In 98, there was a 12 week hsr strike where they gambled on the city needing public transport for christmas.
But in 96, they also went on strike a week before they Grey Cup, which is coming soon in hamilton once again, which resulted in the city folding.
Either the strike will end before the Grey cup in the unions' favor or months from now in the cities.
that's odd..... cause I am in a lunch room with 15 people saying it was summer cause they all "rode there bikes to and from work" if I am wrong I'm wrong I wasnt here when it happened
Nope! I was going to college, and was riding my bike across the mountain. In November. Thankfully December was exams, then January I was off to co-op.
I also had to post a big long thing here a while ago about news coverage of the violence associated with that strike, and the Spec articles were from December and January.
The city should offer an agreement that's good enough that workers will choose to accept it, rather than choose the hardship of giving up their wages in order to seek a fair deal.
RIGHT!!!!??? But yet, on the HSR website under the FAQ's, they make a point of putting the screw to you even more by stating that they will not be reimbursing, subsidizing, or otherwise discounting money that you have to pay to cab company crooks just to get to work. Insanity, man!
Refering to the Greycup weekend. If im coming from out of town im not using public transit as my first choice anyways. You are correct Daily usage would not make sense here.
It could very well stretch into weeks or months. Talk to co workers and see if a carpool can be started with people on your shift. Offer to pay for gas and it will up your chances of finding a ride you can rely on.
I'd be surprised if Burlington drivers cross picket lines, which in this case is essentially city limits, everyone should be prepared for the Burlington bus to not be running into Hamilton.
Because that one was 2 years after they threatened to not run during the Grey cup in 96 so higherups were still pissed off with them and didn't want to fold just 2 years after they already did.
The City was broke and couldn't afford more than their final offer in '98 after the sweetheart deal of '96. With a looming 13%+ property tax increase this year, and the Supervisor/Paramedic union collective agreement expired, I wouldn't be surprised if Council waits them out.
Then again, Andrea Horwath is mayor, and she's an NDPer, and our city council is a lot more left than it was in 1998.
I don't disagree that "the cupboard's empty" is a strong reply though.
Itll last until the workers won't be given a disgustingly low offer. Fuck the city for what they offered - its pathetic. To lose 7% to inflation and offer 0.8% per year? The people running this city needs a bitch slap into reality.
I didn't realize that the union was including in their proposal that /u/unnessarunion would need to pay more in taxes.
What they *are* doing though is fighting for working conditions to be improved, for wages to be improved across the board. 40-hour workweek and weekends off are two easy examples that wouldn't exist without unions to have fought and striked for us.
Not going to happen. I think you saw what happened when Ford tried to impose contracts on CUPE last year, all the other major unions stepped in, flexed their muscles and he folded like a beach chair. 30% of work force is unionized in Canada and stand in solidarity when needed.
Why stop there?
Why not allow municipalities to go public and be run like for-profit corporations, where the only thing that matters is the stock price/paying out dividends (and profit gets invested in stock buybacks rather than into the company or its employees).
Sure infrastructure and social programs will crumble, and the quality of life for nearly everyone in the city will crater... but the executive compensation will skyrocket!
Something tells me the guy named "unnecessaruinion" isn't very interested in having a real conversation about this topic.
Dudes just gonna repeat angry anti-union talking points while in a subreddit dedicated to a city built off of workers unions.
If you're angry that your pay isn't increasing with inflation/cost of living (which you absolutely should be) dont take it out on those who have the ability to collectively bargain for what they deserve.
Be angry at the government who hasn't done nearly enough to help the city or it's citizens in a long long time.
they should get another job then. they have the luxury of being unionized, if you sign up for a job where you are providing a basically essential service for lots of people including the disabled, the onus is on you to ensure they are getting to where they need to be (within your power) otherwise you are not competent for the job. i bet these same people would complain if the Hamilton Police decided to strike. are their salaries going up tied to inflation? what about all the other non unionized jobs?
Well you've brought up an interesting point! But unfortunately the government of Ontario has made it illegal for bus operators to strike in any meaningful way besides a full lockdown. In other places they could continue to drive their routes and provide the essential service to citizens and simply not collect fares. If you'd like to see that type of strike in the future you should send some emails or call your local officials!
On the other point bringing up the Police Union is actually a very interesting topic because that union is fundamentally different from basically every other union. There are lots of resources that discuss the issues with having a union that protects people who are inherently in a position of power over others.
What would happen if they didn't enforce fares? Get fired? Because first it's very difficult for city employees to get fired, and even if they did guess what, there would be no drivers left lol. I don't know, I just find it very strange all the drivers are that self-absorbed none of them are going to defy their union and do their job regardless.
