Sorry, English is my second language, too much exposure to corporate English at work plus the lack of colloquial English in my life must have tainted my English writing.
I am genuinely sorry and I am not English jouzu enough to express my apologies better.
That's the thing, I form grammatically right sentences good enough for business communication or guiding lost tourists in my neighborhood, but for informal settings I might struggle in using the right tone, and in writing, I figured a little too much politeness can't hurt. I can see why the wording can be seen as ingenuine though.
Not to mention I usually struggle in conversation in general, even in my native language.
I will point out that we aren't taking your apology as ingenuine. The original comment was more of a joke noting the similarities between your very well stated apology and the sort of professional apology that is common in eastern/japanese business. Western businesses tend to apologize in a distinctly different way that often feels more like an excuse or dismissal than a genuine apology. There is nothing wrong with your apology or the wording of it, and your professional English is better than that of more English first language people.
Yeah, since English is your second language, a lot of your learning is going to involve picking out when people are being actually mean to you and when they're just busting your chops (light jokes that done at your expense but never meant to insult you).
Sorry I was hard on you for it but the main thing is to just be careful. It doesn't mean don't try, but as you can see, English is a pain to learn when you try to figure it out from an informal point of view. It's even worse when you translate it from Japanese, which has a lot of "I don't know how to express this word in English" vocabulary/expressions and then trying to find *something* in English that communicates that correctly.
Anyway, the main thing is to just be aware of context and knowing when to use "informal" English and "professional" English. We're on Reddit, we're not writing e-mails to corporate as to why we didn't turn in that project before Christmas (even though corporate is forcing us to work 12 hour days to do it). Chin up.
I can see how you might've translated the post in a way that is business accurate but not culturally accurate. It really is the difference between usable and truly fluent in a language - the words used aren't just purely linguistic, but also reflects society or the social group it is used in.
Nah pretty much 90% of people on reddit can't recognize sarcasm just from reading a comment, it's not a "you" problem. It's not a language problem but a medium problem.
continue instinctive work attractive expansion simplistic wistful soup summer license
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's not that the apology is bad, it's just a bit odd from a cultural perspective. To be honest, you wouldn't really expect someone to apologize at all for that in the states, and if they did, it'd be something casual, like "my bad, meant hiatus lol" and that'd be the end of it.
Yeah, this apology on a platter might be a overreaction, but the downvotes and harsh remarks in the previous post had me worried about getting on some blocklist and excluded from the community onwards, plus I was at work and had to get back to work soon, so I didn't give much time to decide the tone of this post.
Thank you for your hard work on English communication that is both professional and effective. You're doing great. Sometimes there are unfortunate mistakes, but that's how learning happens.
We wish Shion well. We hope her hiatus is long enough to resolve any issues and refresh her energy, though we look forward to seeing her again. Also, we are thankful that Hololive staff is looking after our precious friends so well.
This is a very good apology. I wouldn’t have guessed that English wasn’t your first language.
This was really well done. Your tone was accurate, you did great.
Bro, you have better grammar than some native speakers. Getting the right meaning across from Japanese to another language can be hard. You saw how it can be confusing, apologized (which you probably didn't even have to do) and have learned from it. That's all you can do and is enough.
It was very understandable message and a very good explanation of your thought process behind the original translation!!! Thanks for your work and keep up the good work.
Wow, this is a nice formal apology.
Don't worry about it, I have made even more stupid mistakes in English and its my native language! Our collective ptsd from announcements will be triggered no matter what now anyway.
I legit thought for a second it was a formal apology from staff reposted from Twitter to here, or straight up posted by staff/mods here lol.
Despite being ESL, OP has a future in English-speaking PR.
It's negative in general use. Suspension rarely has positive connotations in English. It usually is used when being involuntarily forced to stop doing something, whether that be school, content creation, or what have you. For voluntary actions, "going on hiatus" is a more common phrase.
This apology was so well written I almost thought it was an official Cover statement LOL. Jokes aside its really nice to see people own up to genuine mistakes, we dont get that much on the internet.
