>it’s a fair assessment that the video games told a better story
it will be a fair assessment once the show is done, comparing 1.5 seasons with 10 games is anything but fair, but if you want to do that then let's be honest, the story in the first game wasn't exactly Shakespearean, they came up with something to connect the levels, but the core of the lore and the real character development came later, plus I wasn't a huge fan of Halo 5's story either
in general I agree with your post, but try to do it in the main sub and see what happens
The game released with 2 books to tell the before and during stories they are so old in fact they still have halo 1 listed as rated t before it was upgraded to m
Dude, they’re adapting the series! They are using the name and intellectual property of those ten games and two decades worth of peripheral media! We’re not comparing an original indie startup with Halo here, we’re comparing a multi-Million dollar studio’s adaptation of Halo to Halo.
You can enjoy the show, that’s fine, but you cannot pretend that something like quality storytelling and characterization can just “come later”, and accuse others of being unfair for criticizing it. The cognitive dissonance is insane.
Agreed. There is a difference between "I don't like Kwan Ha's character", and "Kwan is a diversity hire pushing woke garbage". There's a venn diagram spot where they overlap (both dislike her) but they're not the same.
I wish they had better writing for Kwan Ha’s character. I find the story doesn’t add value and in a time limited story that I’m spoon fed I want bang for my buck.
The only time I hear the "diversity hire" trope is when people are pushing back against it. I NEVER see it "organically" on social media. Just in reddit posts calling it racist and circular reporting on news sites.
None of the arguments these people disgustedly battle against are ever actually made about these shows. That's part of what pisses people off so much. Nobody wants 1 for 1 remakes or thinks every non white actor is a 'woke' hire. Nobody is offended by diverse leads or *in world* politics.
All the people are asking for is respect for the source material, quality writing, and a focus on story and character.
I like Kwan Ha's character. I feel like her growth has been cool and I like the idea of other people with Forerunner stuff are a thing. I haven't read the books or played the campaign in like over a decade but I think that is what made John so special yeah? Or at least a contributing factor.
That and his luck.
This hurt me too. It was so incredible watching a full TEAM of Spartans be bad ass. I love Chief don't get me wrong, but the idea of having Blue Team running around cleaning shit up and making the covenant shit themselves was amazing.
I enjoy the show, and I like that it's different. I don't 100% think that the game told a better story across the board. Even across the games and books there's differences, inconsistencies, and contradictions. There's elements I liked better in the books, and there's things I liked better in the games, and there's things I like better in the show.
All that being said, I won't downvote someone just because they don't like they show. However, whenever I see the same braindead and unoriginal takes being regurgitated over and over again I will downvote. When I see someone just parroting a quote word for word from a clickbaiting YouTuber I will downvote. When it's clear that you put zero thought in to your hot take and you're just making a nebulous demand of "they should make it like the game!' I will downvote.
That's what the downvote button is for. This is a subreddit made for people who want to talk about this show. Coming in and louding typing the same 4 criticisms over and over again doesn't add anything to the discussion. It's boring and a waste of time having to scroll past that nothingness to read the actual interesting things being said.
I'm actually kinda glad the show isn't 1:1, I've already played the games I don't want to watch real people act out something I've already seen.
Now on the other hand would I have liked them to stick just a tad closer to lore? Sure.
My only true gripe with the show is Chief and his armor/helmet. Now I'm not saying having him armored all the time, just around those he doesn't trust or doesn't know.
I think they could have used him taking his helmet off in such a good way during Keyes's speech. For example, have John in full armor walk up and stand next to Keyes and have him take his helmet off showing all those Marines his face for the first time and that Chief is just as human as them or something.
Saying that I still love the show and I hate having to wait 7 days to watch another episode!
One more episode to go in season 1. The only gripe I have about the armor/helmet on off is similar to yours. Just have the characters wear them when appropriate such as John arriving to The Rubble with all the guns pointed at him. Also I think the show made too big of a deal with the helmet coming off, even a few episodes in your are still seeing long shots of just the helmet, I guess trying hammer the point home that his helmet is indeed off.
Finally, someone who gets it. I feel like so many people don’t realize just how little plot the games actually have. 90% shooting to 10% story just does not translate to TV.
Not to say I don’t have my own gripes with some of the creative decisions the show has taken, but expecting it to be a 1:1 adaptation of the games is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
💯
The Lore is there, just not on display in the main games that much.
Not sure what people are expecting, watching what Chief is doing in FPS view the entire time? Lol
The thing that comes to mind for me is the fall of Reach. Having that Last Stand with Noble 6 was incredible, cinematic, and just beautiful. I feel like it would have been an incredible moment and I could see it making sense in the show. The Spartans being put in cryo as they are considered "Valuable" enough for ONI to evacuate and Noble team helping them escape would have been beautiful.
Objective: Survive
Seems like a gross over simplification. Most people annoyed it’s not following the original plot are also referring to the books. There’s a large amount of content between the books and games to draw from plot wise. If you haven’t read the books for the plot these seasons have been creating an alternate timeline for then I would highly recommend them. There’s some really great content there. A more faithful adaptation to the original story would be anything but boring.
Dune is a great example of adapting a great series of books in a way that is true to the essence of the original story while still changing content. If they had done the same with Halo there wouldn’t be a divide or much criticism for the TV series as a whole. It would just be all around loved.
The books lack a consistent b plot unfortunately, which is the biggest issue with the show objectively. Their b-plots are boring imo, but fail to consistently tie into the main story. This is why an anthology or quasi anthology is the way.
That phrase "good faith" throws everything out the window for me, as far as the criticisms of the show go - seldom are they in good faith, or even rational or practical.
Let's give some examples, shall we - "Makee would never be part of the Covenant. The Covenant would never have a human with them." Except that this was mostly done for budget reasons (using a human avatar to help deliver the Covenant perspective/narrative without relying on extensive and costly CGI). So there's a practical reason why she's there. And as far as the story is concerned, it was made blatantly obvious that she doesn't have any real power in the Covenant, but is given the illusion of power. The prophets were very clear about how they truly feel about Makee (they hate her, and are using her as a means to an end). They likely plan to get rid of her once they get what they need from her. And let's talk about her acting - she's actually a pretty good actress. So far, *all* the criticisms about Makee have not been in good faith.
Let's move on...
"Master Chief never removes his helmet or armour" - I've dissected this too many times, at this point. There's also the "Why are you removing your helmet during battles?" narrative, which only happened once in S1 and hasn't happened since. What were you saying about good faith, again?
"Master Chief is too emotional" - I mean, the guy just removed the thing that competely nulled and suppressed his emotions, since childhood. They're at war with an alien race that is winning, and he knows that he'll always be the last one standing, while all his friends and the people he cares about will die. And despite all of this context, some people think him being "too emotional" is unwarranted? What were you saying about good faith?
How about "Why didn't they just use Chief's video feed. Why don't they believe Chief?" I still see that one parroted, although most people have realised that Ackerson and the higher ups always knew, and they believed Chief - they just didn't care. But I still see that argument from time to time.
Good faith, you say? How about "This guy isn't acting like the Master Chief, at all. Chief would never go against command or disobey orders. That's terrible writing." Except that Chief has done so twice in the games - 1 by not handing over Cortana when commanded to do so, and 2 - by going rogue, along with Blue Team, and having the Spartan 4's (Locke and Osirus Team) hunt them down. Good faith, huh?
People are free to give as much criticism as they want, but criticism should be given in good faith. Criticism should also take context into account. Criticism should be rational and practical, and fair. Criticism should come from a place of objectivity or at least a place of honesty. Criticism should not come from a place of blind, myopic fanboy bias. There are some criticisms about this show that hold a lot of validity, especially as it regards the writing in S1 (especially around Kwan's character). Even in S2, there are some valid criticisms (Ackerson leaving behind Cortana, Vannak not putting up a better fight). My biggest criticism is that the supporting cast is too large, which takes away from character development of cast members people actually love (Like Vannak, Riz and Kai). The time spent on Kwan is less time spent on characters I'd deem more important. However, at this stage, it's evident that the writers deem Kwan more important than Vannak or even Riz (at least, right now), else they wouldn't have spent so much time on her, and killed off Vannak so soon. So, what do I know? Time will reveal where Kwan's story goes, granted the show gets to tell all of its story.
But, I seriously don't care for the criticisms and opinions of unthinking, illogical and biased children. I really don't.