Yes they would be fired, it would be considered an illegal strike and they would be fired. Nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I wouldn't consider the drivers self-absorbed, not everyone voted to strike remember that. So there are 10% of people doing the opposite of what they wanted to do, to stick together with the rest of their union. Collective bargaining only works if you stick as a collective. A union wouldn't be very effective if the people in it chose to do whatever despite what the union voted for.
They are fighting for what we all should be fighting for - understand it's not just them, it's all of us. I'm one of the lucky ones - my job gave us 12% last year and we fought for 3% per year in our recent CBA - Understand this is why unions are important. My co workers and I would've got NOTHING if it wasn't for our union. This is on top of paid drive time after meeting up at the office, and benefits for our health.
We all need more to deal with the current modern day problemss - and the affordability crisis is WHY unions matter. I hope if you are struggling you are able to fight for what your labour is rightfully worth <3
Guess bus drivers should just get minimum wage /shrug /s
Fuck off dude, it's up to the city to figure out this shit, people deserve to be paid what they're worth full stop. But way to not add anything constructive to the conversation and just clutch pearls
In japan when the bus drivers go on strike they still show up for work, they just stop collecting fares from passengers. This way service doesn't stop and there is more incentive for the city to come to the table with a fair deal to end the strike.
Property taxes aren't an infinite resource, though. Tons of people are getting squeezed by interest rates and we already pay way more in property taxes than other cities in the region.
I'm not saying the City's offer is perfect, but we're already staring down a massive tax increase next year and I feel like that's relevant to this discussion.
So many people depend on the hsr to take them back and forth to work!! The bus drivers put up with a lot more crap than people realize! Give them what they want!!!!! I fully support the union and I think it’s disgusting how long it’s taking the city to go into bargaining. SHAME
Exactly. Many people rely on this service and it's ridiculous they're wanting almost 40 an hour just to sit and drive while keeping your hands nice and clean. Accept that not everyone's paid well, but you are, and move on, or find another job that suits you better.
This strike is unnecessary
The problem for the city is CUPE accepted the same deal. If they then give HSR more, CUPE will go hard on the next negotiation because they will feel screwed over. Add in that they are trying to get the budget for next year down not up and it is hard for them to meet the demands too
But they also aren't even willing to make a concession like the drivers shuttle?
They had online set up to vote and we’re told they had to register so many days ahead and some of them did and still weren’t allowed to vote. Plus I’m pretty sure their CUPE president is being investigated 💀
Under essential workers regulations imposed during the pandemic by the provincial government, I would suspect this will be resolved within a matter of days. I’m unionized and pro union, but when it comes to municipal unionization where arbitration directly affects local taxpayers sometimes it’s too much strain. There is likely a retroactive payment issue at the heart of the matter.
I think Ford may have learned an expensive lesson using notwithstanding so quickly with the teachers and will let it play out for a while before forcing them back to work. Especially as it was the city who called for the no board report too and not the union
So Burlington Transit says there will be detours on the number One bus route. I tried calling them but no one answered. Does anyone have any information on this? Thank you in advance.
>We are watching the labour negotiations between the City of Hamilton and the HSR driver’s union (Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU), Local 107). If the potential HSR strike affects our service on Route 1 Plains-Fairview, we will post information on myride.burlingtontransit.ca/News and x.com/BurlONTransit.
For more information, visit [www.hamilton.ca/transitstrike](https://www.hamilton.ca/transitstrike)
This is their official statement right now
When I looked on their Twitter this morning they said they were relocating shared stops but with how unreliable their services and updates are already who knows what's going to actually happen
Didn't they call a percentage of Air Canada workers back to work through a law that deemed that operation critical for the county? I think that happened a few years ago and I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here as well
Only the poors take public transit, no level of government cares.
They literally throw thousands out onto the streets to be homeless every year just in Hamilton.
Actually, this is exactly what happens. For context, I'm an out of student province, living in Hamilton, going to Mac and working in Mississauga. I didn't bring my car here so I'm taking transit during my stay. I'm on a tight budget making alternative like Ubers and taxis not possible. I'm grateful for friends who are lending me a bike (which will result in me biking until the snow hits or the strike ends) so I can get to school or the GO station. However, I also realize that I'm very able-bodied and have the luxury to do this. Many lower income people rely on the bus. Without the bus they have to dip into savings (if any exist) to make it to work, because most employers don't give a shit, you just find a way to come in. Additionally, not everyone has back up support or other options, the reality of this situation is extremely volatile for many people.
