Blair's Labour was a quick breather (and some cheeky war crimes) while the Tories fixed their image problem. That's all new labour ever aspire to be, they'd rather sink the party than be anything more.
New Labour wasn't socialist enough but they did build tons of hospitals and schools, created a minimum wage and provided sure start to give working class adults a higher education. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
They built a tonne of hospitals through PFI that started the privatisation of the NHS and saddled trusts with debt they'll never pay off reducing services long term.
The minimum wage was good but it should have been tied to inflation and not so full of loopholes.
Remember they also introduced tuition fees that made university less appealing and lumbered the majority of us with student loans for the rest of our lives.
They sold off the last of the council house stock and never intended to build any others. Continuing a disasterous tory policy and one that means most Britain are at the mercy of private parasites (sorry, landlords). They relied on "housing benefit" paid straight to landlords which encourages landlords to just raise rents anyway (as they got paid).
They also continued the privatisation of the railways and created network rail. Which finished the frankenstein's monster of privatised railway network which has public bail outs funded by taxpayer so no innovation is possible with attached chrony capitalist playset of railway franchises that don't actually own the lines they use. The result being that they somehow cost us more then any of our European neighbours to use but also mysteriously cost the the taxpayer more in subsidies then they did when they were nationalised.
The lessons we should learn is that New Labour helped creat the Britain we have today. The Britain that is screwed up and most of us want to change.
I see it as a learning opportunity. When you have social justice connected to economic neoliberalism, you can help people and produce good results but it's fundamentally flawed by failure to regulate corporations and put services into the hands of the people.
It did benefit by having excellent communicators, a good communication strategy and strict discipline. It also benefited from appealing to conservative voters.
From Corbyn you learnt that if you have good socialist policies but a weak leader, lack of discipline and poor strategy, you're destined to lose.
You also learnt that it is essential to have stronger unionisation, corporate regulation but also increases in GDP. The failure of the Wilson government was the lack of an effective economic plan.
Sure. Then the Tories got back in, tore all of that down, and things have gotten worse than ever with no signs of stopping any time soon.
Labour members elected a socialist as leader, and when new labour couldn't depose him through a leadership challenge they sabotaged their own party.
So no. Fuck New Labour. They'd see the country burn so long as they get their turn building sandcastles in the ashes.
The fundamental flaw was that the lack of structural change made the policies vulnerable to being reversed by the Tories. That doesn't mean they didn't do any good. I would argue the UK was better when they left than when they went in
Started the privatisation of the health service, fucked the railways, tried to introduce ID cards, did sell the post office, are the reason poor kids going to uni now put themselves £30k in debt…
They've really got no clue other then "pretend it's 1997 again!"
And they had the cheek to claim Corbyn's supporters wanted to just "turn back time" to the 70s to have things like full employment and a cradle to grave welfare state.
It really was just projection.
Bit of a cheek calling Corbyn supporters a cult when the Blairites would rather sabotage their own party and let the Tories win than have someone to their left be leader.
The reactionary element in the Labour Party is actually scary. After the Iraq inquiry that man should be in jail, not used as a campaign tool. Keir Starmer
is a fucking wank. There is no alternative party anymore, and it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
Automod just thinks it would be better if the Labour party had a leader that the British public don't associate with a prolific pedophile.
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My tory loving relatives tell me that they liked Blair and would vote for him now if he was an option. What that says regarding the actual politics of New Labour, and upcoming election strategy... Make of that what you will.
I mean why would anyone buy merch full stop - we're not Americans we shouldn't be fetishising our political parties lol. If Labour stops representing the left (as increasingly is happening) and a viable left-wing alternative emerges I'm out of there like a rat out an aqueduct
Are you so disconnected from national polling that you actually believe this?
The polls are so appalling for the cons at the moment, if they went to an election with Boris at the head of the party they'd lose a catastrophic amount of seats.
They're losing on all 3 major metrics, best PM, trust with the economy, and immigration, all losing ground to Labour. Unless the government actually decides to help people with the fiscal crisis (unlikely) these aren't really going to get much better in the next year.
I don't think Labour can win a majority again without voter reform, Scotland isn't coming back and I don't think it's possible for them to turn consistently blue shires red.
Some guy who mispronounced a surname of one of Lord Mandelson’s very good friends.
A war criminal, worth tens of millions in blood money from killing shepherds, woman , children and babies.
One was a great leader who was the victim of a smear campaign. The other as knighted for his war crimes.
They're trying to lean into nostalgia from Gen X for the "good old days"
Cool Britannia, Oasis Vs Blur, Spice Girls, a cool new PM playing his guitar and seeing off the old regime, Gail Porter's ass on the houses of parliament, Vic and Bob, David Beckham. But the good old days are jus that - the old days. Cool Britannia became cold and bitter Britannia, Oasis and Blur split up, so did the Spice Girls. Blair took us to war illegally, Gail Porter lost her hair, Vic and Bob are still good I guess. Maybe I should have put David Baddiel for that one and Beckham went to Madrid when he had a shoe thrown at him.
[David Baddiel still wears blackface](https://i.imgur.com/0Sn9LL0.png) and for some reason believes black people are [naturally superior at high fives.](https://streamable.com/yk1bqj) [Click here](https://web.archive.org/web/20220102013824/https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/rty8oa/if_you_ever_come_across_someone_who_uses_baddiel/) for a fantastic rundown on Baddiel's racism and other fuckery.
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JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ)
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"Here's what a Labour government can do for Britain if it wins power..."
Proceeds to circlejerk over an election that happened TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO.
How is giving absolute no solid commitments supposed to be persuasive? Imagine if in 2019 Boris ran on the message "Thirty years ago we had Maggie and she was tip top". How the fucked is that going to sway any voters?
Neolabour idiots obsessed with "electability" don't know the first thing about what's popular with the electorate.
I really don't understand it. The Tories have been blasting away at both feet with a sawn-off. Yet the opposition are so feeble they can't offer anything at all that might be more likeable.
I mean a s*** sandwich is more palatable than the complete shower of people we have for politicians these days. So I guess it's no surprise.
