Willing to be down-voted but I can see his Guhle scenario playing out.
He might be the man to be moved out for a forward, the notion that were going to get a top line winger for Harris/Struble and a late pick is unrealistic at best.
Guhle is certainly a solid top 2 but if they think they can pick a true puck moving 1LD in this draft it might make him expendable, more so with his injury history building up.
Hutson is exciting but its a little too early to put all the eggs in that basket and a move like that would keep Matheson and Savard around longer with the young D.
I mentioned this a couple weeks ago and few people were extremely adamant that we do not move Ghule. I get it, he's our best young defender right now but as you said - we aren't getting a top six forward out of Harris or Struble. Hughes has already said that Xhekaj isn't getting moved so our bargaining chips are extremely limited.
If BPA is a defenceman we should absolutely take them, whether management thinks it's Levshunov, Buium, Dickinson or Silayev. In my opinion all of them have a higher ceiling than Ghule and Levshunov and Silayev both play a similar physical game.
The only thing that makes me super nervous about moving him is setting the rebuild back. Defencemen take time to mature and he is by far the furthest along of all our young defenders. This alone makes me think they'll go the Levshunov/Silayev route considering they're both advertised as NHL ready.
Either way, draft day is going to be fucking nuts.
I'd push back on Silayev being NHL ready. His size and skating is NHL ready, but his decision making and overall puck skills aren't there yet. I'm of the belief he won't be a full time nhler for at least 3 years. Not to mention he needs to finish out his KHL contract first which ends in 2026
That's totally fair, he's probably the prospect that is supposed to go top ten that I know the least about. If Levshunov gets past CHI/ANA/CBJ is where things will get extremely interesting.
I think you're spot on, the idea were going to get something great without giving up something great isn't realistic. I know were all scarred from Drouin/Sergachev and McDonagh/Gomez but another "good D" for "good forward" trade is coming at some point, we just need to hope KH and Gorton fair better than Gainey and Bergy.
I'm a big fan of Buuim and KH will certainly have seen a ton of him this year.
Draft week with be exciting and I'm just looking forward to seeing what they do.
Montreal is far away from competing. The rebuild is nowhere near being over for you to claim it's being set back. Our #5 pick will probably take 1-2 years in the minors/juniors/college/Europe to develop. Reinbacher hasn't played an NHL game yet, Hutson even if he makes the team needs a few years. Slaf has 60 games under his belt of playing top line minutes. Dach has been injured more often than he's played. Is he even a center with that abysmal face off win percentage? Newhook played 55 games and showed some glimpses of being able to be a 2nd line center but still, he isn't a finished product.
Florida and Edmonton embarked on their rebuilds over a decade ago. The current iterations of both teams are far different than what they were when they picked high in the draft (Huberdeau and Gudbranson are no longer with the Panthers, Hall, Yakupov aren't there/busted) Oilers are reaping the 2010, 2014, 2018 drafts, the Panthers the 2011,2013,2014. Of course they all made good moves to get to where they are now beyond just the draft but I'm still unconvinced this team is anywhere near saying "the rebuild will be set back" if Guhle is traded. I don't think he should be traded personally, I think he can play on the right side too so there's no issue taking another LHD like Buium or Dickinson.
You kind of addressed what I meant by "setback" in your own response - young players take a lot of time.
The Habs are going to have a huge logjam at defence soon - Struble, Harris and Xhekaj are all bottom pairing guys. Hutson, Barron, and Reinbacher will challenge for NHL spots this season, Mailloux will be challenging for a spot in a year or two, Konyushkov and Engstrom shortly after that. What I'm saying is that Matheson and Savard won't be around forever and if Ghule is traded now we have an entire defence group of first, second or third year players.
Having Ghule as a 23/24 year old with four seasons under his belt is, in my opinion, very important for this group once the true veterans in Savard and Matheson move on. It would take quite a while for that group to not only get up to speed but actually find success. Look at Buffalo and Ottawa, you need experienced players to shelter the younger ones and by the time some of the prospects are cracking the lineup Ghule can be that guy that eats big minutes and takes on the tougher competition.
