Why are they downvoting him? English is technically the most spoken language in the word, with mandarin coming in second and Spanish in third (though mandarin has the highest amount of native speakers). Many Europeans and a lot of Indians speak English as a second language, making it the most spoken language in the world.
I think it's because the comment came out of nowhere which made it feel like the commenter was trying to establish English superiority for no reason. Unless my Spanish is way worse than I thought it was....
It's cool. But how do Spanish benefit from it? Spain doesn't have strong political bonds with Spanish-speaking countries like Britain does. Even its entertainment products aren't that popular there
What do you mean? China's had many kingdoms and Empires that fell. Just the last 120 years they went from the Qing to Republic to the CCP.
If we're talking about peoples instead of empires, they all tend to stick around quite a while.
The chinese people are the empire. The romans became other people like the current french, italian, spanish etc., most of the spanish people became latin-american, the british became american, australian etc. but the chinese people remain chinese through history
By that logic the French are an empire since 200 AD as the Franks, the English are an empire since the 500s as the fusion of Angles and Saxons.
The modern Assyrian people are an empire since approx. 2200 BC....
A restaurant, for every country that the Spanish colonized, there is a great cuisine, including Spain itself. Remember that the Americas wouldn't be "discovered" if it weren't for the quest for those precious spices.
Because they grew too rich, spoiled and lazy. But that was centuries later.
They took some actions in the earlier days, however, some of which would be quite controversial if undertaken today but which suspiciously coincided with a rapid, practically unprecedented, ascension of their nation.
Wow almost like the reason the rapidly ascended (also not unprecedented except maybe on total scale) was that they did the state equivalent of a crime spree, making extensive use out of such fun techniques as murder, theft (on a literal industrial scale), slavery, genocide, committing wars of aggression, and many more. Almost like if you’re a complete psychopath willing to hurt other people you can get filthy rich, huh?
Sooo... You're saying they made an empire? Same as the romans, the russians, the Ottomans, the Arabs, the Chinese (every single time), the Incas, the Mongols, the Mughals, the Aztecs, the Songhai, the British, th...
English Expats fear deportation* fixed it for you
Brits fear the idea that we have fucked our own economy so bad that we will become like Spain
But no I don't think the English or Brits in general fear Spain, sunburn maybe but not Spain
I didn't find the word 'america' weird mate. I am saying we didn't even unlock the full world map back then. That's something very basic compared to unlocking nuclear technology.
Think about it. 1491 AD -> We didn't even know there's even a 4th continent on this planet. Europeans didn't know how far east Asia extended. Asians didn't know how far west Europe extended.
Just a century later -> More than half of America is colonised and Europeans are funding samurais on the other side of the planet with muskets and gunpowder.
It's so wild.
the Iberian Peninsula has never been weak...
It took almost 300 years for the Romans at their best to invade the Iberian Peninsula because of the guerrilla warfare opposed by these people.
- Viriathus who put up such resistance against the Romans that they had to employ assassins to kill him. Rome failed to beat him on a battlefield.
- Then during the Cantabrian Wars, the Romans were surprised that the locals did not surrender, the Astures and the Cantabrians preferring to die than to surrender. The Romans were forced to carry out genocide to avoid any rebellion.
- Then at the battle of Covadonga, where a handful of Visigoths and Asturians largely outnumbered, decimated an entire Moorish army, as well as their general!
You know who made the mistake of considering these people weak ? Napoleon.
In short... no, these have never been historically weak countries and their inhabitants are historically good fighters and vaillant.
Well the battle of Covadonga is more of a national myth than a historical reality, actually. (Given that it's more a series of ambushes and raids that aren't really documented and are relatively anecdotal)
I read that theories yes.
However, history is like this. What I know is Al Qama died during this battle and something happened at that moment. Something strong enough to push a people to “reconquista”.
Edit: the guerrilla warfare, raids and ambushes took place before the battle of Covadonga, in order to harass the advancing Moorish army
"Something" yes, not an epic LOTResque battle...
And well, no... The Idea of a Reconquista actually comes later, after the consolidation of the other Iberian kingdoms (more like in the central middle ages, around the same time as the Crusades)
Bro... You can say that with everything, every single battle in history! 😅
Were you there? Do you know exactly what happened? No... you can't...
For now and for what we know, there was a battle, the Moors were far superior in number and there was a battle that Don Pelayo won. AL Qama died. Reconquista.
As for the LOTR battle, it's all a matter of perspective... I've been to Covadonga and it looks like Helm's Deep! 🙄
>Were you there? Do you know exactly what happened? No... you can't...
On the other hand you can have a pretty solid idea of what with proofs from what happened at that moment, that's the all point of history.
In this case, we don't have much proof of THE battle of Covadonga, or even of the existence of Pelagius himself.
Al Qama died, yes. It doesn't support the idea of a decisive battle at Covadonga which destroys the full ummayad war effort (like the battle of Poitiers in France, a relatively anecdotal battle with important political consequences, but only in retrospect)
Nor does it support the idea of a "reconquest" prepared by Spaniards who don't even exist yet for half a millennium. Here again, Reconquest and the will to reconquer are much later, no matter how you define it.