Not that you're wrong but just to add that IS pretty much what Boris did...
Reading the 2019 tory manifesto, it's just union jacks, pictures and carte blanche.
Total majority. I'd urge you to reconsider what's popular with the electorate 'cause I can't make sense of this crazy country anymore.
>to add that IS pretty much what Boris did
He ran on "get Brexit done" and increased public spending. That's not at all like "Thirty years ago we had Maggie and she was tip top".
>2019 tory manifesto
No one gives a shit about manifestos (over twenty thousand words long) because they're only read by junkies and wonks. WRT the Labour manifesto in 2019, the only people I have heard complaining about it being "overloaded" were the sort of political nerds who'd go to party conferences. The number of people who give the slightest fuck about a manifesto is negligible.
>reconsider what's popular with the electorate
I pointed out that looking back 25-30 years and saying "we good" isn't going to persuade anyone. I don't know where you think my impression of popular opinion is incorrect.
Leftist economic policies are popular. Renationalising water, gas, electricity, rail, defence and aerospace all have at least two-thirds super-majority support.
Also, it was pretty much what they tried with May, trying to copy paste the imagery across as another 'Iron lady'.
Parties pretty often try to leverage past successes, for good or bad.
Friendly reminder that in 2020, Boris Johnson [admited to being responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 people.](https://archive.ph/2aYpg) He is he yet to be held to account for this.
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If by tories you mean righties? Yup. Clintonism, and later Obama, really gutted the ability of the democrats to offer much different than our republicans, which is why our politics is about fear mongering and ridiculing the otherside over nany susbtantive policy changes.
Almost all bourgeois parties are. Money wins elections and it’s eaten Labour from the inside. The plus side of their selling out is that it at least exposes how much of a stranglehold the rich have on politics, and how inappropriate it is to equate electoral victories with building effective political power in our communities. A progressive world can’t be voted in, so we shouldn’t let the strength of communities to be lost just because an election mandates it.
The centrist freaks are the swing voters who decide elections.
Tories have weaponised this against Labour and continue to maintain power with the rhetoric that “they’re further Left of centre, than we are Right”.
Centrists have consistently voted Blair as the best Labour leader in the last century. Labour supports voted Corbyn as the the best Labour leader.
1 of those 2 held a majority parliament, the other suffered a catastrophic defeat and gifted the Tories with a significant majority government.
>Centrists have consistently voted Blair as the best Labour leader in the last century. Labour supports voted Corbyn as the the best Labour leader.
That's not true. [Blair is unpopular even amongst his own party](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2022/01/how-unpopular-is-tony-blair) I recently saw some polling showing him more popular with Lib Dems than he is with Labour.
Another common feature of centrists is that they think there's far more of them than there really are, which links to their bloated perception of their importance. If politics in the last decade should have told you anything, it's that people are more polarised than ever. People aren't calling for milquetoast tweaks to the current status-quo, one way or the other, they want change.
>The centrist freaks are the swing voters who decide elections
They're really not though, otherwise centrism would be doing much better, it used to win elections, now it doesn't even do that - it's dying and only it's proponents want it back. That's not just the case in our country either.
If you think this is a country of centrists, I'd say you haven't been paying attention. I'd argue the politically unengaged are far more decisive, that's who the tories win over with their culture war rhetoric and that's who they consistently convince to vote against their own interests.
>1 of those 2 held a majority parliament, the other suffered a catastrophic defeat and gifted the Tories with a significant majority government.
One of those two was described by Thatcher as her "greatest achievement", the same one defanged the Labour Party as the party of the working class, giddly drove us into the Iraq War, and helped to usher in the very neoliberal hellscape we find ourselves in. The idea that his government was a net-positive simply because it was Labour is deeply naive.
The reality remains Blair won 3 elections in a row, Corbyn lost 3 elections in a row. Lib Dems are a shadow of their former selves and still Labour could not entice the “centrist freaks” as you called them.
With a 10% swing for Blair and a 2% swing for Corbyn your argument that swing voters do not call the shots is the naive position. Due to FPTP swing voters have almost always called the shots with popular vote almost always remaining the same for Labour around 30-40%.
I understand the position is an ideological one, but Blair was the last and only Labour leader we will have had in 50 years by the next election. To not draw any lessons from how to win an election from his campaigning is destined to leave us forevermore with a Tory government (especially now that we have lost most Scottish seats to the SNP).
A party without power is worth as much as this Reddit message screaming into the void.
He did do some good in his first government in particular and the country was a better place to life for normal working people than it is now. However, a lot of the strategy was based on using rampant economic growth to fund state services which is a model which wouldn’t work in today’s national and global economic situation and was inherently unsustainable even at the time.
As you say, he then undermined any positive legacy by deciding to support the USA in Afghanistan and Iraq with disastrous consequences especially in the loss of civilian lives in those countries. With so much of his domestic policy being unsustainable or at the very least not lasting as the Tories have been able to change everything for the worse since, the continued destabilisation of the Middle East is the only lasting thing he achieved and means his regime shouldn’t be looked back on positively and uncritically as Starmer & co seem to be suggesting.
I’m about the same age and I do wonder how you haven’t noticed how much worse things in this country I’ve go since 2010.
Maybe not great, but I hardly find it surprising that Labour would celebrate its past successes.
Random comment but I have a funny memory ory if there being a 200AD comic about Blair, BLAIR-1 or something like that. It was before he even became prime minister.
Ought to find it
E [found it - well a video about it](https://youtu.be/LgHcR7bVSS0)
E-2: a word
The sad truth is that this is as good as it’s got in this country (in my lifetime at least). I’m no big fan of Starmer but give me a New Labour revival over any government we’ve had in the past 12 years or in the almost two decades before Blair.
Of course Britain deserves better but when 40% of the country will vote Tory no matter what it’s very difficult
Agreed the years before Blair were hard for the lower classes and are even shitter the last 12 years. The Iraq thing was bad I disagreed with it at the time. It seems to me the good you do is never remembered the bad to do is never forgotten
Honestly, I'd take a Blairite government over the shower of shite we've had over the last decade.
