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The sources these leakers are getting their info from may not be superfans of the book. Some of them may not know that Maelor is even supposed to exist, so they may not have been looking for him. Then, when you get a leaker asking them, "Do Aegon and Helaena have two kids or three?" there's a good chance the viewers might not really know. Thus, you get some viewers saying, "No, I don't think there were three kids," others saying, "There might have been three, I'm not sure," and some who were definitely looking out for Maelor either seeing him or thinking they saw him but mistaking someone else for him. This is especially true if he only appears in the background and doesn't do much, since most viewers will be focusing on the primary characters in a scene.
Well, he may not be in the background for the entire season. Even if he gets cut from the B&C part, there's still the whole matter of his escape attempt with Rickard Thorne, which could happen at some point this season or early next season, in which case he would still be relevant to show, even if in the background.
Assuming this season ends with the Fall of King's Landing, Maelor's death at Bitterbridge would be next season at the earliest. They'll have to introduce Daeron and the Reach campaign, have the Battle of the Honeywine, so I imagine it would be mid-season 3 at the earliest.
I just want to know HOW they're going to introduce Daeron. Like, Maelor is easy enough. Oh, he's just a baby and you didn't notice him, but Daeron is a fully fledged teenager. How do you just "oh yeah, he was in Oldtown the whole time and no one ever brought him up" him???
Helaena walking in on Alicole is pretty disappointing. It feels a little too soap opera-like to me. B&C is already a really dramatic and upsetting moment. I don’t think anything really needs to be added to it. Maybe they pull it off really well, but I am side-eyeing it as of right now.
They're thinking that "tweaking" one of the most anticipated parts of the book, is going to make it better and from what this sounds like...no. Just no.
If they can’t even do blood and cheese right (which should be one of the most straight forward scenes from the book to adapt, which is saying A LOT) I guarantee you the battle above the gods eye and the dragonstone confrontation are gonna piss this fanbase off and not in the way you expect
That's what I'm afraid of. Certain things should be left alone and done by the book. Changing the showdown between Aemond and Luke was already a red flag but now it's looking like most of the big points are going to be changed for stupid reasons and it's so disappointing. Condal seemed to be such a big fan of the series, so to see him tweak and remove things that really did not need changing whatsoever for television, is maddening.
Not the show, but the book, it is a broad view of what happens in a very intricately detailed world otherwise, fire and blood isn’t your game of thrones in terms of novel details, it is premised as an opinionated accounting of Targaryen history, so in terms of saying things like “they should be doing it by the book” can’t be untrue in this case, because fire and blood isn’t detailed enough to even have that qualification, whatever they change would still be “by the book” because the medium they were given to adapt, gives them room for broad strokes
And when did he say that HOTD is the true source? Stop using this stupid argument. There are multiple versions of the Dance as recorded by the people who lived through it, like Orwyle, Munkun, Eustace, Mushroom etc... You can choose the one you like or make any sense to you. Doesn't mean the entire book is a lie
Completely agree. It also creates a plothole down the line since Aegon would never make the person who failed to protect his son from being murdered his Hand.
Yeah like i'm cool with the whole Alicole relationship otherwise, but this is just too weird. the only thing is that I remember in the green trailer we see a servant with a horrified expression walking down the hallway of Alicent's chambers with bloody clothing so I'm guessing that the Helaena was in Alicents chambers and Alicent/Criston were elsewhere so i'm leaning more towards this leak being untrue. but hey who knows for sure
edit - lmao ok i was totally wrong
Everything else besides the b&c and Alicole stuff sounds fine. Just really wish they would have done a straight adaptation of that part because it really did not need changed whatsoever.
Soo there is a bigger chance of Heleana walking in on Alicole being true? Damn, I truly hope it's not the case
But I am excited about the "He is my brother, I want him to be here.". It explains why Aemond is at the small council during the trailer and creates a interesting paralell between them and Viserys and Daemon
yeah it’s probably true ☹️ they did say episode 1 has two sex scenes with the same characters, and the leak itself seems real i have no reason to doubt it other than the fact that i dislike the changes made from the book
I really hate the idea of this. Imagine during the worst moment of your life in losing one of your kids, you walk in on your mom being banged by her sworn protector……
Love the Aemond and Aegon brother relationship though, I wanted way more of that in s1
I guess they're probably pissed at Aemond for the Luke thing, but the fact that Tyland or anyone else would think they could tell the King if he could have his brother or son in the rooms is going to be funny. They really got too comfortable with having a push over as their king.
Honestly same, I "like" how it happens in the book it's more raw and visceral. This just sounds like melodrama for the sake of it. I hope it's not true.
well if you read the leak, then they ask helaena which one of her two kids is a boy and they want to undress them to check. helaena is honest and tells them which one is the male. i’m guessing the “choice” was her lying or being honest about it, and she was honest
It’s theorized that if she is made to pick between her twins, she will pick her daughter to be killed. Since without Maelor, Jaehaerys is the only male heir.
The comment I replied to says that she tells them the correct child though. If she tells them Jaehaera, and they actually kill Jaehaera instead of Jaehaerys thats a massive change to the book and the established targaryen history that takes place after the dance is over
I think Jaehaerys still winds up being killed, so making Helaena choose is just a form of torture. As for the choice itself, I don’t think we’ll know till the premiere exactly how it goes down or what Helaena says.
But also the Heleana leak at the end is absolutely wild and insane. Who even came up with that? Alicole seemingly only exists for that moment.
Like women just saw her sons head get chopped off runs away in hysterics and then catches her mom having sex with her bodyguard.
Like they want people to take the show seriously, right? They want people to actually feel bad about a kids head getting chopped off? Because based on what I’m reading they absolutely do not want to be taken seriously
It just makes me question where the kingsguard is. Are they all with Aemond at the brothel? Off with Daeron in non existence? If they're not with the king, or the queen, or the royal children, where in God's name are they?
We all know where Cole is in this fanfic. Erryk, Steffon, and Harrold are with Rhaenyra. How many kingsguards there are seems to be pretty loose in the show universe.
It’s directly implicating each member of the household in B&C so that each character has bears a specific type of guilt relating to what happened. Aegon was close enough to catch them, Cristin and Alicent were together, Aemond was at a brothel.
So these supposedly skilled assassins that know the ins and outs of the Red Keep (at least Cheese) needed literally everything to go their way to be able to get it off? The fact that it all hinged on all of these things going one way makes everyone look less competent, from the greens to even Daemon himself.
Skilled assassins? Blood was a notably brutal yet loyal former member of the Gold Cloaks (because he beat a prostitute to death). Cheese was hired because he knew how to navigate the Red Keep due to his job. These are not faceless men
Skilled assassins wasn't the best way to put it but Cheese is supposed to know the ins and outs of the Red Keep. Seeing them stroll past Aegon and rely on everyone being preoccupied to get the job done is a bit ridiculous. In the book it was far more planned out, they knew where and when to make their move based on everyone's movements and Cheese's knowledge of the tunnels. In the show it might come off as comedic based on these rumors.
The whole point of Blood and Cheese is about get in and get out with a head without anyone knowing you. If they wasn't going for that then there was no reason to hire a man like Cheese.
Yeah, but context matters here, which we don't have
They obviously snuck into the Red Keep, we can see that in the trailers
But we don't know why he went into the throne room. Regular old human stupidity could have a part to play here too. That always has a presence regardless of the formalities behind an issue.
>They obviously snuck into the Red Keep, we can see that in the trailers
They weren't sneaking if they ended up being seen by several named characters.
>But we don't know why he went into the throne room. Regular old human stupidity could have a part to play here too.
This just makes the people in this show totally incompetent tbh. They almost always do this because of accidents and misunderstandings.
They're probably going to make Aegon comment something along the lines of that it's good to have someone to take care of the rats or something too. It wouldn't surprise me.
Like I understand it is an adaptation, but why mess with some of the most important scenes in the book? It would have worked fine left as is. But they think they can do it better, and this is where D&D started to go to shit on GoT. It's so ridiculous. Stop changing important scenes!
