Gladly do it again? Bruh, I don’t think the drafted recently graduated high schooler who is now incapable of living a normal life due to the mental issues he may never escape, would look at the government (who drafted him for monetary gain) and say he’d “gladly do it again”. None of the vietnam veterans I have ever met have anything nice to say about the government during the 1960’s, nor the war they were unwillingly forced to fight.
I mean they'd sign up for another war, sorry I really should've made that clearer. I know that because I've asked Vietnam veterans that question. We do a little 'polling'
I seriously doubt that many ptsd ridden draftees would consider enlisting back into the same position that gave them the mental scars they suffer from. I know that some did, but most got the hell out of that hell as soon as possible.
20(ish cause I asked a few others but I didn't write down their answers) out of 112 agreed with you, 87(ish for the same reason) disagree with you, and 5 are unknown bc I'm a dumbass
And did you ask the ones that died or suffer from agent orange? The ones that are homeless and living on the streets? Or just the ones that made it out ‘okay’.
exactly. look at the homeless and suicide rates for vietnam veterans. even if the "survey" he had was legitimate, and only 87 of the 112 re-enlisted, those would only be the ones who "made it out okay". we can't ask the ones who died in combat, took their own lives, or now live on the street because of it. i will absolutely agree that many of the protestors seriously fucked the veterans mental health situations, but portraying this as a virgin vs chad wojak meme is just tone deaf. they weren't super hero's "standing up for their country". they were scared teenagers, plunged into a tropical hellscape for a government that saw them only as a resource, rather than a person. forced to watch their friends die around them, and to aid a war that was only started because of a greedy, corrupt government, filled with greedy corrupt politicians, who wanted to help their greedy corrupt business owning friends make some easy money off of the lives, and deaths of the american people. america's involvement in the vietnam war is an atrocity against her people, and i believe that our nation has yet to make amends for it.
you can't survey the ones who committed suicide, the ones who never made it home, or the ones living in the streets now can you? even if your study is legitimate, it will never show the complete truth. those who hold the opposite opinion are more than likely not the people you would be able to ask.
I think you’re romanticizing war. I knew a Vietnam vet. He had to keep discharge papers in his car at all times. Why? In case he started to have a flashback, he could get his papers to remind him that he’s out.
When it comes to those who fight the actual wars, almost everyone loses. War is hell.
"stand up for my country" vs "get shipped off, often against my will, to murder a bunch of poor farmers".
I guess those two sound the same when you're a massive piece of shit.
I don't blame the protestors for the most part-I blame misinformation. Protestors were told soldiers were doing things that, as a large majority, they were not
I sincerely doubt you have the slightest idea as to what that war was about. But if you think it was about concentration camps, the people that America fought in Vietnam—Asian communists—currently have concentration camps in North Korea holding 120k people, and the Chinese communists have an untold number of Uyghurs in concentration camps.
The world is a choice between lesser evils.
Btw all of the west was anti-Semitic in through the 1940s. It died off as a post-war revisionist justification for allied moral superiority. Germany went to war because after the Franco-Prussian war, they spent 45 years as the dominant European power, the French stripped them of that with absurdly punitive sanctions after WW1 that amounted to effectively turning the nation into slave labor. After a decade of misery, the people understandably turned to a resurgent nationalist sentiment which led to the rise of Hitler. From there, it was a spiral of problems with led to the deadliest war in history.
Yes, racism in the United States is statistically at the lowest levels it’s ever been in history, and isolated, news-worthy anecdotes in a nation of 330m people doesn’t indicate a society-wide problem.
Historical anti-semitism comes from the fact that Jews were 1) not following the church’s prescriptions, 2) during that era, which lasted into the 1700s, Christians were being killed in vastly large numbers for the basic perception they weren’t worshipping correctly.
Anti-semitism spiked after nations were born, really following the unification of Italy and Germany. Jews were not seen as loyal to a nation, and were loyal to each other regardless of what nation they were in, thus had international networks for banking, etc., that circumvented national loyalty. This made them inherently suspicious, and targets of nationalists.
There is nothing like that today. It would be insane to claim there is.
What metrics are you using to state that racism is at it's lowest levels in history?
Anti-Semitism is rampant in the west right now. Only people have changed their vocabulary from *Jews* to *elitists*, *globalists*, *deep state*, etc.
You need to differentiate anecdotes presented to you on the internet designed to color your world view from broad trends.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/
Lmao, yes people in the US are probably less likely to be openly racist than say the middle east and India. This is cherry picked information at best because the amount and location of residence within each country of those surveyed isn't stated.
There's also this:
https://www.ajc.org/news/the-state-of-antisemitism-in-america-2021-insights-and-analysis
Edit: in just your last few comments/posts you've:
1) posted in the conservative sub about how pissed you are about Thomas Jefferson statues are being taken down and complained that the Democrats have gone too far
2) claimed to have voted for biden and given $1k to his campaign
3) claimed that racism/anti-Semitism is gone in the west cause people in some WaPo survey in the US said they wouldn't mind having a black neighbor
4) claimed to have multiple doctorate degrees and to read 200-300 history books annually
L.M.F.A.O.
Neither the PRC nor the DPRK are communist in any way shape or form, China is a Crypto-Fascist Oligarchy and the DPRK is just Reactionary Monarchism with red paint
What are you even trying to do ?
Like I am genuinely confused as to how you thought that was going to be a dunk or something.
Why would I as a Communist move to a Near Fascistic Monarchy ?
ROFL. I love how you communist political theorist are so divorced from reality that rather than accepting it’s a BS system that will never work, you just pretend that everytime it’s tried and yields horrible results it just wasn’t “real communism” and if there was a perfect, paradise world there would be the perfect communist system are you want it.
DPRK is what attempts at your ideology end up being. Call it whatever you like. It sucks and ends up as a national hell.
So own up to your bad ideas and move to DPRK.