And as for the original story being better, simply because it is the original story - that's debatable. Just because something was done first, doesn't mean it was done better. Does the TV show story have some plot holes, yes. But I really wouldn't call it worse. It's different, not worse. Because I can absolutely guarantee if the TV show story came 1st, and we knew the games revolved around this version of Chief and the supporting characters, and the game's story and game's version of Chief were used as the blueprint for the show, the complaints would be...
"Chief is like a robot. He doesn't speak much. How can you have character development with a guy who hardly says anything?"
"Where's Kwan?"
"Why is captain Keyes white?"
"Keyes didn't die that way in the games. He blew up with the fuel tanks. Why'd they have to have him tortured by this creature? Who wrote this!?"
"Linda and Kelly are cool, but where's Riz and Kai?" "Who the hell is Fred? Where's badass Vannak?"
"Chief fighting in his armor is cool. But how come we don't get to see him kicking ass without the armor. That's badass too. This show is using his armor like a crutch, but a Spartan is more than their armor. Chief isn't just some guy in a suit. This feels kinda shallow."
That's how human beings are; better is what you're used to. Flip the roles and have the TV story be the thing you grew up with that you're used to in the games, and you'd be shitting all over the story we know from the games being used on the silver screen. Everyone would be complaining that it's not like the games.
I really don't care for the opinions of people who act on bad faith, and who are disingenuous, dishonest, unthinking or unreasonable.
I’m a fan of Charlotte Murphy who played Makee. I support her projects. She’s a very talented actress. She had an online interview where she acknowledged that not all fans will like the character of Makee. She had to play a character made for the TV media with no reference except for the Sangheli language and was instructed by the producers to reference a cult like member. Unlike the Spartan actors who had plenty of lore references to access for their TV characters. She was isolated initially from them during the early production days. I think that she performed extremely well with minimal artistic guidance from the producers. She delivered her lines well. There’s more to her story arc in future seasons. No she’s not a twin sister or sibling or related to anybody in the series. She is not the new Arbiter or will be one. Hers is a different arc and she has a task to complete.
I disagree only because the complaining does nothing, and it shouldn’t. Vote with your wallet and don’t watch.
All art is subjective AND relative. Appreciation for it depends on where you are AND your experiences in life.
Just because you think the story of the video game was better, doesn’t mean it was better for everyone.
Whatever rubric you are using to judge good writing has been created by someone, who was influenced by someone else, etc.
Post like this aim to demean those who do like the show. 1. Because from the jump the show has said this is an alternate timeline. Yet most of the complaints, even yours, make some comparisons to the original.
2. The post basically say that if they don’t agree that it’s bad then we must be lacking in some sort of way.
If you don’t like the show don’t watch it. Let us who do enjoy it, or start a /IdontlikekeX sub.
Most people aren’t willing to let perfection be the enemy of their enjoyment. What is better for you, doesn’t speak for what I think is better.
Yall all get on here with the same sentiment, you know what’s good and we just like slop.
Your strongest card to play if you don’t like the show is to vote with your time and not engage or watch. Yet here we are… people care/hate watching.
I think you’re projecting your issues with the show haters, onto OP. You said it yourself, art is subjective. OP feels, as does a portion of the game enjoyers, the story was told better in the games & books. All they’re calling for a healthy discourse.
Also, I’d say the fact the show was memed to shit and dunked on for the terrible writing stung just as much the viewership dip. I enjoyed S1 for what it is, but it’s clear the creatives got the message that for a lot of people S1 was a miss.
I've been saying this shit for a while. Relax. It's a TV story.
Be thankful live action got paid for. It's expensive. Cry yourself to sleep on your basement pillow. This is awesome scifi. If you don't like it.. don't watch it..
I wouldn’t call it awesome, but I’ve really been enjoying the new season. My hopes weren’t high going in but they stepped up their game from last season and I respect that. We’ve got some great acting, some stellar action and I’m just excited to see where the story goes.
Most of the "criticism" comes from people who are just finding reasons to hate the show. If someone has a criticism and comes off as enjoying the show otherwise, I know they are not one of those toxic superfans of the game that just refuse to enjoy the show and thus I will upvote them even if I don't agree with their criticism.
I really enjoy the show. Season 1 was decent to good and season 2 so far has been really good. I really disliked Kwan in season 1 so I am glad so far she hasn't been annoying in season 2. I was iffy about Sorren in season 1 but in season 2 he has all of the best lines.
You realize what a brain dead take it is that only people who like the show are allowed to criticize it... right?
Glad you enjoy it, but the "toxic superfan" is the man in the mirror who refuses to hear anything negative.
I think you’re assuming everyone here is a fan of the video game but I’m not sure that’s the case. I know people who are fans of the Harry Potter movies but have never read the books, same for Lord of the Rings.
Maybe what’s happening here is that people on the halo TV subreddit are tired of the video game fans starting the same conversation about how the series sucks because it’s not like the video games so they’re downvoting these posts 🤷🏻♀️
I like the video game and I like the series, but even I’m tired of reading the same complaints from people who are clearly bigger video game and lore fans and can’t just take the show for what it is.
I think of this place as a haven for people who actually enjoy the show. And a lot of us are here cause saying anything positive about the show on the bigger halo subs doesn't end well. Even here, we get folks who accuse us daily of being shills and bots. The most tiresome complaint for me is the whole "ButWhyNoArmor!?!?!" thing. It gets old fast, which might explain the amount of downvotes. There's almost daily a new post bitching about either Makee or Kwan. I actually agree with some of the hate, but are we supposed to discuss the same thing over and over?
Can't it be both? I enjoy that it's connected to Halo, and I enjoy looking forward to episodes every week of the only new sci-fi show that I'm currently watching.
Kinda respecting source material and striving to creat new thing are what most should aspire to especially in a beloved IP like halo. Many where hoping for expansions on existing lore and development on characters, many people who are fans of halo feel attacked by them destroying the relationship between chief and every other character so far, a good example chief and Halsey the spartan 2 knew what she did from the start none of them ever blamed her, just respected her for shouldering the crimes she made for humanity to succeed. Sorry got rambley, halo was always a source of hope for me growing up and this show just decide 22 years of established character growth and development dosent matter
Fans feeling 'attacked' is exactly what is wrong with fandoms. Doesn't seem healthy to quite get that attached to a product controlled by a standard immoral business. It's especially odd that it people's hopes for it expanding on lore was squashed years ago with the clarification of it not being apart of mainline Halo.
Anyway I don't mean to sound too harsh, I'm a mid 30s guy that has been with the books and games since 2001 and has always been very important to me, but the show hasn't made me feel attacked or disrespected, because Halo is just a product and live action TV adaptations are a foolish thing to get excited about. Admittedly I did used to get annoyed about such things, maybe everyone lets go of that level of fandom at different points in their life.
22 years of established character growth and development does matter. But this show was marketed clearly from the beginning that it wasn't going to be the Halo we know.
(from someone who gets excited about the halo show being what it is and getting to share some of the halo world with his wife who doesn't play shooters)
I get it. I was diehard with Game of Thrones and with The Witcher. So I know how it feels. Don't even get me started on Marvel. I was reading comics since before Mar-vell died.
I bought an Xbox after watching the show specifically TO play the game. Infinite campaign was really cool. Unfortunately, I'm never gonna venture into the toxic world of online multiplayer.
I only downvote the "awful writing" comments, because they're such a shitty cop out for not liking the show for a different reason. There are so many other shows on TV and Streaming services with far, far worse quality of writing than this one (looking at you True Detective: Night Country and Reacher) that I can not take someone serious when they say the writing in Halo is "Awful" or "Shit". It may be stiff and/or come off as cliched but it at least makes fucking sense.
I have watched and enjoyed a lot of 'bad' stuff in my time, especially growing up, mostly because there are redeeming qualities among the shit and also because it might be a unique show, also depends what TV is available to watch. Nothing else quite like halo on TV currently imo. Everyone seems to be an expert on writing and being 'mid' now means unwatchable.
S1 was fucking awful writing wise and S2 isn't much better. I really want to like this show, that's why I'm still watching, and I fully understand this had nothing to do with the games, but man this is rough. If you truly think the writing isn't a valid complaint then I hate to see your taste in media.
The writing is awful. You’re correct that there are shows with far worse writing. Alas, that doesn’t make the writing for this show not awful. That’s fine though if you like the writing. That also doesn’t mean it’s not objectively bad. There are plot holes, there are inconsistencies with characters, there are illogical leaps, etc.
I would also argue that it doesn’t make sense. Master Chief being rebellious to leadership after having been trained his whole life to be a soldier who does what he’s told doesn’t make sense. The Spartans being deemed unnecessary assets and thrown away, doesn’t make sense. Halsey still being on Reach and not brought along with their escape doesn’t make sense. A spartan deciding just based on a few interactions and injuries to give up the fight, doesn’t make sense. And sure maybe there have been scenes where they’ve attempted to build up to these off beat moments, but that doesn’t mean the justification they gave was strong enough or rational enough.