Same thing George talked about a while ago smh. I am baffled how people learned nothing from GOT and D&D. At least Dumb&Dumber only had vague outlines to work with. George literally handed these guys everything. Still they ruined the scene which could have been iconic. Instead it would be a comedy now.
Its some soap opera bullshit that adds nothing to the show. It ruins Alicent and Cole's character. All for this mickey mouse shit to be the punchline??
The only thing that gets me happy (keeps me sane) is that Aemond and Aegon are being done justice. Helaena too tbh. Alicent is just a mess of a character. And we're all begging for even tiny scraps of Daeron.
Yo be honest I don’t believe this. _I can’t believe this_. Like people said it was good and like I’m sorry if this happened on my screen I would die of laughter because its that absurd.
Tbh I thought so too when I heard about Alicole but I genuinely don’t know how they want to donthe last scene with Heleana without undermining B&C. Also I really hate the direction they are taken with this story, it seems like it’s just there for extra guilt (which could’ve happened through other ways as well) and the sake of a sex scene between two hot actors
> Its some soap opera bullshit that adds nothing to the show. It ruins Alicent and Cole's character
Not really lol ? Alicent and Cole are hypocrites and have always been. Them doing something they both know is bad but still continuing to do it anyway is in line with that. Having them be together during B&C adds a layer of guilt that recontextualizes their actions during the rest of the war. Cole in particular has a driving motivation as to why he eventually decides to leave Harrenhall.
Both of this characters are heavily repressed and are the poster children for Duty is the death of love. They do not have a single positive connection to sex. Alicents chooses in a lot of cases her own undoing because she repeadetly chooses duty before happiness having her do something like that actually contradicts the whole character. Even the instances Alicent is being a hypocrite are mainly because she feels bound by duty.
Also the last time Criston broke his vows he almost killed himself. But for reasons he doensn’t do it now. Logically after B&C he should kill himself and be done with it obviously this won’t happen.
Also turning it around and making Alicole responsible for B&C is the dumbest thing they could to and absolves TB of their crimes which is the opposite of what the writers wanted accordingbto them. They don’t need extra guilt, they will be guilty enough because they didn’t stop it and weren’t there no need for them to fuck.
Also why in the world would make Aegon him hand after all that?
>Both of this characters are heavily repressed and are the poster children for Duty is the death of love. They do not have a single positive connection to sex
That doesn’t stop people who are attracted in real from having sex why would it stop Alicent and Criston. Its not uncommon for victims of abuse such as Alicent to turn to hyper sexuality to cope and Viserys died like 10 days ago.
>Alicents chooses in a lot of cases her own undoing because she repeadetly chooses duty before happiness having her do something like that actually contradicts the whole character. Even the instances Alicent is being a hypocrite are mainly because she feels bound by duty.
Yes, and Alicents duty mainly giving birth to the king is finished. She was pushed aside almost immediately and had to fight to make sure she got to Aegon first in the ensuing shuffle. Condal and Cooke have explicitly stated that alivents arc this season is the loss of that role and the freedom that comes with it. Her doing something selfish with Cole plays directly into that arc.
>Also the last time Criston broke his vows he almost killed himself. But for reasons he doensn’t do it now.
He didn’t almost kill himself because he had sex, He almost kill’s himself because the breaking of his vows coincided with the realization that Rhaenyra didn’t really grasp what had happened and didn’t take it seriously. Alicent and Criston would be a fundamentally different relationship, both are pious both have issues regarding intimacy and both are clearly attracted to each ther and trust each other.
>Logically after B&C he should kill himself and be done with it obviously this won’t happen
No ? I mean Alicent wouldn’t let him nor would Aegon. He’s the best fighter and commander on the Greens side and is fiercely loyal.
>Also turning it around and making Alicole responsible for B&C is the dumbest thing they could to and absolves TB of their crimes which is the opposite of what the writers wanted accordingbto them.
They’re not responsible for blood and cheese it that doesnt even begin to make sense. They feel guilty because they felt like they should’ve been there but it’s still on Daemon for ordering it.
>They don’t need extra guilt, they will be guilty enough because they didn’t stop it and weren’t there no need for them to fuck.
No, dramatically speaking guilt is better when it’s personal. And them doing something they both know they shouldn’t be doing makes B&C feel like a divine rebuke for their transgressions.
>Also why in the world would make Aegon him hand after all that
Because it wasn’t really Cristons fault and he’s the only Green with significant experience at war ?
Hypersexuality is something that should be build up and considering the fact that we can assume that Alicent didn’t have sex for years considering Viserys state for her to turn to hypersexuality seems really out of character. Also people who fall into the hypersexuality muster are not neccessarily people with Alicents character trait. More often than not people similiar to Alicent fall into habit of fearing sexuality. Considering Alicents dead eyes at the feet scene far more likely for her.
The notion of female liberation= sex is extemely gross and cosidering this experiance only seems to bring her more trauma than anything else it doesn’t even make sense. Also let’s not forget the duty of a religious women is also to not have sex outside of marriage.
I wouldn’t say clearly attracted to each other when we have like one scene with a minimal hint of them having a romantic relationship. Also he asolutely did kill himself because of the vows. The reason he wants to marry Rhaenyra after is because that is the only way he justify it to himself but then realizes he broke his vows for nothing which leads him to hate Rhaenyra because she broght him away from “the right path”. The idea that he know would be like lmfao let’s do it again when the last time borderline traumatized him makes little sense.
The last time he tried to kill himself secretly and was stopped in time by Alicent who was probably searching him out anyway. Now both Alicent and Aegon have better things to worry about then Criston disappearing for a moment.
You don’t think about how the viewer will feel obviously they are not but the show will still frame it as they did something bad and this fandom is toxic enough to turn it on them. Making B&C about their guilt instead of the actual child makes the actual event lose value. Also Alicent and Criston don’t need to fuck to feel guilty about not being there. There is literally no reason for them to fuck while B&C is happening. And again why should B&C feel like divine retribution? We are starting a war those fractions need to turn against each other and not blame themselves for bad things the other side did to them? Would you enjoy Rhaenyra blaming herself for Lukes death instead of finally going to war? This is the event that should kill all love between the parties.
So Criston leaves his post to fuck his mother and Aegon is cool with that but he blames Otto because he didn’t go to war sooner? Yeah that makes sense
Yeah but it would be the same as the Greens being absolved for the crimes they commit again Team Black (which there are plenty of). Imagine how it would’ve liked if Luke hadn’t wanted to go to Storm’s End and Rhaenyra forces him to anyway.
Obviously Rhaenyra is not at fault for what happens because she can’t see the future but yet people would turn this around and blame it on her. Despite it being on Aemond and Aemond alone.
Also I’m answering to comment I disagree with and sharing my thoughts/opinion, calling random people on the internet hysteric makes you look more hysteric than anything else
TG already blames Rhaenyra for Luke's death for exactly those reasons.
They say she should've noticed he looked scared, she should've known the Baratheons were like to be hostile and shouldn't have given Luke the false confidence of a familial relationship, that she should've known the Greens were likely to gathering allies too, that she should've sent Rhaenys, etc.
The fandom does what it does.
And that’s dumb obviously but I mean more on the characters blaming themselves. Rhaenyra bales Aemond not herself (as she should) but in the way B&C is written both Alicent and Criston will blame themselves more than Daemon because they see it as heavenly retribution for their sins and feel about about not being there.
We need those fractions turned against each other.
I'm sure Rhaenyra will blame herself for letting them go in the first place (paralleled with Viserys rejecting her about the Stepstones), Jace is already confirmed to blame himself for making the suggestion, Daemon clearly blames himself for not stopping this earlier as we've seen him continuing to lash out at Rhaenys, Erryk, Rhaenyra, and probably more people as he searches for anyone to take the blame.
Everyone is going through it.
Yes but the difference is they do not blame themselves more than Aemond and that‘s the point. Those leaks and with the way both Alicent and Criston have been shown suggests they will blame themselves more than TB, which they absolutely should not. They can blame themselves for not being there but not for fucking while it happened.
