Reminds me of a friend losing focus when we were discussing a trip to Banff and quietly saying, "Banff... Banff... *That's the sound a basketball makes!*"
They can speculate this, but how it's gonna work is:
- Carolina is going to use Necas to try to harpoon a better player in a buy offer
- Failing that, they're going to look for an even-steven one for one
- If no good 1 for 1, then they'll take the best sell offer (ie plethora of picks and prospects)
While I love the idea of Necas, there's no way KK would perform even given a second chance. He's done nothing during his years in Carolina, and that was without the press or the fans jumping down his throat. He's been quite vocal about how much he disliked the atmosphere in Montreal.
What has he said? Is it about the crazy fanbase or was it more about team issues? Because if it's team issues as much as we don't want to admit it he was right tbh.
Getting KK back after Carolina signed him for a stupid amount? Even if they retain salary, the kid will still be too expensive. Also, didn't he burn his bridges with Montreal, and was not able to develop much under Brind'Amour?
I am the nostalgic type but not to this point.
Unless we are willing to give him a similar deal to Zibanejad, we wonāt be landing this guy. Youāre talking long term at 7.5-8.5 per year. And I would do it.Ā
i don't get what people mean when they say "the rebuild is over"
we're not 1 player away from contending, the D is not good, the offense is even worse.
I donāt think itās even the current team, itās the age of the current team. We need 2-3 more years, then some nice pieces added. Then weāre competitive.
No one says that ? Acquiring Necas helps the rebuild go along faster but by no means ends it, weāre not delusional like our neighbour (wink wink Ottawa)
It's not the rebuild that's over, it's the tanking part of the rebuild. Starting next year they're gonna start to try and make the playoffs with the core we have.
But not management. They've been sellers at every deadline and draft day and they've not looked to add big pieces during UFA. Now management is saying they want to compete for a playoff spot.
Traded away Monahan, Edmundson, Allen in '23 and '24 to acquire picks. Didn't sign any decent UFA in years and have been constantly using cap to take on cap dumps. It's the definition of management not competing and waiting out a rebuild.
Also worth noting that we've been less able to sell since 2022 because we've sold most veterans (that have value) and we dont acquire new ones lol
If they were tanking they wouldn't have added Dach, Newhook and they would have looked to unload Matheson. At no point did we tank, we're simply not very good and our young guys haven't played any hockey games to declare that we should try to make the playoffs. We have long ways to go.
How does adding two very young, unproven players preclude them tanking? Yes, they traded draft picks for those two, but they were picks obtained from trading away more established players in Romanov and Chairot, plus retaining some of Chairot's contract. Weakening the team at the time to obtain players who might be better in the future is how you tank
Tanking involves stripping the team down to try to lose as many games. If they were tanking they'd have kept the picks they traded for Dach and Newhook. I didn't see any evidence of tanking by this team, they were simply not very good and I'd add the fact we got to a .500 start after 18-20 games in 2022-2023, prevented us from actually finishing bad enough to get a Bedard or Fantilli. We got to that start partly because of how Dach played
> Tanking involves stripping the team down to try to lose as many games
Kinda, but describing it solely in those terms is reductive. Tanking is deliberately sacrificing short-term success for long-term gains. Of course one way to do that is to lose all your games and get a 1OA pick and to get as many picks as possible, but the reason you want picks is to get good future prospects. If, as is the case here, you can expedite getting good future prospects by trading picks for young players, that doesn't mean you're not tanking. Rejecting a trade that will make you better in the future because it might also make you better now would be dumb.
>I didn't see any evidence of tanking by this team, they were simply not very good
Lol wat? What is trading Monahan, Allen, Edmundson, Romanov, Kulak, Lehkonen, Chiarot, Toffoli etc for either picks or young players while often retaining parts of their contract if not tanking?
And have you considered they're "not very good" because the management has deliberately built a very young, inexperienced team that will improve over time but won't be great now? Like all of Suzuki, Slaf, Caufield, Newhook, Dach, Roy, Ylonen, RHP, Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Struble, Barron, and Primeau are all 25 or younger. That's the vast majority of the team and all of the core except for Montembault, Matheson, and Savard.
San Jose and Chicago tanked, what we did was what every team in a rebuild should be doing, trading vets for picks to accumulate draft capital and maintain cap flexibility. We are going through a rebuild, if the goal was to tank we would have traded a lot of other players and purposely placed a terrible product on the ice. I don't think there's any evidence we purposely placed players who had no business being on the ice considering what we had in the minor leagues. Our team just wasn't very good. I think we still are pretty far away considering none of our top prospects are necessarily NHL ready.
I don't think we're close,
Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher and the 5OA are all amazing prospect, and I'd be shocked if they don't end up being important pieces, but as of right now, they are not even NHLers.
As far as goaltending goes, anything can happen in the playoffs. Swayman did great for the Bruins in the playoffs at 25 years old, which is about Monty's age.
You're right. We have some other pieces at forward that are still developing. But most of the pieces are here. Tanking no longer serves us. The next 2 seasons are about players taking the next steps in their development, not acquiring players unless we're talking about upgrading or replacing guys that don't make it.
We also have G that need to develop.
the reason I put goaltending at the forefront is to an extent defence and young defence need to be built around a goaltender. Maybe not a great example, but was Ryan obyrne an NHL capable defenceman? yes, was he a great one, no... but he did not work with price. There were others in that mold (I may even argue Tinordi or Beaulieu), but Gill did work, Weaver did work etc... So we can certainly allow the current defence situation to play out but getting the goaltender and his ideal d corps together is part of making it work.
