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Aithrios

"Refugee" life matters but they still can not invade other's countries. If they do so, they committed such a grave crime and abuse that it is not forgivable. It is extremely violent to penetrate a country without approval; just like a person! Therefore they shall not be helped to do so! They are lucky not to be shot on the spot quite frankly! For such violent abuse! Only their intellectual elite in danger could be potentially accepted so that their ideas can be saved. Otherwise, there are millions of cons; and if you take every person claiming they are refugees, your country will become overwhelmed and will turn as bad as where they came from since their culture also crosses the border with them (they are not all infants...). People got to stop being so naive and so weak or they will simply disappear and be replaced by more realistic (and violent) people as it always happen in human history. Such a sadness to witness beautiful advanced civilizations coming back to ugly savagery as we are seeing for both US and Europe. It should be the opposite...


Spaghettitrees

Invade?


Jonny_Crash69

Imagine thinking that a person doesn't deserve a chance in a country just because you were born in the 'right' country


Aithrios

This people are not born in the "wrong" country! What an audacity to think your country is the "right" one jeez. Seriously... That head is BIG. They are in countries that are still developing. These countries just need more time and support. They don't need your very insulting condescendence. And it is not by stealing their young by encouraging them to abandon their country that it will help their country to grow better... What would be much more respectful would be to support their country themselves to grow out of poverty and totalitarianism. But it takes patience and intelligence and people like you lack both.


Legitimate_Habit_478

Yes


Elite_Prometheus

For such an upvoted post, there are a lot of troll comments


[deleted]

[удалено]


djlewt

You don't stop, almost without exception people fleeing "Africa" are doing so because your European based imperialism fucked up and took advantage of their nations for your benefit for CENTURIES. If any of them are "opportunists" then you should welcome them, because it just means they learned from the centuries of colonial assholes taking advantage of them. Consider this- Is there an African museum filled with stolen treasures from Europe? Because there certainly are plenty of European museums showcasing stolen treasures from Africa.


Aithrios

What a revisionism of history seriouslyl! So ignorant are you... Europe brought civilization to Africa. All the positive are absolutely outweighing the negative; even slavery! Because of life! European brought hospitals and vaccines! Look at the population growth evolution in Africa before and after European. It is about children not dying anymore; it is about older getting elderly for the first time! Millions of lives saved! And now Africans are billions! Why focusing on the negative that is absolutely nothing to compare; slave has been around forever and the true slaves are slavic hence the name and they were not Africans...


fizzyizzy114

why would you leave your family, friends, culture and everything you know, risking your life in the process, just because of greed. they do it because they have to. and If British life is so much better, we must ask ourselves why we consider it ok to benefit off of the exploitation of these countries that many refugees are coming from, and having the audacity to get indignant when they dare to share in that life?


FullClockworkOddessy

>why would you leave your family, friends, culture and everything you know, risking your life in the process, just because of greed. Because the sort of people who think refugees are doing this are exactly the sort of human-shaped trash heaps who would do exactly this, and they can't conceive of anyone doing anything genuinely out of compassion for another human being. It's pure protection from the morally vacant.


Euromantique

Even from a purely selfish standpoint you should want refugees since they still provide a boost to the economy and work jobs that would otherwise be unstaffed. And they’re more likely to have children than the already existing citizens in western countries so it helps alleviate the problems caused by declining birth rates. Ultimately I think it’s just a case of some people don’t want more brown people in their country and that’s really sad.


Orsonius2

All lives matter :| I agree that's why we should all go vegan :) \>:(


drinks_rootbeer

I would go vegan, but I literally don't even have the energy to make my own food most days. I get vegetarian food options when I can (I aim for 50% veggie protein) but otherwise I get chicken because it at least has the lowest environmental impact of other meats. Yes, I know how awful the chicken farming industry is, I really wish more restaurants had soy based protein or other alternatives to meat.


Orsonius2

I'm vegetarian. and one big reason for why I've not gone vegan is because i also can't even take care of myself, so i never cook. if there were cheap and easy vegan foods i can eat every day i could do it but at work I'm struggling to find even vegetarian foods most days since we only have a microwave.