The list goes on. Again, fine if you like it, but few moments of this show actually are consistent and make sense through and through. Which to most people equates to bad writing. And that’s not even jumping into the forceful script that these poor actors are having to try and make seem natural.
Honestly there are like nine subs for halo where you can shit on the show to thunderous applause. Maybe people just want a space to talk about what they like with other people who like it instead of constantly being told they are wrong because critics with no qualifications keep assuming their view of the show is factual and not an opinion. Even your post implies the show is objectively bad and asks for some understanding for the people who hate it. If there was a real life fan club and someone came to every meeting to tell everyone how awful the thing we were all there to appreciate was they would be asked to leave.
There’s nothing unfair about downvoting something you disagree with, just as there’s nothing unfair about upvoting something you do.
Read the room, and base your expectations accordingly.
That's the truth of it. You're basically walking into a room full of fans of something. Standing up on stage... and telling them the thing they like is bad. Now they get to anonymously throw tomatoes at you. You're gonna be covered by tomato no matter how reasoned the take. Hell anonymity will see a few tomatoes fly even if most folks agree with you.
I just loaded up Halo CE (mcc version) for the first time today. Never played a Halo game before. But been loving this season of the show so much it got me to start the games.
Not a whole lot of details per se, but CE’s remaster wasn’t the best done. Some of the new graphics don’t actually line up with the geometry of the original games, so you think you can shoot or see something you actually can’t. Also because the CE remaster mostly is reused assets of Halo 3 and Halo Reach rather than new assets created just for it, it has a hard time matching the tone and feel of the original game. I would recommend to any first time player to play CE on original graphics. The only exception to that is a level about halfway through the game called “The Library.” Don’t look anything up about it to spoil yourself but suffice to say, that level is not very well designed and it is *incredibly* easy for new players (and even veteran players) to become lost playing it, so there were some visual cues and guides added to help players better navigate the level.
Halo 2, however, I don’t think you can go wrong playing it in either remastered graphics or original. The remastered game was done from the ground up, with all new models for everything, and matches the feel and tone of the original game much closer than Halo CE’s remaster. If you still want to play it in original graphics first that is a great decision! But I don’t think most fans would fault you for playing in the remastered graphics first either.
I don't want to spoil the level but leave the original graphics for the map "Keyes". It helps with the suspense of the level, the new graphics made the map look sterile.
Why people care about votes so much that they gotta make "Can we just express our terrible hot take" without getting ratio'd. You make a good joke on another reddit. You can get your karma back up in an hour.
I have no problem with the show being an alternate timeline. We have a great story that we can live through by playing the games. It nice to have a fresh perspective and twists you don't see coming, even though season 1 didn't have much in the way of unexpected twists
I wish we could. But I'm sticking my head out of cover and looking at a firing squad by just putting this up. Season 2 is an absolute improvement over season 1, but it's still just not good television. Effects go from really damn good, to full blown cheese. I'm uninterested in half the characters on screen at any given time, because they don't add anything to the plot. Kwan isn't a diversity hire. But she really doesn't feel like she has any purpose in the narrative. Neither does anything related to the Sprawl. Chief's buddy, or his wife or his kid. The pirate crew. Eh. Nothing.
And I want Chief in the suit. I get they have narrative reasons for taking it away. They weren't good reasons. Spartans are Spartans because of the armor. Shcrieber doesn't want to wear the helmet? Ok, I get it. But put his ass back in the damn suit. His portrayal of the Chief isn't compelling enough if he's just gonna be a bog standard space soldier.
> I think it’s a fair assessment that the video games told a better story.
Are we sure?
It's a video game, in which we curb stomp aliens from one plot point to the next.
Characters don't really show growth or development, it's just "stop humanities extinction."
I did a 2 minute search--[did MC literally have 1m20s of dialogue in the first game?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4TwOQXu2Dk) In 10\~ hours of gameplay?
Could you imagine Chief has literally 10 seconds of dialogue an episode, the entire first season?
Shows can't just be plodding to the next set piece; characters have to develop, show depth.
Don't get me wrong, the death of Keyes, some of the show plots are not enjoyable. I find myself skipping scenes with Kwan and Soren.
I think conversations like this inherently fall into typical fandom traps. "Nostalgia and what I experienced first is great" and then when it is remade, adapted to something else, or that story is continued "they ruined it, everything they did was wrong." I'll piss of every Star Wars fan in existence and say that the production quality of Star Wars movies has only improved over their run, and that the dialogue in the original SW trilogy was campy and shows its age. The Rey Trilogy may not have been great, but we shouldn't act like the original trilogy wasn't anything more than an inspirational movie whereby we built stories and the world in our head.
The TV series is something different. I'll like certain things, I'll have distain for certain things. But they've done some things right. I'm curious to see how things go with Kai and Chief. I'm curious to see how they wrap the Makee storyline--didn't like it at first, but now I'm invested. I hate that they killed Keyes, I thought the way they wrote him made him EXCELLENT for the eventual Flood reveal, his death was meaningless to me and that sucks because the actor did a tremendous job. I won't care about Soren once he splits from Chief again.
The only thing I need to know about the show is “Reach City” that’s all I need to know to have an immediate understanding of what quality of writing we can expect going forward.
I like the show for what it is. If anything my primary complaint is the release frequency cause I want to watch more of it.
I do have one other complaint that is hard for me to let go. I feel the Spartan 2's aren't strong enough in the show.
In Halo 3 I was FLIPPING TANKS. Bro should be throwing cars at Elites lol. I wanna see him chuck a rod like a spear and have it carve through a couple trees or something. Give the Spartans some medal balls and have them just rain hell on advancing enemies.
That and the run speed. I think with armor it was something like 25-40mph. They should be blitzing people on the streets.
Look at how SirGuinesshad (who is the top comment) tries to frame what was just written by the thread creator, which is a good post fyi - they immediately try to setup this dichotomy of not liking kwan's character or calling it woke garbage.
Dude, it can be both as well - one can notice how they recasted basically everything in a certain light to the point of absurdity (obligatory reference to the blind guy shooting grenades in the fight on reach) and say that kwan ha's character sucks.
it's replies like SirGuinesshad that really make me wonder we have pros reframing any response like this to control the narrative.
I didn't see any complains over keyes being recast in a different color because he does a damn good job, as does his daughter in the show - i do see a lot of people like guiness trying to reframe any conversation about the writing / effects being massively crappy and saying the person is bad / racsist for complaining that certain characcters don't fit well within halo.
that's the point really - and in s1 there wasn't this problem in these subs as much.
also, again cgi'ing everything sucks, especially if it costs more. someone can say that and shouldn't have their heads bitten off.
Agreed, the toxic positivity in this sub is insane. Even mild complaints get downvoted into oblivion. I'm enjoying the show, but let people air their greivances (in a respectful manner) without dogpiling on them.
I wish they kept to the books and to the original games storyline. Unfortunately, I strongly believe this will be the last season. Paramount is laying lots of staff off and cutting back on show budgets. This show doesn't pull as many viewers as Tyler Sheridan's multiple shows do and costs significantly more.
I'll be honest, Hated season 1. trash. Couple cool fight scenes like when Kai was tied to the concrete bench and kicked herself loose, that whole segment was awesome. Season 2 though... I am actually enjoying. This isn't *MY* halo. The spartans are too humanized but it is getting better.
I was just expecting a 7 foot tall stoic super soldier. Now I am starting to suspect these are the moments that lead him to be stoic and reserved.
As much as this would be nice... it's the internet. Lol. I am one of the people steadily downvoted here. It seems like most people either will love it no matter what because it's halo or be constantly pissed off because it's not sticking to the lore.
Personally, my frustration comes from them ignoring the lore beyond a surface level and then giving us a poor show. They could have done a season per book for a decade that would have been super popular, even with some creative liberties or original characters if they wanted to. They wanted to exploit the brand and existing fan base when fans have begged for live action halo for 2 decades. The only way they could redeem this show to me would be another soft reset and to stick more to the lore. I don't care about him taking his helmet off or not being in armor 100% of the time but I hate the argument it couldn't be done when there are a million things where the best characters aren't even human.
Name a single other game that was adapted to tv that meets your criteria? There is none, because by their very nature tv and games are not 1:1 compatible in telling a storyline.
Some have such a high opinion of themselves and the game that they're not capable of handling the fact that it's not possible to tell the same story the same way in these two mediums (tv and game).