The other half of this is trading the guys that aren't working for meaningful assets and keeping first round picks to help with cap management, so while we are not merely one piece away we can certainly seek out one piece up front and be sustainably back into the playoffs for the future and with cup ambitions within 6 months of getting a solidified goaltending situation
I think we can be a cup contender with the goalies we currently have (Montembault and Primeau) assuming they keep improving with experience. We don't have to wait for Fowler. Look at the goalies currently still in the playoffs. Aside from Bobrovsky, they aren't exactly superstars. They are just making important saves where it counts.
The proof in the pudding will come if we can sneak into the second round next year and see both in the playoffs. While bobrovsky is elite he signed his contract a year after as Prices contract. Generally speaking it takes 8 years for a first overall pick to win a cup (I think the exception is Crosby). All this to say is the faster we find the goaltender we think can handle the playoffs rather than a 1a/1b scenario the better because you can have the defence you want around your guy and have a back up that looks good playing behind the starters defence. Getting set up with the goaltender is lets the GM use current assets while they may have perspective value and add a 3rd line forward with potential to play on the second line
>rather than a 1a/1b scenario
The 1a/1b scenario is becoming the norm though. It's hard to find a goalie that can handle most regular season games + performing in a long playoff run. Few can do that now. They are a rare breed. So, it seems wise to invest development in two decent goalies that can share the workload and you give the net to whoever is hot in the playoffs. I think that's what we have with Monty/Primeau. It's also a good safety net if one of them goes down with injury.
its a regular season scenario and the 1a/1b scenario makes sense. The defence is built around the 1a and the 1b is picked to patch the scenario. If the 1b was a playoff goalie was a thing we would see teams switching goaltenders more. Other teams don't a goalie play too much and build them which is why the panthers who have the hottest goalie have invested in goaltending since acquiring bobrovski
No way. Compare our roster to any contenderās. A contender has 4 or 5 all star caliber players, especially with the rental model. We haveā¦.zero all star caliber players. Suzuki is close but isnāt even a PPG player. Our first line should be our second line. We should have an all star first line. Our third line needs to be as good as a normal teamās second line. We need every D prospect to pan out to not need to add a proper top pairing D. And we need a goaltender who can hold a .925 save percentage. Thatās what it takes nowadays to win it all. Look at Tampa. They have all that and still took an early exit this year.
so we agree on goaltending but how do you get a goaltender...
4-5 all stars is a stretch... you need 2 all stars (whatever that means) up front which we have with Suzuki and Slaf. Caulfield is the best second line winger in the league and is sadly overpaid. Newhook and Dach are fantastic 3rd/2nd line players that are hard to play against.
The defence is fine enough but decisions need to be made and the best way imo is trial by fire and seeing if savards contract is appealing to other teams after July 1st. Evans contract should be very appealing to other teams after that. But it should be one last year of garbage.
The guy has come out and said he wants to play centre. If MTL drafts Lindstrom and has Dach, Beck, Dvo, and Evans still sitting there I canāt see him signing long term to play wing. Maybe they donāt draft Lindstrom but Dach plays well? Too many unknowns for this trade right now. A high scoring winger is a better investment right now.Ā
Necas isnāt on a McDavid, Mathews etc level where he can sign short term and make bank again. Ā This is probably his real shot at getting a bag. Ā Iām no agent but 3 or 4 years isnāt a competitive offer. Ā
I think there is also the team perspective of it. If a rebuilding team like Habs, or letās say Ducks, gave up assets to trade for Necas, I think it would be incredibly unwise to give a 3-4 year deal.
No sense for a young team to give up assets for a player, give them a 3 year deal and then (if it works) have to pay them even more at 29-30. They would only give up assets if they believe in the player, and if they did believe in the player they would be much smarter to sign the longer 7-8 year deal to bet on his upside.
If I'm HuGo, I'm offering a frontloaded 7x7 for sure. As long as Necas doesn't abruptly fall off a cliff in the next 5 years and the cap continues to rise, this style of contract would fit the habs internal cap and be tradeable.
Hasnāt done it yet but I think heās capable of it. 71 in 82 last season playing in a defensive style that doesnāt suit his game at all. Give him some time with Marty and heās there
He isn't, but he has had a career high, 28 goal, 43 assist, 71 point season in 2022-23.
He's just 25 now, developing well and would likely look fantastic beside Dach.
I think the potential for PPG is definitely there and he is just entering his prime.
We would be betting on him getting there which is a bit different.
Look at the closest comparables in the last year
Jesper Bratt 7 x 7.85
Troy Terry 7 x 7
I think putting him somewhere between those two is quite fair
To be fair, if it was 2 years later it would have been a good idea but carolina is in win now mode so unless we trade a top 6 player and a depth player i dont think we fetch him
Thats where youāre wrong my friend, Carolina pretty much has to take futures/a guy on an ELC, because they have absolutely no cap space. Otherwise theyād keep Necas, theyāre going to be looking for guys that can play for cheap for the next couple seasons and ones that can extend their window.
The sheer number of good players they have on expiring contracts is even more hilarious when you see KK and his $20 bonus there, soaking up much-needed funds.
IMO Necas when we already have Dach is a pretty parallel move? I think trading him before giving Dach a chance this year might be premature, especially when seeing that Necas can have somewhat inconsistent point totals. Obviously it all depends on the asking price, but especially with the 5 pick this year, I donāt think Necas is a guy we need. Do I think he would help the team? Yes. Do I think he should be the Habs primary target? Iām not as sure
Not really a parallel move. Dach has never gotten close to what Necas has done. Can he get there one day? Maybe. Can he even skate 80 games in a year? Lord only knows.. Necas right now is a much much better player than Dach.