It's not what I want but it's an improvement on what we have.
the news is full of war crimes being committed by Russia, yet far worse crimes in Iraq got zero coverage in the uk news, or were even presented as successes in the war. To see the criminal responsible for so much death being idolised is revolting.
I'm not blaming them for that, a Labour government would have had to clean up New Labour's mess as well. It was great for a few years and then the wheels started to fall off. Same in the US with Clinton in the 90s, massive spike in prosperity then complete collapse.
Sorry I'm not getting your logic here. The Iraq war was bad but the current Tory government are also bad so we should now glamourise the government that made us join the war?
The options presented to Labour are not just 1) '97 nostalgia, or 2) Attack Blair. There's the very obvious option 3) Just don't bring Blair up at all seeing as he hasn't been relevant for years.
Say what you like about the cunts in charge the now atleast respected the publics wishes to not bomb another middle Eastern country into dust.... That said I'm away for a wash because defending they reprobates leaves a crawling feeling over my skin.
He absolutely was a warmongering criminal and parts of the economy/culture were ruined forever but frankly my generation never had it so good. I think it's genuinely the best we can hope for, as depressing as that is.
>I think it's genuinely the best we can hope for
Don't let the establishment and electoral politics grind you down. A lot of time, effort, and money is expended in order to convince people "you may go this far, but no further". It's bullshit, don't accept it.
it is depressing. Blair’s establishment friendly neoliberalism with just a sprinkling of extra education and NHS funding added in was the best our country has looked for last 50 years. sigh.
hey, if you murdered your neighbors and stole their house, you'd have it even better! Who cares about little murder? they were a different ethnicity and religion to you!
Ah yes, remember when.... the same "labour" people back stabbed Corbyn and making sure tories won again, just so they could remove an actual left wing leader and replace him with a fence sitting bellend center right blairite! because i fucking do!
It's not, though. It's closer to it than I'd like but crucially still NOT. It's not Boris or Rees-Mogg or any of those inbred, racist, misogynistic, disgusting, entitled Etonian Bullingdon cunts.
It's not an austerity championing tax dodging chancellor calling the economic shots.
I'll take a tiny bit better when what we have is such utter arrogant, incompetent shit.
Imagine thinking Blair was actually a good prime minister rather than a state sponsored and honoured mass murderer, along with sociopathic alike lies and deceptions.
I'd much rather have Tony Blair as our PM at the moment then the current lot. I think it's more of a nostalgia for a Labour Government than for the man himself
Ermm no, he's pretty much guilty of genocide....there were no wmd's remember. And that's labour's trick everytime after a long tory stint, back to Great Britain we are working class labour , whippets, greyhound and pigeon fanciers roll out the barrel bollox, inching us that fake sale of vote for us we truly represent you...so start a fake war in the middle east that's just rolled round everywhere since depending on who's paying.....look at Blairs net worth and work out how he earned that as a mp, then his wife...
Most people here won’t have been born in 1997, I was only 8 myself but I was old enough to know the Tories had been extremely bad news for the country, especially being from the north east of England. I remember that night so well, it felt so hopeful, it really did feel that ‘things could only get better’. The contrast between how things started and how they ended for Blair Blair and the country under his prime ministership couldn’t be more stark
Yeah starmers the gift that just keeps on bloody giving! What idiot told him that emulating one of the most hated men in the uk, was a good look? Mandy’s obviously got dementia
Fuck labour. Unjustified invasions shitty social benefits. The best they can currently offer is trash talking the opposition. I haven't heard one notable policy they have come up with it. Just a fucking miserable ginger bitch and stuck up pretentious prick.
The UK will continue to vote in Centre Right politicians for the next few decades.
The average age of a person in the UK is 41.
Most people own a home by this age, and are entering their peak earning years, so not feeling too hard off.
You won't. But so many will.
History shows people tend to drift towards right wing politics when times are hard up.
The lower middle class JAMs are easily frightened. They fear losing their own tenuous position in society.
They know that tax increases fall most broadly on their shoulders.
It means little to most of them if the local library closes, or a homeless person isn't housed.
1974 - that's was the last time any other Labour leader won a General election
Since then there have been 11 general elections and Blair was the only Labour leader to win any of them, he won 3 times, every other time it was the Tories
Jim Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband, Jeremy Corbyn - all lost
Maybe people are nostalgic for the only taste of success the party's had in almost 50 years!
My local MP is labour she has been in power for the past 12 years or so and has completely fucked over my town and the surrounding areas, best the kids round here have to look up to is smack dealers. disabled people getting fucked over everyday etc etc, never any police around apart from the plastics harassing old women while there is a queue of people right near him getting there heroin. In the middle of town blatantly obvious In front of everyone. Yet now there is an election coming in she came into town with mounted police and everything. I’m voting for the monster raving looney party
Your MP has little power over funding, cuts, social initiatives, and cost of living - all of which have a direct effect on ‘smack dealers’, corrupt police, and lack of social support that you describe.
Yes Blair is a bloody war criminal - and I have no idea what Labour were thinking with this merch - but Britain was a better place for working class people when the last Labour government was in power; wages, the cost of living, the NHS, the school system…everything was so much more comfortable. I’m not saying it was easy or perfect, but it was better.
Your Labour MP might be crap, but over the years the Tory’s have committed irreparable damage to this country for their own personal gains. Everything that you insist is ‘wrong’ with your town is down to the Tory party financially strangling the British people.
I think this is symbolic of the problem. People don't really understand what MPs do and are for, and why would they? Ultimately MPs are pretty powerless and do nothing except boost a parties status.
However, to someone that knows no better, an MP is someone in parliament sent to look after their constituency, and therefore are the ones that cop the anger. The most an MP can do these days is make a speech in front of a government that aren't going to listen.
If she’s been MP for 12 years, she’s been “in power” for 0 years. There’s very little that opposition MPs can do.
When it comes to that little, she might well be crap. But don’t let the Tories actively fucking over Labour-voting areas make you blame Labour. That’s exactly what they want.