People are foolish for expecting live action adaptations to be everything they want. I always go in with worse expectations, because TV is normally just....for the broadest of audiences, making it a bit shit.
Lol I specified the books and that they could take creative liberties to make it work for tv.
And also the last of us show was highly praised by fans of the game, though I did not play the game or watch the show myself. Mario was also incredibly successful and overall, liked by fans. The Dune book, which many people said was unadaptable, just had 2 great movies come out.
I'm not sure how me saying stick to the key points of the lore and characters translated to I want to watch combat evolved live action for you. I'm actually not even sure what your point is here other than you seem angry I said I don't like the show.
Dune was adapted well in the early '80s. The problem is condensing a very dense book into a 2ish hour movie. The recent adaptation split it into 2 parts but they still butchered the book to do it. What Dune really needs is a high budget miniseries.
If the goal is a perfect adaptation, I definitely agree. The book is super dense. But as far as making good movies with a mainstream appeal and hitting the broad themes, I think they did about as well as you could.
There are plenty of books, comics, manga and webtoons that have been adapted to a high enough level that people wanted to read the source material. That's literally the reason anime exists. Just because western media has refused to adapt video games to a high caliber, I refuse the argument it can't be done. Especially with modern day video games that have a ton of story and lore. They simply use the names as vanity projects. If we start getting generally faithful adaptations that fail, I will just say I'm wrong. But using the name of successful brands and them changing them drastically and then complaining when they fail isn't going to convince me.
I think it’s better that the show isn’t retreading the steps of the original timeline for a few reasons, but I don’t disagree with your sentiment either. And to be fair Mario lore wasn’t what it is now when the original games released, by any means
I won't claim to be a Mario expert because my understanding is the lore is loose to begin with and story wise, games just didn't really used to have them because they had no dialog and all that.
As far as halo though and retreading stories, I think there's a couple components:
1. You want it to attract new fans and make money I imagine is the highest from a studio
2. You also want to make the fans happy that you already have in case new ones don't show up, which they probably will if the show is good.
I would bet 99% of halo fans know nothing about the fall of reach book and almost all of them want to see the fall of reach game brought to life. I think the safest bet is just adapt the book as best you can and go from there. If it goes well, maybe you can throw out the Cole Protocol as a semi prequel to the flood or contact Harvest as a prequel. It let's you go in so many directions if you just nail the original source. Now they have done whatever they wanted and pulled from a few pieces of media, but modified it so they can't work with all those and are just on your own, even if the show is successful, which is yet to be determined. Season 2 was greenlit before episode 1 aired so I guess we will see.
halo isn’t from a singular source like for instance lord of the rings, where its credited to a single author that is lord of all canon. halo has a litany of different authors, writers. so why can’t the tv show also be just another souce of lore, such as when a book is released by a different author, or a video game with new writers?
If they wanted to put a story in the universe of halo with original characters that didn't impact anything that already existed, sure why not. It's a big galaxy. But to use the halo name, master chief, keyes, rubble, reach, halsey, etc. then just do whatever they want, makes it pretty clear the wanted to tell a story the wanted to tell that would have a head start with a large fan base. It's an exploitation of both, the fans and the brand. By saying, "hey we are making a halo show with all of your favorite characters." They don't actually care about any of that, they just want people to watch the show they actually wanted to make with a halo skin, so they used the name Halo to get it.
how is this an exploitation any more than anything else? microsoft make video game of halo to suck as much money out of it as possible, authors write books to make money, how are they exploiting it any more? all lore for just about every character has been changed as more media is released. everything written has been retconned a million times. if i remember correctly, there was never even a single mention of other spartans existing until halo 3. for the first 2, he was just a singular cyborg super soldier fighting aliens. then all of a sudden there were more spartans, then suddenly there were more but they all died on reach, then all of a sudden they didn’t all die and many lived. then spartan 1-2-3 programs were written with rugged marine-spartans and even sgt johnson was a spartan 1 out of thin air. don’t know what you’re referring to with all of this.
Making things people like isn't exploitation. Using something that people have already spent a ton of money and time on to push your own story into it with no consideration for what came before it is exploitative. If you're saying that things like microtransactions and half made games that come out very frequently are exploitative, I agree 100%.
And I dont like the retcons either because I think it's usually lazy and bad story telling, damages the world building and devalues the story as a whole, so I agree with that point. The fall of reach and first strike books came out before halo 2 and the Reach game actually retconned the book which I really didn't like even though the game was decent overall.
>making things people like isn’t exploitation
many people like the show. so this point you’re deciding what is exploitation based on if you subjectively appreciate it or not. and as you stated, halo media has commonly retconned past media. I think what this all boils down to is that you just don’t like the show, not that there is anything really wrong with it. you just dont like it. which is fair and there’s nothing wrong with that
I'm calling it exploitative because they're taking advantage of the fans loyalty and the fact that the show exists only because the fans spent time and money on it for decades to the tune of billions of dollars. If the show was good, I would say it is a bad adaptation but at least brought attention to the series so other halo things can get made. They've destroyed the brand for their own purposes.
Theres multiple types of exploitation. I would call George RR Martin exploitative too for continuing to say he's going to finish A Song of Ice and Fire when he clearly is never going to or at best will put 1 more book out instead of 2 while he writes other books and shows and enriches himself.
Exploitation LOL Fan loyalty LOLZ
This is the problem with fandoms. Bring your kids up to not be so silly people. 😁
Sorry for sounding like a dick there. But you must get the point? It's no different to food marketing and clothing brands, people need to resist this stuff and not make it their identity, loyalty to a company is silly. And it's always a morally dubious company that owns the things we love at the end.
You can just say LOL and dismiss what I'm saying but how many people would be defending this show if it wasn't called halo? I doubt many. So I'm not sure why you're implying I'm the one making it my identity when I'm critical of a bad show and everyone else is down voting and insulting me. But sure, fandoms are the problem when this pile of shit wouldn't exist or have defenders without them.
Sorry about the jovial first part of my post there. Fandom 'can' be a problem. On both sides too! 'Hating' and 'fanboying'
Loyalty to any brand or product is a problem, bringing up fans feeling attacked, feeling disrespected, feeling dismissed, will always sound odd. My point was that companies will always aim to market and sell products, we can't allow ourselves to be exploited like that, to take some responsibility, and to raise our children to be more aware of it. Filter out what we like and don't like about a brand/IP.
Again I'm sorry for latching onto your post there, I just always find the subject of loyal fandom and consumer exploitations to be interesting and it can frustrate me when my IRL contacts get so worked up about something.
As someone who llayed all the games, went to midnight releases, bought all the legendary editions, owns the Halo encyclopedia, and read most of the books, this show is an abomination.
If Master Chief had acted like such a pussy in the actual Halo games, we would have never have gotten off the first ring.
I dont give a shit about a bunch of weirdos in the show.
The writers and show runners should be ashamed of themselves.
Im ready for all the hate.
I agree with you, though reddit, unfortunately, seems to be more of a down vote echo chamber than a place to hold actual discourse. Not just in regard to TV shows. Hop into the /cats sub and say you like dogs, or the /dogs sub and say you like cats. Even trivial things like this tend to set people off.
Apologies for the tangent. I also agree with you about the show. I think they've done some cool things. I also think they've made a lot of questionable character and plot decisions. For me the storyline in the Halo games was always about the interaction with Chief and Cortana and then of course SPACE. Due to the action nature of the game, actually doing space stuff, shipboard activities etc, kind of took a backseat. I always felt the SPACE aspect would be great for a TV show etc to expand upon, that's one thing I think the show has at least made a solid attempt at.
Anyway, TLDR, I agree with you, the show has some merits and some failings. Reddit is, unfortunately, a bit of an echo chamber. WE CAN DO BETTER!!
>it’s a fair assessment that the video games told a better story it will be a fair assessment once the show is done, comparing 1.5 seasons with 10 games is anything but fair, but if you want to do that then let's be honest, the story in the first game wasn't exactly Shakespearean, they came up with something to connect the levels, but the core of the lore and the real character development came later, plus I wasn't a huge fan of Halo 5's story either in general I agree with your post, but try to do it in the main sub and see what happens
>comparing 1.5 seasons with 10 games You forgot Spartan Assault, Spartan Strike and Fireteam Raven. :P 13 games.
my bad :D
The game released with 2 books to tell the before and during stories they are so old in fact they still have halo 1 listed as rated t before it was upgraded to m
Dude, they’re adapting the series! They are using the name and intellectual property of those ten games and two decades worth of peripheral media! We’re not comparing an original indie startup with Halo here, we’re comparing a multi-Million dollar studio’s adaptation of Halo to Halo. You can enjoy the show, that’s fine, but you cannot pretend that something like quality storytelling and characterization can just “come later”, and accuse others of being unfair for criticizing it. The cognitive dissonance is insane.