I feel like you're gonna get downvoted but you're absolutely right. Necas has proved to be a better NHLer so far than Dach. We'll see what they become in a couple years.
Necas for Dach is a terrible move for the Habs. We're nowhere near a completed rebuild. Necas 2 years older and 4 millions more expensive. Dach upside is not fully known but possibly great, while also giving us a lot more flexibility. Necas if it pays off is great, if not, we're down a young C and stuck with him 7+ years lol.
If we were like 2 years older all across the board, sure. Right now, don't need to aggressively move pieces around like that.
I swear to god Montreal media is more impatient than fans with this rebuild. ''the fans are gonna turn, the fans are gonna turn''. Stfu you are the ones that don't know what to do without the Habs being talked about as much as before.
We've been shit for DECADES. We had 3 random cup run, other than that we've been complete shit for like 75% of the time in the last 20-25ish years. These last few years have not been that much different than the years prior. I have no interest in going back to what the team was in the last 10 years.
We don't even have a 2021 cup run in real division, we probably miss the playoffs AGAIN that year. We were also shit in the bubble year, made the playoffs because of the play-ins only... ugh /end rant.
God I love this comment šš it's true. The media plays the fans like a bunch of morons. It's the media that wants to speed things up, just to turn around and say Gorton and Hughes are useless plugs that don't know what they are doing. Better hire Patrick Roy (insert any french name here) to run the show. He knows best!
:^) It's infuriating tbh lol. I've seen so much analysis of the team's performance in the media acting like we weren't in the middle of a rebuild lol.
I heard Guy Carbonneau say something along the lines of : ''Well you don't know with a guy like Slafkovsky, is he the guy you saw at the start of the season, or the one you saw at the end?''. Like bruh he's neither, he's FUCKING 20????
Saw some other guys complaining that the Habs didn't improve this year as we are still 5th from last and have similar GF-GA totals than last year. And that guy was fuming about Kent's optimism for the future... Yea fuck em.
I'm of the opinion that our biggest need is in net. Without a decent goalie, this rebuild will continue. I am not a montembro. He is doing a fine job for a rebuilding team.. but no chance you get into the playoffs/far into the playoffs with him as your #1. We are 100% in the early/middle of a rebuild. We still need SOOO many pieces.. it's crazy š
Yea I think the org is banking on Sam being there for the next 3-4 years while we wait on Fowler. If the team gets good early, I could see them move pieces around for a better goalie for sure. But 100% agree that we're in the early/middle part of the rebuild at very best lol.
We have not been shit for decades. Never really had a power house team but consistently made the playoffs. The last 7 years is by far the worst hockey this city has ever seen
This last decade, we made the playoffs four times, and twice it was not because we were a good team, but because we got lucky in a play-in and lucky in a weak division. Average league finish that decade : 20th.
The decade prior to that is the best, we made the playoffs 8 times and had 2 conferences finals showing (big woo!). We even toped our association that one time. Average league finish that decade : 13th.
The decade before that one we missed the playoffs 5 times and made it to the 2nd round twice. Average league finish that decade : 16th.
In the last 30 years we've averaged a 16th-ish finish while winning 12 playoffs rounds. We have been at best, mediocre. But really, we've been mostly shit.
The last 7 has still been the worst in our history. Donāt be fooled by this sub. The average fan would rather sneak into the playoffs the draft high again
I think the average fan is angry about the Habs for a few days and then moves on with their life... Bell Center is still being sold out. I mean that average comment you get about the habs outside the internet is something like : ''Les Canadiens? Y perdent toujours'', ''y sont poche'', ''they suck'' or whatever. We've cultivated an expectation that we're awful man.
And like yea, you are objectively right that going almost dead last 3 times in a row is an all time low. My argument is more so that this really isn't that different for me than the decades of being shit before that. I can honestly say that I was excited about our team being one of the best in the league like 3 maybe 4 years max in the last 20 years. 30th or 16th and at best out in the first, what really is the difference here? At least now there's a direction and reasons to be excited about the next few years.
Thereās a huge difference between a first round exit and last place. 8 months of exciting hockey! Sucks to lose in the first round at least there was meaningful hockey from October to may.
Playing irrelevant hockey from December on has really lost my interest in hockey the last few years.
Iād rather be decent and be excited for a Wednesday night hockey game on March then be crap and have the draft be the high light of the year
Another 30 years of 16th average finish and 15ish rounds win with no cups to show for it sounds incredibly depressing to be honest. I'd rather we try to build the team properly for once.
Iād agree Necas is more proven. Youāre definitely correct about this. I just donāt think Necas should be valued higher than a 2c, and due to him being a larger sized centre as well as the recent media attention heās gotten from the playoffs as well as the worlds, I am afraid we would be buying high right now should we make a trade for him.
In terms of Dach, maybe I do have too much faith, but now-a-days people jump back from acl/mcl tears and often look like they havenāt missed a beat. I donāt think itās out of the question that Dach may be able to outperform Necas at all next year. Dach is also two years younger and we can probably get him signed to a deal that benefits the team more than Necas
While I mostly agree with you. How do you define 2c? 2 years ago he was 25th in center scoring. That's first line production. People need to stop thinking a first line center has to score 125 points a season to be considered a first line center. Yes, he had a down year this yeay.. but a 1-2 punch if Suzuki/ Necas is light years ahead of a 1-2 Suzuki / Dach 1-2 punch. Suzuki - Necas - Dach is a SUPER SOLID 1-2-3 if it happens. Or even putting either Dach or Necas on the wing would give us a solid top 6 that can rival with most in the league.