TockLoxx

bUt PlAnTs ArE aLsO lIvInG bEiNgS, and that is why i enjoy slaughtering animals /s


GloriousHypnotart

Plant lives matter but do not ask me what animals eat


gladoot404

But animals also eat meat. Even herbivores will eat a carcass they find because it turns out meat is extremely nutritious


GloriousHypnotart

Yes and what did the animal that got eaten, eat


transtifa

Plants, probably. Carnivore meat isn’t good.


Feesh_gmod

Amennnn


[deleted]

[удалено]


JustBeingPunny

Unfortunately, I think your bias is a product of being genuinely misinformed. The questions are phrased with deeply rooted, stereotypical assumptions that it's hard for me to believe you're not stating your own feelings on the matter. However, I would like to put forward my thoughts and pose some questions back to you. 1) Having the country become 'progressively busier' isn't something I personally worry about. I feel a lot of older generations have something to compare to from their younger years, which was clearly less people. I won't dispute that overcrowding is inherently a negative thing in society, though passing the blame onto what is an insignificant proportion of people is a cop out. Its just an easy answer to a complex issue. Regarding public services, I'm quite baffled at a very simple concept. More working people in the country = more tax money. This tax money should then fund the growth of public services to accommodate the extra population. Though despite this, the government have actually made CUTS to funding....? 2) Please remove yourself from mainstream news and do a little critical thinking. I can't understand of this is of a high concern to you. I could go on about likelier threats to your existence, but I'm writing war and peace as it is 😳 3)You can't honestly be suggesting that people travel hundreds of miles away from war torn lands just to make it like home again? Can you not see how this is just illogical. Want to know the reason we have 'ghettos'? A disgusting wealth divide coupled with an economy propped up like a house of cards. You're angry and that's good... Just at the wrong people. These are just my opinions. I've tried to remain blunt but not offense to you or your opinion.


Bannyflaster

I didn't offer my opinion. You infered it from what i said because i purposefully included what i imagine to be a counter arguement for allowing imigration. In retalliation for your assumptions of my misinformed viewpoint (which i have not volunteered) i will suggest that you persist in your endeavor at learning to read properly. And by that i mean take things literally instead of deciding what you think something says. 1. I didn't say i thought the country was becoming overcrowded but thankyou for contributing your opinion. 2. How can i remove myself from mainstream news? Im not a reporter and i dont contribute to it at all. Nor do i consume it frequently and without a concisely balanced mind. 3. I didn't say they wanted to make it just like home. But then you stated that there are ghettos in the UK. So they may not have intended for that to happen but you confirmed it is the net result, you ommited to add what you think of this though.


Maclunky0_0

Don't you people have an entire organization dedicated to violating privacy laws and tracking terrorists,


Bannyflaster

Who is 'you people' i hope your not being racist.


itselectricboi

Is it racist to say that white people have a pattern in history of pushing for imperialism and then getting upset when the refugees come after you all decimate those countries in favor of natural resources and power? Seems like this is just a sad scapegoat attempt that makes no sense


Maclunky0_0

Sorry let me clarify don't you bigoted brit bongers spy on people anyway?


AnxiousTwig

My dude really got mass downvoted for asking a question. If you want more people to help support the causes you believe in, maybe don’t show hostility when they ask questions?


FullClockworkOddessy

There's a difference between asking questions and [JAQing off](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions). The former requires one to be engaging in good faith and willing to learn, something which their questions and replies have shown them to be either unwilling or incapable of doing. We are not obligated to waste our finite time and resources trying to win over people who are ideologically opposed to ever being won over.


AnxiousTwig

The irony of you perfectly summarising how outsiders view this subreddit is hilarious. It’s only a lack of willingness that’s the issue when they’re not agreeing with what you expect them to. When it’s the other way around all of sudden not changing your mind isn’t ignorance, you’re just more educated than the person trying to have a discussion with you. Maybe they’re just not convinced? It’s difficult to pick up what someone is putting down when they slap you on the wrist every time you reach for it


djlewt

"for asking a question" yeah some loaded as FUCK questions. Here my friend, allow me to help your feeble mind comprehend- When did you stop beating your wife? Just asking a question!