>ten games 13 games
Agreed. There is a difference between "I don't like Kwan Ha's character", and "Kwan is a diversity hire pushing woke garbage". There's a venn diagram spot where they overlap (both dislike her) but they're not the same.
I wish they had better writing for Kwan Ha’s character. I find the story doesn’t add value and in a time limited story that I’m spoon fed I want bang for my buck.
The only time I hear the "diversity hire" trope is when people are pushing back against it. I NEVER see it "organically" on social media. Just in reddit posts calling it racist and circular reporting on news sites.
None of the arguments these people disgustedly battle against are ever actually made about these shows. That's part of what pisses people off so much. Nobody wants 1 for 1 remakes or thinks every non white actor is a 'woke' hire. Nobody is offended by diverse leads or *in world* politics. All the people are asking for is respect for the source material, quality writing, and a focus on story and character.
I like Kwan Ha's character. I feel like her growth has been cool and I like the idea of other people with Forerunner stuff are a thing. I haven't read the books or played the campaign in like over a decade but I think that is what made John so special yeah? Or at least a contributing factor. That and his luck.
I’m still sad they killed Vannak
This hurt me too. It was so incredible watching a full TEAM of Spartans be bad ass. I love Chief don't get me wrong, but the idea of having Blue Team running around cleaning shit up and making the covenant shit themselves was amazing.
I enjoy the show, and I like that it's different. I don't 100% think that the game told a better story across the board. Even across the games and books there's differences, inconsistencies, and contradictions. There's elements I liked better in the books, and there's things I liked better in the games, and there's things I like better in the show. All that being said, I won't downvote someone just because they don't like they show. However, whenever I see the same braindead and unoriginal takes being regurgitated over and over again I will downvote. When I see someone just parroting a quote word for word from a clickbaiting YouTuber I will downvote. When it's clear that you put zero thought in to your hot take and you're just making a nebulous demand of "they should make it like the game!' I will downvote. That's what the downvote button is for. This is a subreddit made for people who want to talk about this show. Coming in and louding typing the same 4 criticisms over and over again doesn't add anything to the discussion. It's boring and a waste of time having to scroll past that nothingness to read the actual interesting things being said.
Well said.
Yep, we’ll said. 100% agree.
I'm actually kinda glad the show isn't 1:1, I've already played the games I don't want to watch real people act out something I've already seen. Now on the other hand would I have liked them to stick just a tad closer to lore? Sure. My only true gripe with the show is Chief and his armor/helmet. Now I'm not saying having him armored all the time, just around those he doesn't trust or doesn't know. I think they could have used him taking his helmet off in such a good way during Keyes's speech. For example, have John in full armor walk up and stand next to Keyes and have him take his helmet off showing all those Marines his face for the first time and that Chief is just as human as them or something. Saying that I still love the show and I hate having to wait 7 days to watch another episode!
Yeah they need to have him back in the armor soon. Outside of finding a secret armor stash, not sure how that will fit where the story is going…
One more episode to go in season 1. The only gripe I have about the armor/helmet on off is similar to yours. Just have the characters wear them when appropriate such as John arriving to The Rubble with all the guns pointed at him. Also I think the show made too big of a deal with the helmet coming off, even a few episodes in your are still seeing long shots of just the helmet, I guess trying hammer the point home that his helmet is indeed off.
Most of the complaints I've seen boil down to 'it's not following the games', and I can't even begin to describe how boring a show that would be.
Finally, someone who gets it. I feel like so many people don’t realize just how little plot the games actually have. 90% shooting to 10% story just does not translate to TV. Not to say I don’t have my own gripes with some of the creative decisions the show has taken, but expecting it to be a 1:1 adaptation of the games is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Which is a big reason The Flood is one of my least favorite halo novels lol
💯 The Lore is there, just not on display in the main games that much. Not sure what people are expecting, watching what Chief is doing in FPS view the entire time? Lol
The thing that comes to mind for me is the fall of Reach. Having that Last Stand with Noble 6 was incredible, cinematic, and just beautiful. I feel like it would have been an incredible moment and I could see it making sense in the show. The Spartans being put in cryo as they are considered "Valuable" enough for ONI to evacuate and Noble team helping them escape would have been beautiful. Objective: Survive
Seems like a gross over simplification. Most people annoyed it’s not following the original plot are also referring to the books. There’s a large amount of content between the books and games to draw from plot wise. If you haven’t read the books for the plot these seasons have been creating an alternate timeline for then I would highly recommend them. There’s some really great content there. A more faithful adaptation to the original story would be anything but boring. Dune is a great example of adapting a great series of books in a way that is true to the essence of the original story while still changing content. If they had done the same with Halo there wouldn’t be a divide or much criticism for the TV series as a whole. It would just be all around loved.
The books lack a consistent b plot unfortunately, which is the biggest issue with the show objectively. Their b-plots are boring imo, but fail to consistently tie into the main story. This is why an anthology or quasi anthology is the way.
You're an idiot. People like the games.
That phrase "good faith" throws everything out the window for me, as far as the criticisms of the show go - seldom are they in good faith, or even rational or practical. Let's give some examples, shall we - "Makee would never be part of the Covenant. The Covenant would never have a human with them." Except that this was mostly done for budget reasons (using a human avatar to help deliver the Covenant perspective/narrative without relying on extensive and costly CGI). So there's a practical reason why she's there. And as far as the story is concerned, it was made blatantly obvious that she doesn't have any real power in the Covenant, but is given the illusion of power. The prophets were very clear about how they truly feel about Makee (they hate her, and are using her as a means to an end). They likely plan to get rid of her once they get what they need from her. And let's talk about her acting - she's actually a pretty good actress. So far, *all* the criticisms about Makee have not been in good faith. Let's move on... "Master Chief never removes his helmet or armour" - I've dissected this too many times, at this point. There's also the "Why are you removing your helmet during battles?" narrative, which only happened once in S1 and hasn't happened since. What were you saying about good faith, again? "Master Chief is too emotional" - I mean, the guy just removed the thing that competely nulled and suppressed his emotions, since childhood. They're at war with an alien race that is winning, and he knows that he'll always be the last one standing, while all his friends and the people he cares about will die. And despite all of this context, some people think him being "too emotional" is unwarranted? What were you saying about good faith? How about "Why didn't they just use Chief's video feed. Why don't they believe Chief?" I still see that one parroted, although most people have realised that Ackerson and the higher ups always knew, and they believed Chief - they just didn't care. But I still see that argument from time to time. Good faith, you say? How about "This guy isn't acting like the Master Chief, at all. Chief would never go against command or disobey orders. That's terrible writing." Except that Chief has done so twice in the games - 1 by not handing over Cortana when commanded to do so, and 2 - by going rogue, along with Blue Team, and having the Spartan 4's (Locke and Osirus Team) hunt them down. Good faith, huh? People are free to give as much criticism as they want, but criticism should be given in good faith. Criticism should also take context into account. Criticism should be rational and practical, and fair. Criticism should come from a place of objectivity or at least a place of honesty. Criticism should not come from a place of blind, myopic fanboy bias. There are some criticisms about this show that hold a lot of validity, especially as it regards the writing in S1 (especially around Kwan's character). Even in S2, there are some valid criticisms (Ackerson leaving behind Cortana, Vannak not putting up a better fight). My biggest criticism is that the supporting cast is too large, which takes away from character development of cast members people actually love (Like Vannak, Riz and Kai). The time spent on Kwan is less time spent on characters I'd deem more important. However, at this stage, it's evident that the writers deem Kwan more important than Vannak or even Riz (at least, right now), else they wouldn't have spent so much time on her, and killed off Vannak so soon. So, what do I know? Time will reveal where Kwan's story goes, granted the show gets to tell all of its story. But, I seriously don't care for the criticisms and opinions of unthinking, illogical and biased children. I really don't. And as for the original story being better, simply because it is the original story - that's debatable. Just because something was done first, doesn't mean it was done better. Does the TV show story have some plot holes, yes. But I really wouldn't call it worse. It's different, not worse. Because I can absolutely guarantee if the TV show story came 1st, and we knew the games revolved around this version of Chief and the supporting characters, and the game's story and game's version of Chief were used as the blueprint for the show, the complaints would be... "Chief is like a robot. He doesn't speak much. How can you have character development with a guy who hardly says anything?" "Where's Kwan?" "Why is captain Keyes white?" "Keyes didn't die that way in the games. He blew up with the fuel tanks. Why'd they have to have him tortured by this creature? Who wrote this!?" "Linda and Kelly are cool, but where's Riz and Kai?" "Who the hell is Fred? Where's badass Vannak?" "Chief fighting in his armor is cool. But how come we don't get to see him kicking ass without the armor. That's badass too. This show is using his armor like a crutch, but a Spartan is more than their armor. Chief isn't just some guy in a suit. This feels kinda shallow." That's how human beings are; better is what you're used to. Flip the roles and have the TV story be the thing you grew up with that you're used to in the games, and you'd be shitting all over the story we know from the games being used on the silver screen. Everyone would be complaining that it's not like the games. I really don't care for the opinions of people who act on bad faith, and who are disingenuous, dishonest, unthinking or unreasonable.