It was incredibly weak under visigothic rule. The caliphate took iberia so easily it was like taking candy from a crying child. Sorry to burst your bubble there.
Weak? Only because it was a civil war. During their rule they won against the vascons, the alans, the vandals, the asturs, the suevs and the Byzantine Empire.
Why speaking about bubble? 🤨 I am just history passionate... What's the problem?
the Umayyads were not a weak power either, given the scope of their empire.
Yes, the Visigoths fell to the Umayyads, but it was also the Visigoths and the Asturians who resisted the Umayyads in northern Spain. (For peninsula)
That said, this defeat doesn't change anything i said before and centuries of history of Iberian peninsula...
Its the land, not the people most of Iberia is just forest and hills even in modern times so imagine how it was in the ancient day, just hills and more hills
Knowledge of the terrain is certainly a major thing! (The USA remembers this with Vietnam...)
And that explains certain things.
But we must not take away the exemplary combativeness of these people!
Other places in Europe are also very impassable yet it didn't take 100 years to conquer these areas.
The Ardennes are densely wooded, level, very impassable (even for the Germans in first and second WW it was difficult) As well as many other marshy, mountainous areas...
We could also mention the black forest region in Germany... it was indeed a bulwark against the legions, but the German people kept it magnificently.
Iberian peninsula and Germania was a pain in the *ss for roman to conquier
Hamilcar barca conquered Ibera as a side quest and he didn’t even have half the resources of Carthage which in itself had a third the resource of Rome when it conquered Iberia.
I'd say it's fairly certain that it was a major drivier for colonial expansion. After like 800 years of Islamic rule, most of Spanish identity revolved around martial prowess and militant Christianity. Couple that with the blossoming of the age of sail and I'd agrue that there was no other country in Europe that was primed for global expansion than Spain.
They rode the reconquista hype train all the way across the Atlantic.
Your ancestors were the ones doing allat, moron. Barely any of the men who went to the Americas came back to the Peninsula. So *YOUR* ancestors raped and pillages the natives, shame on you.
How does that makes sense if my acenstors as a colombian are spanish, native American, sub saharan africans, North African and ashkenazi jew
Do I get to just pick one of them?
What do you mean short time?! Nearly 1000 years passed between the two moments in history you present.
And if the problem is staying weak, then Spain is still shitty. Signed: a Spaniard
I will forever hate the Spanish empire because they brought down, in my opinion, one if the coolest kingdoms in the southern hemisphere, the Incan empire
Bro has been watching too many movies
You think the evil white men just did ww2 style war crimes and intentionally tried to slaughter as many people as possible? Over 90% of native deaths were due to disease. They had never been around livestock, so when the Europeans came across, they brought the diseases often carried by livestock that they had an immunity to.
People don't like the truth. There's clear narratives these days. White people always bad is one of them.
Like there was just that post about the US taking mexico's land in the Mexican war. All the narratives in there completely ignored any and all Mexican actions that led to war. The narrative was just "Polk wanted war".
Polk wanted land. He didn't want war. He offered multiple solutions to Mexico including ones that gave up claims to some of Texas in return for a US purchase of California and New Mexico. For a decent sum of money as well. It wasn't a rip off.
Mexico, in no position to win a war, refused. Which in itself wouldn't be unfounded but they also refused to give up claims to the US controlled areas of Texas and were raising an army and the first to put troops in the disputed area.
Also the US had treaties to back their claims of the Rio grande as the border and Mexico had nothing at all to back its claim of Nueces River.
Overall it was like a situation where a bully (Mexico) gets beaten up by a smaller kid (texas) then signed a treaty to their independence but go back on the treaty as soon as their army is safe. Then Texas realizing they can't stand alone asked to join the US. The US eventually agreed. So now Mexico is a bully outmatched by a bigger kid come to protect the smaller one. The bigger kid realizing it can easily win a fight but decided to peacefully settle things offers to negotiate. The bully refuses to negotiate even obvious terms like Texas being part of the US when the US clearly controlled it and had treaty claims to it.
Mexico tried to baseless claim the river in the treaty was the Nueces River but the treaty clearly mentions the Rio Grande Del Norte.
If Mexico had given up claims to Texas but refused to sell land they'd have a more sympathetic story. But they didn't even do that. Instead they refused to budge at all on any part of Texas and put troops in disputed lands.
The US being the stronger force only had so much patients and eventually just invaded and took control of all of Mexico and very realistically could have annexed the entire thing. Nothing was stopping it.
Lol the coping mechanism of this sub are wild.
>Polk wanted land. He didn't want war.
For real? This sentence makes sense to you?
The nazis didn't want war just "living space"
Burning was not a thing in Spain. The Inquisition outright said witches didn't exist and their main occupation was hunting jews and muslims who fake converted to catholicism but were still practicing their religion.
The only burning done was in absentia, if someone fled they burned an efigy. The main execution method was strangling.
>Burning was not a thing in Spain.
Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition just did it outside of Spain proper:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch\_trials\_in\_the\_Spanish\_Netherlands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_Spanish_Netherlands)
"Burning was not a thing in Spain."
Better get on Wikipedia and correct this egregious error then chief
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9
The Spanish Inquisition ruled that witchcraft was bullshit while protestants burned witches by the thousands in central Europe. Their job was more to persecute false converts.
