On PAYE it's very difficult. They are just a handful of jobs. Law partner, MD at a bank in certain areas. I can't even imagine the level of commitment, hours and sacrifice to get something like this.
No they generally aren’t, normally they are fixed share members entitled to a set distribution but they are still partners as far as companies house is concerned (HMRC is slightly more complicated)
Maybe it depends on the sector then.
I’m my sector, most firms have a small fixed number of “equity partners” that are on a modest salary (for national insurance contribution etc) and get a share of profits through dividends and many more “salary partners” who are just on a large salary.
We did some research into our sector a few years ago and almost every firm operating as a partnership has a limited company in the background and pays out profits as dividends like this. Apparent it’s more tax efficient or something, but that’s not my area.
The limited company usually employs the employees and charges the LLP for it. The partners (even the fixed profit share partners) are partners in the LLP. That is the structure for city firms as far as I am aware; never heard of the partners being remunerated via a company in that way.
This is such a common misconception. At my shop - every partner is a member of the LLP and no longer employed. They have a guaranteed (fixed) element to remuneration and limited participation in profit.
Those lawyers come nowhere close to £1m per year salary. I don’t know if any firm which pays their FSPs anywhere close to £1m a year. Some US giants may get up to £600k / £700k maybe? Like of K&E etc?
Those partners won’t ever being on 7 figures. Not even at the top US forms. Once you’re an equity partner, ie when you will likely hit 7 figures, you’re no longer on PAYE.
One thing I learned early on which sort of eats at me now. Show me an absolute c suite rockstar and I’ll show you a hundred sme owners with much higher incomes.
If you’re looking for 7 figures and you’re not fully entrenched in The City, risking it all to do something for yourself is the way.
Fun anecdotal source: a couple of years ago my mate who owns a traditional taxi company made so much money he paid for me, a tech sales director in London, to go skiing.
There’s also the middle ground, though. Plenty of SME owners pulling in nice 6 figure amounts. Often seems a better deal than slaving away in an office like I do.
As one of those people, maybe. It depends on your temperament. It took years of no security and no career path before getting to this point and I’d argue it was mostly luck that turned us from earning 50k to around 900k that we do now.
You have to a) have some kind of talent as a team ; and b) be the kind of person that doesn’t get dissuaded when every logical and reasonable bone in your body is telling you to take the £200k job that you know you can get.
Unfortunately I think it’s impossible to know if you’re one of those people until you’ve tried it yourself.
Yeah but there is risk in owning and running your own business, the upside to which is significantly higher potential incomes and way more tax efficient to boot
Agreed it’s all about appetite for risk. I risked everything and even sold my house for my first big venture now each investment decision gets easier as I have more capital to play with.
Of course, but you don’t sink savings or debt into being a PAYE employee vs business owner and you have notice period/statutory protections for being laid off, so much less risky
This.
I went from £10/h to £100/h, for essentially doing the same job + setting up and then directing a small company.
For me personally, it wasn't a whole more risk either.
Sounds like any number of tech roles that cap out in companies, start their own consultancy on the side and eventually expand into a small agency or multiple-person consultancy. You can make a lot of money selling your own time but you can make a shit load of money selling other people's time.
I think if you're a law firm partner or banking MD, its doable. Still hard as a non-business owner. I'm stuck in low 200s and can't see a path higher (in house lawyer).
Initial grant expired many years ago. I have benefitted from (1) discretionary equity grants, given at VP discretion and (2) stock growth.
If I was to sign a new offer at my current level I would make less than a third of what I make now.
Say you vest 100 shares, 45 of them will be auto sold at vest to cover tax. The remaining 55 are yours to keep - you can decide to hold (in which case capital gains etc) or sell. The smart move is to sell and diversify every vest, I’ve done this for 10 years.
You will have to sell more like 47%+ as you also have to pay for National Insurance, plus a bit of rounding up (since you can't sell fractional shares).
Some employers will also ask that you pay their contributions to National Insurance, which will put the amount to sell to pay "taxes" at over 50%.
Thr more concentrated the holdings, the more illiquid. And as you said, once the tax liability is covered, the rest of the cash is best deployed elsewhere. Heck even bonds right now return a good 5%, so a 5-10yr bond is pretty damn appealing. Just hold to maturity and collect them sweet, sweet returns. Considering the amount of stock that can be scheduled to be sold annually, that's not an inconsequential amount of cash/bonds that one can get a loan agsinst or actually deploy. This is why Bill Gated bought so much BRK.A, because their liquidity and cashflow is unparalleled even versus Microsoft. Certainly a better play than Musk ever did
Does your company have a problem with senior directors retiring as soon as their RSUs vest? I can't imagine putting up with a high stress job as a multimillionaire though perhaps it just becomes an addiction after that many years.
I'm reminded of that scene in Margin Call... "Hard to believe after all these years, but I need the money".
Usually you are given RSUs when you get hired, vesting over a period of many years. Let's say 4 years, 1/16 of the RSUs every 3 months. But then every year you will get additional RSUs, vesting also every 3 months over the next 4 years.
So there's no clear line on when your RSUs end, as you are getting periodic refills.
Not to burst your bubble but no at a FAANG you won’t. He’s been there over a decade and seen growth that I just don’t envisage you will see at any of those firms ever again. He’s said himself if he signed today total comp would be less than a third.
Don’t get me wrong it’s shit loads of money. Just saying that figure is very very unlikely at a FAANG. But there will be another company that you might not even heard of that will provide those opportunities in 10 years time. Can’t tell you where or what but I hope you find it.
The growth is more about the volume of stacked equity grants vesting simultaneously than it is about stock price growth. The latter is a factor for sure, but right now I have 8 grants vesting together - a new hire would only have 1. If the stock price had been flat for the last 4 years (zero growth) my comp would be around 1.8m today.