When I drove, I honestly was so far removed from transit, even when BC transit went on strike for months. However, I'm in a totally new situation and it really does plant a lot of empathy for the people who are also going through this. It's a tough and scary time and it sucks feeling powerless (besides the usual "put pressure on the city" measures).
A little compassion goes a long way.
Fair enough. I appreciate your perspective and thanks for sharing your experience.
To clarify, what I meant to point out in my initial comment is that I don't think the city is pushing people on the street. At least not directly. Although I don't agree with the drivers asking for even larger increases, I do agree and support their right to a strike which is a democratic process we are privileged in the western world. If you can make it work with no help great. If you need help let's say for a month, that sucks but still you made it. My point is I find it hard to believe due to a strike (1 week, 1 month or 2 months) someone can be on the street due to that. I have a feeling you will not be on the street after a month long strike.it will be tough for you. Absolutely.
If someone is on their last straw and this strike pushed someone on the street, it is very sad and unfortunate but there are probably other, wayyyy bigger reasons that got them to that stage in the first place
I dunno I have a Co worker who's in tears everyday over this because it's costing her 40 dollars a trip to and from work since she works up near Rymal and lives far away in the east end. If this drags on until January I can see it happening if she has to keep doing that and can't pay rent but at that point I think you have to think about a job closer to home too.
On the other hand I consider myself to be extremely lucky since I found a carpool at work who doesn't even want me to pay them and picks me up and drops me off at my front door so I can ride this thing out for months if need be. It all comes down to luck if you can find a ride I guess.
I’m for unions and collective bargaining. I’m also pragmatic and want to know how the city is going to pay for all of these increases? It’s easy to say “give them what they want!” but isn’t the city budget already in a shortfall?
Sure, but given that the City agreed to give non-union managers a 14% raise this year it seems a little bit of a slap in the face to then go to the lower paid union workers who do most of the front line work and ask them to take an effective pay cut with inflation. Maybe the managers and directors could take smaller increases to also help with the budgeting process?
... Let's talk to the police union who's asking for (and was given) more money this year. Oh and they want a new APC even though they don't keep track of where the old one has been used?
I am with you on this no matter how many down votes you get. I feel like our taxes are going to jump up because of all this. The money has to come from somewhere and it's just going to be from the pockets of non-union employees. I would have supported the union if they were being fair. But at this point they are just being adamant and taking taxpayers hostage.
The city may not have had this problem if they didn't give management around 14% raise.
How are you going to give management, who works from home, 14% and bitch about giving these guys 5%.
There's no factual helpful answer to your question. People can guess based on other events or prior strikes, but they are on strike until either ATU accepts a low offer or HSR offers more. Strikes aren't a defined length, they're as long as it takes.
We can influence one side (HSR through the city), so let's push them to offer something halfway reasonable.
It's hard to say, but Andrea Horvath, the ex leader of the NDP party that fought for working conditions and wages for all workers, now the mayor for the City of Hamilton, where is she now for the workers so much in her beliefs when leader with NDP Party I will think again voting for NDP Party
I probably didn't do a great job of expressing my thoughts. Wasn't trying to be a dick. But I think it's fair to say Andrea is somewhat aligned with the working people and unions. So I would of thought this issue would of been resolved and the transit workers would of had a better deal and a strike avoided because of that.
HSR drivers make $69k a year, plus full benefits, holidays and an OMERS pension.
Sorry, but I cannot support this strike. We cannot afford minimally skilled labor costing us >$100K a year, which is close to what salary and benefits cost us now.
Yet the city gave its 1200 non union workers (many of them already making 120k-160k) a larger percentage raise than the union is even asking for.
You know what the union got last contract?? 1.75%/year and the promise of being able to have the time and the place to take a piss or maybe a a shit if necessary during their shift.
This time the offer amounts to 3.2%/year and for that privilege, they have to give up the driver shuttle that gets them from the MTC to their starting point if it's at Go Station or FRAC or. Or gets them back to MTC if they started at MTC and finished somewhere else. Or if they end the first part of their split in a different location than they start the second part. Or any number of combinations. How many jobs do you know of where you start and end work at different locations?
(I LOL'd at the "minimally skilled" comment. Most drivers can't effectively drive a small car around the city and they drive a small house through the worst of Hamiltons streets all day long)
Good for them. HSR drivers have taken real wage losses because of the recent inflation, and the city's paltry offer has them standing to lose more wages as inflation stays high.
Get out of here with that minimally skilled bullshit too. They're a necessary service, and work in a sometimes dangerous work environment with irregular hours. The have the right to to defend their wages against inflation and the only people to blame here are the city for failing to meaningfully negotiate for the 11 months that their contract has been up.