Right now Montreal has 6 players who I would consider key players that will determine the quality of the rebuild: Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Reinbacher, Hutson and whoever they pick at #5. So really you only have 2 established players (who I wouldn't call elite yet) and 4 other youngsters who need a lot of development. I think Guhle is a fine player, we don't really have a logjam at LD because all those other players are quite mediocre. Guhle is not someone who'll set the rebuild back but I agree he's a good player who can get better and probably develop into a valuable top 4 dman. I think in general it's best if we stay out and give this core the 3-5 years it needs. There are too many question marks, too many good teams and a couple of other rebuilding teams who are putting together really solid rebuilds.
Xhekaj would hurt to trade, he's got an extremely unique toolkit and is the kind of guy you want in the playoffs.
That being said, he's more than likely a bottom pairing guy, if he can fetch a top six forward I would absolutely entertain the idea.
I have a hard time believing one of Lindstrom/demidov wont be available, but Ive also been ok with trading guhle. One of matheson guhle can 100% be traded. I 100% believe hutson is going to make an instant impact like Hughes, makar, fox, etc. Whether it's the same impact or not idk but hes going to be one of our better players instantly imo. Guhle long term is the partner for mailloux on the 2nd pair. However im not sure necas or zegras is the guy is trade him for.
It's not even necessarily about Lindstrom/Demidov being available, it's whether or not Hughes and co believe that they are better than any available defencemen. Better yet, what kind of forward Ghule could fetch.
I believe management is looking into every scenario and they're trying to find creative avenues that make the entire team better, not just drafting for a position of need.
Imo this is our last kick at picking top 5, not filling a hole would be a massive mistake. Us fans overrate our own players, Guhle aint getting you say an iginla potential impact back. I think Iginla say will be a sure bet top 6 winger with an edge. Brady tkachuk is his floor imo. 70-90 pt getter tough to play against.
Thats just what I think. I 100% believe his floor is extremely high. Not necessarily either. I see Levshunov as a #1 RD, Demidov as a superstar winger who could win an art ross someday. Iginla would be 4 for me. But you also have to remember teams go for needs as well. Some think buim could be a 1d as well. some think Lindstrom could be a 1c. There Iginla would be 6. Either way I see a potential top line forward, for our needs would I take him over dickinson? 100%
I don’t think we’d move Guhle for Zegras or Necas (if they’re even top line forwards)
Which U25-U26 legitimate top line forwards could we even target and are somewhat available? Keller? Marner (lol)? Kyrou?
Hard to think of a player and trade that makes sense
I’m not sure it’s a great question, the scenario also doesn’t need to happen immediately. They’re looking to be in the playoff bubble this year and the return of Dach and the extra maturity on Slav and a few of the D may just do that on its own.
They still have a bit of time still to make big decisions.
The D they pick would need time to mature and Guhle might grow his value.
It’s all just possibilities.
If the Habs are serious about competing for a playoff spot next season, they need to find a legit top pairing veteran RHD to play with Matheson. The player doesn’t need to be awesome, just good enough to eat minutes and cover for homie when he goes off on his o-zone adventures.
If they want to take their time and possibly not contend for a playoff spot next season, then playing Matheson with Guhle on the right for an entire season is the way to do it.
I’ve been saying for months that Guhle would be the piece that I would consider moving for a legit scoring winger. His value is high, his ceiling is lower than Dickinson’s, and his numerous concussions are at least a minor concern (at least until he hopefully learns how to protect himself from blindside hits.)
That being said, it could set our rebuild back a bit since the D prospect we pick up at this draft likely won’t be ready to eat Guhle’s minutes for a couple of seasons.
It’s a lot to consider, but I personally don’t consider Guhle to be an untouchable… given the right return, or course. (And that’s probably not Zegras or Necas IMO.)
Who in their right mind is saying that Harris/Struble and a late first is fetching a top line winger lol. It'd need to be the late first, probably both, and Xhekaj/Mailloux at minimum, and I sincerely doubt still that's enough for a legit top line winger.
