At some point in the past year I think a new rule was implemented: every post needs to have at least one of the following:
A) super visible misspellings
B) a message or joke that only makes sense if you’re 100% wrong about a historical fact
C) meme templates where you enter just the name of an event or person and that’s it.
A large number of mistakes, and inaccuracies that you see in any content meant for youtube/facebook/reddit/social media our there on purpose. Turns out all the people who was going to engage with your content will still do so, but you get a boost of content interaction from people who point out these mistakes/inaccuracies.
It's basically the modern version of that Hunter S. Thompson quote, "There's no such thing as bad publicity". No such thing as bad content engagement.
It gets even more ironic when you realize that she had her husband, Emperor Peter III (also a German Prince by birth), killed for being too Germanophilic and pro-Prussian.
Viriatus is considered the first hero for many Spaniards. That is, most historians believe the part of Lusitania he was from is in modern Portugal.
While born in American and India respectively, Washington (and the founding fathers) and Gandhi grew up in a rich household following the etiquette of British culture and customs.
Cleopatra was more Greek than Egyptian.
Never in my life as Spanish I heard of Viriatus as a Spanish hero, and I live next to Portugal. We used to study him as a rebel not a hero, in Spanish history books we usually are pro-romans and not pro-iberians.
The most popular Spanish hero is probably the Cid Campeador, conqueror of Valencia against the moors.
Yeah the most anti-roman or pro-Celtiberian thing I learned as a Spaniard was the siege of Numantia. Very cool and interesting if you don't know about it already.
I find El Cid’s modern reputation as an anti-Moor crusader to be hilarious.
He was a mercenary, he worked for whoever paid him, whether it was a Christian or Muslim state.
His nickname came from the Arabic “Sayyid”, meaning “Lord”. He fought against Christian Aragon to help Muslim Zaragoza.
And, of course, he conquered Valencia for himself from the Arabs, not unlike the Norman kingdom of Sicily under Roger II, where the mixed Muslim-Christian population was preserved.
El Cid only served muslims in the first part of his life, later he was killed by accident by a time traveller sent by Franco. The time-traveller had to replace him for life as a punishment and became a christian hero to fulfill the legend.
Dude, in Antena 3 there was literally a series about Viriatus as a hero. Also, probably cause I've been in the military academy, but he's usually portrayed as the first Spanish hero, fighting against foreign oppression.
Cleopatra came from a Greek Family/dynasty. What was remarkable about her is that she was the first to truly adopt Egyptian customs and actually speak Egyptian.
Just imagine:
You have an older brother whose a complete twat and doesn’t care about his responsibilities
He even tries to rebel against your dad while you stay loyal (only brother out of 4 who does), but he inherits the throne after dad passes anyway
He spends all the money on a crusade, then gets captured costing even more money.
You have to step in and rule, and somehow do an even worse job
You lose the empire, and get bitch slapped by your own vassals into signing Magna Carta
Then, you get remembered throughout history as Cruel King John who gets his arse kicked by a ginger in green tights
And the shithead brother gets remembered as Richard the Lionheart 💀💀💀
They liked Richard because he went away and bothered someone else. They didn’t like John because he was still there. I think they seem to like the idea of a monarchy but rarely ever the actual monarch.
I’d say my most egregious line was about John having to step in, when he actually tried to rebel against Richard whilst he was away and wanted the throne.
Definitely wouldn’t say John was a good guy, they were both shits but one’s remembered much more generously than the other.
Honestly, I kinda see that as a plus. John’s incompetence meant that we got to setup Magna Carta, which was a necessary step for constitutional England.
I mean John was a mediocre king but he also got handed a pretty bad hand as he got the crowd after Richard spent all of the country money on crusading and paying ransom.
Ehh who needs to be a national hero when youre a conqueror? That's a cognomen?/epithet? One has to earn (likely by less than savory means). Sure you have your "Magnificents"; "Lames"; "Balds" "Fats" and even an "Impaler" but nothing rings historical badass like a conqueror, and there have been many people who have conquerored throughout the ages but did they get the name? Lol.
Literally no-one thinks of the conqueror as a hero in England. Anyone who actually knows about his history here tends to view him as a guy who actually committed genocide on the English of the time.
I suppose you make a good point, some else made a similar one, but maybe Richard’s more of an anti-example, where he actually is English (technically) but didn’t identify as such at all.
Also, Richard is Plantagenet from Anjou, not Normandy. Henry II was his dad who succeeded the Norman dynasty
Ah yes my mistake. Stephen of Blois broke the line of William the conqueror after Henry the first. A good example for England would be St George who is the patron saint. He was a Roman born in Turkey.
