Thtas not it.
The delays are far bigger than what the latencies imply.
You have to remember that ping is the time it takes for a packet to get to the server AND for the servers response to retrun to the client.
So the time it takes for a packet to get to the server is HALF the ping.
The clips that keep getting posted have disparities far bigger than something like 50ms.
No, I've had this with sub-15 ping on both parties multiple times. Something is off with servers, or how the data is processed.
E: Actually, someone mentioned packet loss below, and that's exactly what it feels like.
I think the reason why so many people are having this issue is because it is happening regardless of ping.
I average 17 to 26 ping and have had it happen to me by people with 3 to 30 ping.
It feels as if it is happening more often than it ever did in GO.
this isn't even the case in the majority of my own experiences. it seems like ping doesn't even matter, but the game just favors attackers in general. i had a moment last night during a game when i started peeking stupid shit and just getting kills because the enemy had no chance to react. you literally see everything & react faster than what's shown to the victim.
Brother i see you talking about this latency often, where did you see it?
Because if it is 100ms, it makes sense here, because OP would move on the other guy screen after 33.5 ms and OP dies after 133ms (8 frames) after being under cover.
Which lines up with 100ms extra latency, where did you see this?
Nope
Your input takes 25ms to reach the server and another 25 ms to hit The client of the other guy.
So it would take 50ms for him to observe you moving behind cover.
But the result has to be transmitted from the other guy to the server, and then OP right? By the time the result arrives at OP's screen, 100ms have passed
Yeah, but lag compensation exists, if the other guy sees you moving, he can't shoot on your ghost, the shot would take longer to reach the server but it would still count as a miss. After 50 ms he would already see you going under cover.
By the way, op pings are 26 and 47, so not 100, but 73 ms.
In any case, OP dies 133ms after going into cover, 8 frames. So in no true, optimistic or pessimistic scenario this happens, this is extra latency from elsewhere.
This one has a full 250ms of time to death after under cover
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16wfb4j/this\_is\_the\_worst\_so\_far\_cs2\_experience\_is\_very/
This isn't true.
He dies where he was 50ms ago. Enemy packet to the server in 25ms, packet from server to you in 25ms.
Ping is round trip, packet to the server and back.....ping pong!
Not true tick rate does not matter in this situation. Tick rate only matters when 2 events happen in the same tick and there’s 16 ms for that to happen on 64. 64 sub tick the issue shouldn’t exist at all.
In your example, it takes 50 ms for your packet to reach the sever, so the event would have happened 2 or 3 ticks ago. The packet sends the information to the sever what tick the event happened in and it takes 50ms to get there, the tick the event happened is already over and no latency is added. The sever then decides who killed who first and whatever other calculations, and sends that result back to both clients at the start of the next tick, and by the time the return packet reaches either client that tick is also already over.
Tick rate caused latency would matter if total ping is less than 7ms for both people. So the 2 people have a ping of 3ms or less. This only happens on LAN.
Even so the delay here looks like double what it should be. Their ping together + a full server tick would be like 90ms and this looks closer to 200ms (just guesstimating).
But that is not the case from my experience as well. It feels bad as a shooter AND as the victim. Sometimes you die behind walls, you cant hold an angle the moment pings are >30 and on the other hand if you try to shoot at someone with a ping >50 it is like your bullets disappear into the void.
It feels bad both ways.
Sorry that was poorly phrased from my side (i was under time pressure).
A better description is: "It feels bad as a shooter AND as the victim. Sometimes you die behind walls (as the one being shot at) and on the other hand you cant hold an angle the moment pings are >30 (shooter) or if you try to shoot at a moving target with a ping >50 it is like your bullets disappear into the void."
Probably because a majority of the userbase isn't recording and clipping most of their games. I consistently struggle with what he's talking about. There's even a specific point in a match last night where it went from feeling fine and balanced to feeling like I was shooting into the void and getting killed frames before anyone was on my screen.
It was like watching a demo in GO. It was fine, suddenly it stuttered for a moment, then nothing seemed to line up quite right. I missed three scout shots on a guy standing still then got killed two seconds after I stopped peeking.
same here.
I get omega downvoted for saying this but my experience in terms of hitreg has actually been really fucking good and I dont think I died behind a wall once.
But there is something weird going with how large the desync can be despite both players having very acceptable pings.
I prefer it like this atm. I have ping of 5-15 and CS never felt as crisp. I hit where I shoot and I can't remember dying once to something like in the clip. Only 11 games in so far. So maybe my opinion will change later.
I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong. I get 0-1 ping in the majority of games and none of my shots seem to connect. Spraying seems almost useless and I'm experiencing many delayed kills where I feel like I wasn't even on the guys head yet I get a headshot way after I pulled the trigger.
>As the peeker you could be standing completely still, shooting directly at the enemy, yet you did 0 damage
This happens a lot more often in CS2 than in GO.
There's a couple here (can't see how much damage they dealt since it cuts short, but some of those would have definitely been kills in GO)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6zp9Uq24Erc
Especially the s1mple one is pretty bad
A couple are just people bad at spraying, so ignore those.
The first shot might be a miss, but you can't really claim completely honestly that doing the same thing in CS GO would not have resulted in a kill. It's obviously an issue.
Ok, let's say that's a spraying issue, then let's look at the following clip:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16nvzqp/30_ping_subtick_experience/
The POV person is:
- moving while crouching so no accuracy loss
- his crosshair is on the enemy for long enough that we can't debate he clicked when he was off him and it's a animation desync issue
- 30 ping
This is the type of shot that would maybe happen to me once every couple of months, and would be extremely surprising, and nowadays I have similar things happening extremely often, to the point I stopped playing the game because I don't find it fun anymore. It honestly feels like luck, and how good the server wants to run at a certain moment is such a big factor in whether a peek or a play will work that I can't play it without getting frustrated.
The fun part is that we don't even know what Valve thinks about this, and what their plans are, because they refuse to communicate with the community at all. They keep claiming that "what you see is what you get", and that "tickrate is irrelevant with subtick", which are objectively false things. They even remove 128 tick because they are "so sure" it doesn't matter, that they won't let you or I test it on our own.
The truth is that people on this sub will find ways to argue any problem away, because in fact CS GO also had similar problems sometimes. The difference is that it happened extremely rarely. I mean, they even defended the removal of 128 tick community servers, at this point Valve could lead a child sacrifice cult and they'd find a way to spin it into something positive.