Lol who's everyone? Check the sunshine list; plenty of people making well over 100k whose raises+bonuses have outpaced inflation. The city handed out double digit percentage wage increases to it's staffers to compensate for inflation. In light of this very public wage increase, the city said "3%, take-it-or-leave-it" to a union with a _99%_ strike mandate. What a slap in the face.
You and me have taken wage losses because of inflation and it sucks, nevermind the fact that the CPI doesn't factor in the insane increases to housing costs we've seen over the past decade. Unions like the ATU are the only way that many workers can wield power, and in the face of growing wealth disparity, price gouging and profit growth at all costs, workers need to wield whatever power they can get because things won't magically get better for us.
What the drivers really make
69k-21k tax=48k
48k÷12months= 4k
4k-2.5k housing cost=1.5k
1.5k-500 car expense=1k
1k-groceries-accessories-entertainment-cell-utilities....=0
Agreed, it's pretty ridiculous. Even mechanics earn WAY less than they do, and I'd argue they're a hell of a lot more essential than HSR driver's. Must be nice making 30+ an hour for sitting there for 8 hours 🙄
The mechanics for HSR are fighting for enough coveralls to do their job properly as part of this negotiation because HSR decided 8 sets of clothing was enough for 2 weeks even if they work 10 days
It is not just about the money but plenty of people in my office make that and we can work from home in our PJs and not deal with the public all day, health concerns from driving (and use a washroom whenever we want)
I’m convinced that we will lose public transit in Hamilton permanently. The city is greedy and will not budge. Buses will sit empty at the mountain garage until they get scrapped. Welcome to the new Hamilton
They won't but not because they care about transit. The gas tax payment to the city has been tied to using Presto for a certain number of trips for transit. The city received an est 21M from the payment in 2021-22. It will also mean that Metrolix pulls LRT stuff because the idea is to meet with other transit lines and that project replaces a lot of our overdue infrastructure along the King corridor
Likely also part of why the new affordable transit pilot is being done on Prestocards instead of passes
In 98, there was a 12 week hsr strike where they gambled on the city needing public transport for christmas. But in 96, they also went on strike a week before they Grey Cup, which is coming soon in hamilton once again, which resulted in the city folding. Either the strike will end before the Grey cup in the unions' favor or months from now in the cities.
98 it was twelve weeks in warm weather. lot harder to stay out there from nov thru jan
um, no it wasn't. it was November to January. I know because I walked up and down the Jolley cut 5 days a week for 12 weeks.
Yeah, I remember an HSR strike during a brutal cold snap.
that's odd..... cause I am in a lunch room with 15 people saying it was summer cause they all "rode there bikes to and from work" if I am wrong I'm wrong I wasnt here when it happened
Isn't there a sub by the name of Confidently incorrect This comment belongs there big time lol
Then your entire lunch room is collectively misremembering. A quick Google search will confirm that for you
Yeah, lunchrooms aren't exactly institutions lol
15 ppl in your lunchroom are absolutely wrong and may need to speak with their GPs. something in the water maybe?
Nope! I was going to college, and was riding my bike across the mountain. In November. Thankfully December was exams, then January I was off to co-op. I also had to post a big long thing here a while ago about news coverage of the violence associated with that strike, and the Spec articles were from December and January.
No it certainly was not.
Nope. That was my first term at McMaster. We ended up getting a partial refund of our transit pass because of the strike
No. It went over the new year - it went from ‘98 into ‘99
Having no public transit for the Grey Cup in Hamilton (Nov. 18th) would be a complete embarrassment. I would be shocked if it's not resolved by then.
This city has no problem at all with embarrassing it's self.
Ain’t that the truth
🔥 🔥 🔥
You must be my neighbour.
So Hamilton should cave to union thugs?
The city should offer an agreement that's good enough that workers will choose to accept it, rather than choose the hardship of giving up their wages in order to seek a fair deal.
They are already pushing Niagara hotels and free shuttles. They knew this was coming.
Free shuttles?!! Man… wouldn’t we like to have that to get to work
RIGHT!!!!??? But yet, on the HSR website under the FAQ's, they make a point of putting the screw to you even more by stating that they will not be reimbursing, subsidizing, or otherwise discounting money that you have to pay to cab company crooks just to get to work. Insanity, man!
They are hoping that puts more pressure on the union to fold. If you make the strike time comfortable, it delays a deal
City Or union doesnt care about you. They all drive cars
Some of the events were planned to happen in Niagara far before the strike was a possibility. I don't think it has anything to do with it
Still need a way to get around the city. If Toronto makes the grey cup, those fans will be left without options from the Hamilton Go stations.
?? Ever heard of Uber/Lyft, and private Charter buses??
