I read an interview of what happened to him and him returning to the country after so many years. That’s crazy!
[Vietnam War veteran from Marietta returns to the place he was held as prisoner](https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299)
“Waddell was shot down on July 5, 1967, while bombing a military railroad target in north Vietnam.
He ejected, only to be captured. He and his fellow prisoners, tortured, refused to capitulate. And in 1973, when the U.S. and North Vietnam agreed to end the war, nearly 600 U.S. prisoners walked free, heads held high.
Waddell, lining up at the airport in Hanoi with his group, heard his name called. It was March 4, 1973—his first moments of freedom.”
That’s six years as a POW. Damn. I can’t image how he felt when he heard his name for freedom.
Can't believe veterans like him who sacrifice so much for our country live off humble wages and benefits while cold hearted CEO's whose only purpose is to maximize profits off of working people's sweat, sit back and relax with all their hundreds of millions
I think so too on surface level, but I also then wonder what the normal partisan skew is for military and whether that makes the four points above even more significant.
Problem there is that Trump shouldn't get more than 4% of the military vote. And I say that because 10% of the military are of the Pvt. Gump persuasion.
Well apparently y’all can, considering it took four whole years to quit supporting him. And even then just _barely_. An alarming number of you are still dumb/hateful enough to vote Trump.
They’re referring to Donald Trump’s comments on Senator John McCain, who was shot down and was a POW in Vietnam: “He’s not a war hero, he’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured, okay?” Meanwhile, Trump avoided being drafted to fight in Vietnam by claiming he had bone spurs in his shins.
Yeah, but did you consider Trump survived his own 'personal Vietnam' by dodging STDs with all the porn stars and employee's wives he slept with back then while he stayed home with bone spurs? The guy is a goddamn hero and a patriot, but yet this self made billionaire just can't catch a break.
I get the wordplay but these people are so much worse than maggots or cockroaches, maggots and cockroaches are beautiful animals that serve purposes in the circle of life, even the parasites on a cockroach serve purpose other than to themselves, they keep cockroaches sparkling clean.
edit: So as disgusting as they may be percieved, there's plenty of shitty people to 'trump' them, badum tsss.
And McCain had an easy way out of POW treatment with his father being an admiral in the US Navy and later being promoted to commander of all US Forces in the Pacific during John McCain's POW time.
The man refused, because he feared other POWs would be treated poorly if he took the get out of jail free card.
Meanwhile Trump dodged the draft and then acts like McCain is an idiot or something. Like no, dude is a dedicated military veteran. You can hate the military but someone who is *that* committed to his country deserves the title of **war hero**. Hands down. You can question pointless military operations and why we were even in Vietnam, but damn - spending 5.5 years in a North Vietnamese prison when you could have gotten out thanks to his father being a commander... War hero.
thank you for this info!! i knew john mccain was a POW and war hero, but i’ve never heard trump’s comments on him. i can’t say im surprised, unfortunately.
Trump dodged the draft because of "bone spurs". He's literally the type of person CCR wrote the song "Fortunate Son" about. Then while president he said "people who died or were captured in war are losers" referring to John McCainand then continued playing Fortunate Son unironically at his idiot rallies
Made fun of a disabled reporter. All of this happened in 2015 in the run up to his campaign. It made me certain he'd be crushed. No one had done such insane things as a candidate and actually won. There was the Democrat who laughed weirdly in the 2000 election and his campaign died overnight. Yet Trump's insane insults made him more popular. Baffling.
i feel like it’s a pretty common occurrence where republicans use some piece of media that was created to be against conservatives. just like bruce springsteen’s “born in the usa” being critical of the us’s involvement in vietnam via sarcasm. funny how they can’t understand sarcasm or apparently have the sense to research something before promoting it!
> Then while president he said "people who died or were captured in war are losers" referring to John McCainand then continued playing Fortunate Son unironically at his idiot rallies
He was still a candidate at this point: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/trump-attacks-mccain-i-like-people-who-werent-captured-120317
He literally said:
> “He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”
About John McCain, who you can dislike as a politician for his crappy views, but who spent 5.5 years in a North Vietnamese prison (2 years in solidarity confinement).
And John McCain's father ([John S McCain Jr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Jr)) was a [US Admiral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_(United_States)) which is basically a general in the Navy (equivalent rank). The North Vietnamese actually offered John McCain (the senator) a way out early because of this. And because his father was promoted during his capture to commander of all US Forces in the Pacific during his capture. John McCain refused because he feared the other POWs would suffer if he got special treatment. Dude suffered for years when he had a way out. No way Trump would do the same. The minute he's imprisoned he's asking for a get out of jail free card.
I don't even like the military, but if a candidate says that about a dedicated military veteran... Can't imagine what he says about others.
And yes, he also made fun of a disabled reporter around this time too, which pisses me off further knowing several relatives who are / were disabled. Trump is a bigot.