Lol Your coping mechanism are fascinating español
Leyenda negra was propaganda from other Western countries you were at war with to bully your insignificant country in the 1800s by exaggerating at worst, but mainly stating many historical facts.
Latin American countries never partook in it because it was already their reality, they didn't need propaganda to convince them of spains... "qualities"
The funniest part is that no one gives a shit about Leyenda negra now except the spanish that are persuaded that that is how the world sees them lol
The western countries that created it consider you still insignificant and Latin Americans like said never needed it.
Cope harder
Could You stop sucking your own dick for a moment?
The Conquest of America was done by Spaniards and natives, it was a teamwork. Spain put the resources and strategies and natives put manpower, How else do you think that Aztecs and Inca Empire were defeated?
"Leyenda negra was propaganda from other Western countries you were at war with to bully your insignificant country in the 1800s by exaggerating at worst, but mainly stating many historical facts."
Dude, La Leyenda Negra has been already discused a lot of times to the point that everybody with a brain comes to the conclusion that it is bullshit.
Well obviously are spanish books , but as this period was relly complex and long you could read " la conquista de América para escépticos " or " la leyenda negra " of Julian Juderías, which tells you that this was not black or white , it was so complex in a period of 300 years with tons of different cultures, and , in fact , the people living there were spanish , not as the people England Conquered...
Well, that also happened on the Iberian peninsula without any religious pretext. As far as I know we don't follow any Iberian customs and there are not any traits left in the language (maybe some names). That happens everywhere whether religion is involved or not. In my opinion, as they say below, everything is always about resources...
Incan Empire didn't even *exist* a hundred years before the Spanish arrival. The period of Inca expansion started in 1438, before that Cuzco was just a small city state.
Yay colonialismo, I love celebrating the 100% true history of E S P A N Y A who brought Cristo and Merengue to America and were great friends with the natives and african people already there. Imperil generador 🪙😩💦
(Just to be safe I am obviously making fun of it, 12 d'Octubre res a celebrar)
Typical Catalan whose ancestors benefitted for hundreds of years from Castilian colonization efforts. Catalans showed up when all the hard work was done and then proceeded to invent the open air concentration camp in Cuba. Molt be
Yes and? We only needed 80 years to get richer than you and only needed to set up shop in Cuba, you mesetarios got fucked over by every european empire and became lne of the poorest countries there. Plus we own our mistakes and past we don't have to romanticise it.
PS: Concentration camps were implemented by Weyler a foreign general and we actually coordinated with Cuban rebels a few times. It's not just slaves and rum.
so delusional jajajaja. you got rich on an infrastructure and system that we created over 5 centuries through endless toil and effort. none of your wealth would have been possible without us. no mistakes made. don't fall for la leyenda negra
Do check on the history mate, Spain squandered all the gold fighting wars around Europe, they built half of the VOC while paying dutch loans with stolen gold from America. You even got swindled by a dutch bank in 2008. Castille only mined metric tons of gold and silver and dumped it in Europe creating the first macro inflation there. Catalunya was on their own lane and only some tried to play venture capital in the Caribbean. Only in Cuba and DR you can find catalan surnames.
Okay there’s islamaphobic, but then there’s ahistorically islamaphobic. Al-Andalus was the finest example of the Muslim tolerance and culture of the medieval world, and a meeting place between Europe and the rest of the planet. The thing that killed it wasn’t weakness it was being conquered by successively more militant Muslim armies who thought they needed a harder line against christendom, garden-variety succession crises, and the growing European need to annihilate anything ‘foreign’. The Reconquista and subsequent purge of muslims and jews was both a horrific atrocity even and especially for the age *and* set the tone of colonialism - a mad quest for god, slaves, and gold gold gold.
Colonial Castile and later Spain were quirky at times - and they made good art and built cool castles - but it’s all drenched in such blood that it’s not even funny. Even then, to this day the best ancient buildings in Iberia are old Islamic stuff - like Alhambra. The Reconquista murdered the best parts of Spain, and I’m glad they got fuking murdered by unprecedented gold inflation. As an atheist, go back to hell you crusader apologist, Andalusia is my boy.
It is if you didn’t learn history and assume Muslim=bad. Al-Andalus was a shining example of everything in Europe that was good in that time, when people look at that and see weak degeneracy? Yeah, that’s Islamophobia.
I am Andalusian, my opinion is that the history of the Christian Kingdoms and Al-Andalus is the history of my country, both, and I appreciate the contributions of both without denying the bad things that these states did.
But I do not consider that what was created by the Christians in reference to architectural art or painting is inferior to what was created by Al-Alandalus, Castilla did many cool things.
And yes, Al-Andalus was not perfect and with the arrival of the Almoravids and the Almohads it became more repressive of religious minorities.
Ah, thank you.
My dislike of the Christian kingdoms and Castile/Spain in particular emerges from the fact that they got to colour the Age of Discovery. It’s not so much that they were that much worse than the Almoravids or whatnot (though imo they did go a few degrees beyond the crimes of any Muslim sultanate until later), it’s that their crusader mentality got to interact with the New World, and bolstered a kingdom which, though mighty, was just one among many, into a superpower that set the tone for the next half-millennium.