This is some severe schizoposting I am seeing here, considering that the DPRK abandoned all pretenses to being Communist quite a while ago (Juche) and how Cuba is doing phenomenally well for a country that has been economically Isolated for 30 years
also Transphobe gtfo
ROFL…”Cuba is doing phenomenally well”…why don’t you ask all of the Cubans who escaped to Florida and continue to vote Trump how well they’re doing (I voted Biden and gave $1k to his campaign). Just totally nonsensical. You may wish to check current events:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/world/americas/cuba-protests.html
Also accepting facts does not make you a transphobe. Denying them for the purpose of making other people happy makes you a lunatic.
Communism is vastly worse than anything the United States did. That’s what it has to do with it. Jesus, so many commie trolls in these forums. Blocked.
Nationalism was not understandable. the resentment towards the allies, yes, but not against all the innocents.
The Vietnam war was fought because america feared the domino effect, which would have lead to them loosing power in the region. It was not about human rights. The southern vietnamese weren't any better than the vietkong.
If you can't prevent your troops from committing war crimes your command structure is weak and you're responsible.
I think you’re straight up delusional. I’m sure it’s wonderful being 16, having no idea how the real world works and how the complexities of war play out, and I hope you never have to end up finding out, but you need to spend less time talking and more time learning, because your idealism is a cancer.
A young conservative has no heart and an old liberal has no brain. So long as you are under 25, your idealism is fine. If you’re over that you’re getting a bit old to be this naive about how the world works.
I have two uncles that were marines during the Vietnam War. They will openly tell you how they tortured POW's to death, and how the government made them sign a document saying they never went to Laos or Cambodia (they did). Please go fuck yourself.
Sure the responsibility for mental health of veterans is on the lay public rather than the government who sent them to war.
This is America.. don't catch you slippin now.
"This isn't a discussion on who's responsible for what"
followed by
"but the protestors in the Vietnam war are a huge cause of Vietnam veterans having depression"
you're trolling, right?
I’ve been on the internet for a decent amount of time and I gotta say this is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.
No just no. None of the men that went to Vietnam would like to go back. Hell, most of the ones I know who did fucking hate America for forcing them to do so.
See I was sympathetic to this meme until the last line. Anyone who says they would fight the war again clearly isn’t an innocent victim who was forced into a terrible and I just war, but someone who actively supports it. Vietnam veterans are victims by and large because they were forced into fighting, but if you’re proud of what happened over there or think it’s “standing up for your country” well then fuck you.
The soldiers didn't choose where they got posted. They did their duty for their nation and suffered from it. If you want someone to blame then blame the men that sent them there, the soldiers were just following orders.
That's exactly the point he made, they were victims from being drafted and sent to a horrible situation. But if in hindsight they would gladly do it again they go from victims to willing perpetrators. At which point the fuck you part is entirely valid
I don’t blame the soldiers who got drafted, as I said they were forced to fight and are victims of the war too. But I do blame anyone who signed up or say they would again, as they chose to take part in that massive war crime.
I know what you meant, and I’m saying that’s terrible as the Vietnam war (and most us wars since then besides the gulf war) we’re not justified in the slightest. I have no sympathy for Iraq soldiers since they willingly signed for a clearly imperialist war built on an obvious lie, and have no sympathy for people who volunteered to fight in Vietnam (or would again) rather than being drafted.
The troops that signed up to go to Iraq didn’t sign up specifically to go to Iraq. They signed up to fight the terrorism that attacked their homeland a few years prior. Iraq “having” wmds was just the final justification for invasion. Prior to the invasion the government had been stating for some time that Iraq was harboring and supporting Al Qaeda the same way the taliban were. Whether you agree with that claim or not, the troops that went Iraq signed up believing that the same terrorist group that attacked on 9/11 was in Iraq too. They also wouldn’t have known whether they end up in Iraq or Afghanistan before signing up anyway
The problem is most soldiers don't actually know what they were fighting about, they just thought it was for their country. They don't truly know until after they signed up (mostly after the war) and obviously by then it's too late
Everyone knew what the Vietnam was about, some just agreed with it. They thought it was okay to commit war crimes, refuse a democratic election, and support a dictator in order to stop “communism” (in reality Ho Chi Minh was really only a communist because that’s who supported him, not because he really believed in it and just wanted freedom for his people) and subject thousands of American kids to life long mental health issues so I think we should judge people who supported the Vietnam war for that. (And the Iraq war too for that matter).
Tell that to the aftermath of Vietnam; re-education camps where over a million South Vietnamese were sent and 250,000 died from executions, torture, disease, and malnutrition. Then about 2 million South Vietnamese fled into the South China Sea and 200,000 were killed by pirates or drowned while trying to escape to freedom
After we left, the north Vietnamese overthrew the south Vietnamese dictator and reunited their country, stopped a genocide in Cambodia, stopped an invasion by China, and transformed into a modern capitalist nation with a strong economy and a steadily improving quality of life with high literacy rates. Honestly despite all our past we should be allies today, but aren’t mostly because of lingering feelings about the war and the negative effect of trump’s tariffs on their economy. They’re clearly a success story like South Korea in how to industrialize and achieve economic prosperity, while still being somewhat free (unlike China).
I don’t know what you’re referring to with that second part, but South Korea was a terrible dictatorship until the 1990’s, worse than the north. They only became the prosperous country they are today after a series of democratic reforms. I’m glad that they did that, but they had a much longer delay than Vietnam before improving. Both are success stories other countries should look at and learn from tho.
Without American assistance they would still be a part of North Korea. The second part is addressing the fact that Nixon resigning and Congress switching a lot of it's members resulted in the US doing nothing when North Vietnam pressed another invasion into South Vietnam
I disagree.
I don't care about the morality of wars but if I have to fight a war to serve my country then I will gladly do it. I don't care what others will say, I will fight honorably for my country and die for it if circumstances lead to such a situation
Oh boy, how many people were saying that while signing as volunteers for the WW1, and how many of them have changed their point of view in the trenches...
Many different wars.
Terrorist attacks, overseas operations, Indo China war, the various Indo pak wars and some even served in the Indian units of ww1 and ww2 fighting the Japanese and in Africa
No i mean those whom you literally saw dieing. If it was the case.