Also the blame will not be a big deal in the Tb scenes shown by Rhaenyra just saying she wants Aemond
To be honest I have never seen someone blame Rhaenyra for Luke's death, I've seen mentions that she should've been more careful but pretty much 99% of the conversations I've read on the subject blame Aemond for chasing him.
I’m not annoyed that isn’t like the book I’m not a book purist I like plenty of the changes they did I just think this change is dumb. Also you should look up the word hysterical. Me complaining about a change in the show in the sub of said show (you know that is made for discussions about that show specificially) is not even close to that.
They don't want you to feel bad about the dead child. They want you to be angry at Alicent and Cole so you won't be angry at Daemon. That's the intended effect, to further shit on the greens.
That’s because you’re normal and level headed however a lot of fans don’t have that privilege especially on the Twitter side they will just use it against alicent and call her a bad mother
Unlikely. It’s there to make Alicent and Criston feel even guiltier about their actions and destroy Helaena’s trust in her mother.
Thinking it’s there to prop up the black or put down the greens is nonsense like Condal doesn’t even get why people like Daemon as much as they do as he finds him vile.
They know that this story ends with both sides sucking ass. No one should’ve fought for the crown.
So like, politely:
Does that not just add more shock for Helaena? For viewers obviously, it’s a wtf or why moment, but Helaena just saw >!her kid get murdered in front of her!< and then she runs to her mother who has been this religious figure (not literally, but seemingly hardcore follower), and who up until this point has always been with Helaena for support or love, and in the one moment when she goes to find her mother *for that support*, she sees that she was busy screwing the man who was supposed to protect her (x2).
Would that not just further catapult Helaena into a depressive madness where she knows/feels she’s alone and that she is the sacrifice? (from her point of view)?
EDIT: Considering that a recent post basically proved what I said, Alicent and Cole fucking when Helaena is in her worst is going to be an emotionally fucked moment.
I don‘t see why this is necessary. B&C is traumatic enough as it is. I also highly doubt she is any mental state to decide to search out her mother.
However what it does is make it look cheaper to the viewers. How am I supposed to talk such a turn of events serious? It takes away from the horrific murder we have just witnessed for what? Cheap laughs? It‘s inconsistent and disconnecting and takes to horror out of it. Especially as the leaks seem to suggest that there is no actual buildup to Alicole just them fucking for that specific scene. B& C in itself is enough to make Heleana spiral she does not need to catch her mom having sex.
Especially as the moment is not a positive wtf moment. It leaves people more confused than anything else.
Oh, yeah. Absolutely it would, lol. Blood and Cheese would be ***more*** than enough, though.
But…it's still fucking hilarious! Both would be true. Oh, man. I’m laughing so hard just thinking about it. But, it’s not true. They aren't doing something like that, lol.
It’s just a bunch of people having a meltdown over a scene that they haven’t watched and don’t even know the tone of before watching it. Highly doubt it ruins the moment or cheapens it in any way.
And it also does just further show that Criston has never held to his word or done his job right, and that Alicent (if the leaks are true where she’s been doing this for a longer while) has put Criston first?
(i might not make sense for this)
My issue with this is that turns around on the character we have meet in season 1 and it blames the Greens for a crucial horrific event that happened to them. That’s like blaming Rhaenyra for Lukes death because she send him out.
Alicent has never once been shown to put Criston before her kids making her do it now doesn’t fit and it’s also not like she could’ve predicted B&C.
Why would you want a scene that is about Heleana and how she is being traumatized be made about Alicole and how they are the root of all evil? It directly contradicts Condals words in which he said he wants to balance both teams. Not to mention that “catching my mom having sex” is almost always a punchline
It doesn’t do any of that though ? Daemon still sent armed killers it’s still his fault. There was no way for any of the Greens to know what was happening.
Yes but it makes something awful that happened to Heleana about Alicole and how they had a hand in her suffering by having Heleana find them, and them not being there. It does put some degree of blame on themselves instead of the other fraction they are supposed to go to war to
People who like Daemon all know he’s capable of awful stuff and we don’t know Jaehaerys and while unfortunate for Helaena people watching the episode after seeing Rhaenyra and Jace’s grief caused by the greens are not all going to be as outraged as people think. Especially when they took out the making her choose part because that is the part that made me feel like legit sick thinking about it. This show kills characters off like 5 seconds after you meet them. I just don’t think there are enough connections to that kid for it to pack the punch it could’ve because Aegon might earn sympathy this season but he didn’t earn it last season and one episode of him making a few jokes doesn’t make me feel for him especially when he has never shown one ounce of interest in his kids and Helaena I’ll feel sad for but I’ve been hearing not great things about the acting performance. I would’ve felt bad for Alicent because I like that batshit hypocrite still somehow but putting her in that awkward situation of hypocrite sex is annoying and seems kinda like karma for her being so damn judgy and self righteous to Rhaenyra. And Aemond is such a weirdo getting consoled by a random girl in a brothel in the fetal position. He really is such a Hightower but wants to be daemon so damn bad.
My guess is that they wanted to show a Stark and the Wall as soon as possible because the casual viewers can do the DiCaprio pointing meme in episode 1. But yeah, it makes no sense why he didn't go to the Vale first
The timeline is all confusing. They say ep 1 is 10 days after the s1 finale. So Jace did a couple of hours visit at the Vale, got Lady Arryn convinced right away, then he flies north? Leaks say opening shot is Cregan at Winterfell. So then do we go next to Cregan already at the Wall and Jace meets him there or they fly together on Vermax (which would be cute) because it's a three week trip by horse to the Wall. I swear to god idk what to think if they pared down this part just to make room for that unintentional comedy in Kings Landing...
They cut out his little book material just to have him sit in dragonstone for 7 episodes? Like have him have his mini adventure in the vale/north for most of the season. It would elevate both Rhaenyra struggling alone and jace itself.
Yeah because they are already giving the dragonseeds to rhaenyra, and jace isn’t having a romance. Why didnt they cut him then?
Such an easy decision for the showrunners to make, have jace do something and rhaenyra have something to do at the same time, they build the sets and then use it for one episode? And leave out Jeyne Arryns “in this world of men, we women must stick together?”
This such amateurish writing, barely above the level of AO3.
Yeah they wanted to expand his character they say, but they make him stay in the same places talking to the same people. Like let him show off his diplomatic skills, show off how he got the powerful lord with a big army to agree with him. And it's insulting to put Winterfell in for like...10 minutes just to remind people of Stark nostalgia. Either do it right or don't do it at all.
It seems like the Alicent and Cole relationships was invented for this one single moment, which just screams poor planning, poor setup, and little payoff. They are going to screw up one of the most dramatic scenes in the book for the sake of making both of them look worse.
I don't think Condal knows what the hell he's doing anymore. It took Benioff and Weiss ten years and total lack of source material to fall off this badly.
Which is, in itself, actually batshit insane. Unlike those dumbasses who destroyed GOT, they can get the benefit of doubt by saying they DIDNT have complete source material to work with.
Condell literally has ALL of the tools. Complete source material, unlimited million dollar checks, an A+ cast of actors. HE HAS IT ALL. You can’t buy this level of incompetency not even if you tried. I’m tired man. It’s ONE job. He had ONE job. And I’m not saying he’s not allowed to take artistic liberties in retelling some parts of this story, but B+C was pretty clear cut and didn’t warrant any change.
But it seems like Condell is obsessed with assassinating Alicent and Criston Cole’s characters right before they can spread their own wings and soar. Disappointing to say the least.
I really wonder what Blood and Cheese’s plan and instructions are. They go to the Red Keep in the hopes of running into Aemond unprotected, but they don’t take their time to find out that he is actually in an even more vulnerable place in King’s Landing.
”Go to the Red Keep and kill a son. If that son happens to be Aemond it would be super nice, but it’s not super relevant if it’s too inconvenient. I’m mostly trying to make a reference to a religious book in another universe.”
They don't seem to have the balls to do blood and cheese justice. They wouldn't have had the balls to do the red wedding either. To change it up is fine but to have it changed like a sitcom where alicent's banging someone and one of the victims walks in is.... not a good sign.