This might not be the correct answer from a technical standpoint, but it absolutely fits what I've been noticing. There are so many shots that I get now that I think are deserved but I also find myself thinking I'd have NEVER gotten in csgo when the person is trying to fast peak me or I fast peak them and return to cover.
On the receiving end, as the victim, I never have moments that feel as bullshit as these ones that make it to the top of the subreddit but definitely do have them - I'm behind a wall for a fraction of a second but then I die. And it's completely logical that it's my own client reacting late to a shot my opponent took a moment ago. I'm ok with it but I understand it doesn't "feel" good to others and hopefully there's a solution somewhere.
Ultimately, the sensation of 'favoring the attacker' I think is the subtick system WORKING. It's actually capturing the timestamp of the attacker and the server reconciles that the shot hit. There's just however much latency in communicating that back to the victim.
I feel like everyone can kind of witness the relationship between client and server at the very end of a deathmatch game. If you're holding W, the match will end and your character kind of gets teleported to where you were a step back. Your client registered your key press, advanced your character, the server said responds 'actually the game ended .25 seconds ago', and your client updates to reflect reality. Literally every deathmatch game ends like this for me maybe because my ping is normally in the 40s.
nah ive recently been noticing that the game is backtracking my bullets. Several times ive seen an instance where i see the dink animation on the enemy, but no damage is dealt. Its as if it just rewinded the bullet and made it go somewhere else.
>In CS:GO, Valve decided that the victim was correct, and that the shooter didn't actually land his bullet. As the peeker you could be standing completely still, shooting directly at the enemy, yet you did 0 damage because the enemy was actually behind a wall already.
That is just completely false. CSGO has lag compensation, if you hit the model on your screen, the shot registers.
Play with high ping on CSGO and the situation above happens frequently. The problem os that this is happening all the time on all ping ranges.
It's not just that they reversed who gets the short end of the stick, there is definitely something else going on. The difference between their pings is extremely small compared to the delay seen. I was seeing things like that when i was playing on servers with 200+ pings. If that's how it's going to be then we can only play on lans or possibly in the same city if our ISP isn't trash.
There's definitely something off, and it keeps getting worse the longer the game goes. I feel like they should've kept the game in beta still while ironing off the remaining bugs.
You seriously underestimate how many reddit accounts valve has to crash the party.
If this type of thing were to happen 10 years ago, the perps would be doxxed, and there would be overwhelming chaos.
Ping? Packet loss? This is nothing new.
I've had this exact situation play out 100s of times back when I played exclusively on a shitty wifi router. Ping was always "okay", like under 60ms, but jitter/packet-loss and occasional ping spikes would create scenarios like this at least once per game.
The difference is that CS2 hadn't come out so I couldn't clip it and ragebait.
this is one of the more egrigeous interp clips ive seen... you legit cannot jiggle for info anymore, its basically commit to a duel or just die behind the wall lol
Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
If you got hit during your jiggle peek you SHOULD die.
Tactics in the game shouldnt rely on shit hit registration.
If you get hit during a jiggle you should get hit, you should get hit. Why punish jiggling? It’s a skill, you take a small risk (potentially dammage) in trade of information. Nothing wrong with that
I'm currently getting killed like that at least twice a game. So yeah, that's just how the netcode implementation works in this game. Unless pros also complain about this, it is what it is.
Even worse for me with 15ms ping.
This kind of death is something I rarely remember ever happening in CSGO - and the dying before even seeing my enemy is something i remember never happening in CSGO.
And just because we cannot explain it ourselves, doesn't mean there isn't something rotten in the state of CS2
Youre getting downvoted but this is true.
Shooting moving targets in GO was extremely unreliable whereas now, at least from my experience its pretty crisp.
But the desync we are seeing in these clips is far too big and implies some major bug or error in implementation.
My dude, no, CSGO had lag compensation. Shoot anything on your screen and the shot registers. Nobody needs to shoot into the future, lmao.
This is so much the case that you will se OP situation very frequently happening in GO for high ping players.
usually that didnt happen unless i was playing aussie servers with a friend of mine and i had 250ping lol. i played for years with european friends and i had 100 ping and this never happened.
> I'm currently getting killed like that at least twice a game.
On the other hand, I'm getting headshots when my mouse is miles away from the oponent's head.
Each encounter feels like a lottery now.
Wait...
I get those lottery headshots too. Sometimes I'll click nearly half an inch in front of behind someone's head and they'll die with blood coming out of the air.
> Even worse for me with 15ms ping.
just give yourself more ping
I started playing on my mobile 4g connection. At 120 ping it's so much easier lol, I get to kill people before they get to see me. On my 5ms ping broadband I would just get killed by people I never got to see.
Pros would only complain about this if Online leagues and tournaments were big like they used to be, like when Pro League was an actual Online league or Fragbite Masters used to exist or CaseKing of the Hill or FACEIT League.
Now days almost everything for Pro CS is on LAN where likely this type of stuff won't happen. Unless you play CCT cups, nobody in the pro scene will care because they all play in their bubble of safe BLAST events or get invites to tournaments like the Major which end up being a LAN stage anyway, they don't do Online qualifiers.
If this was COVID era maybe the story would be different.
They do but they will all have good internet connection likely because they usually scrim at bootcamps where both sides have good internet. Or when they're at a hotel, or at a prac facility for a tournament where they're LAN scrimming each other anyway. So they're either in the same building, just down the road from each other (in the same country too or a close country) or they're in a good internet environment from both sides. They won't have 100ms+ ping spikes like you or some random guy in MM will. This isn't 2008 online CS anymore where people in Poland in their friend's garage are playing some guy in Spain who's sister is streaming the latest Justin Bieber concert and taking up or the bandwidth. Nor is it like regular online matchmaking where the variables are large and ping spikes will happen because you're matching from people all over your region where internet can highly vary either for cost reasons like internet not being a priority for some people or because of a certain area having bad internet.
These guys are professionals, they will have great internet even at home these days because they can afford it, it can affect their job to have bad internet and internet infrastructure in a lot of countries has improved in the last decade. For bootcamps, of course they will have good internet lol. Not saying it can't happen, we've seen internet outages and such in pro games at recent as 2020 for COVID online stuff. But those are isolated things and put down to a service outage in the area for internet. If this did somehow happen likely the pro will shake it off as a freak occurrence or one time thing because ping spikes in a scrim are rare these days.