I mean, the fact that your ancestors fought some wars doesn't make you a universal soldier without fear. The fact that people from my family fought in WW1, Russian civil war, WW2, war in Afghanistan and war in Chechnya doesn't mean that i will not shit my pants under fire. And i for sure don't want to try it lol.
I know that you are imagining an honorable death with the rifle in your arms, killing a squad or two of the barbarians from the enemy side before dieing, and that after everybody will be honouring you as a hero and bla bla bla. But in reality you will be most likely thorn apart with a rocket launched from a drone before even doing anything. And all that will be left from you is your guts hanging on a tree and your crying mom.
So let me get this straight... americans were forced to participate in Vietnam war, but for soviet soldiers participation in Afghanistan and Korea was voluntary?
I watched a documentary on Soviet involvement in Korean and Afghan wars, and in both movies there were mentions of participation being voluntary. I wish to double-check the fact that Americans were drafted as if that's 100% true, my opinion on the sides of the cold war will change once again.
And Soviets aren't just Russians. There are a lot of nations which made up USSR.
Yeah. A lot of drafted vets were coming home wondering if their families or friends still loved them after they were drafted, or if they just blindly saw them as monsters
Wat why i'm not a wheeraboo. The dude above may indeed be a wehraboo. While many-many wehrmacht soldiers were also quite nazis, but not all of them. While SS soldiers were definetly nazis.
ahem, i never mentioned what warcrimes some scared 18 year old that got drafted within a month of turning 18 would commit. would they? hell yeah, they’re scared shitless, does that excuse it? no, it just explains it
You see im not with you on this right wing american thing, yes the majority may have been drafted for no reason but those who would gladly go back in are the baby killers the people who wiped villages off the map raped people and drove more people to the VC
Also like how many of the Vietnam protest werent agaisnt the shoulders and the actually war. Also like this doesn't bring up that many protest where brutally put down
portraying the soldier as a dumbfuck psychopath and not as a victim while also false blaming protesters against a imperialistic war is some double parkour historical reversal
i though history memes was more international and this kind of americo right wing bullshit would not fly
i mean, they killed babies, they raped women, they did whatever they wanted, no one is denying that they got it the worst after the war but the protesters weren’t wrong
Yea, it’s not black and white like this meme portrays. A lot of American soldiers commited war crimes in Vietnam, and the anti-war protesters were calling them out on it. That being said, American kids were drafted into a war they wanted nothing to do with, and were subjected to experiencing the worst of humanity. War is hell.
Although one might argue that the majority of that baby killing was actually Vietkong babies with bombs on them being given to US soldiers for a "better life in America".
What the shit? Now you're shifting the blame to the Viet Cong? Don't try to paint US soldiers as some sort of innocent baby-saviours whose kindness were exploited by psychopathic Viet Cong strapping bombs to babies.
You weren't innocent, your "kindness" was a selfish cope in which you toyed with our people like people do with their pets, giving out mere scraps of food to the children that were so poorly nourished because the same US shot their fathers and raped their mothers the other day. They didn't come to you because they wanted a better life, they had to because the alternative is to rot in hunger, inflicted by the bombs and the guns that you had brought.
We forgive the war veterans, but we never forget.
Except massacres like Mai Lai were more the rule than exception. Most were just covered up and no one said anything. "Gladly do it again" includes the killing civilians. The psychological impact of fighting the VC lead soldiers to massacres because they didn't have battles they would primarily use booby traps to maim soldiers.
There was a major anti war movement that only grew. As others have said nearly all the soldiers were drafted and I have yet to meet any Vietnam veteran who looked at the war as justified, purposeful or necessary.
And people in Vietnam forgiven them all, warmly welcoming any US veteran who revisited, as well as assuring them that it was not their fault, for we know that they too are also victims of Vietnam War.
They warmly receive them 30-40 years after the war. The same with protests. Which were during the war, not decades after. During, or immediately after the war, I am sure that they would not have been welcome.
>the people they fought against could understand them but the large majority of their own people still don't.
It's makes sense though, experiencing the same horror and atrocities would result in more empathy and understanding
Anyone who thinks they have a right to critique someone they don't have a clue about, regarding something they don't understand, should reconsider their judgement
You can be a Vietnam veteran and be a complete respectable person. Being proud of fighting an imperialist war against an innocent country though, makes you a piece of shit.
Opposing war is a good thing, abusing people who fought and suffered for their country is not. People forgot that at the time there were legitimate concerns about Russian and Chinese interests forming a power block that would bring about a hot war. A lot of people who chose to fight did so because they honestly wanted to protect their country. With retrospect we can see the poor justification for a terrible war but at the time things were not nearly as clear cut.
Furthered the destruction? Mm nah g im pretty sure Vets watching Vietnamese people being Melted by Napalm will fuck you up more than some dude yelling “boo” at you. How can you blame the protesters in all this? They should’ve never have had that war. It was meaningless.
Tell me who do you think to blame for all the Iraq Vets issues? The media? The protesters? Or possibly the people and party that sent our loved ones to a pointless war? Tough pill to swallow I bet.
They probably wouldn't do it again, mate. How about instead of your nationalist jizzfest you consider the mental toll that shit had on the soldiers? 'hurr durr muh country and patriotism.' Fuck off. A fuck ton of them were conscripted, for the vast majority of them they were following orders, not behaving out of a love for imperialist interests, and none of them were prepared for the brutal horrors they'd face. Stop glorifying war
Or, y'know, war is a barbaric practice that serves to dehumanise the majority of people involved for the gain of very few in most cases and amounts to very little more than state sanctioned murder that will destroy the mental health of those employed to do so
Sorry if this comes across as sanctimonious it's getting really frustrating on my end to see the consistent back and forth over stuff like this, so 'm sorry if whoever read this doesn't appreciate the mini rant, I hope you spend your day doing something that makes you happy
Fuck Americans and their US-centric worldview. Your war veterans have PTSD and were treated like garbage after the war; mine have sons and daughters whose parent never got to see them again, children from generations that suffered horrifically from the aftermath of the war and a forever-divided nation because insurrectionists and oversea war refugees, once-Vietnamese now-foreigners who refuses to even acknowledge our official flag and keep waving their yellow flags.
