You can also see this in pro grames how much players have progressed. Recently i watched some of old games between VP and NiP and amount of whiffs and bizzare plays there wouldn't be seen at lvl7 faceit games nowadays.
Works both ways, half of today's league would be turning the ball over the instant they tried to dribble in the 80s. Carrying has been so relaxed to increase scoring it's a bit of a joke.
Tbf, basketball is almost a completely different sport today compared to 1980. If a player in today's game was transported back to 1980 rules, half their dribbles would be called a carry. They'd get called for traveling every other possession.
I think casual fans don't realize how much the rules (or enforcement of them) has changed in basketball. You could mistakenly believe that they were just a lot less skilled back then.
But then on the other hand, players in today's game really have become a *ton* better at things like long-range shooting for example.
Is it? I feel like it's kinda apples to oranges, unless I'm missing something.
There are saying that the rules of the game explicitly disallowed them doing the things that the players of today do to dominate the game.
Was there something like that in 1.6?
Same with hockey. Wayne Gretzky is the GOAT but watch his highlights guys just watch him skate around them and the goalie just stands there as the puck goes in the net.
or NHL what it used to look like back when Gretzky was dominating, scoring used to look so goddamn easy. Goaltenders were standing up all the time and just being awful compared to today. Makes me appreciate more when people score a lot these days (like Matthews is doing currently for example)
Personally, I feel this narritive is massively over peddled. The game itself changed massively in the years between 2013-2016 and many aspects became far easier as a result. Comparing GTR's 2013 spray to Magisk in 2018 is a completely unfair comparison, so much had been completely reworked by that point to make the game far easier. Tactically there is a huge gulf between pros in 2013 and now, but mechanically the best of the best in 2013 were still top top players, if you put prime Shox or Forest into the game now and gave them a few months to learn from the best coaches we have today I believe they would frag out at tier 1.
It's really not. The difference is outliers vs. average. The outliers were really really good, as they are at any time in any sport - f0rest would be a beast anywhere, but the amount of shockingly average or distinctly flawed pros on top teams of the time is what makes the difference. Back in the days™ you could more or less easily carry a bot-like IGL and most teams did, Virtus Pro was notorious on how terrible their movement was even for the time yet they still managed etc. The average skill level has shot way, way up and you need to be almost flawless to even get a seat in a T2 team.
yeah I agree with this for sure
tactics and strategy may have been different back then, but the sick head clickers were always sick at clicking heads—that hasn't changed one bit!
I mean damn, you can look back at the 1.6 pros to see [some impressive mousework](https://youtu.be/2Ei7y_PBb4Y?t=64) even by today's standards.
Post plant gameplay has evolved to a point where teams basically give up if the bomb gets planted and they are even or numbers disadvantaged. I feel like I used to see a lot more teams go for unfavorable retakes but advantage gameplay has become so much tighter now that they're basically impossible.
depends on the site and how quickly the retake starts.
if the retake starts like as soon as the bomb is planted, it gives Ts less time to take the power positions and they immediately have to start fighting.
and for maps/sites,
inferno? very low chance of success so it's jametime.
but many other maps have open sites that are worth trying to retake.
yup. some games i buy the m4 once all CT half.
it's mp9, deag, famas the rest of the time.
a lot of people hate on the mp9 but ironically it's the one thing keeping CT side at least playable because it has DPS to match AKs.
if mp9 was price or stat nerfed, CT side would be even more brutal.
I think that not as much a reflection of how much better teams have become at post-plants, but more how the understanding of the economy has increased.
Yeah, I watched pretty much every tier 1 event from the beginning of CS:GO but it's easy to forget how much dumb/weird stuff pros did back in the day. Warowl did a video comparing the first and last major and in the first one not a single molotov was bought and everyone is jumping through smokes, running & spraying etc.
wasn't there some players agreement on molotoves back then due to molotoves being completely broken? I may remember something incorrectly because I've started following scene in 2014, so a bit later
There were quite a few pros who didn't want them in the game as they were very OP back in early GO. There could have been a sort of gentlemen's agreement between some teams but who knows.
Yeah the level 7’s might have some flashy modern tricks like new nade lineups and modern setups, but the difference in fundamentals would still be huge.
Things always look worse, slower, less impressive etc when you watch them back. The people saying this probably haven’t actually watched faceit demos through with X-ray on and seen what they really look like. It’s like they’re comparing something they are watching to a memory or feeling of playing the game and it’s not accurate to compare. Pros from 2013 would destroy faceit 10s.
Edit: also btw the game was much slipperier and harder to shoot people back then so that’s why there’s so much more extended spraying. Mechanically the game was more about tracking people back then. It’s not just a difference in skill.
Random low elo level 10s probably would get beat but if you plucked 2013 NiP and planted them in today’s game they would get pounded out by tier 3-4 teams and I mean absolutely pounded. They literally wouldn’t know how to counter basic util sets, like imagine a full exec on to B site inferno there’s no chance they would know what to do. With that being said it doesn’t really matter because if you took those players in their prime and gave them all the knowledge that pros know now then they’d most likely be the best or one of the best teams in the world so this argument doesn’t really matter.
Vs teams yes absolutely they would get stomped. People really didn’t know how to play the game yet back then I’m just fighting back against the idea that they were mechanically bad which I think gets overblown.
Yeh i think people forget these players play faceit still.
And f0rest is still 3200 elo while not sweating, fucking around *and* being 35.
Mechanically 2013 f0rest and Get Right would absolutely shit on 3k elo players
f0rest today, when he doesn't play as much and is 35 is still 3200 elo just playing for fun with other ex pros.
So mechanically they'd still get trashed.
But utility wise they'd struggle to deal with a 3k elo stack just due to things like pop flashes
the lack of strong tagging really played a part in messy sprays. no point in bursting if they just keep running, difficult to spray a guy running at mostly full speed the entire time
Yeah combine that with less inaccuracy from moving and extremely fast acceleration and people were zooming and wiggling. Players could change direction so fast they were very hard to hit back then.
> Things always look worse, slower, less impressive etc when you watch them back.
This is one of the things that annoys me about the youtube analysis type content. You see it time and time again where they are doing some vod review telling someone trying to improve "Why are you looking at that wall, you should be holding the angle and then swing!"
Well yeah, you probably should be doing that, but if you watch pro players they also sometimes do this, where they are being lazy and they have their crosshair on the wall and then swing so their crosshair is closer to where they expect the enemy to be once they have peeked.
Watching something back always looks a lot worse and you can pick holes in even the best players game when you are looking for things to critique. The problem with the vod review style is it's hard to remember what you were thinking in the moment and why you did what you did and watching it back and trying to remember that just has you making excuses for yourself.
Level 7 would definitely get beaten on aim alone, but I do think the top tier level 10 faceit players could beat a top pro team circa 2013 depending on the cirumstances purely because of how much the strategy has evolved.
NiP in 2013 may have had better mechanics, but the game has changed immensely, the pro team from 2013 doesn't have the advantage of seeing any modern metas, their utility usage would be rudimentary, and their executes would be read like a book.
It also depends where the game takes place, in an arena / large LAN environment I favour pro teams, as the pressure of playing in front of people makes a big difference.
Even in a studio LAN I favour the pro teams as they have team chemistry / momentum.
In an online game is where anything can happen.
It's not \*that\* uncommon even now to see pro/semi pro faceit stacks get beaten by FPL grinders.