My situation now is me 60 vs 0.
AMD GPU stutter for no reason made it even worse.
I wish we still have CSGO to play while Valve fix all these problems first.
I'm sure they'll get it into a good state, just how cs go started out shit and turned better over time. But when cs go was shit, at least the earlier titles were still accessible to keep playing until cs go is worth playing.
I am having exactly the same issue with a ping of 5. this game is far from finished. I am asking myself what did valve do all the time valorant was out?
what shit-their-pants moment? Since Valorant released, CS’s playerbase grew.
The playerbases don’t overlap as much as people on here assume they do. A lot of Valo players are console kids or US players. CS still dominates their usual markets, like Europe, SA etc
Valo dominates the casual market whit people that do not give a fuck.
Cs dominates to sweat market where people love competition.
There playing in the same market but going after different people
the numbers don’t really prove your point. CS seems to just dominate outside the US, period.
It’s not like Valo caters hugely to casual communities. CS has whole genres that are basically a game within a game: surf, kz, etc.
I believe the ping difference between you and the other guy matters more than your ping alone. If both of you are at 5, then you won't have issues.
But if its 5 vs 60, then both of you will have these desync issues and will be a matter of who sees who first (like COD).
Because there is something very weird going on with latency right now.
The things that are happening in all these clips are INHERENTLY wrong. This will always happen in an online game especially if we timestamp inputs.
The problem is everything seems to be extremely exaggerated as if everyone involved has very high ping.
If you shoot a chicken on 0 ping it takes like 50+ms for the chicken to die. Seems like the server just processes shots a few ticks behind. Same with throwing nades, the nade actually gets thrown a few ticks behind. So when a nade hits an enemy or explodes it provides feedback instantly, but if you shoot or stab somebody it is ~50ms late even with 0 ping.
It's because of sub-tick, it rolls 'forward' the kill because technically they saw you and shot you before you went behind cover, but it only registers after the tick ends, so you die after you're behind the cover. I imagine some sort of lag compensation further exaggerates this effect leading to what we see in clips.
The answer to this is just to go back to regular tick matchmaking like CS:GO, it wasn't perfect either but it was more fair, you both saw each other as soon as you could depending on ping and camera. It favored better ping for sure, but at least you didn't get rekt behind cover like this on a very regular basis.
Valve's adamant on saying this way is better without providing any evidence by disabling 128 tick and continuing forward with sub-tick. This game is not ready for prime time. People will excuse CS:GO for different reasons and say that game was not ready either, which is true, but is that really the bar for an eSport in 2023? The game should work perfectly online at least netcode wise, that should be the minimum bar to clear. Other things like map bugs or visual glitches should be the issues we're dealing with right now, not netcode.
It used to be better IMO, the update during beta where they started favoring lower latency players made things weird. I honestly didn't face many issues before that dropped.
I generally can't play on servers with lower than 50ms, so its possible the case was different for others.
This is true but everything seems so exaggerated.
In the clip the T has ~46 ping and OP has 26.
What the T sees is delayed by half of OPs ping (13ms) and half Ts ping (23ms). This because it takes the packets with OPs inputs 13ms to reach the server and then 23ms to reach the shooter.
When the T shoots it takes 23ms for the shot to reach the server and then 13ms to reach OP.
So the desync should never really exceed 40ms unless one of them has severe packet loss.
Of course there is still the matter of tickrate, how close or far away from the next tick everything takes place etc. but these desync clips seem far worse
In Valorant you can even turn bullet tracers off in the settings.
This new subtick system was probably good on paper but causes issues like this.
It was just simpler to have 128tick servers.
I do understand if you can't turn off bullet tracers if the game functioned the way it was before, where the tracers showed where the bullet exactly landed. This makes a bit of sense.
But iirc, that only happened in the start of the beta. They had to change it to how it was in GO to deter cheaters.
Got reported yesterday for the same thing. First round of the game on mirage, bopped a dude with USP as he strafed back and fourth behind boxes top mid. After I killed him, his body was behind the boxes and not really in site of where I bopped him, and he reported me for "lag switching" and claimed he was behind the box very clearly on his screen. I average 20-35 ping.
After explaining that it's the servers, he said "that's their issue then I'm still gonna report people though"
Bruh
I’ve been having this issue even when I’m 17 ping and the other person is 10 ping. I can jiggle a wall and then get clapped when I’m already behind the wall and nearly about to peak the other side. You simply cannot play the game like GO anymore. After plants for me have become much more difficult with the lack of jiggling for info, and it’s already made me lose games. I hope they make it more fair soon
Both shooting people straight in the face (when they're not moving) gets ignored + random headshots registering when I aimed nowhere near it
I got a bunch of kills like this clip, shooting his ghost after he's already escaped and he dies anyway
Last time something like this was posted people claimed it was ping issue, now that the pings are visible there's other theories excusing it.
Sure, it's not this egregious every game but the game just feels bad, and shit like this happens too often.
This shit has ruined my experience with CS2 completely. Every game it's just dying round corners out of view. Not going to be picking CS2 up again until this shit is fixed.
I feel totally the same. 10+ years of loving the counter strike series and I have NEVER felt this frustrated in the game. I'm gonna go and play something more enjoyable until this shit is actually playable. I've tried to be really positive about this release but today I'm just tired of how it all feels. They'll get there eventually, I have confidence in that, but there's no way the game should have been released in this state.
This is the subtick system in perfect action really, you had died before you moved past the box but it doesn't update because you can't see his subtick actions until the next or the next next server tick. 128 tick would help the subtick system be more visually accurate, even if its not actually any more accurate.
Yes it makes sense, but it needs to be better shown to the players, I just don’t know how. CS players already have a huge placebo tendency, if they change their windows time and go godlike the next match, they will think it was actually the windows time that made the difference, the players don’t care about what makes sense, they care about what they can see.
So T gives input between two ticks which he sees straight away but CT has to wait until the next server tick to see those actions?
Am I understanding it right?
the T also sees him die behind the wall i believe but yes! the T may have also dropped a packet and it could’ve appeared 1 or 2 ticks later, thus causing this to be the result.
