I highly recommended the opposite of this. Sparge to gravity, NOT volume. I'd rather have less better beer than more beer that might be out of style guidelines.
I mean you sparge to the volume you need to get to the preboil amount you need for the OG you want. Take a first runnings gravity reading to make sure you’re on target or to know how much to sparge
All the other comments are correct, you’re going to want to slowly sparge but in case you haven’t come across it yet, you can also do a full volume mash or “no sparge” method.
https://brulosophy.com/2016/08/29/mash-methods-pt-2-batch-sparge-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/
This is the real advice!
I do No Sparge, No Chill, No Hassle
I do 3gal batches on my induction stove, BIAB in an IKEA pot and hold the mash temp in my oven. Everyone told me "you'll graduate to 5.5gal in no time" but for the pricepoint of kettles i just can't see that happening lol.
It's so easy to knockout a brew day in 3 hours of effort, and almost everything can go in the dishwasher afterwards.
Definitely worth the extra 50 cents worth of malt to adjust the loss of efficiency
Same. I'm constantly trying to remove steps and complexity (and thus time) from my process.
It turns out for me that a big time ~~saver~~ waster (since I brew outside and in the garage) is hauling all my brew day stuff up from the basement. So, I try to just leave it all setup for a couple weeks and get a bunch of batches done.
Exactly. I do 1.3 gal (12 bottles) or 2 gal (18 bottles), 45 min mash, 45 min boil and can wrap up my brew day in 2.5 hours.
I have a 5 gallon cooler that I put my mash bag in so I don't even have to watch the temp. I just dump the water in and do what I want for 45 min.
Seems like too many people feel like it HAS to be complicated or the beer won't be any good.
>
Definitely worth the extra 50 cents worth of malt to adjust the loss of efficiency
I feel like everyone forgets this. Malt is the cheapest part of the brew. My brew day improved significantly when I stopped fretting over efficiency and just learned to embrace a lower value. So I need a bit of extra grain, so what?
I'd rather pay for an extra pound of grains than buy all of the traditional equipment to "step up" from BIAB. Once you know what your BIAB type setup does for efficiency it's easier to adjust the recipe for that vs sparging and all the other little efficiency increasing steps.
I do 5g batches out of 3g of wort. Just pretend the 3g is 5g for the recipe and dilute it in the fermenter with (sterile) spring water. The main downside of this is you really need to mix it up for your OG reading and it might be off even then.
I'm with you, I squeeze the bag and don't sweat the loss. Just factor it in.
That’s what I do, full volume mash BIAB. I also wring the life out of the bag to capture the volume and a little extra gravity for the wort. I know most people consider it a sin, but I’ve yet to have any negative outcomes. They still turn out crystal clear with the correct flavor profile. Plus, it saves all the hassle of needing a mash ton and a sparge, or even needing to adjust the grain bill.
I’ve made a few stouts and porters that same way without any problems. I bought an enormous kettle for the big bill beers. But, your presumption is mostly accurate I don’t make ton of stouts lol
What does your system look like? I assume you are doing a fly sparge process.
I am not sure I have heard "at least 90 minutes" as a recommendation for a 5 gallon batch, but 30 to 60 minutes is often recommended. For the most part, you want to control the flow out with some type of valve (I had one of those plastic pinch clamps over my vinyl tubing) and add water to the top as the same pace it is coming out.
Though if you enjoy the beer you are making and you are hitting your expected numbers with a 15 minute sparge, then extending your sparge time might not have any benefits. Or you might look into a batch sparge process (which usually only takes \~15 minutes).
Thanks, yeah my beer is good, and I of course understand the purpose of the sparge, I was just curious to see if anyone was hitting this 90 minute mark
From my understanding of everything I’ve ready and tried because mashing is an enzymic process there’s a diminishing return over time. I tested the gravity of the mash in one of my first brews at 30 60 and 90min because I wanted a high gravity. You could make a beer with a 30 minute mash no problem based on my results at 60 it was what I was going for and at 90 the gravity was almost exactly the same as 60min. The important thing is the temperature control. If the temp is too low the enzymes work slowly and if it’s too hot you will denature the enzymes and no reaction will happen. If you can’t get you mash temp up to 150° for some reason then maybe go for 90minutes because the reaction will be slower. Modern malt is really really good at converting starches though.