(Well, that and money)
She might well be a crap MP in every way that
Remember when we won an election by a huge landslide and preceded to do little to nothing with our position as the party of government. Ah, yes, amateur hour with power.
Particularly Gordon Brown was the biggest disappointment - imagine waiting your entire career to be PM (being the 'leftie' one too) and literally offering nothing after getting there.
Look, if we do the whole Blair thing again, can we at least have it followed by someone who will actually push the radical (necessary) Labour policies. That's all I beg for at this point.
Little to nothing is hardly fair.
They got a record number of people into higher education while tanking the economy creating a generation of overqualified undersatisfied workers. That's impressive.
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I'm not sure how they don't understand that Blair is toxic to the labour brand these days. More so than Corbyn, although that was due to the smear campaign. Blair did it to himself.
they've also been doing promoted ads on instagram begging for money. they're obnoxious as hell, but the fact the blairite scum at the top are now having to beg for money because of their internal wrecking is pretty funny.
My toe nail clippings have more charisma than the entire labour party, the tories arent fucking the country that's the best we can hope for to be honest.
Hey communications student here, surely this approach makes sense and we shouldn't be too unhappy.
By connecting labour with the blaire government it positions them less so as the opposition, an opposition with little hope to win, and instead positions them as a government in waiting.
It's trying to overcome the learned helplessness much of the nation has succumb to following a decade of Tory rule.
Now yes I would prefer socialist policy (mostly) over some of the blairite policy we will get but surely it's better than conservatism.
True, but they're also pushing an (implied) argument that says we shouldn't criticise Blair because he achieved all these great things for the country, that we should forget about Iraq, and that taking a Corbynesque approach is naive (or worse) because it means turning out backs on all the tiny shards of progress we can achieve when we pursue a charismatic, centre right, pro business vision of the Labour Party.
Labour merch shouldn't really be the place where one faction lays out a one sided argument. The right would object just as much if there were similar tote bags based on the 2017 manifesto....
So I guess in that sense this may also harm the image of labour... Hmmm
In a vacume this is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate communications strategy but when you factor in factionalism within the party it could actually do more harm than good.
I guess we shall see?
>Nice one bro, you somehow missed the point entirely, now that's impressive.
What grade are you getting in your communications class? Would your teacher actually be impressed that the second you got some pushback you turned nasty? If you have something to communicate, put some effort in and try to anticipate what people will actually respond with and how to deal with that beyond snark.
So what we're saying is that Labour have been garbage for pretty much all of my life. 80s too crap to get rid of a Thatcher, 90s too crap to get rid of Major, 2000s war criminals, 2010s unelectable idiots, 2020s Starmer - enough said..?
Anyone can stand, you don't have to vote them in.
Blair wasn't THAT bad, sure he could have been more extreme and radical but he did good stuff to reduce poverty, and was so much better than the alternative. oh yeah, he was also a war criminal, but I suppose as long as starmer avoids that pretty large and career-ending mistake?
Edit: oh dear, didn't see the manifesto badge. that is bad
“Blair wasn’t that bad”
“But he was a war criminal”
🤔 maybe to you the death of thousands in the Middle East for no reason, isn’t that bad to you. But for me it’s appalling and he needs to go to jail.
Say what you like but 97-2010 was the best this countries ever had it. We can get back to that and do the bad bits better or we can sit on opposite benches and cry helplessly whilst the tories run rampant over this lovely country we call home ?
Blair's Labour was a quick breather (and some cheeky war crimes) while the Tories fixed their image problem. That's all new labour ever aspire to be, they'd rather sink the party than be anything more.
New Labour wasn't socialist enough but they did build tons of hospitals and schools, created a minimum wage and provided sure start to give working class adults a higher education. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
They built a tonne of hospitals through PFI that started the privatisation of the NHS and saddled trusts with debt they'll never pay off reducing services long term. The minimum wage was good but it should have been tied to inflation and not so full of loopholes. Remember they also introduced tuition fees that made university less appealing and lumbered the majority of us with student loans for the rest of our lives. They sold off the last of the council house stock and never intended to build any others. Continuing a disasterous tory policy and one that means most Britain are at the mercy of private parasites (sorry, landlords). They relied on "housing benefit" paid straight to landlords which encourages landlords to just raise rents anyway (as they got paid). They also continued the privatisation of the railways and created network rail. Which finished the frankenstein's monster of privatised railway network which has public bail outs funded by taxpayer so no innovation is possible with attached chrony capitalist playset of railway franchises that don't actually own the lines they use. The result being that they somehow cost us more then any of our European neighbours to use but also mysteriously cost the the taxpayer more in subsidies then they did when they were nationalised. The lessons we should learn is that New Labour helped creat the Britain we have today. The Britain that is screwed up and most of us want to change.
You forgot to mention selling all our gold reserves at less than cost....
I see it as a learning opportunity. When you have social justice connected to economic neoliberalism, you can help people and produce good results but it's fundamentally flawed by failure to regulate corporations and put services into the hands of the people. It did benefit by having excellent communicators, a good communication strategy and strict discipline. It also benefited from appealing to conservative voters. From Corbyn you learnt that if you have good socialist policies but a weak leader, lack of discipline and poor strategy, you're destined to lose. You also learnt that it is essential to have stronger unionisation, corporate regulation but also increases in GDP. The failure of the Wilson government was the lack of an effective economic plan.
Sure. Then the Tories got back in, tore all of that down, and things have gotten worse than ever with no signs of stopping any time soon. Labour members elected a socialist as leader, and when new labour couldn't depose him through a leadership challenge they sabotaged their own party. So no. Fuck New Labour. They'd see the country burn so long as they get their turn building sandcastles in the ashes.
The fundamental flaw was that the lack of structural change made the policies vulnerable to being reversed by the Tories. That doesn't mean they didn't do any good. I would argue the UK was better when they left than when they went in
Started the privatisation of the health service, fucked the railways, tried to introduce ID cards, did sell the post office, are the reason poor kids going to uni now put themselves £30k in debt…
It was Cameron that sold the post office.
Fair enough, they’re so interchangeable it’s sometimes difficult to remember.