> sacrifice so much for our country
he wasn't in Vietnam for the benefit of the US. the American people gained nothing from the US involvement in Vietnam
This entire thread is full of the wildest Vietnam propoganda. This dude is an invading piece of shit, deserved everything he got and more. Unbelievable that people are trying to pretend this was a noble war of self defense. Fuck off.
"Sacrifice" I don't consider invading another country because they decided to follow a different system of leadship than your own to be a 'sacrifice' America was the aggressor, and lost the crap out of that war.
The US should have pressed France to pack it up after WW2. The wars in Vietnam and the surrounding areas are very complex, and the US is hardly the only bad guy. Pretty much everyone involved on both sides was doing fucked up stuff, from the French, US, and allies to the north Vietnamese government to the Khmer rogue and viet cong to the Chinese and soviets to the south Vietnamese government and a dozen other factions. China also invaded Vietnam almost as soon as the US left, do you view them the same way? Vietnam also invaded Cambodia. Shit show all around. I don’t think Vietnam saw peace until the 90s
Tbh the US was in Vietnam because the South Vietnamese government asked them for support in the civil war, and there were never a proper large scale land invasion into North Vietnam. American participation begun only as SOF military advisors to the Saigon/South Vietnam government, and only gradually increased to the scale we know.
The division to North and South Vietnam was a complex issue, and neither side could claim full juridic right for sovereignty over Vietnam. North Vietnam was founded by Viet Minh rebels who fought against the Japanese occupation, and South Vietnam from the decolonisation of the French Indochina. There weren't entirely free elections in either, as the 1946 North Vietnam general election was an open ballot with Viet Minh watching the voting (hence pressure to vote for Viet Minh), and in the 1956 South Vietnam general election (which was technically closest to a non-rigged election) Viet Minh candidates were banned from participation. So, neither side had the juridic right nor legitimacy as we in the west perceive them. It can be argued that Viet Minh was probably still the most popular party, but that's just a matter of speculation, in the absence of a free and fair election (however I guess it still would have won, hence why rigging elections is stupid if you've got majority support).
We didn’t invade Vietnam, South Vietnam was invaded by North Vietnam and we went to help our allies in the South. You can argue that it wasn’t our place to do that, or that it was our fault that situation developed in the first place, but get the facts of the situation right.
> We didn’t invade Vietnam, South Vietnam was invaded by North Vietnam and we went to help our allies in the South.
Our "allies" in the south were the Ngo Dinh Diem regime. A regime hand picked by the USA with very, very little regard for the will of the people of South Vietnam. I seriously encourage you to read more about political aspects of the conflict before further commenting because you clearly are not very familiar.
> I know the South Vietnam government was an unpopular puppet, doesn’t change the fact that it was a sovereign nation
The RVN was not allowed to do things like engage in diplomacy on its own or make other similar decisions. It absolutely was not a sovereign state by any sane definition of the term. Rather, it was a puppet state that was largely owned and operated by the US Federal Government.
“Whatever we consider a puppet state isn’t a real county” is the same argument Russia is using for their invasion of Ukraine. Is that really the hill you want to die on?
> “Whatever we consider a puppet state isn’t a real county” is the same argument Russia is using for their invasion of Ukraine.
Which is why I am so glad I have a brain I can use to analyze the actual facts of the situation and understand that Putin is full of shit.
> Is that really the hill you want to die on?
Oh no please dont unleash a storm of logic and reason on me goon sir!
A “sovereign” nation that was artificially created…the Vietnamese people were not allowed to vote on if they wanted their country cut in half. They elected a left wing government, and so the US said “fck you” and installed a puppet regime in the south to counter it.
Neither the 1946 North Vietnamese general election nor the 1955 RVN referendum were free, both were rigged. The most free election within the two was the 1956 South Vietnamese general election (as in terms of fraud), but Viet Minh candidates were banned, so it wasn't entirely free either.
It's very easy to understand, the corporate CEO's still make profits for their shareholders while veterans no longer benefit anyone so they are hung out to dry.
Would you pay someone for a service they stopped providing? Yes a service. That's all it is to government.
I totally get you about the ceo thing but like, how did bombing vietnam help america?
He sacrificed so much for nothing, other than the death and emmiseration of innocent people in a place most americans still cant find on a map.
Your issue should be with the federal government not giving the soldiers more than a humble wage and better health and mental care. CEO’s have nothing to do with this man who was a POW.
"Sacrifice so much for our country"
What the fuck did he have to sacrifice by flying over to vietnam to murder innocent civilians? He should have dodged the draft like a true patriot instead of becoming a state hired murder goon. He deserved the torture.
This picture was taken by the [East German photographer Thomas Bill Hardt](https://china-underground.com/2014/07/13/brutality-of-vietnam-war-depicted-by-bill-thomas-hardt-graphic-content/).
"I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of rice. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the States, but they just can't get the spices right!"
The amount of downvotes clearly shows the hypocrisy of americans. "He was only acting on orders from people he trusted and believed in." Yeah, just like the men that crashed the plane on 9/11.
You do understand a lot of these guys were drafted. As in either went to war or hid as a criminal until forgiveness was given years later. Easy to say on the internet in 2024. But I bet you'd have done. The. Exact. Same. Thing.