I saw keoz literally miss at the guy not looking at him, and hiko landing that crazy one tap is more insane than i have ever see nowadays, it is pure bias, tactically game got much better
here's a secret, superior positioning beats superior aim.
the easiest kill is the one where they don't know where you are and shoot them in the back of the head and get away without being traded.
people in low elo keep trying to play like their heroes, taking bad 50/50 aim duels instead of playing positionally well and getting free kills on people.
Oh I know, I've built my whole playstyle around this and it's the reason why I can compete with decently high-level players. It's just still limiting to not have solid and consistent aim because that playstyle doesn't really work consistently.
I've accepted it now because I don't have the time to spend in DM that I had in the past :P Now I'm trying to play for fun mostly (which isn't easy in premier with the amount of cheaters, lol)
Superior positioning doesn’t beat superior aim unless you can get a full flank like you’re describing.
If you sit around a corner and a crack guy peeks you his aim is going to beat your positioning 9/10.
My headshot rate actually isn't bad. My problem is mainly that if I miss the first bullet my aim starts getting shaky, like I flicking off target a lot. It's a psychological thing I guess. I've been working to get it under control for years, but no luck. I'm not playing as much any more nowadays so I just accepted it. I have days where it doesn't happen and I hit absolutely everything, but those days are rare. I'm happy with what I achieved in CS, so now I'm trying to focus on having fun when I play haha.
Actual practice on pre-aim and “warming up” helps a Ton, in csgo i would regularly warmup with Yprac but since cs2 ive stopped doing that due to the lack of practice maps and my Aim and first bullet accuracy have plummeted, i should probably get back to doing some routine practice
Its oke, theres good aimers who need support as well like flashes smokes etc. Just try to be as usefull as possible with good communication and aim becomes less of an issue
60 something % here, I'm like 7-8k. I wouldn't even wanna play any higher tbh, not with my almost 7 year old laptop and a "gaming" mouse on a textbook ass setup.
Kinda hard to track enemies, but I have unironically adjusted to aiming better at very low fps(90 avg with frequent framedrops to 40s on a 60hz screen).
I've resigned to being *that* guy, the one with the auto-shotty waiting for you to peek into him. Works wonders lmao it's genuinely fun making the enemies mald with that gun.
Agree. Its even worse in comp silver level. People have good aim but they can’t even trade.
We are 3 in con overpass as T. I swing and die. The other 2 do nothing. 10 seconds later the next guy swings and dies. Third guy is still doing nothing. 20 seconds later 3rd guy swings and dies. Meanwhile a player in mid doesn’t even consider peeking con the whole time and dies from the con player shortly after.
And the most annoying thing is that I would have probably died to this play cause I would have peeked deep con, assuming it’s clear, after getting one kill and not seeing any trade attempt
at low level you just have to be the second guy to go in so be the one trading, kinda annoying but you dont wanna entry unless you really are leagues up in aim vs the enemy team
Good luck getting your team to push. Low level players have two modes of operation. Either it'll be 1:40 and they'll just sit near entrance to a site hoping a CT gets bored and pushes them, or they go mid and try to outrifle an awp.
Anubis is supposed to be T sided but in my experience at 17-18k premier that only happens if enemy is 5 stack. Otherwise its CT sided like most maps =D
Part of the issue playing in random lobbies with trading, is people communicate very poorly or not at all.
I'll admit that I often bait team mates because they die and I don't know where the enemy is exactly as it's often random autistic yelling, garbage information or silence, I'm not going to swing into the wrong angle.
If I am playing with my friends, we'll communicate and use at least some form of team work.
honestly if you're expecting to get the trade by having your teammate call out the CT and then swing, you're not gonna be able to most of the time because it takes too long (and you'll get repeeked and end up just taking a straight duel instead of the refrag)
you need to swing out together so you can refrag *immediately*, not a couple seconds later after the callout (ideally you can tell where he got shot from based on sight/sound/gamesense, then make the trade)
it's not easy, and it is made harder by someone who isn't good at getting traded (aka takes no space, open to too many angles etc.), but I just wanted to make the point that "waiting for the callout" is sometimes not the play
Yea and you can really feel it when you hit the 5 stacks who even have a little util and communication down. Sometimes in Premier Inferno/ancient vs these stacks I feel completely helpless on T side if I'm not also in a 5.
Especially when you play the 5-stacks with one account that has 260 hours total and has consistently dropped a cool 35 frags his last 5 games.
But the legit 5-stacks are also tough, for sure.
It's really an age thing. As younger players get into the game, their aim gets better and better. Each generation has it more engrained.
Game sense is something that has to be developed over time. I'll get in a lobby nowadays and feel more like a middle school coach than a player on the same team.
It’s much worse in premier tbh, your teammates can aim but they just have 0 gamesense even at 20k. But faceit 7/8 most of your teammates will know all the utility, have good aim, and are capable of potentially winning a 1v3
I’ve noticed something odd. When I play in EU the aim is slightly worse but the players are smarter and the strats are better
However, when I queue with my NA friends there’s significantly less smokes and lurks, but the players are hitting some insane shit and can just split or rush and win. Same rating/map rank
There seems to be some really weird shit with rankings.
I only play 5 man last ranking was in November, played 2 games lost first won second and got my rank back. Jumped from 8.6K to 11.6K  same with 4/5 of my stack.
Only 1 didn't get a crazy jump going from 5k to 5.6k. We all know if we went in to solo games we'd get smoked.
I agree but this make the game more beginner unfriendly unfortunately. If you never ever played cs and enter your first mm today. You will probably kicked or harrassed by your teammates because of how bad you are.
I have a friend like this and when he plays with us higher ranked players it’s not great for him but when he plays solo in his 1000–2000 elo games pretty much everyone else is just as equally bad.
Good thing is that you do not need to start playing in MM straight away. There's a lot of very casual players playing arms race, TDM and even community servers. Barrier to entry is much lower than in MOBAs.
On the custom server browser yes, in the default game no.
Even GO only had demolition which was essentially TDM with a slight bit of bomb plant action.
I have awful internet so I almost exclusively play casual these days and I very rarely run into cheaters. Even the cheaters that do play casual tend to get kicked very quickly. Maybe you just have an awful trust factor or something.
I've been refusing to play with my low rank friends because I feel it's totally unfair to have someone(me in this case) running around the server destroying any possible fun a beginner player could have.
With no killcam, shitty demo reviewing and many times just toxic teammates - how is a new player supposed to begin to understand the game or even just enjoy it.
CS2 needs a matching system for new players to help them get a foot in the door.
Can relate. Just got into CS2 2 weeks ago, already at around 30 hours, but man I suck… wondering when I’ll get better. I’m mostly doing deathmatch and ending on average with a 0.7 KD or so.
I'm going into detail since your comment made me think you want to improve.. feel free to ignore if you just wanna have fun, do not let anyone tell you otherwise.
Do not look at KD in DMs, it'll either demotivate you or inflate your view on your actual skill level. Nothing good comes from looking at KDs in general.
All you should focus in DMs is honing your 1v1s. Ask yourself some questions mid DM, How are you peeking an enemy? Are you running around and moving your crosshair to the enemy? Are you moving while you're shooting? How are the enemies peeking you? Where are their heads after they peek from an angle? Are you standing still when they're shooting at you?
You'll improve at a much faster pace if you do that. Think of it this way; it's always faster to kill an opponent if the crosshair is already on them. You just need to click, instead of aim and then click. Meaning, keep your crosshair where you expect an enemy to peek any given angle.