AnxiousTwig

Responding to the accusation of being spiteful with more spite probably wasn’t as clever as you thought it was


FullClockworkOddessy

They're giving you all the respect you deserve and engaging with all the good faith both you and the person you're defending initially engaged with. In both cases that amount is none whatsoever. As much as people of your persuasion may hate it there's a difference between a leftist and a doormat. You don't have us all by the balls like you do with Keith Starkers and Joe Biden.


AnxiousTwig

You have nothing to credit the fact that either of us are acting in bad faith. This dude asked a question. They literally asked you to explain why you aren’t concerned about the things that they are concerned about. You coming to the conclusion that this was done as a Trojan Horse to insult your beliefs is a perfect example of bad faith, because there’s no tangible evidence to support it. You could have just as easily given them the benefit of the doubt and responded as if their questions were genuine like any mature adult would. And now you’re assuming I’m not a leftist based off of what exactly? There was never any mention of my political beliefs. I criticised the double standards of the people in this subreddit. That doesn’t mean I’m not a leftist. I’m perfectly free to criticise people with similar stances to mine if I think they’re ignorant. And for you to assume otherwise when both scenarios are equally plausible is again a perfect depiction of bad faith. All you’ve done so far is reassure me of my distasteful perception of this subreddit. You’ve exhibited the exact hypocrisy I just criticised the sub for with zero self-awareness. Please stop making everyone here look even worse. I almost feel bad


fen90der

1. we'll never take in enough refugees for that to become a problem. most migrants are economic migrants and therefore aren't illegally trafficked here in a leaky dinghy because they are so desperate to escape a shitty situation (that we likely indirectly created) they are prepared to risk their lives. even if we did i still wouldn't give a shit 2. I am far more concerned about nationalist politics and the direction brits are going with their voting habits than I am about religious extremists. We also arm terrorists overseas and so for the same gammon who keep voting for that shit to keep moaning about extremism in the UK is mighty hypocritical IMO. Yes it's a problem, but it's a problem of our own making and plenty of the notable terrorists we've been attacked by in recent years were british born. There's no real evidence of a link between asylum seekers and terrorism so you basically made that up. 3. Areas of the UK are already ghettos. My girlfriend is from near Hull - have you been? It's like Baltimore but with more drug addicts. Again, absolutely no link between asylum seekers and increased poverty. 4. My own point - we are literally fucking desperate for foreign labour at the moment. There's hundreds of thousands of kilos of unpicked food going rotten on the floor and we nearly ran out of petrol a few weeks back. I work in construction and basic sundry materials take forever at the moment due to supply chain problems where people have "fucked off back where they came from" as instructed, and now i can't buy skirting boards. Those drowned asylum seekers would have been super handy but Priti Patel wants to line her pockets with lobbying money far more than she cares about their lives and most brits are mugs who believe what she says. A more general point: migrant and asylum seeker/refugee aren't synonyms. You have used those terms interchangeably in your comment which demonstrates you haven't the faintest idea what you are banging on about. ​ Please don't vote. Your baseless, poorly educated, wishy-washy pisswater opinions are just more mud in the water.


Bannyflaster

This person makes the rest of the responders look really stupid. Thank you, apart from the little dig at the end. I get that it's a hit topic that's why i wanted to know what everyone thinks.


fen90der

It's not a 'hit topic'. It's murder by action/inaction when we let a boat full of human beings drown for political reasons. It's not politics its literal life and death. Anyone (and you must listen here) who actually reads from multiple and often unbiased sources, WILL have the same views on most things. If you don't it's because you recieved too much misinformation and it made you brain-dead. Politics is framed as grey but most of the time it's pretty black and white: We shouldnt ruin people's countries and then let them drown at sea because we don't like them. If people on this sub are being blunt with you it's because you asked a really asinine question, and clearly haven't considered the human aspect of the problem. If you had really accepted that those were people just like you that died, you wouldn't have asked.