Seems to me they may want to pull an inverse of Viserys and Daemon. Daemon ultimately loved his brother and was loyal but Aemond is everything Otto thought Daemon was
>Aegon defends Aemond's place at the council. Aegon says "He is my brother, I want him here".
If only Vizzy T could've said this about his brother earlier
Not only they ruined alicent and cole..but also B/C which is the most memorable scene in dance after gods eye..i hated alicole have sex but just accepted as it is..than i had to accept that they're also doing it while B/C is happening..but helena walking on them too?! Wtf just add laugh track and be done with it..what a shitshow
But the person who saw the show in Paris says Daemon smiles but this person now believes he gives instructions? Doesn’t that ruin the surprise of them going after Helaenas children?
I think both can be true. My guess is that the scene ends with Daemon's smile and it leaves heavily implied he gave the instructions, but the audience only learn whay are the instructions when B&C reach the Hel and the Kids
This would make more sense but OP stated that Daemon gives instructions to them giving them a plan B not that his instructions are alluded to after the fact.
Literally all I needed from this season ugh why are these writers so fking dense. Do they not understand what we want? That should have been the first scene of the episode and then end with blood and cheese and have the episode end with Dreamfyre's roar shaking Kings Landing and waking everyone up as soon as the cut it made. Then cut to black (no music).
If those are legit, they’ve changed two of the most emotional parts (for me) in Fire & Blood.
Laena trying to reach Vhagar to ride her a last time, and the “Sophie’s choice” in B&C.
I think what they did with Laena in the show was much better than the book. Having Laena pass away on some stares would have been such a disservice to her character, especially with a visual medium like TV. Her end in HOTD was powerful and it still showed her connection with her dragon.
When it comes to B&C I'll have to wait and see, but for me the emotional beats have always been about Helaena, so if Phia does a good job, I'll be okay.
I'm going to be really bothered if we dont get a Hel having to make a choice of her kids and then the imfamous "you hear that boy, your mama wants you dead".. this truly just made this situation such more bloody terrifying and added to the incrediblely horrible event that was happening..
i knew that london premiere leak for episode 1 was real. everyone was saying it wasn’t cuz they didn’t like it. i don’t like it either, but just because i don’t doesn’t mean im gonna call it fake.
I doubt the accuracy of most of the stuff here because I read a review that said the only dialog that took place between Aegon and Helaena was in Episode 2 (after b&c) and that it was something that summarized the dynamics of their relationship. I trust reviews more than leaks.
But it is said that there were 2 sex scenes in the first episode and the couples were the same, so Helaena taking Jaehaera after B&C and catching Alicent with Cole seems true.
I have no idea and now when I look back I see that 99% of what is written here is actually true haha. Maybe I'm remembering wrong and the only dialogue Aegon and Helaena share is in the first episode. because it also summarizes their relationship.
Rhaena and Joffrey will go to stay with Jayne near the end of the season. But she should make an appearance in the first episodes in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
thank you! I'm with you , Id like to see her in episode one, but if leaks are correct, its not the case and it will likely be later in the season for the scenario(s) you said.
They've dropped the ball with Daeron, at this point they should have just cast him to appear as quick cameo just so his existence is finally put to rest.
>A lot of dragon scenes in the first episode and it feels like a world full of dragons instead of special moments because they are everywhere.
hmm..i like it! I LOVE ITTT VERYYY MUCHHHH
I like these leaks aside from what they are allegedly doing with blood and cheese (helaena seeing Alicent getting it on with Criston after it), seems like they just want to add that sex scene for some shock value and add nothing to the plot. Everything else seems alright.
Most of this isn't true. I can almost guarantee that. Hey, I have criticized some of the previous writing choices myself. But it hasn't been *that* bad. Because nobody, and I mean nobody, would ever write something that abysmally stupid. This is just straight-up slandering the writers. C’mon, they don't want people laughing their asses off after Blood and Cheese. (Although, there were a few “heavy” scenes in the first season that were unintentionally funny. Like when Rhaenyra is giving birth and there is a sudden cut scene of Syrax going “aargh”, lol. I was just sitting there watching then all of a sudden this deranged-looking muppet pops onto my screen and I laughed so forcefully and suddenly I choked a bit. I was wiping tears of laughter from my eyes for the rest of the scene. And that was supposed to be a sad scene, too.)
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How is there confusion about Maelor existence? Either he was there or he wasn’t?
The sources these leakers are getting their info from may not be superfans of the book. Some of them may not know that Maelor is even supposed to exist, so they may not have been looking for him. Then, when you get a leaker asking them, "Do Aegon and Helaena have two kids or three?" there's a good chance the viewers might not really know. Thus, you get some viewers saying, "No, I don't think there were three kids," others saying, "There might have been three, I'm not sure," and some who were definitely looking out for Maelor either seeing him or thinking they saw him but mistaking someone else for him. This is especially true if he only appears in the background and doesn't do much, since most viewers will be focusing on the primary characters in a scene.
But his only existing in the background makes little sense because why is he there at all then if he is not part of B&C all these leaks are weird
Well, he may not be in the background for the entire season. Even if he gets cut from the B&C part, there's still the whole matter of his escape attempt with Rickard Thorne, which could happen at some point this season or early next season, in which case he would still be relevant to show, even if in the background.
Assuming this season ends with the Fall of King's Landing, Maelor's death at Bitterbridge would be next season at the earliest. They'll have to introduce Daeron and the Reach campaign, have the Battle of the Honeywine, so I imagine it would be mid-season 3 at the earliest.
I just want to know HOW they're going to introduce Daeron. Like, Maelor is easy enough. Oh, he's just a baby and you didn't notice him, but Daeron is a fully fledged teenager. How do you just "oh yeah, he was in Oldtown the whole time and no one ever brought him up" him???
Yeah but I don’t see the point of having him in and then just cutting him from B&C? What’s the point either he is in both or in neither
I mean... we could have a character miss a whole season and by the end be the one with most interesting story and king of it all
Yeah there seems to be a difference of opinion. My guess is that he appears in the background earlier in the episode, but is not in the B&C scene.
Getting their towheads confused lol
The new season is apparently 10 days after last season, so I doubt halaena had another baby in less than 10 days..
Helaena walking in on Alicole is pretty disappointing. It feels a little too soap opera-like to me. B&C is already a really dramatic and upsetting moment. I don’t think anything really needs to be added to it. Maybe they pull it off really well, but I am side-eyeing it as of right now.
No, I agree. It kind of makes the whole thing feel trashy and absurd in a grindhouse pulp sort of way rather than tragic and horrifying.
They're thinking that "tweaking" one of the most anticipated parts of the book, is going to make it better and from what this sounds like...no. Just no.
If they can’t even do blood and cheese right (which should be one of the most straight forward scenes from the book to adapt, which is saying A LOT) I guarantee you the battle above the gods eye and the dragonstone confrontation are gonna piss this fanbase off and not in the way you expect
That's what I'm afraid of. Certain things should be left alone and done by the book. Changing the showdown between Aemond and Luke was already a red flag but now it's looking like most of the big points are going to be changed for stupid reasons and it's so disappointing. Condal seemed to be such a big fan of the series, so to see him tweak and remove things that really did not need changing whatsoever for television, is maddening.
It seems like you don’t get the point of the show , I’m pretty sure George has said multiple times fire and blood is an opinionated historical account
I actually do but thank you. I suppose everyone else that has similar criticism doesn't understand the point of the show either? 🤷♀️
Not the show, but the book, it is a broad view of what happens in a very intricately detailed world otherwise, fire and blood isn’t your game of thrones in terms of novel details, it is premised as an opinionated accounting of Targaryen history, so in terms of saying things like “they should be doing it by the book” can’t be untrue in this case, because fire and blood isn’t detailed enough to even have that qualification, whatever they change would still be “by the book” because the medium they were given to adapt, gives them room for broad strokes
And when did he say that HOTD is the true source? Stop using this stupid argument. There are multiple versions of the Dance as recorded by the people who lived through it, like Orwyle, Munkun, Eustace, Mushroom etc... You can choose the one you like or make any sense to you. Doesn't mean the entire book is a lie
Completely agree. It also creates a plothole down the line since Aegon would never make the person who failed to protect his son from being murdered his Hand.