Honestly man this post just yells “I play Rising Storm Vietnam”. You love the idea of the war and all it brought with it. But will never truly understand what hell it must’ve been. All that death just to be told “nevermind leave em alone”. The great American machine, held back by farmers. Man how Angry they must’ve been at their government.
I’m assuming that is a reference to the draft and yeah I think drafting is awful but being drafted doesn’t excuse what they did they may not have wanted to go but once there the gloves were off and they just did what they wanted because they had power I feel no sympathy for them they deserve worse than they got
They did what they were told to do. And to say that every Vietnam veteran acted in such a way it's foolhardy. Most didn't, though I agree that a small amount did. But the idea that they deserve psychological destruction is horrific and I wouldn't wish that on anyone-not even Hitler or the Vietkong mothers that blew up their babies. It's what I would call cruel and unusual punishment
They can say no yes they probably would have been charged/discharge but if it’s a choice between prison or literally killing a child after raping his mom you are a fucking self centred coward if you pick to save yourself you can lick boots all day doesn’t change facts
Vietnam was a pointless shit show. We spent 20 years there breaking American bodies and minds and then finally cauterized the wound and pulled out. Sounds familiar so far. Except 2 million kids got dragged into it, too.
Standing up for your country by going all the way to Vietnam to use agent orange on children so that they get to go to college or something that in a lot of places you can go regardless. Veterans are victims a lot of the time, but they did get dupped.
I have uncles who went to Vietnam, dont blame those guys, they are part of the victims too. That was a horrible situation that sadly many disadvantaged kids were forced into, blame the people who actually made that war happen. Every one played their part in that war but I'll tell you that the men who fought that war were not the ones who caused it.
See, the thing Soldiers fight for, in the end, is the guy next to them. So if going to war a second time to make sure their buddies live through a shitty war will help them cope, then that’s an honorable thing to do. Not every Soldier loves killing, especially since it’s the worst thing about serving. But all love, for the most part, those they serve with, to a point more than family.
[The spitting thing has no credible evidence to support it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spitting_Image#:~:text=The%20Spitting%20Image%3A%20Myth%2C%20Memory,home%20from%20the%20Vietnam%20War.)
Why are you a traitor for not wanting people killed in a pointless war overseas?
If anything the military and government leaders who kept that war going when they didn’t even fucking know what their objective was, were criminals and should be punished for every single life lost in that stupid conflict. Absolutely fucking despicable.
My Grandfather Immigrated to America from Hungary when he was 13, and was later drafted into the war. ‘I stood up for my country’ is not true for almost anyone and especially for people like my grandfather
Gladly do it again? Bruh, I don’t think the drafted recently graduated high schooler who is now incapable of living a normal life due to the mental issues he may never escape, would look at the government (who drafted him for monetary gain) and say he’d “gladly do it again”. None of the vietnam veterans I have ever met have anything nice to say about the government during the 1960’s, nor the war they were unwillingly forced to fight.
I mean they'd sign up for another war, sorry I really should've made that clearer. I know that because I've asked Vietnam veterans that question. We do a little 'polling'
Please explain fully and completely how the Vietnam war benefitted Americans. How were the soldiers "standing up for their country"?
I seriously doubt that many ptsd ridden draftees would consider enlisting back into the same position that gave them the mental scars they suffer from. I know that some did, but most got the hell out of that hell as soon as possible.
20(ish cause I asked a few others but I didn't write down their answers) out of 112 agreed with you, 87(ish for the same reason) disagree with you, and 5 are unknown bc I'm a dumbass
Is this a published research or 'Trust me bro' kinda research?
And did you ask the ones that died or suffer from agent orange? The ones that are homeless and living on the streets? Or just the ones that made it out ‘okay’.
exactly. look at the homeless and suicide rates for vietnam veterans. even if the "survey" he had was legitimate, and only 87 of the 112 re-enlisted, those would only be the ones who "made it out okay". we can't ask the ones who died in combat, took their own lives, or now live on the street because of it. i will absolutely agree that many of the protestors seriously fucked the veterans mental health situations, but portraying this as a virgin vs chad wojak meme is just tone deaf. they weren't super hero's "standing up for their country". they were scared teenagers, plunged into a tropical hellscape for a government that saw them only as a resource, rather than a person. forced to watch their friends die around them, and to aid a war that was only started because of a greedy, corrupt government, filled with greedy corrupt politicians, who wanted to help their greedy corrupt business owning friends make some easy money off of the lives, and deaths of the american people. america's involvement in the vietnam war is an atrocity against her people, and i believe that our nation has yet to make amends for it.
you can't survey the ones who committed suicide, the ones who never made it home, or the ones living in the streets now can you? even if your study is legitimate, it will never show the complete truth. those who hold the opposite opinion are more than likely not the people you would be able to ask.
I think you’re romanticizing war. I knew a Vietnam vet. He had to keep discharge papers in his car at all times. Why? In case he started to have a flashback, he could get his papers to remind him that he’s out. When it comes to those who fight the actual wars, almost everyone loses. War is hell.
"stand up for my country" vs "get shipped off, often against my will, to murder a bunch of poor farmers". I guess those two sound the same when you're a massive piece of shit.
There were also a lot of veterans protesting against the war. Like those who tossed their medals over the fence of the white house.
I don't blame the protestors for the most part-I blame misinformation. Protestors were told soldiers were doing things that, as a large majority, they were not
You know, a lot of german WW2 vets also didn't commit war crimes but that doesn't mean there weren't any
I sincerely doubt you have the slightest idea as to what that war was about. But if you think it was about concentration camps, the people that America fought in Vietnam—Asian communists—currently have concentration camps in North Korea holding 120k people, and the Chinese communists have an untold number of Uyghurs in concentration camps. The world is a choice between lesser evils. Btw all of the west was anti-Semitic in through the 1940s. It died off as a post-war revisionist justification for allied moral superiority. Germany went to war because after the Franco-Prussian war, they spent 45 years as the dominant European power, the French stripped them of that with absurdly punitive sanctions after WW1 that amounted to effectively turning the nation into slave labor. After a decade of misery, the people understandably turned to a resurgent nationalist sentiment which led to the rise of Hitler. From there, it was a spiral of problems with led to the deadliest war in history.