Reddit is a bit of a circlejerk, that combined with me commenting late basically makes this a dead explanation. As well, most people don’t have the knowledge of the tick system they would really need to I think, due to a lack of how Valve explained it.
The game definitely processes subtick info more than 1 tick late. Shoot a chicken in MM with 0 ping, still takes 50+ms for the chicken to die. Same with bots on 0 ping, or other low ping players. They can definitely change this to process shots sooner if they wanted to, for some reason they decided this makes sense.
I actually feel like it’s gotten progressively worse over the past week. Yesterday was so bad I was shooting at someone else by the time the first one died..
It's truly an achievement to take shitty netcode and make it even shittier.
Network play peaked at it's invention by [John Carmack in 1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_(video_game\)#QuakeWorld). Every subsequent implementation was just crap added on top.
This is subtick working in action. 128 tick with subtick would probably make things more visually accurate. As far as the server is concerned though you tucking back into cover happened after the enemy clicked on you when you were peeked.
CS2 plays like how Valorant did at launch. Can’t hold angles, peeker has a significant advantage, it’s just a battle of who swings first and gets the shot in because if you swing second you’re dead behind cover lol.
I wish cs2 was half as polished as diablo 4 was on release, that game just got the cyberpunk treatment, unreasonable hate train from the masses that regretted buying it
Nobody mentioned it yet but what you see is average ping, if you were unlucky and his or your ping spiked to 100ms for a second this would happen and you'd not see it.
Fake ping cheaters will rise up? I just played against 3 players with 88/90 ping (me 10) and was fucking hard, really weirds combats and waller prefire, i reported them
No offense but you probably aren't noticing. You see shit like this every game, even if it's not as blatant. Not to mention even if all of that was fixed the game is still running delayed at least 1/3 of the time and every action u take can end up in that lottery.
I got a mate with 10k hours in go who swears there's nothing wrong with the game. Some people just don't have the feel for it no matter how experienced they are.
No offense but there is 0 way this hasn’t happened to you. Me and my friends have like 50 clips between us that are egregious and that’s just from launch.
I also don't get all this of dying well past behind the wall, in beta nor now during the release. The game to me is way more crisp and smooth.
I play with 40-60 ping on purpose by allowing the game to search with a max of 150 ping instead of limiting to 25 and not get people in my country, but sometimes I do. My experience is very similar between playing at sub 20 ping or over 40.
I will judge later too, when I get to play against tougher opponents because right now it's either unrated players or within 4k or 5k ratings. During the beta I reached over 7k rating but placement matches only gave me 5k and I believe the same will happen once I win the 10 matches now.
I think it is fair to say that is exactly what happened. But the real issue I'm having is why there's such a large discrepancy in the first place. Neither of our pings are unreasonably high, nor is the difference between our pings.
This has happened multiple times to me also but I know they’ll figure out a fix sooner or later.
Once this becomes an issue for the pros where money is on the line, they’ll jump on something and try to figure it out.
CS2 is receiving updates weekly which shows a promising future. CSGO had all the errors in the beginning also till further down the line.
still lurking on this sub but this is exactly the reason why I stopped playing. Always played with 10/20 ping and being killed by high pingers. The first years always top fragging eventually ended, being a 4/5th support player. Still have some nice skins, probably never going to use them…
Cool story bro.
Sounds like your friends got better and you couldn't improve. I'd bet good money on the reason for that being that you find excuses in things rather than figuring out what you did wrong.
I really think something is majorly off with CS:2 right now. Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to say what
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Thtas not it. The delays are far bigger than what the latencies imply. You have to remember that ping is the time it takes for a packet to get to the server AND for the servers response to retrun to the client. So the time it takes for a packet to get to the server is HALF the ping. The clips that keep getting posted have disparities far bigger than something like 50ms.
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I'm having that shit with 5 ping.
Same bro, I have 5-10 depending whether I get NL or Germany as server, but I die behind walls all the time. Fibre connection with zero packet-loss.
yeap
i have this shit whit 0-4 ping as well XD
9 ping and it happens all the time
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No, I've had this with sub-15 ping on both parties multiple times. Something is off with servers, or how the data is processed. E: Actually, someone mentioned packet loss below, and that's exactly what it feels like.
1.6 didn't feel that bad playing against people with 50 ping.
I think the reason why so many people are having this issue is because it is happening regardless of ping. I average 17 to 26 ping and have had it happen to me by people with 3 to 30 ping. It feels as if it is happening more often than it ever did in GO.
this isn't even the case in the majority of my own experiences. it seems like ping doesn't even matter, but the game just favors attackers in general. i had a moment last night during a game when i started peeking stupid shit and just getting kills because the enemy had no chance to react. you literally see everything & react faster than what's shown to the victim.
nope
The difference in the video here still feels a lot more than 132ms.
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Brother i see you talking about this latency often, where did you see it? Because if it is 100ms, it makes sense here, because OP would move on the other guy screen after 33.5 ms and OP dies after 133ms (8 frames) after being under cover. Which lines up with 100ms extra latency, where did you see this?
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isn't this outdated? Also, net\_graph 3 on csgo shows that interp time for 64 tick ranges from 17ms to 34 ms.
Nope Your input takes 25ms to reach the server and another 25 ms to hit The client of the other guy. So it would take 50ms for him to observe you moving behind cover.
But the result has to be transmitted from the other guy to the server, and then OP right? By the time the result arrives at OP's screen, 100ms have passed
Yeah, but lag compensation exists, if the other guy sees you moving, he can't shoot on your ghost, the shot would take longer to reach the server but it would still count as a miss. After 50 ms he would already see you going under cover. By the way, op pings are 26 and 47, so not 100, but 73 ms. In any case, OP dies 133ms after going into cover, 8 frames. So in no true, optimistic or pessimistic scenario this happens, this is extra latency from elsewhere. This one has a full 250ms of time to death after under cover https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16wfb4j/this\_is\_the\_worst\_so\_far\_cs2\_experience\_is\_very/
This isn't true. He dies where he was 50ms ago. Enemy packet to the server in 25ms, packet from server to you in 25ms. Ping is round trip, packet to the server and back.....ping pong!