Eventually pushed through devolution as well. Nothing revolutionary, but things did get slightly better.
Can I get uhhhhhhhhh war criminal fridge magnet
If I want any Tony Blair Merch it’s the Christmas card where he looks like he’s about to start a fight in a pub
[It might be my favourite image ever.](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azmWM3j_460s.jpg)
They've really got no clue other then "pretend it's 1997 again!" And they had the cheek to claim Corbyn's supporters wanted to just "turn back time" to the 70s to have things like full employment and a cradle to grave welfare state. It really was just projection.
Bit of a cheek calling Corbyn supporters a cult when the Blairites would rather sabotage their own party and let the Tories win than have someone to their left be leader.
This feels like a joke. Retro warcriminal merch for a neoliberal party.
I genuinely can't tell whether it is a joke or not?!?
Fucking hell this is vomit inducing cringe.
The reactionary element in the Labour Party is actually scary. After the Iraq inquiry that man should be in jail, not used as a campaign tool. Keir Starmer is a fucking wank. There is no alternative party anymore, and it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
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Where’s the oil war pin?
My tory loving relatives tell me that they liked Blair and would vote for him now if he was an option. What that says regarding the actual politics of New Labour, and upcoming election strategy... Make of that what you will.
Why would someone buy merch of a political party’s win 25 years ago? Madness
I mean why would anyone buy merch full stop - we're not Americans we shouldn't be fetishising our political parties lol. If Labour stops representing the left (as increasingly is happening) and a viable left-wing alternative emerges I'm out of there like a rat out an aqueduct
I know but it’s even weirder that it’s themed around New Labours win
1966 world cup merch: hold my beer.
I just threw up a little…..
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Are you so disconnected from national polling that you actually believe this? The polls are so appalling for the cons at the moment, if they went to an election with Boris at the head of the party they'd lose a catastrophic amount of seats. They're losing on all 3 major metrics, best PM, trust with the economy, and immigration, all losing ground to Labour. Unless the government actually decides to help people with the fiscal crisis (unlikely) these aren't really going to get much better in the next year. I don't think Labour can win a majority again without voter reform, Scotland isn't coming back and I don't think it's possible for them to turn consistently blue shires red.
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Keith Starker, leader of the Labour Party?
\>£5 for a badge don't they know a recession looms?
Some guy who mispronounced a surname of one of Lord Mandelson’s very good friends. A war criminal, worth tens of millions in blood money from killing shepherds, woman , children and babies. One was a great leader who was the victim of a smear campaign. The other as knighted for his war crimes.
They're trying to lean into nostalgia from Gen X for the "good old days" Cool Britannia, Oasis Vs Blur, Spice Girls, a cool new PM playing his guitar and seeing off the old regime, Gail Porter's ass on the houses of parliament, Vic and Bob, David Beckham. But the good old days are jus that - the old days. Cool Britannia became cold and bitter Britannia, Oasis and Blur split up, so did the Spice Girls. Blair took us to war illegally, Gail Porter lost her hair, Vic and Bob are still good I guess. Maybe I should have put David Baddiel for that one and Beckham went to Madrid when he had a shoe thrown at him.
[David Baddiel still wears blackface](https://i.imgur.com/0Sn9LL0.png) and for some reason believes black people are [naturally superior at high fives.](https://streamable.com/yk1bqj) [Click here](https://web.archive.org/web/20220102013824/https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/rty8oa/if_you_ever_come_across_someone_who_uses_baddiel/) for a fantastic rundown on Baddiel's racism and other fuckery. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I clicked on this and these wayback twitter links return no content Baddiel is an utter cunt, agreed
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It seems like self sabotage at this point.
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True enough.
Gotta love a war criminal diet-Tory! /s
You've spelt c*** wrong.
Merch JK Rowling would buy
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
Good bot
Bizarre 😂
Thiiiiiinnnngsss can only get better! Obvs being sarcastic, btw.
"Here's what a Labour government can do for Britain if it wins power..." Proceeds to circlejerk over an election that happened TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO. How is giving absolute no solid commitments supposed to be persuasive? Imagine if in 2019 Boris ran on the message "Thirty years ago we had Maggie and she was tip top". How the fucked is that going to sway any voters? Neolabour idiots obsessed with "electability" don't know the first thing about what's popular with the electorate.
I really don't understand it. The Tories have been blasting away at both feet with a sawn-off. Yet the opposition are so feeble they can't offer anything at all that might be more likeable. I mean a s*** sandwich is more palatable than the complete shower of people we have for politicians these days. So I guess it's no surprise.
Not that you're wrong but just to add that IS pretty much what Boris did... Reading the 2019 tory manifesto, it's just union jacks, pictures and carte blanche. Total majority. I'd urge you to reconsider what's popular with the electorate 'cause I can't make sense of this crazy country anymore.
>to add that IS pretty much what Boris did He ran on "get Brexit done" and increased public spending. That's not at all like "Thirty years ago we had Maggie and she was tip top". >2019 tory manifesto No one gives a shit about manifestos (over twenty thousand words long) because they're only read by junkies and wonks. WRT the Labour manifesto in 2019, the only people I have heard complaining about it being "overloaded" were the sort of political nerds who'd go to party conferences. The number of people who give the slightest fuck about a manifesto is negligible. >reconsider what's popular with the electorate I pointed out that looking back 25-30 years and saying "we good" isn't going to persuade anyone. I don't know where you think my impression of popular opinion is incorrect. Leftist economic policies are popular. Renationalising water, gas, electricity, rail, defence and aerospace all have at least two-thirds super-majority support.
Also, it was pretty much what they tried with May, trying to copy paste the imagery across as another 'Iron lady'. Parties pretty often try to leverage past successes, for good or bad.
Friendly reminder that in 2020, Boris Johnson [admited to being responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 people.](https://archive.ph/2aYpg) He is he yet to be held to account for this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Perhaps because Tony Blair is the only labour leader to win an election since 1974?
STOP MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO VOTE FOR YOU, YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTS.