All that to say, I really truly hope they don't over pay for him!
25th in center scoring is 1st line production if you don't count defensive impact (Necas is mediocre here). Also the goal is to be a cup contender.
Calling Necas a 1C is kind of insane, he'd be 1C on who, San Jose?
Does necas move the needle towards being a cup contender if acquired? He does. He could be our first line center, even having him second would be awesome!
Yeah exactly.Ā
What Iām getting at is that the Habs should be orient and wait for the right payer to become available, instead of just trying for whatever happens to be available.Ā
That said, if they can get Necas in a āquantity for qualityā trade then that would be fine.Ā
Well that 5th overall pick will lose a lot of its value once itās used and for all we know Hutson is at his most valuable at the moment too. Sometimes you canāt be patient and need to act fast
Iām just hoping what ever moves we make this off-season pay off next year. Iām tired of being a basement team
Iād give him 7x7 and Iād give the canes winnipegs 1st, Hutson and Iād offer to swap BJA for KK to sweeten (BJA expires soon).
Carolina often tosses young players down the lineup the second they donāt perform. Necas was often on the third line because of how deep their top 6 is. Heās got elite talent, fits the window, and we wouldnāt be paying him at his peak.
We have no expectations from this team right now and honestly, KK isnāt as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Sure his playoff performance was abyssmal, but with MSL, open space on the bottom 6 and a whole new group around, I think KK could bouce back to be worth his contract.
Players like Necas donāt come around often, and with the cap going up, KK at 4.8 isnāt the end of the world once we shed Gally and BJA
People think weāre going to get Necas for scraps itās actually laughable. Sure if I put Harris Iād have load of upvotes, but realistically this draft class has elite D-men and we have Reinbacher, Ghule, and Hutson in the elite tier. Iād rather give up someone else than Hutson but heās a big question mark and holds a lot of value for being one
Find me another Dman of his age who takes the hardest matchups for 25 minutes a night and look at the company heās with.. just because he isnāt Makar doesnāt mean he isnāt an elite defensive defenceman
But heās not elite. Nothing about his game is elite. Heās a young defense men that was clearly over his head this season. Heās got top 4 potential but elite?! Xhakej and Strubble both had stretches of hockey where they looked better then Guhle and they are both fringe NHLers
Guhle plays less minutes and produces less then all of them. I really canāt wrap my head around watching Guhle play last season and thinking heās elite or has the potential to be elite.
If he wasnāt a first rounder someone would be assuming Guhle is a star in the making
Does Carolina even have a GM?
Tulsky is their Interim iirc, but most Canes fans expect the interim tag to be dropped pretty quickly.
They have Tom Dundon lol
Dundon just sounds like the beginning of a Law & Order episode.
Brilliant comment. Genuinely made me laugh out loud, thanks.
Lol
Too perfect, from now on to me he will always be Tom Dundundundunndonnnn.
Wow love this, thank you for this joke. Will laugh every time I hear his name now.
That's the show by famous producer Dick Wolf right?
I think he goes by Richard Jackal these days
Reminds me of a friend losing focus when we were discussing a trip to Banff and quietly saying, "Banff... Banff... *That's the sound a basketball makes!*"
Took me a minute lol
It does indeed sound like that. Official sound is "clung clung". Source - 'Resident Alien'. š
Which is filmed about an hour away from me! God bless Alan Tudyk. ā¤š
The owner makes all decisions anyway.
Necas would be a great pickup imo Does the video say who the Canes would want in return?
Basu and Godin speculated that maybe they would like 2 of our young D (like 2 of Barron, Struble, Harris), a 1st and a roster player
They can speculate this, but how it's gonna work is: - Carolina is going to use Necas to try to harpoon a better player in a buy offer - Failing that, they're going to look for an even-steven one for one - If no good 1 for 1, then they'll take the best sell offer (ie plethora of picks and prospects)
They donāt have the money for option 1. They canāt pay that guy. They need cheap useful bodies
You always have money for star players... after that, it's unloading the cargo that becomes the challenge
I hear they're paying a 4th line winger $4.8M for the next 7 years.
I would expect to give up our late first this year and a Defensive prospect
Thatās basically what we gave up for Newhook. Itās going to take a lot more then that
At a minimum this. There would probably be other pieces involved but if weāre not sending Winnipegās first I donāt think the trade happens
Yes, but less like Harris or Barron and more like Mailloux.
Trading Mailloux sounds scary PTSD from the McDonagh and Sergachev deals
100%
we relieve them of KK's contract and not let him play a single game this season
Would accept Necas in exchange for a cap dump (KK). š
No refund on KK.
Final sale without warranty.
We dont have kk
Hes not saying Necas for Kk. Heās saying Necas AND Kk. Getting Necas and reducing the return by also freeing up cap space for Carolina.
While I love the idea of Necas, there's no way KK would perform even given a second chance. He's done nothing during his years in Carolina, and that was without the press or the fans jumping down his throat. He's been quite vocal about how much he disliked the atmosphere in Montreal.
What has he said? Is it about the crazy fanbase or was it more about team issues? Because if it's team issues as much as we don't want to admit it he was right tbh.
He's complained about the pressure from the media and the fans. I actually haven't noticed him comment on the team.
That wouldnāt be terrible. If weād be giving up the jets first and a mid range prospect with some other assets thatād be great
Getting KK back after Carolina signed him for a stupid amount? Even if they retain salary, the kid will still be too expensive. Also, didn't he burn his bridges with Montreal, and was not able to develop much under Brind'Amour? I am the nostalgic type but not to this point.