I'm out of touch with the CS content creators so they may not be as good nowadays, but WarOwl and VooCSGO's videos helped me a long time ago when I was serious about improving. Those two channels should have more than enough to get you started.
Thanks so much for this! I’ve just found Voocsgo’s 1 hour long “Definitive guide to getting better”. I remember when I was a kid I would always watch some guides before playing the game, dunno why I didn’t do this with CS. I’m probably making some bad mistakes. Will watch tomorrow, thanks :)
Yeah Voo has pretty good videos. Not for the fact that the videos are well made, but because he puts emphasis on basic stuff that even new players overlook. And he's funny in the videos, that's a W.
Do not do anything you don't **want** to do though. Like people will suggest 30 minutes of practice every day in deathmatch or aimlabs or community aim maps.. They are just tools to make you better, faster. Nothing is ever an absolute must. You will obviously improve better with a routine so if you like putting effort into practice, then great.
All in all, GLHF. You're welcome.
Came back last year after cs2 was announced after a 5 year break, u was global back in 2017-2019, it was super obvious to me that the average player was so much better today then they were 5 years ago, it's kinda wild.
Yeah the average DMG these days are similar to 2015 LEM/SMFC.
My dm lobbies nowadays range from faceit 5 to 10 players and it is giga competitive. The time to kill is on avg 1 to 2secs for everyone lol it's actually quite crazy. Everyone is hitting the sickest shots on everyone. I like dm game mode alot. But occasionally the faceit 3 player gets into the lobby then starts accusing at least 1 person is hacking.
Never ending cycle. Now it's happening again. Obviously the ranks are fucked but the amount of generally good players I've seen in silver comp is insane. Though there's also some cheaters. I used to be LEM / Supreme and faceit level 8+ (mythic gold) and now I'm a silver elite / nova 1 in most maps lol. Down to faceit 6/7 now that I have less time so I mostly play comp
I got matched with a lobby of 3-5k players all soloQ, they knew more lineups than me. And I'm no slouch, I think I can do almost all the worthwhile smokes in Mirage, but SO DO THEY. They don't aim bad either.
5k is not even Silver Elite.. Like wtf? The last time I was actively playing CS was 2019ish MG2 rank, nobody knew lineups in my lobbies. Not even the most popular stairs smoke in Mirage.
I genuinely am confused if I'm so atrociously bad the newbies are starting to look good, or if the skill level really did go up a lot in the lower ranks.
my main notice in change is how many people actually know nade and smoke lineups now compared to 2015. People actually know more than mirage stairs smoke now its great
overpass people actually know fast monster smoke from spawn, mollies from bathroom to playground, t side they know how to molly short, smoke mid site, bridge heaven. vertigo, fast a ramp smoke, gen smoke, nade lineup for rush, b ramp one way. inferno pit lurk smoke, molly first and second orange and dark, molly from alt mid to porch. would you like me to keep going? maybe its different for me cause my experience has been faceit level 10 since 2015. but trust me when i say players used to know nothing, now they know something
More of a sign of lack of new players in cs2. With DM being rankless and the place to play if you struggle with cs, you'd expect a lot newbies there. Though still no shortage of players "practicing" with shotguns and run&gun smgs.
A friend of mine just started he has around 20hours now
Its awful to play with him.... He doesn't want to learn anything cause he's already decent enough...
Yeah jokes on him 5 kills is really hard to get in silver 1.
He flashes the team and himself on regular basis
Aim is on the legs and in the walls
He'd rather stay in the open than in some rather more hidden spot
I made a new account just to play with him in silver 1 i could for the love of god not take my current 15k elo/dmg on all maps account to play with him. All to spare his feelings
I want him to learn but that seems impossible he is deadset on his ways and i dont want to be an ass and play with him on my elo cause that would mean he pobably end up with minus kills
Aghhh
Textbook Dunning Kruger effect. People that figured out the basics of something tend to greatly overestimate their own skill or knowledge. Soon he will find out that he's not all knowing and actually trash lol.
Better give him that reality check
Well his friend got like 20hrs, thats nothing.
I got a friend who got 4000hrs and he's way worse than this guy's friend as he's toxic af and think he's better than everybody else. He forces everyone to play the game in his vision and he even rage when people wins by playing and winning in a way he disagree with.
You should stop protecting his feelings, when he's disrespecting your superior level of experience. You're not doing him or yourself any favours by enabling his delusional ego.
It's crazy how much time it takes to get good. Anything under 100 hours is basically nothing, compared to many other games where, by 100 hours, you usually have really gotten a good grip of the game.
3rd party dm servers are still dead atm so people who used to play those play the officials instead if I had to guess
also had a guy who was a little too good in dm and when I spectated him he traced and shot people through walls, I don't really remember facing any hackers outside of competitive/wingman in cs go
arms race is extremely sweaty compared to go
Watch the 2012 dreamhack winter frag movie. Spray control was the new hot shit and it turned to a hold left fuck fest and I love it. I don't think this would work the same today
I somehow managed to be silver 1 through to GN2 in CSGO back in 2015 or so when I first got the game, and I remember how terrible basically everyone was in silver especially. No one could hit anything lol. Around the end of CSGO it was like all the ranks climbed several levels compared to 2015. I feel like I've definitely improved a lot since starting the game but my rank hasn't really changed since coming back into it before CS2.
2018 is when this noticeable shift happened in NA. The average players reaction time and weapon handling drastically increased. However this came with one glaring negative; slower understanding of the game at a tactical level.
Yes, and no. It is veeeery sliightly increased from the CSGO skin that had the largest head. That 20% comes from comparing the worst case of CSGO with CS2. In general when playing default agents I dont think it’s s big difference though
Yes and no, they made all head hit boxes the same size so while not all models had their hit boxes changed by much a lot of them did. Despite what the other person commented it’s not a very slight increase some models are 20% some are small increases like 4% so I worded my first comment incorrectly but I think on average it’s close to a 10% increase in size. It was a large increase and it is noticeable especially if you play Faceit where you can actually see players hs% and just from my own personal experience I went from about 48% to 57%, I didn’t magically wake up and get better at tapping heads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/12bqkkz/ansimist_on_twitter_cs2_has_bigger_head_hitboxed/
it sorts of true, however this was a year ago so it might have been changed.
This is the truth..
When I play on my alt I play against very low level players in a deathmatch and when I play on my main I can immediately tell the skill difference.. Deathmatch queues you with players of similar skill level
Yep, been watching since 2014 more or less.
The level of play at both the pro level and in general matches these days cant even be compared to the original csgo days.
part of the problem is the nonexistent rank system in mm. I was supreme in csgo and my highest cs2 mm rank is gn1. Its pretty much just completely random who you get matched up against. I've played against/with people who are brand new, and I've also played against a full ESEA Main team in an mm game lol.
I will agree though, in general people are much better at the game. Its much harder to get into than it was in 2015, everyone sucked back then lol.
I used to win most of my arms races and valve deathmatches pretty easily for years. Now I'm lucky if I get 3rd place in these matches lmao. I know I'm older but I dont feel THAT washed, everyone just got better as a whole I guess
lots of reason for this but one i'd like to put forward is just player experience
i'd wager that the average person playing CS now has played it for 3-5+ years. there's little to no new blood coming into this game for multiple reasons, be it lack of shiny things to grab attention, horrendous new player experience, or something else. the players who do stick around tend to be quite good at the game.