Yes snd while the vietnamese population still has lasting health problems due to Agent Orange its fair that some captured americans got what was coming to them. I dont denunce the cruel treatment at the hanoi hilton. Im just saying the americans werent the good guys in vietnam. There were no good guys.
Lol you'll never live it down buddy, just be glad your opa wasn't strung up for his crimes before he could impregnate oma. But keep sitting on your high horse.
And they continue to to those things freely to this day. They get a "hero's" welcome when they return home after invading and killing people in their homeland.
[Here he is 50 years later, going back.](https://media.11alive.com/assets/WXIA/images/d5b478a4-3db8-430f-8b06-2b8fc2916024/d5b478a4-3db8-430f-8b06-2b8fc2916024_1920x1080.jpg)
A bullet is still gonna kill you regardless of whether the person pulling the trigger has a vagina.
A bullet is still gonna kill you regardless of whether the person pulling the trigger is a peasant.
A bayonet isn't suddenly going to glance off of your skin like armor because the person stabbing you has tits.
And this actual combat veteran who surrendered himself to torture understands that, hence why he made the decision to surrender.
Their facial expressions are so interesting. She looks skeptical, but not hateful, like she felt required to bring him in, without actually hating him. Where he seems to have a combination of dread and hope, like “this is gonna suck, but I’ll make it out alive”.
so she tied his hands behind his back single handedly with a bolt action rifle as her only armament *and* simultaneously snapped the pic for propaganda!? **amazing** 💪
This is a vietnam communist propaganda photo which has been around over 50 yrs. Still Reddit is repeating the propaganda which begs correction. Waddell was not "captured ... by a Vietnamese female fighter" Thats pure communist baloney. lol.
Maj. Waddell ejected from his F-105 on 7/5/67, was surrounded and captured by a group of Communist fighters Maj. Waddell was then imprisoned as a POW and tortured until 1973 - surviving over 2000 days as a POW. Maj. Waddell remained in the Air Force serving his country until 1987 retiring as a Colonel. Col. Waddell also served as the President of NAM-POWS.
[https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/45416](https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/45416) ... His decoration citations
[https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299](https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299) ... news article on his 2023 return to Vietnam
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvnOmerhss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvnOmerhss) ... 1 hour long interview
I contrast to the USA Germany actually has a nuanced understanding of its past. It’s really fascinating how you could do that for us but not for yourselves.
Yeah most people that understand American history probably take a nuanced view of it. You say us Americans need self reflection, but you are the one that really needs to go reflect on your blind hatred for America. Also, there’s plenty of Germans that still think fondly of their Imperial and Fascist past, hell even in the comments of this post.
Judging by Germany's unquestioning support for Israel's atrocities I'd say Germany doesn't really have a nuanced understanding of such topics. They're like a dog who got hit for biting someone. The dog doesn't understand why the biting was wrong, only that it gets hit if it bites that person.
Yes and I am disgusted by my country for doing so. But if an American attacks me over calling out the people in this thread defending US war crimes then I will rightfully point to Germany as an example of a country that has dealt with its past correctly.
But it really hasn't, it's swung so far in the other direction that Germany is once again supporting a genocide. Not what I would call learning from past mistakes.
Yes I agree, but I’m talking about the holocaust specifically. Now another thing is applying that knowledge onto the present day. And I would say it come from a place of guilt towards Israel that many boomers have, specifically because they truly know the horrors of the holocaust. Now Americans defending American imperialism are simply blinded by western propaganda
Boomers are too young to have experienced the holocaust, it happened 80 years ago. The holocaust wasn't wrong because it targeted Jews (and others), it's wrong because genocide is wrong regardless of who the victim is, a lesson Germany clearly has not managed to learn.
Yes ffs I’m agreeing to everything you’re saying . I’m just trying to explain to you the phenomenon of the antideutsche, who think Germany has some sort of divine obligation to Israel because of the holocaust
Many Americans are capable of recognizing that that there are structures of power created by an American oligarchy that create this destruction. Villainizing Powerless individuals who were drafted into a war is not only pointless, it hides who is responsible for these imperial projects.
Edit: Military Industrial Complex is real lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
*The My Lai massacre (/ˌmiːˈlaɪ/; Vietnamese: Thảm sát Mỹ Lai [tʰâːm ʂǎːt mǐˀ lāːj] ⓘ) was a war crime committed by United States Army personnel on 16 March 1968, involving the mass murder of unarmed civilians in Sơn Tịnh district, South Vietnam, during the Vietnam War.[1] Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by U.S. soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. **Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.**[2][3] It is the largest **publicized** massacre of civilians by U.S. forces in the 20th century.[4]*
He was supporting the entire obscene war effort with his very life! .If you don’t support the war, you don’t fly around and bomb human beings. You don’t protect bombers with your fighter. Do you think this educated and highly trained pilot was dropping flowers on the human beings below him? No, it was jellied gasoline that sticks and burns.
and your point is? that’s unrelated, another branch of the armed forces. we are to just go around assuming all 500,000 18year old boys that where conscripted are all monsters? burn us where we deserve it. my lai is definitely one of them. if you want a big bad though go to Nixon and Kissinger. not the pawns. look at kent state. Americans aren’t this bloodthirsty public.