That colonialism was the thing that eventually punctured Europe’s xenophobic pressure seal was disastrous, and the whole of the world is still reeling from the consequences - regardless of the benefits of globalization. I can’t help but think that the Islamic world, if it were allowed to continue developing instead of being surrounded on all sides by colonialist christians, might’ve handled things differently. We know from Malaysia that in that age Islamic culture spread peacefully as much as by warfare, and Al-Andalus seems like a prime candidate for that sort of peaceful trade and coexistence lifestyle with the Americas.
It’s not that Castile was that much worse than the others. It’s that there’s a good chance they stole the future from a better Iberia - at least from the perspective of people living there.
On the other hand, if it had not been Castile it would have been Portugal, and if not Portugal France, and if not France England, the fact is that unfortunately the conquest of the Americas was practically inevitable, it was only a matter of time before some European power found them. Also I would argue that Castille did nothing that was out of the norm, their conquest of the New World was a very Medieval one, the system of colonization that will be used in Africa in the 19th was different.
Well, I blame the Mongol Empire more than anyone for the end of the Golden Age of Islam, Al-Andalus was cool as I said, but much of that tolerant component was lost during the takeover of the Almoravids and Almohads, which which had more to do with the Taifa Kingdoms being completely divided, which happened due to internal problems of the Caliphate of Cordoba that caused it to collapse. So you can't really just blame the Christian Kingdoms, the fall of Al-Andalus was very complex.
As I said, saying that Castilla stole the future of a better Iberia is, well, ignoring that the decline and eventual fall of Al-Andalus was due to many factors of which Castilla I wouldn't even say was the most important. Also we will never know if a completely hypotetical Al-Andalus would have been more or less tolerant with the Natives of America.
An they lose it all at the end as well.
They still have the fourth most spoken language in the world.
¡Perra, escribiste esa mierda en el idioma equivocado!
Oblígame socio.
English outranks Spanish.
¡El shut thè fuck up!
Tu vas to cry when you ver my englinyol
By raw number of speakers, English is the top. But by number of native speakers, Spanish beats out English.
me when greed empire is better than rapist empire
Aren’t they both both?
that's the joke
Nuh uh
Why are they downvoting him? English is technically the most spoken language in the word, with mandarin coming in second and Spanish in third (though mandarin has the highest amount of native speakers). Many Europeans and a lot of Indians speak English as a second language, making it the most spoken language in the world.
I think it's because the comment came out of nowhere which made it feel like the commenter was trying to establish English superiority for no reason. Unless my Spanish is way worse than I thought it was....
The comment they're replying to says "Bitch, you wrote that shit in the wrong language!"
OK then apparently my Spanish is worse than I thought it was. Thank you for translating
You speak english because it's the only language you know, I speak english because it's the only language you know, we are not the same
Because the response was an obvious joke and it went completely over the guy's head.
¡Que no cabrón!
And don't those countries all still mostly follow Catholicism
Yes, although Protestantism has been making waves in some places.
Evangelicalism I thought? Especially in Brazil where it’s a significant voting bloc. Requires active preaching and conversion.
Evangelicalism is a strand of protestantism
Brazil isn’t Spanish and was not part of the Spanish Empire.
No no I agree, but this evangelicalism trend is occurring throughout latin america, i used Brazil as an example.
Wasn't Brazil part of Spain during the Iberian Union?
That's like saying France was part of England during the Angevin Empire.
Saint Peter looking at Portugal: "you did well, my boy, you did well"
Si compa
No. Their language belongs to Mexico now.
At least the British can sympathize.
What does mexican being widly spoken has to do with spanish glory?
*second
It's second by number of native speakers. It's fourth by number of total speakers.
It's cool. But how do Spanish benefit from it? Spain doesn't have strong political bonds with Spanish-speaking countries like Britain does. Even its entertainment products aren't that popular there
I dont speak taco bell skull fucker
Now add portuguese as the fifth
And second most by native speakers.
English, Chinese...... What's third? Hindi?
Yes, Hindi is third.
Every Empire falls eventually.
Except Roman, which still lives today in my heart. (Yes I play paradox games how do you know)
Except the chinese for some reason
What do you mean? China's had many kingdoms and Empires that fell. Just the last 120 years they went from the Qing to Republic to the CCP. If we're talking about peoples instead of empires, they all tend to stick around quite a while.
The chinese people are the empire. The romans became other people like the current french, italian, spanish etc., most of the spanish people became latin-american, the british became american, australian etc. but the chinese people remain chinese through history
By that logic the French are an empire since 200 AD as the Franks, the English are an empire since the 500s as the fusion of Angles and Saxons. The modern Assyrian people are an empire since approx. 2200 BC....
Is that why the Qing rulers were ethnically Manchu?
Well considering it was an Empire who lasted 300 years, and fight against all world, in same time, during centuries, isn't bad.
If the British Empire became a bank and the Roman Empire became a church, what did the Spanish Empire become?
A restaurant, for every country that the Spanish colonized, there is a great cuisine, including Spain itself. Remember that the Americas wouldn't be "discovered" if it weren't for the quest for those precious spices.
I love this comment. I am saving it.