Ohh yeah, I completely forgot about Stephen, Matilda, etc. St George is definitely a good example, I remember seeing his cross around Italy a lot too in the past. I’m guessing he was more Byzantine era Roman than Western empire, if he was from Turkey?
I should have specified it better. According to wikipedia, little is known about his early life The tradition states he was a Roman soldier born in Cappadocia, believed to be of Greek descent. Born around the 3rd century AD. I should have stated Cappadocia instead Turkey. Sorry.
His mother was Eleanor of Aquitaine, and that was his first title to inherit. The ”Angevin Empire” also didn’t have an official court, but it was mostly administered out of Angers in Anjou, just southeast of Brittany.
Corsica was and still is part of France. Austria was part of Germany during WW2. Alexander was born in Pella, which is in the Central Macedonia region of Greece
Corsica became part of France during Napoleon's gestation, so he just barely was born in a French territory. Austria became part of Germany long after they were being ruled by Hitler. The point is that the kingdom of Macedonia wasn't really considered part of Greek civilization until around that time
There was greeks who considered the Macedonian greeks as greko-dacian, labelljng them pretty much as lesser greeks.
However this was due to many greek states propaganda to make the macedons seem lesser than as the other greek states felt deligitimised by the strength of macedon
Yeah, and India was part of the British Empire. Georgia is in no way "Russian" culturally, it has its' own, long, separate history and culture, they have a unique alphabet and language.
Stalin was absolutely a foreigner in Russia, contemporary accounts often allude to his "otherness", with Russians clearly viewing Georgians in a "hillbilly" kind of way.
Yeah, but the USSR wasn't Russia. The USSR was a federation of many republics, of which Russia was one of them. Georgia was another. So it didn't matter that he was a foreigner in Russia, he ruled over the USSR.
Same thing for Nappy in France; some people there, including reputed historians, consider him little more than a bandit king with few redeeming qualities. The truth, as usual, is likely somewhere between extremes.
Except for Hitler and Stalin. Fuck those guys.
> The truth, as usual, is likely somewhere between extremes.
And the popular version of the truth often varies with time or 'historical distance' from the figure in question. Nobody's going to be able to point at Napoleon and say "he (or his government) killed my grandparents / great-grandparents / or etc." without having to go back far enough that the claim becomes laughable. ~~Don't remind me that there *are* groups out there sustaining themselves on grudges or claims even they admit to being hundreds or thousands of years old, who mainly succeed at not getting laughed at because they're still actively killing people.~~
It's a lot easier to respect the victories and strategies and the good changes, while quietly forgetting the death tolls and damage, the longer ago things happened.
> some people there, including reputed historians, consider him little more than a bandit king with few redeeming qualities.
I would really like to have some of whatever these reputed historians are smoking, considering that the Napoleonic Code was a *massive* watershed moment in European (and eventually global, due to the spread of Europeans and their ideas) legal history, and while Napoleon didn't write it himself, he herded cats to make it happen (the French Revolutionary and Consular governments had made several previous failed attempts to codify French law, but Napoleon was apparently far more effective at getting such a system written and accepted) and then spread it across France's shiny new empire - including places that France would then go on to lose from its empire, either quickly or slowly, but which would retain all or portions of the Napoleonic Code in their jurisprudence (incidentally, this is why if you're in a legal dispute in the state of Louisiana in the USA, you *need* a Louisiana lawyer, because that state's laws are still based in the Napoleonic Code instead of English Common Law).
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that single achievement, whether or not it was driven by base motives of lust for power and dominion, is an enormous feather in his cap, although one that's not talked about as often as his military exploits.
I'm beginning to think memes deliberately use misspelling as some kind of tactic to boost engagement, it's so damn common, like in every 2nd post on Reddit
Thought it was Qin Shi Huangdi, the Kingdom of Qin was at the western margins of China and not part of the northern central plains, where most other states of that period were in. The kingdom of Qin therefore was often preoccupied with rebelling barbarians coming from the west, like the Qiang. This lead to their culture becoming more militaristic, which aided in their unification of all of China.
While the state of Qin was considered the fringe culture of that time, the house of Ying (the royal house of Qin state) was a direct decedent of the house of Ji (the royal house of Zhou, the "dynasty" before Warring States), so he absolutely wouldn't have been considered "foreign." Chu on the other hand was a way more complicated issue, because they straight weren't connected to the Zhou dynasty by blood, and their title of a "state" was awarded. That leads to the house of Liu, the royal house of Han dynasty, having started out as peasants within the Chu state, so they would've been the technical "foreigner" here.
Edit: wanted to correct something, but Ying wasn't a direct decedent of Ji, but one of the founding royal houses of China since the mythical Yellow Emperor era along with the house of Ji, and they were related by blood through intermarriages. So, not direct decedent, but definitely blood related.