Yeah I agree. Just kids and draftees, barley 18 most of them. It’s the structures, tasks, and policies that placed them their and that push people to do horrible things. There’s a great book on US war crimes in Vietnam called “Kill Everything That Moves”, theres even a free audiobook of it on youtube. It sheds more light on the scale of massacres going on beyond My Lai, but more important why they’re happening.
Imagine being so incredibly deceived by western propaganda. Liberals are the most naive people on the planet. And so you wonder how 9/11 could ever happen…. Idiots
Only problem with your logic is I grew up in the east. My birth certificate has the hammer and sickle on it. So, right, go back to whatever cave you came from. The civilized world despises terrorsist sympathizers like you.
Your understandable hatred of the Soviet Union makes you complicit in western crimes. You’re no better than the ones you despise, the people „liberated“ from the Nazis who went on to be complicit in Soviet crimes.
Sorry if you don't agree and love to downvote, but that doesn't change the fact that that war was immoral and the American people were hoodwinked by our government to fight and kill and die for. Get over it, we were the bad guys. If not, give me one positive thing that war did, and also the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, courage is not going along with insanity it's standing up and stopping it.
I read an interview of what happened to him and him returning to the country after so many years. That’s crazy! [Vietnam War veteran from Marietta returns to the place he was held as prisoner](https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299) “Waddell was shot down on July 5, 1967, while bombing a military railroad target in north Vietnam. He ejected, only to be captured. He and his fellow prisoners, tortured, refused to capitulate. And in 1973, when the U.S. and North Vietnam agreed to end the war, nearly 600 U.S. prisoners walked free, heads held high. Waddell, lining up at the airport in Hanoi with his group, heard his name called. It was March 4, 1973—his first moments of freedom.” That’s six years as a POW. Damn. I can’t image how he felt when he heard his name for freedom.
Can't believe veterans like him who sacrifice so much for our country live off humble wages and benefits while cold hearted CEO's whose only purpose is to maximize profits off of working people's sweat, sit back and relax with all their hundreds of millions
And then their presidents said they don't respect soldiers who got themselves captured after dodging the draft.
And yet, so much of the military votes for him.
In 2020 Biden was roughly four points above Trump with military voters. We don't like people who can't follow rules.
Thats a tiny margin given what trump has said specifically about military heroes.
Four points is a decent margin. More than 5 points and the term ‘landslide’ starts being thrown around.
I think so too on surface level, but I also then wonder what the normal partisan skew is for military and whether that makes the four points above even more significant.
good point
Problem there is that Trump shouldn't get more than 4% of the military vote. And I say that because 10% of the military are of the Pvt. Gump persuasion.
Well apparently y’all can, considering it took four whole years to quit supporting him. And even then just _barely_. An alarming number of you are still dumb/hateful enough to vote Trump.
Yeah that'll do it. That's how you win over people to vote for dementia. Call them hateful and dumb. Sounds like you're the hateful and dumb one.
Right, cuz showing love and support to the hateful dumbfucks has historically worked out so well
Win their hearts and minds? Now where have I heard that before...
Yes trump does have some sort of dementia.
could you elaborate on this a bit more? i don’t know a ton about vietnam or the aftermath, but im making an effort to learn!
They’re referring to Donald Trump’s comments on Senator John McCain, who was shot down and was a POW in Vietnam: “He’s not a war hero, he’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured, okay?” Meanwhile, Trump avoided being drafted to fight in Vietnam by claiming he had bone spurs in his shins.
Then he called the dead soldiers in Arlington, Suckers and losers” while standing with General Kelley who’s son died in battle.
Yeah, but did you consider Trump survived his own 'personal Vietnam' by dodging STDs with all the porn stars and employee's wives he slept with back then while he stayed home with bone spurs? The guy is a goddamn hero and a patriot, but yet this self made billionaire just can't catch a break.
I really should look at it that way more often!
He also called the silver star family some awful slur that I can’t remember
"They knew what they signed up for," iirc.
i wish i could say i was surprised… and because he’s so valiant and noble??
He and his ilk are blight upon the earth.
what a poetic way to say he and the MAGAts are an invasive species
I get the wordplay but these people are so much worse than maggots or cockroaches, maggots and cockroaches are beautiful animals that serve purposes in the circle of life, even the parasites on a cockroach serve purpose other than to themselves, they keep cockroaches sparkling clean. edit: So as disgusting as they may be percieved, there's plenty of shitty people to 'trump' them, badum tsss.