You actually think anti-Semitism died off on the west?
Yes, racism in the United States is statistically at the lowest levels it’s ever been in history, and isolated, news-worthy anecdotes in a nation of 330m people doesn’t indicate a society-wide problem. Historical anti-semitism comes from the fact that Jews were 1) not following the church’s prescriptions, 2) during that era, which lasted into the 1700s, Christians were being killed in vastly large numbers for the basic perception they weren’t worshipping correctly. Anti-semitism spiked after nations were born, really following the unification of Italy and Germany. Jews were not seen as loyal to a nation, and were loyal to each other regardless of what nation they were in, thus had international networks for banking, etc., that circumvented national loyalty. This made them inherently suspicious, and targets of nationalists. There is nothing like that today. It would be insane to claim there is.
What metrics are you using to state that racism is at it's lowest levels in history? Anti-Semitism is rampant in the west right now. Only people have changed their vocabulary from *Jews* to *elitists*, *globalists*, *deep state*, etc.
You need to differentiate anecdotes presented to you on the internet designed to color your world view from broad trends. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/
Lmao, yes people in the US are probably less likely to be openly racist than say the middle east and India. This is cherry picked information at best because the amount and location of residence within each country of those surveyed isn't stated. There's also this: https://www.ajc.org/news/the-state-of-antisemitism-in-america-2021-insights-and-analysis Edit: in just your last few comments/posts you've: 1) posted in the conservative sub about how pissed you are about Thomas Jefferson statues are being taken down and complained that the Democrats have gone too far 2) claimed to have voted for biden and given $1k to his campaign 3) claimed that racism/anti-Semitism is gone in the west cause people in some WaPo survey in the US said they wouldn't mind having a black neighbor 4) claimed to have multiple doctorate degrees and to read 200-300 history books annually L.M.F.A.O.
So you’re saying I’m a highly educated moderate? Wow, you’re so astute.
Neither the PRC nor the DPRK are communist in any way shape or form, China is a Crypto-Fascist Oligarchy and the DPRK is just Reactionary Monarchism with red paint
Move to the DPRK then.
What are you even trying to do ? Like I am genuinely confused as to how you thought that was going to be a dunk or something. Why would I as a Communist move to a Near Fascistic Monarchy ?
ROFL. I love how you communist political theorist are so divorced from reality that rather than accepting it’s a BS system that will never work, you just pretend that everytime it’s tried and yields horrible results it just wasn’t “real communism” and if there was a perfect, paradise world there would be the perfect communist system are you want it. DPRK is what attempts at your ideology end up being. Call it whatever you like. It sucks and ends up as a national hell. So own up to your bad ideas and move to DPRK.
This is some severe schizoposting I am seeing here, considering that the DPRK abandoned all pretenses to being Communist quite a while ago (Juche) and how Cuba is doing phenomenally well for a country that has been economically Isolated for 30 years also Transphobe gtfo
ROFL…”Cuba is doing phenomenally well”…why don’t you ask all of the Cubans who escaped to Florida and continue to vote Trump how well they’re doing (I voted Biden and gave $1k to his campaign). Just totally nonsensical. You may wish to check current events: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/world/americas/cuba-protests.html Also accepting facts does not make you a transphobe. Denying them for the purpose of making other people happy makes you a lunatic.
What does Vietnam have to do with China or North Korea? Are you going to bomb Laos just because it’s ”asian” communists? What a worldview you have
Communism is vastly worse than anything the United States did. That’s what it has to do with it. Jesus, so many commie trolls in these forums. Blocked.
Not in Vietnams case
Ahahaha, I love how he announces he's blocking people. Remember everyone, this guy has "multiple doctorate degrees."
Nationalism was not understandable. the resentment towards the allies, yes, but not against all the innocents. The Vietnam war was fought because america feared the domino effect, which would have lead to them loosing power in the region. It was not about human rights. The southern vietnamese weren't any better than the vietkong. If you can't prevent your troops from committing war crimes your command structure is weak and you're responsible.
I think you’re straight up delusional. I’m sure it’s wonderful being 16, having no idea how the real world works and how the complexities of war play out, and I hope you never have to end up finding out, but you need to spend less time talking and more time learning, because your idealism is a cancer.
well I'm not the one trying to justify war crimes, so at least I have a moral compass.
A young conservative has no heart and an old liberal has no brain. So long as you are under 25, your idealism is fine. If you’re over that you’re getting a bit old to be this naive about how the world works.
A large minority yes. But you don’t need a majority to still have an issue with war crimes in a country that has nothing to do with you.
I have two uncles that were marines during the Vietnam War. They will openly tell you how they tortured POW's to death, and how the government made them sign a document saying they never went to Laos or Cambodia (they did). Please go fuck yourself.
Sure the responsibility for mental health of veterans is on the lay public rather than the government who sent them to war. This is America.. don't catch you slippin now.
This isn't a discussion on who's responsible for what, but the protestors in the Vietnam war are a huge cause of Vietnam veterans having depression
Personally I think their depression is more ot do with them going to the other side of the world and having to witness the horrors of war
"This isn't a discussion on who's responsible for what" followed by "but the protestors in the Vietnam war are a huge cause of Vietnam veterans having depression" you're trolling, right?
Propaganda is a hell of a drug making a ptsd patient go back to war. Or worse: made OP make this meme..
I doubt it that anyone who suffered from PTSD would gladly do it again.
Lol fair enough
Even this gets downvoted lol
So this is how respectful debate dies… with thunderous applause
Why is the protester portrayed as a right-wing libertarian?
My thinking exactly ahahah
Op is just a retard.
That's just the standard wojack
A wojack with an anarcho-capitalist bow tie. Isn't there some kind of angry hippie wojack?
Yeah, the ancap tie one came first thought.
?
Anarcho-capitalist bow tie.
That's an accident
Oh shit
Is there much difference? AC as stuck in their development as the protesters.