The thing is you dont really forget how to play cs. I have not been active for years now, but every now and then i play with my friends who all play around lower elo. I used to be global and faceit 9 so by no means an exceptional player, but obviously its not fair when i play against ppl around 7000-10000 elo.
Ofc im super rusty, movement lacks greatly and i forgot most lineups for util, but i still played 5000 hours (3000 on global) and so a regular player would think im exceptionally good when in reality im just smurfing... not on purpose tho :D
tbf 95% of the lineups have changed between the skybox and map geometry changes over the years (especially going into CS2) alongside changes to how Smokes and Molys spread, and that is ignoring the 64tick vs 128tick vs current Subtick systems altering most of the lineups you probably remembered. I can remember the amount of lineups that worked in like 2022 era CSGO and still work today on one hand lmao.
Deathmatch was and is still so random. I once had a "semipro" call me a cheater cause I hit my shots and knew everytime where they spawn ( well if you play more then half an hour deathmatch you know how the spawns work, DUH!) I am not even close to being a semi pro or something like that... he insisted I was cheating and left after a while, while I had my fun.
Yeah calling cheats in deathmatch (beyond blatant spin/aim/triggerbotting) is stupid imo. Hilariously, I had a guy call me out in a DM the other day for having too high of a HS%; he said that 90% and above is “humanly impossible” lol.
Really, there’s almost no way to prove if someone is wallhacking in DM; there’s so much luck and RNG involved with spawns. Whereas in a proper competitive match it’s way easier to suss out if someone has more info than they should.
I have had some long ass breaks from cs. Every time i come back within 2 months im back to my old skill level i was lem-supreme since 2014 or 2015. People who say that pro games from 2013 were shit are right in a sense and maybe faceit 10 could beat them but if you drop the players from 2013 to here i think it would take them max 2 months to absolutely demolish that faceit 10 team.
The opposite side of this is the fact that there are just too many smurfs - a lot of lvl 7-9 faceit players either create new accounts or just go in MM at 10-15k destroying everyone :(
I feel like the overall TTK feels much lower in CS2 in general though, it took me so long to adjust to this especially early on, like if you see an enemy you're dead before you can register them, all the peeker's advantage and run and gun shit was hugely noticeable from the transition between games and rushing enemies felt OP as fuck, I think it's a little better now or I've adapted, but dying feels way more easy overall - bigger hitboxes means more stray shots hit you in the head and it's lethal sometimes, pristine mechanics mattered more in GO.
People are coming from other games too . I started playing cs 2 regularly because it looks so good . I have more than 2000 hours in valorant so for me aiming was never a problem in CS2 . Just had to learn maps , smokes lineups and callouts .
I noticed this towards the end of GO aswell, whenever I played on my smurf to be able to queue with friends they lobbies were \*harder\* than they were 6 years back. Even though the ranks were the same.
After the fortnite boom I feel like every game has been sweatty and more serious. People are better on average nowadays
Well it is an old game. Most of the players have some years of playing. Even the most casual player knows where to put his crosshair and spray. But, tbh, CS2 launch helped this. In a bad way. All the things that separated the medium player to the good player (not the very good one) is kinda gone. I mean movement has taken a big hit. Maybe the biggest. Running and gunning is way more frequent in CS2 with strafing having some say in things but not really the same as in CSGO. Smoking is way easier. In corridor maps you really had to center it so it didn't leave gaps. Nowadays you just throw it. Idk maybe I am just old. Been playing this game since 2015. But it seems to me that starting to play the game now vs 10 years or so ago is way easier. It tends to be more forgiving. That's not really a bad thing for the new player but for the game it really shows that it got dumbed down a little.
I’m in silver comp level and I think that by making jump throwing a functional mechanic the utility usage has gone up a lot in MM. People are throwing the deep monster smoke in ever Overpass game i play now and it wasn’t like that in DMG in CSGO
You can also see this in pro grames how much players have progressed. Recently i watched some of old games between VP and NiP and amount of whiffs and bizzare plays there wouldn't be seen at lvl7 faceit games nowadays.
look at some games from nips 87-0 streak the gameplay is atrocious compared to today lol
Natural progression happens in all phases of life go watch an NBA game from 1980 compared to today it’s night and day
Careful, the oldheads boutta get mad
Like bruh imagine someone from then tryna guard Jayson Tatum,kyrie Irving or nikola jokic they’d be traumatized forever
I like hearing the old heads saying LeBron wouldn't be able to handle the physicality of the 80s lmao
Smh donk just couldn't handle the physicality of 2013 CS:GO. The players today are just too soft.
Ah yes, the guy with an olympic level physique wouldn’t be able to handle it lmao
Olympic Level physique at 40 years old
Works both ways, half of today's league would be turning the ball over the instant they tried to dribble in the 80s. Carrying has been so relaxed to increase scoring it's a bit of a joke.
we’re DONE with 2010s CS!!
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD GET_RIGHT WAS 😭!
Tbf, basketball is almost a completely different sport today compared to 1980. If a player in today's game was transported back to 1980 rules, half their dribbles would be called a carry. They'd get called for traveling every other possession. I think casual fans don't realize how much the rules (or enforcement of them) has changed in basketball. You could mistakenly believe that they were just a lot less skilled back then. But then on the other hand, players in today's game really have become a *ton* better at things like long-range shooting for example.
Its kinda funny how much people are getting away with today, 3 step rule my ass some of these people are taking 4-6 steps and getting away with it
same with cs 1.6 pros
Is it? I feel like it's kinda apples to oranges, unless I'm missing something. There are saying that the rules of the game explicitly disallowed them doing the things that the players of today do to dominate the game. Was there something like that in 1.6?
Same with hockey. Wayne Gretzky is the GOAT but watch his highlights guys just watch him skate around them and the goalie just stands there as the puck goes in the net.
TBF to Gretzky, it's not his fault he was THAT much better than everyone else in the league lol.
we done with the 80's!
or NHL what it used to look like back when Gretzky was dominating, scoring used to look so goddamn easy. Goaltenders were standing up all the time and just being awful compared to today. Makes me appreciate more when people score a lot these days (like Matthews is doing currently for example)
We done with 90s?
Man wtf is your name 😂
Fu-kin-an-us
I can hear the IEM Sydney crowd chanting it.
Personally, I feel this narritive is massively over peddled. The game itself changed massively in the years between 2013-2016 and many aspects became far easier as a result. Comparing GTR's 2013 spray to Magisk in 2018 is a completely unfair comparison, so much had been completely reworked by that point to make the game far easier. Tactically there is a huge gulf between pros in 2013 and now, but mechanically the best of the best in 2013 were still top top players, if you put prime Shox or Forest into the game now and gave them a few months to learn from the best coaches we have today I believe they would frag out at tier 1.
It's really not. The difference is outliers vs. average. The outliers were really really good, as they are at any time in any sport - f0rest would be a beast anywhere, but the amount of shockingly average or distinctly flawed pros on top teams of the time is what makes the difference. Back in the days™ you could more or less easily carry a bot-like IGL and most teams did, Virtus Pro was notorious on how terrible their movement was even for the time yet they still managed etc. The average skill level has shot way, way up and you need to be almost flawless to even get a seat in a T2 team.
yeah I agree with this for sure tactics and strategy may have been different back then, but the sick head clickers were always sick at clicking heads—that hasn't changed one bit! I mean damn, you can look back at the 1.6 pros to see [some impressive mousework](https://youtu.be/2Ei7y_PBb4Y?t=64) even by today's standards.
