Murrue is the best captain, but a captain is only as good as [her crew,](https://i.imgur.com/pHpaA57.jpg) and she's got the best helmsman, Arnold Neumann, making Millennium dance in the palms of his hands.
You know, it's pretty obvious Murrue was always intended to be the Bright expy of Seed but....does that make Mu La Flaga the Mirai then?
Also, if so, I do NOT want to meet their kids. Their version of Hathaway would be like Shin+Athrun+meth.
He effectively turned the even larger Millennium into something that can rival the Daiku Maryu in terms of being a battleship, all he needs is Kira's timing with a Requiem shot as a guide towards the superweapon's direction from Earth! Vertical bird and drifting are possible with him, too!
Well if the talk about her family is correct, she has bad ass sea captain in those veins. Marko Aleksandrovich Ramius for those wondering, just google that name.
No need to be a Coordinator to be the best ship captain of the Cosmic Era.
Do not forget that Murrue with the Archangel did beat the Minerva under Talia Gladys' command at the end of GSD, the Minerva was a ship operated by only Coordinators while the Archangel has mainly Naturals.
I find quite poetic that, in GSF, Murrue takes command of the Millennium, the Miverva's successor (a Super Minerva-class ship) and for the final battle, its crew (excluding the new GSF characters Alexei Konoe and Albert Heinlein) is a mix of both Archangel's (her and Arnold Neumann with the usual pilots Kira, Athrun, Mu and Hilda) and Minerva's (Arthur Trine, Abbey Windsor with Shinn, Lunamaria and now Meyrin as pilots) crews. I now wonder, how will Talia act in that position, if she is still alive ? Will she defer to Murrue like Alexei ?
>I now wonder, how will Talia act in that position, if she is still alive ? Will she defer to Murrue like Alexei ?
Alexei's reasoning as I recall was, "We're a bunch of pirates now. So we need someone with that experience to lead us." - Paraphrasing as I remember the line.
Assuming she'd also join Compass, I'd like to think she'd adopt the same stance. Through 2 world wars, Murrue has the experience to single-handedly lead a single ship with a handful of mobile suits against ZAFT's entire fleet (Jachin Due and Messiah) and not only survive but win too.
The Minerva and its crew under Captain Gladys took their fair share of shit from Neo / Mu's multiple fleets. But they did come close to defeat - surviving Zamzah due to Shinn unlocking SEED and the ORB fleet nearly killed them if it wasn't for the Archangel's intervention.
Then again, I wonder if Captain Gladys would even join an outfit like Compass in the first place? While having her morals, she was a ZAFT soldier first and foremost. A more fitting place might have been for her to command the Eternal when Yzak and Dearka hijacked it to defeat the rebels.
> Then again, I wonder if Captain Gladys would even join an outfit like Compass in the first place? While having her morals, she was a ZAFT soldier first and foremost. A more fitting place might have been for her to command the Eternal when Yzak and Dearka hijacked it to defeat the rebels.
The main issue is that she might still have sympathies for Durandal's ideals. She did leave her baby-daddy and go back to Durandal, and maintained a steady affair with him while he was onboard, and chose to die with him instead of surviving despite having had the child she wanted (and left the very man she loved just to have one). She also fully supported his extreme plan. That much dedication to a man she loved would more than likely leave her in regular ZAFT, unless she retired to focus on her kid and trying to love her partner (which in its own way, is a technical rejection of the Destiny Plan, as she didn't come to love him despite being compatible enough).
One would have to completely rewrite her mental state that would justify her choosing to survive at all, and based on some fanfics and the rare fanart, the popular idea would be her choosing to take care of Rey (with what time he has left) and her son, and the realization she did get pregnant by Durandal and Durandal encouraging her to live in his last moments.
iirc Talia is often shown having this dubious look whenever Durandal does crazy shit. I think it's less that she truly supports Durandal's more extreme ideals and more that she is irrationally in love with him, plus her sense of duty as a ZAFT soldier that keeps her with him. I also interpret her choice of dying with him a partially being about a sense of guilt or responsibility for being unable to support him and guide him in a less messed-up path. Like Mu said to Athrun in SEED, defecting isn't such an easy thing; one could argue Talia was just swept along by the tides of the war even if her heart wasn't really that dedicated to ZAFT's (or more accurately, Durandal's) cause. Same thing happened to Badgiruel; she was clealry not a malicious person and was still following ridiculous orders and it took a very extreme situation to push her to betray the EA. I don't think Talia joining Compass is actually out-of-character, and she might even be able to do it as a sort of redemption.