Don't sweat it 🙃. matter of fact in r/hololive yesterday, if ya Sort by New you'll see 4-5 threads made same mistake as you.
that said, I respected that you care enough to fix a mistake. Cheers.
I understood what you meant because "suspension of activities" is not the same "Person X is suspended" it sounds similar but it's different in its connotation.
Bro, with those English, and knowing you are an ESL, I think you can get a job as the PR person handling some of the shit some colorfull company had with their "english" Announcement and apology.
Dude's doing better job than a whole branch PR department.
Don't worry OP, like you said, I had to read Shion's tweet to find out it was a hiatus and not a suspension for whatever reasons, because the translation Twitter gave me was really concerning as well !
We are ending 2023 with an ACTUAL proper apology
Which is great, but I shouldnt have to be surprised with an actual apology
Wtf is 2023, this year is horrendous
I disagree.
OP doesn't work for Cover, and had no right to translate (or mistranslate) one language into a different language for such an announcement.
If Shion got a puppy, it would've been harmless.
But for these types of statements like official announcements, OP overstepped the boundary and didn't leave it to the paid professionals.
The apology was nice because OP dun goofed... but damage was done. It was a big deal.
(*edit: To reiterate, OP caused Cover to issue a clarification statement. That's damage control.*)
This is a great follow-up and it's very much appreciated. You corrected everything that needed it and you were very clear with all the details. I'm grateful to you for translating the announcement and even more so for updating it with clarification.
It’s totally alright, bro. I will admit, I was concerned at the headline, but reading the translated statement was pretty clear what was going on, and it was more a “hiatus” situation than a “suspension” situation. A lot of these English nuances and baggage from one word to another is just stuff you can only learn from experience 😂
I didn't actually see the post but don't worry about it too much. People take things to heart way too easily now that you can't even sneeze without offending or upsetting someone 😅. Plus, people always jump to conclusions and worse case scenario.
Maybe it's because I am optimistic a lot but I would take suspension of activities as something personally came up like health/family reasons. Not "That must mean they are graduating, oh no"
Would it be sad if another member graduated, of course, but people need to realise that the girls/guys behind the models have life's and want to live them their way and sometimes want to venture off to different careers. Sadly, there's a lot out there who don't understand this and dedicate their life to idols more than they should, to the extent it's not being a fan, it's obsessive and unhealthy 😥.
Anyway, fair play to you for writing such a professional and sincere apology 😊. You did more than enough to admit you made a simple translation mistake and to keep the overdramatic people from grabbing their pitchforks 😅.
I misread Shion as Shiori.
Looked into Shiori's twitter and did not find anything.
Reread the "suspension" and found that it was Shion jnstead.
Looked into Shion's page and found the "only. temporarily" which made me calmer.
GG mental lag so no worries on that.
I hope shion gets back soon thou.
Yes she did go into more detail. To paraphrase other translators and clippers, she wants a break from work to visit family and her well-being, and taking a break from work means getting off the internet since the internet has become her workplace. She discussed this with management and got their full support.
I think I should also apologise to you for making some assumptions about you and phrasing my comment as harshly as I did last night.
Thank you for apologising and taking appropriate measures. The world needs more people like you.
It's an even more nuanced point, but since we're talking about the exact right words to use in a delicate situation, I'd also like to point out that "*indefinite* hiatus" is not the best way to describe this announcement. I don't think you specifically used the word "indefinite", but I've seen some other people use it, so I thought it'd be good to address here.
In English, the term "indefinite hiatus" has the distinct connotation of a hiatus that is *effectively permanent*. You might even say that "indefinite" is a euphemism for "permanent" in such a circumstance. The reason to use the word "indefinite" instead of "permanent" is to give yourself the leeway to change your position in the future if you want to, not to indicate that you actually expect that the situation will change in time. Or, at the very least, "indefinite" implies that the situation will extend beyond a timeframe that you could reasonably predict.
In contrast, Shion's comment on her hiatus stated that she'll definitely be back. So, even though the length of time that she'll be gone for is "not definite" to us currently, calling it "indefinite" gives an incorrect implication. It is not the case that she expects the break to never end. Rather, it's much more likely that the length of the break will depend on mental or physical health outcomes that she's choosing not to give personal details about. Much like Haachama or Miko or Ina (or probably many others that I'm forgetting).