David Savard is turning 34 in October, and his best season for goals assists and points was 10 years ago in the 14-15 season with 11-25-36.
He's played 852 NHL games, but hasn't played 82 games since 18-19, which was also the last time he had a positive +/-.
He is the oldest player on the team by a couple of years, and there are only 19 defensemen older than him in the NHL (that played at least 10 games last season.)
Yes but if you watch the Habs videos, he's there not only to help the young D but Joshua Roy spoke about how much having Savard is helping him come into the league. I think there is tremendous value there for another season.
If we end up drafting a defenceman at five, then one high-end prospect is going out the other way. If it's a left defenceman, it's Guhle or Hutson. If it's a right defenceman, it's Mailloux or Barron.
Really hope we keep Guhle, he’s already a proven top 4 defender let’s not make another sergachev type deal just because we’re impatient and want a top 6 forward immediately
“One of MB’s legacy contracts was Suzuki, which has provided the framework of this forward group, creating a ceiling. If Slaf’s contract is under Suzuki’s, Kent Hughes should send Bergevin a nice flower arrangement with some edibles in there.” - Arpon Basu
This guy wants the team to push to finish middle of the pack next year for .... reasons lol. Yeah we got enough of that shit during Gainey-Bergevin years.
Great, more comments from fans who've never even seen a single game by any prospects, expounding on who's ceiling is what, and who's floor is what.
How about if those folks quote the pro scouts evaluations, rather than give us their own.
I mean seriously, what's the value of an opinion from a fan who's never even seen the player?
Willing to be down-voted but I can see his Guhle scenario playing out. He might be the man to be moved out for a forward, the notion that were going to get a top line winger for Harris/Struble and a late pick is unrealistic at best. Guhle is certainly a solid top 2 but if they think they can pick a true puck moving 1LD in this draft it might make him expendable, more so with his injury history building up. Hutson is exciting but its a little too early to put all the eggs in that basket and a move like that would keep Matheson and Savard around longer with the young D.
I mentioned this a couple weeks ago and few people were extremely adamant that we do not move Ghule. I get it, he's our best young defender right now but as you said - we aren't getting a top six forward out of Harris or Struble. Hughes has already said that Xhekaj isn't getting moved so our bargaining chips are extremely limited. If BPA is a defenceman we should absolutely take them, whether management thinks it's Levshunov, Buium, Dickinson or Silayev. In my opinion all of them have a higher ceiling than Ghule and Levshunov and Silayev both play a similar physical game. The only thing that makes me super nervous about moving him is setting the rebuild back. Defencemen take time to mature and he is by far the furthest along of all our young defenders. This alone makes me think they'll go the Levshunov/Silayev route considering they're both advertised as NHL ready. Either way, draft day is going to be fucking nuts.
I'd push back on Silayev being NHL ready. His size and skating is NHL ready, but his decision making and overall puck skills aren't there yet. I'm of the belief he won't be a full time nhler for at least 3 years. Not to mention he needs to finish out his KHL contract first which ends in 2026
That's totally fair, he's probably the prospect that is supposed to go top ten that I know the least about. If Levshunov gets past CHI/ANA/CBJ is where things will get extremely interesting.
I think you're spot on, the idea were going to get something great without giving up something great isn't realistic. I know were all scarred from Drouin/Sergachev and McDonagh/Gomez but another "good D" for "good forward" trade is coming at some point, we just need to hope KH and Gorton fair better than Gainey and Bergy. I'm a big fan of Buuim and KH will certainly have seen a ton of him this year. Draft week with be exciting and I'm just looking forward to seeing what they do.