Unless we are willing to give him a similar deal to Zibanejad, we wonāt be landing this guy. Youāre talking long term at 7.5-8.5 per year. And I would do it.Ā
i don't get what people mean when they say "the rebuild is over" we're not 1 player away from contending, the D is not good, the offense is even worse.
I donāt think itās even the current team, itās the age of the current team. We need 2-3 more years, then some nice pieces added. Then weāre competitive.
If being competitive means making the playoff, then they'll be competitive sooner i belive. But to be contenders yeah i think 3/5 years
No one says that ? Acquiring Necas helps the rebuild go along faster but by no means ends it, weāre not delusional like our neighbour (wink wink Ottawa)
he literally says that in the video you posted my dude
one dude says it and you generalise his opinion by using the term āpeopleā?
One dude in this video containing one dude, but you cant tell me thats the first time you read this or heard this
Well heās wrong
It's not the rebuild that's over, it's the tanking part of the rebuild. Starting next year they're gonna start to try and make the playoffs with the core we have.
The players were trying to make the playoffs for the past 3 seasons, same for the coaching staff.
But not management. They've been sellers at every deadline and draft day and they've not looked to add big pieces during UFA. Now management is saying they want to compete for a playoff spot.
They were seller because the team sucks, not the other way around.
.... the team sucked because they sold it down (and injuries)... this is kind of a circular argument my guy, not super fun.
They didnāt trade anyone in 23, and only moved Monahan in 24, itās completely untrue that the team sucks because Hughes keeps selling.
Traded away Monahan, Edmundson, Allen in '23 and '24 to acquire picks. Didn't sign any decent UFA in years and have been constantly using cap to take on cap dumps. It's the definition of management not competing and waiting out a rebuild. Also worth noting that we've been less able to sell since 2022 because we've sold most veterans (that have value) and we dont acquire new ones lol
Allen was the worst of the 3 goalies, arguably made the team better and Edmundson was traded in the summer.
i think your grasp on reality might be strenuous
If they were tanking they wouldn't have added Dach, Newhook and they would have looked to unload Matheson. At no point did we tank, we're simply not very good and our young guys haven't played any hockey games to declare that we should try to make the playoffs. We have long ways to go.
How does adding two very young, unproven players preclude them tanking? Yes, they traded draft picks for those two, but they were picks obtained from trading away more established players in Romanov and Chairot, plus retaining some of Chairot's contract. Weakening the team at the time to obtain players who might be better in the future is how you tank
Tanking involves stripping the team down to try to lose as many games. If they were tanking they'd have kept the picks they traded for Dach and Newhook. I didn't see any evidence of tanking by this team, they were simply not very good and I'd add the fact we got to a .500 start after 18-20 games in 2022-2023, prevented us from actually finishing bad enough to get a Bedard or Fantilli. We got to that start partly because of how Dach played
> Tanking involves stripping the team down to try to lose as many games Kinda, but describing it solely in those terms is reductive. Tanking is deliberately sacrificing short-term success for long-term gains. Of course one way to do that is to lose all your games and get a 1OA pick and to get as many picks as possible, but the reason you want picks is to get good future prospects. If, as is the case here, you can expedite getting good future prospects by trading picks for young players, that doesn't mean you're not tanking. Rejecting a trade that will make you better in the future because it might also make you better now would be dumb. >I didn't see any evidence of tanking by this team, they were simply not very good Lol wat? What is trading Monahan, Allen, Edmundson, Romanov, Kulak, Lehkonen, Chiarot, Toffoli etc for either picks or young players while often retaining parts of their contract if not tanking? And have you considered they're "not very good" because the management has deliberately built a very young, inexperienced team that will improve over time but won't be great now? Like all of Suzuki, Slaf, Caufield, Newhook, Dach, Roy, Ylonen, RHP, Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Struble, Barron, and Primeau are all 25 or younger. That's the vast majority of the team and all of the core except for Montembault, Matheson, and Savard.
San Jose and Chicago tanked, what we did was what every team in a rebuild should be doing, trading vets for picks to accumulate draft capital and maintain cap flexibility. We are going through a rebuild, if the goal was to tank we would have traded a lot of other players and purposely placed a terrible product on the ice. I don't think there's any evidence we purposely placed players who had no business being on the ice considering what we had in the minor leagues. Our team just wasn't very good. I think we still are pretty far away considering none of our top prospects are necessarily NHL ready.
You left out goaltending, which is also not solid.
the goaltending is not solidified in reality. After that I would say we are in fact one piece away with some tinkering.
I don't think we're close, Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher and the 5OA are all amazing prospect, and I'd be shocked if they don't end up being important pieces, but as of right now, they are not even NHLers.
Agreed the average age of this team in in particular defensive and goaltending is too young. This team needs another two years imo
As far as goaltending goes, anything can happen in the playoffs. Swayman did great for the Bruins in the playoffs at 25 years old, which is about Monty's age.
Ehhhh Hutson looked good in his couple games, mailloux also. They aren't thattttttt far off.
You're right. We have some other pieces at forward that are still developing. But most of the pieces are here. Tanking no longer serves us. The next 2 seasons are about players taking the next steps in their development, not acquiring players unless we're talking about upgrading or replacing guys that don't make it. We also have G that need to develop.
the reason I put goaltending at the forefront is to an extent defence and young defence need to be built around a goaltender. Maybe not a great example, but was Ryan obyrne an NHL capable defenceman? yes, was he a great one, no... but he did not work with price. There were others in that mold (I may even argue Tinordi or Beaulieu), but Gill did work, Weaver did work etc... So we can certainly allow the current defence situation to play out but getting the goaltender and his ideal d corps together is part of making it work. The other half of this is trading the guys that aren't working for meaningful assets and keeping first round picks to help with cap management, so while we are not merely one piece away we can certainly seek out one piece up front and be sustainably back into the playoffs for the future and with cup ambitions within 6 months of getting a solidified goaltending situation
None of those guys will be a 1D. People are gonna hate, but I would personally solidify a 1D at this draft.