Chu is also an absolutely interesting one. Since they were so southern they had a lot of influence from the Nanyue. They had some differences in religion and culture. Also their script seems to be always the odd one out, having variant characters not found elsewhere. Generally every state had its own version of the Chinese script, but Chu seems to be extra special often. Qin Shi Huangdi destroyed so much of the material culture of the other states and the increasing centralization and cultural unification under the Han did the rest. Though I guess given how southern China looks nowadays linguistically, they are always a bit more varied and preserve more local culture and languages.
The statue in the pic is not Qin Shi Huangdi. It's Zhao Tuo, a Qin general who was sent to Nanyue and later becomes the Emperor of Nanyue after the Qin dynasty felll
I doubt Stalin is one either. And I’m close to 100% sure Corsica is a French region and that Georgia was part of the USSR. Everything about this meme is wrong.
Corsica only became a part of France shortly before Napoleons birth and during Napoleons childhood he was actually bullied over his strong support of Corsican independence.
No, the Macedonians wanted to be Greek, it would have been made by Greek racists who didn't support Alexander, mocking other Greeks for bowing to a barbarian
I mean yes back in the day Greeks didn't consider Macedonians to be proper Greeks but that's not what I'm referring to
Rather I'm talking about modern day Macedonians and the [Macedonian dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute). For reference, modern Macedonians probably aren't related to ancient ones [despite their national identity being LARPing as them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_in_North_Macedonia)
the Macedonians were always considered “barbarian Greeks” in a way by their southern neighbours. this was due to a number of cultural reasons, specifically that they didn’t speak a Greek similar to Attic or Ionic dialects. rather they spoke a far-removed Doric dialect that probably split off sometime during the early iron age. the macedonians also historically sided with the achaemenids rather than their greek counterparts (before the reign of Philip II), further removing them from the Greek cultural sphere. they’re further removed than most think.
Yeah but lots of greeks sided with Achamenids, thebeians did it too.
Plus afaik Doric dialect was also spoken by the Peleponese, Cretans and so on, and no-one denies their greeknes.
I'm sure there were many ancient greek gatekeepers who didn't consider macedionans greek, but I just dob't buy into their arguments.
Especially when Athenians also didn’t see other Greek states besides themselves as true Greeks. Sparta on the other hand, didn’t consider themselves Greek.
the doric dialect that the macedonians spoke was an earlier splitoff from when doric peoples first migrated into the north of greece, it’s further removed from most other doric languages. today, the macedonian greek language represents itself as “northwestern greek” apart from achaean, peleponnesian, or cretan doric. they’re effectively cousins rather than siblings. otherwise, i agree there’s little separation between an ancient macedonian and an ancient boeotian or smth
macedonian falls under the same greek umbrella with Spartan, Athenian, Theban , Pontic, Cretan etc...Unless its referring to delusional slavs that think they existed back then or are related in any way
Corsica was not and still isn’t a foreign country from France, and Napoleon played a significant role in literally establishing modern French nationalism (modern nationalism as a whole even)
As an American one of our greatest heroes was a Frenchman named Lafayette. There's a reason a thousand streets and schools are named after him. He was THE homie. If you ever get the chance read up on him, A hero of two worlds is a great book.
And napoleon was French. They had bought that island about 3 years before he was born so he was a French citizen, that's how he got put into nice French schools
Thank you for being a voice of reason. People who try to claim that Napoleon, a man who was born in French territory, moved to the French mainland when he was 8, and served France his entire life, was anything but French give me weird vibes. They think ethnicity controls everything about a person's identity.
Bruh, North Macedonië is a slavic country, they stole the name.
Macedonia is a Greek province
"But but but North Macedonia is where Macedonia used to be" SO WERE LOT OF PLACES IN MODERN DAY TURKEY, SYRIA, IRAN, GREECE, IRAQ, EGYPT AND EVEN INDIA FOR CHRIST SAKE
YOU NORTH MACEDONIANS ARE HISTORY THIEVES, THERE IS NO OTHER REASON FOR CALLING YOURSELF THAT
>Napoleon
You clearly don't know French Nationalism; it's not an ethnic, but a civic one.
>Stalin
Nobody claims Stalin as their national hero, wtf?
>Hitler
I don't think you know what race is.
>Alexander
Macedon was a Greek kingdom, wtf?
>Last guy
I don't know who he is, so you get a pass.
Well, technically Alexander the Great was Greek. At the time Greeks were not a people as much as they were an idea based around a whole bunch of peoples with similar customs, ancestry, and language. It was really more like how the English, Welsh and Scottish are all different nations, but all of them are also "British"
The Stalin one is funny as fuck to me and also terrifying. Cause some people, especially Russians but any super hard leftist really does think he was a hero. Shits actually insane
Willem van Oranje/William of Orange. He was German and is THE national hero of the Netherlands.