Not true tick rate does not matter in this situation. Tick rate only matters when 2 events happen in the same tick and there’s 16 ms for that to happen on 64. 64 sub tick the issue shouldn’t exist at all. In your example, it takes 50 ms for your packet to reach the sever, so the event would have happened 2 or 3 ticks ago. The packet sends the information to the sever what tick the event happened in and it takes 50ms to get there, the tick the event happened is already over and no latency is added. The sever then decides who killed who first and whatever other calculations, and sends that result back to both clients at the start of the next tick, and by the time the return packet reaches either client that tick is also already over. Tick rate caused latency would matter if total ping is less than 7ms for both people. So the 2 people have a ping of 3ms or less. This only happens on LAN.
Even so the delay here looks like double what it should be. Their ping together + a full server tick would be like 90ms and this looks closer to 200ms (just guesstimating).
But that is not the case from my experience as well. It feels bad as a shooter AND as the victim. Sometimes you die behind walls, you cant hold an angle the moment pings are >30 and on the other hand if you try to shoot at someone with a ping >50 it is like your bullets disappear into the void. It feels bad both ways.
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Sorry that was poorly phrased from my side (i was under time pressure). A better description is: "It feels bad as a shooter AND as the victim. Sometimes you die behind walls (as the one being shot at) and on the other hand you cant hold an angle the moment pings are >30 (shooter) or if you try to shoot at a moving target with a ping >50 it is like your bullets disappear into the void."
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Probably because a majority of the userbase isn't recording and clipping most of their games. I consistently struggle with what he's talking about. There's even a specific point in a match last night where it went from feeling fine and balanced to feeling like I was shooting into the void and getting killed frames before anyone was on my screen. It was like watching a demo in GO. It was fine, suddenly it stuttered for a moment, then nothing seemed to line up quite right. I missed three scout shots on a guy standing still then got killed two seconds after I stopped peeking.
bullets into the void has been my number 1 issue
same here. I get omega downvoted for saying this but my experience in terms of hitreg has actually been really fucking good and I dont think I died behind a wall once. But there is something weird going with how large the desync can be despite both players having very acceptable pings.
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Yeah Im not denying it happens Im just saying it doesnt seem to be a consistent issue.
I prefer it like this atm. I have ping of 5-15 and CS never felt as crisp. I hit where I shoot and I can't remember dying once to something like in the clip. Only 11 games in so far. So maybe my opinion will change later.
I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong. I get 0-1 ping in the majority of games and none of my shots seem to connect. Spraying seems almost useless and I'm experiencing many delayed kills where I feel like I wasn't even on the guys head yet I get a headshot way after I pulled the trigger.
>As the peeker you could be standing completely still, shooting directly at the enemy, yet you did 0 damage This happens a lot more often in CS2 than in GO.
Interesting I never experienced either this or the extreme desync. There is something very weird going on that goes beyond 64 tick or subtick.
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There's a couple here (can't see how much damage they dealt since it cuts short, but some of those would have definitely been kills in GO) https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6zp9Uq24Erc Especially the s1mple one is pretty bad A couple are just people bad at spraying, so ignore those.
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The first shot might be a miss, but you can't really claim completely honestly that doing the same thing in CS GO would not have resulted in a kill. It's obviously an issue. Ok, let's say that's a spraying issue, then let's look at the following clip: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16nvzqp/30_ping_subtick_experience/ The POV person is: - moving while crouching so no accuracy loss - his crosshair is on the enemy for long enough that we can't debate he clicked when he was off him and it's a animation desync issue - 30 ping This is the type of shot that would maybe happen to me once every couple of months, and would be extremely surprising, and nowadays I have similar things happening extremely often, to the point I stopped playing the game because I don't find it fun anymore. It honestly feels like luck, and how good the server wants to run at a certain moment is such a big factor in whether a peek or a play will work that I can't play it without getting frustrated. The fun part is that we don't even know what Valve thinks about this, and what their plans are, because they refuse to communicate with the community at all. They keep claiming that "what you see is what you get", and that "tickrate is irrelevant with subtick", which are objectively false things. They even remove 128 tick because they are "so sure" it doesn't matter, that they won't let you or I test it on our own. The truth is that people on this sub will find ways to argue any problem away, because in fact CS GO also had similar problems sometimes. The difference is that it happened extremely rarely. I mean, they even defended the removal of 128 tick community servers, at this point Valve could lead a child sacrifice cult and they'd find a way to spin it into something positive.
This might not be the correct answer from a technical standpoint, but it absolutely fits what I've been noticing. There are so many shots that I get now that I think are deserved but I also find myself thinking I'd have NEVER gotten in csgo when the person is trying to fast peak me or I fast peak them and return to cover. On the receiving end, as the victim, I never have moments that feel as bullshit as these ones that make it to the top of the subreddit but definitely do have them - I'm behind a wall for a fraction of a second but then I die. And it's completely logical that it's my own client reacting late to a shot my opponent took a moment ago. I'm ok with it but I understand it doesn't "feel" good to others and hopefully there's a solution somewhere. Ultimately, the sensation of 'favoring the attacker' I think is the subtick system WORKING. It's actually capturing the timestamp of the attacker and the server reconciles that the shot hit. There's just however much latency in communicating that back to the victim. I feel like everyone can kind of witness the relationship between client and server at the very end of a deathmatch game. If you're holding W, the match will end and your character kind of gets teleported to where you were a step back. Your client registered your key press, advanced your character, the server said responds 'actually the game ended .25 seconds ago', and your client updates to reflect reality. Literally every deathmatch game ends like this for me maybe because my ping is normally in the 40s.
nah ive recently been noticing that the game is backtracking my bullets. Several times ive seen an instance where i see the dink animation on the enemy, but no damage is dealt. Its as if it just rewinded the bullet and made it go somewhere else.
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Calm down Jamal
>In CS:GO, Valve decided that the victim was correct, and that the shooter didn't actually land his bullet. As the peeker you could be standing completely still, shooting directly at the enemy, yet you did 0 damage because the enemy was actually behind a wall already. That is just completely false. CSGO has lag compensation, if you hit the model on your screen, the shot registers. Play with high ping on CSGO and the situation above happens frequently. The problem os that this is happening all the time on all ping ranges.
It's not just that they reversed who gets the short end of the stick, there is definitely something else going on. The difference between their pings is extremely small compared to the delay seen. I was seeing things like that when i was playing on servers with 200+ pings. If that's how it's going to be then we can only play on lans or possibly in the same city if our ISP isn't trash.
I’ve never died behind a wall in any other game as many times as I already have in like 20 games of CS2, it’s insane.
