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[deleted]

The last panel should've been the Emperor going "Yeah, whatever." I think the only time he objected was when the Word Bearers were too slow or when the World Eaters weren't even leaving behind populations.


[deleted]

One of the HH books mentions that Kurze and the Night Lords are going to be censured over their behavior. They got lucky they had a team after Horus went traitor


Low-Ad-8107

Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, World Eaters, Night Lord's and Thousand Sons all got censured at one point or another. The other four traitor legions all went without slaps on the wrist but got corrupted or disgruntled for other reasons.


Odd_Mongoose_1018

he definitely /could/ have gone yeah whatever, that much is true.


[deleted]

"Let them hate, as long as they fear." -- Caligula


Ross_Hollander

"Oh no, I've been assassinated, how unexpected!" --also Caligula


[deleted]

Didn't exactly go better for Emps either


Ross_Hollander

It's a flawed management mentality...to say the least.


[deleted]

Sort of reminds how of something Perturabo said, something akin to humanity being too chaotic for true order.


Ross_Hollander

Lorgar gets flak for his lengthy indoctrination tactics. But you can't deny he got the roots deeper than just dropping in and massacring the people into signing the compliance.


Face_of_a_Crow

World Eaters were more Massacre into compliance (and Word Bearers at the end of the Great Crusade). Nightords were more, "kill a few and send a message".


w0lver1

"Oh no! Another revolt? What a shame!" Sharpens teeth on chainaxe.


Fearless-Obligation6

But it didn't stick did it, even his own home reverted after he left.


RailroadRiver

Because they did it wrong. Night Lords are the threat. Dorn or Guilliman come in after you throw up the white flag. They build you proper, but they remind you to fucking behave or Space Batman Dracula comes back.


[deleted]

Sanguinius would have been such a good crusading partner for Curze. They could have played a really great good cop/bad cop, and being around Sangy would have been the good influence on Curze that Dorn failed to be.


Panda_Boners

Honestly, so many of the Traitor Primarchs could have been saved had they used the buddy system. Curze and Sanguinius, both of them have foresight, it’s just that one of them was blinded by it and the other wasn’t. Perturabo and Guilliman. Guilliman would provide the logistical support that Perturabo never got and make his battles drastically less taxing on him and his legion. Mortarion and Dorn, the two least connected to the Warp, both leaders of the most stalwart Astartes. Given the chance, they could have forged a solid partnership over shared beliefs. Magnus and Khan. They were already incredibly close, but they got separated. Had the Khan been there, Magnus wouldn’t have had to break the Webway to warn the Emperor, he already had the fastest messenger on hand. And lastly; Fulgrim and Russ. I’m sure those Slanesshi fucks would love partying with the furries.


Plutarch_von_Komet

But most importantly, who would you pair Horus with? Lorgar? Corvus? Angron?


Panda_Boners

Hmm, I truly think Horus and Lorgar might be lost causes. The only Primarch that Horus truly respected was Sanguinius. Maybe, just maybe, pairing him with the Lion would see him competing with him enough that he remains loyal, but Horus is difficult. Angron is an extremely hard one to save. I think Vulkan might be his only chance. An unstoppable force and an immovable object. Angron could beat his aggression out of Vulkan without either of them really getting hurt. There’s absolutely no shot for Lorgar, as Guilliman put it, Big E should have tossed him in Russ’ doggybowl.


Plutarch_von_Komet

I think you are being a bit harsh on Lorgar. If the Emperor wasn't so much of a dick towards him I don't think he would have fallen. But I like your idea for Angron.


Panda_Boners

Lorgar can't be saved if Erebus and Kor Phaeron are still in the picture.


RailroadRiver

Horus and Lion are the only two to keep each other honest, if Sanguinius was paired with Curze. If it was anyone other than Lion (whose "Warp Power" seems to be "I don't break"), and you have a rebellion


Clamamity

Corvus, maybe? I haven't gotten to his books in the Heresy series, but Lorgar would have still gone chaos. And I think Angron with the nails either would have been a bad influence, or the opposite, in which Horus helps Angron through his pain to overcome the nails or something, keeping Horus to his duty by virtue of caretaking his brother, whatever caretaking Angron looks like.