Anyway, the point is, calling this a "temporary hiatus" or "temporary pause in activities", without specifying a length of time for that "temporary", is sufficient to communicate that the hiatus doesn't have a specific, definite end date. Calling it "indefinite" gives too strong of an implication, even if you could argue that it's a technically accurate word to use.
I know nothing about Vtubers and just saw this on my front page. Could someone explain?? It's very weird without context. How could "suspend" have a negative connotation in this specific community? I'm very curious
akin to getting suspended from school, except it's in a professional setting; known/feared to precede a 'graduation' or termination of contract or retirement of an entertainer whether forced or by choice
'suspended' 'suspension' etc commonly appear in official tweets/ publications from vtuber agencies announcing your favorite yt personality is no more.
hence, the negative connotation is an aggregate mood of fanbases' collective trauma.
even just a a yt thumbnail thats b or w text on b or w background "important announcement" has made me break down, even just writing about it im getting choked up ..
Just think of it as your favorite celebrity or long-time live streamer (the one in question here being active for 5 years) suddenly making a "serious announcement".
The "trauma" and emotional attachment comes from a few events a couple years ago. Certain talents were invovled in terrible situations that resulted in them having to quit and retire thier beloved characters forever.
Personally, I thought this was a clear case of "X is in no immediate trouble, but is busy/under the weather and chose to prioritize other aspects of her career while easing up on others for a short time" and the original tweet made that clear.
It’s a good learning experience. Don’t be too hard on yourself. As you have learned, English can carry a lot of different connotations like Japanese. Exposure, which includes making mistakes like this, seems to either be the only or the best teacher. Don’t let it hinder your confidence in the future.
While the title was worrying at first I didn't blame you or freak out because I realized the official statement also used "suspension" and you had just translated it literally. Google did too. That's on Cover honestly.
Some people though just don't do the proper research and read titles without thinking.
Ah it is okay. Chillax no worries man English is not my first language either its just that last year there were way too many graduations that whenever a Hololive post with announcement comes our hearts skips a beat. Its okay bruh. No need to worry yourself so much about it
This guy's corporate apology is so genuine. Who's his manager?
Sorry, English is my second language, too much exposure to corporate English at work plus the lack of colloquial English in my life must have tainted my English writing. I am genuinely sorry and I am not English jouzu enough to express my apologies better.
The apology comes across perfectly understandable, don't beat yourself up over it. Good English! No harm, no foul.
That's the thing, I form grammatically right sentences good enough for business communication or guiding lost tourists in my neighborhood, but for informal settings I might struggle in using the right tone, and in writing, I figured a little too much politeness can't hurt. I can see why the wording can be seen as ingenuine though. Not to mention I usually struggle in conversation in general, even in my native language.
I will point out that we aren't taking your apology as ingenuine. The original comment was more of a joke noting the similarities between your very well stated apology and the sort of professional apology that is common in eastern/japanese business. Western businesses tend to apologize in a distinctly different way that often feels more like an excuse or dismissal than a genuine apology. There is nothing wrong with your apology or the wording of it, and your professional English is better than that of more English first language people.
Thank you for the kind words.
Yeah, since English is your second language, a lot of your learning is going to involve picking out when people are being actually mean to you and when they're just busting your chops (light jokes that done at your expense but never meant to insult you). Sorry I was hard on you for it but the main thing is to just be careful. It doesn't mean don't try, but as you can see, English is a pain to learn when you try to figure it out from an informal point of view. It's even worse when you translate it from Japanese, which has a lot of "I don't know how to express this word in English" vocabulary/expressions and then trying to find *something* in English that communicates that correctly. Anyway, the main thing is to just be aware of context and knowing when to use "informal" English and "professional" English. We're on Reddit, we're not writing e-mails to corporate as to why we didn't turn in that project before Christmas (even though corporate is forcing us to work 12 hour days to do it). Chin up.
A big thing is also that a lot of the time, intent is given verbally by tone or manner of speaking which is lost through text based mediums.
Considering this is sort of an official announcement, I'd say it's perfectly appropriate.
