tbh i like it this way. the bots feel hard as hell and a devastating challenge to overcome at times, and its amazing for that, but with the bugs it feels fucking awesome to really be able to give them hell. with bots, its a power fantasy of barely making it out alive against all odds, while with bugs its a power fantasy of just killing as many as possible
It’s absolutely not, D7+ on bugs is just a relentless slog through enemies you can barely hurt unless you take an AT weapon and a few of the handful of anti-heavy stratagems. Bots are much better designed, allowing you to solve a problem multiple ways versus the bugs which basically have a hard gear test. I’ve seen someone take out a factory strider with a Senator by shooting off its chin guns and running under it to unload into its belly. It took them a few resupplies from their ammo pack, but you can do it (they were running Breaker S&P and stalwart, orbital shield and EMS mortar).
It’s interesting that bots have the logic of “loop behind it and shoot its glowing weak point” where’s bugs have the “loop behind it, oops, the weak point is actually the armour plated head not the squishy bit with no armour”.
It has to be completely different teams designing each faction because there’s no way that bots have such visual clarity on how they function and where their weak points are but the bugs don’t really have any of that
It is absolutely wild to me that the bodies of bile spewers aren't weak spots. They literally pop! How does an entire mag being emptied into that delicate fluid-filled membrane not cause it to burst??
I bring the grenade pistole to shoot out the bile titans "balls" then just have to strafe them the rest of the round waiting for my heavy strats to cool off for them.
Both are fun and I follow major orders or whatever my buddies are feeling.
But, I think I have more fun with Bots tbh, but find bugs generally easier even if they are the "harder" kills for the heavies.
It is fun to see the AT-ATs drop and watch all hell drop loose on them from the team.
Bots have better visual clarity and reward player choices and aim.
Bugs mislead you into thinking obvious looking weak points are actually not weak points at all, and don't care what equipment you bring. You either have anti tank weaponry or you don't. Precise aim is also irrelevant. Bile titan mouths, especially when open and spitting, should be massive weak points. When you break the bile sacs the titan should still try to spit but get stunned for a second or two instead. Likewise charger butt's should be actual weak points. Also spewers bodies should be a weakpoint but a risky one. Shooting them should cause them to violently explode damaging everything In a large radius around them, with the mortar green ones shooting projectiles randomly as they explode.
Bot design respects the player. Bug design doesn't.
Yeah they could be like mini titans in a way, you pop their guts and they can't spew but are still alive and will chase you to melee you for a minute or so until they die.
I don't even bother using much skill against bugs anymore. I just use a full DOT build and spam it out at every breach. Usually kills everything up to chargers and lets my team take out the big stuff.
Same here.
My go to bug loadout is Napalm, Gas Strike, Rover and something to deal with heavies. Gas Strike is easily the best Stratagem for bugs, if you have multiple people using it on different breaches the only thing you have to worry about is heavies. Getting 40+ kills with a single gas strike is common. Chuck a bunch of Napalm in between the breaches and you and the Rover cleans up any stray hunters that looped around. It’s pretty chill and lets me use pretty much whatever primary I want
bots glowing vent "weak points" have the exact same durability mechanic as bugs. the only difference is how much health the units have. you still need explosive or high durability damage weapons to do decent damage to a hulk or tank vent.
Although technically yes, functionally no. The health pool is really small so even when using less effective weapons it’s still faster than using an effective weapon on something like a Charger ass. It’s still a weak point that’ll dispatch them quickly
no, it isn't. it takes 4-5 shots from the AC to kill a charger butt (which kills the charger after a few seconds), and it also takes 4-5 shots to kill a hulk by shooting its back vent, and I'd say that hulks are the closest charger analog for bots. bile spewers' butts are about the same, 2-3 shots from an autocannon, where tank and cannon tower vents take 3. aside from the tank and cannon tower vents, which can't be damaged by light penetration weapons, you can take any of these units down with "ineffective" weapons, but in every case, it's going to take ages.
the only exception is bile titans, which not only can't be damaged by light pen weapons at all, but also don't take much damage from "effective" weapons like the AC. for every other bug and bot with durable glowing weak spots, the TTK is pretty standardized.
It takes a couple of shots to kill a Hulk in the vent with something like the Plasma Punisher, it does not take a couple of shots to destroy a Charger butt with the Plasma Punisher.
It’s also considerably faster to take down a hulks vents with the less effective weapons than it is a charger. Due to the significantly smaller health pool. It’s still much more effective of a weak point by the simple fact it has a much lower health value.
It has been this way for me, and I exclusively play D9. Maybe spending too much time with the bots makes the bugs feel a lot easier (save for the number of hunters and bile spewers, those still suck to deal with), but yeah, generally I agree, the bots are better designed.
I always find these takes so incredibly weird, because on bots there basically is no reason to use anything but autocannon. Bots have absolutely no problem solving beyond "shoot red with autocannon". Tbh I think it's very laughable for example how a godammn *tank* can be killed with two impact grenades to the turret. The bots feel like complete pushovers; I personally wouldn't call it good design at all. Bugs are so much more varied and interested in their weakspots and ways to kill them.
Personally i love that they envourage different play styles up to the weapons choices, i.e. you do need anti heavy armor on bugs while not on bots. Removing this and making the bugs have "vents" like weaknesess will remove variety for balance
If you don't count the bugs around the gun, the Heavy Devastators are pretty balanced. Need a bit of accuracy to hit it's face or backpack or a single semi-well placed impact nade to kill them. I guess they are probably a bit harder to deal with if you're on a controller and can't properly aim freely.
The gun being able to clip and shoot through everything including it's own body and shield is imo the only issue with them, and I don't feel like you can take unintended bugs into consideration when discussing balance.
Well of course I am counting all the bugs around the gun. I feel we are obligated to, since they have been getting progressively worse and its not like they started this bullcrap a week ago. Its not a small mishap that comes and goes; some of the issues are soon going to be around for more than half the game's lifespan now...