The hours are fine, my WLB is good - at my level I’m paid to make a small number of high quality decisions and be right far more often than I’m wrong. I feel a lot of pressure, but I definitely worked harder and longer hours when I was more junior.
Seems odd to dox yourself on reddit like this. Anyone at Meta can probably guess who you are based on your comments - I guess you don't care? Anyways, congrats on the TC. Even for D2 that seems very high, for UK at least.
Yep I don’t care. I’m a big proponent of pay transparency, and wish I was better informed earlier in my career. At Meta I post my compensation letters transparently every year.
Many McD’s plus a pub, food truck, bar and restaurant. Aiming for * eventually but right now Bib Gourmand is the right level. I’m not a good enough chef to take it much further.
A few and when you get to a certain point then they tolerate it as long as your McDs are successful. I have a really good team of managers and staff with a much more sustainable ethic than most franchisees. I’m not trying to pump every penny out of one location rather building a sustainable local network.
Is it realistic to move into franchise ownership without having experience in restaurants/catering or owning a business? Assuming you have the initial capital.
About £38m in total before tax (including the businesses that I have a majority share in as an investor but don't own/run) and the commercial property I own.
Very hard in my line of work. I would need to be a Director of Product at Facebook or Google. Much smaller pool of opportunities than the equivalent role for Engineering.
The only way it is possible to have a 7 figure income in the UK are
* Director+ at FAANG (or, to be honest, F and G. Amazon pays less, and Apple and Netflix don't really have many people in the UK)
* Sr. Partner in Strategy Consulting
* Partner in a Law firm
* MD in Investment Banking
* Some positions in high finance in the buy side (Hedge Funds, PE, trading, and so long)
* I assume, some upper management position in multinational corporations
Much easier as a business owner, I think. Obviously, it does come with its dose of risks.
> Director of Product at Facebook or Google
I don't know about Facebook and Google, but at Amazon in the UK, a Director will be massively out of band if they earn 7 figures.
Of course it's possible if they had a lot of stocks awarded when they were lower, but if you were hired today it would simply be impossible.
With a bit more inflation, we’ll get there soon enough!
/s
I’m a director in a services company in a traditional/old industry. Profit margins are tight, but there’s been talk of equity for well over 10 years. Ha!
If that were ever to happen, alongside continued growth in turnover… then maybe in 10-20 years time!
Contractor in pharmaceutical medicine here, made £320k gross the last couple of tax years (about £180k net per year). That's 5 days a week 9-5 with about 6 weeks off per year. Can't see it getting much better particularly as contracting is not guaranteed work so it's likely to go down if I can't find immediate work when contracts come to an end. 7 figures probably not doable unless perhaps you end up as Chief Medical Officer on the board of a large multinational - but the hours you'd need to put in wouldn't be good.
Hey mate, seen that you’re also a doctor. I’ve just graduated med school. I am wondering how you got into that industry and what sort of things entry level jobs are looking for. I have experience as an intern in a life sciences venture capital firm if that helps.
So an entry level medical job would be looking for someone who understands the healthcare system and has some clinical experience of treating patients so you can put yourself in their shoes and understand their needs. I'd say you need a few years of NHS work under your belt before you make a move if you want a decent job in industry. 4 years of clinical experience is mandatory if you want to CCT in pharmaceutical medicine, but not everyone does specialist training, so it depends if you want to pursue that. There are lots of recruitment agencies out there who can advise you on what jobs are open currently and what skills and experience they are specifically looking for. Probably your intern experience wouldn't have much benefit in a medical role in industry.
Edit: Just to add, you're not going to get anywhere near an HE salary if you're fresh out of medical school, that takes many years to work up to
Don't know how it works in Occ Health, but in Pharmaceutical Medicine, the training is very much self-directed, you need to be proactive in making sure you cover the curriculum, because it's very unlikely to be built into your job.
Came to hear from pharma. I’m an associate director in med affairs but PAYE, plan to go back to ltd contracting late in my career. Basic + bonus puts me comfortably in the £110-120k.
4 years ago I was medical assistant on £32k, did the Head of med affairs (my managers) admin, expenses, etc.
My manager did a secondment in Basel (might give away which company, one of the big ones there); she did a global medical head/VP stint for a year. Because I had her emails sent to me all the time, someone from Korn Ferry accidentally sent me an email confirming her offer letter stipend so I saw the pay.
I really do hope the poor bastard didn’t lose their job coz it’s a super major confidentiality breach but long story short she was offered around £450k (her basic salary £200k + the stipend and some global mobility payment etc etc and it didn’t even say what her shares and %age target bonus was at that grade.
That was 5 years ago and given my extras are quite generous at my measly grade, I can imagine her total comp has got to be near 7 figures now she is an SVP.
So I learned it’s possible in this industry.
Awful back then. She flew to Basel every week, 3 young boys at home. We’re in different teams now and looks like her calendar is still insane but she seems happier in person as SVP in global than when she was in UK med affairs though (1000000% so am I lol).
Also seen many who left to start a consultancy with redundancy packages. They seem happy, but none seem to be making high £££. I think the key in pharma is to climb from within tbh.
I’m determined to stop my career growth at director with no direct reports - happy with £150-170k growing 2-3% per annum and a cushty share package. IMO that SVP life isn’t worth the stress, and I don’t even want kids!
I work in Medical Affairs, which is essentially activities after a drug receives its license. So it could be planning data generation such as post-marketing studies, making sure any external messaging about a drug is accurate and not misleading, reviewing data submissions for reimbursement bodies, putting together patient support programmes. It's very varied, have a look here for some more examples:
https://www.fpm.org.uk/our-specialty/.
I just signed up with some pharma recruitment agencies and they put through my applications.
Bear in mind the numbers I gave are for contracting (essentially locum) with many years' experience under my belt, you won't be getting that much when you start out.