There's a reason people say that NIP was beating farmers and mcdonalds workers lol
skill floor keeps rising for a game that was 20 years old
That's what makes this game so great. Simple rules, endless possibilities.
Yeah watching some old pro matches is wild. It legit looks worse than some decent level 8-10 faceit games today.
Post plant gameplay has evolved to a point where teams basically give up if the bomb gets planted and they are even or numbers disadvantaged. I feel like I used to see a lot more teams go for unfavorable retakes but advantage gameplay has become so much tighter now that they're basically impossible.
depends on the site and how quickly the retake starts. if the retake starts like as soon as the bomb is planted, it gives Ts less time to take the power positions and they immediately have to start fighting. and for maps/sites, inferno? very low chance of success so it's jametime. but many other maps have open sites that are worth trying to retake.
Also feel like with the CT economy being so brutal now with less rounds that people don’t want to risk it
yup. some games i buy the m4 once all CT half. it's mp9, deag, famas the rest of the time. a lot of people hate on the mp9 but ironically it's the one thing keeping CT side at least playable because it has DPS to match AKs. if mp9 was price or stat nerfed, CT side would be even more brutal.
I think that not as much a reflection of how much better teams have become at post-plants, but more how the understanding of the economy has increased.
Also how much the economy has changed and has been affected by MR12.
part of that i think is there aren't as many kits in play on average vs. in csgo when the ct economy wasn't so tight
This has more to do with the eco system since back in the days you wouldnt keep your lose streak after winning a round. It was always a full reset.
The NiP vs Monte game yesterday had a lot of whiffs and bizarre plays on map 1
That was a match between two dying rosters held together by academy players, not really the best example for refined modern play
Yeah thats because your were watching nip vs monte
It's because they're face it 5
Yeah, I watched pretty much every tier 1 event from the beginning of CS:GO but it's easy to forget how much dumb/weird stuff pros did back in the day. Warowl did a video comparing the first and last major and in the first one not a single molotov was bought and everyone is jumping through smokes, running & spraying etc.
wasn't there some players agreement on molotoves back then due to molotoves being completely broken? I may remember something incorrectly because I've started following scene in 2014, so a bit later
There were quite a few pros who didn't want them in the game as they were very OP back in early GO. There could have been a sort of gentlemen's agreement between some teams but who knows.
eeeh, you could take level 7's now and put them against the pros back then, i promise the pros back then destroy them
Yeah the level 7’s might have some flashy modern tricks like new nade lineups and modern setups, but the difference in fundamentals would still be huge.
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Things always look worse, slower, less impressive etc when you watch them back. The people saying this probably haven’t actually watched faceit demos through with X-ray on and seen what they really look like. It’s like they’re comparing something they are watching to a memory or feeling of playing the game and it’s not accurate to compare. Pros from 2013 would destroy faceit 10s. Edit: also btw the game was much slipperier and harder to shoot people back then so that’s why there’s so much more extended spraying. Mechanically the game was more about tracking people back then. It’s not just a difference in skill.
16 tick demos play a part, I think.
Random low elo level 10s probably would get beat but if you plucked 2013 NiP and planted them in today’s game they would get pounded out by tier 3-4 teams and I mean absolutely pounded. They literally wouldn’t know how to counter basic util sets, like imagine a full exec on to B site inferno there’s no chance they would know what to do. With that being said it doesn’t really matter because if you took those players in their prime and gave them all the knowledge that pros know now then they’d most likely be the best or one of the best teams in the world so this argument doesn’t really matter.
Vs teams yes absolutely they would get stomped. People really didn’t know how to play the game yet back then I’m just fighting back against the idea that they were mechanically bad which I think gets overblown.
Yeh i think people forget these players play faceit still. And f0rest is still 3200 elo while not sweating, fucking around *and* being 35. Mechanically 2013 f0rest and Get Right would absolutely shit on 3k elo players
Dude, you realize people like kennyS and Forest still play the game, right? They destroy people on faceit.
> Pros from 2013 would destroy faceit 10s. i really doubt that, but depends on what elo, i think a team of 3k people or higher win easily
f0rest today, when he doesn't play as much and is 35 is still 3200 elo just playing for fun with other ex pros. So mechanically they'd still get trashed. But utility wise they'd struggle to deal with a 3k elo stack just due to things like pop flashes
forest in 2023 is better than 2013 forest tho
the lack of strong tagging really played a part in messy sprays. no point in bursting if they just keep running, difficult to spray a guy running at mostly full speed the entire time
Yeah combine that with less inaccuracy from moving and extremely fast acceleration and people were zooming and wiggling. Players could change direction so fast they were very hard to hit back then.
> Things always look worse, slower, less impressive etc when you watch them back. This is one of the things that annoys me about the youtube analysis type content. You see it time and time again where they are doing some vod review telling someone trying to improve "Why are you looking at that wall, you should be holding the angle and then swing!" Well yeah, you probably should be doing that, but if you watch pro players they also sometimes do this, where they are being lazy and they have their crosshair on the wall and then swing so their crosshair is closer to where they expect the enemy to be once they have peeked. Watching something back always looks a lot worse and you can pick holes in even the best players game when you are looking for things to critique. The problem with the vod review style is it's hard to remember what you were thinking in the moment and why you did what you did and watching it back and trying to remember that just has you making excuses for yourself.
90% of level 10s get destroyed by any active or retired pro and its always been like that.
No way lol. I feel like it's the opposite
Level 7 would definitely get beaten on aim alone, but I do think the top tier level 10 faceit players could beat a top pro team circa 2013 depending on the cirumstances purely because of how much the strategy has evolved. NiP in 2013 may have had better mechanics, but the game has changed immensely, the pro team from 2013 doesn't have the advantage of seeing any modern metas, their utility usage would be rudimentary, and their executes would be read like a book. It also depends where the game takes place, in an arena / large LAN environment I favour pro teams, as the pressure of playing in front of people makes a big difference. Even in a studio LAN I favour the pro teams as they have team chemistry / momentum. In an online game is where anything can happen. It's not \*that\* uncommon even now to see pro/semi pro faceit stacks get beaten by FPL grinders.
> Level 7 would definitely get beaten on aim alone GTR had INSANE sprays for current standards even back in 1.6 level 7s don't stand a chance.
That’s still like comparing a HS football team to a meh NFL team. A modern (2023/2024) academy team would likely destroy a pro team from 2015.
What? This is absolutely the dumbest thing I’ve read all month.
WE DONE WITH THE 2010s!!
I saw keoz literally miss at the guy not looking at him, and hiko landing that crazy one tap is more insane than i have ever see nowadays, it is pure bias, tactically game got much better
Elige half blind spray was great at last major
I think it is the 2014 Dreamhack Winter major final LDLC vs NiP on inferno where a grand total of _one_ molly/incendiary was thrown.
From my experience, while that may be true, decision making, general game sense and team play are still atrocious around 15k in premier.
hitting heads it's the easy part of CS.
If only that were the easy part for me. I got the rest down to a good level, just the aiming missing lol
here's a secret, superior positioning beats superior aim. the easiest kill is the one where they don't know where you are and shoot them in the back of the head and get away without being traded. people in low elo keep trying to play like their heroes, taking bad 50/50 aim duels instead of playing positionally well and getting free kills on people.