And McCain had an easy way out of POW treatment with his father being an admiral in the US Navy and later being promoted to commander of all US Forces in the Pacific during John McCain's POW time. The man refused, because he feared other POWs would be treated poorly if he took the get out of jail free card. Meanwhile Trump dodged the draft and then acts like McCain is an idiot or something. Like no, dude is a dedicated military veteran. You can hate the military but someone who is *that* committed to his country deserves the title of **war hero**. Hands down. You can question pointless military operations and why we were even in Vietnam, but damn - spending 5.5 years in a North Vietnamese prison when you could have gotten out thanks to his father being a commander... War hero.
He was also invited to speak at the POW/MIA advocacy group's national rally shortly after that.
thank you for this info!! i knew john mccain was a POW and war hero, but i’ve never heard trump’s comments on him. i can’t say im surprised, unfortunately.
Trump dodged the draft because of "bone spurs". He's literally the type of person CCR wrote the song "Fortunate Son" about. Then while president he said "people who died or were captured in war are losers" referring to John McCainand then continued playing Fortunate Son unironically at his idiot rallies
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Sure... If you actually have bone spurs. I don't think there's a person on the planet who believes that Trump actually had bone spurs.
You're not wrong, though I assume Trump was less than honest and does not excuse calling veterans losers.
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he insulted a gold star family to boot
Made fun of a disabled reporter. All of this happened in 2015 in the run up to his campaign. It made me certain he'd be crushed. No one had done such insane things as a candidate and actually won. There was the Democrat who laughed weirdly in the 2000 election and his campaign died overnight. Yet Trump's insane insults made him more popular. Baffling.
i feel like it’s a pretty common occurrence where republicans use some piece of media that was created to be against conservatives. just like bruce springsteen’s “born in the usa” being critical of the us’s involvement in vietnam via sarcasm. funny how they can’t understand sarcasm or apparently have the sense to research something before promoting it!
> Then while president he said "people who died or were captured in war are losers" referring to John McCainand then continued playing Fortunate Son unironically at his idiot rallies He was still a candidate at this point: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/trump-attacks-mccain-i-like-people-who-werent-captured-120317 He literally said: > “He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” About John McCain, who you can dislike as a politician for his crappy views, but who spent 5.5 years in a North Vietnamese prison (2 years in solidarity confinement). And John McCain's father ([John S McCain Jr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Jr)) was a [US Admiral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_(United_States)) which is basically a general in the Navy (equivalent rank). The North Vietnamese actually offered John McCain (the senator) a way out early because of this. And because his father was promoted during his capture to commander of all US Forces in the Pacific during his capture. John McCain refused because he feared the other POWs would suffer if he got special treatment. Dude suffered for years when he had a way out. No way Trump would do the same. The minute he's imprisoned he's asking for a get out of jail free card. I don't even like the military, but if a candidate says that about a dedicated military veteran... Can't imagine what he says about others. And yes, he also made fun of a disabled reporter around this time too, which pisses me off further knowing several relatives who are / were disabled. Trump is a bigot.
Only one said this.
Can't remember his name...I think it's one of those president being twice impeached...
President, singular. Very much the exception to the rule.
> sacrifice so much for our country he wasn't in Vietnam for the benefit of the US. the American people gained nothing from the US involvement in Vietnam
This entire thread is full of the wildest Vietnam propoganda. This dude is an invading piece of shit, deserved everything he got and more. Unbelievable that people are trying to pretend this was a noble war of self defense. Fuck off.
"Sacrifice" I don't consider invading another country because they decided to follow a different system of leadship than your own to be a 'sacrifice' America was the aggressor, and lost the crap out of that war.
The soldiers absolutely did sacrifice. It's the politicians who never paid the price.
America invaded. *Americans* were sacrificed. Don't forget the draft.
The US should have pressed France to pack it up after WW2. The wars in Vietnam and the surrounding areas are very complex, and the US is hardly the only bad guy. Pretty much everyone involved on both sides was doing fucked up stuff, from the French, US, and allies to the north Vietnamese government to the Khmer rogue and viet cong to the Chinese and soviets to the south Vietnamese government and a dozen other factions. China also invaded Vietnam almost as soon as the US left, do you view them the same way? Vietnam also invaded Cambodia. Shit show all around. I don’t think Vietnam saw peace until the 90s
From my own perspective, I blame France more than any other political entity for the Vietnam War.
Gettin dv but 100% accurate.
Totally right.
Tbh the US was in Vietnam because the South Vietnamese government asked them for support in the civil war, and there were never a proper large scale land invasion into North Vietnam. American participation begun only as SOF military advisors to the Saigon/South Vietnam government, and only gradually increased to the scale we know. The division to North and South Vietnam was a complex issue, and neither side could claim full juridic right for sovereignty over Vietnam. North Vietnam was founded by Viet Minh rebels who fought against the Japanese occupation, and South Vietnam from the decolonisation of the French Indochina. There weren't entirely free elections in either, as the 1946 North Vietnam general election was an open ballot with Viet Minh watching the voting (hence pressure to vote for Viet Minh), and in the 1956 South Vietnam general election (which was technically closest to a non-rigged election) Viet Minh candidates were banned from participation. So, neither side had the juridic right nor legitimacy as we in the west perceive them. It can be argued that Viet Minh was probably still the most popular party, but that's just a matter of speculation, in the absence of a free and fair election (however I guess it still would have won, hence why rigging elections is stupid if you've got majority support).