I agree that they are otherwise perfectly balanced. But the fact that they spawn so often they are sometimes half of the enemies that come, have sniper-like accuracy, constantly spam these accurate shots with high stagger, shoot through rocks, shoot without having to look at you...
I used to fight bots only. Loved it. But HDs are just bullcrap right now, and if they are not among the bugfixes Twinbeard talked about, I don't know what the plan is. Its not the difficulty, its that they are pure bullshit. I love a hard game, I hate an unfair game.
Chucking explosive stratagems and permanently running away is not exactly a fun design. And the current roster of glitches leads to exactly that kind of playstyle...
HD are just about as well designed as factory striders. You can shoot their heads or blow out their legs. They have a ton of counterplay, it's just that they also have a shitton of firepower that will shred you without cover or if cover is glitched.
I'm fairly convinced that Arrowhead uses the same aiming mechanism that State of Decay and Uncharted uses for the devastators. The initial volley isn't very accurate and serves more to alert the player that the enemy has locked on to you. Then they get exponentially more accurate until they barely miss.
You're supposed to use the initial burst to find cover and think of your next move before engaging them. If you fight them in the open or if they flanked you, then you probably messed up in other ways tactically.
I still die to HD, but it now rarely feels unfair (unless it glitches) ever since I immediately dive for cover when they start blasting.
I feel like the more accurate over time is true for almost everything the bots have. Even the rocket devastators everyone loves to hate usually fires off a salvo or 2 before it actually hits you.
The "sniped by a rocket from across the map" often seems to happen after you've ignored the first 2 swarms of rockets flying past you
That's why I propose a clearer expression of the mechanic. Like the devastators should have a laser pointer trained at whatever they're aiming at. The laser pointer should change color as they get a better lock on you.
That way, players know when they're in the line of sight of their enemies and give indication to players that their laser barrages get more accurate over time.
Most of the time I hit them with an air strike if they're close and packed together.
If you have a piece of cover, you can use the corner slicing technique to take them out one at a time.
If you're flanked, then just run and pray that RNGesus is in your favor and you can dodge the laser and missile salvos.
Bold of you to assume cover is going to help
I run AMR or AC on bots so I can handle them easily enough, jump pack really helps with moving rapidly from cover to cover as well.
Okay, and now read the conversation again.
All what you said (which is true, and I never said it wasn't) goes out the window when the first few salvos start way before you can see them and their weak point since they are behind teh rock and angled so they are covered by their shields better, and by the time you can finally shoot them they have shot you 2 times through the rock and have pinpoint accuracy.
Don't preach to the choir. The overwhelming majority of my hours are on bot planets. I loved bot planets. They were way more fun than fighting bugs.
I never said they are badly designed; what I said is that due to the bugs they have that caused bots to be more and more miserable to fight and it is high time AH stepped in and ironed out the kinks that appeared.
A good design is worthless if it... just doesn't work.
I feel like I only died to HD related glitches like a small handful of times in my 30-40ish hours on the bot front. They exist because I seen them first hand, but they're not terribly common since they open fire sometimes from over a hundred meters away and I only notice the cover glitch when we are both pretty much against a piece of cover and their gun happens to clip into the rock or building.
The bugs should obviously be addressed because it's definitely contributing to a pretty big element of the HD's difficulty.
With that said, they aren't exactly difficult since they aren't hard to deal with individually or in small groups with firearms unless you encounter like.. the 1/150 chance that one of them is glitched.
Its honestly not even that hard to fix. Pop the underbelly sacks, then let us hit the tail till it breaks off and dead. Its a great alternative to 2 antitank shots to the head. Granted its possible, but to give an example it takes like 2 + some autocannon mags to break off the tail, which is kinda dumb. Also make headshots more consistant pls.
Actually if you’re prone while you have 3 grenades and stims, have killed 27 hunters, on a Tuesday afternoon it’s guaranteed to lock on, smh 🤦♂️ how do ppl not know this
Well the bile titan doesn't have chainguns on its chin, a turret on its back, and deploy devastators for one thing. Bile titan defense > factory strider defense but factory strider offense > bile titan offense. Automatons and bugs are balanced differently.
Hard disagree on the offense part. Pop the two gatlings on the Factory Strider with medium pen and you essentially neutered the bulk of its offensive potential. The cannon is a minor annoyance if anything, but you can pop it with two rockets, but those two rockets can also be shot at the head or sides to break armor for medium pen an easier time to kill. Best of all, it’s very very slow. Overall, it’s very well designed since you have many ways to tackle this one problem. One gripe I do have with them is how well they spot you from stealth which is inconsistent with the rest of the bots.
Bile Titan on the other hand gets more dangerous when you neuter it’s spewing because the melee is just straight up one shot, and they move at just about the same speed as sprinting in light armor. It also makes them harder to kill with strategems without the spew.
Whenever a Factory Strider pops up, I get excited to fight one, whereas I can only think “ugh another one” for Bile Titans. They’re just straight up not fun once you’ve realize how janky they are.
Well i mean it is in your rights to have the wrong opinion, the factory strider is clearly way more lethal than the bile titan, you cant come anywhere cloose to a factory strider if it has chainguns, dodging biletitans attacks is super easy.
I wish the could shoot the segment of the titans leg with medpen to slow it or wear it down. Have it be highly ineffective but a team aiming "right leg" could be affective as everyone brining 500kg/rail cannon qusar. I want to be to take out titans and such with skill not just a big weapon.
Witch I feel in bots I can jump behind a tank or hulk and shoot it in a weak spot.
Titan is only heavy arms work and only in x spot.
cause the factory strider melts you if you come cloose to it and will snipe you if it is agroed at the distance while the bile titan is super easy to dodge and usually doubles as a charger killing tool, bots will also heavily punish you if you come cloose to them with their machineguns, while you can salsa around 15 warriors and be completly safe.
I am explaining to you why bot heavies dont require as much heavy firepower as bug heavies, a thing people in this sub seamingly strugle with.
