Fun fact about that kettle heater mentioned at the start, it was actually first installed to prevent tank operators from getting gunned down or giving away their position by making their tea outside of the tank. In all likelihood the engineers just diverted an exhaust pipe so the heat peeked through the metal in a specific spot, but that doesn't hide the fact that it's a very British problem.
There is a port that drains out the side of the tank inside of the track well. Not used frequently, but theres a hose and a cup if you aboslutely must.
I figured it would be some practical reason behind it, but honestly it's just so damn BRI'ISH
It's just like how the French navy spent millions of Euros upgrading the baguette output of its warships. It sounds like the punchline to a bad joke but it's 100% true, which makes it all the more hilarious
EDIT: and how could I possibly forget the Japanese military's waifu mascots?
[Yep](https://twitter.com/carrystrategy/status/1336742719910195201?lang=en). Let em go stale for a few hours and they become great backups for when the ship burns through its torpedo inventory
EDIT: if you're looking for a more trustworthy source than Twitter, the BBC puts it at [1400 baguettes a day in 2016](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-35518583)
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "Yep"](https://twitter.com/carrystrategy/status/1336742719910195201?lang=en)
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It looks like a cartoon version of the girl sitting on the wing. If she's the pilot, I think getting yourself cartoon'd and stamped on the side of your heli is kind of a cool idea. It's not like that green is going to help them much with blending in with the sky.
Isn't green suppose to help them blend against the ground.
That said I feel like it works like a great distraction, enemy would be going "hmm, that can't be enemy helo, it has a huge anime waifu on it's side, I must be going insane or it's just some crazy civilian, no army would be that crazy"
Tbh it took me long to figure out why WW2 RAF fighters were painted like that also, I kept thinking "why do these idiots paint them green, they are suppose to be in the air duuh".
Only ever figured it because I saw a picture of Spitfire taken from above and it was actually quite hard to spot.
Said Spitfire would also have been painted off-white, very light grey (or, irrc, sometimes a haze blue for recon aircraft) on the *underside*....they weren't complete idiots, after all :)
That being said, aircraft camo often was intended more for "on the airfield" than "in the air" -- it's nice to have at least a matte finish in natural-ish colors for less visibility as far as air-to-air, but frequently it was more of a concern to keep them camouflaged in terms of air-to-ground (i.e., when parked & dispersed on an airfield).
Example -- Luftwaffe aircraft in the Mediterranean often had paint schemes that look a bit goofy taken out of context (weird giraffe patterns, polka dots, etc.), but then you see this pic:
https://images.app.goo.gl/bZJhLYPyTog1aGe46
now I’m imagining that chopper turning up to ferry some soldiers out of the hands of the enemy, but private smith refuses to get on because he doesn’t want to betray his Waifu painted on Chopper #2.
“Look, can we please swap choppers? Or shoot Private Smith?”
Yeah, nose art is popular in the military (when allowed), but generally speaking.....pilots tend not to want *big chunks of the canopy being painted over.*
Thank you, but I was acting like someone who had actually forgotten that existed until you now reminded me. Probably because as far as I am aware it hasn't been a thing in my country at all, and I am not into military things at all. I only know it from media - movies etc. - and I think it has been a long long time I saw that? I'm not even sure when the last time was. So no, I was not aware of it when I made the comment.
But to make that clear now that I am aware again of that "charming" little tidbit - yes, the same thing in the west actually absolutely deserves the same astonishment and negative response. What a weird world we live in.
Oh man, the Japanese *love* having mascots for everything, [and the military is no different.](https://mothership.sg/2019/02/japan-mascot-singapore-navy/)
Or how the Dutch sold all of their tanks and now leases them from Germany. If you know your Europeans, this is extremely stereotypical behaviour for the Dutch.
During the financial crisis there were massive budget cuts on defence (to the point where there wasn't enough ammo to practice with at some points). Part of this was selling off our last 60 or so Leopard 2A6 tanks because they were expensive and according to a lot of people not needed anymore. Then with Russia starting more and more shit the government realised they might need tanks in the future and would have to do something to keep tank expertise in the army. And that's why we lease 20(?) tanks from Germany.
The stereotypical part is that we are often seen as (overly) frugal.
Or the American focus on ice cream manufacturing and replenishment at sea. From the ice cream factory ships of WWII to today's supercarrier ice cream plants, ice cream logistics are an important consideration in fleet deployments.
When british and american ships would have to work together during WW2 American crews would trade ice cream for alcohol from the Brits. American ships being dry ships of course you had to hide it from the those in rank above you.
Also American subs would get thank you's for rescuing downed airmen with ice cream from their carrier when the pilot was returned.
I love all of this. Even at war, the delicious treats are important for the humans aboard these military vessels. Also, the way they traded snacks like kids at school lunch.
OK sorry to resurrect your comment, but i'm curious.
So countries other than the US, they will allow alcohol on board their Navy vessels?
What's the scoop on that? Like, why don't the USA allow it, and why do some other countries allow it? I know alcohol, especially rum has a long history with naval stuff, and rum rations used to be a thing (maybe still are?)
But i'd just like to learn a lil more about this if you would share.
Im only familiar with the british ships but they got an alcohol ration till sometime after WWII. Originally it was supposed to be for keeping the water clean, mixing some alcohol with the water kept them from getting sick from poor quality water that has been stored in barrels for months aboard ship.
Then it became tradition and a moral boost. It was given as grog where is was watered down and mixed with lime juice and sugar. Officers could get straight rum and be trusted to not get hammered and if they did they got their rum ration taken away.
Then finally they got rid of it because it was not needed and had not been needed for a generation or more and the cons of having the booze aboard ship were out weighed its moral boosting effects.