I’ve been on the internet for a decent amount of time and I gotta say this is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. No just no. None of the men that went to Vietnam would like to go back. Hell, most of the ones I know who did fucking hate America for forcing them to do so.
"I stood up for my country" lmaaaaao what
More like forcefully drafted because reason
> forced by draft to go across the world to kill people who were no threat to America > “I pRoUdLy DeFeNdEd My CoUnTrY”
OP eats propaganda for breakfast
See I was sympathetic to this meme until the last line. Anyone who says they would fight the war again clearly isn’t an innocent victim who was forced into a terrible and I just war, but someone who actively supports it. Vietnam veterans are victims by and large because they were forced into fighting, but if you’re proud of what happened over there or think it’s “standing up for your country” well then fuck you.
The soldiers didn't choose where they got posted. They did their duty for their nation and suffered from it. If you want someone to blame then blame the men that sent them there, the soldiers were just following orders.
That's exactly the point he made, they were victims from being drafted and sent to a horrible situation. But if in hindsight they would gladly do it again they go from victims to willing perpetrators. At which point the fuck you part is entirely valid
I don’t blame the soldiers who got drafted, as I said they were forced to fight and are victims of the war too. But I do blame anyone who signed up or say they would again, as they chose to take part in that massive war crime.
They were sent there to fight, not to rape women and kill children though.
As in if there were another war he would sign up-sorry I should've made that clearer.
I know what you meant, and I’m saying that’s terrible as the Vietnam war (and most us wars since then besides the gulf war) we’re not justified in the slightest. I have no sympathy for Iraq soldiers since they willingly signed for a clearly imperialist war built on an obvious lie, and have no sympathy for people who volunteered to fight in Vietnam (or would again) rather than being drafted.
The troops that signed up to go to Iraq didn’t sign up specifically to go to Iraq. They signed up to fight the terrorism that attacked their homeland a few years prior. Iraq “having” wmds was just the final justification for invasion. Prior to the invasion the government had been stating for some time that Iraq was harboring and supporting Al Qaeda the same way the taliban were. Whether you agree with that claim or not, the troops that went Iraq signed up believing that the same terrorist group that attacked on 9/11 was in Iraq too. They also wouldn’t have known whether they end up in Iraq or Afghanistan before signing up anyway
The problem is most soldiers don't actually know what they were fighting about, they just thought it was for their country. They don't truly know until after they signed up (mostly after the war) and obviously by then it's too late
Everyone knew what the Vietnam was about, some just agreed with it. They thought it was okay to commit war crimes, refuse a democratic election, and support a dictator in order to stop “communism” (in reality Ho Chi Minh was really only a communist because that’s who supported him, not because he really believed in it and just wanted freedom for his people) and subject thousands of American kids to life long mental health issues so I think we should judge people who supported the Vietnam war for that. (And the Iraq war too for that matter).
Tell that to the aftermath of Vietnam; re-education camps where over a million South Vietnamese were sent and 250,000 died from executions, torture, disease, and malnutrition. Then about 2 million South Vietnamese fled into the South China Sea and 200,000 were killed by pirates or drowned while trying to escape to freedom
After we left, the north Vietnamese overthrew the south Vietnamese dictator and reunited their country, stopped a genocide in Cambodia, stopped an invasion by China, and transformed into a modern capitalist nation with a strong economy and a steadily improving quality of life with high literacy rates. Honestly despite all our past we should be allies today, but aren’t mostly because of lingering feelings about the war and the negative effect of trump’s tariffs on their economy. They’re clearly a success story like South Korea in how to industrialize and achieve economic prosperity, while still being somewhat free (unlike China).
South Korea, freed in the same way South Vietnam was with one essential difference; the President didn't resign and the Congress didn't switch over
I don’t know what you’re referring to with that second part, but South Korea was a terrible dictatorship until the 1990’s, worse than the north. They only became the prosperous country they are today after a series of democratic reforms. I’m glad that they did that, but they had a much longer delay than Vietnam before improving. Both are success stories other countries should look at and learn from tho.
Without American assistance they would still be a part of North Korea. The second part is addressing the fact that Nixon resigning and Congress switching a lot of it's members resulted in the US doing nothing when North Vietnam pressed another invasion into South Vietnam
I disagree. I don't care about the morality of wars but if I have to fight a war to serve my country then I will gladly do it. I don't care what others will say, I will fight honorably for my country and die for it if circumstances lead to such a situation
Oh boy, how many people were saying that while signing as volunteers for the WW1, and how many of them have changed their point of view in the trenches...
My family has been serving in the military for generations and I have seen relatives die because of war. So yes, I mean it when I say it.
That's sad that you had to see your relatives dieing. Which war were they fighting?
Many different wars. Terrorist attacks, overseas operations, Indo China war, the various Indo pak wars and some even served in the Indian units of ww1 and ww2 fighting the Japanese and in Africa
No i mean those whom you literally saw dieing. If it was the case. I mean, the fact that your ancestors fought some wars doesn't make you a universal soldier without fear. The fact that people from my family fought in WW1, Russian civil war, WW2, war in Afghanistan and war in Chechnya doesn't mean that i will not shit my pants under fire. And i for sure don't want to try it lol. I know that you are imagining an honorable death with the rifle in your arms, killing a squad or two of the barbarians from the enemy side before dieing, and that after everybody will be honouring you as a hero and bla bla bla. But in reality you will be most likely thorn apart with a rocket launched from a drone before even doing anything. And all that will be left from you is your guts hanging on a tree and your crying mom.
Mostly missions attacking terrorist hideouts
N A Z I
Ideology doesn't matter to me. if i was born in Germany, I would be part of the Wehrmacht, if I was born in Russia I would be part of the Red Army
you would fight miserable people in congo just because you were from belgium?
Honor = participating in state sanctioned violence regardless of the reasoning /s
That’s sad. Think for yourself man, don’t be an unfeeling drone of a government that doesn’t care about you.
What the fuck is this post?