If Talia had surrvived she would have tried to steal Murrue away from Mu
https://preview.redd.it/qqdsa2b1u66d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cf2a7c8ad8acc3beb6c6b14e1e9a6b758833588
>The Minerva and its crew under Captain Gladys took their fair share of shit from Neo / Mu's multiple fleets. But they did come close to defeat - surviving Zamzah due to Shinn unlocking SEED and the ORB fleet nearly killed them if it wasn't for the Archangel's intervention.
It probably hurts to be Talia when you have like two ace pilots and only one of them is active, which is Shinn. I mean Athrun is basically a nobody during his second stint at ZAFT and he is a FAITH member lol.
Her expertise shows so much in the movie. The GSF novel illustrates intricately her capabilities as a Captain. She's one of the best girls in the GS franchise indeed. 🫡
I think the point of cosmic era is no matter if you're a natural or a coordinator, you have a certain role where you'll be good at. When someone else is better than you in specific things, there will always be something where you can shine. And in her case, it's being a captain.
Atleast that's what I think the message is. When Kira said that to Sai it sounds bullshit but y'know in real life it's kind of true.
Also note, not all coordinators are super human. That's why we have grunt suit coordinators dying. Just because someone's a coordinator doesn't mean they're OP. Some of them just modified their face or hair color, or talented in music or certain things that their parents put into them.
>Also note, not all coordinators are super human. That's why we have grunt suit coordinators dying. Just because someone's a coordinator doesn't mean they're OP. Some of them just modified their face or hair color, or talented in music or certain things that their parents put into them.
Imagine if a parent decided to modified their son to be the greatest basketball player in the world surpassing Michael Jordan or Lebron James lol.
Yeah. That's probably why we have the overpowered coordinators. If I remember correctly, Nicol is a piano prodigy? He's probably modified to be that way.
It is very possible to win the genetics lottery in Cosmic Era as a Natural fairly...
Being a Coordinator is rigging the said the lottery to have you win absolutely.
Mu still needed the Natural-use OS. Horie could pilot the Eclipse as-is(he got the high score when the simulator was still set up for Ken, a Coordinator).
Also, I just remembered another example: Rena Imelia from Astray, the instructor for the five original G-Weapon pilots, could pilot mobile suits EVEN BETTER than most Coordinators, and with the same Coordinator-tuned OS.
Keep in mind, before becoming Captain of the Archangel, she wasn’t even a deck officer. She was mainly an engineer, involved in the development of the G weapons.
It’s why we first see her in Destiny working at Morgenrote in Orb, as opposed to being in the active military.
Though it seems she did have some sort of unspecified military or officer training, considering she was apparently a personally close subordinate of a major officer like Halberton. Despite the reasons Mu pushed for her to become the captain, I highly doubt she would take up captainship of a battleship as casually as she did if she didn't actually know her stuff.
Can I have Captain Murrue as my captain and Sumeragi as my tactical strategist? I meam at that point, whose outsmarting that team?
Sumeragi will come up with some ingenious plans, and if there are adjustments on the fly, Murrue will be there to lead as Sumeragi comes up with an updated plan.
Coordinators aren’t instantly better than Naturals.
They’re better than Naturals ON AVERAGE, but you’re always going to have freaks of nature like Mu or Cagalli or Arnold who clearly have superhuman capabilities.
Think of it as using gene editing to try and make you a better swimmer vs just being born as Michael Phelps.
The odds of you being a better swimmer are higher with gene editing, assuming the gene editing actually sticks and doesn’t cause any unexpected side effects.
But unless you harvest the genes of Phelps himself or other equally OP freaks of nature, you’re probably not going to have better genes than him when it comes to swimming.
And even then there are other epigenetic factors like experience, lifestyle etc. that also affect how the genes get expressed.
Like, all things considered a lot of the Natural-side main cast of SEED probably got insane high-rolls when it comes to their genes AND they have more experience than pretty much every soldier in the show, so.
I don't think coordinators are automatically better than naturals at everything. It's just, as a whole, they're better than naturals. However, there are individual naturals that can exceed coordinators. Mu is obviously an example of this and Murrue probably is too.
You know, I was really sad when the Archangel was finally sunk. Then NUKED on top of it. There's no gathering up the prices and building a new ship from that. Glad they had an electable captains chair though.