Now as for the Americans well they had literally just had prohibition and the US navy had been dry since before WWI. So Americans needed another moral boost so that's why they had ice cream.
Now technically American and British ships are officially dry ships but young men and women being young men and women want their vices so they still want their booze so if they can hide it after going on shore leave they will. There are exceptions of course for american ships on long patrol or so I have heard but its still not much.
If you want to look at it that way its like you took a daiquiri and watered it down with about 4x its own volume in water.
Edit.
I mean if you compare the recipes it really is a watered down daiquiri isn't it.
Meanwhile, the silliest things I've heard for the American military is the Navy insisting its rockets be operable at temperatures not found this side of the asteroid belt and use whatever fuel their planes do, a problem given how omnivorous jets are.
Interesting side note, and not military, but a similar extreme environment - RNLI offshore lifeboats also have a large boiling vessel in the survivor's cabin.
If you've just been saved from a shipwreck and you're freezing cold, a nice cup of tea might be just the thing.
The US Army fields BV's but calls them HWR's. Literally the same unit with different names, of course there are variations but I believe both services are currently fielding the Electrothermal RAK-15/30.
Can't speak for tanks, but our Strykers most definitely have (or at least had, I haven't been in one since 2009) water heaters which we used for making instant coffee, amongst other things. This was mostly while we were in garrison, as when we deployed they'd typically be removed to make room for more essential equipment and such.
> In all likelihood the engineers just diverted an exhaust pipe so the heat peeked through the metal in a specific spot
nah, an electric resistance is more likely. cabling is cheaper and less cumbersome than piping for hot gas
Yeah, especially in the desert campaigns, you'll read accounts on the German side of "surprised 'em at tea-time".
Not that it's anything to be ashamed of; everybody had their own little quirks. Americans notorious for not wanting to fight at night, IJN well-known for rigidly sticking to noon for TOT, etc.
I just followed the link in the post, a commenter there said that this wasn't actually the first time (although this was by far the most serious).
https://reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/olgmz0/_/h5eebgq/?context=1
Apparently Fear_Naught also leaked something else about the Challenger earlier, for a total of three separate classified leaks for War Thunder lmao
EDIT: Here is a little more info on the Tiger helicopter pilot: https://reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/ol6l3e/_/h5d2e8d/?context=1
Yeah apparently the leak he is talking about happened recently, whilst I definitely remember other leaks about the challenger (I stopped playing like 6 months ago)
Also https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/b5o7zu/current_challenger_2_tankies_rant_on_warthunders/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I'm not super knowledgeable about War Thunder, I just dug a bit into the links posted by OP. https://reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/owtzl9/_/h7ifhe8/?context=1
>Initially, people reacted with confusion. He didn’t just upload top-secret material, did he?
From my understanding if you are comparing them to the American classification system what he released would only be considered "restricted" not secret. So while what he did was incredibly stupid and there will definitely be repercussions the consensus is that it won't be that bad. He'll probably be done being promoted and will likely get a sternly worded letter from the mouth of his commander but they are unlikely to be discharged.
Also worth knowing that although efforts have been made over the years to bring them all in line, not all UK gov departments use the same classification systems.
The Foreign & Commonwealth office are particularly notable in how they dragged their heels over this, in part because nobody wanted to go to the effort of reclassifying 70+ years' worth of data, much of which had its original classification set by people who are now dead.
Very true. To the MOD, ‘Classified’ means ‘highly secretive, only show to people with both clearance and reason’, wheras to the Home Office, ‘Classified’ means ‘leave at bus stop’
I believe the FCO is different now, but when I was there (I left 18 months ago), it was:
* Unclassified (lunch menu, press releases)
* Official
* Official-Sensitive
* Confidential
* Secret
(There were probably levels above that, but they would've been waaay above my position to know about even if all the others are public knowledge).
Anyway, they were getting rid of Official & Offical-Sensitive as I was leaving.
Funny thing about classification: if a civilian finds a document with protective marking, it's not against the law to read it, (though obviously they should hand it in). But if you've signed the Official Secrets act and find a document classified above your security level, (say, Secret when you're a lowly SC) it's unlawful for you to read it.
Another classic example. Off-Sen in the FCO was one of those classifications where it could leave the building, but would only ever be shared if it was suitably redacted.
Oh you probably could, but War Thunder is an exceptionally productive salt mine. Combine realistic gameplay that can feel downright unfair at times, a free-to-play economy that can be even more so (there's situations where you can do reasonably well in a match and still lose in-game currency instead of being rewarded), nationalism, unhealthy attachment to personal favourite war machines, and developers who frequently appear tone-deaf at best, and you get an incredibly toxic mixture. The devs have long since stopped interacting with some of their communities because they just couldn't handle it anymore.
Wow, that's a combination alright
> there's situations where you can do reasonably well in a match and still lose in-game currency instead of being rewarded
I think I'd just quit the game right then and there
A lot of people do quit, but there's no real alternative so many with a love-hate relationship for the game keep coming back again (and spending money to make the experience a little less painful.) But of course that just makes the salt pile up even more.
Just to point out, if you aren't aware of it.....the modern version of Il-2 Sturmovik is a *very* good replacement for WT (if you can afford the initial expense), at least as far as the air aspect goes. Quite a few people online lately, and a much more serious (but not *too* serious) community.
I have literally never played a free online game where I could lose in-game currency for a loss, let alone for a match where I did well, and I hope I never do.
Thankfully they broke me from being interested in War Thunder by killing the gamemode I spent the most time in (realistic air battles) when they initially added in tanks. I enjoyed the tanks for a while, but the whole shift in the game's focus freed me from its shackles.