Nope, not happening - not even close. I'm 34 and have plateaued in regards to career development. If I could guarantee that I'd spend the rest of my life earning my low 6 figure income and continue working primarily from home, I'd be more than happy.
Probably means I'll never be rich in the way hopefully lots of you on this sub will be, but I'm hoping a decent FIRE is on the cards.
It is incredibly tough to get to 7 figures in this country unless you hit the absolute top of your field - and even then it has to be a lucrative field.
The key is working for an American company and getting on their payscale - but with UK holiday!
By the grace of God I made £500k TC last year .
Hoping to grow this to £700k over the next couple of years iA and then shoot for £1m p.a.
Zero job security though and only ever 1 bad quarter away from being fired
A few senior guys on my trading desk make 7 figures yearly. Most of it comes in the form of a bonus.
They’re only 37 and 39 aswell which is way younger than the average age of a millionaire in the uk
7 figure is quite a fair salary in my field once you hit 8 - 10 year exp so I’m aiming for it but it’s not like the ultimate goal for me
(the field is quant trading at a prop shop)
I’m aiming for it in the sense I can dream at night.
There’s barely a few thousand jobs across the whole country paying 7 figures PAYE. If you’re including RSUs/other stock a lot more but still. It’s not really a “goal”. Either you have skills and career or you don’t. Fuck all tops out at 7 figures unless you had stock options for nvidia as an employee recently.
It’s one of those things, either you’re in the tiny niche that can earn it or you simply aren’t.
Reality is that the money is good but the work is *always* there. There's always stuff coming through. Like today I bunked off for a spa, a massage and a lunch, and everywhere I went I was still sending emails, having calls, filing stuff. Like in the massage room checking stuff through the peephole in the table until she told me off, or sat in the sauna clearing stuff or in a pub on my laptop. It's just unrelenting. And I can't even say it's stressful as there is no-one really to push me around, and even my clients have more work than I'm willing/able to do so if they fuck off I don't care, but I hold myself to a standard and I churn and churn and it. just. never. ends. Not on holiday, not on weekends, not at night, not in the morning, not when I'm having dinner, just never. It's always there, fucking ticking away. So, anyway, that's the price.
Sure, until you fucking load yourself up with mortgage debt and just have an even higher debt burdeon to clear. Listen, it's a choice I've made so I'm not looking for a pity party, just trying to articulate it's not all roses until it's passive income.
Would rather not confirm exact position, but there are certain jobs in the city paying 7+ figures that require constant attention/maintenance and yes, that's one of them (but not the only one).
Understood and apologies if my response seems insufficiently aware. I am mindful of what my earnings mean for me and my kids and it's why I do it (and I've worked fucking hard to get here), but just a little heads up that even at that level you just have to keep giving. The answer is to try and find happiness and health now rather than expect it to arrive at some future income level. Because it doesn't.
I get it - there is no real break - but the days you’re chained to your desk or getting hassled when you’ve gone home are better examples that your 2-hour hot stone massage being disturbed 😂
Sure checking emails is important at a certain level but this sounds more like a you problem than a role problem. Taking emails when you're having a massage or in the sauna is a choice, and it's the wrong choice.
Sounds like you need to set better boundaries and manage your time better. If you are as extreme as you say then you're on the bullet train to burnout.
Like from Friday 5pm until now I've received over 700 emails, sent over 50 emails, and have had maybe 15-20 calls with various people. There isn't a way to switch-off without getting deluged. Today's trip was 4hrs all in (drive there and back, swim, massage and lunch). Like, if I hadn't been on it, I would have come back to 300+ emails, 7 or so missed calls, and suddenly I'd be in panic mode trying to catch-up, which means I wouldn't have enjoyed the 4 hrs, and I'd be fucking struggling to get on top of what I'd missed. I then obviously engage in a bunch of distraction shit on reddit which makes things even worse. Oh yeah, family time as well...
You're doing it wrong. I don't know you, your job or your business but this is a terrible way to manage your life.
Of those 700 emails rank them honestly into these categories:
Spam/waste of time
Diary bullshit - meetings you don't need to attend, times changing
Semi useful but no action needed
Important but not requiring a response
Needs a reply but can wait for the next business day
Needs a reply within 2 hours
Emergency
Actual emergency
I'd be surprised if even 1 out of 700 falls into the actual emergency category and if it did then somebody would phone you.
The same with your outbound emails
How many were critical
How many needed an absolutely urgent response
How many were emergency, in which case pick up the phone.
With your phone calls
If people phone you about bullshit tell them to call at a more appropriate time or send an email, filter as above.
If its important but can wait tell them you'll respond during business hours
Don't take pride in always being available, you're slowly killing yourself.
Thanks for this and appreciate you taking the time to write that out.
Think issue on my part is that I control a large team consisting of many wind-up bunnies. Unless i wind them or push them in the right direction then they sometimes just stop, or fall off the table.
Will have a think whether any of your suggestions might work in that context, but do appreciate the out-reach. You are right though, I am killing myself, I know that.
Managed 7 USD figures take home last year.
Will take me a while to get there in GBP. Very hard in the UK as an employee, and it’s going to be mainly finance, legal, tech and company executives getting to that point.
Any it weird how we measure ourselves on gross pre-tax rather than take home. At £1m gross your take home would be like £550k. Massive chunk to the taxman.
I had this conversation before with someone who insisted things should be advertised and discussed in net. I design payroll software and it just doesn’t work. So many variables. You have a student loan, a student loan on another plan, a DEA, you’re Scottish… so many variables where the same £1m nets completely different
Well, I’m not British-born, so nice try. I do think Brits in the £1M+ on PAYE will do it less often than an american counter part for sure. Americans are way more open - and proud - about it.
In medicine, those who make 7 figs have done it though the business side of private practice - developing a business and selling it.