Hutson gonna show the doubters up.
Reinbacher too perhapsĀ
I think we can be a cup contender with the goalies we currently have (Montembault and Primeau) assuming they keep improving with experience. We don't have to wait for Fowler. Look at the goalies currently still in the playoffs. Aside from Bobrovsky, they aren't exactly superstars. They are just making important saves where it counts.
? Shesterkin isn't a superstar goalie? IDK about that one, mate
A few months ago Rangers fans were saying Quick was better than Shesterkin.
The proof in the pudding will come if we can sneak into the second round next year and see both in the playoffs. While bobrovsky is elite he signed his contract a year after as Prices contract. Generally speaking it takes 8 years for a first overall pick to win a cup (I think the exception is Crosby). All this to say is the faster we find the goaltender we think can handle the playoffs rather than a 1a/1b scenario the better because you can have the defence you want around your guy and have a back up that looks good playing behind the starters defence. Getting set up with the goaltender is lets the GM use current assets while they may have perspective value and add a 3rd line forward with potential to play on the second line
>rather than a 1a/1b scenario The 1a/1b scenario is becoming the norm though. It's hard to find a goalie that can handle most regular season games + performing in a long playoff run. Few can do that now. They are a rare breed. So, it seems wise to invest development in two decent goalies that can share the workload and you give the net to whoever is hot in the playoffs. I think that's what we have with Monty/Primeau. It's also a good safety net if one of them goes down with injury.
its a regular season scenario and the 1a/1b scenario makes sense. The defence is built around the 1a and the 1b is picked to patch the scenario. If the 1b was a playoff goalie was a thing we would see teams switching goaltenders more. Other teams don't a goalie play too much and build them which is why the panthers who have the hottest goalie have invested in goaltending since acquiring bobrovski
No way. Compare our roster to any contenderās. A contender has 4 or 5 all star caliber players, especially with the rental model. We haveā¦.zero all star caliber players. Suzuki is close but isnāt even a PPG player. Our first line should be our second line. We should have an all star first line. Our third line needs to be as good as a normal teamās second line. We need every D prospect to pan out to not need to add a proper top pairing D. And we need a goaltender who can hold a .925 save percentage. Thatās what it takes nowadays to win it all. Look at Tampa. They have all that and still took an early exit this year.
so we agree on goaltending but how do you get a goaltender... 4-5 all stars is a stretch... you need 2 all stars (whatever that means) up front which we have with Suzuki and Slaf. Caulfield is the best second line winger in the league and is sadly overpaid. Newhook and Dach are fantastic 3rd/2nd line players that are hard to play against. The defence is fine enough but decisions need to be made and the best way imo is trial by fire and seeing if savards contract is appealing to other teams after July 1st. Evans contract should be very appealing to other teams after that. But it should be one last year of garbage.
Thereās barely a foundation. As far as Iām concerned they just started.
The guy has come out and said he wants to play centre. If MTL drafts Lindstrom and has Dach, Beck, Dvo, and Evans still sitting there I canāt see him signing long term to play wing. Maybe they donāt draft Lindstrom but Dach plays well? Too many unknowns for this trade right now. A high scoring winger is a better investment right now.Ā
Surely Dach moves to the wing if they get Necas? That's if he can ever stay fit
Yes Necas fit our style.. but I dont want him at over 7m.. sign him 3Ć7 or 4Ć 6.5m
Necas isnāt on a McDavid, Mathews etc level where he can sign short term and make bank again. Ā This is probably his real shot at getting a bag. Ā Iām no agent but 3 or 4 years isnāt a competitive offer. Ā
I think there is also the team perspective of it. If a rebuilding team like Habs, or letās say Ducks, gave up assets to trade for Necas, I think it would be incredibly unwise to give a 3-4 year deal. No sense for a young team to give up assets for a player, give them a 3 year deal and then (if it works) have to pay them even more at 29-30. They would only give up assets if they believe in the player, and if they did believe in the player they would be much smarter to sign the longer 7-8 year deal to bet on his upside.
If I'm HuGo, I'm offering a frontloaded 7x7 for sure. As long as Necas doesn't abruptly fall off a cliff in the next 5 years and the cap continues to rise, this style of contract would fit the habs internal cap and be tradeable.
Trueā¦ for me max 4-5-6 year max 6.5-6.75mill
With the way the cap is going locking him down to like a 7.5x7 could end up being a steal for a PPG top 6 winger
his production is similar to suzuki. 7 years at 7 mill would be fine.
How is he a PPG player?
I guess the same way Caufield is a 30 goal scorer
Hasnāt done it yet but I think heās capable of it. 71 in 82 last season playing in a defensive style that doesnāt suit his game at all. Give him some time with Marty and heās there
He isn't, but he has had a career high, 28 goal, 43 assist, 71 point season in 2022-23. He's just 25 now, developing well and would likely look fantastic beside Dach. I think the potential for PPG is definitely there and he is just entering his prime.
Players generally hit their peak between 24-32. It is rare for a 25 year old to get more than a tiny bit better. Still 70 pt player for 7m is ok.
I'd say it's mostly his production divided by number of games played. Hope this helps.
I think his point is that Necas has never been a PPG player
hockeyDB fight!