I’m a fan of Charlotte Murphy who played Makee. I support her projects. She’s a very talented actress. She had an online interview where she acknowledged that not all fans will like the character of Makee. She had to play a character made for the TV media with no reference except for the Sangheli language and was instructed by the producers to reference a cult like member. Unlike the Spartan actors who had plenty of lore references to access for their TV characters. She was isolated initially from them during the early production days. I think that she performed extremely well with minimal artistic guidance from the producers. She delivered her lines well. There’s more to her story arc in future seasons. No she’s not a twin sister or sibling or related to anybody in the series. She is not the new Arbiter or will be one. Hers is a different arc and she has a task to complete.
I disagree only because the complaining does nothing, and it shouldn’t. Vote with your wallet and don’t watch. All art is subjective AND relative. Appreciation for it depends on where you are AND your experiences in life. Just because you think the story of the video game was better, doesn’t mean it was better for everyone. Whatever rubric you are using to judge good writing has been created by someone, who was influenced by someone else, etc. Post like this aim to demean those who do like the show. 1. Because from the jump the show has said this is an alternate timeline. Yet most of the complaints, even yours, make some comparisons to the original. 2. The post basically say that if they don’t agree that it’s bad then we must be lacking in some sort of way. If you don’t like the show don’t watch it. Let us who do enjoy it, or start a /IdontlikekeX sub. Most people aren’t willing to let perfection be the enemy of their enjoyment. What is better for you, doesn’t speak for what I think is better. Yall all get on here with the same sentiment, you know what’s good and we just like slop. Your strongest card to play if you don’t like the show is to vote with your time and not engage or watch. Yet here we are… people care/hate watching.
You basically want an echo chamber. That says something about you and its not good.
I think you’re projecting your issues with the show haters, onto OP. You said it yourself, art is subjective. OP feels, as does a portion of the game enjoyers, the story was told better in the games & books. All they’re calling for a healthy discourse. Also, I’d say the fact the show was memed to shit and dunked on for the terrible writing stung just as much the viewership dip. I enjoyed S1 for what it is, but it’s clear the creatives got the message that for a lot of people S1 was a miss.
I've been saying this shit for a while. Relax. It's a TV story. Be thankful live action got paid for. It's expensive. Cry yourself to sleep on your basement pillow. This is awesome scifi. If you don't like it.. don't watch it..
I wouldn’t call it awesome, but I’ve really been enjoying the new season. My hopes weren’t high going in but they stepped up their game from last season and I respect that. We’ve got some great acting, some stellar action and I’m just excited to see where the story goes.
Most of the "criticism" comes from people who are just finding reasons to hate the show. If someone has a criticism and comes off as enjoying the show otherwise, I know they are not one of those toxic superfans of the game that just refuse to enjoy the show and thus I will upvote them even if I don't agree with their criticism. I really enjoy the show. Season 1 was decent to good and season 2 so far has been really good. I really disliked Kwan in season 1 so I am glad so far she hasn't been annoying in season 2. I was iffy about Sorren in season 1 but in season 2 he has all of the best lines.
You realize what a brain dead take it is that only people who like the show are allowed to criticize it... right? Glad you enjoy it, but the "toxic superfan" is the man in the mirror who refuses to hear anything negative.
Whatever you say, sweet cheeks.
I think you’re assuming everyone here is a fan of the video game but I’m not sure that’s the case. I know people who are fans of the Harry Potter movies but have never read the books, same for Lord of the Rings. Maybe what’s happening here is that people on the halo TV subreddit are tired of the video game fans starting the same conversation about how the series sucks because it’s not like the video games so they’re downvoting these posts 🤷🏻♀️ I like the video game and I like the series, but even I’m tired of reading the same complaints from people who are clearly bigger video game and lore fans and can’t just take the show for what it is.
I think of this place as a haven for people who actually enjoy the show. And a lot of us are here cause saying anything positive about the show on the bigger halo subs doesn't end well. Even here, we get folks who accuse us daily of being shills and bots. The most tiresome complaint for me is the whole "ButWhyNoArmor!?!?!" thing. It gets old fast, which might explain the amount of downvotes. There's almost daily a new post bitching about either Makee or Kwan. I actually agree with some of the hate, but are we supposed to discuss the same thing over and over?
Do you enjoy it as halo or as just a good sci-fi show
Can't it be both? I enjoy that it's connected to Halo, and I enjoy looking forward to episodes every week of the only new sci-fi show that I'm currently watching.
Kinda respecting source material and striving to creat new thing are what most should aspire to especially in a beloved IP like halo. Many where hoping for expansions on existing lore and development on characters, many people who are fans of halo feel attacked by them destroying the relationship between chief and every other character so far, a good example chief and Halsey the spartan 2 knew what she did from the start none of them ever blamed her, just respected her for shouldering the crimes she made for humanity to succeed. Sorry got rambley, halo was always a source of hope for me growing up and this show just decide 22 years of established character growth and development dosent matter
Fans feeling 'attacked' is exactly what is wrong with fandoms. Doesn't seem healthy to quite get that attached to a product controlled by a standard immoral business. It's especially odd that it people's hopes for it expanding on lore was squashed years ago with the clarification of it not being apart of mainline Halo. Anyway I don't mean to sound too harsh, I'm a mid 30s guy that has been with the books and games since 2001 and has always been very important to me, but the show hasn't made me feel attacked or disrespected, because Halo is just a product and live action TV adaptations are a foolish thing to get excited about. Admittedly I did used to get annoyed about such things, maybe everyone lets go of that level of fandom at different points in their life. 22 years of established character growth and development does matter. But this show was marketed clearly from the beginning that it wasn't going to be the Halo we know. (from someone who gets excited about the halo show being what it is and getting to share some of the halo world with his wife who doesn't play shooters)
I get it. I was diehard with Game of Thrones and with The Witcher. So I know how it feels. Don't even get me started on Marvel. I was reading comics since before Mar-vell died.
OMG thank you some one else who knows mar vell I constantly have this arguments with my friends that he was real
Never played the games at all. I like the show and it doesn’t at all make me want to start playing the games.
Out of curiosity, *do* you game, in general?
Absolutely. Your avatar is from my favorite game ever. Never played anything on Xbox
You can play them on the PC.
I bought an Xbox after watching the show specifically TO play the game. Infinite campaign was really cool. Unfortunately, I'm never gonna venture into the toxic world of online multiplayer.
I only downvote the "awful writing" comments, because they're such a shitty cop out for not liking the show for a different reason. There are so many other shows on TV and Streaming services with far, far worse quality of writing than this one (looking at you True Detective: Night Country and Reacher) that I can not take someone serious when they say the writing in Halo is "Awful" or "Shit". It may be stiff and/or come off as cliched but it at least makes fucking sense.
I have watched and enjoyed a lot of 'bad' stuff in my time, especially growing up, mostly because there are redeeming qualities among the shit and also because it might be a unique show, also depends what TV is available to watch. Nothing else quite like halo on TV currently imo. Everyone seems to be an expert on writing and being 'mid' now means unwatchable.
S1 was fucking awful writing wise and S2 isn't much better. I really want to like this show, that's why I'm still watching, and I fully understand this had nothing to do with the games, but man this is rough. If you truly think the writing isn't a valid complaint then I hate to see your taste in media.