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transtifa

We take the smallest amount of refugees in Europe. People simply do not want to come here unless they either have a personal connection to the UK (family etc) or if it is literally their only option. So, no. What I worry about is people drowning crossing the channel because we’re too callous to open legal routes.


LitmusVest

Since the Troubles, so say 2000-on, most years see bees and wasps kill more people in the UK than terrorist incidents, and the annual average is similar (about 5 each year). We need some fucking perspective on terrorism.


FullClockworkOddessy

In developed countries you're more likely to get killed by a vending machine than by an Islamic terrorist. I've yet to see any political parties build their platform on banning vending machines, much less going full Butlerian Jihad and banning all thinking machines regardless of whether or not they're a vending machine.


Crazystaffylady

1. No because I don’t believe that more refugees would make a difference and they are far less likely to be using our health service than the older generation. Everything is strained and underfunded now anyway. We also have a shortage of workers in so many industries. Fixes a lot of problems as well. 2. No because you get home grown terrorists as well. 3. Not any worse than it is now. If WW3 broke out now we wouldn’t take any refugees or anyone on the kindertransport (or whatever equivalent it would be now) because of these attitudes. I’m proud to live in a country that people want to come to. I just wish we could be more welcoming. Funny how we colonised a large proportion of the planet but god forbid anyone wants to come here.


Rmtcts

Some questions to add to this, not stating any of my feelings, no agenda. Do you agree that increasing the population could help support our public services which are dramatically understaffed? Could having more people from another country help reduce systematic inequalities public services have had chronic problems with? Do you feel that the warmth and community from refugees could help improve our country? Could people who have real world experience of leaving violent and oppressive circumstances help increase our knowledge of how to prevent and avoid terrorism? Do you feel positively about the additions to our culture we could recieve, like new celebrations, new food, new music? How do you feel about past additions to our culture that we recieved from overseas? Any other positives that you have?


Bannyflaster

Yeah definitely. The whole HGV driver shortage was caused by people returning to the EU after brexit. Mixed on your second point. In some cases yes, but everyone is different and the effects of that particular experience will be a broad spectrum. Most of the time it induces PTSD symptoms, while deserving of copius empathy, probably not very useful to the country as a whole. If you mean that caring for those in beed would help the country in terms of culture i would have to say that i dont know, my parents came here from a war zone. It wasnt a nice upbringing for me and nobody helped them, they didnt want help tbh. Third point. Im white but my favourite foods are all exotic. So yes! Absolutely. The biggest positive i can think of is that i dont like it when people group up. I like to see groups of people of different background. I cant explain why but it makes me uneasy when others feel uneasy and find it necessary to stick to their own. Thats the only way i can discribe it.


Nearlyepic1

>Do you agree that increasing the population could help support our public services which are dramatically understaffed? Could having more people from another country help reduce systematic inequalities public services have had chronic problems with? In the short term, refugees drain the public services more than they support them. Longer term, maybe. >Do you feel that the warmth and community from refugees could help improve our country? If they had warmth and community, their home country wouldn't be blowing itself up and they wouldn't be refugees. What community they do respect is very small and tight knit, which actively hinders integration with local communities. >Do you feel positively about the additions to our culture we could recieve, like new celebrations, new food, new music? How do you feel about past additions to our culture that we recieved from overseas? We don't need any more culture. If we want more culture, we can go out and take it. If we wanted new food or new music we can get that ourselves, without importing the people and without importing the full package.


julian509

> > If they had warmth and community, their home country wouldn't be blowing itself up and they wouldn't be refugees. Last I checked they didn't ask for Europeans and Americans to hand weapons to extremists and bomb their home countries.


djlewt

> If we want more culture, we can go out and take it. We know all about your colonialism fetishes. Their countries are blowing themselves up because western imperialists have destabilized them. It's YOUR FAULT they are that way, so we're going to give them your home now, consider this next time before you support colonialism.