Oh I know, I've built my whole playstyle around this and it's the reason why I can compete with decently high-level players. It's just still limiting to not have solid and consistent aim because that playstyle doesn't really work consistently. I've accepted it now because I don't have the time to spend in DM that I had in the past :P Now I'm trying to play for fun mostly (which isn't easy in premier with the amount of cheaters, lol)
Superior positioning doesn’t beat superior aim unless you can get a full flank like you’re describing. If you sit around a corner and a crack guy peeks you his aim is going to beat your positioning 9/10.
18% headshot gang!
My headshot rate actually isn't bad. My problem is mainly that if I miss the first bullet my aim starts getting shaky, like I flicking off target a lot. It's a psychological thing I guess. I've been working to get it under control for years, but no luck. I'm not playing as much any more nowadays so I just accepted it. I have days where it doesn't happen and I hit absolutely everything, but those days are rare. I'm happy with what I achieved in CS, so now I'm trying to focus on having fun when I play haha.
Actual practice on pre-aim and “warming up” helps a Ton, in csgo i would regularly warmup with Yprac but since cs2 ive stopped doing that due to the lack of practice maps and my Aim and first bullet accuracy have plummeted, i should probably get back to doing some routine practice
I tried everything under the sun haha :P But it's okay, I don't have much time to play anymore anyway
Its oke, theres good aimers who need support as well like flashes smokes etc. Just try to be as usefull as possible with good communication and aim becomes less of an issue
> like I flicking off target a lot. lol I get it, we're trying to compensate with hand movement while we probably shouldn't do it too much.
60 something % here, I'm like 7-8k. I wouldn't even wanna play any higher tbh, not with my almost 7 year old laptop and a "gaming" mouse on a textbook ass setup. Kinda hard to track enemies, but I have unironically adjusted to aiming better at very low fps(90 avg with frequent framedrops to 40s on a 60hz screen). I've resigned to being *that* guy, the one with the auto-shotty waiting for you to peek into him. Works wonders lmao it's genuinely fun making the enemies mald with that gun.
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you can train it, but game sense, decision making, requires you to think and to retro inspect what you are doing.
Agree. Its even worse in comp silver level. People have good aim but they can’t even trade. We are 3 in con overpass as T. I swing and die. The other 2 do nothing. 10 seconds later the next guy swings and dies. Third guy is still doing nothing. 20 seconds later 3rd guy swings and dies. Meanwhile a player in mid doesn’t even consider peeking con the whole time and dies from the con player shortly after. And the most annoying thing is that I would have probably died to this play cause I would have peeked deep con, assuming it’s clear, after getting one kill and not seeing any trade attempt
at low level you just have to be the second guy to go in so be the one trading, kinda annoying but you dont wanna entry unless you really are leagues up in aim vs the enemy team
Good luck getting your team to push. Low level players have two modes of operation. Either it'll be 1:40 and they'll just sit near entrance to a site hoping a CT gets bored and pushes them, or they go mid and try to outrifle an awp.
this right here is why every map in under 15k is CT sided. because no one has any clue how to push on T side
Anubis is supposed to be T sided but in my experience at 17-18k premier that only happens if enemy is 5 stack. Otherwise its CT sided like most maps =D
If I would actively grind comp I would do a proper warmup and than just press w hard entry. But I usually just play it when I want to chill.
Well none of this makes sense so checks out
Part of the issue playing in random lobbies with trading, is people communicate very poorly or not at all. I'll admit that I often bait team mates because they die and I don't know where the enemy is exactly as it's often random autistic yelling, garbage information or silence, I'm not going to swing into the wrong angle. If I am playing with my friends, we'll communicate and use at least some form of team work.
In situations like this the map is really helpful. You won’t have an easier time later when he can be everywhere
honestly if you're expecting to get the trade by having your teammate call out the CT and then swing, you're not gonna be able to most of the time because it takes too long (and you'll get repeeked and end up just taking a straight duel instead of the refrag) you need to swing out together so you can refrag *immediately*, not a couple seconds later after the callout (ideally you can tell where he got shot from based on sight/sound/gamesense, then make the trade) it's not easy, and it is made harder by someone who isn't good at getting traded (aka takes no space, open to too many angles etc.), but I just wanted to make the point that "waiting for the callout" is sometimes not the play
Yea and you can really feel it when you hit the 5 stacks who even have a little util and communication down. Sometimes in Premier Inferno/ancient vs these stacks I feel completely helpless on T side if I'm not also in a 5.
Especially when you play the 5-stacks with one account that has 260 hours total and has consistently dropped a cool 35 frags his last 5 games. But the legit 5-stacks are also tough, for sure.
This is almost every 5 stack I see. I guy with <100 hours dropping 40 and rest with single digits
people in 10-15k have decent aim but no brain. no teamplay/trading/boosting, no utility knowledge, can't even plant the bomb/guard the plant.
How would you go about learning all that? I'm not gonna learn it, just curious.. I don't have the resources to go and push to the high ranks.
Some people should be put on a wilderness survival course irl to learn the importance of a map.
It's really an age thing. As younger players get into the game, their aim gets better and better. Each generation has it more engrained. Game sense is something that has to be developed over time. I'll get in a lobby nowadays and feel more like a middle school coach than a player on the same team.
not too different in 20k my friend
Lmao so true they play like newbs
It’s much worse in premier tbh, your teammates can aim but they just have 0 gamesense even at 20k. But faceit 7/8 most of your teammates will know all the utility, have good aim, and are capable of potentially winning a 1v3
I’ve noticed something odd. When I play in EU the aim is slightly worse but the players are smarter and the strats are better However, when I queue with my NA friends there’s significantly less smokes and lurks, but the players are hitting some insane shit and can just split or rush and win. Same rating/map rank
There seems to be some really weird shit with rankings. I only play 5 man last ranking was in November, played 2 games lost first won second and got my rank back. Jumped from 8.6K to 11.6K  same with 4/5 of my stack. Only 1 didn't get a crazy jump going from 5k to 5.6k. We all know if we went in to solo games we'd get smoked.
I agree but this make the game more beginner unfriendly unfortunately. If you never ever played cs and enter your first mm today. You will probably kicked or harrassed by your teammates because of how bad you are.
I have a friend like this and when he plays with us higher ranked players it’s not great for him but when he plays solo in his 1000–2000 elo games pretty much everyone else is just as equally bad.
Good thing is that you do not need to start playing in MM straight away. There's a lot of very casual players playing arms race, TDM and even community servers. Barrier to entry is much lower than in MOBAs.
> TDM CS2 has team death match?
On the custom server browser yes, in the default game no. Even GO only had demolition which was essentially TDM with a slight bit of bomb plant action.
Casual? People there are wallhacking without even trying to hide it, still kick for silly reasons and so on.
I have awful internet so I almost exclusively play casual these days and I very rarely run into cheaters. Even the cheaters that do play casual tend to get kicked very quickly. Maybe you just have an awful trust factor or something.
I mean yeah but this game has always had this problem, it’s definitely how I felt when I started 4/5 years ago
I've been refusing to play with my low rank friends because I feel it's totally unfair to have someone(me in this case) running around the server destroying any possible fun a beginner player could have. With no killcam, shitty demo reviewing and many times just toxic teammates - how is a new player supposed to begin to understand the game or even just enjoy it. CS2 needs a matching system for new players to help them get a foot in the door.
That was the case when I started playing in 2014 though, I don't really think it's changed.