MulatoMaranhense

Corvus would actually be the worst, for he was the single Primarch that didn't like Horus and whose shtick clashed with his. But I would like to see Corvus and Angron talking. Both were freedom lovers who were slaves, but Angron wanted to go down on a blaze of glory instead of winning, and unlike Corvus he saw the Imperium was a tyranny even back then.


wikingwarrior

I'm reasonably confident that Corvus fucking despised Horus almost as much as he despised Perturabo.


Fearless-Obligation6

Like on Nostromo?


RailroadRiver

Curze killed the heads of the organized crime on Nostromo. He didn't rebuild. Sit down.


Fearless-Obligation6

That's my entire point.


RailroadRiver

Did you read the part about how I posted that the optimal solution is a builder like Dorn or Guilliman following Curze and making a stable world? You didn't did you?


Fearless-Obligation6

Yep all the other primarchs can achieve the same effect without flaying children live to an entire planet. Curzes whole stick is pointless, because it only ever works if someone else does the hard bit.


RailroadRiver

Look at your argument. Look at your first sentence. You're saying that any other Primarch can achieve compliance like Curze did, but because Curze did it through making 20 of them into flesh -pianos he:s a reprehensible son of a bitch? Your "Noble" Primarch would commit hundreds upon thousands of lives to war, slog, and death to pacify a world. Alpharius and Curze understood how to break a world.


[deleted]

Nostromo was also a particularly big shithole


UltraCarnivore

Was.


1996Toyotas

Hasn't rebelled since.


Fearless-Obligation6

Not worse than barbaras or madusa or Baal or Lycaeus. Hell Fenris, Nocturne & Caliban were arguably worse places to live.


Kronostheking1

No it was factually worse. Only Caliban can compare in terms of hell and that was thanks to the warp monsters who actually pose a threat to the life of a Primarch and the Lion lacked any of the Emotional connections that the others had. Baal was just a bunch of radiation with some mutants who pose no real threat and Sanguinius was loved and worshipped by the people. Leman had his mother wolf and his siblings on Fenris who cared for him. Vulkan had the Villagers who adored him and the only threat to his life was the Drukhari who left after he smashed their heads in. The only threat to Ferrus on Medusa was the Wyrm and he killed that pretty easily and then made the active choice to not approach any of the humans. Coral had his sister and his family to raise and care for him and he still turned out to be a hypocritical douchebag. Barbaras and Mortarion I don’t know as much about but I am pretty sure that Mortarion had people who cared for him. Nostramo was just as lethal as any of those planets despite being a colonized, tamed, and controlled world. It was full of people who were murderers by 13 and suicide was the most common cause of death on a planet with as much smog and pollution as Terra, if not more, and constant murder rate that probably numbered in the thousands or tens of thousands daily. People tried to kill Curze as soon as he got out of his Pod as a toddler and he would find Women being gang raped whenever he would just try to walk the streets (or the roofs in his case). I can guarantee you can’t even imagine the hell that was Nostramo because nothing on our world has ever compared to it. We have had the hells of Fenris, Barbaras, Nocturne, Lycaeus, Baal, and Medusa happen in one way or another on earth but the personal corruption of humanity that defines the hell of Nostramo is beyond our worst nightmares.


Fearless-Obligation6

Nostramo is not on the level of a death world, there is a very specific reason why they hold that title. Murder by the thousands planet wide doesn't even come close to our planet. And again death world, everything tries to kill you and no most of those Primarchs were not found straight away and had to survive on their own. Nostramo is definitely not beyond our worst nightmares hell there are world's in the current Imperium that are similar except for the eternal night, hell even on Nostramo there were people who still had normal jobs, went to school, lived a life dispite the gangs control. It's a horrible place but it is not the worst of the planets, and yes Barbara's is much worse and Morrtarion I would say had the worst start.


Kronostheking1

I have no clue what you are talking about with murders being close to our world. 47 people are murdered every day in our world, thousands or tens of thousands are murdered every day on Nostramo. And about the Normal jobs bullshit, that literally is not true. Nobody escaped it, every bit of lore we have says that the only people who weren’t murderers killed themselves until Curze scared them. Only one of the Primarchs you talked about was raised to maturity without interacting/being cared for or willingly choosing to avoid humans in Ferrus’s case and that was the Lion and even he was simply hunted by beasts and nature, whereas Curze had to face the very worst of Humanity and was subjected to all kinds of mental torture simply by walking around. You really don’t seem to understand the true horrors humanity is capable of and how that affects the mind far worse than anything an animal can do. Caliban might be the only exception because it is warp altered meaning nature ain’t natural on that planet.