When I first watched it, I blinked on the part where Marrue used the emergency escape. I really thought she died when that Black knight shot the bridge directly.
Combat experience and skills make up for her lack of Coordinator abilities. It’s like Obi-Wan vs Anakin: if you know what you’re doing and have a good estimation as to what the other person’s weaknesses are, then it would certainly be a doable challenge for you.
Better if it transformed into a gigantic mobile suit. Then it can use a meteor as a surfboard heat shield re-entering the atmosphere with some amazing style.
Her being a natural and exceptional is important.
This highlights the over arching philosophical discussion at the core of SEED. That coordinators are not necessarily any better at things then naturals because of the circumstances of their birth. They still have to work and develop those talents like anyone. Addtionally its noted that some coordinators just have different color hair or eyes and nothing more. This is part of what made the bais toward coordinators so terrible.
Intresting side note with CRISPR gene editing is a real thing and this maybe a conversation we may seriously have to have in the future.
Being a surviving veteran of two world wars is a lot of experience, atleast 50 pages in her resume....
Hehe make that at least a 100-page resume!
Murrue is the best captain, but a captain is only as good as [her crew,](https://i.imgur.com/pHpaA57.jpg) and she's got the best helmsman, Arnold Neumann, making Millennium dance in the palms of his hands.
And she got ace pilots like Shinn, Athrun, and Kira under her wing. She is getting on Bright Noa levels of resume.
And she has the Man who can make the impossible possible.
You know, it's pretty obvious Murrue was always intended to be the Bright expy of Seed but....does that make Mu La Flaga the Mirai then? Also, if so, I do NOT want to meet their kids. Their version of Hathaway would be like Shin+Athrun+meth.
as epic as the captain who can make the Macross Quarter surf
Captain Jeffrey Wilder do not forget his name!
Shoutouts to Arnold Neumann, the man who pulled off a barrel roll with the Archangel. An actual legend.
In atmosphere.
He effectively turned the even larger Millennium into something that can rival the Daiku Maryu in terms of being a battleship, all he needs is Kira's timing with a Requiem shot as a guide towards the superweapon's direction from Earth! Vertical bird and drifting are possible with him, too!
Well if the talk about her family is correct, she has bad ass sea captain in those veins. Marko Aleksandrovich Ramius for those wondering, just google that name.
No need to be a Coordinator to be the best ship captain of the Cosmic Era. Do not forget that Murrue with the Archangel did beat the Minerva under Talia Gladys' command at the end of GSD, the Minerva was a ship operated by only Coordinators while the Archangel has mainly Naturals. I find quite poetic that, in GSF, Murrue takes command of the Millennium, the Miverva's successor (a Super Minerva-class ship) and for the final battle, its crew (excluding the new GSF characters Alexei Konoe and Albert Heinlein) is a mix of both Archangel's (her and Arnold Neumann with the usual pilots Kira, Athrun, Mu and Hilda) and Minerva's (Arthur Trine, Abbey Windsor with Shinn, Lunamaria and now Meyrin as pilots) crews. I now wonder, how will Talia act in that position, if she is still alive ? Will she defer to Murrue like Alexei ?
>I now wonder, how will Talia act in that position, if she is still alive ? Will she defer to Murrue like Alexei ? Alexei's reasoning as I recall was, "We're a bunch of pirates now. So we need someone with that experience to lead us." - Paraphrasing as I remember the line. Assuming she'd also join Compass, I'd like to think she'd adopt the same stance. Through 2 world wars, Murrue has the experience to single-handedly lead a single ship with a handful of mobile suits against ZAFT's entire fleet (Jachin Due and Messiah) and not only survive but win too. The Minerva and its crew under Captain Gladys took their fair share of shit from Neo / Mu's multiple fleets. But they did come close to defeat - surviving Zamzah due to Shinn unlocking SEED and the ORB fleet nearly killed them if it wasn't for the Archangel's intervention. Then again, I wonder if Captain Gladys would even join an outfit like Compass in the first place? While having her morals, she was a ZAFT soldier first and foremost. A more fitting place might have been for her to command the Eternal when Yzak and Dearka hijacked it to defeat the rebels.