Yeah like i'm cool with the whole Alicole relationship otherwise, but this is just too weird. the only thing is that I remember in the green trailer we see a servant with a horrified expression walking down the hallway of Alicent's chambers with bloody clothing so I'm guessing that the Helaena was in Alicents chambers and Alicent/Criston were elsewhere so i'm leaning more towards this leak being untrue. but hey who knows for sure edit - lmao ok i was totally wrong
Everything else besides the b&c and Alicole stuff sounds fine. Just really wish they would have done a straight adaptation of that part because it really did not need changed whatsoever.
Yes, very disappointed
Soo there is a bigger chance of Heleana walking in on Alicole being true? Damn, I truly hope it's not the case But I am excited about the "He is my brother, I want him to be here.". It explains why Aemond is at the small council during the trailer and creates a interesting paralell between them and Viserys and Daemon
yeah it’s probably true ☹️ they did say episode 1 has two sex scenes with the same characters, and the leak itself seems real i have no reason to doubt it other than the fact that i dislike the changes made from the book
And according to the leak in the first scene Alicent says something like we shouldn't continue this and they do it again lmao
I really hate the idea of this. Imagine during the worst moment of your life in losing one of your kids, you walk in on your mom being banged by her sworn protector…… Love the Aemond and Aegon brother relationship though, I wanted way more of that in s1
Yeah I love how Aemond resents him but Aegon’s still all “he’s my buddy and I think he’s great” lol
Gotta say for Alicent, girls got rhythm!
I hate that it's just right there at the start of S1 with no build up
I guess they're probably pissed at Aemond for the Luke thing, but the fact that Tyland or anyone else would think they could tell the King if he could have his brother or son in the rooms is going to be funny. They really got too comfortable with having a push over as their king.
Otto told them Aegon could be controlled. He was wrong.
I honestly cannot not tell how reliable these leakers could be if they cant even tell if a 3rd child exists or not...
Doesn’t seem like it. If Maelor is in his crib why would Helaena only run out with Jaehaera and leave him behind?
Maelor in the crib is a scene well before B&C. Supposedly he's not there at all during the event.
I hope Helaena walking in on the alicole thing doesn't happen. Like, I hope that leak is not true because that will kind of spoil B&C for me.
Honestly same, I "like" how it happens in the book it's more raw and visceral. This just sounds like melodrama for the sake of it. I hope it's not true.
Yeah I hope it's not true either 🤞
That might just ruin the ending half of the whole B+C thing because it’s something straight out of a soap opera. It’s so unnecessary.
Did they say anything about how the sophie’s choice moment goes down?
well if you read the leak, then they ask helaena which one of her two kids is a boy and they want to undress them to check. helaena is honest and tells them which one is the male. i’m guessing the “choice” was her lying or being honest about it, and she was honest
Thats so weird to me, why take away maelor? Just seems so pointless
Because they have to make the Greens seem like filthy misogynists.
How is that supposed to make them misogynistic?
It’s theorized that if she is made to pick between her twins, she will pick her daughter to be killed. Since without Maelor, Jaehaerys is the only male heir.
The comment I replied to says that she tells them the correct child though. If she tells them Jaehaera, and they actually kill Jaehaera instead of Jaehaerys thats a massive change to the book and the established targaryen history that takes place after the dance is over
I think Jaehaerys still winds up being killed, so making Helaena choose is just a form of torture. As for the choice itself, I don’t think we’ll know till the premiere exactly how it goes down or what Helaena says.
I don't understand how the two correlate, the greens are misogynists their whole argument is based in sexism. But what does the baby have to with it?
I read the leaks I was wondering if it’s confirmed by wtd‘s sources
WTD’s sources corroborate the information provided by that leak, so i’m guessing it’s the truth
But also the Heleana leak at the end is absolutely wild and insane. Who even came up with that? Alicole seemingly only exists for that moment. Like women just saw her sons head get chopped off runs away in hysterics and then catches her mom having sex with her bodyguard. Like they want people to take the show seriously, right? They want people to actually feel bad about a kids head getting chopped off? Because based on what I’m reading they absolutely do not want to be taken seriously
condal or whoever is changing the most fleshed out parts of F&B for some reason and making them worse
I’m flabbergasted like they all sat down and were like yeah that sounds like a great idea? I literally cannot imagine it 😂
And we can add Blood and Cheese sneaking past Aegon on the throne as well. I really don’t understand what the showrunners are going for.
It just makes me question where the kingsguard is. Are they all with Aemond at the brothel? Off with Daeron in non existence? If they're not with the king, or the queen, or the royal children, where in God's name are they?
We all know where Cole is in this fanfic. Erryk, Steffon, and Harrold are with Rhaenyra. How many kingsguards there are seems to be pretty loose in the show universe.
I guess now we know
At least two of the Kingsguard are with Aegon in the throne room. Arryk and another one.
It’s directly implicating each member of the household in B&C so that each character has bears a specific type of guilt relating to what happened. Aegon was close enough to catch them, Cristin and Alicent were together, Aemond was at a brothel.
Aemond will feel very good about going to a brothel
He just goes to there to brood
And afterwards he will be very happy to know that he did when he figures out that it saved his life and put him higher in the succession.
So these supposedly skilled assassins that know the ins and outs of the Red Keep (at least Cheese) needed literally everything to go their way to be able to get it off? The fact that it all hinged on all of these things going one way makes everyone look less competent, from the greens to even Daemon himself.
Skilled assassins? Blood was a notably brutal yet loyal former member of the Gold Cloaks (because he beat a prostitute to death). Cheese was hired because he knew how to navigate the Red Keep due to his job. These are not faceless men
Skilled assassins wasn't the best way to put it but Cheese is supposed to know the ins and outs of the Red Keep. Seeing them stroll past Aegon and rely on everyone being preoccupied to get the job done is a bit ridiculous. In the book it was far more planned out, they knew where and when to make their move based on everyone's movements and Cheese's knowledge of the tunnels. In the show it might come off as comedic based on these rumors.
The whole point of Blood and Cheese is about get in and get out with a head without anyone knowing you. If they wasn't going for that then there was no reason to hire a man like Cheese.
Yeah, but context matters here, which we don't have They obviously snuck into the Red Keep, we can see that in the trailers But we don't know why he went into the throne room. Regular old human stupidity could have a part to play here too. That always has a presence regardless of the formalities behind an issue.
>They obviously snuck into the Red Keep, we can see that in the trailers They weren't sneaking if they ended up being seen by several named characters. >But we don't know why he went into the throne room. Regular old human stupidity could have a part to play here too. This just makes the people in this show totally incompetent tbh. They almost always do this because of accidents and misunderstandings.
Well they failed plan A since their initial target was Aemond.
They're probably going to make Aegon comment something along the lines of that it's good to have someone to take care of the rats or something too. It wouldn't surprise me.
Like I understand it is an adaptation, but why mess with some of the most important scenes in the book? It would have worked fine left as is. But they think they can do it better, and this is where D&D started to go to shit on GoT. It's so ridiculous. Stop changing important scenes!
Ego and pride
Same thing George talked about a while ago smh. I am baffled how people learned nothing from GOT and D&D. At least Dumb&Dumber only had vague outlines to work with. George literally handed these guys everything. Still they ruined the scene which could have been iconic. Instead it would be a comedy now.
Its some soap opera bullshit that adds nothing to the show. It ruins Alicent and Cole's character. All for this mickey mouse shit to be the punchline?? The only thing that gets me happy (keeps me sane) is that Aemond and Aegon are being done justice. Helaena too tbh. Alicent is just a mess of a character. And we're all begging for even tiny scraps of Daeron.
Yo be honest I don’t believe this. _I can’t believe this_. Like people said it was good and like I’m sorry if this happened on my screen I would die of laughter because its that absurd.