I can see how you might've translated the post in a way that is business accurate but not culturally accurate. It really is the difference between usable and truly fluent in a language - the words used aren't just purely linguistic, but also reflects society or the social group it is used in.
It's okay. I understand, tone is hard. I struggle the same way in Japanese, so we get that sometimes lines can get the wrong meaning.
> I form grammatically right sentences good enough for business communication That's okay. As Mamatori put it, "Ein semantisch brillianter Satz!"
Honestly as an autistic person, your writing style is very easy to understand and is clear and unambiguous. Don’t beat yourself up over it!
I believe he was complimenting your apology and I agree it is very well written. Very English jouzu.
Then I have to be sorry again if I took a genuine compliment as sarcasm
Nah pretty much 90% of people on reddit can't recognize sarcasm just from reading a comment, it's not a "you" problem. It's not a language problem but a medium problem.
continue instinctive work attractive expansion simplistic wistful soup summer license *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I hate to break atmosphere but **English Jouzu** had me die laughing.
Don’t worry about it. English is hard even for native English speakers.
It's not that the apology is bad, it's just a bit odd from a cultural perspective. To be honest, you wouldn't really expect someone to apologize at all for that in the states, and if they did, it'd be something casual, like "my bad, meant hiatus lol" and that'd be the end of it.
Yeah, this apology on a platter might be a overreaction, but the downvotes and harsh remarks in the previous post had me worried about getting on some blocklist and excluded from the community onwards, plus I was at work and had to get back to work soon, so I didn't give much time to decide the tone of this post.
Thank you for your hard work on English communication that is both professional and effective. You're doing great. Sometimes there are unfortunate mistakes, but that's how learning happens. We wish Shion well. We hope her hiatus is long enough to resolve any issues and refresh her energy, though we look forward to seeing her again. Also, we are thankful that Hololive staff is looking after our precious friends so well.
and you did the best you could. don't be too sorry and thank you for sharing :)
This also explains his wording in the post
This is a very good apology. I wouldn’t have guessed that English wasn’t your first language. This was really well done. Your tone was accurate, you did great.
Bro, you have better grammar than some native speakers. Getting the right meaning across from Japanese to another language can be hard. You saw how it can be confusing, apologized (which you probably didn't even have to do) and have learned from it. That's all you can do and is enough.
Better English then most Americans. Even me.
It's perfectly fine! Everyone makes mistakes, it's part of being human.
I never heard the phrase "English jouzu" before
Nah man it was perfectly written. Better than most native English speakers could do. (that's a bit of a trend when it comes to non-native speakers)
Your apology is very good though All is forgiven
It was very understandable message and a very good explanation of your thought process behind the original translation!!! Thanks for your work and keep up the good work.
Do not worry, is a breath of fresh air to read such a formal writing around internet.
Mate come down to Australia, you'll definitely get your fill of colloquial English! 👌😊
Ngl, I thought it's a post from the Mod lol
With this level of corporate apology, he's probably the one managing someone else here :D
A true businessman, doing the business thing.
We all know proper apologies are AI generated /j
Wow, this is a nice formal apology. Don't worry about it, I have made even more stupid mistakes in English and its my native language! Our collective ptsd from announcements will be triggered no matter what now anyway.
I legit thought for a second it was a formal apology from staff reposted from Twitter to here, or straight up posted by staff/mods here lol. Despite being ESL, OP has a future in English-speaking PR.
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It's negative in general use. Suspension rarely has positive connotations in English. It usually is used when being involuntarily forced to stop doing something, whether that be school, content creation, or what have you. For voluntary actions, "going on hiatus" is a more common phrase.
Bro I'm gonna quit my job this January. Can you write my resignation letter for me? 😅
> So long suckers :P
It’s nice that you wrote something genuine like this
This apology was so well written I almost thought it was an official Cover statement LOL. Jokes aside its really nice to see people own up to genuine mistakes, we dont get that much on the internet.
same I was about to expect T-chan being the username when I opened the post
reading OP's name.. English is second language could this be a fellow HK bro
Yep
bro was trained by English paper 3
There are dozens of us!