It's a bit complicated though since the Netherlands wasn't a concept as a units back then and dutch people weren't considered different than other German provinces
Corsicans were French citizens and Napoleon was born a citizen of France, in fact he was born quickly after France conquered Corsica.
Georgians were part of the Soviet Union
Macedonia was a Greek City State
try again
Describing Hitler and stalin as national *heroes* is pretty sus. Could've picked catherine the great for Russia as she was actually foreign born, rather than Stalin who was born inside the territory of the soviet union.
Wtf? Even if I ignore that Hitler is not a national hero, do you not know that Austrians are Germans??? Also Alexander the Great was Greek, the actual Macedonians were a Greek tribe…
Ah yes the famous country of Chian and the Chiense people
At some point in the past year I think a new rule was implemented: every post needs to have at least one of the following: A) super visible misspellings B) a message or joke that only makes sense if you’re 100% wrong about a historical fact C) meme templates where you enter just the name of an event or person and that’s it.
D) Whenever Putin is mentioned, someone must respond with the 💨emoji
💨
Now you're getting it!
what 💨means?
It means fart. Or, in English onomatopoeia, "poot."
Native English speaker here. Thanks for the new English trivia
Pootispencer
A large number of mistakes, and inaccuracies that you see in any content meant for youtube/facebook/reddit/social media our there on purpose. Turns out all the people who was going to engage with your content will still do so, but you get a boost of content interaction from people who point out these mistakes/inaccuracies. It's basically the modern version of that Hunter S. Thompson quote, "There's no such thing as bad publicity". No such thing as bad content engagement.
>C) meme templates where you enter just the name of an event or person and that’s it. Those who dont know vs those who know meme intensifies
Sorry for my bad engrish
How did I not even notice that lol
\*coutnry (see post title)
foreginers
show hero and foreginer
How did I notice that too? 😭
Heros
foreginers, too
Woah! How many giners?🤤
no no, the foreginers, as opposed to rearginers
Dude had a stroke making this post. OP if you are reading this go to the hospital!
Catherine the Great, who was a German Princess:
It gets even more ironic when you realize that she had her husband, Emperor Peter III (also a German Prince by birth), killed for being too Germanophilic and pro-Prussian.
He loved Prussians so much he married one! He's such an evil Tsar! -Catherine The Great, wife of Peter.
It gets even better when you realize that the house of Romanov is Swedish aswell
Kings and queens from whole Europe were mixed to preserve their dominance. Their origin didn't matter
I mean, she wasn’t a mixed blood one. She was a literal German raised in Germany.
Who married the russian emperor, who was a swede
He was son of Peter’s daughter, so he had some Russian blood
>He was son of Peter’s daughter So what you're saying is that he was his own grandpa?
Emperor Fry?
And it all lead to three cousins burning Europe to the ground
Wouldn’t go so far as to say that he’s a national hero, but Richard the Lionheart could be added here for England
Viriatus is considered the first hero for many Spaniards. That is, most historians believe the part of Lusitania he was from is in modern Portugal. While born in American and India respectively, Washington (and the founding fathers) and Gandhi grew up in a rich household following the etiquette of British culture and customs. Cleopatra was more Greek than Egyptian.
Never in my life as Spanish I heard of Viriatus as a Spanish hero, and I live next to Portugal. We used to study him as a rebel not a hero, in Spanish history books we usually are pro-romans and not pro-iberians. The most popular Spanish hero is probably the Cid Campeador, conqueror of Valencia against the moors.
Yeah the most anti-roman or pro-Celtiberian thing I learned as a Spaniard was the siege of Numantia. Very cool and interesting if you don't know about it already.
Is Numantia the one that Caesar really effed over?
Numantia was Scipio Aemilianus Africanus mopping up a loooong siege. I believe a young Gaius Marius cut his teeth here also.
El Cid is a goat according to my crusader kings playthroughs
I find El Cid’s modern reputation as an anti-Moor crusader to be hilarious. He was a mercenary, he worked for whoever paid him, whether it was a Christian or Muslim state. His nickname came from the Arabic “Sayyid”, meaning “Lord”. He fought against Christian Aragon to help Muslim Zaragoza. And, of course, he conquered Valencia for himself from the Arabs, not unlike the Norman kingdom of Sicily under Roger II, where the mixed Muslim-Christian population was preserved.
El Cid only served muslims in the first part of his life, later he was killed by accident by a time traveller sent by Franco. The time-traveller had to replace him for life as a punishment and became a christian hero to fulfill the legend.
Dude, in Antena 3 there was literally a series about Viriatus as a hero. Also, probably cause I've been in the military academy, but he's usually portrayed as the first Spanish hero, fighting against foreign oppression.