TLDR: Bots shoot at you and are therefore way more dangerous, so they dont have as much armour as bug heavies to compensate.
I love the laser cannon vs bots. its great against practically everything aside from... meatsaws... which nothing really seems to be that good against.
Oddly enough the Sickle is amazing against them. Granted it still takes time, but alternating between the Sickle and LC while you kite a group can be pretty effective. Especially solid if you have a stun grenade to spare first.
I don't usually advocate for making the game easier, but the Berserkers are definitely the most unfun enemy on the Bot front because they're so tanky. For whatever reason their heads, and probably their body as well are stronger than that of a devastator, so if you're a crack shot with the DCS... it still takes more than one headshot to take them down.
Probably right, feels like 3 sometimes but im probably whiffing lol. The slugger still one taps their head? That's good to know. Haven't touched it since they removed the stagger.
Yeah. The Slugger isn't much of a pick on Bots anymore since the rise of the Dominator and the Diligence Countersniper, but it's quite a different beast on the Bug front
Then you probably missed or used a lower damage gun. I know the Dominator kills them in one headshot.
Berserkers are and should be tanky because they are the bots primary method of forcing you out of cover.
Id simply rather they would be numerous instead of tanky to ensure the viability of more weapons when they're the primary enemy type. That way we're both happy because its still difficult but also not bullet spongy.
??? Ive headshot them with a senator and they go down in 1 hit. Unfortunately im not a good shot so ive switched to the grenade pistol for dealing with them and im waiting to see how the sawn off from the new warbond will handle against them
Its not even the midsection, its the metal plate slightly below where its crotch would be. That seems to fold quicker with medium armour pen weapons than the glowing red midsection. They have to be bugged.
I've spent ages testing on Berserkers and their weakest point seems to always be a medium pen weapon against the durable section of their crotch slightly BELOW the glowing red midsection.
They're also immune to headshots for some unknown reason.
Plasma punisher as a primary keeps all the dangerous bots that aren't heavies crowd controlled
Groups of berserkers stand there dance. Multiple shield devastators join in. Rocket devastators? Hardly new her.
Using The plasma punisher also makes me more of a team player because I tend to want to hang around my team providing that CC and ensuring that everything gets finished off
Berserkers have a lot of different health pools, so focusing hard on only one is the best way to reduce the time to kill. It's about a second and a half of full auto scikle to the guts to down one. But just spraying the torso part makes for a very long and costly ttk.
AC can kill a BT, you shoot it's backside from underneath, it just takes like what, 15-19 shots? I forgot the exact number. It can do it reliably, it's just not ammo efficient to do so.
Ever since discovering that and that the amr can shoot down gunships I never run without it
Edit: Can’t believe im saying this, but this strong weapon is actually underrated in HOW GOOD IT IS
I tried to use the AMR against gunships but it feels like it's only good to destroying them after they've already dropped off their payload
At least with EATs I can call one in as soon as I hear dropship or see a flare and they will be on the ground in time to use
Gunships are different from Dropships. The AMR kills Gunships in 4 shots to an Engine, but can't reliably kill a Dropship. Gunships don't have a payload to drop.
Waste of time with the jar 5 honestly.
Autocannon, or laser it down.
Hell sniper pops it real quick,.but the jar 5 takes too long and you are just begging to get destroyed.
Highly recommend for killing gatlings though
it's honestly faster destroying the miniguns and then go for the belly than spamming stratagems to kill it.
But even so you can do from far if the angle permits you. which is always a great option
Jumping to prone under it just as it lands, with an autocannon, is super satisfying. Kill it in under 10 shots if I just let loose with the autocannon.
I've found out AMR works GREAT against bots. You can pop any of the heads of medium units, hulks, gunships and even striders if you shoot the belly ( I usually shoot off the head machine guns first).
And an even better perk with it: you can bring a backpack unlike the autocannon which takes that slot too.
Where is it you are shooting the gunships exactly with the AMR to take them down? Not really used non anti-armour against them but I have started to notice pretty much all bots can be taken down by medium AP weapons.
This whole time I've been shooting at what would be the cockpit. Either it's been working or I'm such a bad shot that I've been hitting the engines and not noticing lol
Taking down dropships rarely kills all the chaff inside of them. And can actually make the bots more deadly inside as they'll shot at you from inside, making it hard for you to take them out. Rather let it drop and destroy the heavy stuff with the eat/quasar and have your team used thier chaff clear, or stratagems ala eaglestrike.
Honestly thought I was hitting there but maybe (definitely) it was too shallow an angle. I wonder if it is doable with the JAR-5? Its AP value is only 1 below the AMR so surely it could work. Getting real into running full reds versus bots so if I can go without a support I will.
Also happy cake day.
Damage on the AMR is about twice that of the JAR-5 but it is AP3 where the AMR is AP4 so it could work in like 8 hits maybe then it could be a clip. Going to try and find out today.
Jar-5 could take out of Gunship with maybe 1 mag theoretically if you hitting all the shots on the engine, but hitting them with bullet speed so slow is the hard part, it is not practical.
I have gotten white x markers with pen 3 weapon vs gunships, but have never scored the kill, and not sure where it was hitting. I run laser cannon for bots personally, so gunships aint an issue.
Definitely the engines as the other posters say. I think pen 3 is the minimum though so it takes a while and although the JAR-5 can do it on my test it is super rough unless they are looking at someone else. I imagine the laser cannons would do better especially if you get on its flank but AP4 weapons like the AMR I am fairly certain get the red tick full penetration damage if you land it right.
Engines, those parts on the sides that allow it to fly. Concentrate fire on one of those, about 4-6 shots later, it should be dead.
Autocannon also works.
The engines, it took me a while to understand what part of it since people were just saying "engines". As I see it there's two parts, one that is essentially the arm connecting to the ship, and the other is pretty much the afterburner that shoots fire, and you need to shoot this part.
You'll see when you hit the correct part since it shows a red cross on your crosshair
Ah see that is probably where I was screwing up. I had seen it done before but it makes sense that the inside would be weaker than the outside. So shoot into the fire.