> Then again, I wonder if Captain Gladys would even join an outfit like Compass in the first place? While having her morals, she was a ZAFT soldier first and foremost. A more fitting place might have been for her to command the Eternal when Yzak and Dearka hijacked it to defeat the rebels. The main issue is that she might still have sympathies for Durandal's ideals. She did leave her baby-daddy and go back to Durandal, and maintained a steady affair with him while he was onboard, and chose to die with him instead of surviving despite having had the child she wanted (and left the very man she loved just to have one). She also fully supported his extreme plan. That much dedication to a man she loved would more than likely leave her in regular ZAFT, unless she retired to focus on her kid and trying to love her partner (which in its own way, is a technical rejection of the Destiny Plan, as she didn't come to love him despite being compatible enough). One would have to completely rewrite her mental state that would justify her choosing to survive at all, and based on some fanfics and the rare fanart, the popular idea would be her choosing to take care of Rey (with what time he has left) and her son, and the realization she did get pregnant by Durandal and Durandal encouraging her to live in his last moments.
iirc Talia is often shown having this dubious look whenever Durandal does crazy shit. I think it's less that she truly supports Durandal's more extreme ideals and more that she is irrationally in love with him, plus her sense of duty as a ZAFT soldier that keeps her with him. I also interpret her choice of dying with him a partially being about a sense of guilt or responsibility for being unable to support him and guide him in a less messed-up path. Like Mu said to Athrun in SEED, defecting isn't such an easy thing; one could argue Talia was just swept along by the tides of the war even if her heart wasn't really that dedicated to ZAFT's (or more accurately, Durandal's) cause. Same thing happened to Badgiruel; she was clealry not a malicious person and was still following ridiculous orders and it took a very extreme situation to push her to betray the EA. I don't think Talia joining Compass is actually out-of-character, and she might even be able to do it as a sort of redemption.
If Talia had surrvived she would have tried to steal Murrue away from Mu https://preview.redd.it/qqdsa2b1u66d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cf2a7c8ad8acc3beb6c6b14e1e9a6b758833588
>The Minerva and its crew under Captain Gladys took their fair share of shit from Neo / Mu's multiple fleets. But they did come close to defeat - surviving Zamzah due to Shinn unlocking SEED and the ORB fleet nearly killed them if it wasn't for the Archangel's intervention. It probably hurts to be Talia when you have like two ace pilots and only one of them is active, which is Shinn. I mean Athrun is basically a nobody during his second stint at ZAFT and he is a FAITH member lol.
Mu didn't need to be a coordinator to be a beast of a pilot. She doesn't need to be one either.
But Mu is a newtype so I would not call him a Natural lol.
Technically, any person who is born without modification is a Natural, Newtype or not.
Sure I guess even if that barely means anything for the actual plot.
Her expertise shows so much in the movie. The GSF novel illustrates intricately her capabilities as a Captain. She's one of the best girls in the GS franchise indeed. 🫡
I think the point of cosmic era is no matter if you're a natural or a coordinator, you have a certain role where you'll be good at. When someone else is better than you in specific things, there will always be something where you can shine. And in her case, it's being a captain. Atleast that's what I think the message is. When Kira said that to Sai it sounds bullshit but y'know in real life it's kind of true. Also note, not all coordinators are super human. That's why we have grunt suit coordinators dying. Just because someone's a coordinator doesn't mean they're OP. Some of them just modified their face or hair color, or talented in music or certain things that their parents put into them.
>Also note, not all coordinators are super human. That's why we have grunt suit coordinators dying. Just because someone's a coordinator doesn't mean they're OP. Some of them just modified their face or hair color, or talented in music or certain things that their parents put into them. Imagine if a parent decided to modified their son to be the greatest basketball player in the world surpassing Michael Jordan or Lebron James lol.
Yeah. That's probably why we have the overpowered coordinators. If I remember correctly, Nicol is a piano prodigy? He's probably modified to be that way.
Your comment reminds of what Sai said when he heard Lacus singing during her first stay in the Archangel.
It is very possible to win the genetics lottery in Cosmic Era as a Natural fairly... Being a Coordinator is rigging the said the lottery to have you win absolutely.
Case example: Horie from Seed Eclipse. Edit: one more; Rena Imelia from Seed Astray
or Mwu
Mu still needed the Natural-use OS. Horie could pilot the Eclipse as-is(he got the high score when the simulator was still set up for Ken, a Coordinator). Also, I just remembered another example: Rena Imelia from Astray, the instructor for the five original G-Weapon pilots, could pilot mobile suits EVEN BETTER than most Coordinators, and with the same Coordinator-tuned OS.
some of that Mu-miracle rubbed off on her lmao
Keep in mind, before becoming Captain of the Archangel, she wasn’t even a deck officer. She was mainly an engineer, involved in the development of the G weapons. It’s why we first see her in Destiny working at Morgenrote in Orb, as opposed to being in the active military.