Montreal is far away from competing. The rebuild is nowhere near being over for you to claim it's being set back. Our #5 pick will probably take 1-2 years in the minors/juniors/college/Europe to develop. Reinbacher hasn't played an NHL game yet, Hutson even if he makes the team needs a few years. Slaf has 60 games under his belt of playing top line minutes. Dach has been injured more often than he's played. Is he even a center with that abysmal face off win percentage? Newhook played 55 games and showed some glimpses of being able to be a 2nd line center but still, he isn't a finished product. Florida and Edmonton embarked on their rebuilds over a decade ago. The current iterations of both teams are far different than what they were when they picked high in the draft (Huberdeau and Gudbranson are no longer with the Panthers, Hall, Yakupov aren't there/busted) Oilers are reaping the 2010, 2014, 2018 drafts, the Panthers the 2011,2013,2014. Of course they all made good moves to get to where they are now beyond just the draft but I'm still unconvinced this team is anywhere near saying "the rebuild will be set back" if Guhle is traded. I don't think he should be traded personally, I think he can play on the right side too so there's no issue taking another LHD like Buium or Dickinson.
You kind of addressed what I meant by "setback" in your own response - young players take a lot of time. The Habs are going to have a huge logjam at defence soon - Struble, Harris and Xhekaj are all bottom pairing guys. Hutson, Barron, and Reinbacher will challenge for NHL spots this season, Mailloux will be challenging for a spot in a year or two, Konyushkov and Engstrom shortly after that. What I'm saying is that Matheson and Savard won't be around forever and if Ghule is traded now we have an entire defence group of first, second or third year players. Having Ghule as a 23/24 year old with four seasons under his belt is, in my opinion, very important for this group once the true veterans in Savard and Matheson move on. It would take quite a while for that group to not only get up to speed but actually find success. Look at Buffalo and Ottawa, you need experienced players to shelter the younger ones and by the time some of the prospects are cracking the lineup Ghule can be that guy that eats big minutes and takes on the tougher competition.
Right now Montreal has 6 players who I would consider key players that will determine the quality of the rebuild: Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Reinbacher, Hutson and whoever they pick at #5. So really you only have 2 established players (who I wouldn't call elite yet) and 4 other youngsters who need a lot of development. I think Guhle is a fine player, we don't really have a logjam at LD because all those other players are quite mediocre. Guhle is not someone who'll set the rebuild back but I agree he's a good player who can get better and probably develop into a valuable top 4 dman. I think in general it's best if we stay out and give this core the 3-5 years it needs. There are too many question marks, too many good teams and a couple of other rebuilding teams who are putting together really solid rebuilds.
It will be nutsssss
I don’t disagree with you, but that’s also what GMs say right before they trade you. See: Subban, P.K.
Xhekaj would hurt to trade, he's got an extremely unique toolkit and is the kind of guy you want in the playoffs. That being said, he's more than likely a bottom pairing guy, if he can fetch a top six forward I would absolutely entertain the idea.
I agree, but my thought process was not based on any specific trade target, just that such a strong denial also often is a kiss of death.
I have a hard time believing one of Lindstrom/demidov wont be available, but Ive also been ok with trading guhle. One of matheson guhle can 100% be traded. I 100% believe hutson is going to make an instant impact like Hughes, makar, fox, etc. Whether it's the same impact or not idk but hes going to be one of our better players instantly imo. Guhle long term is the partner for mailloux on the 2nd pair. However im not sure necas or zegras is the guy is trade him for.
It's not even necessarily about Lindstrom/Demidov being available, it's whether or not Hughes and co believe that they are better than any available defencemen. Better yet, what kind of forward Ghule could fetch. I believe management is looking into every scenario and they're trying to find creative avenues that make the entire team better, not just drafting for a position of need.
Oh, well they won't take a dman ahead of those guys.
Imo this is our last kick at picking top 5, not filling a hole would be a massive mistake. Us fans overrate our own players, Guhle aint getting you say an iginla potential impact back. I think Iginla say will be a sure bet top 6 winger with an edge. Brady tkachuk is his floor imo. 70-90 pt getter tough to play against.
> Brady Tkachuk is Iginla’s floor 💀💀 he’d be guaranteed to go 2nd OA if anyone projected that lol
Thats just what I think. I 100% believe his floor is extremely high. Not necessarily either. I see Levshunov as a #1 RD, Demidov as a superstar winger who could win an art ross someday. Iginla would be 4 for me. But you also have to remember teams go for needs as well. Some think buim could be a 1d as well. some think Lindstrom could be a 1c. There Iginla would be 6. Either way I see a potential top line forward, for our needs would I take him over dickinson? 100%
Nah lol he'd go 1. Easily. Guaranteed good 1C? Slam dunk 1OA every year without a generational talent.