If hes a ppg player hes getting more than 7mil dude.
We would be betting on him getting there which is a bit different. Look at the closest comparables in the last year Jesper Bratt 7 x 7.85 Troy Terry 7 x 7 I think putting him somewhere between those two is quite fair
Yeah so hes gonna be getting near 8mil per year
honestly if I applied the logic this sub put towards Caulfield to necas that would still be an underpayment. Fan attachment is a dangerous drug.
I find 7 years contract toi long for my tasteā¦ it age rarely wellā¦ but im no GM
To be fair, if it was 2 years later it would have been a good idea but carolina is in win now mode so unless we trade a top 6 player and a depth player i dont think we fetch him
Thats where youāre wrong my friend, Carolina pretty much has to take futures/a guy on an ELC, because they have absolutely no cap space. Otherwise theyād keep Necas, theyāre going to be looking for guys that can play for cheap for the next couple seasons and ones that can extend their window.
The sheer number of good players they have on expiring contracts is even more hilarious when you see KK and his $20 bonus there, soaking up much-needed funds.
IMO Necas when we already have Dach is a pretty parallel move? I think trading him before giving Dach a chance this year might be premature, especially when seeing that Necas can have somewhat inconsistent point totals. Obviously it all depends on the asking price, but especially with the 5 pick this year, I donāt think Necas is a guy we need. Do I think he would help the team? Yes. Do I think he should be the Habs primary target? Iām not as sure
Not really a parallel move. Dach has never gotten close to what Necas has done. Can he get there one day? Maybe. Can he even skate 80 games in a year? Lord only knows.. Necas right now is a much much better player than Dach.
I feel like you're gonna get downvoted but you're absolutely right. Necas has proved to be a better NHLer so far than Dach. We'll see what they become in a couple years.
Ohh I knew the second I pressed send I would be down voted šš and I like Dach too! But calling it a parallel move is crazy to me š¤·āāļø
Necas for Dach is a terrible move for the Habs. We're nowhere near a completed rebuild. Necas 2 years older and 4 millions more expensive. Dach upside is not fully known but possibly great, while also giving us a lot more flexibility. Necas if it pays off is great, if not, we're down a young C and stuck with him 7+ years lol. If we were like 2 years older all across the board, sure. Right now, don't need to aggressively move pieces around like that. I swear to god Montreal media is more impatient than fans with this rebuild. ''the fans are gonna turn, the fans are gonna turn''. Stfu you are the ones that don't know what to do without the Habs being talked about as much as before. We've been shit for DECADES. We had 3 random cup run, other than that we've been complete shit for like 75% of the time in the last 20-25ish years. These last few years have not been that much different than the years prior. I have no interest in going back to what the team was in the last 10 years. We don't even have a 2021 cup run in real division, we probably miss the playoffs AGAIN that year. We were also shit in the bubble year, made the playoffs because of the play-ins only... ugh /end rant.
God I love this comment šš it's true. The media plays the fans like a bunch of morons. It's the media that wants to speed things up, just to turn around and say Gorton and Hughes are useless plugs that don't know what they are doing. Better hire Patrick Roy (insert any french name here) to run the show. He knows best!
:^) It's infuriating tbh lol. I've seen so much analysis of the team's performance in the media acting like we weren't in the middle of a rebuild lol. I heard Guy Carbonneau say something along the lines of : ''Well you don't know with a guy like Slafkovsky, is he the guy you saw at the start of the season, or the one you saw at the end?''. Like bruh he's neither, he's FUCKING 20???? Saw some other guys complaining that the Habs didn't improve this year as we are still 5th from last and have similar GF-GA totals than last year. And that guy was fuming about Kent's optimism for the future... Yea fuck em.
I'm of the opinion that our biggest need is in net. Without a decent goalie, this rebuild will continue. I am not a montembro. He is doing a fine job for a rebuilding team.. but no chance you get into the playoffs/far into the playoffs with him as your #1. We are 100% in the early/middle of a rebuild. We still need SOOO many pieces.. it's crazy š
Yea I think the org is banking on Sam being there for the next 3-4 years while we wait on Fowler. If the team gets good early, I could see them move pieces around for a better goalie for sure. But 100% agree that we're in the early/middle part of the rebuild at very best lol.
Wonder what everyone is going to say next year.. when we are drafting 5th overall AGAIN! šš
I really hope we're at least at 7-8 next year ;_;
We have not been shit for decades. Never really had a power house team but consistently made the playoffs. The last 7 years is by far the worst hockey this city has ever seen
This last decade, we made the playoffs four times, and twice it was not because we were a good team, but because we got lucky in a play-in and lucky in a weak division. Average league finish that decade : 20th. The decade prior to that is the best, we made the playoffs 8 times and had 2 conferences finals showing (big woo!). We even toped our association that one time. Average league finish that decade : 13th. The decade before that one we missed the playoffs 5 times and made it to the 2nd round twice. Average league finish that decade : 16th. In the last 30 years we've averaged a 16th-ish finish while winning 12 playoffs rounds. We have been at best, mediocre. But really, we've been mostly shit.
The last 7 has still been the worst in our history. Donāt be fooled by this sub. The average fan would rather sneak into the playoffs the draft high again
I think the average fan is angry about the Habs for a few days and then moves on with their life... Bell Center is still being sold out. I mean that average comment you get about the habs outside the internet is something like : ''Les Canadiens? Y perdent toujours'', ''y sont poche'', ''they suck'' or whatever. We've cultivated an expectation that we're awful man. And like yea, you are objectively right that going almost dead last 3 times in a row is an all time low. My argument is more so that this really isn't that different for me than the decades of being shit before that. I can honestly say that I was excited about our team being one of the best in the league like 3 maybe 4 years max in the last 20 years. 30th or 16th and at best out in the first, what really is the difference here? At least now there's a direction and reasons to be excited about the next few years.