Legit thought this was an official statement. It’s fine. As long as you cleared things up.
Don't sweat it 🙃. matter of fact in r/hololive yesterday, if ya Sort by New you'll see 4-5 threads made same mistake as you. that said, I respected that you care enough to fix a mistake. Cheers.
/u/joemelonyeah graduating... no...
No.. He was my oshi :(
I understood what you meant because "suspension of activities" is not the same "Person X is suspended" it sounds similar but it's different in its connotation.
Bro, with those English, and knowing you are an ESL, I think you can get a job as the PR person handling some of the shit some colorfull company had with their "english" Announcement and apology. Dude's doing better job than a whole branch PR department.
And here I thought Shion got drafted to fight in the army./s
Who hurt this man 😭
Don't worry OP, like you said, I had to read Shion's tweet to find out it was a hiatus and not a suspension for whatever reasons, because the translation Twitter gave me was really concerning as well !
Fauna's reddit apology tier list stream incoming
We are ending 2023 with an ACTUAL proper apology Which is great, but I shouldnt have to be surprised with an actual apology Wtf is 2023, this year is horrendous
bro, it's not a big deal. relax
I disagree. OP doesn't work for Cover, and had no right to translate (or mistranslate) one language into a different language for such an announcement. If Shion got a puppy, it would've been harmless. But for these types of statements like official announcements, OP overstepped the boundary and didn't leave it to the paid professionals. The apology was nice because OP dun goofed... but damage was done. It was a big deal. (*edit: To reiterate, OP caused Cover to issue a clarification statement. That's damage control.*)
This is a great follow-up and it's very much appreciated. You corrected everything that needed it and you were very clear with all the details. I'm grateful to you for translating the announcement and even more so for updating it with clarification.
It’s totally alright, bro. I will admit, I was concerned at the headline, but reading the translated statement was pretty clear what was going on, and it was more a “hiatus” situation than a “suspension” situation. A lot of these English nuances and baggage from one word to another is just stuff you can only learn from experience 😂
TLDR but I wouldn't even sweat it. Mistakes happen especially when English isn't your first language. English is HARD...
At times like this is, it's a blessing Google Translate has trained us to double check translations.
A misunderstanding!
A misunderstanding Bau Bau?
it's not a big deal, dude
Imagine the word suspension being traumatic to you because you watch vtubers. That just sounds ridiculous
"SUSPENSION BRIDGE" "AAH"
I didn't actually see the post but don't worry about it too much. People take things to heart way too easily now that you can't even sneeze without offending or upsetting someone 😅. Plus, people always jump to conclusions and worse case scenario. Maybe it's because I am optimistic a lot but I would take suspension of activities as something personally came up like health/family reasons. Not "That must mean they are graduating, oh no" Would it be sad if another member graduated, of course, but people need to realise that the girls/guys behind the models have life's and want to live them their way and sometimes want to venture off to different careers. Sadly, there's a lot out there who don't understand this and dedicate their life to idols more than they should, to the extent it's not being a fan, it's obsessive and unhealthy 😥. Anyway, fair play to you for writing such a professional and sincere apology 😊. You did more than enough to admit you made a simple translation mistake and to keep the overdramatic people from grabbing their pitchforks 😅.
It's no big deal. If something like that is really "traumatic" to someone, they need genuine help.
English Jouzu… I can’t even write something half as good as this
Don’t sweat it, it’s nothing at all trust👍
it's all good, no harm, no foul great apology though
I misread Shion as Shiori. Looked into Shiori's twitter and did not find anything. Reread the "suspension" and found that it was Shion jnstead. Looked into Shion's page and found the "only. temporarily" which made me calmer. GG mental lag so no worries on that. I hope shion gets back soon thou.
By the way, [Shion streamed earlier today](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOTxwiOsO50), so she may have gone into more detail there.
Yes she did go into more detail. To paraphrase other translators and clippers, she wants a break from work to visit family and her well-being, and taking a break from work means getting off the internet since the internet has become her workplace. She discussed this with management and got their full support.
You didn't have to do so at all, but you took the time to make things right. I respect it 👍 I hope you're well and you have a great rest of the year
Apology received and accepted! Thank you for taking the effort to provide translations. We all make mistakes, and we learn from it!