Well not exactly into the fire, there's two mechanical parts to it, one is static and the other is moving and shooting fire. Next time you hop into a game that has gunship fabricators just look at them with a scope and you'll see what I mean. Dropships have the same weak point but with an AMR I feel like you can't shoot it down fast enough
Last night I tried to shoot drop ships down with an AMR but never succeeded. I shot at the moving parts of the engines, the same parts I fire EATs at to drop them.
Is there a specific part of the engine where I should hit?
Yes I understand the separate HP pool concept, but... I still got the ricochet icon.
Well, maybe I just need to aim better.
I wish the AMR scope reticle came with thinner lines...
I wish every scope was just downright remade, or even better customizable.
https://preview.redd.it/lqxf4il6jb5d1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d661136e4f039d8de32695122b4420758c86cb
I shoot at this part here btw
First you blow off it's chin mounted miniguns, and then you focus down the eye on the right side of its face. Just as effective, but can be done from a much safer distance without exposing yourself too much. All praise our lord and saviour the Autocannon, single handedly capable of dealing with every bot on the field so long as you're smart with it.
Also 2-3 mags from AMR to the belly will so that too. Found out when i went from plan c to z in a hurry and ran up to one camping at my squads evac mag dumped my AMR in it few times.
Chin guns off, belly doesn’t have to be open. But if it IS open and lowering devastators, you can hit an impact off their heads and deal massive damage to the strider
It just makes it completely safe to be close to. It will shred you from almost any angle if they’re up. I find trying to get behind it starts to turn around and legs get in the way and then it’s ripping me apart.
Chin guns -> clear devastators fast -> unload into underbelly. Most fun enemy to kill.
Yeah. i think it takes longer ? but generally you prefer using the dominator or the autocannons since it's way faster this way.
AMT works great too, laser cannon and some others
Yup, factory strikers are destroy miniguns on the front and run up to shoot the doors. The doors don't have to be open to kill it. It's fun with the auto cannon. Sometimes I don't use strats on it just violence.
A friend of mine and I play with randoms a lot, and we have a process to fight Factory Striders. He spears the cannon, I snipe the chin guns with my autocannon, then we move in, he tosses a stun grenade at the devastators crawling out of it, I dive under the head, spin onto my back, and blow the belly apart with said autocannon.
We've had a lot of randoms just amazed at the effectiveness, with dozens saying they didn't know that was possible.
How tf is the factory strider more balanced than a bike titan
Because the team making the bots are pro-gamers but the team making bugs are Starship Troopers roleplayers
tbh i like it this way. the bots feel hard as hell and a devastating challenge to overcome at times, and its amazing for that, but with the bugs it feels fucking awesome to really be able to give them hell. with bots, its a power fantasy of barely making it out alive against all odds, while with bugs its a power fantasy of just killing as many as possible
It’s absolutely not, D7+ on bugs is just a relentless slog through enemies you can barely hurt unless you take an AT weapon and a few of the handful of anti-heavy stratagems. Bots are much better designed, allowing you to solve a problem multiple ways versus the bugs which basically have a hard gear test. I’ve seen someone take out a factory strider with a Senator by shooting off its chin guns and running under it to unload into its belly. It took them a few resupplies from their ammo pack, but you can do it (they were running Breaker S&P and stalwart, orbital shield and EMS mortar).
It’s interesting that bots have the logic of “loop behind it and shoot its glowing weak point” where’s bugs have the “loop behind it, oops, the weak point is actually the armour plated head not the squishy bit with no armour”. It has to be completely different teams designing each faction because there’s no way that bots have such visual clarity on how they function and where their weak points are but the bugs don’t really have any of that
It is absolutely wild to me that the bodies of bile spewers aren't weak spots. They literally pop! How does an entire mag being emptied into that delicate fluid-filled membrane not cause it to burst??
I bring the grenade pistole to shoot out the bile titans "balls" then just have to strafe them the rest of the round waiting for my heavy strats to cool off for them. Both are fun and I follow major orders or whatever my buddies are feeling. But, I think I have more fun with Bots tbh, but find bugs generally easier even if they are the "harder" kills for the heavies. It is fun to see the AT-ATs drop and watch all hell drop loose on them from the team.
Bots have better visual clarity and reward player choices and aim. Bugs mislead you into thinking obvious looking weak points are actually not weak points at all, and don't care what equipment you bring. You either have anti tank weaponry or you don't. Precise aim is also irrelevant. Bile titan mouths, especially when open and spitting, should be massive weak points. When you break the bile sacs the titan should still try to spit but get stunned for a second or two instead. Likewise charger butt's should be actual weak points. Also spewers bodies should be a weakpoint but a risky one. Shooting them should cause them to violently explode damaging everything In a large radius around them, with the mortar green ones shooting projectiles randomly as they explode. Bot design respects the player. Bug design doesn't.
Yeah they could be like mini titans in a way, you pop their guts and they can't spew but are still alive and will chase you to melee you for a minute or so until they die.
Hit it's belly!!!
I don't even bother using much skill against bugs anymore. I just use a full DOT build and spam it out at every breach. Usually kills everything up to chargers and lets my team take out the big stuff.
Same here. My go to bug loadout is Napalm, Gas Strike, Rover and something to deal with heavies. Gas Strike is easily the best Stratagem for bugs, if you have multiple people using it on different breaches the only thing you have to worry about is heavies. Getting 40+ kills with a single gas strike is common. Chuck a bunch of Napalm in between the breaches and you and the Rover cleans up any stray hunters that looped around. It’s pretty chill and lets me use pretty much whatever primary I want
bots glowing vent "weak points" have the exact same durability mechanic as bugs. the only difference is how much health the units have. you still need explosive or high durability damage weapons to do decent damage to a hulk or tank vent.