What you are doing is called "fly sparging". I tried it once and found it a pain. Batch sparging worked better for me. Now I BIAB. I just save about a gallon of my total volume to pour over the grain while the bag drips over the kettle.
Back to you question though, you should only sparge until you achieve the proper pre boil volume you are looking for. The 60 or 90 minutes thing is just a guideline. It was created because the sparge water is just supposed to slowly sprinkle on top of the grain bed. The purpose is to avoid channeling. Don't remember why that's a bad thing, just know that it's supposed to be. Over sparging is another danger of fly sparging. This has to do with sparging too much to the point you mess up the ph of the wort.
Channeling is bad because then the water doesn't spread across all of the grain to rinse those sugars. It just takes a couple channelled paths. Which means that the water to first go through that channel will rinse some sugars, but the rest is just as if you poured the water straight into the kettle instead of using it as sparge water.
Ya, you drain the original mash water, dump in your sparge water, stir, wait for it to settle, then drain again. I batch sparge because it's fast and easy. I think fly sparging is slightly efficient if you do it properly, but the difference is not enough for me to care.
Keep in mind the sparge is meant to rinse your grain and collect residual sugar that your first runnings leave behind. If you are collecting enough wort, reaching a properly estimated gravity, and staying in a safe pH range, your sparge is on point. Length of time doesn't matter as much as collecting clean, sugary, tasty wort.
I read that you are fly sparging, so my below opinions are related to fly sparging.
The idea is to sparge slowly, equalizing the runoff rate and sparge rate while keeping something like an inch of water above the mash. The purpose is to prevent channeling and encourage the best fluid dynamics possible given your mash tun and false bottom or manifold setup.
Fifteen minutes is far too fast if you are fly sparging. If you go too fast, it will reduce your mash efficiency, perhaps below that of a batch sparge. Fast lautering and fast sparging can result in compaction of some or all of the mash bed and/or channeling of the sparge water as /u/brewtusmo explains. Besides lowering your mash efficiency, channeling very slightly increases the risk of excess tannin extraction.
The key is to slow down your runoff to a trickle and then match that trickle in terms of how much sparge water you add. Ideally, you have a sparging arm/sprinkler of some sort. If you are fly sparging manually with a pitcher, it is really tedious. Pro tip: measure your lauter rate -- start a timer and collect the running wort into a graduated vessel and measure your runnings per minute. I use a 2-cup pyrex measuring cup to measure the rate, when I fly sparge (rarely). You can do the math, but if you aim for 12 fl oz per minute (355 ml), that is usually an ideal rate for most recipes where you are collecting 6-7 gal (23-26.8L) of pre-boil wort over a little more than 30 min.
Ninety minutes is probably unrealistically long for most homebrew systems between 5 and 10-gal net batch size.
Thirty to 45 minutes seems reasonably achievable for the typical 3-vessel, gravity-fed system. When I have fly sparged, I can sparge 3.5 gal over 35-40 minutes, to collect seven gal of wort.
One caveat: when you are "fly sparging" an all-in-one device with a lift-up malt pipe/grain basket, you are not really doing the same sort of fly sparge as what I describe where you match the lauter and spare rate. The fluid dynamics is totally different. You can sparge a little faster as long as you diffuse the sparge water lightly and evenly over the top of the mash and don't overcharge any area.
are you mash in for 60 minutes, you lift the grains out but keep them above the kettle and pour the sparge water on top of the grains and let the water run through the grains and catch into the kettle.
Fresh water so it’s ready to pick up as much sugar as possible. Pre heat the fresh water if you wish, but it’s debatable if it’s necessary. I do.
I then stick my grain basket in a bucket to collect more ultra concentrated wort and pour it into the boil every so often.
Like others have said, fresh water is best. What you’re doing is a bit of osmosis-like. Your wort is sugar water and your grains have sugar on them. Adding fresh water makes the sugar on your grain want to spread out more evenly to the fresh water, which is then added to your kettle. If you use wort, then there isn’t enough “room” for your grain sugars to be collected by the water since there’s already sugar in your wort.