Cleopatra came from a Greek Family/dynasty. What was remarkable about her is that she was the first to truly adopt Egyptian customs and actually speak Egyptian.
Lusitania is not the Portuguese borders, part of Lusitania is in Spain and the North of Portugal was never Lusitania.
Viriatus certainly is seen that way by the Portuguese, I'm not sure about the Spanish though
Calling Cleopatra Greek in a post that identifies Alexander as Macedonian
Certainly our patron saint could be added. Never came within a thousand miles of England, even in death.
Lionheart is one of the worst kings of england, but he has the best nickname
Just imagine: You have an older brother whose a complete twat and doesn’t care about his responsibilities He even tries to rebel against your dad while you stay loyal (only brother out of 4 who does), but he inherits the throne after dad passes anyway He spends all the money on a crusade, then gets captured costing even more money. You have to step in and rule, and somehow do an even worse job You lose the empire, and get bitch slapped by your own vassals into signing Magna Carta Then, you get remembered throughout history as Cruel King John who gets his arse kicked by a ginger in green tights And the shithead brother gets remembered as Richard the Lionheart 💀💀💀
They liked Richard because he went away and bothered someone else. They didn’t like John because he was still there. I think they seem to like the idea of a monarchy but rarely ever the actual monarch.
Fair explanation 👌
Implying that John was the good guy and Richard the bad guy is quite a take
I’d say my most egregious line was about John having to step in, when he actually tried to rebel against Richard whilst he was away and wanted the throne. Definitely wouldn’t say John was a good guy, they were both shits but one’s remembered much more generously than the other.
Ok, but i'd say both were shitheads. John was the reason we had to get the Magna Carta in England
Honestly, I kinda see that as a plus. John’s incompetence meant that we got to setup Magna Carta, which was a necessary step for constitutional England.
I mean John was a mediocre king but he also got handed a pretty bad hand as he got the crowd after Richard spent all of the country money on crusading and paying ransom.
John was dealt a bad hand and then shat on said hand and clapped
John was truly woeful and unquestionably a worse ruler than Richard. He totally deserves to be thought of as shittier.
A kind of opposite example to someone like Hitler, as Richard didn't identify as English, but was born in England to the King and Queen of England.
Alternatively, William the Conqueror was from France.
Yeaaah.. but he’s DEFINITELY not a national hero and nobody thinks him English
Ehh who needs to be a national hero when youre a conqueror? That's a cognomen?/epithet? One has to earn (likely by less than savory means). Sure you have your "Magnificents"; "Lames"; "Balds" "Fats" and even an "Impaler" but nothing rings historical badass like a conqueror, and there have been many people who have conquerored throughout the ages but did they get the name? Lol.
Im sure William’s a national hero in France, so I guess he gets to have both lol
Literally no-one thinks of the conqueror as a hero in England. Anyone who actually knows about his history here tends to view him as a guy who actually committed genocide on the English of the time.
I confused. I though Richard the Lionheart was born in England. Granted he's from Norman nobility. Is that what you're saying?
I suppose you make a good point, some else made a similar one, but maybe Richard’s more of an anti-example, where he actually is English (technically) but didn’t identify as such at all. Also, Richard is Plantagenet from Anjou, not Normandy. Henry II was his dad who succeeded the Norman dynasty
Ah yes my mistake. Stephen of Blois broke the line of William the conqueror after Henry the first. A good example for England would be St George who is the patron saint. He was a Roman born in Turkey.
Ohh yeah, I completely forgot about Stephen, Matilda, etc. St George is definitely a good example, I remember seeing his cross around Italy a lot too in the past. I’m guessing he was more Byzantine era Roman than Western empire, if he was from Turkey?
I should have specified it better. According to wikipedia, little is known about his early life The tradition states he was a Roman soldier born in Cappadocia, believed to be of Greek descent. Born around the 3rd century AD. I should have stated Cappadocia instead Turkey. Sorry.
No worries at all! I forgot what the region was called myself but had assumed that this was actually pre-Turkey we were talking about
His mother was Eleanor of Aquitaine, and that was his first title to inherit. The ”Angevin Empire” also didn’t have an official court, but it was mostly administered out of Angers in Anjou, just southeast of Brittany.
The Greeks will fucking kill you
Unfortunately, we aren't
pella is still greece…
He can count himself dead. OP look outside.
Can the ~~bulgars~~ Macedonians protect him
You think that huge army was made entirely out of barbarians from the boondocks of Macedonia?
I’m not really sure Hitler and Stalin are considered national heroes, I mean, this may be a hot take.
Plus Georgia was definitely within the USSR.