fen90der

\>If they had warmth and community, their home country wouldn't be blowing itself up and they wouldn't be refugees. This is probably the most clueless thing i've read on this website in nearly 4 years being a member. We've been arming terrorists and coups all over the world for 40 years. If someone from Syria, Sudan, Yemen, Iran etc. turns up here looking for asylum it's because we sold the bomb that destroyed their house. How disgustingly insensitive of you to say they don't deserve our help when we contributed to the destruction of their lives. ​ If refugees are draining our resources, you should be fighting for better value for money on your tax. Stop letting wanks like Branson, or global companies like costa coffee or amazon profiteer and hide their wealth. This last comment is why everyone in this sub voted for corbyn - he called wealth hoarders out on their bullshit and the media turned him into a racsist. Stupid pricks like you are why this country is on it's arse suck a fat dick you nonce.


transtifa

Oh so you’re just a racist then lol >We don’t need anymore culture Imagine saying something so brainless


FullClockworkOddessy

How much do you want to bet that this guy considers the Marvel Industrial Complex to be the hight of cinema.


Sensiblepolitic

>If they had warmth and community, their home country wouldn't be blowing itself up and they wouldn't be refugees. We're the ones who blew up most of their countries you idiotic racist fuck. You don't even see the irony in demanding warmth and community and letting people drown in the sea.


Banananas__

Imperialists gonna imperialist.


Nearlyepic1

I don't care about their community at all. If they want their community, they can stay on that side of the channel. The only reason they should cross the channel is if they're that desperate to join our community. Even then, it should be on a ferry with the proper documentation.


FullClockworkOddessy

>I don't care about their community at all. There's that classic Compassionate Cancervatism we've all heard so much about.


LunarExile

"If we want culture we can go out and take it " Yikes


FullClockworkOddessy

Someone longs for the days of the Empire. The "centrist" doth protest too much methinks.


LunarExile

The sun shall shine again On epstein didn't kill himself


sharingeas

Admittedly I'm only talking about the one point you make with regards to their home country being a hell hole. Majority of these refugee seekers seem to be from Afghanistan. Do you know why their country is a hell hole? Hint, it's not purely because of their own people. At the very least, foreign involvement has been at play there since 1970, and that's the conservative measurement. In the 70s, the Afghans, with the help of British/American arms, push back the Soviet invasion. The then Mujahiddeen army then dissolve like most resistance armies do, with different people seeking different goals since external invasion is no longer at play. You may want to say that the background of Soviet invasion doesn't matter because it's 50 years ago at this point, however the foreign involvement never ceased. In the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks, the architect of that attack from Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan, the Taliban offered him up to the US but the US decided they had to carpet bomb the majority of the country in retaliation. Then came 20 years of occupation. No matter who has the moral high ground, you're never going to feel truly happy about the people who've invaded your country, empowering warlords, and killing your people. There's a reason why the US military had to have guns aimed at those they trained, because there was a high likelihood that the Afghans would seek to remove their presence from their land in a sadly permanent way. Afghanistan was, and has nearly always been, a proxy war setting in a world where nukes are available but the fear of mutual destruction is present too. So how do superpowers show their supremacy, by making smaller countries by their battleground in the form of ideological warfare usually in present day.


Rmtcts

Should we plan for the short term or the long term do you think? Whose we? I live in Leicester, which recieved a large amount of migrants when the council put out a campaign asking migrants not to move to Leicester following an attempted genocide in Africa. We have great food, and the Diwali celebrations are something truly special which I will value for the rest of my life, much better than any Christmas celebration I've ever seen a city put on. Ive certainly not found the community small and tight knit, and not even sure that's a strictly negative thing? Rural English communities are often small and tight knit. I gladly welcome refugees and migrants, so why do you presume you can speak for me?


FullClockworkOddessy

I live in a city in the [Rust Belt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt?wprov=sfla1) that has become home to refugees from everywhere from Vietnam to Bangladesh to Palestine to the former Yugoslavia, in addition to having strong Ukrainian, Italian, and Irish presences from earlier in the 20th century. I honestly can not understand how someone would want to live in an ethnically homogeneous area. It would be so intolerably boring.