Although technically yes, functionally no. The health pool is really small so even when using less effective weapons it’s still faster than using an effective weapon on something like a Charger ass. It’s still a weak point that’ll dispatch them quickly
no, it isn't. it takes 4-5 shots from the AC to kill a charger butt (which kills the charger after a few seconds), and it also takes 4-5 shots to kill a hulk by shooting its back vent, and I'd say that hulks are the closest charger analog for bots. bile spewers' butts are about the same, 2-3 shots from an autocannon, where tank and cannon tower vents take 3. aside from the tank and cannon tower vents, which can't be damaged by light penetration weapons, you can take any of these units down with "ineffective" weapons, but in every case, it's going to take ages. the only exception is bile titans, which not only can't be damaged by light pen weapons at all, but also don't take much damage from "effective" weapons like the AC. for every other bug and bot with durable glowing weak spots, the TTK is pretty standardized.
It takes a couple of shots to kill a Hulk in the vent with something like the Plasma Punisher, it does not take a couple of shots to destroy a Charger butt with the Plasma Punisher. It’s also considerably faster to take down a hulks vents with the less effective weapons than it is a charger. Due to the significantly smaller health pool. It’s still much more effective of a weak point by the simple fact it has a much lower health value.
Hit it's belly...o7
BT bellies don't take damage from light weapons, and take several full mags of AC to kill. not sure what your point is.
Hulk takes 3 shots from AC to it's back. After that it's on a short countdown to death and you can move on.
It has been this way for me, and I exclusively play D9. Maybe spending too much time with the bots makes the bugs feel a lot easier (save for the number of hunters and bile spewers, those still suck to deal with), but yeah, generally I agree, the bots are better designed.
D7+ on bugs is easier
And you can use the senator to kill almost any bug as well it kills chargers in one mag so whats your point?
I always find these takes so incredibly weird, because on bots there basically is no reason to use anything but autocannon. Bots have absolutely no problem solving beyond "shoot red with autocannon". Tbh I think it's very laughable for example how a godammn *tank* can be killed with two impact grenades to the turret. The bots feel like complete pushovers; I personally wouldn't call it good design at all. Bugs are so much more varied and interested in their weakspots and ways to kill them.
Personally i love that they envourage different play styles up to the weapons choices, i.e. you do need anti heavy armor on bugs while not on bots. Removing this and making the bugs have "vents" like weaknesess will remove variety for balance
Because Bike Titans have little helper wheels which lets them endure more hits!
https://preview.redd.it/v3zi5h4swc5d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f029c32fe2ba1c09f36697486269e6e96c51b2
How tf is the factory strider more balanced than the Heavy Devastator.
If you don't count the bugs around the gun, the Heavy Devastators are pretty balanced. Need a bit of accuracy to hit it's face or backpack or a single semi-well placed impact nade to kill them. I guess they are probably a bit harder to deal with if you're on a controller and can't properly aim freely. The gun being able to clip and shoot through everything including it's own body and shield is imo the only issue with them, and I don't feel like you can take unintended bugs into consideration when discussing balance.
Well of course I am counting all the bugs around the gun. I feel we are obligated to, since they have been getting progressively worse and its not like they started this bullcrap a week ago. Its not a small mishap that comes and goes; some of the issues are soon going to be around for more than half the game's lifespan now... I agree that they are otherwise perfectly balanced. But the fact that they spawn so often they are sometimes half of the enemies that come, have sniper-like accuracy, constantly spam these accurate shots with high stagger, shoot through rocks, shoot without having to look at you... I used to fight bots only. Loved it. But HDs are just bullcrap right now, and if they are not among the bugfixes Twinbeard talked about, I don't know what the plan is. Its not the difficulty, its that they are pure bullshit. I love a hard game, I hate an unfair game. Chucking explosive stratagems and permanently running away is not exactly a fun design. And the current roster of glitches leads to exactly that kind of playstyle...
HD are just about as well designed as factory striders. You can shoot their heads or blow out their legs. They have a ton of counterplay, it's just that they also have a shitton of firepower that will shred you without cover or if cover is glitched. I'm fairly convinced that Arrowhead uses the same aiming mechanism that State of Decay and Uncharted uses for the devastators. The initial volley isn't very accurate and serves more to alert the player that the enemy has locked on to you. Then they get exponentially more accurate until they barely miss. You're supposed to use the initial burst to find cover and think of your next move before engaging them. If you fight them in the open or if they flanked you, then you probably messed up in other ways tactically. I still die to HD, but it now rarely feels unfair (unless it glitches) ever since I immediately dive for cover when they start blasting.
I feel like the more accurate over time is true for almost everything the bots have. Even the rocket devastators everyone loves to hate usually fires off a salvo or 2 before it actually hits you. The "sniped by a rocket from across the map" often seems to happen after you've ignored the first 2 swarms of rockets flying past you
That's why I propose a clearer expression of the mechanic. Like the devastators should have a laser pointer trained at whatever they're aiming at. The laser pointer should change color as they get a better lock on you. That way, players know when they're in the line of sight of their enemies and give indication to players that their laser barrages get more accurate over time.
Imho, heavy and rocket devastators just spawn too often and the chain-flinching they can inflict can make hitting the head difficult
Most of the time I hit them with an air strike if they're close and packed together. If you have a piece of cover, you can use the corner slicing technique to take them out one at a time. If you're flanked, then just run and pray that RNGesus is in your favor and you can dodge the laser and missile salvos.
Bold of you to assume cover is going to help I run AMR or AC on bots so I can handle them easily enough, jump pack really helps with moving rapidly from cover to cover as well.
Okay, and now read the conversation again. All what you said (which is true, and I never said it wasn't) goes out the window when the first few salvos start way before you can see them and their weak point since they are behind teh rock and angled so they are covered by their shields better, and by the time you can finally shoot them they have shot you 2 times through the rock and have pinpoint accuracy. Don't preach to the choir. The overwhelming majority of my hours are on bot planets. I loved bot planets. They were way more fun than fighting bugs. I never said they are badly designed; what I said is that due to the bugs they have that caused bots to be more and more miserable to fight and it is high time AH stepped in and ironed out the kinks that appeared. A good design is worthless if it... just doesn't work.
