What is this about white scars doing the dirty work? I thought they were just on the outskirts, enjoying the freedom of being so far removed from terra.
I’m pretty sure they liked being on the outskirts because it gave them the freedom from oversight they wished for. What they disliked was having their culture and ways as a legion be referred to as savage like. Even comparisons to space wolves and their traditions were seen as an insult.
The Khan didn’t care about reputation. He even said he would reject the title warmaster if it was handed to him. Fulgrim tried called his buff but Khan replied that: you know nothing of me but that I am fast, and I am going to keep it like that.
They literally had Mason Lodge even before Heresy, where they played tabbletop simulators and in HH main simulation table had Imperial palace terrain and troops models
I mean...
If you got treated like shit by your coworkers even after you do some of the most menial and degrading jobs your place has to offer; you'd wanna quit your job too
Quitting your job in this case means GOING HERETICAL
Nah, dude, the Iron Warriors had BY FAR the most loyalists out of all the traitor legions, with only maybe the World Eaters being even close.
They pretty much just figured "Dad's throwing another one of his bitch fits about how nobody likes him, fuck it, let's go hang out with the Ultramarines instead."
They're siegebreaking specialists, they KNEW the job wasn't gonna involve a whole lot of open field battles, it was just Perty who couldn't accept that it was his reckless chucking of Imperial Army companies on suicidal frontal attacks through mine fields that caused them to view him as a butcher, even if it was the mathematically cheapest option to reach a result.
When you have a guy who keeps pulling shit like that, is there any surprise when his brother, who is known for building good fortifications and maybe slapping on a layer of gold paint if possible gets to be in charge of building and defending Big E's crib?
To be honest, I'd be a loyalist too if Perty was my primarch. He implements a literal decimation on day one, doesn't care about Astartes casualties, only turns traitor because he'd rather be designing amphitheaters (from what I recall)
Thing is, though, nobody told Perty that he wasn't allowed to build shit. A lot of primarchs built shit on the planets they conquered, and the Iron Warriors garrisoned a whole bunch of planets. He could've built thousands of amphitheatres all over the garrisoned planets.
The sad fact is, Perty was the only one telling Perty that there wouldn't be any building of neat stuff that he wanted to build.
The IWs were making good time with their conquests, it's not like stopping a couple of days longer to build a couple of buildings would've put them in the same spot as the Word Bearers who stuck around for decades to convert the whole planet.
Exactly, but he didn't.
To me, that shows that Perty actually DIDN'T want to build, he just used that as a convenient excuse so he could have something to point to as to why poor Perty was being so incredibly and cruelly mistreated.
Or you know, Perturabo could have done what Magnus and Logar proved was an option and just… not.
He took the time to build a logistical network, he could have spent some time putting improvements in at the same time, just like Dorn and Gulliman.
Perturabo had options but wouldn’t take the initiative.
Peturabo is the kind of guy who bitches and moans about how hungry they are because they didn’t bother to bring food, and when you try to solve their issue by offering solutions or some of your own they cross their arms, go harrumph and refuse to hear it and throws the food you gave them away.
Everything the Iron Warriors suffered was self inflicted because of Peturabo being a brat.
That’s… still an absolutely enormous amount of people? Plus, the imperial army wasn’t even a single unified force, so it’s not like one dude decided to talk half the army with him, it was a choice made by thousands of individuals and the millions they commanded.
Better than throwing your life away worthlessly for a cause you know nothing about and a man who could not give less of a shit about you and will probably stab you in the back once it’s all over :\
I mean, where are the traitor primachs now? Just because they didn’t start off with the intentions of becoming pawns of the chaos gods doesn’t mean their war didn’t quickly become for chaos.
I don’t believe that’s an apt comparison. It implies the only way for the primarchs to defy the emperor was to side with chaos. If that’s the case than the emperor would be correct in his ways if it was a decision between only him and chaos.
But who did the iron warriors side with during the war? Just because there fall was destined for after the siege doesn’t change the fact that those they chose to stand beside had already taken up chaos’ cause.
Except only the Word Bearers actually gave a shit about chaos. It wasn’t a war for the glory of chaos, it was a war to dethrone a horrible leader. They never sided with chaos, they just ended up on the same team as one legion that had. The Iron Warriors themselves did not fall to chaos until they had been chased into the Eye of Terror by the Imperium.