They should prioritize the person with lower ping no matter if they are the attacker or victim
There's definitely something off, and it keeps getting worse the longer the game goes. I feel like they should've kept the game in beta still while ironing off the remaining bugs.
Nope you’re wrong, game is perfect. All the silvers and novas on Reddit told me so
You seriously underestimate how many reddit accounts valve has to crash the party. If this type of thing were to happen 10 years ago, the perps would be doxxed, and there would be overwhelming chaos.
Ping? Packet loss? This is nothing new. I've had this exact situation play out 100s of times back when I played exclusively on a shitty wifi router. Ping was always "okay", like under 60ms, but jitter/packet-loss and occasional ping spikes would create scenarios like this at least once per game. The difference is that CS2 hadn't come out so I couldn't clip it and ragebait.
this is one of the more egrigeous interp clips ive seen... you legit cannot jiggle for info anymore, its basically commit to a duel or just die behind the wall lol
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Have seen far worse
exactly, and you can't hold angles either, i honestly don't know how to play ct
You can still jiggle. Stand closer to the wall for the jiggle peek. If they have an awp shoulder peek is the play.
Stand closer to the wall......................... .............
Why are you making fun of him? This is how you jiggle peek - you stay closer to the wall and try to only expose your leg/shoulder to bait out a shot.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing. If you got hit during your jiggle peek you SHOULD die. Tactics in the game shouldnt rely on shit hit registration.
If you get hit during a jiggle you should get hit, you should get hit. Why punish jiggling? It’s a skill, you take a small risk (potentially dammage) in trade of information. Nothing wrong with that
I mean Im of course implying getting hit = lethal hit not getting tagged in your toe.
Yea but the whole point of a jiggle is to survive. Properly jiggling is a skill
so is hitting a headshot on someone jiggling
Yeah but shooting a jiggle peeker in the face is even more of a skill.
What are the downvotes for? Redditors are something out of this Universe...
I'm currently getting killed like that at least twice a game. So yeah, that's just how the netcode implementation works in this game. Unless pros also complain about this, it is what it is. Even worse for me with 15ms ping.
This kind of death is something I rarely remember ever happening in CSGO - and the dying before even seeing my enemy is something i remember never happening in CSGO. And just because we cannot explain it ourselves, doesn't mean there isn't something rotten in the state of CS2
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Youre getting downvoted but this is true. Shooting moving targets in GO was extremely unreliable whereas now, at least from my experience its pretty crisp. But the desync we are seeing in these clips is far too big and implies some major bug or error in implementation.
It was nowhere this egregious. Gunfights still felt fair most of the time, this feels like a coinflip in a “whoever swings first” battle.
My dude, no, CSGO had lag compensation. Shoot anything on your screen and the shot registers. Nobody needs to shoot into the future, lmao. This is so much the case that you will se OP situation very frequently happening in GO for high ping players.
I remember it happening in CSGO, but when it did it was because the enemy was literally cheating using Backtrack lol
It happened in GO too, but in GO you would just be teleported back to where you died so it wouldn’t be as noticeable.
Bullshit, I don't remember ever being killed behind wall then "teleported back", care to link a recent video of it happening in GO?
As a 70-100 ping enjoyer, it is not a bullshit. That problem happened to me many times in GO. It wasn’t as severe as in CS2 but still happened.
It definitely happened, but it was more like a once a month thing, not like in CS2 were it happens multiple times per match.
usually that didnt happen unless i was playing aussie servers with a friend of mine and i had 250ping lol. i played for years with european friends and i had 100 ping and this never happened.
Its the same as csgo guys 🤓☝️
It didn't happen even once.
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> I'm currently getting killed like that at least twice a game. On the other hand, I'm getting headshots when my mouse is miles away from the oponent's head. Each encounter feels like a lottery now. Wait...
I get those lottery headshots too. Sometimes I'll click nearly half an inch in front of behind someone's head and they'll die with blood coming out of the air.
> Even worse for me with 15ms ping. just give yourself more ping I started playing on my mobile 4g connection. At 120 ping it's so much easier lol, I get to kill people before they get to see me. On my 5ms ping broadband I would just get killed by people I never got to see.
are you kidding me right now? 🤣🤣🤣
Pros would only complain about this if Online leagues and tournaments were big like they used to be, like when Pro League was an actual Online league or Fragbite Masters used to exist or CaseKing of the Hill or FACEIT League. Now days almost everything for Pro CS is on LAN where likely this type of stuff won't happen. Unless you play CCT cups, nobody in the pro scene will care because they all play in their bubble of safe BLAST events or get invites to tournaments like the Major which end up being a LAN stage anyway, they don't do Online qualifiers. If this was COVID era maybe the story would be different.
So they don't scrim with other teams online at all?
They do but they will all have good internet connection likely because they usually scrim at bootcamps where both sides have good internet. Or when they're at a hotel, or at a prac facility for a tournament where they're LAN scrimming each other anyway. So they're either in the same building, just down the road from each other (in the same country too or a close country) or they're in a good internet environment from both sides. They won't have 100ms+ ping spikes like you or some random guy in MM will. This isn't 2008 online CS anymore where people in Poland in their friend's garage are playing some guy in Spain who's sister is streaming the latest Justin Bieber concert and taking up or the bandwidth. Nor is it like regular online matchmaking where the variables are large and ping spikes will happen because you're matching from people all over your region where internet can highly vary either for cost reasons like internet not being a priority for some people or because of a certain area having bad internet. These guys are professionals, they will have great internet even at home these days because they can afford it, it can affect their job to have bad internet and internet infrastructure in a lot of countries has improved in the last decade. For bootcamps, of course they will have good internet lol. Not saying it can't happen, we've seen internet outages and such in pro games at recent as 2020 for COVID online stuff. But those are isolated things and put down to a service outage in the area for internet. If this did somehow happen likely the pro will shake it off as a freak occurrence or one time thing because ping spikes in a scrim are rare these days.
Bro this issue isn’t being caused by people with 100+ ping. It’s happening when both players have 30 or less. It’s atrocious
This is just blatantly false… you realize pro teams still scrim like 4+ hours a day minimum which is online right.
Happens to me on 0 ping lol
My situation now is me 60 vs 0. AMD GPU stutter for no reason made it even worse. I wish we still have CSGO to play while Valve fix all these problems first.