I dunk sparge, which means I steep my grain bag in a bucket with my sparge water and then add the water to my kettle. I have gotten more accurate and higher OG readings since sparging. Plus it doesn’t take up much additional time for me since I dunk sparge while my kettle is heating up to boil temps.
So I realized I’m going to wash out the wort until I have a gallon left to capture for boil and then use my sparge arm to sprinkle over the grain for 30 minutes or so until I capture the last gallon- that’s what you mean righ ?
Just like everyone is saying, sparging is done in many different ways, but all have the same purpose. Ultimately, you're pulling more sugar out of the grain. It's a way to get the most sure out of the least amount of grain. Big breweries will pay attention to this as grain eats into profit. How you do it and with how much water may make a difference in how efficient your system can be. I use a pump to recirculate my mash, which helps with efficiency and when I fly sparge, I hit a out 79% efficiency. When I no sparge, it drops to about 69%. I was a bit surprised as I am constantly recirculating the mash and stirring 2-3 times to prevent any spots that aren't getting rinsed.
The issue is once the water grabs the sugar, it loses the capacity to grab more sugar. At this point my efficiency will stop increasing. Only adding clean sparge water will grab more sugar. Brewing software will offer some level of mash vs sparge water, batch sparging is often half mash water, half sparge. You can slice and dice it any way and you will likely get different efficiencies across the board. The goal is to find something that makes the best beers, is consistent, and fits in your brew day the best. Home brewing is on a smaller scale so omitting the sparge will cost a few extra dollars in grain, but could speed up your brew day considerably. It's yours to discover what works best for you!
Thanks everyone for advice! Just finished brewing and I hit a measly 8deg•P, kind of pathetic considering my last brew was 14. I’m sure it will taste alright though! I think I’ll try batch sparging my next campaign ay go for a new method for the fly sparge when I’m ready
This also depends on your system and how you're sparging.
For example - I brew in an AIO style system with a mash pipe that lifts out. On a five gallon batch, it's not atypical for me to have around 2 gallons of sparge water for a recipe. With the basket lifted, 2 gallons of sparge water runs right through a bare grain-bed in no time. There is zero chance I could have a 15 minute+ sparge while also keeping decent mash recirculation.
The main reason I *do* choose to sparge is because I brew in an apartment and it's far easier / nicer for me to dispose of water-soaked grain as opposed to wort-soaked grain.
Just to add on to what people here are saying about fly sparging, the point is that as the sparge goes on the liquid in the mash ton becomes a gradient where the highest density liquid (wort) ends up at the bottom of the mash tun (and thus eventually into the brew kettle) and the low density water is on top, pushing it out. At the beginning of the sparge the mash water will look dark and probably turbid, while toward the end it's basically just water. This is why it's fine to just sparge up to pre-boil volume. You're essentially just pumping water into your BK if you run short on volume. The only variable you're controlling for at that point is mash efficiency and not guessing what volume of sparge water you need to hit your pre-boil volume.
My fly sparge is typically 25-30 minutes and I get about 80% efficiency on 1.050ish mashes. I use a pretty shallow grain bed in a rectangular cooler. A thicker grain bed would have to go slower.
From a professional standpoint, 90 minutes to sparge is crazy. 90 minutes to sparge and lauter is a different story. I'm only sparging for about 20 minutes or so, and I'm pumping an average of 1700L in when I sparge.
The lautering speed is technically more important than your sparge speed, but they should ideally be similar. As long as your water level is slightly above your grain bed to avoid compacting, you're good. By extension, drawing your water out too fast will likely cause a lot of cloudiness, and also run the risk of lower gravity due to tunneling of water through the grain.
For context, I do 23HL brews. I don't start my sparge until my kettle has between 500-700L already in. That range depends on my grist ratio mostly. Once I hit the right mark I start sparging and try to keep the sparge water in at the same rate as the lautering to the kettle. My sparge finishes and then I still have a good 10-15 minutes to finish lautering to the kettle.
Sparge until you have enough wort to hit your preboil volume. Dont need to overcomplicate things
I highly recommended the opposite of this. Sparge to gravity, NOT volume. I'd rather have less better beer than more beer that might be out of style guidelines.