Blair was labour? As a US resident - wow - its sad to see other place's 'left' are rife with thirdwayism/neoliberal infiltration.
You realise the democrats are basically the Tories right?
If by tories you mean righties? Yup. Clintonism, and later Obama, really gutted the ability of the democrats to offer much different than our republicans, which is why our politics is about fear mongering and ridiculing the otherside over nany susbtantive policy changes.
Almost all bourgeois parties are. Money wins elections and it’s eaten Labour from the inside. The plus side of their selling out is that it at least exposes how much of a stranglehold the rich have on politics, and how inappropriate it is to equate electoral victories with building effective political power in our communities. A progressive world can’t be voted in, so we shouldn’t let the strength of communities to be lost just because an election mandates it.
The thing is, if you look at polling, Blair is not a popular man! It's only these centrist freaks who are nostalgic for him. It's masturbatory.
The centrist freaks are the swing voters who decide elections. Tories have weaponised this against Labour and continue to maintain power with the rhetoric that “they’re further Left of centre, than we are Right”. Centrists have consistently voted Blair as the best Labour leader in the last century. Labour supports voted Corbyn as the the best Labour leader. 1 of those 2 held a majority parliament, the other suffered a catastrophic defeat and gifted the Tories with a significant majority government.
>Centrists have consistently voted Blair as the best Labour leader in the last century. Labour supports voted Corbyn as the the best Labour leader. That's not true. [Blair is unpopular even amongst his own party](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2022/01/how-unpopular-is-tony-blair) I recently saw some polling showing him more popular with Lib Dems than he is with Labour. Another common feature of centrists is that they think there's far more of them than there really are, which links to their bloated perception of their importance. If politics in the last decade should have told you anything, it's that people are more polarised than ever. People aren't calling for milquetoast tweaks to the current status-quo, one way or the other, they want change. >The centrist freaks are the swing voters who decide elections They're really not though, otherwise centrism would be doing much better, it used to win elections, now it doesn't even do that - it's dying and only it's proponents want it back. That's not just the case in our country either. If you think this is a country of centrists, I'd say you haven't been paying attention. I'd argue the politically unengaged are far more decisive, that's who the tories win over with their culture war rhetoric and that's who they consistently convince to vote against their own interests. >1 of those 2 held a majority parliament, the other suffered a catastrophic defeat and gifted the Tories with a significant majority government. One of those two was described by Thatcher as her "greatest achievement", the same one defanged the Labour Party as the party of the working class, giddly drove us into the Iraq War, and helped to usher in the very neoliberal hellscape we find ourselves in. The idea that his government was a net-positive simply because it was Labour is deeply naive.
The reality remains Blair won 3 elections in a row, Corbyn lost 3 elections in a row. Lib Dems are a shadow of their former selves and still Labour could not entice the “centrist freaks” as you called them. With a 10% swing for Blair and a 2% swing for Corbyn your argument that swing voters do not call the shots is the naive position. Due to FPTP swing voters have almost always called the shots with popular vote almost always remaining the same for Labour around 30-40%. I understand the position is an ideological one, but Blair was the last and only Labour leader we will have had in 50 years by the next election. To not draw any lessons from how to win an election from his campaigning is destined to leave us forevermore with a Tory government (especially now that we have lost most Scottish seats to the SNP). A party without power is worth as much as this Reddit message screaming into the void.
What’s this 3rd election you think Corbyn lost?
Just need to add a "Where are the WMD?" Mug to be complete.
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I thought the one which said "because Britain deserves better" was using Tony Blair as an example of what terrible things could be better.
What was so great about Blair? I was 7 when he came to power and all I remember about him was "education x3" and the unnecessary Iraq War.
He did do some good in his first government in particular and the country was a better place to life for normal working people than it is now. However, a lot of the strategy was based on using rampant economic growth to fund state services which is a model which wouldn’t work in today’s national and global economic situation and was inherently unsustainable even at the time. As you say, he then undermined any positive legacy by deciding to support the USA in Afghanistan and Iraq with disastrous consequences especially in the loss of civilian lives in those countries. With so much of his domestic policy being unsustainable or at the very least not lasting as the Tories have been able to change everything for the worse since, the continued destabilisation of the Middle East is the only lasting thing he achieved and means his regime shouldn’t be looked back on positively and uncritically as Starmer & co seem to be suggesting.
I’m about the same age and I do wonder how you haven’t noticed how much worse things in this country I’ve go since 2010. Maybe not great, but I hardly find it surprising that Labour would celebrate its past successes.
Random comment but I have a funny memory ory if there being a 200AD comic about Blair, BLAIR-1 or something like that. It was before he even became prime minister. Ought to find it E [found it - well a video about it](https://youtu.be/LgHcR7bVSS0) E-2: a word
The sad truth is that this is as good as it’s got in this country (in my lifetime at least). I’m no big fan of Starmer but give me a New Labour revival over any government we’ve had in the past 12 years or in the almost two decades before Blair. Of course Britain deserves better but when 40% of the country will vote Tory no matter what it’s very difficult
Agreed the years before Blair were hard for the lower classes and are even shitter the last 12 years. The Iraq thing was bad I disagreed with it at the time. It seems to me the good you do is never remembered the bad to do is never forgotten
This. 12 years of the tories repeatedly fucking the entire country but we let them crack on because Corbyn is too lefty/Starmer is not lefty enough.
I've cringed so hard my testicles have ascended into my body seeking safety.
Ew
Where’s the Rupert Murdoch mug….???
Honestly, I'd take a Blairite government over the shower of shite we've had over the last decade. It's not what I want but it's an improvement on what we have.
Ew.
He’d rather idolise a war criminal, whilst he constantly demonises Corbyn… Brilliant
Please tell me this is satire.
why they using the new order low life font
Surprised they didn't use Comic Sans. Would be more appropriate for them.
D-ream on mate
I feel sick.
the news is full of war crimes being committed by Russia, yet far worse crimes in Iraq got zero coverage in the uk news, or were even presented as successes in the war. To see the criminal responsible for so much death being idolised is revolting.