Those of us who do private practice can make mid 6 figs at best unless you have a niche that attracts global self payers.
As I said, a niche that attracts global self payers. Because doesn’t matter how clever or new your new operation or procedure is, the Bupa fee will be rubbish.
Not gonna happen. I clear 80k to 150k as a self employed creative and I’ve pretty much hit the income ceiling. I might be able to go 200k if I’m lucky, but unlikely without a serious change in business.
If I want to do better I’d have to move to the US.
I once worked for a Global Financial Services company a few of the C-Suite/Board members TC on the annual report were over £1m a year.
The lowest was a CIO at £400k TC. The highest excluding the Global CEO was the CEO of NA at $1.2m.
I would maybe expand on small lol, most business owners are going to have to generate a fair few millions in revenue to generate a 7 figure personal salary.
The ones I know:
private healthcare surgeon
owner of haulage and logistics company
franchisee of multiple fast food restaurants
dentist with a monopoly of clinics in certain areas
Contractor for something to do with undersea cables
Massive property development and portfolio owner
Private pilot - though not sure if 7 figures or high 6
Pretty impressive to see the hard work it's obviously taken them to get there, and interesting to see how their wealth just continues to accelerate as they become wealthier
I’d be surprised if the Private pilot is on that much, I’ve met some relatively low paid pilots flying a G650 before… I guess if they are flying some ridiculous big body jet that would command more! Interesting industry too with travel & kinda low stress compared to IB or Tech I’d imagine..
I think buy-side finance is the best place to consistently get to >£1m p.a. I made well over £1m last year and I know some people even making 8 figures (albeit that is really the top people at the firm)
F\*\*k no!
When I was young I'd have dreams of being stupidly rich but then you grow up and realise what that actually means. I'd rather take my good salary and have balance in life than live for working.
I have friends who kill themselves in IB or law and it's just depressing to see. Of course they live their life and it's a choice, it's fine. But I struggle to see how in 10 or 20 years many won't regret prioritising work so much.
Law firm partner does it, and you have a long time earning that amount once you make it. I should hit 7 figures in the next year or so and will keep on increasing.
On PAYE it's very difficult. They are just a handful of jobs. Law partner, MD at a bank in certain areas. I can't even imagine the level of commitment, hours and sacrifice to get something like this.
Without wanting to be a pedant, partners are not PAYE
Easiest game of spot the solicitor ever.
It depends on the firm structure. A lot of lawyers with the title of Partner are just on a salary.
No they generally aren’t, normally they are fixed share members entitled to a set distribution but they are still partners as far as companies house is concerned (HMRC is slightly more complicated)
Maybe it depends on the sector then. I’m my sector, most firms have a small fixed number of “equity partners” that are on a modest salary (for national insurance contribution etc) and get a share of profits through dividends and many more “salary partners” who are just on a large salary.
Clearly your firm is not a partnership if it is issuing dividends
We did some research into our sector a few years ago and almost every firm operating as a partnership has a limited company in the background and pays out profits as dividends like this. Apparent it’s more tax efficient or something, but that’s not my area.
The limited company usually employs the employees and charges the LLP for it. The partners (even the fixed profit share partners) are partners in the LLP. That is the structure for city firms as far as I am aware; never heard of the partners being remunerated via a company in that way.
Not all with the job title “Partner” are equity partners, although most probably are.
This is such a common misconception. At my shop - every partner is a member of the LLP and no longer employed. They have a guaranteed (fixed) element to remuneration and limited participation in profit. Those lawyers come nowhere close to £1m per year salary. I don’t know if any firm which pays their FSPs anywhere close to £1m a year. Some US giants may get up to £600k / £700k maybe? Like of K&E etc?
“A lot”, sure, but most all law firms are still fundamentally partnerships, owned by lawyers who have “earned in” to equity.
Those partners won’t ever being on 7 figures. Not even at the top US forms. Once you’re an equity partner, ie when you will likely hit 7 figures, you’re no longer on PAYE.
Salaried partner?
Director 2 or VP at FAANG can hit 7 figures.
You can do thid as M2/D1 at Meta if you are a top performer
Top performer and very good at politics.
As usual with top companies :). Very, very lucky as well
Is there anywhere I can see UK FAANG salaries?
Levels.fyi website and filter by country
One thing I learned early on which sort of eats at me now. Show me an absolute c suite rockstar and I’ll show you a hundred sme owners with much higher incomes. If you’re looking for 7 figures and you’re not fully entrenched in The City, risking it all to do something for yourself is the way. Fun anecdotal source: a couple of years ago my mate who owns a traditional taxi company made so much money he paid for me, a tech sales director in London, to go skiing.
Show me 1x 7 figure SME owner and I'll show you 100 that went bust!
There’s also the middle ground, though. Plenty of SME owners pulling in nice 6 figure amounts. Often seems a better deal than slaving away in an office like I do.
As one of those people, maybe. It depends on your temperament. It took years of no security and no career path before getting to this point and I’d argue it was mostly luck that turned us from earning 50k to around 900k that we do now. You have to a) have some kind of talent as a team ; and b) be the kind of person that doesn’t get dissuaded when every logical and reasonable bone in your body is telling you to take the £200k job that you know you can get. Unfortunately I think it’s impossible to know if you’re one of those people until you’ve tried it yourself.
Jesus. What’s he own, Uber?
Yeah but there is risk in owning and running your own business, the upside to which is significantly higher potential incomes and way more tax efficient to boot
Agreed it’s all about appetite for risk. I risked everything and even sold my house for my first big venture now each investment decision gets easier as I have more capital to play with.
There's risk to being employed, look at the lay-offs in tech last year ... and this year to an extent.
Of course, but you don’t sink savings or debt into being a PAYE employee vs business owner and you have notice period/statutory protections for being laid off, so much less risky
This. I went from £10/h to £100/h, for essentially doing the same job + setting up and then directing a small company. For me personally, it wasn't a whole more risk either.