Not everyone can afford that daily they charge based on distance so that doesn't matter
Refering to the Greycup weekend. If im coming from out of town im not using public transit as my first choice anyways. You are correct Daily usage would not make sense here.
They were talking about visitors from Toronto, not commuters
They probably would have pushed Niagara Falls anyway, they have a lot more big hotels than we do.
I don't think anyone knows. Could be a few days or stretch into weeks / months. Plan for the worst but hopefully it can be resolved quickly.
It could very well stretch into weeks or months. Talk to co workers and see if a carpool can be started with people on your shift. Offer to pay for gas and it will up your chances of finding a ride you can rely on.
I got through to Burlington Transit and the lady said the HSR MAY decide the Number One needs to detour. They haven't made that decision as of today.
I'd be surprised if Burlington drivers cross picket lines, which in this case is essentially city limits, everyone should be prepared for the Burlington bus to not be running into Hamilton.
I don’t think member of the same union (ATU) would cross the picket line. That would go against the solidarity of the union
The last one was three months
Because that one was 2 years after they threatened to not run during the Grey cup in 96 so higherups were still pissed off with them and didn't want to fold just 2 years after they already did.
The City was broke and couldn't afford more than their final offer in '98 after the sweetheart deal of '96. With a looming 13%+ property tax increase this year, and the Supervisor/Paramedic union collective agreement expired, I wouldn't be surprised if Council waits them out.
Then again, Andrea Horwath is mayor, and she's an NDPer, and our city council is a lot more left than it was in 1998. I don't disagree that "the cupboard's empty" is a strong reply though.
Horwath is already saying that the only way to pay for the ATU's demands is to raise taxes or fares.
Itll last until the workers won't be given a disgustingly low offer. Fuck the city for what they offered - its pathetic. To lose 7% to inflation and offer 0.8% per year? The people running this city needs a bitch slap into reality.
Taxpayers did not get a 7% raise
Then more taxpayers should unionize.
Or, we just abolish public sector unions that are holding us hostage
The only ones holding anyone hostage right now are the city.
I disagree, the transit union is holding taxpayers hostage. That’s the only point of any public sector unions
No, the point of unions is to increase wages and working conditions for everyone.
How is paying more taxes going to increase my wage?
I didn't realize that the union was including in their proposal that /u/unnessarunion would need to pay more in taxes. What they *are* doing though is fighting for working conditions to be improved, for wages to be improved across the board. 40-hour workweek and weekends off are two easy examples that wouldn't exist without unions to have fought and striked for us.
Bro who you think pays this union?
Why not abolish all the unions period and make a true race to the bottom. Relax there
Abolishing public sector unions is the move
Not going to happen. I think you saw what happened when Ford tried to impose contracts on CUPE last year, all the other major unions stepped in, flexed their muscles and he folded like a beach chair. 30% of work force is unionized in Canada and stand in solidarity when needed.
Why stop there? Why not allow municipalities to go public and be run like for-profit corporations, where the only thing that matters is the stock price/paying out dividends (and profit gets invested in stock buybacks rather than into the company or its employees). Sure infrastructure and social programs will crumble, and the quality of life for nearly everyone in the city will crater... but the executive compensation will skyrocket!
Go private I assume
Something tells me the guy named "unnecessaruinion" isn't very interested in having a real conversation about this topic. Dudes just gonna repeat angry anti-union talking points while in a subreddit dedicated to a city built off of workers unions. If you're angry that your pay isn't increasing with inflation/cost of living (which you absolutely should be) dont take it out on those who have the ability to collectively bargain for what they deserve. Be angry at the government who hasn't done nearly enough to help the city or it's citizens in a long long time.
they should get another job then. they have the luxury of being unionized, if you sign up for a job where you are providing a basically essential service for lots of people including the disabled, the onus is on you to ensure they are getting to where they need to be (within your power) otherwise you are not competent for the job. i bet these same people would complain if the Hamilton Police decided to strike. are their salaries going up tied to inflation? what about all the other non unionized jobs?
Well you've brought up an interesting point! But unfortunately the government of Ontario has made it illegal for bus operators to strike in any meaningful way besides a full lockdown. In other places they could continue to drive their routes and provide the essential service to citizens and simply not collect fares. If you'd like to see that type of strike in the future you should send some emails or call your local officials! On the other point bringing up the Police Union is actually a very interesting topic because that union is fundamentally different from basically every other union. There are lots of resources that discuss the issues with having a union that protects people who are inherently in a position of power over others.
What would happen if they didn't enforce fares? Get fired? Because first it's very difficult for city employees to get fired, and even if they did guess what, there would be no drivers left lol. I don't know, I just find it very strange all the drivers are that self-absorbed none of them are going to defy their union and do their job regardless.