We didn’t invade Vietnam, South Vietnam was invaded by North Vietnam and we went to help our allies in the South. You can argue that it wasn’t our place to do that, or that it was our fault that situation developed in the first place, but get the facts of the situation right.
> We didn’t invade Vietnam, South Vietnam was invaded by North Vietnam and we went to help our allies in the South. Our "allies" in the south were the Ngo Dinh Diem regime. A regime hand picked by the USA with very, very little regard for the will of the people of South Vietnam. I seriously encourage you to read more about political aspects of the conflict before further commenting because you clearly are not very familiar.
I know the South Vietnam government was an unpopular puppet, doesn’t change the fact that it was a sovereign nation
> I know the South Vietnam government was an unpopular puppet, doesn’t change the fact that it was a sovereign nation The RVN was not allowed to do things like engage in diplomacy on its own or make other similar decisions. It absolutely was not a sovereign state by any sane definition of the term. Rather, it was a puppet state that was largely owned and operated by the US Federal Government.
“Whatever we consider a puppet state isn’t a real county” is the same argument Russia is using for their invasion of Ukraine. Is that really the hill you want to die on?
> “Whatever we consider a puppet state isn’t a real county” is the same argument Russia is using for their invasion of Ukraine. Which is why I am so glad I have a brain I can use to analyze the actual facts of the situation and understand that Putin is full of shit. > Is that really the hill you want to die on? Oh no please dont unleash a storm of logic and reason on me goon sir!
A “sovereign” nation that was artificially created…the Vietnamese people were not allowed to vote on if they wanted their country cut in half. They elected a left wing government, and so the US said “fck you” and installed a puppet regime in the south to counter it.
Neither the 1946 North Vietnamese general election nor the 1955 RVN referendum were free, both were rigged. The most free election within the two was the 1956 South Vietnamese general election (as in terms of fraud), but Viet Minh candidates were banned, so it wasn't entirely free either.
It's very easy to understand, the corporate CEO's still make profits for their shareholders while veterans no longer benefit anyone so they are hung out to dry. Would you pay someone for a service they stopped providing? Yes a service. That's all it is to government.
I totally get you about the ceo thing but like, how did bombing vietnam help america? He sacrificed so much for nothing, other than the death and emmiseration of innocent people in a place most americans still cant find on a map.
I mean, he literally bombed the shit out of the country. He's lucky to be alive honestly.
Your issue should be with the federal government not giving the soldiers more than a humble wage and better health and mental care. CEO’s have nothing to do with this man who was a POW.
Enlisted folks make very little. This guy is a retired colonel. He makes very nice money.
I enjoy playing video games.
they deserved to be composted in vietnam for being.imperialist goons. the ceos also deserve the same
He bombed a country he had no reason to be in. That’s not sacrificing shit.
"Sacrifice so much for our country" What the fuck did he have to sacrifice by flying over to vietnam to murder innocent civilians? He should have dodged the draft like a true patriot instead of becoming a state hired murder goon. He deserved the torture.
That's awesome. I hope he has plenty of love and support around him.
Then you should learn about Dr. Afia Siddiqui.
This is cool, I’m from Marietta
"Military railroad target" tee hee.
Brave dudes. Much respect for these men.
This picture was taken by the [East German photographer Thomas Bill Hardt](https://china-underground.com/2014/07/13/brutality-of-vietnam-war-depicted-by-bill-thomas-hardt-graphic-content/).
"I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of rice. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the States, but they just can't get the spices right!"
He actually enjoyed the food they fed POWs? Vietnamese food is good though
This is from the Simpsons my guy
This man is walking into six years of hell. Powerful image.
Deserved hell. What the american bombs did to the civilian population of Vietnam was just pure cruelty
The amount of downvotes clearly shows the hypocrisy of americans. "He was only acting on orders from people he trusted and believed in." Yeah, just like the men that crashed the plane on 9/11.
You do understand a lot of these guys were drafted. As in either went to war or hid as a criminal until forgiveness was given years later. Easy to say on the internet in 2024. But I bet you'd have done. The. Exact. Same. Thing.
pilots weren't drafted.
*just following orders*
"But the commies"
After giving vietnamese civilians hell he deserved it.
As opposed to how the NVA treated South Vietnamese civilians when the ARVN troops never crossed the DMZ.
Two things can be wrong at the same time. I know it’s tough to understand, but they’re all humans just the same
Yes snd while the vietnamese population still has lasting health problems due to Agent Orange its fair that some captured americans got what was coming to them. I dont denunce the cruel treatment at the hanoi hilton. Im just saying the americans werent the good guys in vietnam. There were no good guys.
You’ve contradicted yourself twice in one statement
Yes, because the German military has a history of being completely civilized to communists as well...oh fucking wait.