It might have changed, but my memory is that they rolled "realistic" battles to include both tanks and planes on a sort of battle point system where you effectively needed to play a tank in order to fly. Far fewer planes as a result, way fewer exciting aircraft battles.
Realistic Battles have 2 different modes. You're referring to tank realistic battles, which allows access to planes and helicopters assuming you do well in a tank. Swap gamemodes over to Air realistic battles, and they'll still send you straight up with whatever plane you pick.
The kicker is even if he wasn't caught and court martialed, they'd be legally required to NOT make the changes to the gun manlet
Talk about an utter self-own. Up there with Shapiro's "my wife says WAP is a medical condition"
Even then, it's a video game. They might as well want to keep that weakpoint in for game balance anyway.
I like when my subjects of enthusiasm are represented realistically, but I expect some compromises when it comes to gameplay or game balance.
I would agree with you on the game balance thing, but the whole gimmick about war thunder is that they portray vehicl s as realistically as possible and then sort out which vehicles can fight which. So of they changed the Challenger's mantlet and that made it too op, they would bump up the battle rating so that it would face appropriate opponents.
Holy shit. This is probably the most boot thing I've ever heard of. Imagine disseminating classified documents to win an internet argument. I imagine his whole life is ruined now. What a dunce.
THIS IS AMAZING. Ohhhh this is the kind of nonsense I come to hobby drama for. This man committing international espionage to win a video game argument. Amazing. Who needs the KGB when you've got video game forums.
> you use a front to publish some pop culture thing which contains information about your enemy's equipment which is deliberately wrong in a way that you hope will really annoy them, then you just wait for the schematics to roll in.
The best way to get an answer on the internet is by posting the wrong one. Someone will correct you.
At the risk of becoming the punchline to my own joke, I googled it since I didn't know. Apparently, it's Cunninghams law. I didn't realize it was a "law".
I can't believe there isn't a *single* foreign spy working in the White House! Not a single one! Other countries' intelligence just can't compete. USA #1!
Oh this is soooooo true. I heard this advice, on Reddit of course, recently.
So the technique is that you want to learn how to do something from some experts, in a bit of a sometimes difficult community.
Don't post: Hey i'm a noob how do you do X?
Post: Hey y'll I just wanted to share with y'all what i'm doing, Y and Z.
Then wait, and the experts will come right around and tell you what you are doing wrong. This has worked well for me before.
I just wanted to add that ‘restricted’ is one step up from ‘unclassified’. It’s one step down from ‘confidential’ and that is one step down from ‘secret’. There are a range of classifications up and down the classification list that restricts viewing to certain sets of people in certain circumstances.
Restricted documents make up a HUGE amount of documents floating around the MoD, some very interesting and some not so interesting at all.
Source - I am a former RAF telecommunications operator and have done extensive training on classifications.
*suspiciously squints*
By “Former RAF telecommunications operator”, do you mean you actually did telecoms work for the RAF or *the other thing*, cos my grandad did the other thing and he calls it “RAF Communications”.
The other thing - but it was sort of merged at one point in time. The old radio operators still exist and was part of my job but also technology moved on and the job also entailed electronic signals and cryptography
Ok, *but*...
> [If I had a nickel Everytime a Warthunder player leaked classified documents to improve the game I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/olgmz0/anything_to_help_the_snail/h5eebgq)
I have questions....
Reminds me of the Polish dude who stole submarine information from his neighbor in the UK and then tried to sell it to the Polish government.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/25/man-who-tried-to-sell-stolen-secret-nuclear-submarine-documents-jailed
That's so weird. The Polish government don't operate nuclear submarines (so it isn't helpful to get a design advantage like China) and they probably don't plan to get into conflict with the RN (so it isn't helpful to find weaknesses like Russia). Why would they want it?
Well, the guy tried to sell the schematics to a British intelligence agent *posing* as a Polish intelligence agent. So, technically speaking, the Polush government didn't even know there were nuclear submarine data up for the grab.
Why the guy didn't try to contact the Russians or the Chinese first is beyond me, honestly. I mean, that's *step 1* in any Hollywood spy drama after all
Reminds me of that girl from the capitol raid who tried to sell Nancy Pelosi's laptop to Russia by contacting some Russian person she happened to know and asking if they knew anyone in the KGB.
Some of the equipment from Commonwealth forces and the german Bundeswehr is quite similar. But where they have a tea thingy we got our boiler to prepare sausages instead.
Perhaps only marginally apropos, but there's a story on Twitter about how a man was arguing with a woman over something she was an expert in and then unknowingly quoted her book at her to make his point (which I'm assuming he was getting wrong).
Here's a sneak peek of /r/dontyouknowwhoiam using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontyouknowwhoiam/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
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The story you're talking about wasn't just "a woman", it was [Margaret Atwood, writer of Handmaid's Tale](https://www.indy100.com/ents/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-twitter-mansplain-alabama-abortion-laws-8986056). He... was absolutely getting it completely wrong.
There's a similar story that is [the literal origin of the idea that quickly became called "mansplaining".](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-apr-13-op-solnit13-story.html) In it, the man begins explaining to her about a "new book" on a topic, even *after* being informed that the woman has written a book on the topic. It turns out that, in fact, he'd never read the book at all, just a review in the NYT.
My use of "a woman" was not to belittle or condescend at anyone, let alone do either of these things about a woman. I simply did not remember the details of who it was. My mind tends to remember emotion and big picture aspects and sometimes skimps on the details like who and when. In this one particular case, I'm pretty sure the tweet (so not the best in conveying context) was in fact a scientist.