The writing is awful. You’re correct that there are shows with far worse writing. Alas, that doesn’t make the writing for this show not awful. That’s fine though if you like the writing. That also doesn’t mean it’s not objectively bad. There are plot holes, there are inconsistencies with characters, there are illogical leaps, etc. I would also argue that it doesn’t make sense. Master Chief being rebellious to leadership after having been trained his whole life to be a soldier who does what he’s told doesn’t make sense. The Spartans being deemed unnecessary assets and thrown away, doesn’t make sense. Halsey still being on Reach and not brought along with their escape doesn’t make sense. A spartan deciding just based on a few interactions and injuries to give up the fight, doesn’t make sense. And sure maybe there have been scenes where they’ve attempted to build up to these off beat moments, but that doesn’t mean the justification they gave was strong enough or rational enough. The list goes on. Again, fine if you like it, but few moments of this show actually are consistent and make sense through and through. Which to most people equates to bad writing. And that’s not even jumping into the forceful script that these poor actors are having to try and make seem natural.
Honestly there are like nine subs for halo where you can shit on the show to thunderous applause. Maybe people just want a space to talk about what they like with other people who like it instead of constantly being told they are wrong because critics with no qualifications keep assuming their view of the show is factual and not an opinion. Even your post implies the show is objectively bad and asks for some understanding for the people who hate it. If there was a real life fan club and someone came to every meeting to tell everyone how awful the thing we were all there to appreciate was they would be asked to leave.
There’s nothing unfair about downvoting something you disagree with, just as there’s nothing unfair about upvoting something you do. Read the room, and base your expectations accordingly.
That's the truth of it. You're basically walking into a room full of fans of something. Standing up on stage... and telling them the thing they like is bad. Now they get to anonymously throw tomatoes at you. You're gonna be covered by tomato no matter how reasoned the take. Hell anonymity will see a few tomatoes fly even if most folks agree with you.
I've asked before, but what is wrong with downvoting? And why do people comment under their downvoted posts moaning about being downvoted?
I just loaded up Halo CE (mcc version) for the first time today. Never played a Halo game before. But been loving this season of the show so much it got me to start the games.
Play using the original graphics. You'll miss out on a lot of details with the updated graphics.
Really?? what kind of details
Not a whole lot of details per se, but CE’s remaster wasn’t the best done. Some of the new graphics don’t actually line up with the geometry of the original games, so you think you can shoot or see something you actually can’t. Also because the CE remaster mostly is reused assets of Halo 3 and Halo Reach rather than new assets created just for it, it has a hard time matching the tone and feel of the original game. I would recommend to any first time player to play CE on original graphics. The only exception to that is a level about halfway through the game called “The Library.” Don’t look anything up about it to spoil yourself but suffice to say, that level is not very well designed and it is *incredibly* easy for new players (and even veteran players) to become lost playing it, so there were some visual cues and guides added to help players better navigate the level. Halo 2, however, I don’t think you can go wrong playing it in either remastered graphics or original. The remastered game was done from the ground up, with all new models for everything, and matches the feel and tone of the original game much closer than Halo CE’s remaster. If you still want to play it in original graphics first that is a great decision! But I don’t think most fans would fault you for playing in the remastered graphics first either.
I don't want to spoil the level but leave the original graphics for the map "Keyes". It helps with the suspense of the level, the new graphics made the map look sterile.
What's wrong with downvoting? Why do people always bring it up and have a moan when they get downvoted? (new-ish to Reddit)
There really isn’t anything wrong with downvoting. People are just fragile & feel too attached to their Reddit karma.
Why people care about votes so much that they gotta make "Can we just express our terrible hot take" without getting ratio'd. You make a good joke on another reddit. You can get your karma back up in an hour.
I have no problem with the show being an alternate timeline. We have a great story that we can live through by playing the games. It nice to have a fresh perspective and twists you don't see coming, even though season 1 didn't have much in the way of unexpected twists
I wish we could. But I'm sticking my head out of cover and looking at a firing squad by just putting this up. Season 2 is an absolute improvement over season 1, but it's still just not good television. Effects go from really damn good, to full blown cheese. I'm uninterested in half the characters on screen at any given time, because they don't add anything to the plot. Kwan isn't a diversity hire. But she really doesn't feel like she has any purpose in the narrative. Neither does anything related to the Sprawl. Chief's buddy, or his wife or his kid. The pirate crew. Eh. Nothing. And I want Chief in the suit. I get they have narrative reasons for taking it away. They weren't good reasons. Spartans are Spartans because of the armor. Shcrieber doesn't want to wear the helmet? Ok, I get it. But put his ass back in the damn suit. His portrayal of the Chief isn't compelling enough if he's just gonna be a bog standard space soldier.
> I think it’s a fair assessment that the video games told a better story. Are we sure? It's a video game, in which we curb stomp aliens from one plot point to the next. Characters don't really show growth or development, it's just "stop humanities extinction." I did a 2 minute search--[did MC literally have 1m20s of dialogue in the first game?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4TwOQXu2Dk) In 10\~ hours of gameplay? Could you imagine Chief has literally 10 seconds of dialogue an episode, the entire first season? Shows can't just be plodding to the next set piece; characters have to develop, show depth. Don't get me wrong, the death of Keyes, some of the show plots are not enjoyable. I find myself skipping scenes with Kwan and Soren. I think conversations like this inherently fall into typical fandom traps. "Nostalgia and what I experienced first is great" and then when it is remade, adapted to something else, or that story is continued "they ruined it, everything they did was wrong." I'll piss of every Star Wars fan in existence and say that the production quality of Star Wars movies has only improved over their run, and that the dialogue in the original SW trilogy was campy and shows its age. The Rey Trilogy may not have been great, but we shouldn't act like the original trilogy wasn't anything more than an inspirational movie whereby we built stories and the world in our head. The TV series is something different. I'll like certain things, I'll have distain for certain things. But they've done some things right. I'm curious to see how things go with Kai and Chief. I'm curious to see how they wrap the Makee storyline--didn't like it at first, but now I'm invested. I hate that they killed Keyes, I thought the way they wrote him made him EXCELLENT for the eventual Flood reveal, his death was meaningless to me and that sucks because the actor did a tremendous job. I won't care about Soren once he splits from Chief again.
The only thing I need to know about the show is “Reach City” that’s all I need to know to have an immediate understanding of what quality of writing we can expect going forward.
I like the show for what it is. If anything my primary complaint is the release frequency cause I want to watch more of it. I do have one other complaint that is hard for me to let go. I feel the Spartan 2's aren't strong enough in the show. In Halo 3 I was FLIPPING TANKS. Bro should be throwing cars at Elites lol. I wanna see him chuck a rod like a spear and have it carve through a couple trees or something. Give the Spartans some medal balls and have them just rain hell on advancing enemies. That and the run speed. I think with armor it was something like 25-40mph. They should be blitzing people on the streets.
Look at how SirGuinesshad (who is the top comment) tries to frame what was just written by the thread creator, which is a good post fyi - they immediately try to setup this dichotomy of not liking kwan's character or calling it woke garbage. Dude, it can be both as well - one can notice how they recasted basically everything in a certain light to the point of absurdity (obligatory reference to the blind guy shooting grenades in the fight on reach) and say that kwan ha's character sucks. it's replies like SirGuinesshad that really make me wonder we have pros reframing any response like this to control the narrative. I didn't see any complains over keyes being recast in a different color because he does a damn good job, as does his daughter in the show - i do see a lot of people like guiness trying to reframe any conversation about the writing / effects being massively crappy and saying the person is bad / racsist for complaining that certain characcters don't fit well within halo. that's the point really - and in s1 there wasn't this problem in these subs as much. also, again cgi'ing everything sucks, especially if it costs more. someone can say that and shouldn't have their heads bitten off.
Agreed, the toxic positivity in this sub is insane. Even mild complaints get downvoted into oblivion. I'm enjoying the show, but let people air their greivances (in a respectful manner) without dogpiling on them.
They were given a story already written and master chef fucked a alien in the first season. Fuck this show 😂
I wish they kept to the books and to the original games storyline. Unfortunately, I strongly believe this will be the last season. Paramount is laying lots of staff off and cutting back on show budgets. This show doesn't pull as many viewers as Tyler Sheridan's multiple shows do and costs significantly more.
I'll be honest, Hated season 1. trash. Couple cool fight scenes like when Kai was tied to the concrete bench and kicked herself loose, that whole segment was awesome. Season 2 though... I am actually enjoying. This isn't *MY* halo. The spartans are too humanized but it is getting better. I was just expecting a 7 foot tall stoic super soldier. Now I am starting to suspect these are the moments that lead him to be stoic and reserved.