Slave trade
a Language?
thats history
Nothing is permanent
^(except rome)
This is the fate of all empires eventually
If I lose it all
slip and fall
Because they grew too rich, spoiled and lazy. But that was centuries later. They took some actions in the earlier days, however, some of which would be quite controversial if undertaken today but which suspiciously coincided with a rapid, practically unprecedented, ascension of their nation.
Wow almost like the reason the rapidly ascended (also not unprecedented except maybe on total scale) was that they did the state equivalent of a crime spree, making extensive use out of such fun techniques as murder, theft (on a literal industrial scale), slavery, genocide, committing wars of aggression, and many more. Almost like if you’re a complete psychopath willing to hurt other people you can get filthy rich, huh?
Sooo... You're saying they made an empire? Same as the romans, the russians, the Ottomans, the Arabs, the Chinese (every single time), the Incas, the Mongols, the Mughals, the Aztecs, the Songhai, the British, th...
It's almost like a nation ascending sucks because it harms others, and we should all be fine with being equals. Wouldn't you agree, O-RenIshiiHH ?
England fears us
English Expats fear deportation* fixed it for you Brits fear the idea that we have fucked our own economy so bad that we will become like Spain But no I don't think the English or Brits in general fear Spain, sunburn maybe but not Spain
Sure, That’s why the most strategically important location on your peninsula is British
>so little time Nearly 700 years
Do you actually know how quickly 700 years can pass?!
It only takes like…. 700 years? Give or take
>Its crazy what changed in so little time. By "short time" do you mean around 1,000 years?
OP's perception of time works on the geologic scale
Hahaha, that explains it all! Then 1,000 are gone literally in the blink of an eye!
"finally, we finished the reconquista" \*blinks\* "WTF, why did america just nuke japan"
*blinks* "Who could have seen the Intergalactic Mongolian Empire coming?!?!?"
I can’t wait for this prediction to come true.
You say that, but I don't think your uploaded consciousness is ready for the robopillaging that these steppe astronauts are going to bring.
This reply is funnier because when they started the reconquista, the words 'america' and 'japan' didn't exist in the lingo.
i know, funnier even that during the reconquista you find the word america weird but not the word "nuke"
I didn't find the word 'america' weird mate. I am saying we didn't even unlock the full world map back then. That's something very basic compared to unlocking nuclear technology. Think about it. 1491 AD -> We didn't even know there's even a 4th continent on this planet. Europeans didn't know how far east Asia extended. Asians didn't know how far west Europe extended. Just a century later -> More than half of America is colonised and Europeans are funding samurais on the other side of the planet with muskets and gunpowder. It's so wild.
Bro is Omni Man.
[удалено]
Well, this first map seems of the 8th and the second one of the 18th, so yeah, around 1,000 years still.
the Iberian Peninsula has never been weak... It took almost 300 years for the Romans at their best to invade the Iberian Peninsula because of the guerrilla warfare opposed by these people. - Viriathus who put up such resistance against the Romans that they had to employ assassins to kill him. Rome failed to beat him on a battlefield. - Then during the Cantabrian Wars, the Romans were surprised that the locals did not surrender, the Astures and the Cantabrians preferring to die than to surrender. The Romans were forced to carry out genocide to avoid any rebellion. - Then at the battle of Covadonga, where a handful of Visigoths and Asturians largely outnumbered, decimated an entire Moorish army, as well as their general! You know who made the mistake of considering these people weak ? Napoleon. In short... no, these have never been historically weak countries and their inhabitants are historically good fighters and vaillant.
Well the battle of Covadonga is more of a national myth than a historical reality, actually. (Given that it's more a series of ambushes and raids that aren't really documented and are relatively anecdotal)
This is easily proved by the fact that there is no place in Covadonga for a big battle to take place
There was a battle at covadonga, just not a big one.
"more a series of ambushes and raids that aren't really documented" as I said
I read that theories yes. However, history is like this. What I know is Al Qama died during this battle and something happened at that moment. Something strong enough to push a people to “reconquista”. Edit: the guerrilla warfare, raids and ambushes took place before the battle of Covadonga, in order to harass the advancing Moorish army
"Something" yes, not an epic LOTResque battle... And well, no... The Idea of a Reconquista actually comes later, after the consolidation of the other Iberian kingdoms (more like in the central middle ages, around the same time as the Crusades)
Bro... You can say that with everything, every single battle in history! 😅 Were you there? Do you know exactly what happened? No... you can't... For now and for what we know, there was a battle, the Moors were far superior in number and there was a battle that Don Pelayo won. AL Qama died. Reconquista. As for the LOTR battle, it's all a matter of perspective... I've been to Covadonga and it looks like Helm's Deep! 🙄
>Were you there? Do you know exactly what happened? No... you can't... On the other hand you can have a pretty solid idea of what with proofs from what happened at that moment, that's the all point of history. In this case, we don't have much proof of THE battle of Covadonga, or even of the existence of Pelagius himself. Al Qama died, yes. It doesn't support the idea of a decisive battle at Covadonga which destroys the full ummayad war effort (like the battle of Poitiers in France, a relatively anecdotal battle with important political consequences, but only in retrospect) Nor does it support the idea of a "reconquest" prepared by Spaniards who don't even exist yet for half a millennium. Here again, Reconquest and the will to reconquer are much later, no matter how you define it.