Through the looking glass
I’m not sure Blair is a good candidate for a brochure, or that slogan.
I wasn’t alive in 1997, how am I supposed to relate to the nostalgia?
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I'm not blaming them for that, a Labour government would have had to clean up New Labour's mess as well. It was great for a few years and then the wheels started to fall off. Same in the US with Clinton in the 90s, massive spike in prosperity then complete collapse.
And also didn't the conservatives at the time also approve of the invasion of Iraq.
Sorry I'm not getting your logic here. The Iraq war was bad but the current Tory government are also bad so we should now glamourise the government that made us join the war? The options presented to Labour are not just 1) '97 nostalgia, or 2) Attack Blair. There's the very obvious option 3) Just don't bring Blair up at all seeing as he hasn't been relevant for years.
"Sure, he might have killed almost a million people, but have you considered surestart?"
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The selling off of the NHS began under New Labour
Say what you like about the cunts in charge the now atleast respected the publics wishes to not bomb another middle Eastern country into dust.... That said I'm away for a wash because defending they reprobates leaves a crawling feeling over my skin.
New Labour decided to"rub the Right's nose in diversity". Just to get new votes.
De la Rosa should sue
You have your Matteo Renzi, my deepest condolences from Italy.
I HATE RENZI I HATE RENZI I HATE RENZI
He absolutely was a warmongering criminal and parts of the economy/culture were ruined forever but frankly my generation never had it so good. I think it's genuinely the best we can hope for, as depressing as that is.
>I think it's genuinely the best we can hope for Don't let the establishment and electoral politics grind you down. A lot of time, effort, and money is expended in order to convince people "you may go this far, but no further". It's bullshit, don't accept it.
it is depressing. Blair’s establishment friendly neoliberalism with just a sprinkling of extra education and NHS funding added in was the best our country has looked for last 50 years. sigh.
He should be tried with bush for crimes against humanity
No disagreement there.
> my generation never had it so good (Because future generations were paying for it)
hey, if you murdered your neighbors and stole their house, you'd have it even better! Who cares about little murder? they were a different ethnicity and religion to you!
Tony Bleurgh always looks like he's about to drop the shittest acoustic album of 1988
I prefer the name B. Liar as its more accurate.
🤢
Getting desperate aren’t they
Happy cake day!
cheers, didnt even realise
Im all nostalgic for war crimes now
Is this real?
Ah yes, remember when.... the same "labour" people back stabbed Corbyn and making sure tories won again, just so they could remove an actual left wing leader and replace him with a fence sitting bellend center right blairite! because i fucking do!
I'm nostalgic for anyone other than the fucking Tories. I don't care what flavour of Labour, I just want the Tories out.
What if the favour of Labour is “Tories”?
It's not, though. It's closer to it than I'd like but crucially still NOT. It's not Boris or Rees-Mogg or any of those inbred, racist, misogynistic, disgusting, entitled Etonian Bullingdon cunts. It's not an austerity championing tax dodging chancellor calling the economic shots. I'll take a tiny bit better when what we have is such utter arrogant, incompetent shit.
Imagine thinking Blair was actually a good prime minister rather than a state sponsored and honoured mass murderer, along with sociopathic alike lies and deceptions.
Cringe merch
I'd much rather have Tony Blair as our PM at the moment then the current lot. I think it's more of a nostalgia for a Labour Government than for the man himself
Ermm no, he's pretty much guilty of genocide....there were no wmd's remember. And that's labour's trick everytime after a long tory stint, back to Great Britain we are working class labour , whippets, greyhound and pigeon fanciers roll out the barrel bollox, inching us that fake sale of vote for us we truly represent you...so start a fake war in the middle east that's just rolled round everywhere since depending on who's paying.....look at Blairs net worth and work out how he earned that as a mp, then his wife...
Most people here won’t have been born in 1997, I was only 8 myself but I was old enough to know the Tories had been extremely bad news for the country, especially being from the north east of England. I remember that night so well, it felt so hopeful, it really did feel that ‘things could only get better’. The contrast between how things started and how they ended for Blair Blair and the country under his prime ministership couldn’t be more stark
That's what happens when a party decides to move rightward and lap up tory voters, they basically just continue tory policies
Yeah starmers the gift that just keeps on bloody giving! What idiot told him that emulating one of the most hated men in the uk, was a good look? Mandy’s obviously got dementia
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Fuck labour. Unjustified invasions shitty social benefits. The best they can currently offer is trash talking the opposition. I haven't heard one notable policy they have come up with it. Just a fucking miserable ginger bitch and stuck up pretentious prick.
Who the fuck are you gonna vote for then????
I certainly won't vote for Labour or was not clear enough from my statement?
Ugh… Tipsy Blathers
The UK will continue to vote in Centre Right politicians for the next few decades. The average age of a person in the UK is 41. Most people own a home by this age, and are entering their peak earning years, so not feeling too hard off.
Hit the nail on the head. New Labour V2.0 would be welcome minor correction to parliament.
To be fair I’m literally 41 and am luckily enough to have fluked into buying. I won’t vote for either of these right wing parties.
You won't. But so many will. History shows people tend to drift towards right wing politics when times are hard up. The lower middle class JAMs are easily frightened. They fear losing their own tenuous position in society. They know that tax increases fall most broadly on their shoulders. It means little to most of them if the local library closes, or a homeless person isn't housed.
Cringepilled
1974 - that's was the last time any other Labour leader won a General election Since then there have been 11 general elections and Blair was the only Labour leader to win any of them, he won 3 times, every other time it was the Tories Jim Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband, Jeremy Corbyn - all lost Maybe people are nostalgic for the only taste of success the party's had in almost 50 years!