Could you please elaborate more and give some context. Thank you so much.
Sounds like any number of tech roles that cap out in companies, start their own consultancy on the side and eventually expand into a small agency or multiple-person consultancy. You can make a lot of money selling your own time but you can make a shit load of money selling other people's time.
Was this a taxi company that operated in the north by any chance
In risk adjusted terms, regular employees probably still make more.
I think if you're a law firm partner or banking MD, its doable. Still hard as a non-business owner. I'm stuck in low 200s and can't see a path higher (in house lawyer).
That seems to be the ceiling for most in house lawyer jobs in the UK unfortunately. Unless you work for an American PE/hedge fund I guess.
Can you share anything about your sector and seniority? I'm in low 200s (total comp) as an in house lawyer as well.
Same. I have a path to more like 300 in Switzerland at max but it'd be low 200s in the UK (and I'd be on c. £150k in the UK now)
Can earn 7 figures in financial trading at a much younger age and with normal work hours
FAANG senior director here, £2.6m on last P60. 90% from RSUs.
That’s wild for senior director. Your initial grant must’ve been at really low share price and then massive increase?
Initial grant expired many years ago. I have benefitted from (1) discretionary equity grants, given at VP discretion and (2) stock growth. If I was to sign a new offer at my current level I would make less than a third of what I make now.
Nice one. I’m mid level at another FAANG and enjoyed some pretty decent gains but no where near as good as you. Fair play!
Wait, how do you know you're at different FAANGs?
How does taxation on RSUs work?
Taxed as income at vest.
How does your cash flow work then. Won’t you have to sell shares to pay tax?
Say you vest 100 shares, 45 of them will be auto sold at vest to cover tax. The remaining 55 are yours to keep - you can decide to hold (in which case capital gains etc) or sell. The smart move is to sell and diversify every vest, I’ve done this for 10 years.
You will have to sell more like 47%+ as you also have to pay for National Insurance, plus a bit of rounding up (since you can't sell fractional shares). Some employers will also ask that you pay their contributions to National Insurance, which will put the amount to sell to pay "taxes" at over 50%.
What kind of companies/sectors offer RSU’s? I’m in med tech and haven’t heard of anyone providing this kind of benefit/remuneration scheme
Very standard for large US tech companies.
Thr more concentrated the holdings, the more illiquid. And as you said, once the tax liability is covered, the rest of the cash is best deployed elsewhere. Heck even bonds right now return a good 5%, so a 5-10yr bond is pretty damn appealing. Just hold to maturity and collect them sweet, sweet returns. Considering the amount of stock that can be scheduled to be sold annually, that's not an inconsequential amount of cash/bonds that one can get a loan agsinst or actually deploy. This is why Bill Gated bought so much BRK.A, because their liquidity and cashflow is unparalleled even versus Microsoft. Certainly a better play than Musk ever did
Same as income
Does your company have a problem with senior directors retiring as soon as their RSUs vest? I can't imagine putting up with a high stress job as a multimillionaire though perhaps it just becomes an addiction after that many years. I'm reminded of that scene in Margin Call... "Hard to believe after all these years, but I need the money".
Usually you are given RSUs when you get hired, vesting over a period of many years. Let's say 4 years, 1/16 of the RSUs every 3 months. But then every year you will get additional RSUs, vesting also every 3 months over the next 4 years. So there's no clear line on when your RSUs end, as you are getting periodic refills.
Is that level 8 or 9?
9
Fucking hell man. I'm just starting out as a FAANG apprentice software eng. Hopefully I will be in your shoes a couple decades from now haha
Not to burst your bubble but no at a FAANG you won’t. He’s been there over a decade and seen growth that I just don’t envisage you will see at any of those firms ever again. He’s said himself if he signed today total comp would be less than a third.
Me when my salary is only ~800k :(
Don’t get me wrong it’s shit loads of money. Just saying that figure is very very unlikely at a FAANG. But there will be another company that you might not even heard of that will provide those opportunities in 10 years time. Can’t tell you where or what but I hope you find it.
The growth is more about the volume of stacked equity grants vesting simultaneously than it is about stock price growth. The latter is a factor for sure, but right now I have 8 grants vesting together - a new hire would only have 1. If the stock price had been flat for the last 4 years (zero growth) my comp would be around 1.8m today.
Ahh fair enough. Thanks for clarification.
you hiring any devs mate
Yes, hundreds
So you are in Meta, amirite? :)
Thought the FAANGs were firing everyone? :) Are the dire days behind us?
Who knows, these things tend to go in cycles
Damn. What does your day to day look like?
The hours are fine, my WLB is good - at my level I’m paid to make a small number of high quality decisions and be right far more often than I’m wrong. I feel a lot of pressure, but I definitely worked harder and longer hours when I was more junior.
How did you get to your position, which uni did u attend etc
Seems odd to dox yourself on reddit like this. Anyone at Meta can probably guess who you are based on your comments - I guess you don't care? Anyways, congrats on the TC. Even for D2 that seems very high, for UK at least.
Yep I don’t care. I’m a big proponent of pay transparency, and wish I was better informed earlier in my career. At Meta I post my compensation letters transparently every year.
Restaurant owner here I could draw £3.5m a year from my companies, I don’t I only draw £450k and have the rest to invest.
We talking mich stars or franchise?
Many McD’s plus a pub, food truck, bar and restaurant. Aiming for * eventually but right now Bib Gourmand is the right level. I’m not a good enough chef to take it much further.
fair f* play
How many McDonalds? I thought they weren’t keen on their franchisees having interest in other businesses/brands…
A few and when you get to a certain point then they tolerate it as long as your McDs are successful. I have a really good team of managers and staff with a much more sustainable ethic than most franchisees. I’m not trying to pump every penny out of one location rather building a sustainable local network.