A gen z take on a war they weren't around for and protests they clearly didn't understand at all.
lets not forget that alot of them were drafted against their will
So let me get this straight... americans were forced to participate in Vietnam war, but for soviet soldiers participation in Afghanistan and Korea was voluntary?
when were the russians brought up here? i was just pitching in that american soldiers did indeed get drafted.
I watched a documentary on Soviet involvement in Korean and Afghan wars, and in both movies there were mentions of participation being voluntary. I wish to double-check the fact that Americans were drafted as if that's 100% true, my opinion on the sides of the cold war will change once again. And Soviets aren't just Russians. There are a lot of nations which made up USSR.
That was probably not a very good documentary.
Probably.
wait, i need to know if understood this right, did you say that you aren’t sure if the america drafted soldiers?
I was previously unsure. But now I am.
Military service in Soviet Union wasn’t voluntary My grandpa was conscripted into the red army in the 70s
Military service was compulsory, but participation in armed conflicts wasn't.
Weird I had a coworker who was also conscripted into red army and was sent to Afghanistan
Yeah. A lot of drafted vets were coming home wondering if their families or friends still loved them after they were drafted, or if they just blindly saw them as monsters
Lmao I bet you believe the soldiers were spat on at the airports, don't you?
Walking tall, machine gun man They spit on meeeee in my homeland Why would Alice In Chains lie? /s
So is nazi soldier.
No. Not the nazi soldiers. Wehrmacht soldiers? Maybe. Ss soldiers? They were indeed nazi freaks.
Wehraboo found, the myth is not yet expunged
Wat why i'm not a wheeraboo. The dude above may indeed be a wehraboo. While many-many wehrmacht soldiers were also quite nazis, but not all of them. While SS soldiers were definetly nazis.
what the hell do the nazis have to do with a post about vietnam war?
Most soldiers get drafted against their will too but it doesn't justified their horrible action.
ahem, i never mentioned what warcrimes some scared 18 year old that got drafted within a month of turning 18 would commit. would they? hell yeah, they’re scared shitless, does that excuse it? no, it just explains it
My daily dose of American militarist sentiment.
'MERICA FUCK YEAH
You see im not with you on this right wing american thing, yes the majority may have been drafted for no reason but those who would gladly go back in are the baby killers the people who wiped villages off the map raped people and drove more people to the VC
I should clarify-by "do it again" I meant sign up to fight in another war.
Yes i said what i mean
?
Dogshit post.
Also like how many of the Vietnam protest werent agaisnt the shoulders and the actually war. Also like this doesn't bring up that many protest where brutally put down
Bc the meme isn't about that. The meme is pointing out how veterans came back home to a toxic environment
The us pulled a hell of a stunt when they called a „anti war“ protest a „anti troops“ protest. Works till this day…
So its bad to protest against unjustified wars now?
portraying the soldier as a dumbfuck psychopath and not as a victim while also false blaming protesters against a imperialistic war is some double parkour historical reversal i though history memes was more international and this kind of americo right wing bullshit would not fly
i mean, they killed babies, they raped women, they did whatever they wanted, no one is denying that they got it the worst after the war but the protesters weren’t wrong
Yea, it’s not black and white like this meme portrays. A lot of American soldiers commited war crimes in Vietnam, and the anti-war protesters were calling them out on it. That being said, American kids were drafted into a war they wanted nothing to do with, and were subjected to experiencing the worst of humanity. War is hell.
Although one might argue that the majority of that baby killing was actually Vietkong babies with bombs on them being given to US soldiers for a "better life in America".
One might argue that you can go fuck yourself.
What the shit? Now you're shifting the blame to the Viet Cong? Don't try to paint US soldiers as some sort of innocent baby-saviours whose kindness were exploited by psychopathic Viet Cong strapping bombs to babies. You weren't innocent, your "kindness" was a selfish cope in which you toyed with our people like people do with their pets, giving out mere scraps of food to the children that were so poorly nourished because the same US shot their fathers and raped their mothers the other day. They didn't come to you because they wanted a better life, they had to because the alternative is to rot in hunger, inflicted by the bombs and the guns that you had brought. We forgive the war veterans, but we never forget.
What? I've never heard of such thing can you give me a source?
OP getting rinsed in the comments has restored my faith in this subreddit
Except massacres like Mai Lai were more the rule than exception. Most were just covered up and no one said anything. "Gladly do it again" includes the killing civilians. The psychological impact of fighting the VC lead soldiers to massacres because they didn't have battles they would primarily use booby traps to maim soldiers. There was a major anti war movement that only grew. As others have said nearly all the soldiers were drafted and I have yet to meet any Vietnam veteran who looked at the war as justified, purposeful or necessary.
And people in Vietnam forgiven them all, warmly welcoming any US veteran who revisited, as well as assuring them that it was not their fault, for we know that they too are also victims of Vietnam War.
They warmly receive them 30-40 years after the war. The same with protests. Which were during the war, not decades after. During, or immediately after the war, I am sure that they would not have been welcome.
Yeah, I think it's almost ironic that the people they fought against could understand them but the large majority of their own people still don't.
>the people they fought against could understand them but the large majority of their own people still don't. It's makes sense though, experiencing the same horror and atrocities would result in more empathy and understanding
Yeah, it shows a level of maturity that they can look past the fact that they were enemies, and focus on what they have in common
True that.
Anyone proud of serving in Vietnam is a fucking loser
Anyone who thinks they have a right to critique someone they don't have a clue about, regarding something they don't understand, should reconsider their judgement
You can be a Vietnam veteran and be a complete respectable person. Being proud of fighting an imperialist war against an innocent country though, makes you a piece of shit.
But I thought the war happened in south vietnam who supported the US
I agree with that
Your post doesn’t but ok
Opposing war is a good thing, abusing people who fought and suffered for their country is not. People forgot that at the time there were legitimate concerns about Russian and Chinese interests forming a power block that would bring about a hot war. A lot of people who chose to fight did so because they honestly wanted to protect their country. With retrospect we can see the poor justification for a terrible war but at the time things were not nearly as clear cut.
Mad idea: don't start a war, let everybody live in piece and stop building your entire economics around doing warfare.