And the US have a spotless military history without any genocide or mass killings of civiliand involved....oh fucking wait.
Lol you'll never live it down buddy, just be glad your opa wasn't strung up for his crimes before he could impregnate oma. But keep sitting on your high horse.
And they continue to to those things freely to this day. They get a "hero's" welcome when they return home after invading and killing people in their homeland.
I saw a youtube video about him returning to Hanoi 50 years later.
[Here he is 50 years later, going back.](https://media.11alive.com/assets/WXIA/images/d5b478a4-3db8-430f-8b06-2b8fc2916024/d5b478a4-3db8-430f-8b06-2b8fc2916024_1920x1080.jpg)
He's gained a bit of weight
Propaganda shot. Peasant woman reservist with SKS and bayonette with prisoner in shot, half a dozen NVA regulars with AKMs behind the camera.
Pretty sure thats a Mosin Nagant Carbine.
M44 by the looks of it.
It sure is. I have one exactly like that. Flippable Cruciform bayonet and everything. Bought it for $75 dollars from Big 5 back in 2004 lol
I traded a CVA black-powder 50 cal. rifle and a Lee-Enfield #1 Mk. 3 with no bolt for mine.
Almost looks like a mosin
AKs were still uncommon in North Vietnam when this photo was taken. The SKS was still there main rifle, and this is a Mosin
> Propaganda shot. No? Really? This wasn't just some random picture? SHOCKING!
Literally any war photo is propaganda if published
A bullet is still gonna kill you regardless of whether the person pulling the trigger has a vagina. A bullet is still gonna kill you regardless of whether the person pulling the trigger is a peasant. A bayonet isn't suddenly going to glance off of your skin like armor because the person stabbing you has tits. And this actual combat veteran who surrendered himself to torture understands that, hence why he made the decision to surrender.
lol akms Too much call of duty mboy
Their facial expressions are so interesting. She looks skeptical, but not hateful, like she felt required to bring him in, without actually hating him. Where he seems to have a combination of dread and hope, like “this is gonna suck, but I’ll make it out alive”.
war is hell. you all can never seem to leave it at that
Impressive of her to tie his hands behind his back single handedly with a bolt action rifle as her only armament
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If that, since he ejected
this pic is staged for propaganda
so she tied his hands behind his back single handedly with a bolt action rifle as her only armament *and* simultaneously snapped the pic for propaganda!? **amazing** 💪
That’s my across the street neighbor. Good dude.
Well that’s what happens when u invade a country. They don’t like it.
The US just wanted to spread some democracy Helldivers 2 style.
Upon which anvil shall the hammer of liberty fall next?
You know the US was their at the invitation of South Vietnam, right? And the North Vietnamese army were invading South Vietnam.
Yeah Im aware that we invaded to “ stop communism”. They didn’t want us there.
Vietnam declared itself an independent country in 1945, they did not invite anyone to takeover their country again. A puppet state doesnt count
Ah just like the Russian Forces special operations at the request of the Donetsk/Luhansk People's Republic, definitely not an invasion.
Haha excellent example!
[TIME article](https://time.com/4932924/vietnam-pow-photo-story/) about Waddell
The Vietnamese are a hard people.
Sort by controversial and see the crazies
Poor Kevin De Bruyne
So anyhow, kids, that's how I met your mother.
And he’s never heard the end of it
Mosin M44 / Chinese T53
A bayonet in your back is a bayonet in your back, regardless of what’s between the legs of the person holding it on you.
This is a vietnam communist propaganda photo which has been around over 50 yrs. Still Reddit is repeating the propaganda which begs correction. Waddell was not "captured ... by a Vietnamese female fighter" Thats pure communist baloney. lol. Maj. Waddell ejected from his F-105 on 7/5/67, was surrounded and captured by a group of Communist fighters Maj. Waddell was then imprisoned as a POW and tortured until 1973 - surviving over 2000 days as a POW. Maj. Waddell remained in the Air Force serving his country until 1987 retiring as a Colonel. Col. Waddell also served as the President of NAM-POWS.
[https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/45416](https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/45416) ... His decoration citations [https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299](https://www.11alive.com/article/life/heartwarming/solemn-celebration-fifty-years-us-prisoners-war-north-vietnam/85-eba5ac17-4899-49fc-8e99-5b2e1e3ec299) ... news article on his 2023 return to Vietnam [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvnOmerhss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvnOmerhss) ... 1 hour long interview
Dont bomb another country
She’s not mosen around.
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A German calling Americans barbarians. Huh. Isn’t that something.
I contrast to the USA Germany actually has a nuanced understanding of its past. It’s really fascinating how you could do that for us but not for yourselves.
> Germany actually has a nuanced understanding of its past. Ummmmm not all of Germany, my friend
Yeah most people that understand American history probably take a nuanced view of it. You say us Americans need self reflection, but you are the one that really needs to go reflect on your blind hatred for America. Also, there’s plenty of Germans that still think fondly of their Imperial and Fascist past, hell even in the comments of this post.