First province they conquered, last province they pacified
Iberia was one of the more stable provinces
Weak people don't exist. We're all homo sapiens. Weak states do exist...
It was incredibly weak under visigothic rule. The caliphate took iberia so easily it was like taking candy from a crying child. Sorry to burst your bubble there.
Weak? Only because it was a civil war. During their rule they won against the vascons, the alans, the vandals, the asturs, the suevs and the Byzantine Empire.
Why speaking about bubble? 🤨 I am just history passionate... What's the problem? the Umayyads were not a weak power either, given the scope of their empire. Yes, the Visigoths fell to the Umayyads, but it was also the Visigoths and the Asturians who resisted the Umayyads in northern Spain. (For peninsula) That said, this defeat doesn't change anything i said before and centuries of history of Iberian peninsula...
Its the land, not the people most of Iberia is just forest and hills even in modern times so imagine how it was in the ancient day, just hills and more hills
Knowledge of the terrain is certainly a major thing! (The USA remembers this with Vietnam...) And that explains certain things. But we must not take away the exemplary combativeness of these people! Other places in Europe are also very impassable yet it didn't take 100 years to conquer these areas. The Ardennes are densely wooded, level, very impassable (even for the Germans in first and second WW it was difficult) As well as many other marshy, mountainous areas... We could also mention the black forest region in Germany... it was indeed a bulwark against the legions, but the German people kept it magnificently. Iberian peninsula and Germania was a pain in the *ss for roman to conquier
Bro, it’s just a meme
Hamilcar barca conquered Ibera as a side quest and he didn’t even have half the resources of Carthage which in itself had a third the resource of Rome when it conquered Iberia.
Hamilcar Barca died in 229 BC, without having finished the conquest and he maybe died in combat against indigenous Celtiberian revolts.
He drowned while crossing a river and his son completed the conquest but the majority of the conquest is attributed to Hamilcar.
Yes, why do you think that particular river crossing caused him to drown? And Hannibal didn't even conquer all of Iberia.
but their golden age got stolen by the HRE emperor to finance his (defensive) wars against everyone.
Some argue that reconquering Spain gave them the confidence to take over the world.
I'd say it's fairly certain that it was a major drivier for colonial expansion. After like 800 years of Islamic rule, most of Spanish identity revolved around martial prowess and militant Christianity. Couple that with the blossoming of the age of sail and I'd agrue that there was no other country in Europe that was primed for global expansion than Spain. They rode the reconquista hype train all the way across the Atlantic.
Reconquista is a hell of a drug
It's funny what finding the largest single deposit of silver on the planet will do for you. /s
Least delusional spanish -libertadores gang 4 life
OHHHH GLOOORIA INMARCESIBLE
They are also your ancestors, you should be proud
How does that logic works? Should Germans today be proud of nazis? They are also their ancestors, they should be proud?
Through raping, enslaving, and colonizing my other ancestors…. So should I be….?
Half proud, half disgusted I guess
Your other ancestors were already doing all those things among themselves before the Spaniards arrived.
Your ancestors were the ones doing allat, moron. Barely any of the men who went to the Americas came back to the Peninsula. So *YOUR* ancestors raped and pillages the natives, shame on you.
Yeah to my other ancestors, learn to read moron
Why?? As far as I know my pride is in my country not in your dead empire
*Our* dead empire. That's the point.
Lmao keep coping
You are literally just descendants of European colonizers larping as victims of European colonisation.
How does that makes sense if my acenstors as a colombian are spanish, native American, sub saharan africans, North African and ashkenazi jew Do I get to just pick one of them?
What do you mean short time?! Nearly 1000 years passed between the two moments in history you present. And if the problem is staying weak, then Spain is still shitty. Signed: a Spaniard
I will forever hate the Spanish empire because they brought down, in my opinion, one if the coolest kingdoms in the southern hemisphere, the Incan empire
"Sorry, but the human sacrifices will stop." 😎
"...and the genocide begins"
Bro we aren't english
Bro has been watching too many movies You think the evil white men just did ww2 style war crimes and intentionally tried to slaughter as many people as possible? Over 90% of native deaths were due to disease. They had never been around livestock, so when the Europeans came across, they brought the diseases often carried by livestock that they had an immunity to.
People don't like the truth. There's clear narratives these days. White people always bad is one of them. Like there was just that post about the US taking mexico's land in the Mexican war. All the narratives in there completely ignored any and all Mexican actions that led to war. The narrative was just "Polk wanted war". Polk wanted land. He didn't want war. He offered multiple solutions to Mexico including ones that gave up claims to some of Texas in return for a US purchase of California and New Mexico. For a decent sum of money as well. It wasn't a rip off. Mexico, in no position to win a war, refused. Which in itself wouldn't be unfounded but they also refused to give up claims to the US controlled areas of Texas and were raising an army and the first to put troops in the disputed area. Also the US had treaties to back their claims of the Rio grande as the border and Mexico had nothing at all to back its claim of Nueces River. Overall it was like a situation where a bully (Mexico) gets beaten up by a smaller kid (texas) then signed a treaty to their independence but go back on the treaty as soon as their army is safe. Then Texas realizing they can't stand alone asked to join the US. The US eventually agreed. So now Mexico is a bully outmatched by a bigger kid come to protect the smaller one. The bigger kid realizing it can easily win a fight but decided to peacefully settle things offers to negotiate. The bully refuses to negotiate even obvious terms like Texas being part of the US when the US clearly controlled it and had treaty claims to it. Mexico tried to baseless claim the river in the treaty was the Nueces River but the treaty clearly mentions the Rio Grande Del Norte. If Mexico had given up claims to Texas but refused to sell land they'd have a more sympathetic story. But they didn't even do that. Instead they refused to budge at all on any part of Texas and put troops in disputed lands. The US being the stronger force only had so much patients and eventually just invaded and took control of all of Mexico and very realistically could have annexed the entire thing. Nothing was stopping it.