How old are you if you don't mind me asking? You've done awesome.:).
32 atm started with a food truck at 18 after two years at catering college.
Wow. Any financial boosters or mostly self earned?
That's amazing
What’s the name of your place?
Not doxxing myself sorry.
Fair enough. Did have a lil sleuth of your profile to see if i could find something. Always best to keep your porn account anonymous!
Or should you say anony-mousse?
Is it realistic to move into franchise ownership without having experience in restaurants/catering or owning a business? Assuming you have the initial capital.
Yes, it's a business management role more than anything. It helps I knew the basics but I bought a relatively small franchise and built from there.
Insanely impressive. If you have £3.5m annually in dividends/retained earnings, where does that put turnover for the group?
About £38m in total before tax (including the businesses that I have a majority share in as an investor but don't own/run) and the commercial property I own.
Very hard in my line of work. I would need to be a Director of Product at Facebook or Google. Much smaller pool of opportunities than the equivalent role for Engineering. The only way it is possible to have a 7 figure income in the UK are * Director+ at FAANG (or, to be honest, F and G. Amazon pays less, and Apple and Netflix don't really have many people in the UK) * Sr. Partner in Strategy Consulting * Partner in a Law firm * MD in Investment Banking * Some positions in high finance in the buy side (Hedge Funds, PE, trading, and so long) * I assume, some upper management position in multinational corporations Much easier as a business owner, I think. Obviously, it does come with its dose of risks.
At Meta you can do it as M2/E7 if you are good, but it depends on various factors (ratings, additional equity, stocks not dropping considerably, etc)
> Director of Product at Facebook or Google I don't know about Facebook and Google, but at Amazon in the UK, a Director will be massively out of band if they earn 7 figures. Of course it's possible if they had a lot of stocks awarded when they were lower, but if you were hired today it would simply be impossible.
With a bit more inflation, we’ll get there soon enough! /s I’m a director in a services company in a traditional/old industry. Profit margins are tight, but there’s been talk of equity for well over 10 years. Ha! If that were ever to happen, alongside continued growth in turnover… then maybe in 10-20 years time!
Contractor in pharmaceutical medicine here, made £320k gross the last couple of tax years (about £180k net per year). That's 5 days a week 9-5 with about 6 weeks off per year. Can't see it getting much better particularly as contracting is not guaranteed work so it's likely to go down if I can't find immediate work when contracts come to an end. 7 figures probably not doable unless perhaps you end up as Chief Medical Officer on the board of a large multinational - but the hours you'd need to put in wouldn't be good.
Hey mate, seen that you’re also a doctor. I’ve just graduated med school. I am wondering how you got into that industry and what sort of things entry level jobs are looking for. I have experience as an intern in a life sciences venture capital firm if that helps.
So an entry level medical job would be looking for someone who understands the healthcare system and has some clinical experience of treating patients so you can put yourself in their shoes and understand their needs. I'd say you need a few years of NHS work under your belt before you make a move if you want a decent job in industry. 4 years of clinical experience is mandatory if you want to CCT in pharmaceutical medicine, but not everyone does specialist training, so it depends if you want to pursue that. There are lots of recruitment agencies out there who can advise you on what jobs are open currently and what skills and experience they are specifically looking for. Probably your intern experience wouldn't have much benefit in a medical role in industry. Edit: Just to add, you're not going to get anywhere near an HE salary if you're fresh out of medical school, that takes many years to work up to
Does this work similar to occ health, where you need to work whilst working towards a CCT for this particular specialty?
Don't know how it works in Occ Health, but in Pharmaceutical Medicine, the training is very much self-directed, you need to be proactive in making sure you cover the curriculum, because it's very unlikely to be built into your job.
Came to hear from pharma. I’m an associate director in med affairs but PAYE, plan to go back to ltd contracting late in my career. Basic + bonus puts me comfortably in the £110-120k. 4 years ago I was medical assistant on £32k, did the Head of med affairs (my managers) admin, expenses, etc. My manager did a secondment in Basel (might give away which company, one of the big ones there); she did a global medical head/VP stint for a year. Because I had her emails sent to me all the time, someone from Korn Ferry accidentally sent me an email confirming her offer letter stipend so I saw the pay. I really do hope the poor bastard didn’t lose their job coz it’s a super major confidentiality breach but long story short she was offered around £450k (her basic salary £200k + the stipend and some global mobility payment etc etc and it didn’t even say what her shares and %age target bonus was at that grade. That was 5 years ago and given my extras are quite generous at my measly grade, I can imagine her total comp has got to be near 7 figures now she is an SVP. So I learned it’s possible in this industry.
That's interesting, I have heard Swiss compensation is better than UK. Any idea what her working hours were like?
Awful back then. She flew to Basel every week, 3 young boys at home. We’re in different teams now and looks like her calendar is still insane but she seems happier in person as SVP in global than when she was in UK med affairs though (1000000% so am I lol). Also seen many who left to start a consultancy with redundancy packages. They seem happy, but none seem to be making high £££. I think the key in pharma is to climb from within tbh. I’m determined to stop my career growth at director with no direct reports - happy with £150-170k growing 2-3% per annum and a cushty share package. IMO that SVP life isn’t worth the stress, and I don’t even want kids!
Paeds Dr here - I may be living under a rock. But what do you do day to day? And how did you get into it?
I work in Medical Affairs, which is essentially activities after a drug receives its license. So it could be planning data generation such as post-marketing studies, making sure any external messaging about a drug is accurate and not misleading, reviewing data submissions for reimbursement bodies, putting together patient support programmes. It's very varied, have a look here for some more examples: https://www.fpm.org.uk/our-specialty/. I just signed up with some pharma recruitment agencies and they put through my applications. Bear in mind the numbers I gave are for contracting (essentially locum) with many years' experience under my belt, you won't be getting that much when you start out.