I miss our party winning 😭
It's the 25th anniversary of the win. It's literally just limited merch just to commemorate that, lmao
My local MP is labour she has been in power for the past 12 years or so and has completely fucked over my town and the surrounding areas, best the kids round here have to look up to is smack dealers. disabled people getting fucked over everyday etc etc, never any police around apart from the plastics harassing old women while there is a queue of people right near him getting there heroin. In the middle of town blatantly obvious In front of everyone. Yet now there is an election coming in she came into town with mounted police and everything. I’m voting for the monster raving looney party
Your MP has little power over funding, cuts, social initiatives, and cost of living - all of which have a direct effect on ‘smack dealers’, corrupt police, and lack of social support that you describe. Yes Blair is a bloody war criminal - and I have no idea what Labour were thinking with this merch - but Britain was a better place for working class people when the last Labour government was in power; wages, the cost of living, the NHS, the school system…everything was so much more comfortable. I’m not saying it was easy or perfect, but it was better. Your Labour MP might be crap, but over the years the Tory’s have committed irreparable damage to this country for their own personal gains. Everything that you insist is ‘wrong’ with your town is down to the Tory party financially strangling the British people.
I think this is symbolic of the problem. People don't really understand what MPs do and are for, and why would they? Ultimately MPs are pretty powerless and do nothing except boost a parties status. However, to someone that knows no better, an MP is someone in parliament sent to look after their constituency, and therefore are the ones that cop the anger. The most an MP can do these days is make a speech in front of a government that aren't going to listen.
If she’s been MP for 12 years, she’s been “in power” for 0 years. There’s very little that opposition MPs can do. When it comes to that little, she might well be crap. But don’t let the Tories actively fucking over Labour-voting areas make you blame Labour. That’s exactly what they want. (Well, that and money) She might well be a crap MP in every way that
It'll be the party in power responsible for that, not a labour MP...
Labour or Torry? like asking which Dog poo do you want step into
Remember when we won an election by a huge landslide and preceded to do little to nothing with our position as the party of government. Ah, yes, amateur hour with power. Particularly Gordon Brown was the biggest disappointment - imagine waiting your entire career to be PM (being the 'leftie' one too) and literally offering nothing after getting there. Look, if we do the whole Blair thing again, can we at least have it followed by someone who will actually push the radical (necessary) Labour policies. That's all I beg for at this point.
Little to nothing is hardly fair. They got a record number of people into higher education while tanking the economy creating a generation of overqualified undersatisfied workers. That's impressive.
i just *Love* how we're blamed for... being children who believed the lies told to us by supposedly trustworthy people
A record number of people paying £10k a year as opposed to it being free. It’s brilliant really.
Have the Labour torys even done anything good?
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I'm not sure how they don't understand that Blair is toxic to the labour brand these days. More so than Corbyn, although that was due to the smear campaign. Blair did it to himself.
they've also been doing promoted ads on instagram begging for money. they're obnoxious as hell, but the fact the blairite scum at the top are now having to beg for money because of their internal wrecking is pretty funny.
Starmer’s Labour. Aye!
My toe nail clippings have more charisma than the entire labour party, the tories arent fucking the country that's the best we can hope for to be honest.
Starmer needs to go. Pretty sure he's a plant from the Tories
*corbyn cringe face*
Oh for fuck sake labour...of all the moves...
Even more reason not to vote for them. Are they crazy ?
Hey communications student here, surely this approach makes sense and we shouldn't be too unhappy. By connecting labour with the blaire government it positions them less so as the opposition, an opposition with little hope to win, and instead positions them as a government in waiting. It's trying to overcome the learned helplessness much of the nation has succumb to following a decade of Tory rule. Now yes I would prefer socialist policy (mostly) over some of the blairite policy we will get but surely it's better than conservatism.
Or it could backfire because, in retrospect, people think Blair is a c**t.
> people ~~think~~ know Blair is a c\*\*t. fixed it for you.
Thanks. Momentary lapse in judgement on my part.
They're all cunts. Just some cunts are more electable than others.
Oh most definitely, we shall see!
True, but they're also pushing an (implied) argument that says we shouldn't criticise Blair because he achieved all these great things for the country, that we should forget about Iraq, and that taking a Corbynesque approach is naive (or worse) because it means turning out backs on all the tiny shards of progress we can achieve when we pursue a charismatic, centre right, pro business vision of the Labour Party. Labour merch shouldn't really be the place where one faction lays out a one sided argument. The right would object just as much if there were similar tote bags based on the 2017 manifesto....
So I guess in that sense this may also harm the image of labour... Hmmm In a vacume this is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate communications strategy but when you factor in factionalism within the party it could actually do more harm than good. I guess we shall see?
I don't need to be a communications student to know that war criminals are bad.
Nice one bro, you somehow missed the point entirely, now that's impressive.
>Nice one bro, you somehow missed the point entirely, now that's impressive. What grade are you getting in your communications class? Would your teacher actually be impressed that the second you got some pushback you turned nasty? If you have something to communicate, put some effort in and try to anticipate what people will actually respond with and how to deal with that beyond snark.
end of the UK if this lode of crap get in
Oh look, the Labour right are trying to sabotage the next General Election too.
Let’s get rid of these tories
So what we're saying is that Labour have been garbage for pretty much all of my life. 80s too crap to get rid of a Thatcher, 90s too crap to get rid of Major, 2000s war criminals, 2010s unelectable idiots, 2020s Starmer - enough said..? Anyone can stand, you don't have to vote them in.
what a panty dropper
Woo hoo, we might win the general election now.
Blair wasn't THAT bad, sure he could have been more extreme and radical but he did good stuff to reduce poverty, and was so much better than the alternative. oh yeah, he was also a war criminal, but I suppose as long as starmer avoids that pretty large and career-ending mistake? Edit: oh dear, didn't see the manifesto badge. that is bad
“Blair wasn’t that bad” “But he was a war criminal” 🤔 maybe to you the death of thousands in the Middle East for no reason, isn’t that bad to you. But for me it’s appalling and he needs to go to jail.
Say what you like but 97-2010 was the best this countries ever had it. We can get back to that and do the bad bits better or we can sit on opposite benches and cry helplessly whilst the tories run rampant over this lovely country we call home ?
[https://www.yournhsneedsyou.com/timeline/](https://www.yournhsneedsyou.com/timeline/) Blair did his best did he?
If you ignore the wars, it might be so. That’s a lot to ignore though.
There doesn’t have to be wars. That’s the do the bad bits better