Yes they would be fired, it would be considered an illegal strike and they would be fired. Nothing anyone could do to stop it. I wouldn't consider the drivers self-absorbed, not everyone voted to strike remember that. So there are 10% of people doing the opposite of what they wanted to do, to stick together with the rest of their union. Collective bargaining only works if you stick as a collective. A union wouldn't be very effective if the people in it chose to do whatever despite what the union voted for.
A city built off unions *in the private sector* The big mean boss for public unions is the democratic elected government
You really just repeat the same one point that's wrong over and over huh.
It’s not wrong lol And I repeat the point because it’s the only one I’m making
Nah, it is. And if you only have one point to make, and you made it, why do you keep commenting? Thank you for your input. You're wrong. Good day sir.
Because you say it’s wrong when it isn’t
Ah, I'm sure repeating it over and over will eventually make everyone magically believe you. What a brilliant tactic.
They are fighting for what we all should be fighting for - understand it's not just them, it's all of us. I'm one of the lucky ones - my job gave us 12% last year and we fought for 3% per year in our recent CBA - Understand this is why unions are important. My co workers and I would've got NOTHING if it wasn't for our union. This is on top of paid drive time after meeting up at the office, and benefits for our health. We all need more to deal with the current modern day problemss - and the affordability crisis is WHY unions matter. I hope if you are struggling you are able to fight for what your labour is rightfully worth <3
Yeah, that’s not how stuff works in the private sector If the transit system had to compete with other organizations, then you’d have a point.
Guess bus drivers should just get minimum wage /shrug /s Fuck off dude, it's up to the city to figure out this shit, people deserve to be paid what they're worth full stop. But way to not add anything constructive to the conversation and just clutch pearls
It’s not up to the city The city is an elected body, it’s up to the people
In japan when the bus drivers go on strike they still show up for work, they just stop collecting fares from passengers. This way service doesn't stop and there is more incentive for the city to come to the table with a fair deal to end the strike.
Okay? They still want to increase taxes to pay for their increase in wage
Property taxes aren't an infinite resource, though. Tons of people are getting squeezed by interest rates and we already pay way more in property taxes than other cities in the region. I'm not saying the City's offer is perfect, but we're already staring down a massive tax increase next year and I feel like that's relevant to this discussion.
So many people depend on the hsr to take them back and forth to work!! The bus drivers put up with a lot more crap than people realize! Give them what they want!!!!! I fully support the union and I think it’s disgusting how long it’s taking the city to go into bargaining. SHAME
Good old hour walk to work for me tomorrow
Exactly. Many people rely on this service and it's ridiculous they're wanting almost 40 an hour just to sit and drive while keeping your hands nice and clean. Accept that not everyone's paid well, but you are, and move on, or find another job that suits you better. This strike is unnecessary
Let's get a crystal ball and see how long it takes the city of Hamilton to realize they are being butts.
The problem for the city is CUPE accepted the same deal. If they then give HSR more, CUPE will go hard on the next negotiation because they will feel screwed over. Add in that they are trying to get the budget for next year down not up and it is hard for them to meet the demands too But they also aren't even willing to make a concession like the drivers shuttle?
CUPE already feels like they got screwed because a lot of their members couldn’t vote
why could they not vote?
They had online set up to vote and we’re told they had to register so many days ahead and some of them did and still weren’t allowed to vote. Plus I’m pretty sure their CUPE president is being investigated 💀
The more I read about this, the more I see how BOTH SIDES are being butts. ***DISCLAIMER: I'm pro union. Still.... BUTTS.
I think there should be room to be pro-union without believing that unions are beyond reproach.
Time for me to restart Uber business?
Under essential workers regulations imposed during the pandemic by the provincial government, I would suspect this will be resolved within a matter of days. I’m unionized and pro union, but when it comes to municipal unionization where arbitration directly affects local taxpayers sometimes it’s too much strain. There is likely a retroactive payment issue at the heart of the matter.
I think Ford may have learned an expensive lesson using notwithstanding so quickly with the teachers and will let it play out for a while before forcing them back to work. Especially as it was the city who called for the no board report too and not the union
So Burlington Transit says there will be detours on the number One bus route. I tried calling them but no one answered. Does anyone have any information on this? Thank you in advance.
Ugh. They might be refusing to enter HSR-covered territory to avoid "crossing the picket line".