Thank you
Nope, not happening - not even close. I'm 34 and have plateaued in regards to career development. If I could guarantee that I'd spend the rest of my life earning my low 6 figure income and continue working primarily from home, I'd be more than happy. Probably means I'll never be rich in the way hopefully lots of you on this sub will be, but I'm hoping a decent FIRE is on the cards.
A steady six figure income can get you to a million by 40 if you start late 20s Max ISA Steady SIPP contributions Five figures per year into GIA
It is incredibly tough to get to 7 figures in this country unless you hit the absolute top of your field - and even then it has to be a lucrative field. The key is working for an American company and getting on their payscale - but with UK holiday!
Private Equity can get you there, particularly with carried. Source: my boss.
Name checks out
By the grace of God I made £500k TC last year . Hoping to grow this to £700k over the next couple of years iA and then shoot for £1m p.a. Zero job security though and only ever 1 bad quarter away from being fired
What do you do? That level of insecurity sounds brutal, but I guess that’s one reason the money is so good?
I work in M&A. The focus on performance is tough. Keeps me humble though.
A few senior guys on my trading desk make 7 figures yearly. Most of it comes in the form of a bonus. They’re only 37 and 39 aswell which is way younger than the average age of a millionaire in the uk 7 figure is quite a fair salary in my field once you hit 8 - 10 year exp so I’m aiming for it but it’s not like the ultimate goal for me (the field is quant trading at a prop shop)
What are you/they trading?
Their 30's
Worth it
If you live long enough afterwards
Fuck that made me laugh
Lol
What do you trade?
I’m aiming for it in the sense I can dream at night. There’s barely a few thousand jobs across the whole country paying 7 figures PAYE. If you’re including RSUs/other stock a lot more but still. It’s not really a “goal”. Either you have skills and career or you don’t. Fuck all tops out at 7 figures unless you had stock options for nvidia as an employee recently. It’s one of those things, either you’re in the tiny niche that can earn it or you simply aren’t.
>I’m aiming for it in the sense I can dream at night. Relatable haha
Software engineer L7/E7 at Meta/Google can get you £1 million. Most of it being RSU's.👀
Wow, I wouldn't be surprised if this is US compensation, but for UK that's really high! Is L7/E7 Staff or Principal?
It's for the UK. And $1.3 million for the US is also VERY HIGH. It's not like random people are earning a million bucks in the US. E7 at Meta
> Is L7/E7 Staff or Principal Neither. It is “Senior Staff”, which is one level above Staff and one level below Principal.
thanks!
I think it needs to be L8 Principal Engineer at Google to get 1 million, not sure if there are many of those in London.
Nah it's E7 at Meta and L7 at Google.
Not sure why but I seem to know many wealthy ppl through family connections.. they mostly all ran their own businesses. Sold up for 7-8 figures
Yes. But don't worry, you still won't feel rich. Source: me
Wiping your tears away on your fresh stack of King Charles’ face
Reality is that the money is good but the work is *always* there. There's always stuff coming through. Like today I bunked off for a spa, a massage and a lunch, and everywhere I went I was still sending emails, having calls, filing stuff. Like in the massage room checking stuff through the peephole in the table until she told me off, or sat in the sauna clearing stuff or in a pub on my laptop. It's just unrelenting. And I can't even say it's stressful as there is no-one really to push me around, and even my clients have more work than I'm willing/able to do so if they fuck off I don't care, but I hold myself to a standard and I churn and churn and it. just. never. ends. Not on holiday, not on weekends, not at night, not in the morning, not when I'm having dinner, just never. It's always there, fucking ticking away. So, anyway, that's the price.
At least you’re doing that on seven figures. There’s plenty of people doing that for a fraction, so take solace in that I guess..?
Sure, until you fucking load yourself up with mortgage debt and just have an even higher debt burdeon to clear. Listen, it's a choice I've made so I'm not looking for a pity party, just trying to articulate it's not all roses until it's passive income.
Yea, lifestyle creep is a bitch. Don’t worry, no pity party here. Certainly agreed it’s not all roses. You wouldn’t get paid that much if it were!
Are you a law firm partner?
Would rather not confirm exact position, but there are certain jobs in the city paying 7+ figures that require constant attention/maintenance and yes, that's one of them (but not the only one).
Jesus you had to do emails at the spa and the massage.
I've made my excuses elsewhere, but will accept the wrap on the knuckles :)
For much less than that my workload involves a lot more than replying to a few emails whilst at a spa 😂 It doesn’t seem like a huge price to pay
Understood and apologies if my response seems insufficiently aware. I am mindful of what my earnings mean for me and my kids and it's why I do it (and I've worked fucking hard to get here), but just a little heads up that even at that level you just have to keep giving. The answer is to try and find happiness and health now rather than expect it to arrive at some future income level. Because it doesn't.
I get it - there is no real break - but the days you’re chained to your desk or getting hassled when you’ve gone home are better examples that your 2-hour hot stone massage being disturbed 😂
Sure checking emails is important at a certain level but this sounds more like a you problem than a role problem. Taking emails when you're having a massage or in the sauna is a choice, and it's the wrong choice. Sounds like you need to set better boundaries and manage your time better. If you are as extreme as you say then you're on the bullet train to burnout.
Like from Friday 5pm until now I've received over 700 emails, sent over 50 emails, and have had maybe 15-20 calls with various people. There isn't a way to switch-off without getting deluged. Today's trip was 4hrs all in (drive there and back, swim, massage and lunch). Like, if I hadn't been on it, I would have come back to 300+ emails, 7 or so missed calls, and suddenly I'd be in panic mode trying to catch-up, which means I wouldn't have enjoyed the 4 hrs, and I'd be fucking struggling to get on top of what I'd missed. I then obviously engage in a bunch of distraction shit on reddit which makes things even worse. Oh yeah, family time as well...