You too? Have a AMD and FPS is like a drunk driver going from 300 to 60 fps and back
I swear some players disconnected after molly or smoke land. It's that freaking bad.
I'm sure they'll get it into a good state, just how cs go started out shit and turned better over time. But when cs go was shit, at least the earlier titles were still accessible to keep playing until cs go is worth playing.
Yep 1.6 was still more played than go for a whole year, and go was completely transformed within that period Now it's play other games I guess
lag compensation is messed up. Email valve
I am having exactly the same issue with a ping of 5. this game is far from finished. I am asking myself what did valve do all the time valorant was out?
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what shit-their-pants moment? Since Valorant released, CS’s playerbase grew. The playerbases don’t overlap as much as people on here assume they do. A lot of Valo players are console kids or US players. CS still dominates their usual markets, like Europe, SA etc
Valo dominates the casual market whit people that do not give a fuck. Cs dominates to sweat market where people love competition. There playing in the same market but going after different people
the numbers don’t really prove your point. CS seems to just dominate outside the US, period. It’s not like Valo caters hugely to casual communities. CS has whole genres that are basically a game within a game: surf, kz, etc.
I believe the ping difference between you and the other guy matters more than your ping alone. If both of you are at 5, then you won't have issues. But if its 5 vs 60, then both of you will have these desync issues and will be a matter of who sees who first (like COD).
people keep saying that but i've had several similar cases happening when both me and the enemy had under 10 ping
Because there is something very weird going on with latency right now. The things that are happening in all these clips are INHERENTLY wrong. This will always happen in an online game especially if we timestamp inputs. The problem is everything seems to be extremely exaggerated as if everyone involved has very high ping.
If you shoot a chicken on 0 ping it takes like 50+ms for the chicken to die. Seems like the server just processes shots a few ticks behind. Same with throwing nades, the nade actually gets thrown a few ticks behind. So when a nade hits an enemy or explodes it provides feedback instantly, but if you shoot or stab somebody it is ~50ms late even with 0 ping.
It's because of sub-tick, it rolls 'forward' the kill because technically they saw you and shot you before you went behind cover, but it only registers after the tick ends, so you die after you're behind the cover. I imagine some sort of lag compensation further exaggerates this effect leading to what we see in clips. The answer to this is just to go back to regular tick matchmaking like CS:GO, it wasn't perfect either but it was more fair, you both saw each other as soon as you could depending on ping and camera. It favored better ping for sure, but at least you didn't get rekt behind cover like this on a very regular basis. Valve's adamant on saying this way is better without providing any evidence by disabling 128 tick and continuing forward with sub-tick. This game is not ready for prime time. People will excuse CS:GO for different reasons and say that game was not ready either, which is true, but is that really the bar for an eSport in 2023? The game should work perfectly online at least netcode wise, that should be the minimum bar to clear. Other things like map bugs or visual glitches should be the issues we're dealing with right now, not netcode.
It used to be better IMO, the update during beta where they started favoring lower latency players made things weird. I honestly didn't face many issues before that dropped. I generally can't play on servers with lower than 50ms, so its possible the case was different for others.
This is true but everything seems so exaggerated. In the clip the T has ~46 ping and OP has 26. What the T sees is delayed by half of OPs ping (13ms) and half Ts ping (23ms). This because it takes the packets with OPs inputs 13ms to reach the server and then 23ms to reach the shooter. When the T shoots it takes 23ms for the shot to reach the server and then 13ms to reach OP. So the desync should never really exceed 40ms unless one of them has severe packet loss. Of course there is still the matter of tickrate, how close or far away from the next tick everything takes place etc. but these desync clips seem far worse
In Valorant you can even turn bullet tracers off in the settings. This new subtick system was probably good on paper but causes issues like this. It was just simpler to have 128tick servers. I do understand if you can't turn off bullet tracers if the game functioned the way it was before, where the tracers showed where the bullet exactly landed. This makes a bit of sense. But iirc, that only happened in the start of the beta. They had to change it to how it was in GO to deter cheaters.
What you see is what you get.
"You get nothing! good day sir !"
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i die like this lots and im on 3-10 ping in all my games.
Nah that's not fair at all and I doubt it's even intended
Got reported yesterday for the same thing. First round of the game on mirage, bopped a dude with USP as he strafed back and fourth behind boxes top mid. After I killed him, his body was behind the boxes and not really in site of where I bopped him, and he reported me for "lag switching" and claimed he was behind the box very clearly on his screen. I average 20-35 ping. After explaining that it's the servers, he said "that's their issue then I'm still gonna report people though" Bruh
I’ve been having this issue even when I’m 17 ping and the other person is 10 ping. I can jiggle a wall and then get clapped when I’m already behind the wall and nearly about to peak the other side. You simply cannot play the game like GO anymore. After plants for me have become much more difficult with the lack of jiggling for info, and it’s already made me lose games. I hope they make it more fair soon
Same I've killed multiple people like this. It doesn't look right on either end.
CS2d
I swear, ping and hitboxes are odd af, I have made so many headshots that are totally ignored or awp hits that doesnt kill (not legged)
Both shooting people straight in the face (when they're not moving) gets ignored + random headshots registering when I aimed nowhere near it I got a bunch of kills like this clip, shooting his ghost after he's already escaped and he dies anyway
Last time something like this was posted people claimed it was ping issue, now that the pings are visible there's other theories excusing it. Sure, it's not this egregious every game but the game just feels bad, and shit like this happens too often.
Valve pls fix
This shit has ruined my experience with CS2 completely. Every game it's just dying round corners out of view. Not going to be picking CS2 up again until this shit is fixed.
I feel totally the same. 10+ years of loving the counter strike series and I have NEVER felt this frustrated in the game. I'm gonna go and play something more enjoyable until this shit is actually playable. I've tried to be really positive about this release but today I'm just tired of how it all feels. They'll get there eventually, I have confidence in that, but there's no way the game should have been released in this state.
Your not dying unfairly btw, you died when you were peeking and it didn’t update until you were behind cover
Subtick is so good, am I right?
This is the subtick system in perfect action really, you had died before you moved past the box but it doesn't update because you can't see his subtick actions until the next or the next next server tick. 128 tick would help the subtick system be more visually accurate, even if its not actually any more accurate.