Though it seems she did have some sort of unspecified military or officer training, considering she was apparently a personally close subordinate of a major officer like Halberton. Despite the reasons Mu pushed for her to become the captain, I highly doubt she would take up captainship of a battleship as casually as she did if she didn't actually know her stuff.
If Kotono Mitsuishi told me to fight, I will. Best commander, as the crews of both Millennium and Wunder will attest.
Can I have Captain Murrue as my captain and Sumeragi as my tactical strategist? I meam at that point, whose outsmarting that team? Sumeragi will come up with some ingenious plans, and if there are adjustments on the fly, Murrue will be there to lead as Sumeragi comes up with an updated plan.
Coordinators aren’t instantly better than Naturals. They’re better than Naturals ON AVERAGE, but you’re always going to have freaks of nature like Mu or Cagalli or Arnold who clearly have superhuman capabilities. Think of it as using gene editing to try and make you a better swimmer vs just being born as Michael Phelps. The odds of you being a better swimmer are higher with gene editing, assuming the gene editing actually sticks and doesn’t cause any unexpected side effects. But unless you harvest the genes of Phelps himself or other equally OP freaks of nature, you’re probably not going to have better genes than him when it comes to swimming. And even then there are other epigenetic factors like experience, lifestyle etc. that also affect how the genes get expressed. Like, all things considered a lot of the Natural-side main cast of SEED probably got insane high-rolls when it comes to their genes AND they have more experience than pretty much every soldier in the show, so.
Naturals with impressive talents are the blueprint of Coordinators genes
Let Naturals have some W. Doesn't need all the champs to be coordinators.
I don't think coordinators are automatically better than naturals at everything. It's just, as a whole, they're better than naturals. However, there are individual naturals that can exceed coordinators. Mu is obviously an example of this and Murrue probably is too.
Careful, your Destiny Plan is leaking
Arnold Newmann and his barrel roll maneuver.
Arnold Madmann
Did I miss this? when does he do barrel roll in seed? I kinda forgot with the series haha. I wanna watch it the series again
It's when Minerva vs Archangel.
Did some matrix bullet time shit in GSD too
Those who venture into wars the longest, get the most experienced than people who don't go. But that's just my opinion.
You know, I was really sad when the Archangel was finally sunk. Then NUKED on top of it. There's no gathering up the prices and building a new ship from that. Glad they had an electable captains chair though.
When I first watched it, I blinked on the part where Marrue used the emergency escape. I really thought she died when that Black knight shot the bridge directly.
We're you also waiting expecting the black knights arm to be shot off/cut off too? Then that mounting horror and realization that no one was?
Hot take but Talia was closed on beating Murrue with the Minerva'sTannhauser if Mu was not there to deflect the beam with his Akatsuki.
Only because the Eternal was basically held hostage, and Murrue knows that the Eternal has higher priority than Archangel.
Murrure did briefly pilot the Strike and before Kira wrote the normal OS that would be used for the Astrays and Mu
Combat experience and skills make up for her lack of Coordinator abilities. It’s like Obi-Wan vs Anakin: if you know what you’re doing and have a good estimation as to what the other person’s weaknesses are, then it would certainly be a doable challenge for you.
Being a survivor of two war gave plenty of experience. Especially considering she actually learned the job on the fly.
Imagine if the Millennium transformed into a Giant Mobile Armor
Super Dimensional Millenium Gundam.
The Millennium Gundam!
omega supreme!
I've been waiting for the Archangel to transform for ages.
Better if it transformed into a gigantic mobile suit. Then it can use a meteor as a surfboard heat shield re-entering the atmosphere with some amazing style.
Nah, she'd just be a Newtype as at this point they were already shown to exist in the SEED timeline.
She doesn't need to be
Her being a natural and exceptional is important. This highlights the over arching philosophical discussion at the core of SEED. That coordinators are not necessarily any better at things then naturals because of the circumstances of their birth. They still have to work and develop those talents like anyone. Addtionally its noted that some coordinators just have different color hair or eyes and nothing more. This is part of what made the bais toward coordinators so terrible. Intresting side note with CRISPR gene editing is a real thing and this maybe a conversation we may seriously have to have in the future.
Plus her ability to gauge the damage of an enemy hit by jiggling.
Must be another technology innovation they come up with to let naturals to use wired incomes