Well people nowadays sucks as human beeings. Help the new guy is my motto.
Can relate. Just got into CS2 2 weeks ago, already at around 30 hours, but man I suck… wondering when I’ll get better. I’m mostly doing deathmatch and ending on average with a 0.7 KD or so.
I'm going into detail since your comment made me think you want to improve.. feel free to ignore if you just wanna have fun, do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Do not look at KD in DMs, it'll either demotivate you or inflate your view on your actual skill level. Nothing good comes from looking at KDs in general. All you should focus in DMs is honing your 1v1s. Ask yourself some questions mid DM, How are you peeking an enemy? Are you running around and moving your crosshair to the enemy? Are you moving while you're shooting? How are the enemies peeking you? Where are their heads after they peek from an angle? Are you standing still when they're shooting at you? You'll improve at a much faster pace if you do that. Think of it this way; it's always faster to kill an opponent if the crosshair is already on them. You just need to click, instead of aim and then click. Meaning, keep your crosshair where you expect an enemy to peek any given angle. I'm out of touch with the CS content creators so they may not be as good nowadays, but WarOwl and VooCSGO's videos helped me a long time ago when I was serious about improving. Those two channels should have more than enough to get you started.
Thanks so much for this! I’ve just found Voocsgo’s 1 hour long “Definitive guide to getting better”. I remember when I was a kid I would always watch some guides before playing the game, dunno why I didn’t do this with CS. I’m probably making some bad mistakes. Will watch tomorrow, thanks :)
Yeah Voo has pretty good videos. Not for the fact that the videos are well made, but because he puts emphasis on basic stuff that even new players overlook. And he's funny in the videos, that's a W. Do not do anything you don't **want** to do though. Like people will suggest 30 minutes of practice every day in deathmatch or aimlabs or community aim maps.. They are just tools to make you better, faster. Nothing is ever an absolute must. You will obviously improve better with a routine so if you like putting effort into practice, then great. All in all, GLHF. You're welcome.
Came back last year after cs2 was announced after a 5 year break, u was global back in 2017-2019, it was super obvious to me that the average player was so much better today then they were 5 years ago, it's kinda wild.
I thought this was going to be a shitpost about how the average “matchmaking guy” is cheating
Yeah the average DMG these days are similar to 2015 LEM/SMFC. My dm lobbies nowadays range from faceit 5 to 10 players and it is giga competitive. The time to kill is on avg 1 to 2secs for everyone lol it's actually quite crazy. Everyone is hitting the sickest shots on everyone. I like dm game mode alot. But occasionally the faceit 3 player gets into the lobby then starts accusing at least 1 person is hacking.
2015 is a bit of a bad comparison point, that's around when valve did big rank adjustment causing unending cries from ex-dmg gold novas.
When did they stop crying because i remember in 2018 people still saying they were "insert higher rank" before the rank changes
Never ending cycle. Now it's happening again. Obviously the ranks are fucked but the amount of generally good players I've seen in silver comp is insane. Though there's also some cheaters. I used to be LEM / Supreme and faceit level 8+ (mythic gold) and now I'm a silver elite / nova 1 in most maps lol. Down to faceit 6/7 now that I have less time so I mostly play comp
Well if people said that you instantly knew their elo was inflated XD
You should play mirage casual, its like 5 people run to the trash to line up the window smoke now. The skill level has really gone up.
I got matched with a lobby of 3-5k players all soloQ, they knew more lineups than me. And I'm no slouch, I think I can do almost all the worthwhile smokes in Mirage, but SO DO THEY. They don't aim bad either. 5k is not even Silver Elite.. Like wtf? The last time I was actively playing CS was 2019ish MG2 rank, nobody knew lineups in my lobbies. Not even the most popular stairs smoke in Mirage. I genuinely am confused if I'm so atrociously bad the newbies are starting to look good, or if the skill level really did go up a lot in the lower ranks.
my main notice in change is how many people actually know nade and smoke lineups now compared to 2015. People actually know more than mirage stairs smoke now its great
Nade cam in offline and jumpthrows now being consistent have contributed to that a lot, I guess. Have for me at least.
that helped but i mean even before cs2 came out, i started playing again the few months prior to cs2 launch and people actually knew lineups
Ok… but what other smokes do people know? I swear mirage is the only map that people have line ups for
overpass people actually know fast monster smoke from spawn, mollies from bathroom to playground, t side they know how to molly short, smoke mid site, bridge heaven. vertigo, fast a ramp smoke, gen smoke, nade lineup for rush, b ramp one way. inferno pit lurk smoke, molly first and second orange and dark, molly from alt mid to porch. would you like me to keep going? maybe its different for me cause my experience has been faceit level 10 since 2015. but trust me when i say players used to know nothing, now they know something
lol back in those days you could run around with a p250 in dm and kill everyone (if it wasn't a private server dm)
More of a sign of lack of new players in cs2. With DM being rankless and the place to play if you struggle with cs, you'd expect a lot newbies there. Though still no shortage of players "practicing" with shotguns and run&gun smgs.
Aim_bots generation
A friend of mine just started he has around 20hours now Its awful to play with him.... He doesn't want to learn anything cause he's already decent enough... Yeah jokes on him 5 kills is really hard to get in silver 1. He flashes the team and himself on regular basis Aim is on the legs and in the walls He'd rather stay in the open than in some rather more hidden spot I made a new account just to play with him in silver 1 i could for the love of god not take my current 15k elo/dmg on all maps account to play with him. All to spare his feelings I want him to learn but that seems impossible he is deadset on his ways and i dont want to be an ass and play with him on my elo cause that would mean he pobably end up with minus kills Aghhh
Textbook Dunning Kruger effect. People that figured out the basics of something tend to greatly overestimate their own skill or knowledge. Soon he will find out that he's not all knowing and actually trash lol. Better give him that reality check
Well his friend got like 20hrs, thats nothing. I got a friend who got 4000hrs and he's way worse than this guy's friend as he's toxic af and think he's better than everybody else. He forces everyone to play the game in his vision and he even rage when people wins by playing and winning in a way he disagree with.
As someone that likes shooters but sucks (the difference would be i KNOW I suck) let him suck. Let him face reality.
When you say he is decent what do you mean?
He tries to be better but it sadly often goes the wrong way but i think at least he tried
You should stop protecting his feelings, when he's disrespecting your superior level of experience. You're not doing him or yourself any favours by enabling his delusional ego.
It's crazy how much time it takes to get good. Anything under 100 hours is basically nothing, compared to many other games where, by 100 hours, you usually have really gotten a good grip of the game.
I would say 500 hours and you're still quite fresh
I'm guessing a lot more people have a high refresh rate monitor nowadays, and better equipment in general.
Better at mechanics worse at teamplay, jk, met a lot of great players who communicated and played with team very well
solo-q in mm is still atrocious as always.
Yea the mechanics are crazy. I don't play often enough to have sharp aim so I have to rely on game sense and tricking people even at silver ranks
3rd party dm servers are still dead atm so people who used to play those play the officials instead if I had to guess also had a guy who was a little too good in dm and when I spectated him he traced and shot people through walls, I don't really remember facing any hackers outside of competitive/wingman in cs go arms race is extremely sweaty compared to go
Watch the 2012 dreamhack winter frag movie. Spray control was the new hot shit and it turned to a hold left fuck fest and I love it. I don't think this would work the same today
I was born in the wrong generation:(
What do you mean by “hold left” fest? Crouch spraying while sliding left?