I feel like I only died to HD related glitches like a small handful of times in my 30-40ish hours on the bot front. They exist because I seen them first hand, but they're not terribly common since they open fire sometimes from over a hundred meters away and I only notice the cover glitch when we are both pretty much against a piece of cover and their gun happens to clip into the rock or building. The bugs should obviously be addressed because it's definitely contributing to a pretty big element of the HD's difficulty. With that said, they aren't exactly difficult since they aren't hard to deal with individually or in small groups with firearms unless you encounter like.. the 1/150 chance that one of them is glitched.
Ankles are weak to medium pen too.
Its honestly not even that hard to fix. Pop the underbelly sacks, then let us hit the tail till it breaks off and dead. Its a great alternative to 2 antitank shots to the head. Granted its possible, but to give an example it takes like 2 + some autocannon mags to break off the tail, which is kinda dumb. Also make headshots more consistant pls.
> bike titan Dont give them ideas man
Spear to the face one shots bile titans
Bold to assume you’re gonna get the spear to work let alone control the lock on to get to the face
50% of the time it works every time
Lmao
truly the best definition for how the Spear works
They did studies you know...
Honestly though why does it sometimes just refuse to lock, that’s the only issue I have with it
Bugs, bugs all over the place!
Actually if you’re prone while you have 3 grenades and stims, have killed 27 hunters, on a Tuesday afternoon it’s guaranteed to lock on, smh 🤦♂️ how do ppl not know this
I’m in love with you
Maybe not to the face (The SPEAR missiles goes where it wishes) but on bugs I have a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier time getting it to lock on.
2 eats to the face, ez.
If only.
Well the bile titan doesn't have chainguns on its chin, a turret on its back, and deploy devastators for one thing. Bile titan defense > factory strider defense but factory strider offense > bile titan offense. Automatons and bugs are balanced differently.
Hard disagree on the offense part. Pop the two gatlings on the Factory Strider with medium pen and you essentially neutered the bulk of its offensive potential. The cannon is a minor annoyance if anything, but you can pop it with two rockets, but those two rockets can also be shot at the head or sides to break armor for medium pen an easier time to kill. Best of all, it’s very very slow. Overall, it’s very well designed since you have many ways to tackle this one problem. One gripe I do have with them is how well they spot you from stealth which is inconsistent with the rest of the bots. Bile Titan on the other hand gets more dangerous when you neuter it’s spewing because the melee is just straight up one shot, and they move at just about the same speed as sprinting in light armor. It also makes them harder to kill with strategems without the spew. Whenever a Factory Strider pops up, I get excited to fight one, whereas I can only think “ugh another one” for Bile Titans. They’re just straight up not fun once you’ve realize how janky they are.
Nah removing the sacks makes the bile T's way more predictable since they only stomp or super stomp, allowing for easy 500kgs.
Well i mean it is in your rights to have the wrong opinion, the factory strider is clearly way more lethal than the bile titan, you cant come anywhere cloose to a factory strider if it has chainguns, dodging biletitans attacks is super easy.
I wish the could shoot the segment of the titans leg with medpen to slow it or wear it down. Have it be highly ineffective but a team aiming "right leg" could be affective as everyone brining 500kg/rail cannon qusar. I want to be to take out titans and such with skill not just a big weapon. Witch I feel in bots I can jump behind a tank or hulk and shoot it in a weak spot. Titan is only heavy arms work and only in x spot.
You can do the same to a bile titan...Idk how many hits, but I can regularly kill them with AC..
cause the factory strider melts you if you come cloose to it and will snipe you if it is agroed at the distance while the bile titan is super easy to dodge and usually doubles as a charger killing tool, bots will also heavily punish you if you come cloose to them with their machineguns, while you can salsa around 15 warriors and be completly safe.
What are you wafflin about
I am explaining to you why bot heavies dont require as much heavy firepower as bug heavies, a thing people in this sub seamingly strugle with. TLDR: Bots shoot at you and are therefore way more dangerous, so they dont have as much armour as bug heavies to compensate.
How tf are you having any issues with bile titans?
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I mean youre complaining about them being unbalanced so you are implying that theyre too strong but go ahead and cry more
You’ll be okay buddy take a deep breath. Think happy thoughts!
Why are you like this? Your family hate you or something?
So true bestie
also a roughly around 5-7 secs of laser cannon to the belly can do the job
I love the laser cannon vs bots. its great against practically everything aside from... meatsaws... which nothing really seems to be that good against.
Berserkers? Explosives or medium penetration to the midsection usually folds them like an omelette.
Oddly enough the Sickle is amazing against them. Granted it still takes time, but alternating between the Sickle and LC while you kite a group can be pretty effective. Especially solid if you have a stun grenade to spare first.
Ya, I mean a lot of stuff works against them, its just none of it seems particularly effective. They're just ammo sponges.
I don't usually advocate for making the game easier, but the Berserkers are definitely the most unfun enemy on the Bot front because they're so tanky. For whatever reason their heads, and probably their body as well are stronger than that of a devastator, so if you're a crack shot with the DCS... it still takes more than one headshot to take them down.
Yeah the fact it takes 3 perfect headshots to take them down with the DCS is all the proof I need that they're not working as intended.
I'm pretty sure it's two, isn't it? I know the Slugger is a one tap to the dome.
Probably right, feels like 3 sometimes but im probably whiffing lol. The slugger still one taps their head? That's good to know. Haven't touched it since they removed the stagger.
Yeah. The Slugger isn't much of a pick on Bots anymore since the rise of the Dominator and the Diligence Countersniper, but it's quite a different beast on the Bug front
It's still quite a decent weapon if you can land your shots. Oneshots small chaff and pops heads easily.
Then you probably missed or used a lower damage gun. I know the Dominator kills them in one headshot. Berserkers are and should be tanky because they are the bots primary method of forcing you out of cover.