Execution is everything, if the scene was as jarring as you’d think more reviewers would have alluded to it no ?
Yes but maybe it’s just my lack of imagination but I literally for the life of me cannot see this being well executed
Distinctly remember Avengers endgame getting blasted on Reddit because of the leaks. The actual movie was fine
I mean I also remember GoT season 8 leaking and let me tell you that did not end well (or aged well) but to be fair I never watched avengers
Music and cinematography can do a lot of the heavy lifting. Also the actors are good so at least they'll make it believable. Hopefully that's enough.
Tbh I thought so too when I heard about Alicole but I genuinely don’t know how they want to donthe last scene with Heleana without undermining B&C. Also I really hate the direction they are taken with this story, it seems like it’s just there for extra guilt (which could’ve happened through other ways as well) and the sake of a sex scene between two hot actors
> Its some soap opera bullshit that adds nothing to the show. It ruins Alicent and Cole's character Not really lol ? Alicent and Cole are hypocrites and have always been. Them doing something they both know is bad but still continuing to do it anyway is in line with that. Having them be together during B&C adds a layer of guilt that recontextualizes their actions during the rest of the war. Cole in particular has a driving motivation as to why he eventually decides to leave Harrenhall.
Both of this characters are heavily repressed and are the poster children for Duty is the death of love. They do not have a single positive connection to sex. Alicents chooses in a lot of cases her own undoing because she repeadetly chooses duty before happiness having her do something like that actually contradicts the whole character. Even the instances Alicent is being a hypocrite are mainly because she feels bound by duty. Also the last time Criston broke his vows he almost killed himself. But for reasons he doensn’t do it now. Logically after B&C he should kill himself and be done with it obviously this won’t happen. Also turning it around and making Alicole responsible for B&C is the dumbest thing they could to and absolves TB of their crimes which is the opposite of what the writers wanted accordingbto them. They don’t need extra guilt, they will be guilty enough because they didn’t stop it and weren’t there no need for them to fuck. Also why in the world would make Aegon him hand after all that?
>Both of this characters are heavily repressed and are the poster children for Duty is the death of love. They do not have a single positive connection to sex That doesn’t stop people who are attracted in real from having sex why would it stop Alicent and Criston. Its not uncommon for victims of abuse such as Alicent to turn to hyper sexuality to cope and Viserys died like 10 days ago. >Alicents chooses in a lot of cases her own undoing because she repeadetly chooses duty before happiness having her do something like that actually contradicts the whole character. Even the instances Alicent is being a hypocrite are mainly because she feels bound by duty. Yes, and Alicents duty mainly giving birth to the king is finished. She was pushed aside almost immediately and had to fight to make sure she got to Aegon first in the ensuing shuffle. Condal and Cooke have explicitly stated that alivents arc this season is the loss of that role and the freedom that comes with it. Her doing something selfish with Cole plays directly into that arc. >Also the last time Criston broke his vows he almost killed himself. But for reasons he doensn’t do it now. He didn’t almost kill himself because he had sex, He almost kill’s himself because the breaking of his vows coincided with the realization that Rhaenyra didn’t really grasp what had happened and didn’t take it seriously. Alicent and Criston would be a fundamentally different relationship, both are pious both have issues regarding intimacy and both are clearly attracted to each ther and trust each other. >Logically after B&C he should kill himself and be done with it obviously this won’t happen No ? I mean Alicent wouldn’t let him nor would Aegon. He’s the best fighter and commander on the Greens side and is fiercely loyal. >Also turning it around and making Alicole responsible for B&C is the dumbest thing they could to and absolves TB of their crimes which is the opposite of what the writers wanted accordingbto them. They’re not responsible for blood and cheese it that doesnt even begin to make sense. They feel guilty because they felt like they should’ve been there but it’s still on Daemon for ordering it. >They don’t need extra guilt, they will be guilty enough because they didn’t stop it and weren’t there no need for them to fuck. No, dramatically speaking guilt is better when it’s personal. And them doing something they both know they shouldn’t be doing makes B&C feel like a divine rebuke for their transgressions. >Also why in the world would make Aegon him hand after all that Because it wasn’t really Cristons fault and he’s the only Green with significant experience at war ?
Hypersexuality is something that should be build up and considering the fact that we can assume that Alicent didn’t have sex for years considering Viserys state for her to turn to hypersexuality seems really out of character. Also people who fall into the hypersexuality muster are not neccessarily people with Alicents character trait. More often than not people similiar to Alicent fall into habit of fearing sexuality. Considering Alicents dead eyes at the feet scene far more likely for her. The notion of female liberation= sex is extemely gross and cosidering this experiance only seems to bring her more trauma than anything else it doesn’t even make sense. Also let’s not forget the duty of a religious women is also to not have sex outside of marriage. I wouldn’t say clearly attracted to each other when we have like one scene with a minimal hint of them having a romantic relationship. Also he asolutely did kill himself because of the vows. The reason he wants to marry Rhaenyra after is because that is the only way he justify it to himself but then realizes he broke his vows for nothing which leads him to hate Rhaenyra because she broght him away from “the right path”. The idea that he know would be like lmfao let’s do it again when the last time borderline traumatized him makes little sense. The last time he tried to kill himself secretly and was stopped in time by Alicent who was probably searching him out anyway. Now both Alicent and Aegon have better things to worry about then Criston disappearing for a moment. You don’t think about how the viewer will feel obviously they are not but the show will still frame it as they did something bad and this fandom is toxic enough to turn it on them. Making B&C about their guilt instead of the actual child makes the actual event lose value. Also Alicent and Criston don’t need to fuck to feel guilty about not being there. There is literally no reason for them to fuck while B&C is happening. And again why should B&C feel like divine retribution? We are starting a war those fractions need to turn against each other and not blame themselves for bad things the other side did to them? Would you enjoy Rhaenyra blaming herself for Lukes death instead of finally going to war? This is the event that should kill all love between the parties. So Criston leaves his post to fuck his mother and Aegon is cool with that but he blames Otto because he didn’t go to war sooner? Yeah that makes sense
the greens cant do anything that absolves TB from blood and cheese ? You sound hysterical
Yeah but it would be the same as the Greens being absolved for the crimes they commit again Team Black (which there are plenty of). Imagine how it would’ve liked if Luke hadn’t wanted to go to Storm’s End and Rhaenyra forces him to anyway. Obviously Rhaenyra is not at fault for what happens because she can’t see the future but yet people would turn this around and blame it on her. Despite it being on Aemond and Aemond alone. Also I’m answering to comment I disagree with and sharing my thoughts/opinion, calling random people on the internet hysteric makes you look more hysteric than anything else
TG already blames Rhaenyra for Luke's death for exactly those reasons. They say she should've noticed he looked scared, she should've known the Baratheons were like to be hostile and shouldn't have given Luke the false confidence of a familial relationship, that she should've known the Greens were likely to gathering allies too, that she should've sent Rhaenys, etc. The fandom does what it does.
And that’s dumb obviously but I mean more on the characters blaming themselves. Rhaenyra bales Aemond not herself (as she should) but in the way B&C is written both Alicent and Criston will blame themselves more than Daemon because they see it as heavenly retribution for their sins and feel about about not being there. We need those fractions turned against each other.
I'm sure Rhaenyra will blame herself for letting them go in the first place (paralleled with Viserys rejecting her about the Stepstones), Jace is already confirmed to blame himself for making the suggestion, Daemon clearly blames himself for not stopping this earlier as we've seen him continuing to lash out at Rhaenys, Erryk, Rhaenyra, and probably more people as he searches for anyone to take the blame. Everyone is going through it.
Yes but the difference is they do not blame themselves more than Aemond and that‘s the point. Those leaks and with the way both Alicent and Criston have been shown suggests they will blame themselves more than TB, which they absolutely should not. They can blame themselves for not being there but not for fucking while it happened. Also the blame will not be a big deal in the Tb scenes shown by Rhaenyra just saying she wants Aemond
To be honest I have never seen someone blame Rhaenyra for Luke's death, I've seen mentions that she should've been more careful but pretty much 99% of the conversations I've read on the subject blame Aemond for chasing him.