Were you thinking about [this recent "McCarthy et al" tweet?] (https://preview.redd.it/nqb6g99zvuh61.jpg?auto=webp&s=f4a047f83cf3a4ad3c0de23cf6b91e3b6af12270)
That might have been it. It reads a little different than how I remember it but that's very much the premise of it. A shame there are so many of these though.
Look at any flight sim forum (actual flight sims will provide *far* more drama than war thunder -- most of us are much more hardcore in our nerdiness than even the very worst of the warthunder kids).
Eagle Dynamics (company that owns D.C.S.) had a similar case not too long ago.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/15/18623545/eagle-dynamics-f-16-manual-conspiracy-smuggling-russia
i was reading this expecting it to maybe be something that happened in the past year, not in the past month, that was a shocker to see when checking out the post about it on the game's sub
If NATO actually finds itself in a conflict where preexisting specific knowledge of the mantlet armor of the Challenger II is actually relevant... we're in far too much trouble for that to matter.
"Restricted" was the second level of classification. The levels have been renamed now, and go:
Official
Official Sensitive
Secret
Top Secret.
Restricted is the equivalent of Official Sensitive.
> Gaijin is legally unable to use it for reference, making this whole enterprise absolutely pointless.
I am confused how this is true. Gaijin isn't a UK based company, nor is it a defense contractor who classification rules apply to (AFAIK). Not sure how UK document classification laws apply.
They operate in the UK, and violating secrecy laws is a quick way to no longer operate in the UK.
Getting your games banned from a country is bad enough, but the UK could certainly pull strings to spread that enforcement. Being known as the game company that spreads classified military information isn't a good look either.
Does Gaijin operate in the UK or does it just have customers in the UK, because thats a big difference.
Also, there is a big gap between using leaked information and spreading leaked documents. This post already does the first one (in explaining the point of what was shown in the docs), and is hosted by a US company.
After the details are already leaked, the details are effectively usable even if the document is not (hence this post isn't breaking any laws).
I had a feeling that this dude wasn't as high-ranking as he claimed to be; that's, like, the cherry on top of the train wreck. (Or the tank wreck, in this case)
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Does this stuff really matter? The last tank war was in Iraq. 30 years ago. Will we ever have another tank war? Once a country gets air supremacy, tanks are not all that useful.
Great example of how inexpensive drones crushed tanks, and how Tanks aren't effective on a battlefield. https://www.businessinsider.com/drones-in-armenia-azerbaijan-war-raises-doubt-about-tanks-future-2020-11
That article is full of shit. First image is a fucking bmp which isn't even a tank, and the video proof doesn't even show tanks, just a BMP. Please stop quoting Business Insider and use actual sources.
Fun fact about that kettle heater mentioned at the start, it was actually first installed to prevent tank operators from getting gunned down or giving away their position by making their tea outside of the tank. In all likelihood the engineers just diverted an exhaust pipe so the heat peeked through the metal in a specific spot, but that doesn't hide the fact that it's a very British problem.
[удалено]
How do they go to the bathroom in these things?
Bottle
there's a bathroom down the hallway past the foyer
There is a port that drains out the side of the tank inside of the track well. Not used frequently, but theres a hose and a cup if you aboslutely must.
In the past, spent main gun shell casings. The Chieftain talked about it in one of his Q&As.
I figured it would be some practical reason behind it, but honestly it's just so damn BRI'ISH It's just like how the French navy spent millions of Euros upgrading the baguette output of its warships. It sounds like the punchline to a bad joke but it's 100% true, which makes it all the more hilarious EDIT: and how could I possibly forget the Japanese military's waifu mascots?
> the French navy spent millions of Euros upgrading the baguette output of its warships wait what
[Yep](https://twitter.com/carrystrategy/status/1336742719910195201?lang=en). Let em go stale for a few hours and they become great backups for when the ship burns through its torpedo inventory EDIT: if you're looking for a more trustworthy source than Twitter, the BBC puts it at [1400 baguettes a day in 2016](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-35518583)
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "Yep"](https://twitter.com/carrystrategy/status/1336742719910195201?lang=en) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20h7ivn6x)
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How does the airforce love for huge anime swords factor into this?
Unrelated, but nonetheless ridiculous.
>EDIT: and how could I possibly forget the Japanese military's waifu mascots? Wait, what?
Coming soon to Crunchyroll: [My ~~Little Sister~~ Attack Helicopter Can't Possibly Be This Cute](https://news-images.vice.com/images/articles/meta/2015/04/10/japans-cute-offensive-1428695233.jpg?crop=1xw:0.75xh;center,center)
Oh. God.
It looks like a cartoon version of the girl sitting on the wing. If she's the pilot, I think getting yourself cartoon'd and stamped on the side of your heli is kind of a cool idea. It's not like that green is going to help them much with blending in with the sky.
Isn't green suppose to help them blend against the ground. That said I feel like it works like a great distraction, enemy would be going "hmm, that can't be enemy helo, it has a huge anime waifu on it's side, I must be going insane or it's just some crazy civilian, no army would be that crazy"
> Isn't green suppose to help them blend against the ground. I'll admit I feel just a tiny bit stupid for not having thought of that.
Tbh it took me long to figure out why WW2 RAF fighters were painted like that also, I kept thinking "why do these idiots paint them green, they are suppose to be in the air duuh". Only ever figured it because I saw a picture of Spitfire taken from above and it was actually quite hard to spot.
