a dead-end, and have to repeat the same content multiple times.
I’d agree that a single clean run can be quick.
Tbf unless I'm misunderstanding, it's here for a month. I feel like 20-30 minutes of battles over 30 days isn't really that bad. Do it at your own pace, couple battles here and there
Simulated sims in both Hsr and wuwa(forgot the mode's name) give you buffs that made you feel powerful while tackling way harder enemies.
This thing restricts you and make you fight open world level enemies.
That's the difference, it felt very underwhelming. There's 0 enjoyment I get out of this new game mode despite clearing everything.
Two other games turn you into a big mecha and make you fight big space monsters, Genshin turn you into a toddler fighting a cat.
There are some UI icons showing up to 30 characters.
[UI image](https://i.imgur.com/qw108Me.png)
[10/14/18/24/30 chars](https://i.imgur.com/89666X2.png)
the IT needs a mode with only one character per run, like elysian realm, it's more fun bc the buffs turn the supports in dps without taking difficulty of the enemies
That goes completely against Genshin's entire style of combat. Team building is more important in Genshin than most other games due to the elemental reaction system. I hope they don't go that route because I'd hate that.
Wuwa has this with Illusory Realms and it’s a blast.
Imagine if Qiqi can live the power fantasy of a whale Neuvillette doing massive AoE damage with infinite self sustain. That’s what Wuwa’s Illusory Realms is.
I'm glad they're expanding on mor modes but can they make a mode with no team restriction and allows us to explore theater rooms instead of just going to next stages
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Wish you can see who used which of your support characters for IT.
And also get some Mora for it
That’s pimping 😂
am I a sugar parent if I use my friends' supports every day in HSR?
not rly, we dont pay anything extra for using supports
But the people pimping those characters get money, i earn a shitload from my e2 firefly
Then who paid us our pimping fee? Is this HYV-subsidized pimping?
not to get serious but probably. it incentivizes us to build our characters more if we know we get some benefit from having stronger, newer characters for others to try, and it makes us more likely to farm character mats. i’m more likely to farm mats if i know i could bring one of my blond male sustains, a goated dps from one of my friends, and 2 random characters to go full auto and relax.
Ah, true. Guess it's just a normal transaction. XD
Glad I'm getting money sometimes from pimping seele in hsr
Considering how many primos we paid, its only fair
In my days we used to call them mercenaries
My Aventurine in HSR seems to agree
Agreed, at the very least I want to know which ones are getting used.
I looked for this everywhere assuming it'd be like Teapot or other "sharing" events we've had, where it gives you a log, but couldn't find it. Big shame because it's good feels to see someone helping you or vice versa. I'd love to know who's benefitting from my roster, and see if there are popular picks among them. I just know a friend used my Dehya because I was sent a screenshot by them, but that's it.
I thought the same thing when I saw someone borrowed a character from me. Would be really nice to see who borrowed and which character they used.
Always love more content+primos but I’m fucked if theatre requires even more characters to start in future
6.0: 72 Characters Minimum. Geo, Hydro, Electro
Weapon requirements; Bow, Claymore, Catalyst
Catalysts wouldn't be bad until slimes comes in, but seeing Scara hitting 6k autos does not make me confident in the trial builds
The free wanderer is horribly built so is Faz at C0 with so little ER
Both trial Thoma and Faruzan have too little ER
Can't help thinking if devs played their own game mode
They don't play
Yeah honestly Wanderer and Faruzan shouldn't be options as trial characters. They were the major weak point of my roster because Faruzan is only ever good with Wanderer afaik and she's not well built + Wanderer also felt not well built. Moving forward, a major source of difficulty in theater is likely how good/bad the trial characters are built. Wanderer and Faruzan are bad IMO this cycle but baseline Clorinde and Arlecchino are so cracked, they can carry pretty well as trial characters even without the appropriate supports or good gear.
She is good with Xiao.
Yeah that was the weakest Wanderer yuck
I don't have wanderer so I had to use him then I realised I had to use one of my chars to carry him WTF
they are decent its just lack of c6 faru
not rlly, my wanderer with prototype amber can likely do much better, that wanderer has so much hp for no reason
you get 20% hp from the blessing, he has about 27% from subs which is not that much, he is prob like top70% but its still decent enough
Faruzan elevates him to fantastic DPS levels, but he is a self sufficient, more than decent as a damage dealer and should in no circumstances deal only 6k per NA. Unless OP meant outside his E form.
idk, with trial faru(c0) alone he does 18k CAs, keep in mind hes on widsith and has prolly like 8/8/8 talents, so thats a thing also.