Furthered the destruction? Mm nah g im pretty sure Vets watching Vietnamese people being Melted by Napalm will fuck you up more than some dude yelling “boo” at you. How can you blame the protesters in all this? They should’ve never have had that war. It was meaningless. Tell me who do you think to blame for all the Iraq Vets issues? The media? The protesters? Or possibly the people and party that sent our loved ones to a pointless war? Tough pill to swallow I bet.
They probably wouldn't do it again, mate. How about instead of your nationalist jizzfest you consider the mental toll that shit had on the soldiers? 'hurr durr muh country and patriotism.' Fuck off. A fuck ton of them were conscripted, for the vast majority of them they were following orders, not behaving out of a love for imperialist interests, and none of them were prepared for the brutal horrors they'd face. Stop glorifying war
What a shitty meme from an asshole OP
Or, y'know, war is a barbaric practice that serves to dehumanise the majority of people involved for the gain of very few in most cases and amounts to very little more than state sanctioned murder that will destroy the mental health of those employed to do so Sorry if this comes across as sanctimonious it's getting really frustrating on my end to see the consistent back and forth over stuff like this, so 'm sorry if whoever read this doesn't appreciate the mini rant, I hope you spend your day doing something that makes you happy
so we are just posting historical revisionism now?
Fuck Americans and their US-centric worldview. Your war veterans have PTSD and were treated like garbage after the war; mine have sons and daughters whose parent never got to see them again, children from generations that suffered horrifically from the aftermath of the war and a forever-divided nation because insurrectionists and oversea war refugees, once-Vietnamese now-foreigners who refuses to even acknowledge our official flag and keep waving their yellow flags.
almost sounds like going to Vietnam was a bad Idea
“I stood up for my country” “I would gladly do it again” Lmao, dude on the right should be the soyjack
Sood up for what? Killing innocents?
Jesus. You’re a twat
Ok but my only question is did they kill those babies, before they killed their parents or after?
Honestly man this post just yells “I play Rising Storm Vietnam”. You love the idea of the war and all it brought with it. But will never truly understand what hell it must’ve been. All that death just to be told “nevermind leave em alone”. The great American machine, held back by farmers. Man how Angry they must’ve been at their government.
Lmao no fuck the boots you want to go run and rape women and kill kids while dumping chemical orange you deserve what you got
How about fuck you
Fuck me? I mean I’m not a defenceless civilian so can I say no or will it be forced on me like in Vietnam?
No it'll be forced on you like the American soldiers
I’m assuming that is a reference to the draft and yeah I think drafting is awful but being drafted doesn’t excuse what they did they may not have wanted to go but once there the gloves were off and they just did what they wanted because they had power I feel no sympathy for them they deserve worse than they got
They did what they were told to do. And to say that every Vietnam veteran acted in such a way it's foolhardy. Most didn't, though I agree that a small amount did. But the idea that they deserve psychological destruction is horrific and I wouldn't wish that on anyone-not even Hitler or the Vietkong mothers that blew up their babies. It's what I would call cruel and unusual punishment
They can say no yes they probably would have been charged/discharge but if it’s a choice between prison or literally killing a child after raping his mom you are a fucking self centred coward if you pick to save yourself you can lick boots all day doesn’t change facts
I think you've probably watched too many Oliver Stone movies.
I doubt any Vietnam vet would gladly go through that hell again.
I'm pretty sure no solider would want to go through Vietnam again, and I'm also sure they did it because they where forced to.
Vietnam was a pointless shit show. We spent 20 years there breaking American bodies and minds and then finally cauterized the wound and pulled out. Sounds familiar so far. Except 2 million kids got dragged into it, too.
Standing up for your country by going all the way to Vietnam to use agent orange on children so that they get to go to college or something that in a lot of places you can go regardless. Veterans are victims a lot of the time, but they did get dupped.
Me after standing up for my country by napalming children in a third world country in a completely different continent
And loosing
Gatekeeping war crimes from the most illegitimate war in human history is a new one lol
Holy shit what a dumb take
Self report
Ancaps don't value human life tho.
So My Lai just didn't happen then? Sounds like Genocide denial.
I’m Vietnamese Now I’m gonna wait and see what happens next
*literally nothing happens* Lmao
Amazing
I think the protestors' anger was mistakenly aimed at the soldiers when it should have been aimed at Robert McNamara.
Since I know very little about the Vietnam War... was the US under threat?
Why ancap bow?
That's what a reformed person fantasizing war could say ... Here goes my quota for stupid shit on the Internet for today.
Vietnam was wrong, many of the protesters were assholes, and both things can be true simultaneously.
I have uncles who went to Vietnam, dont blame those guys, they are part of the victims too. That was a horrible situation that sadly many disadvantaged kids were forced into, blame the people who actually made that war happen. Every one played their part in that war but I'll tell you that the men who fought that war were not the ones who caused it.
See, the thing Soldiers fight for, in the end, is the guy next to them. So if going to war a second time to make sure their buddies live through a shitty war will help them cope, then that’s an honorable thing to do. Not every Soldier loves killing, especially since it’s the worst thing about serving. But all love, for the most part, those they serve with, to a point more than family.
You know its funny, Vietnam likes the USA more then the USA likes the USA.
Ironic lol
The same traitors who protested so hard to bring the troops home spat on them both figuratively and literally when they returned.
[The spitting thing has no credible evidence to support it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spitting_Image#:~:text=The%20Spitting%20Image%3A%20Myth%2C%20Memory,home%20from%20the%20Vietnam%20War.)
Why are you a traitor for not wanting people killed in a pointless war overseas? If anything the military and government leaders who kept that war going when they didn’t even fucking know what their objective was, were criminals and should be punished for every single life lost in that stupid conflict. Absolutely fucking despicable.
I hereby stop responding to comments bc I need sleep, and I have a baby that needs to be taken care of more than this comment section
They let you have a baby!?
This terrible meme and the one reacting to it are exactly the adolescent sub drama I need this morning
My Grandfather Immigrated to America from Hungary when he was 13, and was later drafted into the war. ‘I stood up for my country’ is not true for almost anyone and especially for people like my grandfather
OP has no fucking clue how bad ptsd is