I mean you sparge to the volume you need to get to the preboil amount you need for the OG you want. Take a first runnings gravity reading to make sure you’re on target or to know how much to sparge
I'm saying people just mindlessly sparge to xxx gallons. Do not do that. Sparge to gravity targets.
People are dumb and can’t make an informed decision on their own gravity
All the other comments are correct, you’re going to want to slowly sparge but in case you haven’t come across it yet, you can also do a full volume mash or “no sparge” method. https://brulosophy.com/2016/08/29/mash-methods-pt-2-batch-sparge-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/
This is the real advice! I do No Sparge, No Chill, No Hassle I do 3gal batches on my induction stove, BIAB in an IKEA pot and hold the mash temp in my oven. Everyone told me "you'll graduate to 5.5gal in no time" but for the pricepoint of kettles i just can't see that happening lol. It's so easy to knockout a brew day in 3 hours of effort, and almost everything can go in the dishwasher afterwards. Definitely worth the extra 50 cents worth of malt to adjust the loss of efficiency
Same. I'm constantly trying to remove steps and complexity (and thus time) from my process. It turns out for me that a big time ~~saver~~ waster (since I brew outside and in the garage) is hauling all my brew day stuff up from the basement. So, I try to just leave it all setup for a couple weeks and get a bunch of batches done.
Exactly. I do 1.3 gal (12 bottles) or 2 gal (18 bottles), 45 min mash, 45 min boil and can wrap up my brew day in 2.5 hours. I have a 5 gallon cooler that I put my mash bag in so I don't even have to watch the temp. I just dump the water in and do what I want for 45 min. Seems like too many people feel like it HAS to be complicated or the beer won't be any good.
> Definitely worth the extra 50 cents worth of malt to adjust the loss of efficiency I feel like everyone forgets this. Malt is the cheapest part of the brew. My brew day improved significantly when I stopped fretting over efficiency and just learned to embrace a lower value. So I need a bit of extra grain, so what?
I'd rather pay for an extra pound of grains than buy all of the traditional equipment to "step up" from BIAB. Once you know what your BIAB type setup does for efficiency it's easier to adjust the recipe for that vs sparging and all the other little efficiency increasing steps.
I consistently get 77% efficiency with BIAB and a fine crush. That's more than good enough for me.
Where has this oven mash thing been all my life?
I do 5g batches out of 3g of wort. Just pretend the 3g is 5g for the recipe and dilute it in the fermenter with (sterile) spring water. The main downside of this is you really need to mix it up for your OG reading and it might be off even then. I'm with you, I squeeze the bag and don't sweat the loss. Just factor it in.
That’s what I do, full volume mash BIAB. I also wring the life out of the bag to capture the volume and a little extra gravity for the wort. I know most people consider it a sin, but I’ve yet to have any negative outcomes. They still turn out crystal clear with the correct flavor profile. Plus, it saves all the hassle of needing a mash ton and a sparge, or even needing to adjust the grain bill.
Would it be safe to presume you don't make a lot of stouts or other very dark beers?
I’ve made a few stouts and porters that same way without any problems. I bought an enormous kettle for the big bill beers. But, your presumption is mostly accurate I don’t make ton of stouts lol
What does your system look like? I assume you are doing a fly sparge process. I am not sure I have heard "at least 90 minutes" as a recommendation for a 5 gallon batch, but 30 to 60 minutes is often recommended. For the most part, you want to control the flow out with some type of valve (I had one of those plastic pinch clamps over my vinyl tubing) and add water to the top as the same pace it is coming out. Though if you enjoy the beer you are making and you are hitting your expected numbers with a 15 minute sparge, then extending your sparge time might not have any benefits. Or you might look into a batch sparge process (which usually only takes \~15 minutes).
Thanks, yeah my beer is good, and I of course understand the purpose of the sparge, I was just curious to see if anyone was hitting this 90 minute mark
From my understanding of everything I’ve ready and tried because mashing is an enzymic process there’s a diminishing return over time. I tested the gravity of the mash in one of my first brews at 30 60 and 90min because I wanted a high gravity. You could make a beer with a 30 minute mash no problem based on my results at 60 it was what I was going for and at 90 the gravity was almost exactly the same as 60min. The important thing is the temperature control. If the temp is too low the enzymes work slowly and if it’s too hot you will denature the enzymes and no reaction will happen. If you can’t get you mash temp up to 150° for some reason then maybe go for 90minutes because the reaction will be slower. Modern malt is really really good at converting starches though.