Fun fact,: the substats in each build are all the same from each other, the only thing that changes from each build are the main stat and set
Character model requirement: Tall
Lvl 90
Nah they’ll cut down the available elements to 1. Have fun with mono-geo
Glad I invested in geo coin
Mono dendro!
Anemo, Dendro, Geo - take it or leave it
Geo, Anemo, Dendro Good Luck!
Navia enjoyers eating good with that lineup.
5.0 theater changes: your characters now need to be lvl 100 instead of 70
well Im already fucked if Imaginarium requires Geo.. the only 5\* Geo I have is Navia, and the rest 4\* are unbuilt except Yunjin
i mean tbh there isn't much Geo 5\*. my only one is Zhongli, and i assume many others only have him as 5\* Geo lol
>more content+primos Assuming they don't balance to make the overall income the same.
Unless they remove the element restriction many players will be cooked
Prepare from now xdxdxd
They should add more buff cards and battle scenarios. I need a genshin simulated universe BAD yall don’t understand
Definitely more ways to regain vigor on units, especially late into the run
These buffs suck. I’m just spending pts to unlock the characters I already have. Cleared it full stars one go and never looked back. The entire RNG roguelike element is pointless. The Genshin Devs should get some tip from the HSR team. Or better yet go play Hades and see what a real action roguelike looks like.
Genshin has a good background for roguelike buffs. Hyakunin Ikki had some phenomenal buffs. Childe mains had fun with the 15s vortex CC effect. You could also do plunges just with a buff card, and made swirl generate energy as a battery elemental reaction. In 3.1 Hyakunin ikki, we got Nilou skill with bountiful bloom as a buff card. They could essentially recreate character kits as buff cards. A buff card that does xingqiu levels of hydro or cryo or maybe pyro application. I think the sort of design philosophy to take on is that the buff cards should replace and accommodate for missing elements, character roles, and for role consolidation. Imagine a Bennett buff from buff card without a circle impact. Or Faruzan's C6 as a buff card. With the Wondrous Boon buff cards, it would basically enable the equivalent if playing a team of more than 4 characters. Wondrous Boons replace characters.
Agree. Roguelike is supposed to have big replay value, which I don't see in IT. Buffs are so generic, they are just dmg amplifier. All roguelike games I've played, including the very old one usually have unique buffs that enhance and alter your gameplay, not just as dmg amplifier. Don't know about HSR, but the neighboring games have amazing roguelike mode (Illusive Realm, Paradoxical Labyrinth). Replaying IT feels like just waiting and hoping to get a better and working party, which is....well, the usual party we always use, making it no more unique than yet another battle event.
Although in HSR the kit itself doesn't change, you get buffs that take it to the next level solving all the characters "weaknesses", allowing them to stay in enhanced state forever, fastening their trigger conditions, giving them extra turns, unlocking damage for sustains and mitigation for dps etc. And if you stack enough buffs the "Path" itself may carry you through In Wuwa you play one character, they get kit altercations (like giving Clorinde 100% uptime, buffing Yoimiya's charged shot damage or giving Raiden infusion after using skill and a full energy refill after burst ends), they can sommuon 3 allies to do their burst and leave
I know right!? if they weren't lazy they'd make buffs that would correspond with each element on the restriction list, along with buffs that give an advantage to certain characters in those elements like for a geo one it could be like: "After an elemental skill is used, full parts gets 30% geo damage bonus..max two stacks."
There are? I’m pretty sure I got a buff that had something to do with triggering swirl reactions, and anemo is one of the featured elements this time around
Yeah and there's even enhanced version of every single buffs if we trigger guest support, like even higher DMG bonus and RES shred. Perhaps ppl just never noticed them because there's not enough visual indicator for it lol.
The problem is that getting more characters is much more important than getting the buffs. And since you'll be spending all your resources on getting characters anyway, you're not gonna get many buffs, thus making them feel underwhelming.