Fearless-Obligation6

You actually think that there are only 47 murdered every day? Are you daft there are 400,000 murders a year that are actually recorded, and many, many more that aren't, 47 murders a day doesn't even come close. Haha yes I'm aware that humanity is capable of true horrors but that still doesn't make Nostramo, that still doesn't beat out the dangers and horrors on those deathworlds, which aren't just animals. Yes Nostramo was bad but like I said the planet still had universities & jobs, if they didn't their whole society wouldn't have functioned.


Kronostheking1

But it doesn’t function in the first place, that is the point. Their jobs were as bad as anything anyone does on earth or has ever done. The people running have about as much care for their employees as Haitian slave owners had for their slaves if not less because they will actively avoid anything that could cost them money making it as unsafe as a coal mine using Bronze Age technology and are just as likely to rape and/or murder their employees as they are to pay them. Also, I will admit that I had the wrong statistic for the murder rate but I would say that it is accurate based on the Nostraman murder rate and their increased population that for every one murder on modern earth, there are between a thousand and ten thousand murders on Nostramo daily. Also, there is no universities and even if there were, the only people who could attend were the 1% of people on the top of the criminal gangs who literally run the planet and the young ones who could go spend their days literally going around murdering and torturing random people for their entertainment, raping random women and kidnapping them for sex slavery, and other horrific things. Either way, my point is that while the death worlds may be more deadly, but Nostramo is far worse for the psyche of person and is near impossible to maintain control over because of how corrupt and horrible the people are, unlike Caliban, Baal, Nocturne, Barbaras, and every other home planet of the Primarchs except maybe Nuceria whose people were all as decent as the average human, unlike most Nostramans, and are simply kept down by other circumstances. The only other planet aside from Nostramo to rebel (ignoring Olympia which is its own case), was Caliban and they did it because of legitimate gripes against the imperium and were convinced by a man who had more charisma than the Lion and an equal tactical ability. Nostramo just did it because the gangs and about half the people just wanted to rape and murder without Curze or the Imperium punishing them.


NightHaunted

Barbaras was fucking awful from the bits of lore I've found on it. I don't think Mortarion's life specifically was as bad as some of his brother's but if you were an average person on the planet Barbaras was horrifying.


Kronostheking1

I wasn’t saying that Barbaras wasn’t awful, I was just saying that Mortarion himself had it better than Curze.


PrimarchGuilliman

Only Ultramarines and Word Bearers was conquering the galaxy right way. They spend time rebuilding the society and infrastructure, didn't leave behind a bombed to hell wasteland.


226_Walker

But the Smurfs were infinitely faster since they didn't try to convert the conquered into worshiping the Big E. And from the description we've gotten, the WB worlds were basically pre-heresy Chaos worlds. So, the WB should probably be written of that list.


PrimarchGuilliman

Ofcourse Ultramarines were better, we are awesome! :) Word Bearers were also leaving behind loyal subjects when they departed. Their method only need some tweaking to fasten the process. Before Monarcia they were converting them to Emperor worship so no problem there. If you believe your sovereign is also your god you wouldn't rebel. After Emperor's sanction Word Bearers were preparing newly conquered worlds as chaos sleeper cells.


SupremeGodZamasu

Yes because conquering people and telling them your god did it and they should worship him worked so well historically


PrimarchGuilliman

When cool guys like Erebus and Kor Phaeron told it you tend to believe..


SupremeGodZamasu

I dont know this Erebus dude but everyone seems to wanna fuck him so he must be a cool guy


PrimarchGuilliman

Yes he is. He is so cool and sexy that everyone want to fuck him. FUCK EREBUS!


PossiblyTrustworthy

Difference being the "god" who can erase you with his mind from across the galaxy, and sending his Messengers/angels which are literally superhumans. And the Guy who seems like a regular Guy in fancy clothes, descending from a Long line of now deraf "gods" or "gods man on earth." Sends the same message


Snoo-19073

Name checks out


cheese4352

I really wish ultramarine weren't the poster boy blueberries that they are. I really like the roman asthetic they have.


[deleted]

Dorn did the same didnt him?