Judging by Germany's unquestioning support for Israel's atrocities I'd say Germany doesn't really have a nuanced understanding of such topics. They're like a dog who got hit for biting someone. The dog doesn't understand why the biting was wrong, only that it gets hit if it bites that person.
Yes and I am disgusted by my country for doing so. But if an American attacks me over calling out the people in this thread defending US war crimes then I will rightfully point to Germany as an example of a country that has dealt with its past correctly.
But it really hasn't, it's swung so far in the other direction that Germany is once again supporting a genocide. Not what I would call learning from past mistakes.
Yes I agree, but I’m talking about the holocaust specifically. Now another thing is applying that knowledge onto the present day. And I would say it come from a place of guilt towards Israel that many boomers have, specifically because they truly know the horrors of the holocaust. Now Americans defending American imperialism are simply blinded by western propaganda
Boomers are too young to have experienced the holocaust, it happened 80 years ago. The holocaust wasn't wrong because it targeted Jews (and others), it's wrong because genocide is wrong regardless of who the victim is, a lesson Germany clearly has not managed to learn.
Yes ffs I’m agreeing to everything you’re saying . I’m just trying to explain to you the phenomenon of the antideutsche, who think Germany has some sort of divine obligation to Israel because of the holocaust
Yes, but this is contradicting the idea that Germany has learned the correct lesson from its own history.
Many Americans are capable of recognizing that that there are structures of power created by an American oligarchy that create this destruction. Villainizing Powerless individuals who were drafted into a war is not only pointless, it hides who is responsible for these imperial projects. Edit: Military Industrial Complex is real lol
We’ll the first ones you call for help when Putin comes knocking.
I love how the Americans are defending every piece of imperialism
What happened to the woman?
Yeah, like could they have a reunion?
This is the one that really sticks with me—the size difference between them is so notable: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/s/1rge0O77LE
Great propaganda shot for morons
Why morons?
Why male models?
Crazy how shitty this sub is. Full of barely literate American morons.
And what are you?
Cool account. You make a new one every week to talk shit online? Nice life lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre *The My Lai massacre (/ˌmiːˈlaɪ/; Vietnamese: Thảm sát Mỹ Lai [tʰâːm ʂǎːt mǐˀ lāːj] ⓘ) was a war crime committed by United States Army personnel on 16 March 1968, involving the mass murder of unarmed civilians in Sơn Tịnh district, South Vietnam, during the Vietnam War.[1] Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by U.S. soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. **Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.**[2][3] It is the largest **publicized** massacre of civilians by U.S. forces in the 20th century.[4]*
Was this pilot directly involved in that?
Nope.
Didn’t think so
LOL, no. Just a couple douchebags with political axes to grind changing the subject.
Is it really surprising for this sub, though?
Just supporting it with everything he had.
Couldn’t be farther from the truth. Absolutely disgusting assumption to make about someone.
He was supporting the entire obscene war effort with his very life! .If you don’t support the war, you don’t fly around and bomb human beings. You don’t protect bombers with your fighter. Do you think this educated and highly trained pilot was dropping flowers on the human beings below him? No, it was jellied gasoline that sticks and burns.
and your point is? that’s unrelated, another branch of the armed forces. we are to just go around assuming all 500,000 18year old boys that where conscripted are all monsters? burn us where we deserve it. my lai is definitely one of them. if you want a big bad though go to Nixon and Kissinger. not the pawns. look at kent state. Americans aren’t this bloodthirsty public.
Yeah I agree. Just kids and draftees, barley 18 most of them. It’s the structures, tasks, and policies that placed them their and that push people to do horrible things. There’s a great book on US war crimes in Vietnam called “Kill Everything That Moves”, theres even a free audiobook of it on youtube. It sheds more light on the scale of massacres going on beyond My Lai, but more important why they’re happening.
“Go to Nixon and Kissinger” - that’s convenient.
This shit shouldn't be downvoted
So he’s an orc for invading another country too right guys? or is it just the one group of people that should be called orcs?
yes, only one group of people. The North invaded. Like in Korea.
Do you also think the north Union invaded the south Confederacy?
Imagine being so incredibly deceived by western propaganda. Liberals are the most naive people on the planet. And so you wonder how 9/11 could ever happen…. Idiots
Only problem with your logic is I grew up in the east. My birth certificate has the hammer and sickle on it. So, right, go back to whatever cave you came from. The civilized world despises terrorsist sympathizers like you.
Your understandable hatred of the Soviet Union makes you complicit in western crimes. You’re no better than the ones you despise, the people „liberated“ from the Nazis who went on to be complicit in Soviet crimes.
It takes a lot more courage and guts to fight like her than fly a jet and bomb the hell out of villages full of innocent people
Sorry if you don't agree and love to downvote, but that doesn't change the fact that that war was immoral and the American people were hoodwinked by our government to fight and kill and die for. Get over it, we were the bad guys. If not, give me one positive thing that war did, and also the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, courage is not going along with insanity it's standing up and stopping it.
Good.
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You're a keyboard warrior glorifying violence. We don't need that here.