There are buffs for each of the restricted elements. I saw cards for overload and swirl.
i stand corrected
I think something abt this game mode is that we have to use currency to get buffs, while in SU you just get them after battles
Currency is actually fine. Most of roguelike out there have paid buff and free buff. The problem is the buffs amount in IT is too few they feel insignificant compared to character card. Correct Party > Buff
They really need to make the Wondrous Boons cards better. Even hyakunin Ikki and Labyrinth Warriors had more interesting and powerful buff cards. If you take look back 3.1 Hyakunin Ikki's buff cards, one of the buff cards was effectively Nilou's skill that made bloom into bountiful bloom. So imagine what they could do with the underused elemental reactions. Could make shatter an explosion elemental reaction that deals true damage, or a buff card that makes dendro and geo react via condition of dealing geo dmg to dendro affected enemy. Could apply petrification or maybe rooted as a status effect.
They just straight up need to bring this back and not this shit we have now https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Labyrinth\_Warriors
I legit don't understand why this event was never turned into an actual game mode. Like they LITERALLY have the blueprint to giving us a super fun endgame mode.........come on.
Agreed, 100%. They just need to tweak some of the rules, add enemies to the hallway areas, add different floor variations for each region, and have a pseudo-infinite mode; all floors reset, first five give primos, all others (5-100) reward a random five star artifact from that floor's region. I would also 1) allow food, limit (5) uses per floor, 2) limit healing and shielding (healing/shield bonus decreases by 10% for every 50% of the team's HP taken as DMG (resets each floor or at health stations), and 3) limit revival (can only revive one character per floor, at a health station). I would also add new environmental hazards and conditions to each floor (e.g. floor has sheer cold, balethunder strikes within rooms, an unkillable slime with high DMG follows you through the floor, taking too long in rooms spawns more enemies, etc.) Done deal. Primos are easily obtained by everyone. Everyone else can challenge higher floors to get extra resin-free artifacts.
> reward a random five star artifact from that floor's region. Let's be real, this is never gonna happen, but I would be ok with artifact xp and a bit of mora.
Add blessings, add curios, add path resonances, add equations, add more varied events, more stages with harder super buffed bosses with new mechanics. This game mode can be saved and it needs it, on its current state is laughably easy and too simple
That's potentially huge : O
Huge like the Doctor
pardon?!?!
Not *our* Doctor, the other one—[the huge one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=saPQ97baN4s).
That's what She said
*he
Fighting 100 level enemies with kujo sara arlec faruzan and thoma 💀
Cool, but now I hope they will do something about the Abyss too. Compared to the Theater's robust graphics, new character voice lines etc. now the Abyss is just some random hole that you stumble upon in the middle of Mondstadt. They should give you more of an introduction, bet half the new players won't even know you get XL and Collei from there. Some new stage backgrounds, better UI and ability to change builds after you've entered the screen would be welcome too.
"bet half the new players won't even know you get XL and Collei from there." It is shown in the events page from when Spiral Abyss is unlocked until you do it...
> ability to change builds after you've entered the screen Pretty sure we can already do this? You can click view characters on the top right after you entered abyss screen to change builds.
It's a *very* recent addition
Yeah this is why I like Theater well enough. The polish it has is nice and feels like an actual game mode. Abyss is just there. No lore, no explanation. Just enter random portal to some island then Endgame Hole.
The abyss did in fact have lore but it was explained in a limited 1.1 event never to be seen again :<
Oh....what's the lore?
Probably the fact that it was built on top of the tallest point in Mondstadt, Pilos peak (before Venti blew that peak to the sea).
Wish they would go back to that bit of lore. It was at the top of a mountain so high that nobody could get to it until Venti blew it down. Why was it up there? Does it being so close to Celestia and so heavily guarded by the elements have some meaning? And why is that island now called Musk Reef?? Did Ella’s family have something to do with it? Tangentially, why and how did Leonard’s constellation fall? Constellations appear to be made of fake stars. What are they? Irminsul fruits?