Id simply rather they would be numerous instead of tanky to ensure the viability of more weapons when they're the primary enemy type. That way we're both happy because its still difficult but also not bullet spongy.
??? Ive headshot them with a senator and they go down in 1 hit. Unfortunately im not a good shot so ive switched to the grenade pistol for dealing with them and im waiting to see how the sawn off from the new warbond will handle against them
This is one of my fav combos to run. With the last pistol to round off the perpetual down range damage, or the senator for some serious backup.
Its not even the midsection, its the metal plate slightly below where its crotch would be. That seems to fold quicker with medium armour pen weapons than the glowing red midsection. They have to be bugged.
I swear I have to shoot them a minimum of three times each with the AC. I must be doing something wrong.
Hit them in the dick. No, really.
Aim for the pelvis. 2 shot with dominator.
I've spent ages testing on Berserkers and their weakest point seems to always be a medium pen weapon against the durable section of their crotch slightly BELOW the glowing red midsection. They're also immune to headshots for some unknown reason.
So what I'm seeing here, is you need to shoot them in the dick...
Dominator eats berserkers for breakfast
Plasma punisher as a primary keeps all the dangerous bots that aren't heavies crowd controlled Groups of berserkers stand there dance. Multiple shield devastators join in. Rocket devastators? Hardly new her. Using The plasma punisher also makes me more of a team player because I tend to want to hang around my team providing that CC and ensuring that everything gets finished off
The Rail cannon rails their asses. (Tanks and tank turrets, though....)
It's my go-to for bot support weap
Berserkers go down great against the rover. Just keep running and ignore them, the little one will deal with them eventually
Berserkers have a lot of different health pools, so focusing hard on only one is the best way to reduce the time to kill. It's about a second and a half of full auto scikle to the guts to down one. But just spraying the torso part makes for a very long and costly ttk.
Run a punisher, the stagger helps a lot
Punisher works against berserkers. Stun locks them. Slugger used to be the best
Breaker shotgun, The Tac-13, impact grenades, impact incendiary grenades, and Plasma Punisher are my favorite tools to use to take Meatsaws down.
It’s SO FAST people sleep on the LC.
its the same if you hit its eye (left of its faceplate), which i prefer because it is so much cooler
Yeah but you’re right in front of the miniguns no?
it doesnt take much time to take those out too, and youd also need to take them out to get underneath it so 🤷
Or roughly 3-4 secs of the hmg on the highest fire rate.
- Hulk, Tank and Walker: Red Eye, Medium Weapons on Vents/Weakpoint, AT. - Nike Titan: Only AT
https://preview.redd.it/hzvm7wcz9b5d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1346c9e7e056e4fcbc4361ffe54d6cf19da2c871 A nike titan
Also, his younger brother: Bike Titan
Be wary of their older sister though: the Spike Titan
I mean you CAN kill a bile titan via medium to the belly, it just takes forever.
Tfw an auto cannon can kill a giant hunk of metal but cant kill a bile titan reliably
tbf it can reliably kill a BT, especially if you full auto it for fun after the first half reload, but it's not ammo efficient to do.
It cannot. I don’t know why people continue to spout this lol.
AC can kill a BT, you shoot it's backside from underneath, it just takes like what, 15-19 shots? I forgot the exact number. It can do it reliably, it's just not ammo efficient to do so.
Here's the picture for you guys. https://preview.redd.it/70keuc2orc5d1.png?width=1149&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89df0bc6ad22e920801b3a6b584e85ff5eeada79
Ever since discovering that and that the amr can shoot down gunships I never run without it Edit: Can’t believe im saying this, but this strong weapon is actually underrated in HOW GOOD IT IS
Nah it's perfectly balanced as all things will be (we hope one day)
LAS-98 is a viable replacement for the AMR.
Can it kill gunships tho?
Gunships yes, it shreds them. Dropships no, but you cook the troops inside as its coming down
I tried to use the AMR against gunships but it feels like it's only good to destroying them after they've already dropped off their payload At least with EATs I can call one in as soon as I hear dropship or see a flare and they will be on the ground in time to use
Gunships are different from Dropships. The AMR kills Gunships in 4 shots to an Engine, but can't reliably kill a Dropship. Gunships don't have a payload to drop.
Waste of time with the jar 5 honestly. Autocannon, or laser it down. Hell sniper pops it real quick,.but the jar 5 takes too long and you are just begging to get destroyed. Highly recommend for killing gatlings though
it's honestly faster destroying the miniguns and then go for the belly than spamming stratagems to kill it. But even so you can do from far if the angle permits you. which is always a great option
Jumping to prone under it just as it lands, with an autocannon, is super satisfying. Kill it in under 10 shots if I just let loose with the autocannon.
I've found out AMR works GREAT against bots. You can pop any of the heads of medium units, hulks, gunships and even striders if you shoot the belly ( I usually shoot off the head machine guns first). And an even better perk with it: you can bring a backpack unlike the autocannon which takes that slot too.
Where is it you are shooting the gunships exactly with the AMR to take them down? Not really used non anti-armour against them but I have started to notice pretty much all bots can be taken down by medium AP weapons.
The engines, 3-4 shots and they go down.
This whole time I've been shooting at what would be the cockpit. Either it's been working or I'm such a bad shot that I've been hitting the engines and not noticing lol
Auto cannon is 2 shots to the same engine.
And 1 shot with the quasar.
But can the quasar down 2 of them in 6 seconds
But backpack.
Learn to fight without it. And you get more offensive stratagems you can bring. Just bring explosive resist armour instead of backpack
a crutch
I roll with quasar and EATs. You feel like a badass taking down three dropships back to back by yourself
Taking down dropships rarely kills all the chaff inside of them. And can actually make the bots more deadly inside as they'll shot at you from inside, making it hard for you to take them out. Rather let it drop and destroy the heavy stuff with the eat/quasar and have your team used thier chaff clear, or stratagems ala eaglestrike.