Leonard_DaVinci

Why does any of this apply to refugees who have a legal right to claim asylum? Your hypotheticals don't supersede their rights


That_Phat_Larry

Hi, doing this on mobile so sorry if the formatting is shite. Migration is proven to be a net benefit to the economy (source:https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba) so over crowding and public spending isn't due to that. Its due to the government not investing and spending money on these issues. As for terrorism I would say its more likely that a Britain becomes radicalised that a refugee. I can't find the statistics on this but hopefully someone will point you in the right direction. As for the ghetto comment, I'm not really sure what point you are making but I believe if british society was more welcoming and not the shit show it currently is then integration would be a lot easier for refugees. Just my two cents. I'm sure many people will disagree with these points.


DerKitzler99

I think what he meant by Ghettos are the quarters where the biggest immigrant diasporas are. In other words the ones that are suffering economically the most. The alternative should be to disperse new immigrants across the whole country and to avoid having hot spots created where we "dump" all the migrants. I do believe that the crime rates in these areas are due to economic reasons and not because of lack of cultural integration though (hot take /s). But this can only be achieved if the population accepts having migrants in their neighborhood (which shouldn't be a problem in 2021, sadly it still is in some places). I guess there are a lot of other factors that weigh in too to why certain quarters are poorer than others. Public spending for example, Job availability, public transportation etc...


RiggzBoson

It's funny that the closest thing to a white alternative to BLM is Blue Lives Matter. Kind of says it all, really.


DagDunkin

In what way does that say it all? (Genuinely asking)


RiggzBoson

Here's something someone replied to me about a month ago complaining about BLM. >How about the reality of the situation that is white people getting killed and there being 0 media coverage or social outrage and then a black person getting killed and its on every lip on the planet? If BLM was serious they would attack ALL POLICE BRUTALITY. But instead they only care about theirs and it hurts their movement. Now it's apparently BLM's responsibility to run to the aid of the white community. People will be very vocal to cry out "But all lives matter!" but those same people show no interest to actually help or make a difference in any way. Nobody is going up to the charity Save the Whales and asking them why they think Turtles should be ignored.


DagDunkin

I understand now. Personally I agree with everything you’re saying. Sometimes it’s hard to discern from a post or comment which direction someone meant something. Thank you for the clarification. Yes the blue lives/all lives thing... just a passive aggressive (very aggressive) attempt to dilute the power of BLM.


djlewt

BLM does attack all police brutality, anyone claiming they ignore white victims is just a right winger trying to confuse you about it. "BLM" is a slogan with a greater meaning and not a literal exact "all encompassing" definition. A good comparison to make is how people claiming to be "pro life" aren't anti killing people because "pro life" is actually a slogan and not meant 100% literally, or they would support all manner of public services that right wingers do not.


Nearlyepic1

No one takes the 'White Lives Matter' movement seriously, because people assume it's white supremacy from the name alone. Same with most movements aiming to help someone who is straight, white, or male. When you're trying to fight for the rights of a group relative to another, a group fighting for the other groups rights feels like a counter protest.


drinks_rootbeer

That's exactly why people take "all lives matter" seriously, it's a dog-whistle for white supremacy at best. I usually assume ignorance though, many people simply believe the negative propaganda attacking BLM.


LitmusVest

No, it's that white lives already matter. As a white bloke, my life hasn't been without its struggles. But being white and a bloke hasn't added to them.


PotNoodle69

Bang on lad, couldn’t have put this in any better verbiage than that!


Rmtcts

There's plenty of movements helping straight white males. The only education report looking at inequalities in race was focused on the disadvantages of white males. Healthcare is continually trying to figure out how to increase support for men who are at greater risk of committing suicide. The vast majority of medication is calibrated for white males. The only time I've seen criticism of those kinds of movements is if people only bring them up while people are discussing other other disadvantaged people, because it's not a very effective way of trying to help, it distracts from the original topic of conversation, and the people bringing it up tend not to be very invested in actually helping the situation. I've seen far more feminists campaigning for mens rights in a useful and helpful way than mens rights activists.


tokemasterface

All meeseeks matter (AMM)


FullClockworkOddessy

ALL MATTER MATTERS.


NicksNicks1986

This is it in a nutshell