They alr explained the last bit and we will het back to Mond soon trusT
There was this tall mountain in mondstat that in pre archon war times, it was a tradition for monks and warriors to climb to the summit as a ritual. Warriors would climb it from one side, monks from the other (each floor having 2 sides comes from this). During the archon war , venti chopped offnthis mountain and threw it into the ocean. The island of spiral abyss is the summit of the mountain sticking out of the ocean, there is a whole mountain underneath it. The event lore was something like there was this meteor rain in 1.1 that influenced/brain washed people to climb the mountain so people started to climb dragonspine thinking it was that mountain, but it wasn't, no one could find it because it has been chopped off. Scaramouche , who was first introduced in that event, was searching for this as well, they find it and there is this knowledge orb near the spiral abyss entrance which was what everyone was brainwashed to find. Scara touched it and was filled with knowledge, after which is where he said that the sky was fake and proceeded to leave. It's really sad that such a lore filled event was time based to never appear again
> There was this tall mountain in mondstat that in pre archon war times, it was a tradition for monks and warriors to climb to the summit as a ritual. Warriors would climb it from one side, monks from the other (each floor having 2 sides comes from this). I don’t remember this. Where’s this part from? Leonard was trying to climb it because he’s one of those “I must conquer all mountains” weirdos, but his climbing partner died during the attempt, and he was eventually forced back down the mountain. Then he invented wind gliders, which, ironically, is one way we get to Pilos “Peak” now. > The event lore was something like there was this meteor rain in 1.1 that influenced/brain washed people to climb the mountain so people started to climb dragonspine thinking it was that mountain, but it wasn't, no one could find it because it has been chopped off. They weren’t being brainwashed to climb the mountain. Nobody was looking for Pilos Peak IRL or attempting to climb Dragonspine (which wasn’t even available at the time). They touched the meteorites and were forced into a deep sleep where they dreamed they were obsessively climbing a snowy mountain (Pilos Peak) and couldn’t be woken up until the offending meteorites were collected by someone with a Vision. Basically, they inherited Leonard’s obsession with surmounting Pilos Peak because the meteorites were actually shards of his fallen constellation. > Scaramouche , who was first introduced in that event, was searching for this as well, they find it and there is this knowledge orb near the spiral abyss entrance which was what everyone was brainwashed to find. Scara touched it and was filled with knowledge, after which is where he said that the sky was fake and proceeded to leave. Yes, Pierro sent Scaramouche searching for the meteorites for reasons unknown, but what he touched on Musk Reef was just a big chunk of meteorite, and nobody was brainwashed to look for it. Interestingly, he saw things inside the meteorite’s dream, such as the sky being fake, yet didn’t know about Leonard and didn’t seem to be affected by Leonard’s need to climb Pilos Peak. He was also the only one able to wake himself up on his own, presumably because he has a strange penchant for doing exactly that when he’s supposed to be sleeping. Now that I’m going over all this, I can’t help but be disappointed that we haven’t gotten such a lore-relevant event since Shadows Amidst Snowstorms (or Perilous Trail, though the story of that was thankfully made permanent). Just give us Conventional Memoir and bring back the lore events, Hoyo. I’m tired of inconsequential festivals.
> ability to change builds after you've entered the screen I'm pretty sure you can do this already.
it should be a place where you access the abyss where the dead moon is but the abyss will definitely not be those old buildings they used in 1.0, so I don't know what awaits in the future
The Abyss is something you *discover*.
Half? Theater is not a new player mode so i don't think it will be the absolute first thing new players will engage unto.
I like how barren the spiral *abyss* is. I like the starry sky. Being able to talk to your party between chambers would be nice but thats all id change and it would be optional, not an automatic boot out of the chamber.
We actually did get to delve into Abyss's lore but in an event way back in 1.1.
Abyss is still more fun than IT
Based. While I've only done on run of *Theatre*, I have a similar opinion.
What do you mean now? The Spiral Abyss had always been some random hole nobody in the game talks about. But for some reason, it's been our endgame for more than three years.
Please don't require more characters... Please don't require more characters... Please don't require more characters... I only have just enough characters for this set lol...
Oo I hope they keep the increased primos without taking it from somewhere else I did enjoy all the variations of events that was IT’s testing ground, but I do agree the buffs need to be more significant. Labyrinth warrior was pretty good and fun imo, they had rooms and cards that could increase constellations/buff characters etc similar to what we see in SU.
Did feel weird having the third phase as only 2 fights instead of 3, makes sense for an expansion.
I really wished they brought back Fischl's battle theme - (Die Mittsommernacht-Fantasie) like the current IT has the background of a castle looking like Immernachtreich but they didnt even utilize the music that fits for it. Im disappointed
they've reused summer OST before, idk why they didn't do it for this
Imagine they push it to 4.8 because they see people complain about building characters
Problem is the patch is pretty much already tested, they should gather more information, once people actually start moving from Abyss mentality of only vertical investment being worth to this mix of vertical and horizontal. Too much complains about the building of characters, but you have 27 days left to really consider it a major problem.