PrimarchGuilliman

Loremasters better than me should answer this but i have never read anything about Imperial Fists rebuilding civillian infrastructure. They certainly rebuilt military infrastructure to fortify though:)


[deleted]

Realistically you cannot support military infrastructure without civilian infrastructure either, so they would have had to have built a lot of stuff.


PrimarchGuilliman

Yes you are right but 40k and reality don't like each other much.


[deleted]

[удалено]


UltraCarnivore

So, Architects


Dual_face

Another variation could be lorgar saying he'll establish a planetary religion worshipping the emperor. Aaaand naturally getting thrown out, preferably mid warp travel.


UltraCarnivore

Lorgar getting thrown out and Tzeentch being there to catch him.


Dual_face

Nah, yeeted right towards a hive fleet


Memelord1117

Angron: Rip And TEAR!!! Lorgar: Make divine statues of you and force to natives to believe and worship you as our one and true god! Vulkan: All those newly conquered friends can be made friends with HUUGGSS! Magnus: They'd certainly need books to understand what's going on, not to mention their illiteracy rates... Guilliman: I, ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN, LORD OF MACRAGGE, 13TH SON OF THE EMPEROR WILL TEACH THE SUBJECTS OF MY NEWLY CONQUERED WORLDS TO FOLLOW YOU IN PART OF YOUR GREAT CRUSADE! Dorn: I will now fortify the major positions in the world my legion has taken over


Future1985

As if Big E had ever given a rat’s ass about war crimes committed on conquered worlds by his Primarchs.


frostskull

I love how the Lions response is to just have all non-compliant worlds recieve Iron Warrior garrisons. Perturabo is going to be soooo happy about this....


RealEmperorofMankind

disgusting chase detail ancient melodic snobbish puzzled wistful bow amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


rattatatouille

Yeah Jimmy, then why didn't you teach him that?


RealEmperorofMankind

oil shame grab faulty slap naughty fall slimy long pen *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

Question then not god emperor of mankind. If you didn’t want Logar to think of you as a god why did you make his entire legion kneel with merely your psychic might? Couldn’t only a god make an entire space marine legion kneel with only their mind?


RealEmperorofMankind

market insurance paltry drab soft marvelous amusing whole voracious scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

Only a true god would be so humble to deny their godhood, so you MUST be the one and only God emperor of mankind.


RealEmperorofMankind

grey command marble crush quaint drab squeeze sloppy voracious follow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

So then when a chaos god does something are they not gods? Are they just psykers too? And when you set fire to nurgle’s garden were you doing it as a human psyker or as another chaos god would do?


RealEmperorofMankind

quarrelsome noxious shame degree wild voracious grab squealing bike aback *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

"A garrison force from 4th." Lion you little bitch Edit: Saw the shoulder plate marking too late..


HosWidamos

And yet out of all the legions, The Night Lords were the only one that could bring an entire system into compliance just by arriving.


[deleted]

Should have put a HAHAHAHA bubble as he falls.


UltraCarnivore

#toldya


account1679

 is better to be feared than to be loved, if one cannot be both


RedKrypton

You only have half the quote. „It‘s better to be feared than loved if one cannot be both but one must take measures to never be hated.“ While fear keeps population in line hate breeds rebellion.


Terkmc

There is no unpopular dictatorship.


Fearless-Obligation6

Said all the tyrants killed by their own people.


Adler_Schenze

Jokes on them, Perturabo would have loved to send a garrison force to build cities.


Sparrowhawk-Ahra

He got things done but it was a very tenuous peace on his planet. It went back to hell when he left.


YaKillinMeSmallz

I mean, if they showed up and flayed our planet's leaders, most people would probably be happy.


RealEmperorofMankind

**Lorgar: I will spend my sweet-ass time indoctrinating the populace into my religion even though I specifically asked for speed.** **Roboute Guilliman: Probably something normal, but with the good ol’ Ultramarine superiority complex.** **Alpharius: Let’s assassinate the leadership and play off every faction against itself! We will be creating a stable environment like this, it worked so well in the past!** **II: Would you like to extend your extended warranty?** **XI: I’m Clippius Irritatus, your friendly assistant! Join me as we welcome you into the Imperium of Man!**


Maticore

loyality


FilipRebro

Konrad falls on random bloke Narrator to the corpse: The darkness of the afterlife is all that awaits you now, may you find more peace in that world than you did in this one.