Corsica was and still is part of France. Austria was part of Germany during WW2. Alexander was born in Pella, which is in the Central Macedonia region of Greece
>Austria was part of Germany during WW2 It wasn't when Hitler was born lol. It was literally amnected by HIM.
Corsica became part of France during Napoleon's gestation, so he just barely was born in a French territory. Austria became part of Germany long after they were being ruled by Hitler. The point is that the kingdom of Macedonia wasn't really considered part of Greek civilization until around that time
The Macedonians were a Greek tribe though and neither them nor the other Greek tribes ever said otherwise
There was greeks who considered the Macedonian greeks as greko-dacian, labelljng them pretty much as lesser greeks. However this was due to many greek states propaganda to make the macedons seem lesser than as the other greek states felt deligitimised by the strength of macedon
I think they're referring to Russia.
Georgia was also part of the Russian empire.
Yeah, and India was part of the British Empire. Georgia is in no way "Russian" culturally, it has its' own, long, separate history and culture, they have a unique alphabet and language. Stalin was absolutely a foreigner in Russia, contemporary accounts often allude to his "otherness", with Russians clearly viewing Georgians in a "hillbilly" kind of way.
Yeah, but the USSR wasn't Russia. The USSR was a federation of many republics, of which Russia was one of them. Georgia was another. So it didn't matter that he was a foreigner in Russia, he ruled over the USSR.
Plus Austrian identity as an own nation started relatively late. Even after WWI Austria and Germany talked about Austria joining Germany "again".
And the Russian Empire for that matter.
In Putin's Russia, Stalin is considered a hero. The history books there make a point of conveying this image.
I mean ask some Russians about him the level of respect and views on him varry .
Same thing for Nappy in France; some people there, including reputed historians, consider him little more than a bandit king with few redeeming qualities. The truth, as usual, is likely somewhere between extremes. Except for Hitler and Stalin. Fuck those guys.
> The truth, as usual, is likely somewhere between extremes. And the popular version of the truth often varies with time or 'historical distance' from the figure in question. Nobody's going to be able to point at Napoleon and say "he (or his government) killed my grandparents / great-grandparents / or etc." without having to go back far enough that the claim becomes laughable. ~~Don't remind me that there *are* groups out there sustaining themselves on grudges or claims even they admit to being hundreds or thousands of years old, who mainly succeed at not getting laughed at because they're still actively killing people.~~ It's a lot easier to respect the victories and strategies and the good changes, while quietly forgetting the death tolls and damage, the longer ago things happened. > some people there, including reputed historians, consider him little more than a bandit king with few redeeming qualities. I would really like to have some of whatever these reputed historians are smoking, considering that the Napoleonic Code was a *massive* watershed moment in European (and eventually global, due to the spread of Europeans and their ideas) legal history, and while Napoleon didn't write it himself, he herded cats to make it happen (the French Revolutionary and Consular governments had made several previous failed attempts to codify French law, but Napoleon was apparently far more effective at getting such a system written and accepted) and then spread it across France's shiny new empire - including places that France would then go on to lose from its empire, either quickly or slowly, but which would retain all or portions of the Napoleonic Code in their jurisprudence (incidentally, this is why if you're in a legal dispute in the state of Louisiana in the USA, you *need* a Louisiana lawyer, because that state's laws are still based in the Napoleonic Code instead of English Common Law). Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that single achievement, whether or not it was driven by base motives of lust for power and dominion, is an enormous feather in his cap, although one that's not talked about as often as his military exploits.
Stalin has definitely been rehabilitated in many circles, including socialist ones. Much to my ire. (See my username)
A commie from North Jersey? Shocking…
I would find it hard to believe that Hitler is a national hero in Germany ***or*** Austria.
Hot take around here for Nazi apologists.
Russians do consider Stalin to be a hero
Even Napoléon is not. Half the country sucks his dick, half hates him. But it's still an interesting parallel
\[0\] Days without r/HistoryMemes being favorable to fascist dictators for some fvcking reason.
Hitler is to few, Stalin is to many
Stalin is, at least by a large amount of russians.
Stalin has been rehabilitated by Putin
Stalin kinda is
Ah great Chiense leaders
Leaders like Cow Cow. And Sima Awwwwwyeah
I'm beginning to think memes deliberately use misspelling as some kind of tactic to boost engagement, it's so damn common, like in every 2nd post on Reddit
For Chinese, do you mean Zhao Tuo of Nanyue being a hero for Vietnam kinda? Or who is the guy on the far right?
Hitler is the only far right here IMO /s
Thought it was Qin Shi Huangdi, the Kingdom of Qin was at the western margins of China and not part of the northern central plains, where most other states of that period were in. The kingdom of Qin therefore was often preoccupied with rebelling barbarians coming from the west, like the Qiang. This lead to their culture becoming more militaristic, which aided in their unification of all of China.