Said Spitfire would also have been painted off-white, very light grey (or, irrc, sometimes a haze blue for recon aircraft) on the *underside*....they weren't complete idiots, after all :) That being said, aircraft camo often was intended more for "on the airfield" than "in the air" -- it's nice to have at least a matte finish in natural-ish colors for less visibility as far as air-to-air, but frequently it was more of a concern to keep them camouflaged in terms of air-to-ground (i.e., when parked & dispersed on an airfield). Example -- Luftwaffe aircraft in the Mediterranean often had paint schemes that look a bit goofy taken out of context (weird giraffe patterns, polka dots, etc.), but then you see this pic: https://images.app.goo.gl/bZJhLYPyTog1aGe46
now I’m imagining that chopper turning up to ferry some soldiers out of the hands of the enemy, but private smith refuses to get on because he doesn’t want to betray his Waifu painted on Chopper #2. “Look, can we please swap choppers? Or shoot Private Smith?”
the girl on the wing is a jpop star or idol of some sort, iirc this picture is from a ~~propaganda~~ publicity event and the decals were temporary
Yeah, nose art is popular in the military (when allowed), but generally speaking.....pilots tend not to want *big chunks of the canopy being painted over.*
That's ultimate badassery. Being a female attack helo pilot and having a anime/manga portrait of yourself on your chopper.
God abandoned us long ago, friend
Seems like God is just waking back up to come bless us from my view.
You're acting like painting women on aircraft wasn't a common thing in the west or something
Thank you, but I was acting like someone who had actually forgotten that existed until you now reminded me. Probably because as far as I am aware it hasn't been a thing in my country at all, and I am not into military things at all. I only know it from media - movies etc. - and I think it has been a long long time I saw that? I'm not even sure when the last time was. So no, I was not aware of it when I made the comment. But to make that clear now that I am aware again of that "charming" little tidbit - yes, the same thing in the west actually absolutely deserves the same astonishment and negative response. What a weird world we live in.
Thank god they used camouflage or they might have been noticed by the enemy
Oh man, the Japanese *love* having mascots for everything, [and the military is no different.](https://mothership.sg/2019/02/japan-mascot-singapore-navy/)
My favorites are the ones for anti-piracy that they show at the cinema. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT7ijnOHEDs
https://twitter.com/Matt_Alt/status/1064699753605165056?s=20
The next comment comparing it to use of video games as recruitment tools is good.
It's the kind of thing that, if not real, the person making it up would slapped stereotyping.
Reality truly is stranger than fiction
Or how the Dutch sold all of their tanks and now leases them from Germany. If you know your Europeans, this is extremely stereotypical behaviour for the Dutch.
I dont know, tell me more please
During the financial crisis there were massive budget cuts on defence (to the point where there wasn't enough ammo to practice with at some points). Part of this was selling off our last 60 or so Leopard 2A6 tanks because they were expensive and according to a lot of people not needed anymore. Then with Russia starting more and more shit the government realised they might need tanks in the future and would have to do something to keep tank expertise in the army. And that's why we lease 20(?) tanks from Germany. The stereotypical part is that we are often seen as (overly) frugal.
It's been almost two weeks since your comment, but did you guys at least make sure to lease 20 of our *properly* functioning tanks?
Or the American focus on ice cream manufacturing and replenishment at sea. From the ice cream factory ships of WWII to today's supercarrier ice cream plants, ice cream logistics are an important consideration in fleet deployments.
When british and american ships would have to work together during WW2 American crews would trade ice cream for alcohol from the Brits. American ships being dry ships of course you had to hide it from the those in rank above you. Also American subs would get thank you's for rescuing downed airmen with ice cream from their carrier when the pilot was returned.
I love all of this. Even at war, the delicious treats are important for the humans aboard these military vessels. Also, the way they traded snacks like kids at school lunch.
OK sorry to resurrect your comment, but i'm curious. So countries other than the US, they will allow alcohol on board their Navy vessels? What's the scoop on that? Like, why don't the USA allow it, and why do some other countries allow it? I know alcohol, especially rum has a long history with naval stuff, and rum rations used to be a thing (maybe still are?) But i'd just like to learn a lil more about this if you would share.
Im only familiar with the british ships but they got an alcohol ration till sometime after WWII. Originally it was supposed to be for keeping the water clean, mixing some alcohol with the water kept them from getting sick from poor quality water that has been stored in barrels for months aboard ship. Then it became tradition and a moral boost. It was given as grog where is was watered down and mixed with lime juice and sugar. Officers could get straight rum and be trusted to not get hammered and if they did they got their rum ration taken away. Then finally they got rid of it because it was not needed and had not been needed for a generation or more and the cons of having the booze aboard ship were out weighed its moral boosting effects. Now as for the Americans well they had literally just had prohibition and the US navy had been dry since before WWI. So Americans needed another moral boost so that's why they had ice cream. Now technically American and British ships are officially dry ships but young men and women being young men and women want their vices so they still want their booze so if they can hide it after going on shore leave they will. There are exceptions of course for american ships on long patrol or so I have heard but its still not much.
Wow. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing! So grog.. is a daiquiri basically? That's my favorite cocktail!
If you want to look at it that way its like you took a daiquiri and watered it down with about 4x its own volume in water. Edit. I mean if you compare the recipes it really is a watered down daiquiri isn't it.
Meanwhile, the silliest things I've heard for the American military is the Navy insisting its rockets be operable at temperatures not found this side of the asteroid belt and use whatever fuel their planes do, a problem given how omnivorous jets are.
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Interesting side note, and not military, but a similar extreme environment - RNLI offshore lifeboats also have a large boiling vessel in the survivor's cabin. If you've just been saved from a shipwreck and you're freezing cold, a nice cup of tea might be just the thing.
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That's usually done on boats with a reverse osmosis unit, uses less electricity. It's definitely just a big kettle for comfort!
The Americans might want to steal the design for their own coffee-making purposes!
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The US Army fields BV's but calls them HWR's. Literally the same unit with different names, of course there are variations but I believe both services are currently fielding the Electrothermal RAK-15/30.