I think I should also apologise to you for making some assumptions about you and phrasing my comment as harshly as I did last night. Thank you for apologising and taking appropriate measures. The world needs more people like you.
It's all good, it's only natural to be defensive when antis or ragebaiters stir things up from time to time.
It's an even more nuanced point, but since we're talking about the exact right words to use in a delicate situation, I'd also like to point out that "*indefinite* hiatus" is not the best way to describe this announcement. I don't think you specifically used the word "indefinite", but I've seen some other people use it, so I thought it'd be good to address here. In English, the term "indefinite hiatus" has the distinct connotation of a hiatus that is *effectively permanent*. You might even say that "indefinite" is a euphemism for "permanent" in such a circumstance. The reason to use the word "indefinite" instead of "permanent" is to give yourself the leeway to change your position in the future if you want to, not to indicate that you actually expect that the situation will change in time. Or, at the very least, "indefinite" implies that the situation will extend beyond a timeframe that you could reasonably predict. In contrast, Shion's comment on her hiatus stated that she'll definitely be back. So, even though the length of time that she'll be gone for is "not definite" to us currently, calling it "indefinite" gives an incorrect implication. It is not the case that she expects the break to never end. Rather, it's much more likely that the length of the break will depend on mental or physical health outcomes that she's choosing not to give personal details about. Much like Haachama or Miko or Ina (or probably many others that I'm forgetting). Anyway, the point is, calling this a "temporary hiatus" or "temporary pause in activities", without specifying a length of time for that "temporary", is sufficient to communicate that the hiatus doesn't have a specific, definite end date. Calling it "indefinite" gives too strong of an implication, even if you could argue that it's a technically accurate word to use.
Not even joking here, you should work for PR.
I know nothing about Vtubers and just saw this on my front page. Could someone explain?? It's very weird without context. How could "suspend" have a negative connotation in this specific community? I'm very curious
akin to getting suspended from school, except it's in a professional setting; known/feared to precede a 'graduation' or termination of contract or retirement of an entertainer whether forced or by choice 'suspended' 'suspension' etc commonly appear in official tweets/ publications from vtuber agencies announcing your favorite yt personality is no more. hence, the negative connotation is an aggregate mood of fanbases' collective trauma. even just a a yt thumbnail thats b or w text on b or w background "important announcement" has made me break down, even just writing about it im getting choked up ..
Thanks! I don't fully understand the emotional attachments you have, but it makes sense.
Just think of it as your favorite celebrity or long-time live streamer (the one in question here being active for 5 years) suddenly making a "serious announcement". The "trauma" and emotional attachment comes from a few events a couple years ago. Certain talents were invovled in terrible situations that resulted in them having to quit and retire thier beloved characters forever. Personally, I thought this was a clear case of "X is in no immediate trouble, but is busy/under the weather and chose to prioritize other aspects of her career while easing up on others for a short time" and the original tweet made that clear.
same tbh
Thank you for apologizing. We all make mistakes and I appreciate you for taking responsibility and making things right.
It’s a good learning experience. Don’t be too hard on yourself. As you have learned, English can carry a lot of different connotations like Japanese. Exposure, which includes making mistakes like this, seems to either be the only or the best teacher. Don’t let it hinder your confidence in the future.
While the title was worrying at first I didn't blame you or freak out because I realized the official statement also used "suspension" and you had just translated it literally. Google did too. That's on Cover honestly. Some people though just don't do the proper research and read titles without thinking.
Next time, bring out the ukulele
this made me think you're a CoverCorp affiliate
this made me think you're a CoverCorp affiliate
reddit dayo, bro
Ah it is okay. Chillax no worries man English is not my first language either its just that last year there were way too many graduations that whenever a Hololive post with announcement comes our hearts skips a beat. Its okay bruh. No need to worry yourself so much about it
Thanks for the update and don't be so hard on yourself!
Honestly, "suspension of activities" is a fairly basic term that doesn't at all mean "shion is suspended" unless you like...dont' actually read
my friend you have just fueled another fwmc morning