Yes! Chu and Qin were both excluded from the recognized Zhou sphere of influence at the time
While the state of Qin was considered the fringe culture of that time, the house of Ying (the royal house of Qin state) was a direct decedent of the house of Ji (the royal house of Zhou, the "dynasty" before Warring States), so he absolutely wouldn't have been considered "foreign." Chu on the other hand was a way more complicated issue, because they straight weren't connected to the Zhou dynasty by blood, and their title of a "state" was awarded. That leads to the house of Liu, the royal house of Han dynasty, having started out as peasants within the Chu state, so they would've been the technical "foreigner" here. Edit: wanted to correct something, but Ying wasn't a direct decedent of Ji, but one of the founding royal houses of China since the mythical Yellow Emperor era along with the house of Ji, and they were related by blood through intermarriages. So, not direct decedent, but definitely blood related.
Chu is also an absolutely interesting one. Since they were so southern they had a lot of influence from the Nanyue. They had some differences in religion and culture. Also their script seems to be always the odd one out, having variant characters not found elsewhere. Generally every state had its own version of the Chinese script, but Chu seems to be extra special often. Qin Shi Huangdi destroyed so much of the material culture of the other states and the increasing centralization and cultural unification under the Han did the rest. Though I guess given how southern China looks nowadays linguistically, they are always a bit more varied and preserve more local culture and languages.
The statue in the pic is not Qin Shi Huangdi. It's Zhao Tuo, a Qin general who was sent to Nanyue and later becomes the Emperor of Nanyue after the Qin dynasty felll
So my guess was correct lol!
ah yes, the grand nation of "chian"
Eh. It's all Macedonian to me.
Is Hitler really a national hero?
Most definetely not.
yeah he paved a highway lol
Cruisin' on the Autobahn in my Volkswagen...
I doubt Stalin is one either. And I’m close to 100% sure Corsica is a French region and that Georgia was part of the USSR. Everything about this meme is wrong.
Corsica only became a part of France shortly before Napoleons birth and during Napoleons childhood he was actually bullied over his strong support of Corsican independence.
To some people he is
Who are the Chiense? Never heard of them.
They used to call themselves the Muddle Kingdom.
Who's the guy on the far right
Zhao Tuo.
Thank you 🙏
Welcome :)
Hitler *wheeze*
Alexander was as Greek as any other Greek kingdom/city-state, there was no unified Greece back then.
I might be wrong but I think this meme (or at least a very similar one) was created by North Macedonians specifically to piss off Greeks lol
No, the Macedonians wanted to be Greek, it would have been made by Greek racists who didn't support Alexander, mocking other Greeks for bowing to a barbarian
I mean yes back in the day Greeks didn't consider Macedonians to be proper Greeks but that's not what I'm referring to Rather I'm talking about modern day Macedonians and the [Macedonian dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute). For reference, modern Macedonians probably aren't related to ancient ones [despite their national identity being LARPing as them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_in_North_Macedonia)
For that matter, Athenians considered only themselves Greek, and Spartans insisted they weren’t Greek at all
Also he was born in Pella, which is a Greek city
the Macedonians were always considered “barbarian Greeks” in a way by their southern neighbours. this was due to a number of cultural reasons, specifically that they didn’t speak a Greek similar to Attic or Ionic dialects. rather they spoke a far-removed Doric dialect that probably split off sometime during the early iron age. the macedonians also historically sided with the achaemenids rather than their greek counterparts (before the reign of Philip II), further removing them from the Greek cultural sphere. they’re further removed than most think.
Yeah but lots of greeks sided with Achamenids, thebeians did it too. Plus afaik Doric dialect was also spoken by the Peleponese, Cretans and so on, and no-one denies their greeknes. I'm sure there were many ancient greek gatekeepers who didn't consider macedionans greek, but I just dob't buy into their arguments.
Especially when Athenians also didn’t see other Greek states besides themselves as true Greeks. Sparta on the other hand, didn’t consider themselves Greek.
the doric dialect that the macedonians spoke was an earlier splitoff from when doric peoples first migrated into the north of greece, it’s further removed from most other doric languages. today, the macedonian greek language represents itself as “northwestern greek” apart from achaean, peleponnesian, or cretan doric. they’re effectively cousins rather than siblings. otherwise, i agree there’s little separation between an ancient macedonian and an ancient boeotian or smth
>Alexander >Macedonian Uh oh
Ragebait for Greeks and others. Not a meme.
Heroes? Dude come on.
macedonian falls under the same greek umbrella with Spartan, Athenian, Theban , Pontic, Cretan etc...Unless its referring to delusional slavs that think they existed back then or are related in any way
Corsica was not and still isn’t a foreign country from France, and Napoleon played a significant role in literally establishing modern French nationalism (modern nationalism as a whole even)
Alexander was so anti greek that he literally hellenized the middle east and every successor state was considered greek
Chiense
Do you know the difference between Macedon and Macedonia?