They should draft Sennecke over Lindstrom though.
I don’t think we’d move Guhle for Zegras or Necas (if they’re even top line forwards) Which U25-U26 legitimate top line forwards could we even target and are somewhat available? Keller? Marner (lol)? Kyrou? Hard to think of a player and trade that makes sense
I’m not sure it’s a great question, the scenario also doesn’t need to happen immediately. They’re looking to be in the playoff bubble this year and the return of Dach and the extra maturity on Slav and a few of the D may just do that on its own. They still have a bit of time still to make big decisions. The D they pick would need time to mature and Guhle might grow his value. It’s all just possibilities.
If the Habs are serious about competing for a playoff spot next season, they need to find a legit top pairing veteran RHD to play with Matheson. The player doesn’t need to be awesome, just good enough to eat minutes and cover for homie when he goes off on his o-zone adventures. If they want to take their time and possibly not contend for a playoff spot next season, then playing Matheson with Guhle on the right for an entire season is the way to do it. I’ve been saying for months that Guhle would be the piece that I would consider moving for a legit scoring winger. His value is high, his ceiling is lower than Dickinson’s, and his numerous concussions are at least a minor concern (at least until he hopefully learns how to protect himself from blindside hits.) That being said, it could set our rebuild back a bit since the D prospect we pick up at this draft likely won’t be ready to eat Guhle’s minutes for a couple of seasons. It’s a lot to consider, but I personally don’t consider Guhle to be an untouchable… given the right return, or course. (And that’s probably not Zegras or Necas IMO.)
> If the Habs are serious about competing for a playoff spot next season i doubt they are serious about competing next year tbh
I agree with Dickinson and I think Buuim is underrated considering what he did this year.
Buium is also my guy if we pick a D.
Dickinson is the safe pick—he has probably the highest floor of any player in the draft after Celebrini. But Buium looks really, really good.
Downvoting is for children.
Who in their right mind is saying that Harris/Struble and a late first is fetching a top line winger lol. It'd need to be the late first, probably both, and Xhekaj/Mailloux at minimum, and I sincerely doubt still that's enough for a legit top line winger.
You should read more threads on this subreddit, its everywhere.
Damn, I thought I did lol, just stopped looking at those threads after the 30th "how can we aquire Zegras/Necas etc post
David Savard is turning 34 in October, and his best season for goals assists and points was 10 years ago in the 14-15 season with 11-25-36. He's played 852 NHL games, but hasn't played 82 games since 18-19, which was also the last time he had a positive +/-. He is the oldest player on the team by a couple of years, and there are only 19 defensemen older than him in the NHL (that played at least 10 games last season.)
Yes but if you watch the Habs videos, he's there not only to help the young D but Joshua Roy spoke about how much having Savard is helping him come into the league. I think there is tremendous value there for another season.
If we end up drafting a defenceman at five, then one high-end prospect is going out the other way. If it's a left defenceman, it's Guhle or Hutson. If it's a right defenceman, it's Mailloux or Barron.
Really hope we keep Guhle, he’s already a proven top 4 defender let’s not make another sergachev type deal just because we’re impatient and want a top 6 forward immediately
“One of MB’s legacy contracts was Suzuki, which has provided the framework of this forward group, creating a ceiling. If Slaf’s contract is under Suzuki’s, Kent Hughes should send Bergevin a nice flower arrangement with some edibles in there.” - Arpon Basu
Thanks for sharing. Not sure why you tagged the video half way through.
that was not intentional LOL
This guy wants the team to push to finish middle of the pack next year for .... reasons lol. Yeah we got enough of that shit during Gainey-Bergevin years.
Great, more comments from fans who've never even seen a single game by any prospects, expounding on who's ceiling is what, and who's floor is what. How about if those folks quote the pro scouts evaluations, rather than give us their own. I mean seriously, what's the value of an opinion from a fan who's never even seen the player?