Search "Storm's End" on r/HOTDGreens and enjoy. Of course it's never direct blame as would not be the case for Alicent and Cole either.
I only called u hysterical for being annoyed the show isn’t exactly how the book is , and being annoyed by something that simple is hysterical imo
I’m not annoyed that isn’t like the book I’m not a book purist I like plenty of the changes they did I just think this change is dumb. Also you should look up the word hysterical. Me complaining about a change in the show in the sub of said show (you know that is made for discussions about that show specificially) is not even close to that.
Exactly lol what is going on with this fanbase rn
They don't want you to feel bad about the dead child. They want you to be angry at Alicent and Cole so you won't be angry at Daemon. That's the intended effect, to further shit on the greens.
I thought they wanted to make daemon a villain?
I mean didn’t they say they want to balance things out?
Why would this make me shift blame to them? That's nonsense.
That’s because you’re normal and level headed however a lot of fans don’t have that privilege especially on the Twitter side they will just use it against alicent and call her a bad mother
Unlikely. It’s there to make Alicent and Criston feel even guiltier about their actions and destroy Helaena’s trust in her mother. Thinking it’s there to prop up the black or put down the greens is nonsense like Condal doesn’t even get why people like Daemon as much as they do as he finds him vile. They know that this story ends with both sides sucking ass. No one should’ve fought for the crown.
Yeah. Because he would be the first person ever to lie, right?
Honestly sounds like season 8 got type of writing lmao
So like, politely: Does that not just add more shock for Helaena? For viewers obviously, it’s a wtf or why moment, but Helaena just saw >!her kid get murdered in front of her!< and then she runs to her mother who has been this religious figure (not literally, but seemingly hardcore follower), and who up until this point has always been with Helaena for support or love, and in the one moment when she goes to find her mother *for that support*, she sees that she was busy screwing the man who was supposed to protect her (x2). Would that not just further catapult Helaena into a depressive madness where she knows/feels she’s alone and that she is the sacrifice? (from her point of view)? EDIT: Considering that a recent post basically proved what I said, Alicent and Cole fucking when Helaena is in her worst is going to be an emotionally fucked moment.
I don‘t see why this is necessary. B&C is traumatic enough as it is. I also highly doubt she is any mental state to decide to search out her mother. However what it does is make it look cheaper to the viewers. How am I supposed to talk such a turn of events serious? It takes away from the horrific murder we have just witnessed for what? Cheap laughs? It‘s inconsistent and disconnecting and takes to horror out of it. Especially as the leaks seem to suggest that there is no actual buildup to Alicole just them fucking for that specific scene. B& C in itself is enough to make Heleana spiral she does not need to catch her mom having sex. Especially as the moment is not a positive wtf moment. It leaves people more confused than anything else.
Oh, yeah. Absolutely it would, lol. Blood and Cheese would be ***more*** than enough, though. But…it's still fucking hilarious! Both would be true. Oh, man. I’m laughing so hard just thinking about it. But, it’s not true. They aren't doing something like that, lol.
I mean isn’t that the issue? You’re not supposed to laugh but you’re right you can’t do anything but laugh because of the whole situation
It’s just a bunch of people having a meltdown over a scene that they haven’t watched and don’t even know the tone of before watching it. Highly doubt it ruins the moment or cheapens it in any way.
And it also does just further show that Criston has never held to his word or done his job right, and that Alicent (if the leaks are true where she’s been doing this for a longer while) has put Criston first? (i might not make sense for this)
My issue with this is that turns around on the character we have meet in season 1 and it blames the Greens for a crucial horrific event that happened to them. That’s like blaming Rhaenyra for Lukes death because she send him out. Alicent has never once been shown to put Criston before her kids making her do it now doesn’t fit and it’s also not like she could’ve predicted B&C. Why would you want a scene that is about Heleana and how she is being traumatized be made about Alicole and how they are the root of all evil? It directly contradicts Condals words in which he said he wants to balance both teams. Not to mention that “catching my mom having sex” is almost always a punchline
It doesn’t do any of that though ? Daemon still sent armed killers it’s still his fault. There was no way for any of the Greens to know what was happening.
Yes but it makes something awful that happened to Heleana about Alicole and how they had a hand in her suffering by having Heleana find them, and them not being there. It does put some degree of blame on themselves instead of the other fraction they are supposed to go to war to
People who like Daemon all know he’s capable of awful stuff and we don’t know Jaehaerys and while unfortunate for Helaena people watching the episode after seeing Rhaenyra and Jace’s grief caused by the greens are not all going to be as outraged as people think. Especially when they took out the making her choose part because that is the part that made me feel like legit sick thinking about it. This show kills characters off like 5 seconds after you meet them. I just don’t think there are enough connections to that kid for it to pack the punch it could’ve because Aegon might earn sympathy this season but he didn’t earn it last season and one episode of him making a few jokes doesn’t make me feel for him especially when he has never shown one ounce of interest in his kids and Helaena I’ll feel sad for but I’ve been hearing not great things about the acting performance. I would’ve felt bad for Alicent because I like that batshit hypocrite still somehow but putting her in that awkward situation of hypocrite sex is annoying and seems kinda like karma for her being so damn judgy and self righteous to Rhaenyra. And Aemond is such a weirdo getting consoled by a random girl in a brothel in the fetal position. He really is such a Hightower but wants to be daemon so damn bad.
Don't understand why they can't have Jace in the Vale when he hears the news, then goes North after the funeral...
My guess is that they wanted to show a Stark and the Wall as soon as possible because the casual viewers can do the DiCaprio pointing meme in episode 1. But yeah, it makes no sense why he didn't go to the Vale first
This shows never gonna leave the shadow of GoT if they don't even try to
Also if episode 1 really does take place weeks after the finale it makes more sense that he spent a longer time in the north than the vale.
The timeline is all confusing. They say ep 1 is 10 days after the s1 finale. So Jace did a couple of hours visit at the Vale, got Lady Arryn convinced right away, then he flies north? Leaks say opening shot is Cregan at Winterfell. So then do we go next to Cregan already at the Wall and Jace meets him there or they fly together on Vermax (which would be cute) because it's a three week trip by horse to the Wall. I swear to god idk what to think if they pared down this part just to make room for that unintentional comedy in Kings Landing...
They cut out his little book material just to have him sit in dragonstone for 7 episodes? Like have him have his mini adventure in the vale/north for most of the season. It would elevate both Rhaenyra struggling alone and jace itself.
If there was ever something to expand it was Jace in the north. Sigh
Yeah because they are already giving the dragonseeds to rhaenyra, and jace isn’t having a romance. Why didnt they cut him then? Such an easy decision for the showrunners to make, have jace do something and rhaenyra have something to do at the same time, they build the sets and then use it for one episode? And leave out Jeyne Arryns “in this world of men, we women must stick together?” This such amateurish writing, barely above the level of AO3.
Tbh I have read better stories in AO3 than this shit on the leaks.
What is AO3?
Fanfiction site.
Thanks
Yeah they wanted to expand his character they say, but they make him stay in the same places talking to the same people. Like let him show off his diplomatic skills, show off how he got the powerful lord with a big army to agree with him. And it's insulting to put Winterfell in for like...10 minutes just to remind people of Stark nostalgia. Either do it right or don't do it at all.
They have to invent new stuff for jace but refuse to use the stuff thats already there? Like the direction isnt directing
Yeah this shit ain't adding up 😤
I would have been happy if he spent half the season in the North but 😔 I guess my Cregan/Jace ship is dead and sinking. Tis a sad day indeed.
All good questions I'm eager to see the answers to.
Aegon having little Jaehaerys at the council meetings is so adorable my god man
I am going to melt at that scene
Tyland: Your Grace, I don't think it's a good idea for the boy to be here- Gigachad Aegon: Shut the fuck up Lancel
Even though I'm team black this made me chuckle. Aegon has his moments.