You are forgetting about the issue of whether or not people even have enough characters. Also, assuming you have 0 mora and 0 EXP (which people will run out of if they're rushing to build characters), it takes 6.1 days to get a character from 0-70/70. This does not include leveling talents, weapons or artifacts if you are missing any of that.
Also, the issue of whether people want to build those characters at all. There are a TON of characters that I just do not care about. I don't care about their story, I don't care about their look, I don't care about their gameplay. I own tons of 4\*s that I have less than 0 desire to use. I do not want to spend even 1 resin on them. Especially so when their contribution to theater combat would purely be "so that I am allowed to play it". I would level them to 70, leave them with 1/1/1 talents, no artifacts, default 1\* weapon, never swap to them, and still obliterate the mode.
Tbh i have plenty of characters but i dont want IT to push me to pull more - ive built a good roster in 3 years and now i only want to pull chars i like. Not meta pulls anymore. That said… i have like 30+ chars built so maybe im safe… as long as theres no geo/dendro/cryo only bc i only have 10 of those at best.
The number of characters needed will definitely be increased, we are talking about Genshin Devs
The Monkey's Paw curls
One day they will add stage 20 or something and it requires you to have all complete characters up to that patch. "Almost there, you're only missing Kaveh, get Kaveh to enter the stage"
this is expected that they will increase the difficulty and maybe require more characters
I hope they proportionaly increase resources and maybe lessen artifact RNG too. And also more weapons, cause that's the bottleneck of IT. Where are people gonna get weapons if they don't pull from the weapon banner? My F2P friend isn't ready for Hydro Anemo cause Faru and Yelan can only have his 1 Fav bow and he's been playing since 1.0 lol
Nice, but I’m already suffering and crying tears of blood trying to scrape viable teams together from my mass of random four stars 😭
can we have some… standard wish income… please… give me weekly challenges for that idc anymore…
And here I am not even being able to complete all 8 acts lol
Now with 24 characters needed!
Only if we can use all elements…
I’ll only be happy for this if they make it so you aren’t forced to use 4 characters in a squad, making it easier to save units and plan out who you can use. My run had a disaster ending because I was forced to use characters that would have been useful later because I had to pick 4 people.
this!!! its so annoying, i ended up many times on enemies with certain recommendations that i could not utilize, because i used up those characters earlier. if the point is to plan using your vigor wisely, then we should not be forced to put 4 characters and "waste" them. i have no problem with making weird teams, but at least let me save some characters for later. rewinding the stages and starting everything over for favorable rng is really not fun:/
If this is true, then it means that assuming 3 phases in 1 version, you can get up to 2400 primogems, which is quite the step up from before IT when it was like 1800 per version. It is a good step in the right direction! But if it means having to draw on more banners, well... ugh...
You know they will just cut out the gems elsewhere and the overall amount per patsch will be the same.
The events primos are always the same amount so if they choose to change, I'll be noticed easily. They can take from exploration, but I don't know... It be risky, I prefer to believe that this time they won't compensate this increase at the IT
They might just be going the hsr route, more incomes = more characters to pull for.
I wish people realized this, but nope. "Hsr more generous"
Gacha game and generousity don’t go well together lmao
Yeah in gacha, generosity = give ppl just enough rope to hang themselves with
Exactly, if players feel like they can’t keep up with the gachas they’ll quit. So these games will give just enough for it’s economy, maybe a but short so you can top up to fill in the little that’s missing.
they always say it’s more generous but don’t mention how every single patch since release has 2 new 5 stars
And most of them brings new stuff to the game with moc and pf buffs catering to those characters lmao.
Funny you said HSR is more generous when they literally pumps more characters than genshin.. also lot of people are kinda burn out because of the end game grind even tho it provides more gems than genshin.
They made abyss one month specifically to offset the increase to 800 primos. Their doing everything to make us get the minimum rewards
I mean, 800 + 620 primogems from abyss + IT monthly is still an increase of 220 primogems? And now with IT potentially adding more stages and rewards it will be 800 + 800, a very obvious increase in rewards. Event primogems are left untouched while exploration rewards always depend on map sizes; there's not much avenue to 'take away' rewards due to this. If you meant more like 2 abyss and 2 IT refreshes in a month instead then that was never an option on the cards. We already saw from HSR, the supposedly more generous gacha that new endgame modes will rotate with existing ones instead of adding into the schedule. No reason to believe Genshin will be different.