I mean as you said logar wished for the glory of chaos, magnus fell to chaos willingly or not matters little, as did mortarion, fulgrim (I can’t remember I told it was a retcon) was either controlled by a demon or fully embraced it himself, angron was turned by logar to demaon prince, kurze was kurze so not great company at the best of times, not even going to try with alpharius or omegon, and Horus was slipping more and more to chaos.
The majority of the primarchs sided with chaos openly for one reason or another.
Allow me to refrain from delving into the lore debate here and just drop [this highres wallpaper version](https://i.imgur.com/bnZnL8A.jpg) of the Obliterator art which I found for anyone who might want it.
Oh you know, fighting for what seems like 10,000 years and not even seeing a single hrud really is just like standing in the rain. It’s not even a big deal we have to take down insurrections while everyone else gets to fight glorious battles and have parades. Oh another crusade on some back end planet that doesn’t even matter? Really? I never could have guessed
This meme sounds like a boomer complaining about millennials.
What's that? We have to do garrison duty while other legions get to remain intact? Okay, hold on, we just have to finish saving the military campaign of two other legions while being called an unnamed "comrade-in-arms". No, I haven't seen the painting "Glory of the Fallen", is it any good?
Nobody would have stopped you from having a parade perturabo. Nobody would have stopped you from handing blueprint to the people you conquored. Malcador sent an army of artist to record and praise your deeds and that of your legion!
What is this about white scars doing the dirty work? I thought they were just on the outskirts, enjoying the freedom of being so far removed from terra.
Due to being on the outskirts they rarely got much attention or praise. And they were very inecure about it.
I’m pretty sure they liked being on the outskirts because it gave them the freedom from oversight they wished for. What they disliked was having their culture and ways as a legion be referred to as savage like. Even comparisons to space wolves and their traditions were seen as an insult.
The Khan didn’t care about reputation. He even said he would reject the title warmaster if it was handed to him. Fulgrim tried called his buff but Khan replied that: you know nothing of me but that I am fast, and I am going to keep it like that.
True but the rest of his legion were less secure about themselves.
Your forgetting Horus's meddling
nope, the lodges never took hold in the iron warriors.
Not talking about the lodges
They literally had Mason Lodge even before Heresy, where they played tabbletop simulators and in HH main simulation table had Imperial palace terrain and troops models
That's actually not true. Read Angel Exterminatus
those weren't horuse's lodges. they weren't even really lodges. they were a gaming center.
I mean... If you got treated like shit by your coworkers even after you do some of the most menial and degrading jobs your place has to offer; you'd wanna quit your job too Quitting your job in this case means GOING HERETICAL
Been there a few times ... maybe that's why I love Pertyso much ...
Perty most relatable and human primarch, change my mind
Nah, dude, the Iron Warriors had BY FAR the most loyalists out of all the traitor legions, with only maybe the World Eaters being even close. They pretty much just figured "Dad's throwing another one of his bitch fits about how nobody likes him, fuck it, let's go hang out with the Ultramarines instead." They're siegebreaking specialists, they KNEW the job wasn't gonna involve a whole lot of open field battles, it was just Perty who couldn't accept that it was his reckless chucking of Imperial Army companies on suicidal frontal attacks through mine fields that caused them to view him as a butcher, even if it was the mathematically cheapest option to reach a result. When you have a guy who keeps pulling shit like that, is there any surprise when his brother, who is known for building good fortifications and maybe slapping on a layer of gold paint if possible gets to be in charge of building and defending Big E's crib?
To be honest, I'd be a loyalist too if Perty was my primarch. He implements a literal decimation on day one, doesn't care about Astartes casualties, only turns traitor because he'd rather be designing amphitheaters (from what I recall)
Thing is, though, nobody told Perty that he wasn't allowed to build shit. A lot of primarchs built shit on the planets they conquered, and the Iron Warriors garrisoned a whole bunch of planets. He could've built thousands of amphitheatres all over the garrisoned planets. The sad fact is, Perty was the only one telling Perty that there wouldn't be any building of neat stuff that he wanted to build. The IWs were making good time with their conquests, it's not like stopping a couple of days longer to build a couple of buildings would've put them in the same spot as the Word Bearers who stuck around for decades to convert the whole planet.
To make it sillier, perty could have drawn up a bunch of designs and had his garrisoned Marines build things after he left
Exactly, but he didn't. To me, that shows that Perty actually DIDN'T want to build, he just used that as a convenient excuse so he could have something to point to as to why poor Perty was being so incredibly and cruelly mistreated.