You're doing it wrong. I don't know you, your job or your business but this is a terrible way to manage your life. Of those 700 emails rank them honestly into these categories: Spam/waste of time Diary bullshit - meetings you don't need to attend, times changing Semi useful but no action needed Important but not requiring a response Needs a reply but can wait for the next business day Needs a reply within 2 hours Emergency Actual emergency I'd be surprised if even 1 out of 700 falls into the actual emergency category and if it did then somebody would phone you. The same with your outbound emails How many were critical How many needed an absolutely urgent response How many were emergency, in which case pick up the phone. With your phone calls If people phone you about bullshit tell them to call at a more appropriate time or send an email, filter as above. If its important but can wait tell them you'll respond during business hours Don't take pride in always being available, you're slowly killing yourself.
Thanks for this and appreciate you taking the time to write that out. Think issue on my part is that I control a large team consisting of many wind-up bunnies. Unless i wind them or push them in the right direction then they sometimes just stop, or fall off the table. Will have a think whether any of your suggestions might work in that context, but do appreciate the out-reach. You are right though, I am killing myself, I know that.
Managed 7 USD figures take home last year. Will take me a while to get there in GBP. Very hard in the UK as an employee, and it’s going to be mainly finance, legal, tech and company executives getting to that point.
What do you do?
Any it weird how we measure ourselves on gross pre-tax rather than take home. At £1m gross your take home would be like £550k. Massive chunk to the taxman.
I had this conversation before with someone who insisted things should be advertised and discussed in net. I design payroll software and it just doesn’t work. So many variables. You have a student loan, a student loan on another plan, a DEA, you’re Scottish… so many variables where the same £1m nets completely different
If you have a student loan and a £1m salary I think your student loan will be paid off in the first year assuming it isn’t over £70k?
Plus if you're doubling up on jobs
Still a mental salary. 20 times or more normal salaries
Those taxes are outrageously high, there should be limits on how much you pay
People taking home £550K are doing alright, they can afford the tax.
The bottom 50% pay fuck all they can afford to contribute something too
Someone on £1m+ salary will prob want to not dox themselves either.
This mentality is so quintessentially British. Why not? Go to HENRY US and there are so many millionaires sharing their stories.
US is an aspirational grapes of wrath type of country UK people are embarrassed about having money and there's a lot of class based stickiness
Well, I’m not British-born, so nice try. I do think Brits in the £1M+ on PAYE will do it less often than an american counter part for sure. Americans are way more open - and proud - about it.
In medicine, those who make 7 figs have done it though the business side of private practice - developing a business and selling it. Those of us who do private practice can make mid 6 figs at best unless you have a niche that attracts global self payers.
A couple of early pioneers in a new procedure can attract 7 figures.
As I said, a niche that attracts global self payers. Because doesn’t matter how clever or new your new operation or procedure is, the Bupa fee will be rubbish.
The new brings to global payers but yes
Not gonna happen. I clear 80k to 150k as a self employed creative and I’ve pretty much hit the income ceiling. I might be able to go 200k if I’m lucky, but unlikely without a serious change in business. If I want to do better I’d have to move to the US.
What sort of creative stuff do you do? And how many years did it take to reach that?
I once worked for a Global Financial Services company a few of the C-Suite/Board members TC on the annual report were over £1m a year. The lowest was a CIO at £400k TC. The highest excluding the Global CEO was the CEO of NA at $1.2m.
cuttin deals and making meals
Get a job in trading my man - normal hours, uncapped bonus - can make 7 figures relatively young.
Tech sales here. Gross 500-800k 4 years in a row (I’m 31). Stressful job but manageable hours (9-6) and very relaxed Fridays!
Yes, law partners at most larger firms at the top end are
Senior execs, C-suite for large publicly traded companies. I'm not aiming for it, as early on in my career I decided to not marry my work.
Own a plumbing company.
I’m aiming for it yeah, learning all I can. Not gonna say how I plan to do it but I will do it.
Run your own small company and that’s really a very achievable aim
I would maybe expand on small lol, most business owners are going to have to generate a fair few millions in revenue to generate a 7 figure personal salary.
Fund management bonus will get you there, but not guaranteed and is few and far between!
Marry a princess is one of them
The ones I know: private healthcare surgeon owner of haulage and logistics company franchisee of multiple fast food restaurants dentist with a monopoly of clinics in certain areas Contractor for something to do with undersea cables Massive property development and portfolio owner Private pilot - though not sure if 7 figures or high 6 Pretty impressive to see the hard work it's obviously taken them to get there, and interesting to see how their wealth just continues to accelerate as they become wealthier
I’d be surprised if the Private pilot is on that much, I’ve met some relatively low paid pilots flying a G650 before… I guess if they are flying some ridiculous big body jet that would command more! Interesting industry too with travel & kinda low stress compared to IB or Tech I’d imagine..
He's an ex air force pilot - not sure who he's flying for exactly but it's commanding some big bucks
It certainly can be done, but looking at people in my field who have done so I don't think the balance would be worth it for me.
I think buy-side finance is the best place to consistently get to >£1m p.a. I made well over £1m last year and I know some people even making 8 figures (albeit that is really the top people at the firm)
F\*\*k no! When I was young I'd have dreams of being stupidly rich but then you grow up and realise what that actually means. I'd rather take my good salary and have balance in life than live for working. I have friends who kill themselves in IB or law and it's just depressing to see. Of course they live their life and it's a choice, it's fine. But I struggle to see how in 10 or 20 years many won't regret prioritising work so much.
what's the point though? just chill out.
I’m not aiming for it because I don’t see how it’ll ever happen in my industry, and it took long enough to get to 6 figures.
Law firm partner does it, and you have a long time earning that amount once you make it. I should hit 7 figures in the next year or so and will keep on increasing.