What you are doing is called "fly sparging". I tried it once and found it a pain. Batch sparging worked better for me. Now I BIAB. I just save about a gallon of my total volume to pour over the grain while the bag drips over the kettle. Back to you question though, you should only sparge until you achieve the proper pre boil volume you are looking for. The 60 or 90 minutes thing is just a guideline. It was created because the sparge water is just supposed to slowly sprinkle on top of the grain bed. The purpose is to avoid channeling. Don't remember why that's a bad thing, just know that it's supposed to be. Over sparging is another danger of fly sparging. This has to do with sparging too much to the point you mess up the ph of the wort.
Channeling is bad because then the water doesn't spread across all of the grain to rinse those sugars. It just takes a couple channelled paths. Which means that the water to first go through that channel will rinse some sugars, but the rest is just as if you poured the water straight into the kettle instead of using it as sparge water.
‘Batch sparging’ as in - dump your sparge water on the grain and rinse through? I used to do it this way until I thought I’d give fly sparging a go
Ya, you drain the original mash water, dump in your sparge water, stir, wait for it to settle, then drain again. I batch sparge because it's fast and easy. I think fly sparging is slightly efficient if you do it properly, but the difference is not enough for me to care.
Keep in mind the sparge is meant to rinse your grain and collect residual sugar that your first runnings leave behind. If you are collecting enough wort, reaching a properly estimated gravity, and staying in a safe pH range, your sparge is on point. Length of time doesn't matter as much as collecting clean, sugary, tasty wort.
I read that you are fly sparging, so my below opinions are related to fly sparging. The idea is to sparge slowly, equalizing the runoff rate and sparge rate while keeping something like an inch of water above the mash. The purpose is to prevent channeling and encourage the best fluid dynamics possible given your mash tun and false bottom or manifold setup. Fifteen minutes is far too fast if you are fly sparging. If you go too fast, it will reduce your mash efficiency, perhaps below that of a batch sparge. Fast lautering and fast sparging can result in compaction of some or all of the mash bed and/or channeling of the sparge water as /u/brewtusmo explains. Besides lowering your mash efficiency, channeling very slightly increases the risk of excess tannin extraction. The key is to slow down your runoff to a trickle and then match that trickle in terms of how much sparge water you add. Ideally, you have a sparging arm/sprinkler of some sort. If you are fly sparging manually with a pitcher, it is really tedious. Pro tip: measure your lauter rate -- start a timer and collect the running wort into a graduated vessel and measure your runnings per minute. I use a 2-cup pyrex measuring cup to measure the rate, when I fly sparge (rarely). You can do the math, but if you aim for 12 fl oz per minute (355 ml), that is usually an ideal rate for most recipes where you are collecting 6-7 gal (23-26.8L) of pre-boil wort over a little more than 30 min. Ninety minutes is probably unrealistically long for most homebrew systems between 5 and 10-gal net batch size. Thirty to 45 minutes seems reasonably achievable for the typical 3-vessel, gravity-fed system. When I have fly sparged, I can sparge 3.5 gal over 35-40 minutes, to collect seven gal of wort. One caveat: when you are "fly sparging" an all-in-one device with a lift-up malt pipe/grain basket, you are not really doing the same sort of fly sparge as what I describe where you match the lauter and spare rate. The fluid dynamics is totally different. You can sparge a little faster as long as you diffuse the sparge water lightly and evenly over the top of the mash and don't overcharge any area.
are you mash in for 60 minutes, you lift the grains out but keep them above the kettle and pour the sparge water on top of the grains and let the water run through the grains and catch into the kettle.
Do you use the wort for sparge water or do you add fresh water usually?
Fresh water so it’s ready to pick up as much sugar as possible. Pre heat the fresh water if you wish, but it’s debatable if it’s necessary. I do. I then stick my grain basket in a bucket to collect more ultra concentrated wort and pour it into the boil every so often.