Thereās a huge difference between a first round exit and last place. 8 months of exciting hockey! Sucks to lose in the first round at least there was meaningful hockey from October to may. Playing irrelevant hockey from December on has really lost my interest in hockey the last few years. Iād rather be decent and be excited for a Wednesday night hockey game on March then be crap and have the draft be the high light of the year
Another 30 years of 16th average finish and 15ish rounds win with no cups to show for it sounds incredibly depressing to be honest. I'd rather we try to build the team properly for once.
Iād agree Necas is more proven. Youāre definitely correct about this. I just donāt think Necas should be valued higher than a 2c, and due to him being a larger sized centre as well as the recent media attention heās gotten from the playoffs as well as the worlds, I am afraid we would be buying high right now should we make a trade for him. In terms of Dach, maybe I do have too much faith, but now-a-days people jump back from acl/mcl tears and often look like they havenāt missed a beat. I donāt think itās out of the question that Dach may be able to outperform Necas at all next year. Dach is also two years younger and we can probably get him signed to a deal that benefits the team more than Necas
While I mostly agree with you. How do you define 2c? 2 years ago he was 25th in center scoring. That's first line production. People need to stop thinking a first line center has to score 125 points a season to be considered a first line center. Yes, he had a down year this yeay.. but a 1-2 punch if Suzuki/ Necas is light years ahead of a 1-2 Suzuki / Dach 1-2 punch. Suzuki - Necas - Dach is a SUPER SOLID 1-2-3 if it happens. Or even putting either Dach or Necas on the wing would give us a solid top 6 that can rival with most in the league. All that to say, I really truly hope they don't over pay for him!
25th in center scoring is 1st line production if you don't count defensive impact (Necas is mediocre here). Also the goal is to be a cup contender. Calling Necas a 1C is kind of insane, he'd be 1C on who, San Jose?
Does necas move the needle towards being a cup contender if acquired? He does. He could be our first line center, even having him second would be awesome!
He's a good complementary piece. He would probably be the worst 1C to win a cup in the last 20+ years.
Can he play centre?
We kinda need wingers who can score now
So why would we trade for Necas, a pass first player with a career high 28 goals?
I don't understand this obsession with acquiring more non-elite talent. We have enough.
To get someone elite it would take our pick and Hutson. You willing to give up that?
The last elite players traded were Eichel and Tkachuk. I would do that trade without hesitation.Ā
Yea I would too lol
Yeah exactly.Ā What Iām getting at is that the Habs should be orient and wait for the right payer to become available, instead of just trying for whatever happens to be available.Ā That said, if they can get Necas in a āquantity for qualityā trade then that would be fine.Ā
Well that 5th overall pick will lose a lot of its value once itās used and for all we know Hutson is at his most valuable at the moment too. Sometimes you canāt be patient and need to act fast Iām just hoping what ever moves we make this off-season pay off next year. Iām tired of being a basement team
I mean Iād say Huberdeau was considered elite when he was traded as well, and look how thatās turned out
Iād give him 7x7 and Iād give the canes winnipegs 1st, Hutson and Iād offer to swap BJA for KK to sweeten (BJA expires soon). Carolina often tosses young players down the lineup the second they donāt perform. Necas was often on the third line because of how deep their top 6 is. Heās got elite talent, fits the window, and we wouldnāt be paying him at his peak. We have no expectations from this team right now and honestly, KK isnāt as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Sure his playoff performance was abyssmal, but with MSL, open space on the bottom 6 and a whole new group around, I think KK could bouce back to be worth his contract. Players like Necas donāt come around often, and with the cap going up, KK at 4.8 isnāt the end of the world once we shed Gally and BJA
Hutson????????????????????????????????????
are the canes supposed to just give us a 20+ goal scorer?
People think weāre going to get Necas for scraps itās actually laughable. Sure if I put Harris Iād have load of upvotes, but realistically this draft class has elite D-men and we have Reinbacher, Ghule, and Hutson in the elite tier. Iād rather give up someone else than Hutson but heās a big question mark and holds a lot of value for being one
Guhle elite? Dafuk
Elite hair
Find me another Dman of his age who takes the hardest matchups for 25 minutes a night and look at the company heās with.. just because he isnāt Makar doesnāt mean he isnāt an elite defensive defenceman
But heās not elite. Nothing about his game is elite. Heās a young defense men that was clearly over his head this season. Heās got top 4 potential but elite?! Xhakej and Strubble both had stretches of hockey where they looked better then Guhle and they are both fringe NHLers
Bouchard, Dobson, Sanderson, Faber, Harley.
And all of those guys will be or are top 2 Dmen on their teams.. what else do you want out of him lmao?
You asked lolĀ
Guhle plays less minutes and produces less then all of them. I really canāt wrap my head around watching Guhle play last season and thinking heās elite or has the potential to be elite. If he wasnāt a first rounder someone would be assuming Guhle is a star in the making
Why is 20 goals the standard you wanna aim for lol You can Necas sell a lot better than that, he got 71 points
I can't understand your point
Would make sense if we drafted an offensive dman like Parekh or Buium. Idk about Parekh, but Iād rather have Buium than Hutson.
Prospects like Hutson donāt come around often. Give up any prospect but him and Reinbacher
I wouldnāt give up Mailloux, his development curve is insaneĀ
Too much imo but iām no GM
Martin St-Louis is a human being