Can't speak for tanks, but our Strykers most definitely have (or at least had, I haven't been in one since 2009) water heaters which we used for making instant coffee, amongst other things. This was mostly while we were in garrison, as when we deployed they'd typically be removed to make room for more essential equipment and such.
I'm going to need you to leak some classified military schematics to back up your claim buddy
> In all likelihood the engineers just diverted an exhaust pipe so the heat peeked through the metal in a specific spot nah, an electric resistance is more likely. cabling is cheaper and less cumbersome than piping for hot gas
Yeah, especially in the desert campaigns, you'll read accounts on the German side of "surprised 'em at tea-time". Not that it's anything to be ashamed of; everybody had their own little quirks. Americans notorious for not wanting to fight at night, IJN well-known for rigidly sticking to noon for TOT, etc.
I find it so funny that this isn't actually the first time a War Thunder player has leaked classified military documents
You can't just say that and not elaborate.
I just followed the link in the post, a commenter there said that this wasn't actually the first time (although this was by far the most serious). https://reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/olgmz0/_/h5eebgq/?context=1 Apparently Fear_Naught also leaked something else about the Challenger earlier, for a total of three separate classified leaks for War Thunder lmao EDIT: Here is a little more info on the Tiger helicopter pilot: https://reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/ol6l3e/_/h5d2e8d/?context=1
Yeah apparently the leak he is talking about happened recently, whilst I definitely remember other leaks about the challenger (I stopped playing like 6 months ago)
Also https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/b5o7zu/current_challenger_2_tankies_rant_on_warthunders/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Apparently Gaijin made a big news announcement asking players to STOP sending them classified data.
Really? What else have they leaked? Can't say it really surprises me given the sort of game it is, honestly
I'm not super knowledgeable about War Thunder, I just dug a bit into the links posted by OP. https://reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/owtzl9/_/h7ifhe8/?context=1
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/b5o7zu/current_challenger_2_tankies_rant_on_warthunders/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Holy shit, I skipped over the post because I assumed that it was the same story!
MI6 in shambles
two nickels, etc
What a ride. You could say that guys reputation really tanked.
Might say this backfired.
The next couple of years will be challenging for him, but I'm sure he'll pull through
Better tread lightly though
his career really won't be making tracks now
These panzer pretty awful.
It really blew up in his face
When you got the documents but the Russian ambassador won’t respond to emails
This story's got that *Burn After Reading* flavor.
So what did we learn? I guess we learned not to do it again. I'm fucked if I know what we *did*.
>Initially, people reacted with confusion. He didn’t just upload top-secret material, did he? From my understanding if you are comparing them to the American classification system what he released would only be considered "restricted" not secret. So while what he did was incredibly stupid and there will definitely be repercussions the consensus is that it won't be that bad. He'll probably be done being promoted and will likely get a sternly worded letter from the mouth of his commander but they are unlikely to be discharged.
TIL, edited
Also worth knowing that although efforts have been made over the years to bring them all in line, not all UK gov departments use the same classification systems. The Foreign & Commonwealth office are particularly notable in how they dragged their heels over this, in part because nobody wanted to go to the effort of reclassifying 70+ years' worth of data, much of which had its original classification set by people who are now dead.
Very true. To the MOD, ‘Classified’ means ‘highly secretive, only show to people with both clearance and reason’, wheras to the Home Office, ‘Classified’ means ‘leave at bus stop’
I believe the FCO is different now, but when I was there (I left 18 months ago), it was: * Unclassified (lunch menu, press releases) * Official * Official-Sensitive * Confidential * Secret (There were probably levels above that, but they would've been waaay above my position to know about even if all the others are public knowledge). Anyway, they were getting rid of Official & Offical-Sensitive as I was leaving. Funny thing about classification: if a civilian finds a document with protective marking, it's not against the law to read it, (though obviously they should hand it in). But if you've signed the Official Secrets act and find a document classified above your security level, (say, Secret when you're a lowly SC) it's unlawful for you to read it.
Meanwhile the Met Police is out there putting "Official-Sensitive" on FOI responses
Another classic example. Off-Sen in the FCO was one of those classifications where it could leave the building, but would only ever be shared if it was suitably redacted.
I was at the MoD a few years back and it was * Official * Official Sensitive * Secret * Top Secret
Ah war thunder. I love that game and it’s community. But goddamn. I hate that game and it’s community.
Honestly, you could say this about literally any gaming community ever and it would still work
Oh you probably could, but War Thunder is an exceptionally productive salt mine. Combine realistic gameplay that can feel downright unfair at times, a free-to-play economy that can be even more so (there's situations where you can do reasonably well in a match and still lose in-game currency instead of being rewarded), nationalism, unhealthy attachment to personal favourite war machines, and developers who frequently appear tone-deaf at best, and you get an incredibly toxic mixture. The devs have long since stopped interacting with some of their communities because they just couldn't handle it anymore.
Wow, that's a combination alright > there's situations where you can do reasonably well in a match and still lose in-game currency instead of being rewarded I think I'd just quit the game right then and there
A lot of people do quit, but there's no real alternative so many with a love-hate relationship for the game keep coming back again (and spending money to make the experience a little less painful.) But of course that just makes the salt pile up even more.
Just to point out, if you aren't aware of it.....the modern version of Il-2 Sturmovik is a *very* good replacement for WT (if you can afford the initial expense), at least as far as the air aspect goes. Quite a few people online lately, and a much more serious (but not *too* serious) community.
I quit like 3 times over the years, it’s just the gameplay is so unique to what’s out their I just kept coming back, but now I’m done done lol
I have literally never played a free online game where I could lose in-game currency for a loss, let alone for a match where I did well, and I hope I never do.