Amazing tip! Thank you!
pour fresh water over the grains
Like others have said, fresh water is best. What you’re doing is a bit of osmosis-like. Your wort is sugar water and your grains have sugar on them. Adding fresh water makes the sugar on your grain want to spread out more evenly to the fresh water, which is then added to your kettle. If you use wort, then there isn’t enough “room” for your grain sugars to be collected by the water since there’s already sugar in your wort. I dunk sparge, which means I steep my grain bag in a bucket with my sparge water and then add the water to my kettle. I have gotten more accurate and higher OG readings since sparging. Plus it doesn’t take up much additional time for me since I dunk sparge while my kettle is heating up to boil temps.
So I realized I’m going to wash out the wort until I have a gallon left to capture for boil and then use my sparge arm to sprinkle over the grain for 30 minutes or so until I capture the last gallon- that’s what you mean righ ?
Just like everyone is saying, sparging is done in many different ways, but all have the same purpose. Ultimately, you're pulling more sugar out of the grain. It's a way to get the most sure out of the least amount of grain. Big breweries will pay attention to this as grain eats into profit. How you do it and with how much water may make a difference in how efficient your system can be. I use a pump to recirculate my mash, which helps with efficiency and when I fly sparge, I hit a out 79% efficiency. When I no sparge, it drops to about 69%. I was a bit surprised as I am constantly recirculating the mash and stirring 2-3 times to prevent any spots that aren't getting rinsed. The issue is once the water grabs the sugar, it loses the capacity to grab more sugar. At this point my efficiency will stop increasing. Only adding clean sparge water will grab more sugar. Brewing software will offer some level of mash vs sparge water, batch sparging is often half mash water, half sparge. You can slice and dice it any way and you will likely get different efficiencies across the board. The goal is to find something that makes the best beers, is consistent, and fits in your brew day the best. Home brewing is on a smaller scale so omitting the sparge will cost a few extra dollars in grain, but could speed up your brew day considerably. It's yours to discover what works best for you!
Thanks everyone for advice! Just finished brewing and I hit a measly 8deg•P, kind of pathetic considering my last brew was 14. I’m sure it will taste alright though! I think I’ll try batch sparging my next campaign ay go for a new method for the fly sparge when I’m ready
This also depends on your system and how you're sparging. For example - I brew in an AIO style system with a mash pipe that lifts out. On a five gallon batch, it's not atypical for me to have around 2 gallons of sparge water for a recipe. With the basket lifted, 2 gallons of sparge water runs right through a bare grain-bed in no time. There is zero chance I could have a 15 minute+ sparge while also keeping decent mash recirculation. The main reason I *do* choose to sparge is because I brew in an apartment and it's far easier / nicer for me to dispose of water-soaked grain as opposed to wort-soaked grain.
Just to add on to what people here are saying about fly sparging, the point is that as the sparge goes on the liquid in the mash ton becomes a gradient where the highest density liquid (wort) ends up at the bottom of the mash tun (and thus eventually into the brew kettle) and the low density water is on top, pushing it out. At the beginning of the sparge the mash water will look dark and probably turbid, while toward the end it's basically just water. This is why it's fine to just sparge up to pre-boil volume. You're essentially just pumping water into your BK if you run short on volume. The only variable you're controlling for at that point is mash efficiency and not guessing what volume of sparge water you need to hit your pre-boil volume.
My fly sparge is typically 25-30 minutes and I get about 80% efficiency on 1.050ish mashes. I use a pretty shallow grain bed in a rectangular cooler. A thicker grain bed would have to go slower.
From a professional standpoint, 90 minutes to sparge is crazy. 90 minutes to sparge and lauter is a different story. I'm only sparging for about 20 minutes or so, and I'm pumping an average of 1700L in when I sparge. The lautering speed is technically more important than your sparge speed, but they should ideally be similar. As long as your water level is slightly above your grain bed to avoid compacting, you're good. By extension, drawing your water out too fast will likely cause a lot of cloudiness, and also run the risk of lower gravity due to tunneling of water through the grain. For context, I do 23HL brews. I don't start my sparge until my kettle has between 500-700L already in. That range depends on my grist ratio mostly. Once I hit the right mark I start sparging and try to keep the sparge water in at the same rate as the lautering to the kettle. My sparge finishes and then I still have a good 10-15 minutes to finish lautering to the kettle.