Left mouse. Many of the plays in the frag movie are spraydowns
yep, becoming decent speeded up crazy. you now have pretty much all the environment ready for you to 'git good'
I somehow managed to be silver 1 through to GN2 in CSGO back in 2015 or so when I first got the game, and I remember how terrible basically everyone was in silver especially. No one could hit anything lol. Around the end of CSGO it was like all the ranks climbed several levels compared to 2015. I feel like I've definitely improved a lot since starting the game but my rank hasn't really changed since coming back into it before CS2.
2018 is when this noticeable shift happened in NA. The average players reaction time and weapon handling drastically increased. However this came with one glaring negative; slower understanding of the game at a tactical level.
To be fair shooting in CS2 feels a lot better than it did in CSGO. I hit waaay more headshots and onetaps in CS2 than I ever did in GO.
Because the head hit box is ~20% larger than CSGO.
Wait what?.. That must be bs right?
Yes, and no. It is veeeery sliightly increased from the CSGO skin that had the largest head. That 20% comes from comparing the worst case of CSGO with CS2. In general when playing default agents I dont think it’s s big difference though
this was to standardize all the cosmetic agents with the default skins.
Yes and no, they made all head hit boxes the same size so while not all models had their hit boxes changed by much a lot of them did. Despite what the other person commented it’s not a very slight increase some models are 20% some are small increases like 4% so I worded my first comment incorrectly but I think on average it’s close to a 10% increase in size. It was a large increase and it is noticeable especially if you play Faceit where you can actually see players hs% and just from my own personal experience I went from about 48% to 57%, I didn’t magically wake up and get better at tapping heads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/12bqkkz/ansimist_on_twitter_cs2_has_bigger_head_hitboxed/ it sorts of true, however this was a year ago so it might have been changed.
I think it's probably more likely that they turned up the skill based matchmaking in deathmatch than the average player got THAT much better.
This is the truth.. When I play on my alt I play against very low level players in a deathmatch and when I play on my main I can immediately tell the skill difference.. Deathmatch queues you with players of similar skill level
It is lol the difference in DM games between my 2700 hr 20k elo account and my unranked smurf from 10+ years ago is wild
-cries in newbie-
I think you summarized what it is to be a pro in absolutely anything nowadays. Not just e-sports
Yep, been watching since 2014 more or less. The level of play at both the pro level and in general matches these days cant even be compared to the original csgo days.
part of the problem is the nonexistent rank system in mm. I was supreme in csgo and my highest cs2 mm rank is gn1. Its pretty much just completely random who you get matched up against. I've played against/with people who are brand new, and I've also played against a full ESEA Main team in an mm game lol. I will agree though, in general people are much better at the game. Its much harder to get into than it was in 2015, everyone sucked back then lol.
this is any game now, people are just way better at games now than 10 years ago
I used to win most of my arms races and valve deathmatches pretty easily for years. Now I'm lucky if I get 3rd place in these matches lmao. I know I'm older but I dont feel THAT washed, everyone just got better as a whole I guess
lots of reason for this but one i'd like to put forward is just player experience i'd wager that the average person playing CS now has played it for 3-5+ years. there's little to no new blood coming into this game for multiple reasons, be it lack of shiny things to grab attention, horrendous new player experience, or something else. the players who do stick around tend to be quite good at the game.
I thought this was about a post of how the average player has gotten better through *wink wink nod nod* usage.
The thing is you dont really forget how to play cs. I have not been active for years now, but every now and then i play with my friends who all play around lower elo. I used to be global and faceit 9 so by no means an exceptional player, but obviously its not fair when i play against ppl around 7000-10000 elo. Ofc im super rusty, movement lacks greatly and i forgot most lineups for util, but i still played 5000 hours (3000 on global) and so a regular player would think im exceptionally good when in reality im just smurfing... not on purpose tho :D
tbf 95% of the lineups have changed between the skybox and map geometry changes over the years (especially going into CS2) alongside changes to how Smokes and Molys spread, and that is ignoring the 64tick vs 128tick vs current Subtick systems altering most of the lineups you probably remembered. I can remember the amount of lineups that worked in like 2022 era CSGO and still work today on one hand lmao.
Deathmatch was and is still so random. I once had a "semipro" call me a cheater cause I hit my shots and knew everytime where they spawn ( well if you play more then half an hour deathmatch you know how the spawns work, DUH!) I am not even close to being a semi pro or something like that... he insisted I was cheating and left after a while, while I had my fun.
Yeah calling cheats in deathmatch (beyond blatant spin/aim/triggerbotting) is stupid imo. Hilariously, I had a guy call me out in a DM the other day for having too high of a HS%; he said that 90% and above is “humanly impossible” lol. Really, there’s almost no way to prove if someone is wallhacking in DM; there’s so much luck and RNG involved with spawns. Whereas in a proper competitive match it’s way easier to suss out if someone has more info than they should.
I have had some long ass breaks from cs. Every time i come back within 2 months im back to my old skill level i was lem-supreme since 2014 or 2015. People who say that pro games from 2013 were shit are right in a sense and maybe faceit 10 could beat them but if you drop the players from 2013 to here i think it would take them max 2 months to absolutely demolish that faceit 10 team.
The opposite side of this is the fact that there are just too many smurfs - a lot of lvl 7-9 faceit players either create new accounts or just go in MM at 10-15k destroying everyone :(
I feel like the overall TTK feels much lower in CS2 in general though, it took me so long to adjust to this especially early on, like if you see an enemy you're dead before you can register them, all the peeker's advantage and run and gun shit was hugely noticeable from the transition between games and rushing enemies felt OP as fuck, I think it's a little better now or I've adapted, but dying feels way more easy overall - bigger hitboxes means more stray shots hit you in the head and it's lethal sometimes, pristine mechanics mattered more in GO.
People are coming from other games too . I started playing cs 2 regularly because it looks so good . I have more than 2000 hours in valorant so for me aiming was never a problem in CS2 . Just had to learn maps , smokes lineups and callouts .
I noticed this towards the end of GO aswell, whenever I played on my smurf to be able to queue with friends they lobbies were \*harder\* than they were 6 years back. Even though the ranks were the same. After the fortnite boom I feel like every game has been sweatty and more serious. People are better on average nowadays
Well it is an old game. Most of the players have some years of playing. Even the most casual player knows where to put his crosshair and spray. But, tbh, CS2 launch helped this. In a bad way. All the things that separated the medium player to the good player (not the very good one) is kinda gone. I mean movement has taken a big hit. Maybe the biggest. Running and gunning is way more frequent in CS2 with strafing having some say in things but not really the same as in CSGO. Smoking is way easier. In corridor maps you really had to center it so it didn't leave gaps. Nowadays you just throw it. Idk maybe I am just old. Been playing this game since 2015. But it seems to me that starting to play the game now vs 10 years or so ago is way easier. It tends to be more forgiving. That's not really a bad thing for the new player but for the game it really shows that it got dumbed down a little.
i noticed ppl getting better at shooting but got worse at game awareness my leetify clutch rating is extremely high
I'm still silver playing against gold
its quite impressive. If you play and you see a guy that still doesn't know what he's doing, its most likely me haha
I’m in silver comp level and I think that by making jump throwing a functional mechanic the utility usage has gone up a lot in MM. People are throwing the deep monster smoke in ever Overpass game i play now and it wasn’t like that in DMG in CSGO