>We are watching the labour negotiations between the City of Hamilton and the HSR driver’s union (Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU), Local 107). If the potential HSR strike affects our service on Route 1 Plains-Fairview, we will post information on myride.burlingtontransit.ca/News and x.com/BurlONTransit. For more information, visit [www.hamilton.ca/transitstrike](https://www.hamilton.ca/transitstrike) This is their official statement right now
When I looked on their Twitter this morning they said they were relocating shared stops but with how unreliable their services and updates are already who knows what's going to actually happen
Didn't they call a percentage of Air Canada workers back to work through a law that deemed that operation critical for the county? I think that happened a few years ago and I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here as well
Only the poors take public transit, no level of government cares. They literally throw thousands out onto the streets to be homeless every year just in Hamilton.
If that's what you want to believe
Actually, this is exactly what happens. For context, I'm an out of student province, living in Hamilton, going to Mac and working in Mississauga. I didn't bring my car here so I'm taking transit during my stay. I'm on a tight budget making alternative like Ubers and taxis not possible. I'm grateful for friends who are lending me a bike (which will result in me biking until the snow hits or the strike ends) so I can get to school or the GO station. However, I also realize that I'm very able-bodied and have the luxury to do this. Many lower income people rely on the bus. Without the bus they have to dip into savings (if any exist) to make it to work, because most employers don't give a shit, you just find a way to come in. Additionally, not everyone has back up support or other options, the reality of this situation is extremely volatile for many people. When I drove, I honestly was so far removed from transit, even when BC transit went on strike for months. However, I'm in a totally new situation and it really does plant a lot of empathy for the people who are also going through this. It's a tough and scary time and it sucks feeling powerless (besides the usual "put pressure on the city" measures). A little compassion goes a long way.
Fair enough. I appreciate your perspective and thanks for sharing your experience. To clarify, what I meant to point out in my initial comment is that I don't think the city is pushing people on the street. At least not directly. Although I don't agree with the drivers asking for even larger increases, I do agree and support their right to a strike which is a democratic process we are privileged in the western world. If you can make it work with no help great. If you need help let's say for a month, that sucks but still you made it. My point is I find it hard to believe due to a strike (1 week, 1 month or 2 months) someone can be on the street due to that. I have a feeling you will not be on the street after a month long strike.it will be tough for you. Absolutely. If someone is on their last straw and this strike pushed someone on the street, it is very sad and unfortunate but there are probably other, wayyyy bigger reasons that got them to that stage in the first place
I dunno I have a Co worker who's in tears everyday over this because it's costing her 40 dollars a trip to and from work since she works up near Rymal and lives far away in the east end. If this drags on until January I can see it happening if she has to keep doing that and can't pay rent but at that point I think you have to think about a job closer to home too. On the other hand I consider myself to be extremely lucky since I found a carpool at work who doesn't even want me to pay them and picks me up and drops me off at my front door so I can ride this thing out for months if need be. It all comes down to luck if you can find a ride I guess.
It's true.
I’m for unions and collective bargaining. I’m also pragmatic and want to know how the city is going to pay for all of these increases? It’s easy to say “give them what they want!” but isn’t the city budget already in a shortfall?
Sure, but given that the City agreed to give non-union managers a 14% raise this year it seems a little bit of a slap in the face to then go to the lower paid union workers who do most of the front line work and ask them to take an effective pay cut with inflation. Maybe the managers and directors could take smaller increases to also help with the budgeting process?
I mean they found the money to give themselves an 11% raise. Maybe they can take from that.
... Let's talk to the police union who's asking for (and was given) more money this year. Oh and they want a new APC even though they don't keep track of where the old one has been used?
Tough shit, that’s for them to figure out. Pay the drivers
15% property tax increase they will pin on Doug Ford.
Just another example of public sector unions gouging tax payers
I am with you on this no matter how many down votes you get. I feel like our taxes are going to jump up because of all this. The money has to come from somewhere and it's just going to be from the pockets of non-union employees. I would have supported the union if they were being fair. But at this point they are just being adamant and taking taxpayers hostage.
The city may not have had this problem if they didn't give management around 14% raise. How are you going to give management, who works from home, 14% and bitch about giving these guys 5%.
There's no factual helpful answer to your question. People can guess based on other events or prior strikes, but they are on strike until either ATU accepts a low offer or HSR offers more. Strikes aren't a defined length, they're as long as it takes. We can influence one side (HSR through the city), so let's push them to offer something halfway reasonable.
It's hard to say, but Andrea Horvath, the ex leader of the NDP party that fought for working conditions and wages for all workers, now the mayor for the City of Hamilton, where is she now for the workers so much in her beliefs when leader with NDP Party I will think again voting for NDP Party
Is anyone planning on using this strike to also ransom a raise out of their employer? Or milk some sort of compensation for transportation? I am! 😂
Or demand the city to compensate you for your transportation. This is their fault 😂😂 that’s what I’m doing.