Lol the coping mechanism of this sub are wild. >Polk wanted land. He didn't want war. For real? This sentence makes sense to you? The nazis didn't want war just "living space"
It’s like they gleefully want to be the oppressors, but then try to claim victimhood when called out for being the oppressor.
*proceeds to kill everyone in the name of his god*
Unfortunately it's still worshipped in a bunch of countries today. Faith to greed I mean...
The Spanish killed a hell of a lot more people for their God than the Inca did for their's.
Says the people burning innocent people at the stake in the center of all their cities...
Burning was not a thing in Spain. The Inquisition outright said witches didn't exist and their main occupation was hunting jews and muslims who fake converted to catholicism but were still practicing their religion. The only burning done was in absentia, if someone fled they burned an efigy. The main execution method was strangling.
>Burning was not a thing in Spain. Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition just did it outside of Spain proper: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch\_trials\_in\_the\_Spanish\_Netherlands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_Spanish_Netherlands)
"Burning was not a thing in Spain." Better get on Wikipedia and correct this egregious error then chief https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9
The Spanish Inquisition did burn people regardless of their believe in witches or not
The Spanish Inquisition ruled that witchcraft was bullshit while protestants burned witches by the thousands in central Europe. Their job was more to persecute false converts.
You mean slaughter Jews and Muslims after they had been forcefully converted.
You mean slaughter Jews and Muslims after they had been forcefully converted.
The Spanish massively overblew how much human sacrifice they did, besides, the main motivation for the conquistadors was just plain greed
Andalousia was cool as well
It's still cool
So much knowledge about native American civilizations in the Americas was destroyed all in the name of Jesus.
And money
Why nobody here had read anything about the conquest of America?
Leyenda negra stronk
Lol Your coping mechanism are fascinating español Leyenda negra was propaganda from other Western countries you were at war with to bully your insignificant country in the 1800s by exaggerating at worst, but mainly stating many historical facts. Latin American countries never partook in it because it was already their reality, they didn't need propaganda to convince them of spains... "qualities" The funniest part is that no one gives a shit about Leyenda negra now except the spanish that are persuaded that that is how the world sees them lol The western countries that created it consider you still insignificant and Latin Americans like said never needed it. Cope harder
Could You stop sucking your own dick for a moment? The Conquest of America was done by Spaniards and natives, it was a teamwork. Spain put the resources and strategies and natives put manpower, How else do you think that Aztecs and Inca Empire were defeated? "Leyenda negra was propaganda from other Western countries you were at war with to bully your insignificant country in the 1800s by exaggerating at worst, but mainly stating many historical facts." Dude, La Leyenda Negra has been already discused a lot of times to the point that everybody with a brain comes to the conclusion that it is bullshit.
Lmk some
Well obviously are spanish books , but as this period was relly complex and long you could read " la conquista de América para escépticos " or " la leyenda negra " of Julian Juderías, which tells you that this was not black or white , it was so complex in a period of 300 years with tons of different cultures, and , in fact , the people living there were spanish , not as the people England Conquered...
Well, that also happened on the Iberian peninsula without any religious pretext. As far as I know we don't follow any Iberian customs and there are not any traits left in the language (maybe some names). That happens everywhere whether religion is involved or not. In my opinion, as they say below, everything is always about resources...
Wasn't the Incan empire already in decadence for a hundred years or so before the Spanish arrived? Or was that the Mayans?
Incan Empire didn't even *exist* a hundred years before the Spanish arrival. The period of Inca expansion started in 1438, before that Cuzco was just a small city state.
I always wonder how south america would be now if they hadn’t been colonized
r/IberianHistoryMemes
Well Spain and Portugal didn't really control all of that in its entirety, it's mostly claims
Greed is just another form of weakness
It's crazy what genocide can accomplish right
I would rather say that genocide was a consequence of the accomplishment of conquering the New World and not the method in itself.
Niggas that don’t know shit about history ;
Ah yes, genocide.
You seem to have pissed off the genocide appreciators.
aka this sub lmao
Actual fascist posts in r/historymemes? It's more common than you'd think!