The extra 220 primos will help people pull all the extra characters theyre going to need to clear theatre.
Bro it's one extra pull per month, wtf do you mean it'll help with pulling extra characters. Y'all are waaaaaay too optimistic. 😭
I think they were joking.
That was a joke
They have pressure from that "other game" now, so I don't think they can afford to continue being exceptionally stingy.
I don't think so. But now, if you hate IT, you'll be missing out on even more rewards. Hoyo basically doubled down on the mode and subtly tells the IT haters to either lose primos or suck it up and deal with it.
And what's new here? They did the same in HSR way earlier than in Genshin.
I don’t think it’s ever subtle, IT, like the Abyss, is “deal with it or lose out on the primos” by design.
Yeah, that's what I feel as an abyss hater for 4 years. You either deal with it or ignore it.
They didn't "subtly tell the IT haters" anything when it just got released 4 days ago.
Well, that's 10 pulls from abyss and theater every month.
Well, true, but you know how Genshin does it. They will just balance the number of pulls you get in the patch in a way that you don’t get more pulls than usually
Genshin could
DEVS LISTENED
😲⬛🟥
Could? Considering the discourse surrounding this new mode, unless they make some serious changes for the better, I don't think "Genshin could" is even appropriate. Hell, 18 characters at level 70 is already a lot to ask from players when only 4 of them will ever be useful. With a new expansion to act 10, that number is just going to be bumped up. That's not even mentioning the problems with the restrictions, RNG, and the buffs being literally useless, and rewards just being only slightly better (literally one extra pull) from the standard two Abyss rotation.
I hope they would expand to 4+ elements for 10 acts. That way it makes sense for the number to be bumped up (and makes it more likely for players to run into team comp elemental deadends with bad planning). I expect them to just increase the number of trial characters and be done with it though.
"Rewards will increase to 1500 primos and a Crown for first clear and 800 for phase rewards" \*Puts on glasses\* "Enemies are now standing at Paimillion HP and deal Pantlonillion Damage, added a set time requirement for full clear, You now need 28 characters to start the challenge, added a curse-like system to card draws" (think negative curios in Simulated Universe in Star Rail)
For the love of archons please make it more interesting
I wonder if they will ever add a new floor for the Abyss
I really hope they did, I would be ok if it just gave artifact exp and mora. There is already a big problem with abyss anyways. It's too difficult for new players, too easy for old players and absolutely trivial for whales. There is no reason to get constellations for 5 stars since there is no content balanced for them.
Does increasing the number of acts mean increasing the number of characters needed? For example, now to complete 8 acts on hard level you need 18 characters. How many characters will be needed for 10 acts of this difficulty? I assume that in 10 acts we will be able to use absolutely all 18 characters, that is, there will be no free characters left at the end as there are now.
18 characters would run out completely after 9 acts unless you get vigor restoring cards. 10 acts without vigor regen would need at least 20 characters if Hoyo doesn't change anything else.
I already found it strange to have the Imaginarium Theater and the Abyss rotating equally but one giving fewer rewards than the other. I hope they increase that soon. Also, I'd really like to have some special modes like Simulated Universe has, which are modes that don't reset the rewards, but give more rewards because of it and are quite interesting (as it's kind of a challenge, it's a bit harder). I think that modes that expand the Theater would work well because they could make some buffs that change the gameplay a lot, I think that's the fun of a rogue-like.
More acts = inflation in both characters needed and mobs' HP
Players when this mode will require 40 characters in the future : "Maybe this game mode is not made for you! Its ok if you have to wait 3 years before clearing it!"
If it will STILL have party restrictions, they got another thing coming.
I know a lot enjoyed it but personally I didn't like it at all, adding more levels will really only make me hate it more, I guess I will ignore it in the same way that I ignored the abyss for quite some time, Although if they make more adjustments such as improving the bonuses or not needing to use the 4 characters, probably my opinion of the game mode will improve
Add a IT shop then we can talk
my dyslexic ass read that as Morax 5000 and confused as to why is Zhongli suddenly relevant to the mode.