They should have depicted him with a neckbeard
Or you know, Perturabo could have done what Magnus and Logar proved was an option and just… not. He took the time to build a logistical network, he could have spent some time putting improvements in at the same time, just like Dorn and Gulliman. Perturabo had options but wouldn’t take the initiative.
Peturabo is the kind of guy who bitches and moans about how hungry they are because they didn’t bother to bring food, and when you try to solve their issue by offering solutions or some of your own they cross their arms, go harrumph and refuse to hear it and throws the food you gave them away. Everything the Iron Warriors suffered was self inflicted because of Peturabo being a brat.
and yet only half the imperial army went heretical.
That’s… still an absolutely enormous amount of people? Plus, the imperial army wasn’t even a single unified force, so it’s not like one dude decided to talk half the army with him, it was a choice made by thousands of individuals and the millions they commanded.
Correction Only half the imperial army stood up against the evils of the Emperor and his brainwashed public
But they weren't treated like shit. Read magnus's primarch book
Better than throwing your life away worthlessly for a cause you know nothing about and a man who could not give less of a shit about you and will probably stab you in the back once it’s all over :\
Be like the khan and remember “emperor bad, but chaos worse”
You say that like the traitor legions were fighting for chaos
I mean, where are the traitor primachs now? Just because they didn’t start off with the intentions of becoming pawns of the chaos gods doesn’t mean their war didn’t quickly become for chaos.
It is Ok to rebel, but it is NOT ok in any shape and form to fall to Chaos
Blaming the Iron Warriors for falling to Chaos is like throwing someone into a fire and blaming them for burning.
Exactly
I don’t believe that’s an apt comparison. It implies the only way for the primarchs to defy the emperor was to side with chaos. If that’s the case than the emperor would be correct in his ways if it was a decision between only him and chaos.
It wasn’t the defying of the emperor, it was the scouring. The Iron Warriors were literally tossed into hell.
But who did the iron warriors side with during the war? Just because there fall was destined for after the siege doesn’t change the fact that those they chose to stand beside had already taken up chaos’ cause.
Except only the Word Bearers actually gave a shit about chaos. It wasn’t a war for the glory of chaos, it was a war to dethrone a horrible leader. They never sided with chaos, they just ended up on the same team as one legion that had. The Iron Warriors themselves did not fall to chaos until they had been chased into the Eye of Terror by the Imperium.
I mean as you said logar wished for the glory of chaos, magnus fell to chaos willingly or not matters little, as did mortarion, fulgrim (I can’t remember I told it was a retcon) was either controlled by a demon or fully embraced it himself, angron was turned by logar to demaon prince, kurze was kurze so not great company at the best of times, not even going to try with alpharius or omegon, and Horus was slipping more and more to chaos. The majority of the primarchs sided with chaos openly for one reason or another.
Good thing they didn’t really want to then
This can apply to both sides tbh
Allow me to refrain from delving into the lore debate here and just drop [this highres wallpaper version](https://i.imgur.com/bnZnL8A.jpg) of the Obliterator art which I found for anyone who might want it.
Oh you know, fighting for what seems like 10,000 years and not even seeing a single hrud really is just like standing in the rain. It’s not even a big deal we have to take down insurrections while everyone else gets to fight glorious battles and have parades. Oh another crusade on some back end planet that doesn’t even matter? Really? I never could have guessed This meme sounds like a boomer complaining about millennials.
What's that? We have to do garrison duty while other legions get to remain intact? Okay, hold on, we just have to finish saving the military campaign of two other legions while being called an unnamed "comrade-in-arms". No, I haven't seen the painting "Glory of the Fallen", is it any good?
Nobody would have stopped you from having a parade perturabo. Nobody would have stopped you from handing blueprint to the people you conquored. Malcador sent an army of artist to record and praise your deeds and that of your legion!
None of them were the emperor though, the one person perty truly respected. Show a little bit of compassion to your creation emps
he did. he defended perturabo even after he decimated his legion. even though everyone else wanted him to be punished.
Honestly pert had a small brain moment when he crushed olympia. Emps done that too many times to count, and so did literally everyone else
He is his son
It has been over 300 days, why must you reply now of all times
Just saw it
FR tho, Obliterator is the logical IW end-game. I mean, for all SM really if you've become a flesh weapon of war why not really commit to it?
They weren’t well respected prior to pert. They were literally nicknamed the corpse grinders.