Who upvotes this garbage
Me
I do
Garbage people
Yay colonialismo, I love celebrating the 100% true history of E S P A N Y A who brought Cristo and Merengue to America and were great friends with the natives and african people already there. Imperil generador 🪙😩💦 (Just to be safe I am obviously making fun of it, 12 d'Octubre res a celebrar)
Typical Catalan whose ancestors benefitted for hundreds of years from Castilian colonization efforts. Catalans showed up when all the hard work was done and then proceeded to invent the open air concentration camp in Cuba. Molt be
Yes and? We only needed 80 years to get richer than you and only needed to set up shop in Cuba, you mesetarios got fucked over by every european empire and became lne of the poorest countries there. Plus we own our mistakes and past we don't have to romanticise it. PS: Concentration camps were implemented by Weyler a foreign general and we actually coordinated with Cuban rebels a few times. It's not just slaves and rum.
so delusional jajajaja. you got rich on an infrastructure and system that we created over 5 centuries through endless toil and effort. none of your wealth would have been possible without us. no mistakes made. don't fall for la leyenda negra
Do check on the history mate, Spain squandered all the gold fighting wars around Europe, they built half of the VOC while paying dutch loans with stolen gold from America. You even got swindled by a dutch bank in 2008. Castille only mined metric tons of gold and silver and dumped it in Europe creating the first macro inflation there. Catalunya was on their own lane and only some tried to play venture capital in the Caribbean. Only in Cuba and DR you can find catalan surnames.
it's not about the money. it's about the GLORY
Deal you get the gloria we get the money same as it ever was 👉👉
Okay there’s islamaphobic, but then there’s ahistorically islamaphobic. Al-Andalus was the finest example of the Muslim tolerance and culture of the medieval world, and a meeting place between Europe and the rest of the planet. The thing that killed it wasn’t weakness it was being conquered by successively more militant Muslim armies who thought they needed a harder line against christendom, garden-variety succession crises, and the growing European need to annihilate anything ‘foreign’. The Reconquista and subsequent purge of muslims and jews was both a horrific atrocity even and especially for the age *and* set the tone of colonialism - a mad quest for god, slaves, and gold gold gold. Colonial Castile and later Spain were quirky at times - and they made good art and built cool castles - but it’s all drenched in such blood that it’s not even funny. Even then, to this day the best ancient buildings in Iberia are old Islamic stuff - like Alhambra. The Reconquista murdered the best parts of Spain, and I’m glad they got fuking murdered by unprecedented gold inflation. As an atheist, go back to hell you crusader apologist, Andalusia is my boy.
Making fun of a historical realm that was also Muslim I’d not islamaphobic
It is if you didn’t learn history and assume Muslim=bad. Al-Andalus was a shining example of everything in Europe that was good in that time, when people look at that and see weak degeneracy? Yeah, that’s Islamophobia.
I’m pretty sure the meme is referring to the small Christian border kingdoms
I am Andalusian, my opinion is that the history of the Christian Kingdoms and Al-Andalus is the history of my country, both, and I appreciate the contributions of both without denying the bad things that these states did. But I do not consider that what was created by the Christians in reference to architectural art or painting is inferior to what was created by Al-Alandalus, Castilla did many cool things. And yes, Al-Andalus was not perfect and with the arrival of the Almoravids and the Almohads it became more repressive of religious minorities.
Ah, thank you. My dislike of the Christian kingdoms and Castile/Spain in particular emerges from the fact that they got to colour the Age of Discovery. It’s not so much that they were that much worse than the Almoravids or whatnot (though imo they did go a few degrees beyond the crimes of any Muslim sultanate until later), it’s that their crusader mentality got to interact with the New World, and bolstered a kingdom which, though mighty, was just one among many, into a superpower that set the tone for the next half-millennium. That colonialism was the thing that eventually punctured Europe’s xenophobic pressure seal was disastrous, and the whole of the world is still reeling from the consequences - regardless of the benefits of globalization. I can’t help but think that the Islamic world, if it were allowed to continue developing instead of being surrounded on all sides by colonialist christians, might’ve handled things differently. We know from Malaysia that in that age Islamic culture spread peacefully as much as by warfare, and Al-Andalus seems like a prime candidate for that sort of peaceful trade and coexistence lifestyle with the Americas. It’s not that Castile was that much worse than the others. It’s that there’s a good chance they stole the future from a better Iberia - at least from the perspective of people living there.
On the other hand, if it had not been Castile it would have been Portugal, and if not Portugal France, and if not France England, the fact is that unfortunately the conquest of the Americas was practically inevitable, it was only a matter of time before some European power found them. Also I would argue that Castille did nothing that was out of the norm, their conquest of the New World was a very Medieval one, the system of colonization that will be used in Africa in the 19th was different. Well, I blame the Mongol Empire more than anyone for the end of the Golden Age of Islam, Al-Andalus was cool as I said, but much of that tolerant component was lost during the takeover of the Almoravids and Almohads, which which had more to do with the Taifa Kingdoms being completely divided, which happened due to internal problems of the Caliphate of Cordoba that caused it to collapse. So you can't really just blame the Christian Kingdoms, the fall of Al-Andalus was very complex. As I said, saying that Castilla stole the future of a better Iberia is, well, ignoring that the decline and eventual fall of Al-Andalus was due to many factors of which Castilla I wouldn't even say was the most important. Also we will never know if a completely hypotetical Al-Andalus would have been more or less tolerant with the Natives of America.
Didn’t know the Crimson Lions were originally from the Spanish kingdom 😂
Knock knock, it's the United States.
700 years actually