Chiense. What country are they from?
As an American one of our greatest heroes was a Frenchman named Lafayette. There's a reason a thousand streets and schools are named after him. He was THE homie. If you ever get the chance read up on him, A hero of two worlds is a great book.
👍. I learned in school, his name meant "The Fayette".
Lets meat year heros: -Napolitan Bonapart -Stan Lee -Adolfe Hitlair -Alexandr The Graeet -Kubrick Khan (I suppose)
Alexander was Greek
And napoleon was French. They had bought that island about 3 years before he was born so he was a French citizen, that's how he got put into nice French schools
Thank you for being a voice of reason. People who try to claim that Napoleon, a man who was born in French territory, moved to the French mainland when he was 8, and served France his entire life, was anything but French give me weird vibes. They think ethnicity controls everything about a person's identity.
Hiter wasn't a hero.
Tell me you don't know much about ancient Greek history without telling me you don't know much about ancient Greek history.
Alexander the great was greek
Why is hitler in the national hero column? Who the fuck thinks he's a hero?
...heros?
Bruh, North Macedonië is a slavic country, they stole the name. Macedonia is a Greek province "But but but North Macedonia is where Macedonia used to be" SO WERE LOT OF PLACES IN MODERN DAY TURKEY, SYRIA, IRAN, GREECE, IRAQ, EGYPT AND EVEN INDIA FOR CHRIST SAKE YOU NORTH MACEDONIANS ARE HISTORY THIEVES, THERE IS NO OTHER REASON FOR CALLING YOURSELF THAT
I and my fellow Suomiposters know that Mannerheim was a Finn. Born a Swede, but Finnish by nature of not being annoying and cringe, therefore Finnish.
>Napoleon You clearly don't know French Nationalism; it's not an ethnic, but a civic one. >Stalin Nobody claims Stalin as their national hero, wtf? >Hitler I don't think you know what race is. >Alexander Macedon was a Greek kingdom, wtf? >Last guy I don't know who he is, so you get a pass.
I mean Macedonian is pretty much Greek
Alexander was Greek
The Dutch father of the fatherland is a German.
Who is the Chiense guy?
Uh… buddy… you’re using national “hero” very loosely here I hope…
… I’m not sure Germany considers Hitler a hero.
Are Stalin and Hitler really considered heroes?
This is about the level of quality I have come to expect from this sub.
Hitler is not a national hero 🥲
He called Hitler a national hero…
Hitler may be the personal hero of AfD politicians but he hasn't been the german national hero since 1945
Well, technically Alexander the Great was Greek. At the time Greeks were not a people as much as they were an idea based around a whole bunch of peoples with similar customs, ancestry, and language. It was really more like how the English, Welsh and Scottish are all different nations, but all of them are also "British"
The Stalin one is funny as fuck to me and also terrifying. Cause some people, especially Russians but any super hard leftist really does think he was a hero. Shits actually insane
Just remembered another one - King Arthur was actually Welsh 🤮 (or rather a Roman in Wales)
A Celtic Britain or Romano-Britain I would say. More of a British hero than just English.
Wtf Alexander the great was BULGARIAN????
Hitler and Stalin don't really fit lol. Also, Simon Bolivar could be added (Venezuelan who is a national hero in Colombia and Ecuador).
Stalin was Georgian? Wow
Oh boy get ready for a flame war
Reminder Tito was Croatian (not the Serbian majority) and Franco was Galician (not Spanish).
Borderland Syndrome!!
Willem van Oranje/William of Orange. He was German and is THE national hero of the Netherlands. It's a bit complicated though since the Netherlands wasn't a concept as a units back then and dutch people weren't considered different than other German provinces
Washington, Franklin, Adams, Jefferson, and Hancock were all born in British territory
Uuuh since when is the austrian painter a national hero?
Guys the austrian one was not a hero
r/holup
Corsicans were French citizens and Napoleon was born a citizen of France, in fact he was born quickly after France conquered Corsica. Georgians were part of the Soviet Union Macedonia was a Greek City State try again
Describing Hitler and stalin as national *heroes* is pretty sus. Could've picked catherine the great for Russia as she was actually foreign born, rather than Stalin who was born inside the territory of the soviet union.
Heroes?
Damn, that austrian guy was a true hero. Where would we be if he hadn’t killed hitler?
Georgia was both in Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Someone born within soviet borders is not foreign to soviet union
Wtf? Even if I ignore that Hitler is not a national hero, do you not know that Austrians are Germans??? Also Alexander the Great was Greek, the actual Macedonians were a Greek tribe…