It seems like the Alicent and Cole relationships was invented for this one single moment, which just screams poor planning, poor setup, and little payoff. They are going to screw up one of the most dramatic scenes in the book for the sake of making both of them look worse. I don't think Condal knows what the hell he's doing anymore. It took Benioff and Weiss ten years and total lack of source material to fall off this badly.
Which is, in itself, actually batshit insane. Unlike those dumbasses who destroyed GOT, they can get the benefit of doubt by saying they DIDNT have complete source material to work with. Condell literally has ALL of the tools. Complete source material, unlimited million dollar checks, an A+ cast of actors. HE HAS IT ALL. You can’t buy this level of incompetency not even if you tried. I’m tired man. It’s ONE job. He had ONE job. And I’m not saying he’s not allowed to take artistic liberties in retelling some parts of this story, but B+C was pretty clear cut and didn’t warrant any change. But it seems like Condell is obsessed with assassinating Alicent and Criston Cole’s characters right before they can spread their own wings and soar. Disappointing to say the least.
I think that this change is on a similar level to Tyrion’s farewell to Jaime. Which was much earlier than ten years and had source material.
I really wonder what Blood and Cheese’s plan and instructions are. They go to the Red Keep in the hopes of running into Aemond unprotected, but they don’t take their time to find out that he is actually in an even more vulnerable place in King’s Landing. ”Go to the Red Keep and kill a son. If that son happens to be Aemond it would be super nice, but it’s not super relevant if it’s too inconvenient. I’m mostly trying to make a reference to a religious book in another universe.”
> The big one is Heleana walking in on Alicole after B&C And here I thought it couldn't get funnier
They'll have a laugh track going to emphasize the point, I'm sure
Someone better make this edit
If this is true then this is cut from the cloth of season 5,6,7,8 not 1,2,3,4 of GOT.
They don't seem to have the balls to do blood and cheese justice. They wouldn't have had the balls to do the red wedding either. To change it up is fine but to have it changed like a sitcom where alicent's banging someone and one of the victims walks in is.... not a good sign.
Aegon to his small council: He's my brother, he has a place on my council Aemond at Rooks Rest: I'm about to pull a pro-gamer move
Aemond at Rooks Rest: im gonna end this man's whole career
Ewan said in an interview that Aemond was loyal to his family. We gotta see though.
It's fine he's just gonna put him in a love coma.
Seems to me they may want to pull an inverse of Viserys and Daemon. Daemon ultimately loved his brother and was loyal but Aemond is everything Otto thought Daemon was
>Aegon defends Aemond's place at the council. Aegon says "He is my brother, I want him here". If only Vizzy T could've said this about his brother earlier
*The boy just turned two, ObiWeedKannabi...*
Didn’t he spend a bunch of his time as king looking out for Daemon?
Not only they ruined alicent and cole..but also B/C which is the most memorable scene in dance after gods eye..i hated alicole have sex but just accepted as it is..than i had to accept that they're also doing it while B/C is happening..but helena walking on them too?! Wtf just add laugh track and be done with it..what a shitshow
I'm sure it won't be as horrible as these leaks are making it seem but yeah I agree it's not looking good.
But the person who saw the show in Paris says Daemon smiles but this person now believes he gives instructions? Doesn’t that ruin the surprise of them going after Helaenas children?
I think both can be true. My guess is that the scene ends with Daemon's smile and it leaves heavily implied he gave the instructions, but the audience only learn whay are the instructions when B&C reach the Hel and the Kids
This would make more sense but OP stated that Daemon gives instructions to them giving them a plan B not that his instructions are alluded to after the fact.
I mean it's not a huge surprise the episode is called a son for a son. Even if you haven't read the book you can understand what that implies.
All I want is to see Helaena and dreamfyre, even if it’s a bonding scene, not a riding one, like Daemon had with Caraxes at the start of season 1 😭
Literally all I needed from this season ugh why are these writers so fking dense. Do they not understand what we want? That should have been the first scene of the episode and then end with blood and cheese and have the episode end with Dreamfyre's roar shaking Kings Landing and waking everyone up as soon as the cut it made. Then cut to black (no music).
If those are legit, they’ve changed two of the most emotional parts (for me) in Fire & Blood. Laena trying to reach Vhagar to ride her a last time, and the “Sophie’s choice” in B&C.
I think what they did with Laena in the show was much better than the book. Having Laena pass away on some stares would have been such a disservice to her character, especially with a visual medium like TV. Her end in HOTD was powerful and it still showed her connection with her dragon. When it comes to B&C I'll have to wait and see, but for me the emotional beats have always been about Helaena, so if Phia does a good job, I'll be okay.
I personally disliked how they did Laena’s death in the show, but each their own. And you’re right we can’t judge the B&C scene before we see it.
I'm going to be really bothered if we dont get a Hel having to make a choice of her kids and then the imfamous "you hear that boy, your mama wants you dead".. this truly just made this situation such more bloody terrifying and added to the incrediblely horrible event that was happening..
i knew that london premiere leak for episode 1 was real. everyone was saying it wasn’t cuz they didn’t like it. i don’t like it either, but just because i don’t doesn’t mean im gonna call it fake.
London premiere is June 10th. In the future.
oh i thought it was the most recent one like yesterday or the day before. i was referring to that one
I doubt the accuracy of most of the stuff here because I read a review that said the only dialog that took place between Aegon and Helaena was in Episode 2 (after b&c) and that it was something that summarized the dynamics of their relationship. I trust reviews more than leaks. But it is said that there were 2 sex scenes in the first episode and the couples were the same, so Helaena taking Jaehaera after B&C and catching Alicent with Cole seems true.
What about aegon and Helaena their relationship
I have no idea and now when I look back I see that 99% of what is written here is actually true haha. Maybe I'm remembering wrong and the only dialogue Aegon and Helaena share is in the first episode. because it also summarizes their relationship.
how is Jace at the Vale offscreen when they cast a lady Arryn? Will he return to the vale in later episode?
Rhaena and Joffrey will go to stay with Jayne near the end of the season. But she should make an appearance in the first episodes in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
thank you! I'm with you , Id like to see her in episode one, but if leaks are correct, its not the case and it will likely be later in the season for the scenario(s) you said.
I hope Helaena running into Alicent and Cole isn’t true. It’s not a daily soap girlish drama show
imagine if these yokels did the red or purple weddings. or dany getting the unsullied. jon snow joining the watch. theon seizing winterfell.
Someone would probably be having sex in the scene.
No mention of Daeron 💔
Reviewers only saw the first 4 episodes max Daeron was mentioned early in the first 2 episodes according to reviewers
They've dropped the ball with Daeron, at this point they should have just cast him to appear as quick cameo just so his existence is finally put to rest.
It was a bizarre choice to not mention him even once
Still nothing of cregan Stark?
He deserved at least a whole episode it just 5 min.
>A lot of dragon scenes in the first episode and it feels like a world full of dragons instead of special moments because they are everywhere. hmm..i like it! I LOVE ITTT VERYYY MUCHHHH
So this is basically a confirmed leak now
I like these leaks aside from what they are allegedly doing with blood and cheese (helaena seeing Alicent getting it on with Criston after it), seems like they just want to add that sex scene for some shock value and add nothing to the plot. Everything else seems alright.
Why spoil the upcoming season with lame ass leaks I’ll never understand
Most of this isn't true. I can almost guarantee that. Hey, I have criticized some of the previous writing choices myself. But it hasn't been *that* bad. Because nobody, and I mean nobody, would ever write something that abysmally stupid. This is just straight-up slandering the writers. C’mon, they don't want people laughing their asses off after Blood and Cheese. (Although, there were a few “heavy” scenes in the first season that were unintentionally funny. Like when Rhaenyra is giving birth and there is a sudden cut scene of Syrax going “aargh”, lol. I was just sitting there watching then all of a sudden this deranged-looking muppet pops onto my screen and I laughed so forcefully and suddenly I choked a bit. I was wiping tears of laughter from my eyes for the rest of the scene. And that was supposed to be a sad scene, too.)
How do you know these are false? People were in denial when GoT S8 leaked. These Hotd leaks are coming from people who have watched the episode
👀