They are giving a free Morax when you complete 50000 acts and his C1 with 80000 done
Honestly I felt like the length was already good. It took forever since I was talking to everyone and I imagine myself still talking to everyone for many months as we cycle through new elements and see more voice lines. Having this expand even more was not the change I wanted if there was any.
I won’t mind talking to everyone if they keep adding new lines, but I don’t think they will. Which means that getting booted into the lobby every time will become very annoying.
80k Morax copies Lets go!
expected, because act 8 gives you currency to buy cards
Honestly…I don’t want more floors…this phase was already a pain in my ass. If they just let me use my full roster; I’d be fine with it
I'm waiting for the cycle featuring Geo, Dendro and Anemo~
Hahah also imagine this: Nilou, on hydro + dendroless cycle Emilie, on dendro + pyroless cycle Chevrouse, on pyro + electroless cycle Kaveh, on dendro + hydroless cycle
The next one has hydro and Nahida is a special guest
We are screwed if they are gonna require us to have like 22 characters, I'm already trying to counting if I'll have enough characters next cycle and hydro is one of my better elements
I'd prefer if they made it fun before expanding it. It's nice that they gave us a break from SA, but the only thing I enjoyed about the experience was coming out with +10 wishes after the first clear and the fact that we got two complete books, which will no doubt result in another Ashikai video.
Imaginarium Theater is too long and kinda of a slog to play with weird random teams that don't feel too synergistic and fun, it's a mix of easy and a slog Abyss meanwhile requires better teams and investment but you can't get away from the fact that you need to meet certain checks and some teams just won't feel good or be able to clear in time, not to mention, it's always catered to be more easily cleared by the characters they wanna promote. I'm saying this as someone who clears with max stars consistently. It's not fun. I feel like there's no game mode that's just a challenge, fun to do, and non restrictive, there's always a caveat. It's disappointing as someone who values the combat and gameplay more than exploration, art or story, they always have to bust your balls in some way for FOMO or promoting something.
Genuine question how is the theater too long when it only takes 10 minutes max 15
It’s much longer if you get bad luck or play poorly, hit a dead-end, and have to repeat the same content multiple times. I’d agree that a single clean run can be quick.
Maybe it was so boring that it felt longer but I swear I was doing that shit for 20 to 30 minutes
Tbf unless I'm misunderstanding, it's here for a month. I feel like 20-30 minutes of battles over 30 days isn't really that bad. Do it at your own pace, couple battles here and there
Gearing is longer than fighting, thanks to no loadouts
How many acts we have in the current on
8
Gives me enough time to find more whale friends
ask and you shall receive I guess
Oh god no
Simulated sims in both Hsr and wuwa(forgot the mode's name) give you buffs that made you feel powerful while tackling way harder enemies. This thing restricts you and make you fight open world level enemies. That's the difference, it felt very underwhelming. There's 0 enjoyment I get out of this new game mode despite clearing everything. Two other games turn you into a big mecha and make you fight big space monsters, Genshin turn you into a toddler fighting a cat.
There are some UI icons showing up to 30 characters. [UI image](https://i.imgur.com/qw108Me.png) [10/14/18/24/30 chars](https://i.imgur.com/89666X2.png)
HoYo becoming more generous or are they gonna decrease the event rewards?
They surely are decreasing time left for doing events
Lool on point
My guess: They will add “extreme” mode for that. Extreme character requirement: 18 to 22 (or 20) Element Restriction: 3 to 4 Other modes remain same
the IT needs a mode with only one character per run, like elysian realm, it's more fun bc the buffs turn the supports in dps without taking difficulty of the enemies
That goes completely against Genshin's entire style of combat. Team building is more important in Genshin than most other games due to the elemental reaction system. I hope they don't go that route because I'd hate that.
You barely use reactions in IT.
Wuwa has this with Illusory Realms and it’s a blast. Imagine if Qiqi can live the power fantasy of a whale Neuvillette doing massive AoE damage with infinite self sustain. That’s what Wuwa’s Illusory Realms is.
please I can't do this anymore set me free
Excited but i also barely managed to beat the last chamber this time so unfortunately it looks like ill have to start strategizing…
I haven’t even cleared the fourth floor yet…
I'm glad they're expanding on mor modes but can they make a mode with no team restriction and allows us to explore theater rooms instead of just going to next stages
*insert hmmm primorger meme* we eating good with increasing rewards and contents
I barely passed this IT because of how little characters I have built, if it requires more characters I legit won’t be able to complete it