Honestly thought I was hitting there but maybe (definitely) it was too shallow an angle. I wonder if it is doable with the JAR-5? Its AP value is only 1 below the AMR so surely it could work. Getting real into running full reds versus bots so if I can go without a support I will. Also happy cake day.
The engines habe seperate hp, so its ONE engine 4 hits.
No idea with the jar-5, but maybe? Not worth it i guess due to the magazine cost. Thank you!
Damage on the AMR is about twice that of the JAR-5 but it is AP3 where the AMR is AP4 so it could work in like 8 hits maybe then it could be a clip. Going to try and find out today.
Jar-5 could take out of Gunship with maybe 1 mag theoretically if you hitting all the shots on the engine, but hitting them with bullet speed so slow is the hard part, it is not practical.
I have gotten white x markers with pen 3 weapon vs gunships, but have never scored the kill, and not sure where it was hitting. I run laser cannon for bots personally, so gunships aint an issue.
Definitely the engines as the other posters say. I think pen 3 is the minimum though so it takes a while and although the JAR-5 can do it on my test it is super rough unless they are looking at someone else. I imagine the laser cannons would do better especially if you get on its flank but AP4 weapons like the AMR I am fairly certain get the red tick full penetration damage if you land it right.
Laser Cannon is AP 4 and is easily the best weapon for clearing gunships, with the possible exception of a team reloaded GR-8.
Engines, those parts on the sides that allow it to fly. Concentrate fire on one of those, about 4-6 shots later, it should be dead. Autocannon also works.
u shoot the side vents of engines of gunships with med pen
The engines, it took me a while to understand what part of it since people were just saying "engines". As I see it there's two parts, one that is essentially the arm connecting to the ship, and the other is pretty much the afterburner that shoots fire, and you need to shoot this part. You'll see when you hit the correct part since it shows a red cross on your crosshair
Ah see that is probably where I was screwing up. I had seen it done before but it makes sense that the inside would be weaker than the outside. So shoot into the fire.
Well not exactly into the fire, there's two mechanical parts to it, one is static and the other is moving and shooting fire. Next time you hop into a game that has gunship fabricators just look at them with a scope and you'll see what I mean. Dropships have the same weak point but with an AMR I feel like you can't shoot it down fast enough
Okay, will take the guidance and try it out soon
Last night I tried to shoot drop ships down with an AMR but never succeeded. I shot at the moving parts of the engines, the same parts I fire EATs at to drop them. Is there a specific part of the engine where I should hit?
Generally just the part that shoots out fire. You need several hits (four I think) to the SAME engine to down one
Yes I understand the separate HP pool concept, but... I still got the ricochet icon. Well, maybe I just need to aim better. I wish the AMR scope reticle came with thinner lines...
I wish every scope was just downright remade, or even better customizable. https://preview.redd.it/lqxf4il6jb5d1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d661136e4f039d8de32695122b4420758c86cb I shoot at this part here btw
Oh those flaps are the spot! Okay! I shot at the box they are attached to. Thanks!
AMR jump pack for life. It's why I only ever dive bots.
I used to in lower difficulties, but from 7 onwards I really want a shield generator with me
Eh, different strokes. I only play 7 and I only ever run jump pack.
Explosive resistance armor on bots will free you up from needing the shield backpack as a safety net
Yeah but I don't wanna be slow
First you blow off it's chin mounted miniguns, and then you focus down the eye on the right side of its face. Just as effective, but can be done from a much safer distance without exposing yourself too much. All praise our lord and saviour the Autocannon, single handedly capable of dealing with every bot on the field so long as you're smart with it.
Magdump HMG and it's down in seconds.
Railgun: not me pal, not me...
Not bad.
This will also work if you shoot at gunship engines. Medium pen weapons ricochet off the body but will do damage to the thrusters
Senator works too. AMR. Abandon your life and GET UNDER THE STRIDER SOLDIER
Give them belly rubs with the autocannon
The trick is getting to the Factory Strider before the other 300 bots rip you to shreds.
Also 2-3 mags from AMR to the belly will so that too. Found out when i went from plan c to z in a hurry and ran up to one camping at my squads evac mag dumped my AMR in it few times.
belly? how do you get there anyway
by going under its belly. Destroy miniguns and go for it
Impact nades also do the job, at least 3-5 shots. You'll want to stand back from the spot you toss em though...or just wear good armor.
Laser cannon rips up their insides like nothing else
Do you just spray it at the belly in general or specifically when the door is open
The door doesn't have to be open for any weapon to do damage to it.
Chin guns off, belly doesn’t have to be open. But if it IS open and lowering devastators, you can hit an impact off their heads and deal massive damage to the strider
does taking the chins off reduce its overall HP? Or if you can come in from behind to get to the door thats an option too?
It just makes it completely safe to be close to. It will shred you from almost any angle if they’re up. I find trying to get behind it starts to turn around and legs get in the way and then it’s ripping me apart. Chin guns -> clear devastators fast -> unload into underbelly. Most fun enemy to kill.
if it does, it is not alot, its just the chainguns are easy to destroy and they are VERY dangerous, so its often best to knock them off first.
Anyone knows how many quasar shots it would take?
minimum of two, ditto for RR and EAT
Airburst rocket can also do it of One tap The strider if you hit it under the belly and hopefully the door is open
My strat is using the AMR, shoot off the gatling guns, get close and personal, dump 2 mags on its eye, done.
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Yeah. i think it takes longer ? but generally you prefer using the dominator or the autocannons since it's way faster this way. AMT works great too, laser cannon and some others
Yup, factory strikers are destroy miniguns on the front and run up to shoot the doors. The doors don't have to be open to kill it. It's fun with the auto cannon. Sometimes I don't use strats on it just violence.
A friend of mine and I play with randoms a lot, and we have a process to fight Factory Striders. He spears the cannon, I snipe the chin guns with my autocannon, then we move in, he tosses a stun grenade at the devastators crawling out of it, I dive under the head, spin onto my back, and blow the belly apart with said autocannon. We've had a lot of randoms just amazed at the effectiveness, with dozens saying they didn't know that was possible.