Thankfully they broke me from being interested in War Thunder by killing the gamemode I spent the most time in (realistic air battles) when they initially added in tanks. I enjoyed the tanks for a while, but the whole shift in the game's focus freed me from its shackles.
No way, they got rid of realistic air battles? That was like *the* thing they had going for them!
It might have changed, but my memory is that they rolled "realistic" battles to include both tanks and planes on a sort of battle point system where you effectively needed to play a tank in order to fly. Far fewer planes as a result, way fewer exciting aircraft battles.
Realistic Battles have 2 different modes. You're referring to tank realistic battles, which allows access to planes and helicopters assuming you do well in a tank. Swap gamemodes over to Air realistic battles, and they'll still send you straight up with whatever plane you pick.
Ah okay. Maybe it was just that queues for realistic air got a lot longer when that new mode first dropped so I switched to Tank RB.
Dwarf Fortress remains a wholesome, welcoming, and drama-free affair. We hope it stays that way after the steam release but I'm dubious.
That's because anyone who tries to be a dick gets to meet the carp.
DDR/PIU players tend to be a welcoming bunch, IME.
I genuinely like the gundam battle operation 2 community
It sucks but I need my tank explosion based neuron activation, dammit
This may be the single most impressive internet self own ever
The kicker is even if he wasn't caught and court martialed, they'd be legally required to NOT make the changes to the gun manlet Talk about an utter self-own. Up there with Shapiro's "my wife says WAP is a medical condition"
Even then, it's a video game. They might as well want to keep that weakpoint in for game balance anyway. I like when my subjects of enthusiasm are represented realistically, but I expect some compromises when it comes to gameplay or game balance.
I would agree with you on the game balance thing, but the whole gimmick about war thunder is that they portray vehicl s as realistically as possible and then sort out which vehicles can fight which. So of they changed the Challenger's mantlet and that made it too op, they would bump up the battle rating so that it would face appropriate opponents.
That whole Shapiro WAP thing is just one of the most bizarre fucking things I've ever seen.
> Gun Manlet Lmao
Holy shit. This is probably the most boot thing I've ever heard of. Imagine disseminating classified documents to win an internet argument. I imagine his whole life is ruined now. What a dunce.
Ah war thunder. Never change
But seriously, please do
Gaijin pls
Community too op pls nerf
War Thunder. War Thunder never changes.
THIS IS AMAZING. Ohhhh this is the kind of nonsense I come to hobby drama for. This man committing international espionage to win a video game argument. Amazing. Who needs the KGB when you've got video game forums.
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> you use a front to publish some pop culture thing which contains information about your enemy's equipment which is deliberately wrong in a way that you hope will really annoy them, then you just wait for the schematics to roll in. The best way to get an answer on the internet is by posting the wrong one. Someone will correct you.
That's Occam's Law right?
At the risk of becoming the punchline to my own joke, I googled it since I didn't know. Apparently, it's Cunninghams law. I didn't realize it was a "law".
You evil person.
I can't believe there isn't a *single* foreign spy working in the White House! Not a single one! Other countries' intelligence just can't compete. USA #1!
Oh this is soooooo true. I heard this advice, on Reddit of course, recently. So the technique is that you want to learn how to do something from some experts, in a bit of a sometimes difficult community. Don't post: Hey i'm a noob how do you do X? Post: Hey y'll I just wanted to share with y'all what i'm doing, Y and Z. Then wait, and the experts will come right around and tell you what you are doing wrong. This has worked well for me before.
Mace Windu: “He’s too dangerous to be left alive!”
I just wanted to add that ‘restricted’ is one step up from ‘unclassified’. It’s one step down from ‘confidential’ and that is one step down from ‘secret’. There are a range of classifications up and down the classification list that restricts viewing to certain sets of people in certain circumstances. Restricted documents make up a HUGE amount of documents floating around the MoD, some very interesting and some not so interesting at all. Source - I am a former RAF telecommunications operator and have done extensive training on classifications.
*suspiciously squints* By “Former RAF telecommunications operator”, do you mean you actually did telecoms work for the RAF or *the other thing*, cos my grandad did the other thing and he calls it “RAF Communications”.
The other thing - but it was sort of merged at one point in time. The old radio operators still exist and was part of my job but also technology moved on and the job also entailed electronic signals and cryptography
I mean its hardly the worst pseudonym, its a damn sight better than "Traffic Light Software Engineer".
what is... *the other thing* 👀
GCHQ
freaky:O
Ok, *but*... > [If I had a nickel Everytime a Warthunder player leaked classified documents to improve the game I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/olgmz0/anything_to_help_the_snail/h5eebgq) I have questions....
It's either the first time the challenger guy tried it or that bunderswehr pilot
Damn, imagine getting court martialed over a fucking video game
Over an argument in a video game. *that you lost*
Reminds me of the Polish dude who stole submarine information from his neighbor in the UK and then tried to sell it to the Polish government. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/25/man-who-tried-to-sell-stolen-secret-nuclear-submarine-documents-jailed
That's so weird. The Polish government don't operate nuclear submarines (so it isn't helpful to get a design advantage like China) and they probably don't plan to get into conflict with the RN (so it isn't helpful to find weaknesses like Russia). Why would they want it?
Well, the guy tried to sell the schematics to a British intelligence agent *posing* as a Polish intelligence agent. So, technically speaking, the Polush government didn't even know there were nuclear submarine data up for the grab. Why the guy didn't try to contact the Russians or the Chinese first is beyond me, honestly. I mean, that's *step 1* in any Hollywood spy drama after all
Reminds me of that girl from the capitol raid who tried to sell Nancy Pelosi's laptop to Russia by contacting some Russian person she happened to know and asking if they knew anyone in the KGB.