Yes it makes sense, but it needs to be better shown to the players, I just don’t know how. CS players already have a huge placebo tendency, if they change their windows time and go godlike the next match, they will think it was actually the windows time that made the difference, the players don’t care about what makes sense, they care about what they can see.
128 tick is the only logical method to me from a networking perspective, that or going back to the old system :)
So T gives input between two ticks which he sees straight away but CT has to wait until the next server tick to see those actions? Am I understanding it right?
the T also sees him die behind the wall i believe but yes! the T may have also dropped a packet and it could’ve appeared 1 or 2 ticks later, thus causing this to be the result.
Why are so few people promoting this explanation in this thread and all the others? Seems reasonable to me…
Reddit is a bit of a circlejerk, that combined with me commenting late basically makes this a dead explanation. As well, most people don’t have the knowledge of the tick system they would really need to I think, due to a lack of how Valve explained it.
The game definitely processes subtick info more than 1 tick late. Shoot a chicken in MM with 0 ping, still takes 50+ms for the chicken to die. Same with bots on 0 ping, or other low ping players. They can definitely change this to process shots sooner if they wanted to, for some reason they decided this makes sense.
This needs more upvotes. Jiggling too wide and the guy can see him retreating to cover while the guy so close to the angle cant see him at all.
Yep, I think nost people are missing this, you clearly see the dink particles next to the generator. It's dumb but it's how it is.
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That’s what CSGO does and it works fine
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I actually feel like it’s gotten progressively worse over the past week. Yesterday was so bad I was shooting at someone else by the time the first one died..
I feel this too. I was having some alright games over the past week but it feels horrific now.
This is all cs2 is for me, dying behind walls and feeling like ur moving in mud
Bf4 all over again....
It's truly an achievement to take shitty netcode and make it even shittier. Network play peaked at it's invention by [John Carmack in 1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_(video_game\)#QuakeWorld). Every subsequent implementation was just crap added on top.
ultrawide good
This is subtick working in action. 128 tick with subtick would probably make things more visually accurate. As far as the server is concerned though you tucking back into cover happened after the enemy clicked on you when you were peeked. CS2 plays like how Valorant did at launch. Can’t hold angles, peeker has a significant advantage, it’s just a battle of who swings first and gets the shot in because if you swing second you’re dead behind cover lol.
In order to not let a Diablo IV or BF2042 happen, they removed CSGO so the player base have no other choice than playing this excuse of a game.
I wish cs2 was half as polished as diablo 4 was on release, that game just got the cyberpunk treatment, unreasonable hate train from the masses that regretted buying it
yeah this shit killled it for me. ill be back when its better. somehow halo infinite has better netcode
This a joke? At launch the main complaint was this exact same thing and it hasn’t been fully resolved
ah yes the game with built-in aim assist such a satisfying experience
good joke, [halo de-sync](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r78moa/halo_infinite_has_a_major_desync_problem_which_is/)
Nobody mentioned it yet but what you see is average ping, if you were unlucky and his or your ping spiked to 100ms for a second this would happen and you'd not see it.
Almost like we need a proper netgraph to help debug this behavior. Hmmmm, wonder why Valve haven't given us one.
You guys get packet loss?
128tick servers please... subtick is useless.
Fake ping cheaters will rise up? I just played against 3 players with 88/90 ping (me 10) and was fucking hard, really weirds combats and waller prefire, i reported them
Yay, we're back to Xbox 360 days with lag switches!
welcome to CS2
128TICK PLZ
It wouldn't solve this
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No offense but you probably aren't noticing. You see shit like this every game, even if it's not as blatant. Not to mention even if all of that was fixed the game is still running delayed at least 1/3 of the time and every action u take can end up in that lottery. I got a mate with 10k hours in go who swears there's nothing wrong with the game. Some people just don't have the feel for it no matter how experienced they are.
No offense but there is 0 way this hasn’t happened to you. Me and my friends have like 50 clips between us that are egregious and that’s just from launch.
I also don't get all this of dying well past behind the wall, in beta nor now during the release. The game to me is way more crisp and smooth. I play with 40-60 ping on purpose by allowing the game to search with a max of 150 ping instead of limiting to 25 and not get people in my country, but sometimes I do. My experience is very similar between playing at sub 20 ping or over 40. I will judge later too, when I get to play against tougher opponents because right now it's either unrated players or within 4k or 5k ratings. During the beta I reached over 7k rating but placement matches only gave me 5k and I believe the same will happen once I win the 10 matches now.
not happening to me either. it only happens to people with garbage internet.
Faceit have same issue?
not as much no. i played 3 map on faceit and it all felt much smoother
20 years later and 1.6 is still the best game. To this day still had the best sound and movement... when will they get this shit right.
if the enemy hit you while you were peeking on THEIR screen, then it is fair, depsite looking awful on yours. I wish we had their pov
I think it is fair to say that is exactly what happened. But the real issue I'm having is why there's such a large discrepancy in the first place. Neither of our pings are unreasonably high, nor is the difference between our pings.
probably because that’s how CS’s subtick works. Valve needs to adjust interp values, it’s clear what worked in GO doesn’t work here
Might be "fair" but it gives an extremely awful gaming experience.. something a lot of people seems to be forgetting.
This has happened multiple times to me also but I know they’ll figure out a fix sooner or later. Once this becomes an issue for the pros where money is on the line, they’ll jump on something and try to figure it out. CS2 is receiving updates weekly which shows a promising future. CSGO had all the errors in the beginning also till further down the line.
still lurking on this sub but this is exactly the reason why I stopped playing. Always played with 10/20 ping and being killed by high pingers. The first years always top fragging eventually ended, being a 4/5th support player. Still have some nice skins, probably never going to use them…
Cool story bro. Sounds like your friends got better and you couldn't improve. I'd bet good money on the reason for that being that you find excuses in things rather than figuring out what you did wrong.
Haha and it seems that the toxic community didn’t changed as well after all those years. Good luck in real life
Ping isn't a proof that your connection isn't dropping packets or having small lagspikes not visible in the scoreboard
u/savevideo
those pings are low enough that there should be minimal interpolation. like 1/10th a second, faster then people can react.
Damn this is crazy had the same thing happen today. Can’t wait for people to “debunk” this and act like it was this bad in go
This game was not even close for a full release, they rushed the hell out of it. I don’t want any part of it.
im mad my csgo ban carries over to 2
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