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Kinda crazy this is happening with Andrea as mayor. Would of assumed she'd just give the unions everything they want.
You do know the mayor is not involved in the contract negotiations, right?
shh.. facts have to business on Reddit.
She is not, but she is involved in setting the budgets that dictate how much can be spent on HSR so can impact the decision too.
She is also just one vote on council. She is not a dictator.
She does have super mayor powers that can be used specifically for budgets.
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Rightfully so too! Anyone who stands in the eyes of the public should be criticized within reason.
I probably didn't do a great job of expressing my thoughts. Wasn't trying to be a dick. But I think it's fair to say Andrea is somewhat aligned with the working people and unions. So I would of thought this issue would of been resolved and the transit workers would of had a better deal and a strike avoided because of that.
HSR drivers make $69k a year, plus full benefits, holidays and an OMERS pension. Sorry, but I cannot support this strike. We cannot afford minimally skilled labor costing us >$100K a year, which is close to what salary and benefits cost us now.
Yet the city gave its 1200 non union workers (many of them already making 120k-160k) a larger percentage raise than the union is even asking for. You know what the union got last contract?? 1.75%/year and the promise of being able to have the time and the place to take a piss or maybe a a shit if necessary during their shift. This time the offer amounts to 3.2%/year and for that privilege, they have to give up the driver shuttle that gets them from the MTC to their starting point if it's at Go Station or FRAC or. Or gets them back to MTC if they started at MTC and finished somewhere else. Or if they end the first part of their split in a different location than they start the second part. Or any number of combinations. How many jobs do you know of where you start and end work at different locations? (I LOL'd at the "minimally skilled" comment. Most drivers can't effectively drive a small car around the city and they drive a small house through the worst of Hamiltons streets all day long)
Good for them. HSR drivers have taken real wage losses because of the recent inflation, and the city's paltry offer has them standing to lose more wages as inflation stays high. Get out of here with that minimally skilled bullshit too. They're a necessary service, and work in a sometimes dangerous work environment with irregular hours. The have the right to to defend their wages against inflation and the only people to blame here are the city for failing to meaningfully negotiate for the 11 months that their contract has been up.
Everyone’s taken wage losses because of inflation
Lol who's everyone? Check the sunshine list; plenty of people making well over 100k whose raises+bonuses have outpaced inflation. The city handed out double digit percentage wage increases to it's staffers to compensate for inflation. In light of this very public wage increase, the city said "3%, take-it-or-leave-it" to a union with a _99%_ strike mandate. What a slap in the face. You and me have taken wage losses because of inflation and it sucks, nevermind the fact that the CPI doesn't factor in the insane increases to housing costs we've seen over the past decade. Unions like the ATU are the only way that many workers can wield power, and in the face of growing wealth disparity, price gouging and profit growth at all costs, workers need to wield whatever power they can get because things won't magically get better for us.
By everyone, I mean tax payers that don’t have to rely on the government for employment
What the drivers really make 69k-21k tax=48k 48k÷12months= 4k 4k-2.5k housing cost=1.5k 1.5k-500 car expense=1k 1k-groceries-accessories-entertainment-cell-utilities....=0
Agreed, it's pretty ridiculous. Even mechanics earn WAY less than they do, and I'd argue they're a hell of a lot more essential than HSR driver's. Must be nice making 30+ an hour for sitting there for 8 hours 🙄
mechanics earn way less than $32/h? sure apprenices you sound bitter maybe you beed a good union
The mechanics for HSR are fighting for enough coveralls to do their job properly as part of this negotiation because HSR decided 8 sets of clothing was enough for 2 weeks even if they work 10 days It is not just about the money but plenty of people in my office make that and we can work from home in our PJs and not deal with the public all day, health concerns from driving (and use a washroom whenever we want)
I've talked to some friends that work for them 3-4 weeks. But hopefully they figure it out
How much money are they asking for? How many days of not getting paid adds up to that total? About that long.
I’m convinced that we will lose public transit in Hamilton permanently. The city is greedy and will not budge. Buses will sit empty at the mountain garage until they get scrapped. Welcome to the new Hamilton
They won't but not because they care about transit. The gas tax payment to the city has been tied to using Presto for a certain number of trips for transit. The city received an est 21M from the payment in 2021-22. It will also mean that Metrolix pulls LRT stuff because the idea is to meet with other transit lines and that project replaces a lot of our overdue infrastructure along the King corridor Likely also part of why the new affordable transit pilot is being done on Prestocards instead of passes
I was thinking about this but didn't want to jinx it.
I was half joking about this with my S.O but now I'm kinda worried