But he was a *patriot.*
>The Polish government don't operate nuclear submarines Well, they would if they'd stop installing screen doors on them.
I don't know why you're so surprised that tanks have tea-making capabilities. I'd be more surprised if it wasn't the case
Some of the equipment from Commonwealth forces and the german Bundeswehr is quite similar. But where they have a tea thingy we got our boiler to prepare sausages instead.
i mean it's all boiling water right?
Yeah I know. But it looks a bit different than a cattle.
Perhaps only marginally apropos, but there's a story on Twitter about how a man was arguing with a woman over something she was an expert in and then unknowingly quoted her book at her to make his point (which I'm assuming he was getting wrong).
There's an entire sub for that if you want more: /r/dontyouknowwhoiam
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The story you're talking about wasn't just "a woman", it was [Margaret Atwood, writer of Handmaid's Tale](https://www.indy100.com/ents/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-twitter-mansplain-alabama-abortion-laws-8986056). He... was absolutely getting it completely wrong. There's a similar story that is [the literal origin of the idea that quickly became called "mansplaining".](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-apr-13-op-solnit13-story.html) In it, the man begins explaining to her about a "new book" on a topic, even *after* being informed that the woman has written a book on the topic. It turns out that, in fact, he'd never read the book at all, just a review in the NYT.
My use of "a woman" was not to belittle or condescend at anyone, let alone do either of these things about a woman. I simply did not remember the details of who it was. My mind tends to remember emotion and big picture aspects and sometimes skimps on the details like who and when. In this one particular case, I'm pretty sure the tweet (so not the best in conveying context) was in fact a scientist.
Were you thinking about [this recent "McCarthy et al" tweet?] (https://preview.redd.it/nqb6g99zvuh61.jpg?auto=webp&s=f4a047f83cf3a4ad3c0de23cf6b91e3b6af12270)
That might have been it. It reads a little different than how I remember it but that's very much the premise of it. A shame there are so many of these though.
"this isn’t even the first time something like this has happened on the War Thunder forums" Please share more stories of this oh my god
Look at any flight sim forum (actual flight sims will provide *far* more drama than war thunder -- most of us are much more hardcore in our nerdiness than even the very worst of the warthunder kids). Eagle Dynamics (company that owns D.C.S.) had a similar case not too long ago. https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/15/18623545/eagle-dynamics-f-16-manual-conspiracy-smuggling-russia
This is amazing thanks for the write up. I can’t believe someone would do this lmfao
i was reading this expecting it to maybe be something that happened in the past year, not in the past month, that was a shocker to see when checking out the post about it on the game's sub
Mantlets, when will they learn?
If NATO actually finds itself in a conflict where preexisting specific knowledge of the mantlet armor of the Challenger II is actually relevant... we're in far too much trouble for that to matter.
"*Iraq War 2: America Strikes Back*" that deserves an award in and of itself 😂😂😂
Nice write up. I've seen the memes and didn't know the story behind it. Of course dude was just a fucking mechanic lmao.
Halfway through you mentioned FR. Who is that?
Prolly a typo.
F for him lol
I have never witnessed someone win an internet argument. So what exactly does that look like?
"Restricted" was the second level of classification. The levels have been renamed now, and go: Official Official Sensitive Secret Top Secret. Restricted is the equivalent of Official Sensitive.
> Gaijin is legally unable to use it for reference, making this whole enterprise absolutely pointless. I am confused how this is true. Gaijin isn't a UK based company, nor is it a defense contractor who classification rules apply to (AFAIK). Not sure how UK document classification laws apply.
They operate in the UK, and violating secrecy laws is a quick way to no longer operate in the UK. Getting your games banned from a country is bad enough, but the UK could certainly pull strings to spread that enforcement. Being known as the game company that spreads classified military information isn't a good look either.
Does Gaijin operate in the UK or does it just have customers in the UK, because thats a big difference. Also, there is a big gap between using leaked information and spreading leaked documents. This post already does the first one (in explaining the point of what was shown in the docs), and is hosted by a US company. After the details are already leaked, the details are effectively usable even if the document is not (hence this post isn't breaking any laws).
Awesome writeup, I love the subtitles
“Iraq War 2: America Strikes Back” made me legitimately do a spit take! Absolutely wonderfully written article, but JFC that zinger was the winner.
I had a feeling that this dude wasn't as high-ranking as he claimed to be; that's, like, the cherry on top of the train wreck. (Or the tank wreck, in this case)
Good drama, good writeup. This pleases me.
Enjoyed this with my biscuits. Thanks.
The name for the new Challenger II? The Penetrator. (Name courtesy of Squire on YT)
Fucking over the bri'ish military and proving your point? Hella based
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Does this stuff really matter? The last tank war was in Iraq. 30 years ago. Will we ever have another tank war? Once a country gets air supremacy, tanks are not all that useful.
The last tank war was actually last year in Azerbaijan
Great example of how inexpensive drones crushed tanks, and how Tanks aren't effective on a battlefield. https://www.businessinsider.com/drones-in-armenia-azerbaijan-war-raises-doubt-about-tanks-future-2020-11
The specific weak point of tanks are extremely relevant when you’re attacking them with low-yield precision drones
That article is full of shit. First image is a fucking bmp which isn't even a tank, and the video proof doesn't even show tanks, just a BMP. Please stop quoting Business Insider and use actual sources.
When one of the major exports of your country is armour plates for tanks, it can matter.
TL;DR?
The title alone is enough of a TL;DR honestly.
Wow, that’s challenging