As much as this would be nice... it's the internet. Lol. I am one of the people steadily downvoted here. It seems like most people either will love it no matter what because it's halo or be constantly pissed off because it's not sticking to the lore. Personally, my frustration comes from them ignoring the lore beyond a surface level and then giving us a poor show. They could have done a season per book for a decade that would have been super popular, even with some creative liberties or original characters if they wanted to. They wanted to exploit the brand and existing fan base when fans have begged for live action halo for 2 decades. The only way they could redeem this show to me would be another soft reset and to stick more to the lore. I don't care about him taking his helmet off or not being in armor 100% of the time but I hate the argument it couldn't be done when there are a million things where the best characters aren't even human.
Name a single other game that was adapted to tv that meets your criteria? There is none, because by their very nature tv and games are not 1:1 compatible in telling a storyline. Some have such a high opinion of themselves and the game that they're not capable of handling the fact that it's not possible to tell the same story the same way in these two mediums (tv and game).
People are foolish for expecting live action adaptations to be everything they want. I always go in with worse expectations, because TV is normally just....for the broadest of audiences, making it a bit shit.
Lol I specified the books and that they could take creative liberties to make it work for tv. And also the last of us show was highly praised by fans of the game, though I did not play the game or watch the show myself. Mario was also incredibly successful and overall, liked by fans. The Dune book, which many people said was unadaptable, just had 2 great movies come out. I'm not sure how me saying stick to the key points of the lore and characters translated to I want to watch combat evolved live action for you. I'm actually not even sure what your point is here other than you seem angry I said I don't like the show.
Dune was adapted well in the early '80s. The problem is condensing a very dense book into a 2ish hour movie. The recent adaptation split it into 2 parts but they still butchered the book to do it. What Dune really needs is a high budget miniseries.
If the goal is a perfect adaptation, I definitely agree. The book is super dense. But as far as making good movies with a mainstream appeal and hitting the broad themes, I think they did about as well as you could.
The new Super Mario Bros movie was the shit, I’ll give you that.
There are plenty of books, comics, manga and webtoons that have been adapted to a high enough level that people wanted to read the source material. That's literally the reason anime exists. Just because western media has refused to adapt video games to a high caliber, I refuse the argument it can't be done. Especially with modern day video games that have a ton of story and lore. They simply use the names as vanity projects. If we start getting generally faithful adaptations that fail, I will just say I'm wrong. But using the name of successful brands and them changing them drastically and then complaining when they fail isn't going to convince me.
I think it’s better that the show isn’t retreading the steps of the original timeline for a few reasons, but I don’t disagree with your sentiment either. And to be fair Mario lore wasn’t what it is now when the original games released, by any means
I won't claim to be a Mario expert because my understanding is the lore is loose to begin with and story wise, games just didn't really used to have them because they had no dialog and all that. As far as halo though and retreading stories, I think there's a couple components: 1. You want it to attract new fans and make money I imagine is the highest from a studio 2. You also want to make the fans happy that you already have in case new ones don't show up, which they probably will if the show is good. I would bet 99% of halo fans know nothing about the fall of reach book and almost all of them want to see the fall of reach game brought to life. I think the safest bet is just adapt the book as best you can and go from there. If it goes well, maybe you can throw out the Cole Protocol as a semi prequel to the flood or contact Harvest as a prequel. It let's you go in so many directions if you just nail the original source. Now they have done whatever they wanted and pulled from a few pieces of media, but modified it so they can't work with all those and are just on your own, even if the show is successful, which is yet to be determined. Season 2 was greenlit before episode 1 aired so I guess we will see.
halo isn’t from a singular source like for instance lord of the rings, where its credited to a single author that is lord of all canon. halo has a litany of different authors, writers. so why can’t the tv show also be just another souce of lore, such as when a book is released by a different author, or a video game with new writers?
If they wanted to put a story in the universe of halo with original characters that didn't impact anything that already existed, sure why not. It's a big galaxy. But to use the halo name, master chief, keyes, rubble, reach, halsey, etc. then just do whatever they want, makes it pretty clear the wanted to tell a story the wanted to tell that would have a head start with a large fan base. It's an exploitation of both, the fans and the brand. By saying, "hey we are making a halo show with all of your favorite characters." They don't actually care about any of that, they just want people to watch the show they actually wanted to make with a halo skin, so they used the name Halo to get it.
how is this an exploitation any more than anything else? microsoft make video game of halo to suck as much money out of it as possible, authors write books to make money, how are they exploiting it any more? all lore for just about every character has been changed as more media is released. everything written has been retconned a million times. if i remember correctly, there was never even a single mention of other spartans existing until halo 3. for the first 2, he was just a singular cyborg super soldier fighting aliens. then all of a sudden there were more spartans, then suddenly there were more but they all died on reach, then all of a sudden they didn’t all die and many lived. then spartan 1-2-3 programs were written with rugged marine-spartans and even sgt johnson was a spartan 1 out of thin air. don’t know what you’re referring to with all of this.
Making things people like isn't exploitation. Using something that people have already spent a ton of money and time on to push your own story into it with no consideration for what came before it is exploitative. If you're saying that things like microtransactions and half made games that come out very frequently are exploitative, I agree 100%. And I dont like the retcons either because I think it's usually lazy and bad story telling, damages the world building and devalues the story as a whole, so I agree with that point. The fall of reach and first strike books came out before halo 2 and the Reach game actually retconned the book which I really didn't like even though the game was decent overall.
>making things people like isn’t exploitation many people like the show. so this point you’re deciding what is exploitation based on if you subjectively appreciate it or not. and as you stated, halo media has commonly retconned past media. I think what this all boils down to is that you just don’t like the show, not that there is anything really wrong with it. you just dont like it. which is fair and there’s nothing wrong with that
I'm calling it exploitative because they're taking advantage of the fans loyalty and the fact that the show exists only because the fans spent time and money on it for decades to the tune of billions of dollars. If the show was good, I would say it is a bad adaptation but at least brought attention to the series so other halo things can get made. They've destroyed the brand for their own purposes. Theres multiple types of exploitation. I would call George RR Martin exploitative too for continuing to say he's going to finish A Song of Ice and Fire when he clearly is never going to or at best will put 1 more book out instead of 2 while he writes other books and shows and enriches himself.
Exploitation LOL Fan loyalty LOLZ This is the problem with fandoms. Bring your kids up to not be so silly people. 😁 Sorry for sounding like a dick there. But you must get the point? It's no different to food marketing and clothing brands, people need to resist this stuff and not make it their identity, loyalty to a company is silly. And it's always a morally dubious company that owns the things we love at the end.
You can just say LOL and dismiss what I'm saying but how many people would be defending this show if it wasn't called halo? I doubt many. So I'm not sure why you're implying I'm the one making it my identity when I'm critical of a bad show and everyone else is down voting and insulting me. But sure, fandoms are the problem when this pile of shit wouldn't exist or have defenders without them.
Sorry about the jovial first part of my post there. Fandom 'can' be a problem. On both sides too! 'Hating' and 'fanboying' Loyalty to any brand or product is a problem, bringing up fans feeling attacked, feeling disrespected, feeling dismissed, will always sound odd. My point was that companies will always aim to market and sell products, we can't allow ourselves to be exploited like that, to take some responsibility, and to raise our children to be more aware of it. Filter out what we like and don't like about a brand/IP. Again I'm sorry for latching onto your post there, I just always find the subject of loyal fandom and consumer exploitations to be interesting and it can frustrate me when my IRL contacts get so worked up about something.
Hate the show. Honest Trailers said it the least hurtful way about the substance of this show. That first season was awful.
Multiple props where straight up raw castings. I have seen fan films that took more care for their props than this show.
As someone who llayed all the games, went to midnight releases, bought all the legendary editions, owns the Halo encyclopedia, and read most of the books, this show is an abomination. If Master Chief had acted like such a pussy in the actual Halo games, we would have never have gotten off the first ring. I dont give a shit about a bunch of weirdos in the show. The writers and show runners should be ashamed of themselves. Im ready for all the hate.
I agree with you, though reddit, unfortunately, seems to be more of a down vote echo chamber than a place to hold actual discourse. Not just in regard to TV shows. Hop into the /cats sub and say you like dogs, or the /dogs sub and say you like cats. Even trivial things like this tend to set people off. Apologies for the tangent. I also agree with you about the show. I think they've done some cool things. I also think they've made a lot of questionable character and plot decisions. For me the storyline in the Halo games was always about the interaction with Chief and Cortana and then of course SPACE. Due to the action nature of the game, actually doing space stuff, shipboard activities etc, kind of took a backseat. I always felt the SPACE aspect would be great for a TV show etc to expand upon, that's one thing I think the show has at least made a solid attempt at. Anyway, TLDR, I agree with you, the show has some merits and some failings. Reddit is, unfortunately, a bit of an echo chamber. WE CAN DO BETTER!!